They're Just Despicable. Scaring Seniors into Thinking They'll be Euthanized is Worse Than Evil.
I'm so furious about this attempt to scare seniors, because it's so close to home: My mother just died Sunday.
We talked with my parents about all kinds of these issues in advance - but they also changed their mind about some things as they got closer to the end. My mother died peacefully in her sleep, exactly as she wanted.
My father, on the other hand, died of cancer in the hospital, talked out of the home hospice care he would have preferred by his "pro-life" activist physician. ("You don't want that, they're a little too free with the drugs." You know, because God forbid you die a few hours sooner.)
Two days before my father died, I literally had to push his doctor up against the wall and harangue him to get him to authorize the morphine he needed. And you know what this tin god did? He left an order for morphine pills "on request." (Dad could no longer swallow, and was in so much pain, he was in and out of consciousness.)
I found out the next morning and told the nurse to get him on the phone. The weenie had his associate call back instead, and he said he couldn't override the other doctor's instructions. "As long as I have you on the phone, I have another question," I said sweetly. "Dr. X also left instructions that my dad was to be resuscitated, and he told us he didn't want that. My mother says that's not her signature on the request, so it seems to me we have something of a legal problem here."
All of a sudden, he became quite helpful and offered to prescribe a morphine IV for my father.
Now, I'm a fighter, and I'm effective. But not everyone is, especially when a parent is dying. And some of those seniors have no family left to fight for them. So regular counseling about this would be a very, very good thing.
And the people who are using it to frighten seniors for their own political benefit (or a talk-radio paycheck) should rot in hell.
A campaign on conservative talk radio, fueled by President Obama's calls to control exorbitant medical bills, has sparked fear among senior citizens that the health-care bill moving through Congress will lead to end-of-life "rationing" and even "euthanasia."
The controversy stems from a proposal to pay physicians who counsel elderly or terminally ill patients about what medical interventions they would prefer near the end of life and how to prepare instructions such as living wills. Under the plan, Medicare would reimburse doctors for one session every five years to confer with a patient about his or her wishes and how to ensure those preferences are followed. The counseling sessions would be voluntary.
But on right-leaning radio programs, religious e-mail lists and Internet blogs, the proposal has been described as "guiding you in how to die," "an ORDER from the Government to end your life," promoting "death care" and, in the words of antiabortion leader Randall Terry, an attempt to "kill Granny."
Though the counseling provision is a tiny part of a behemoth bill, the skirmish over end-of-life care, like arguments about abortion coverage, has become a distraction and provided an opening for opponents of the president's broader health-care agenda. At a forum sponsored by the seniors group AARP that was intended to pitch comprehensive reform, Obama was asked about the "rumors." He used the question to promote living wills, noting that he and the first lady have them.
Democratic strategists privately acknowledged that they were hesitant to give extra attention to the issue by refuting the inaccuracies, but they worry that it will further agitate already-skeptical seniors.
Both of my parents died peacefully at home. They had long term home care provided by the family, mainly me.
Dealing with end of life issues is highly advisable. The Corporate Capitalist paradise that we are incessantly propagandized about tries to tell us that we are technologically beyond the previous concerns of humanity and our mortality.
As for five year consultation, it seems hardly enough, as time goes by the possibility of some dramatic change in the quality of life increases.
A means of improving the situation would be increasing the number and quality of elder care physicians and support staff.
The Capitalist Party Elites are in control of the Congress, they are not going about this with the sole idea of providing improved health care for the people.
statusquObama, change you can only pretend in
Lets face it. It has a lot to do with $$$$. A person on life support makes a hospital huge money. It depletes the person's bank account fast than Bernie Maddoff. The person who is strapped to a bed and unconscious 99 times out of a 100 does not want to be there. That person wants to be dead. The next of kin is on an emotional roller coaster and can't possibly think straight. Nobody is sure what to do so the only thing they think they should do is keep the machine on giving the suffering, dying, helpless, comatose person a few more days of agony and five years worth of money for the poor persons wife of husband sucked from their bank account. Somehow I think a little counseling a few years before this scenario would be a good thing. Anybody who would scare people away from this possibility of counseling should do much more than rot in hell but what I would suggest probably would not make it past the site monitors.
The ones that go out of their way to suck corpses dry. Of course we don't call them vampires we call them Repubobstructionists hell bent on ruining America for the working people.
This is so outrageous of Republicans to do and it makes anyone who hears about it angry. . . it is one of the best opportunities the Dems have gotten so far to catch the Republicans up in their own game and trip up their whole propaganda groove. . .
. . . which means, of course, that the Dems will blow it and let it slip away.
Rahm Emanuel's brother, Ezekiel Emanuel, is a right wing doctor and self-described "medical ethicist." He has been one of the most outspoken voices in opposing Death with Dignity legislation.
His specialty? Oncology.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
Those oncologists like to see how long they can keep people with life ending cancer alive. The definition, for them, of being alive is a beating heart. You have heard of new drug possibilities that can keep a person with certain types of cancer alive for three more months that cost $30,000 a month. Keep an eye out for these type of medications. If any of you see some son of a bitch doctor try to force my wife to give me this crap please set them straight.
It's Science!
This bill removes FDA's power of prior restraint over all nutrient-disease relationship claims. Under the bill, FDA may not prohibit any statement concerning a nutrient affecting a disease (including treatment effects) from being made in the market and may only act against a statement once made if it possesses clear and convincing evidence that the statement is false. Presently FDA blocks an enormous quantity of truthful information concerning the effects of nutrients and foods on disease from reaching consumers. That barrier is removed by the Health Freedom Act, but the Act preserves the power of the government to prosecute those who communicate falsehood. The essential purpose of the First Amendment is to disarm the federal government of the power to impose a prior restraint on speech. The FDA has imposed a prior restraint for decades to the health detriment of the public. Passage of the Health Freedom Act will restore constitutional governance by reasserting the supremacy of the First Amendment over the Food and Drug Administration.
Sat, 08/01/2009 - 12:52 — fiver
His specialty? Oncology.
______________________________________________
He sells mobile phone technology?
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
He sells mobile phones for doctors who are "on-col" ;)
Seriously, an oncology specialist who opposes Death with Dignity legislation? Unbelievable.
Thanks for the interesting info on Dr Emanuel, fiver.
Kaiser Permanente works pretty well- they don't want beds filled with dying people. Their maternity program is good too (or used to be) encouraging "no meds" and even midwives (there at the hospital). Why? It saves them money.
I used to gripe about the "assembly line" feel at Kaiser. Go in whit a problem and get 1 x-ray, urine sample, blood sample, other quick & easy tests. It was a bit mechanical, but quick and reasonably efficient.
Now I've been suffering for 8 years from a problem my personal doctor insisted was depression. I suspect Kaiser would have found out sooner that I had severe sleep apnea. And probably treated it faster, too. I still have to wait 10 days before I can go on CPAP. That's Blue Cross for you.
It's a really good idea. PLUS people should know they have to have their living will IN WRITING and practically taped to their bed if they are in the hopsital. If they are at home they need to have it somewhere near the refridgerator where emergency personel can find it. Once you go on life support they can't take you off. My mother in law pulled the tube herself. She didn't have her wishes in writing. Brave lady.
Capitalism and health care are a very very very bad mix. I wish Sicko would make the rounds again. More people would pay attention, I think.
the health of its citizens to appease the greed of its elites.
If the foo shitz...
The only people who should be denying elderly and terminally ill people proper care and letting them die should be the private insurers. That's how it is now and nothing should change it.
into solving real problems, instead of pitting each other against ourselves through invented wars. Isn't our true human natural heritage the capacity to solve problems? If we could remove `imperfiction' in our thinking, we might yet assume the health status of mythological immortals, sharing in a wide-spread exchange of civilization-promoting behaviors.
Seems to me, the best way to avoid rationing is to adapt a health system that would channel the highest percentage of health care dollars spent into actual care, as opposed to the current system laden with administrative overhead and corporate profits.
My husband died of lung cancer almost 2 years ago. He wanted nothing done to prolong his life. A month before he passed we called in Hopsice and they came to the house talked to us and set up what he would need. They were so helpful, gave me the medicine that he would need and also gave me instruction on how and when to give it. They gave me all the morphine that he would need and when it was about to be delpeated all I had to do was call them and they had more to me the next day. No need to go thru a doctor. They are the best people to call in when a loved one is beyond hope.
I cannot say enough good things about hospices. My grandmother was able to die at home in her own bed thanks to the assistance of a hospice. As my grandmother got within days of dying, she started to feel immense pain in her abdomen because her organs were shutting down. Thankfully, we had these morphine tablets we could give to her to ease the pain and suffering. Because we knew she was really close, we were able increase the dosage to make her comfortable.
This type of care would not have been possible in a hospital, and we estimated to have saved at least $10,000.
who work and provide hospice care are good, kind, caring and helpful beyond description. i still get a lump in my throat when i think of the care and love they extended ...
it's as close to 'death with dignity' as we'll see.
I'm moved and horrified by what you have written about your experience with doctors at the end of your fathers life. Thank you for sharing this example of being effective, that others may emulate you and spare their loved ones from unnecessary suffering. It shouldn't be so.
What infuriating and cowardly behavior from a person in position of trust, on the part of your father's doctor. To think people tend to defer to doctors as if they were some form of science-based clergy, instead of taking on responsibility to know what is going on, is upsetting.
The same concerns about doctors can be extended to those vile politicians, naturally.
You can take comfort in knowing you have made the path to a better experience clearer for some.
to start using soylent green as a documentary of what will happen should insurance be revamped
btw, if you dont have a living will...make one
seriously
This is going to backfire on these sons of bitches. Watch. Just watch. So much attention is going to be put on it that these seniors are going to be so angry that they will FORCE these blue dogs to vote for a good bill or they will be gone. What is AARP saying about this????
The GOP is banking on seniors essentially looking at reform and saying to themselves: "I got mine (medicare), fuck you!"
You're already dealing with a population that votes overwhelmingly Republican, so you're off on a good foot on that.
They want them to fear this, and buy into the Euthanasia tactic, and They want them calling their congressman, they want them going to their diners and spreading this crap, they want them forwarding their chainletters, they want them calling into talk shows, writing letters to the editor, all that stuff.
Isn't that really the source of America's main problem, "I've got mine, fuck you!". America would be a much better place if we all followed former president Jimmy Carter's example, who is following the example of Jesus. Jesus in his early years was a carpenter, and his self sacrifice gave us all the gift of Salvation. Jimmy Carter was a president, and now he is a carpenter building homes for the homeless. :)
best system of government that has ever been invented-- as flawed as it maybe be.
That being said, for a person like Virginia Foxx to state, on the House Floor, that the government will be putting seniors to death if reform is enacted-- to listen to that type of stuff and know that it's perfectly legal and that she can just walk away with no reprecussions at all... it's wrong. It's spitting in the face of every decent person that has ever been in a position of power within our government, and the Republican party is ENCOURAGING it. Pure unadulturated insanity.
the best system at one time but what now allows corporations write the laws is hardly the best system. I love my country but I now hate the system.
America has the best system of government ever invented?
ROTFL!!!!!!!!
no contrary examples, eh?
Classic.
Canada has everything you've got, and MORE (like universal healthcare), and we have way fewer brownshirts goose-stepping about. We have a Constitutional Monarchy and a sitting government can be dissolved at any time with a No Confidence vote, and we have 17 political parties to choose from.
Because of such diversity, we haven't had a majority government in some time, whcich makes it very difficult for any one party/group to cram an agenda down our throats. They must build working coalitions with other parties to enact legislation.
"If the US government enforced its banking laws like it did its park regulations, we wouldn't be
in this damn park in the first place." OCCUPY.!!
Universal healthcare and lack of right-wing doofuses, however, have nothing to do with the actual system of government. A constitutional monarchy doesn't guarantee either.
Sweden. Tell me no, I dare ya.
Generally speaking I don't trust anyone making over 150K a year.
American government was revolutionary at one time but since then others have followed and some even seem to be doing it. . . dare I say. . better.
America's problem in my mind is not the foundation, it is the house of crack that was slowly built on top of that foundation. I think our problems are much more related to the insane parliamentary rules that developed over the years and the gerrymandering at the local levels to keep incumbents in power long after they should be upgraded to newer models. Combine that with the cult like indoctrination into only two political parties that write the rules about how other parties compete with them. . . and you've got a mess.
I really wish there was some mechanism that allowed citizens to purge the entire government and start fresh every once in a while. Nobody working in Washington during that purge could hold office or work as a Washington staffer again. Let them all go work as lobbyists trying to influence all the new people who don't know or care who they are.
You can't change the culture of corruption when new arrivals are trained by old corrupt bastards so that they can take the reigns one day and mentor the new people when they are old. . . etc.
... (and found here) shows that the despicable liars aren't just limited to the obvious right wing nut cases. Typically, Ms. Connolly pulls one of those "report on the debate" scams never actually mentioning that the scare tactics are complete fabrications.
She also frames the issue as pro-wingnut as she can get away with. As quoted above:
Like dday said:
Despicable indeed.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
He died a month ago, in his own bed. He had several things wrong with him, one was bone cancer, and he was given pretty strong doses of morphine. Us kids (all in our 50's) took care of him, taking turns to stay a week or so. I was there the weekend before he died. He was in no pain, surrounded by family, able to watch the huge TV my brothers bought him (his eyesight was failing).
The nurses who came two or three times a week were wonderful, took care of things We Kids could not, bathed Dad, and also cheered him up a lot. He also had maid service thru Hospice, tho with one of us there it wasn't really needed. One thing he couldn't afford was a 24-hr nurse. We discussed hiring one (all pitching in) but Dad said he'd prefer to have his kids around.
This Hospice was Medicare-thru/with-Kaiser Permanente. Aside from the cost of 24 hour nurse, everything was reasonable. And I think the cost of round the clock care at home would have been less than if he'd been in the hospital.
Well, I'm rambling, but Susie, your Dad's doctor sounds like a real asshole. Nearly all the "Pro-life" people if met seem to be. Strange.
Can any intelligent American really fall for the right wing lies that Obama wants to put the elderly to death? Seriously?
Funny how some of the elderly who oppose the health plan refuse to accept that medicare is a a socialized form of health care.
I'm sorry, but if they are going to be this stupid and refuse affordable health care, then why don't we just pull the plug on Medicare. mabey that will wake them up...
Don't be shocked that Republicans would pander to fear and ignorance- THAT's WHAT THEY DO- on every issue.
Get in your little Astrovans across the country, pick up all your like-minded mouthbreathers, and drive out to hospices and assisted living facilities. Ask to see the sickest, closest to death, most pain-ridden patients, and go into their rooms and BEG them to choose to do everything they can to hold out that much longer. BEG them to try everything. BEG them to suffer, suffer, and suffer some more.
Ridicule them if they feel like it's the end, shame them into thinking that by realizing they're at the end of the line, they're giving up and quitters and nobody likes quitters. Then play Palin's resignation speech about Quitting, smile at them, kick them in the side of the head, and move on down to the next room.
First, my condolences.
Both of my parents did not take care of business before they passed away, leaving all decisions up to my inept older brother, who did not handle things the way both parents said, but did not put in writing, how they wanted things to go. My dad did not want to die in a hospital, nor did my mom, yet both did because they didn't have living wills.
Shame on the Repugs. I think solution number one is to completely remove the lavish congressional health care perks, and people like that moron Lars and Congresswoman Foxx can opt out of any government health bennies. God, they make me angry. I do hope it comes back to bite them on the ass hard.
Men are basically smart or dumb and lazy or ambitious. The dumb and ambitious ones are dangerous and I get rid of them. The dumb and lazy ones I give mundane duties. The smart ambitious ones I put on my staff. The smart and lazy ones I make my commanders.
Conservatives, and specifically very religious people, are afraid of death. I'm an atheist, and I'm kind of afraid too, but I'm not afraid of Hell. I'm sure religious people fret over whether they're going to hell or not.
Even if they think they're going to heaven, maybe they're a little afraid of that too - maybe there's going to be people there they didn't like while they were alive.
Even THINKING about preparing for death logically (with a will, and consulting with a doctor) scares them.
It's pitiful to see this direction taken by right wing radio.
That's what I never understood about religious nuts- they go on and on and on about wanting to be dead so they can be with their god- so why don't they just STFU and jump off a bridge? Of course when they get sick and old, they fear death- yet in their religious cults, they talk about how great it would be to be dead so they coul be with Jesus...i don't get it..
Part of the Republican hypocrisy.
unless you owe them money.
They discourage the life-saving efforts of scientists working to bring an end to it. If heaven was here on earth, who would need to believe in a hereafter?
Life extension is wrong "because it's cheating death."
you're just supposed to "accept it on faith" -- whatever the hell that means.
On the other hand, when it comes to prospects for extending normal healthy function to where death is virtually conquered, these "pro-life" folk get concerned. "Bio-conservatives" think that you and I owe them and society a timely exit. Existence, to their way of thinking, can be an antisocial act.
I'm pleased Obama dissolved the bioethics advisory committee. I don't need a president listening to voices on "both sides of the argument" of whether or not I may be permitted to exist beyond what is now a conventional life span.
. . . But it's a good thing you were there to fight for you Dad.
Sorry for your loss, Susie.
My Mom died at home, as she wanted, after a long illness 13 years ago. She had been bedridden for most of the previous year and was cared for by family and care attendants. The latter were provided by the provincial health plan, which subsidized most of the cost. Another aspect of Canadian care, which allows people to die with some measure of dignity and choice. Cheaper than a hospital, too.
Count on republicans to win at all costs. Nothing is off limits or too low. It's not about governing with those assholes. It's just about winning the game. It's beyond immoral and it makes me sick.
My mother has recently died of lung cancer. After the diagnosis the hospital fitted a stent to enable her to breath and arranged for her to be returned home. The local council delivered a hospital bed to the house and we had nursing care visits three times a day along with visits from a district nurse a home alarm for her and also visits from specialist oncology nurses. A keysafe was fitted to the house in case the emergency services needed to gain access to the house. She later suffered a chest infection which the doctor prescribed antibiotics for. Oh yes the doctor also visited her at home. She was also prescribed liquid foods as she could not eat solids. She did not require morphine but one time I visited our local pharmacy when they were taking a delivery and seen them unpack a half liter bottle of liquid morphine for someone elses prescription. After she died it was touching to recieve sympathy cards from the nurses and carers and the pharmacist. No complaints about the level of care here.
Here in the US, we hear that humane health-care situations like you experienced are not possible, that such things don't happen anywhere, that Britons and Canadians and Cubans and the French hate their health-care systems and come to the US for health care if they can afford to. We are also raised in a social environment infused with the attitude that dog-eat-dog competitive cruelty is the norm for humans and that to expect anything else is naive, hence our sadistic, profit-driven health care non-system. You are so lucky to live where you do and not in the US. Condolences on the loss of your mother.
I am so sorry to hear the news about your mother. My mother died a little over a year ago, of inoperable lung cancer. Medicare paid for all her care for the last weeks of her life while she was hospitalized. If that's what "socialized medicine" is all about, then I say we all should have it. Except for the right-wingers who are so adamant they don't want any government health plan--let them pay full price out of pocket forever more.
It's time for the Democrats to put out ads that say the Republicans want to end Medicare. Tell them that the Republicans think Medicare is socialized medicine. Tell them that the Republicans want to take away choices that the Medicare recipients have. Think about it.
He forced a vote on medicare and earned my undying appreciation for it.
Yeah, I know but we need some ads on TV. Put them on while O'Dipstick is running his mouth. After all most of his audience are old people who can't figure out how to change the channel because they are hooked up to life support.
Media Matters bought air time on Lou Dobbs' show to debunk the birthers and...Lou Dobbs. CNN can have integrity and run it or make a bigger story of Lou.
Republicans need to be cornered on their cowardly bullshit. Jon Stewart recently did a masterful job on Bill Kristol.
Rahm! I'm sending up the bat signal, baby!
if they were in the positions Dems are in today.
Fuck these scoundrels.
I don't get mad at puppets during a puppet show. I get mad at who is pulling the strings. It is the health insurance industry pulling the strings. It is for them, do anything to kill real healthcare reform. If real healthcare reform does not pass I will be convinced we living in an oligarchy and the government in Washington is only a show being put on before pulling out the rubber stamp.
i am very curious as to why i seldom see the name "terry schiavo" when this subject comes up...
i remember that one of the GOOD things to come from that drama was the lesson learned about the importance of having a 'living will'...
it's not just for seniors!
Amen to that.
I can see an ad with Terry Schiavo on the horizon right now. Yup. Maybe MoveOn could do it. "This is the way the Republicans want you to die. With no input. Poor Terry was brain dead for 10 years and they would not let her go see her god."
The video posted with this story has, among other things, Chris Matthews talking about Terry Schiavo to the author of the bill they are smearing.
My mother also died Sunday morning, in her sleep. :'-(
"Birthers" and "Deathers".
Lies, lies, and more lies from the wingnuts.
They sure don't let facts get in the way of their distorted opinions.
Condolences, Susie.
Please try to remember the efforts mom made, to see to it that you were happy. Do try your best, not to fall into the trap of self-pity, as the ramifications are self-destructive and factually unwarranted.
Keep doing what your doing, I'm grateful to your parents for raising such a caring individual. I'm sure you'll handle your loss as best you can, and if it's any condolence; you have me and my families sympathy and admiration for the efforts you make in the name of human prosperity. Keep fighting the good fight...♥ T_C
Study the symptoms not the virus...
It's the same premise with the Pukes and euthanasia.
they got it out there.
All the push-back in the world isn't gonna make a finger-fuck's difference in the minds of those who were alraedy fearful of the worst.
It's OUT THERE!
That's all that matters. You can deny it all you like ("Yeah, sure they deny it. You expect 'em to admit it?"), you can hold seminars, you can show movies. You can do anything you wanna, but it is out there, and there are credulous souls who "believe" it,so it ain't going away...
If real healthcare reform does not pass I will be convinced we living in an oligarchy and the government in Washington is only a show being put on before pulling out the rubber stamp.
You'll then only be about 30 years too late...
Does anyone else? It seems pertinent as well, from a living will perspective.
[ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_Ann_Quinlan ]
Study the symptoms not the virus...
I was a kid and it freaked me out. I was sold on euthanasia at age six.
...dangers of drugs and booze. Coincidentally about that time a student from a neighboring school district, got drunk, his friends at the party placed him out in the car to sleep it it off, where he evidently proceeded to choke to death on his own vomit, while the party continued, unknowingly back inside the house. 17-years old. :-/
Study the symptoms not the virus...
I remember.
Of course I still remember Patty Hearst, and the start of the whole Stockholm Syndrome debate.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
My mother died from cancer. Her last visit with a physician was with a cancer specialist. He told my mother that she had a choice... she could be admitted to the hospital and have all kinds of interventions done to her and maybe, just maybe, live another 3 months at the very most. OR she could go home and die in peace. My mother chose to go home. She died about 3 weeks later, peacefully and without pain and she had the opportunity to speak with each family member individually. On her death bed, she smiled three times and then ceased to breath.
started their end-of-life planning in the mid-80s -- what they wanted done, what they didn't want, how they wanted their estate divided up, etc. It was tremendously helpful when the time came. They were very specific.
Susie, my condolences on the loss of your father. It is very difficult to go through losing your family -- especially parents.
for your loss Susie. I'm sure the hearts of all bloggers are thinking of you.
"Democratic strategists privately acknowledged that they were hesitant to give extra attention to the issue by refuting the inaccuracies, but they worry that it will further agitate already-skeptical seniors."
If those same "Democratic Strategists" had the balls to open their mouths and call bullshit when this "they wanna kill old people" horseshit started, there would be no need to worry about agitating seniors, would there? Such a typical Beltway Democrat response - "let's sit on our asses and ignore this and it'll go away".
If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're gonna get selfish, ignorant leaders.
George Carlin
Anyone who would refuse to speak affirmatively against this flagrantly misleading propaganda is a coward and an indirect accomplice of the mendaceous cowards who conceived this putrid campaign.
Good thing that these yellowbellied strategists weren't Mother Jones helping the miners win equity and justice. Beltway Mother Jones would have too self absorbed and apathetic to care in the first place. Let the miners go hang. It's their fault for being there in the first place.
"We will find fulfillment not in the goods that we have, but in the good we can do for each other."
Robert F. Kennedy
My condolences on your loss, Susie. As far as I'm concerned, every one should have a living will which specifically spells out their wishes should they be stricken by a terminal illness. There's no mystery to this, no deep,dark Liberal conspiracy; it's friggin' commonsense. Living wills have been around for decades, but try telling that to the rubes who believe that everything the GOP says, especially through it's propaganda arm, FOX News, is gospel.
If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're gonna get selfish, ignorant leaders.
George Carlin
My condolences to you and your family.
My father died 15 years ago of cancer. Medicare did pay everything, we had help from hospice, and thankfully at the end he was able to have morphine through an IV as he had throat cancer and couldn't swallow at that point. It angers me that your father was treated that badly in that area by his lousy doctor! :(
I've never seen change without a fire
What happened to your father is outrageous. His doctor sounds like a real scumbag.
Kudos to you for taking such good care of both your parents. They must have been very proud of you.
"And some of those seniors have no family left to fight for them." Truer words were never spoken. It is heartbreaking.
My deepest condolences to you, Susie.
for Lars Larson. He's a minor league Rush Limbo at best. He's hates the government and any services that are provided to the citizen's of this country. There's a special place in hell for him that just got a little deeper after this despicable display of all out lying.
Susie, I'm sorry to hear of your loss.
I understand your anger at some doctors. When my good friend was dying of cancer, she asked for a self-administered IV drip of morphine and was given it right away. She just squeezed her fingers togther and gave herself a dose of pain-killing morphine.
"If the US government enforced its banking laws like it did its park regulations, we wouldn't be
in this damn park in the first place." OCCUPY.!!
I would guess that what they're exaggerating is the end-to-life issues. When a human can be so wired up by doctors that to all intents and purposes they're already dead, but for the machines.
How long could a government health plan pay for such fruitless endeavors?
Shades of Terry Schiavo.
And the fact is republican policies are more likely to kill you; your grandchild on a foreign shore, and yourselves when you have to choose between needful medicine and treatment, or eating.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
religionism, is just as guilty as capitalism for the push-back, if not, more so. To deny the truth... is to lie!
It's self-evident, if you honestly look at the facts. Remember... actions speak louder then words, why do we do what we do? "Do unto others" I guess that's just a matter of interpretation 2. :-/
Study the symptoms not the virus...
I would say, "To knowingly deny the truth...is to lie."
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
...thank you for reminding me. ♥
Study the symptoms not the virus...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYtlpG0hb38
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
touché
Study the symptoms not the virus...
douché
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Snip -WAUSAU, Wis. (AP) -- A central Wisconsin man accused of killing his 11-year-old daughter by praying instead of seeking medical care was found guilty Saturday of second-degree reckless homicide.
[ http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009/08/01/us... ]
Study the symptoms not the virus...
Let's dispense with it. Truth is a static assertion that means one thing, or another, from one individual to another.
Let's replace it with honesty, the volitional, effort-driven process of linking facts into proper context that remains the same for each individual.
why would religious people, particulalry radical christians want health care? Their greates ambition in life is to be dead so they can be with Jeebus...
I'm so sorry to hear about your mom Susie. I lost my mother 16 years ago and I still can remember how great the hospice works were. And I couldn't believe the arrogance of the doctor who imposed his BS beliefs on your father and your family like he did.
That's the trouble I have with most religious people is that just as they demand respect for their beliefs they disrespect everyone elses beliefs and they ususally feel that what they believe trumps what everyone else believes because they have faith. Doctor X should be put out of business and put into jail for his actions, but I fear this is far more common then we realize.
Right-wing Republicans and/or those that enable them, are nothing short of scum.
You can watch them at work every day thanks to C-SPAN. And they have qualms about parading their
lies to as large a public as they can.
And given that the right-wing Christians are part and parcel, I say they're scum too.
I can only hope that enough of those "independents" realize what it will mean if they are empowered once again.
If there is a "Christian God", I assure you that these people will get their just rewards.
i hate them with a white hot fire. my father just died 5 months ago and the havok the health insurance gives us to this day is horrid.
yesterday i had to talk my 88 year old mother down from the lies spread about the kill granny campaign. those that prey on the elderly's fears like this are abominable creatures. i'm glad their party's imploding.
I am very sorry to hear about your loss.
I hope you find comfort in knowing that your "online friends" have you and your family in our hearts.
1. Canada’s health care system is “socialized medicine.”
False. In socialized medical systems, the doctors work directly for the state. In Canada (and many other countries with universal care), doctors run their own private practices, just like they do in the US. The only difference is that every doctor deals with one insurer, instead of 150. And that insurer is the provincial government, which is accountable to the legislature and the voters if the quality of coverage is allowed to slide.
The proper term for this is “single-payer insurance.” In talking to Americans about it, the better phrase is “Medicare for all.”
I'm very sorry to hear about your mother, Susie. My thoughts are with you.
These f'kn f'ks infuriate the hell out of me. Last week, Hannity was saying that Obama's plan is calling for the government to determine how you're going to die.
There's a special place in hell for people like Hannity, Rep Foxx, Lars Larsen, and all these others who lie and attempt to scare seniors in order to get them to fear Obama's plan.
like everyone here, i would like to say i am very sorry for your loss
-- and also how his final days were filtered through the doc's own view-- contrary to what your dad and family would have wanted. and how he was 'talked out' of his wishes by the doc. despicable.
my thoughts (on end-of-life care):
it does point up the need for a living will. and to tell your medical care person what you want.
for those w/medical care: when you're with your medical care person (primary care, specialist), it would be important to ask: would you comply with my decision not to have extraordinary measures if/when i have an end-of-life, ie, terminal illness? will you be able to provide pain relief only for me? if they cannot say - or say no, find someone else who agrees to comply w/your wishes. you have to work at having a say in your own end of life decisions. we know this. our parents, spouses, friends, children who preceded us may not have. .. and have it in writing (living will) and let your people know your decision & where the document is.
I'm sorry, but Lars, you bloated windsack son-of-a-bitch. "Well, there's the question, whether or not it will be at their request or the government is going to do it."
As the husband of a hospice worker, I say utter, out-and-out, undistilled BULLSHIT!
Having grown up in Portland, I remember Larson as a "news man." He is very intelligent--and he's a fucking liar. He isn't a guy you can play nicely with, though; he's very smart, so when he's completely dishonest in the formulation of an argument, it's going to be well crafted. And, therefore, he completely lacks scruples...he knows what his gun-hoarding, gay-bashing, "don't tax me for anything," mouth-breathing audience wants to hear.
Earl B. takes the right tack with him here (Earl also knowing Lars well, I'm sure, from his days as a Portland city councilman, and being pretty smart himself). The only thing I would've appreciated is having Earl tell the American public what Progressives and Democrats in Portland have known for years: It's Lars Larson who is the burden on society. Come out of your air-conditioned studio/bunker, Lars, and tell some hospice patients (or hospice nurses) why Medicare shouldn't pay for conversations about an advance directive, end-of-life care, or anything hospice-related at all. Those little, old ladies will kick you squarely in the nuts.
I couldn't agree more with Susie's assessment - and on a personal note, my heartfelt condolences for the recent loss of your mother.
Frankly, I was shocked when I first saw this non-issue covered by Chris Matthews and he seemed to actually be buying in to some of the right wing babble. How could this guy be so utterly clueless on what a Living Will was? I emailed him to tell him so, along with refuting his suggestion that only senior citizens should worry about end-of-life arrangements. Has he forgotten how young Tim Russert was?!
Still, on the next day when Matthews covered this topic again, he let the right wing talking head equate a Living Will with the legalized euthanasia they have in Oregon! Yes Chris, publicly funded abortion and legalized euthanasia are controversial. (Both of which I support, by the way.) But this is neither, and he should have been shutting down their noise, like he did with the birther nonsense, instead of feeding into it and treating it like it was worthy of serious debate.
Whenever I watch a non PBS interview by the so called journalists in the United States I'm flabbergasted by the lack of decorum.
The 'media star' asks infantile, framed questions and does not allow the interviewee adequate response time.
He raises his voice to interupt, causing the respondant to raise his own to finish his point.
Its like a couple of 12 year old boys at recess trying to impress a pubescent girl.
No wonder it is so easy to sell snake oil to Americans, its who can yell the loudest!
Yeahp , what more can be said , these people are despicable , as rotten and low as they come . They've always been around but now they are out in the open and blatant because people are so damned stupid they accept and even support these dirty bastards ... against their own best interest no less ! Who needs Bin Laden when there is Rupert Murdoch and his freak show misleading a gullible , irrational and pea brained population . Murdoch , public enemy # 1 .
Condolences on the loss of your mother. I've heard similar horror stories from other people, with some of the problem arising from right-wing physicians and some arising from right-wing relatives.
Why are so many physicians Republicans and Libertarians? Is it greed and the feeling of power that comes from having people's lives in your hands? I'm from Texas so it's expected to be true here, I suppose, but from what I hear it's that way in many other parts of the country as well. I don't feel like I can trust a right-winger to be a good doctor, because his beliefs might interfere with his duty to reduce suffering.
If I had to settle on a doctor with mystical inclinations, I'd be less inclined to see a catholic or mormon doctor. People of those faiths are more likely to rationalize torture. (H/T to Ron from last night's open thread)
I would expect libertarian doctors to have libertarian views on end of life, forced vaccinations, recreational drugs, access to nutritional supplements and information about how they can help, etc. Not the case?
Because any ethical doctor, atheist or otherwise, would prescribe recreational drugs.
BTW, what have you got against run of the mill- catholic- doctors? Oh you mean Catholic...
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
Did you misunderstand?
First, I meant to type "run of the mill- catholic- doctors, like general practitioners?"
On to it:
cath·o·lic (kth-lk, kthlk)
adj.
1. Of broad or liberal scope; comprehensive: "The 100-odd pages of formulas and constants are surely the most catholic to be found" (Scientific American).
2. Including or concerning all humankind; universal: "what was of catholic rather than national interest" (J.A. Froude).
3. Catholic
a. Of or involving the Roman Catholic Church.
b. Of or relating to the universal Christian church.
c. Of or relating to the ancient undivided Christian church.
d. Of or relating to those churches that have claimed to be representatives of the ancient undivided church.
n. Catholic
A member of a Catholic church, especially a Roman Catholic
It's like Democrats and democrats. You can most definitely be one of the latter without being one of the former, right?
Just keepin' ya on your toes, Alaska. ;D
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
"
dearboy!" Make it, or break it, right?Second, who said anything about prescribing recreational drugs? You went out of your way to imply that I did. Wouldn't that have been wacky of me!
However, examined using the honest-process, anyone can see that I said no such thing-- if they don't give up before they move past your tedious, patronizing "catholic" vs "Catholic" "definitions, lad" distraction. Sadly typical of you, Andy K. Get a new thing, this one is worn out.
Crooks & Liars, indeed.
...on recreational drugs going to differ from those of an ethical libertarian doctor, Brad? And what precludes a Catholic or a Mormon from being a libertarian? Is libertarianism a religion now?
For someone who purports to be a libertarian, I find your evident prejudice(and, yes, it is prejudice) against individuals who choose freely to profess their faith more than a tad ironic.
My very, very devout Roman Catholic grandmother had her first heart attack at the age of 91. After she recovered, she and her Roman Catholic lawyer wrote up a living will that included d.n.r. orders. When she had her heart attack at 95, she died peacefully at her Roman Catholic-run hospital, attended by her Roman Catholic doctor.
BTW, my grandmother spoke out against torture, too.
So who's the liar here, Brad, me or the guy who uses libertarianism as a justification to practice his prejudices?
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
What a typically bewildering array of points! You are just all over the place.
And you are still a liar.
Why in the fuck would you make THAT leap? What do you base that on? The link to Ray McGovern that raises exactly one number- 54%- of people of all religions, but then no links to anything else? The same link that admits to a random sampling of Mormons, rather than a scientific survey? The same link that refers to a Pew poll but fails to link it? What's the breakdown of Catholic or Mormon doctors who rationalize torture, Brad? 100%? 0%?
You are prejudiced. You pre-judge Catholic and Mormon doctors with weak evidence. If I were to say that most Alaskans are corrupt, based on Palin, Stevens and the Murkowskis, should I expect you to let it go without pointing out that I'm using the wrong survey data?
And again, it's pretty damned ironic that a professed libertarian would lump together individuals who share certain broad designations, as if ALL Catholic or Mormon doctors are identical to each other.
You're only claiming bewilderment because you're either dishonest or stupid, though I suspect a you're a bit from column A and a bit from column B.
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
was to imply witheringly boring.
Also, I would tend not to patronize Mormons and Catholics for the gay reasons. So color me prejudiced.
Merriam-Webster that.
Don't see anything about boredom, ennui, withering wilted or bored to pieces there. Do you alway make up definitions to words, and just expect the world to know what you meant?
me-oww!
Eh-- Oh! I dozed off.
Bewildering also implied that this tactic might work on the less alert.
you still haven't answered my question from earlier
me-oww!
You tar all with the same brush. You don't get that there are dissenters inside of each church over many topics. I can't speak to the LDS, but there's a lot of dissent inside the Roman Catholic church.
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
.
he's got a subthread below...
me-oww!
Just like with the word conservative, the word libertarian as an adjective does not mean the same thing as the word Libertarian as a proper noun. Where I live, and I assume elsewhere, many Libertarians are indistinguishable from Republicans in their fundamentalist religiosity, support for capitalist domination above all, and opposition to social services. In fact, like Ron Paul, many vacillate between considering themselves Libertarian and considering themselves Republican. Libertarians are said to favor many of the things you mention in your last paragraph, but from what I've seen they tend to side with Republicans in many instances on those very issues, often managing to couch their position in "freedom from government control" rhetoric.
And it's not religious doctors I'm against; some of the most compassionate, humanistic people I've ever met have been nominally Christian. It's power-mad, authoritarian doctors who can impose harsh rules without empathizing with suffering that I see as problematic, and right-wing politics tends to attract the lion's share of those types.
You get my respect with these observations.
Just read this just now and I never knew. Please accept my sincerest condolences.
JP
http://giveusthisdayourdailtydread.blogspot.com
I've been seeing this all week from these evil, despicable repugs. It really is despicable.
Someone, like Mike Stark at Firedoglake, should track down every single one of these repug congressmen/women, talk show hosts, etc., get them on tape, and make them tell us exactly where in the legislation it says that the President wants to kill old people; make them tell us exactly what this legislation says, word for word.
These people have no conscience.
I can't sleep...this really upsets me. So I just sent Virginia Foxx a scathing email. I hope it is still a valid email and goes through.
These "evil-doers" have no conscience; they have no sense of decency.
So very sorry about your mother.
I have seen dignity in dying, and I have seen the loss thereof. Both of my paternal grandparents were fortunate enough to have home hospice. My maternal grandmother... not so much, although she finally did get hospice at the very end. And my uncle went from the assisted living facility to the emergency room eight times in two months before they finally admitted him, and sometimes I think that he died less of his illness than of just being exhausted from the ongoing struggle.
No one should have to suffer at the end of life.
In a lot of ways, the tactics being used by the Repubs and the Villagers are precisely the same tactics used to sell the Iraq war: fear fear fear. And those who would use them so callously against older people are vermin -- as Harry Hamlin said in Movie Movie, "a man of the highest scum."
I'm very sorry for your loss.
You can take some comfort in what you're doing for others around you. Keep on Fightin'!!!
Isn't the story that a health plan will be partially paid for by making Medicare more efficient? We've had 25 years of Republican "efficiency" and seen what it has done to our public sector from our schools, to our bridges that fall into the Mississippi, to a major metropolis underwater.
Basically, seniors are being asked to _trust_ that Obama will actually enhance efficiency instead of just cutting costs. But if this becomes just an insurance company giveaway and there isn't a robust and attractive public option, much less a universal national health service, where's the change we can believe in? And what are the odds this _won't_ impact seniors?
NORTH CAROLINA VIRGINIA FOXX ON HER ANTI GAY AGENDA,
►[ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xONmlsWiwo0 ](2:36)
Fascism permeates our halls of congress...
Study the symptoms not the virus...
Democrats plan for America?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0TlRORzyq8
As opposed to the republicans?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Sp-VFBbjpE
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Another gov't problem that would not have happened given true campaign reform.
No "contribution$" from $pecial interest$, no favors for special interests.
E Pleb Neesta
GODISNOWHERE
Blessed are the cheese makers.
I think he is just 'all over' you!
what does that mean?
Andy K demonstrated he is a liar here, implying I made a crazy statement that I did not. Further on, he dishonestly implied I was a liar. Where did I lie? Favoring dealings with non-mystics is prejudicial, but it is not being a liar.
Andy is like the folk who Susie takes to task with her post we're threading on, by creating these self-serving fabrications.
Who's all over who?
say it aint so, mofo...
Nice personal attack. Um I looked at that comment, and I could not see anything that purported to be a fact. There was a sarky comment, followed by a question.
"Because any ethical doctor, atheist or otherwise, would prescribe recreational drugs." Sarky (sarcastic) Part
"BTW, what have you got against run of the mill- catholic- doctors? Oh you mean Catholic..." question part.
Now parse me the lie, dude.
me-oww!
I'm a "mofo."
Andy could have said he was being sarcastic, but he never did. He got caught in his own typical dishonest Andy K style trap.
sarcasm, you are much more impaired than originally suspected. Take your righteous indignation outdoors and enjoy the weather. You are taking the internets to seriously. Really. You are put loads of energy into arguing with a guy you'll probably never meet. And your arguing here will solve nothing.
What's the attraction, Brad?
me-oww!
with the dishonesty. My intent is to provide a template, as Susie did, for others to more easily dismiss dishonesty.
Do we kill people who are Medicaid and Medicare because care is too expensive? I know insurance companies deny care every day for people because the "cost-benefit" ratio is just not right.
Big Insurance and Pharma and their Republican enablers are by making sure insurance and meds are too expensive.
~Sorry, dude. We can't help you with your cancer because [insert bogus reason here].
Definition from: http://www.nrlc.org/euthanasia/index.html
Euthanasia: Euthanasia is the intentional killing by act or omission of a dependent human being for his or her alleged benefit.
Omission by cost for profit.
E Pleb Neesta
GODISNOWHERE
Blessed are the cheese makers.
Comments are closed on this entry