The Torture Apologists Have No Place Left To Hide

"'I said he was important,' Bush said to Tenet at one of their daily meetings. 'You're not going to let me lose face on this, are you?'

Dan Froomkin has written a comprehensive piece making the case there was simply no logical reason for the Bush administration to torture suspects. He thinks it was about retribution for the World Trade Center attacks.

I figured out a few decades ago that when there's no logical reason for an action, there's usually a subconscious, compulsive one. Froomkin reminds us there were simply no intelligence gains to be had, yet the Bush administration was very, very focused on torturing prisoners, anyway. It seems obvious to me that the question is the answer: George W. Bush.

What do you know about his character that makes you think he would be something other than vindictive and vicious? I mean, the only job at which he was ever really successful was running the dirty tricks operation for his father's campaign. Why wouldn't he authorize torture? It made him feel presidential.

And if we've learned anything in the past eight years, it's that it's all about George:

Abu Zubaida was the alpha and omega of the Bush administration's argument for torture.

That's why Sunday's front-page Washington Post story by Peter Finn and Joby Warrick is such a blow to the last remaining torture apologists.

Finn and Warrick reported that "not a single significant plot was foiled" as a result of Zubaida's brutal treatment -- and that, quite to the contrary, his false confessions "triggered a series of alerts and sent hundreds of CIA and FBI investigators scurrying in pursuit of phantoms."

Zubaida was the first detainee to be tortured at the direct instruction of the White House. Then he was President George W. Bush's Exhibit A in defense of the "enhanced interrogation" procedures that constituted torture. And he continues to be held up as a justification for torture by its most ardent defenders.

But as author Ron Suskind reported almost three years ago -- and as The Post now confirms -- almost all the key assertions the Bush administration made about Zubaida were wrong.

Zubaida wasn't a major al Qaeda figure. He wasn't holding back critical information. His torture didn't produce valuable intelligence -- and it certainly didn't save lives.

All the calculations the Bush White House claims to have made in its decision to abandon long-held moral and legal strictures against abusive interrogation turn out to have been profoundly flawed, not just on a moral basis but on a coldly practical one as well.

Indeed, the Post article raises the even further disquieting possibility that intentional cruelty was part of the White House's motive.

The most charitable interpretation at this point of the decision to torture is that it was a well-intentioned overreaction of people under enormous stress whose only interest was in protecting the people of the United States. But there's always been one big problem with that theory: While torture works on TV, knowledgeable intelligence professionals and trained interrogators know that in the real world, it's actually ineffective and even counterproductive. The only thing it's really good as it getting false confessions.

So why do it? Some social psychologists (see, for instance, Kevin M. Carlsmith on NiemanWatchdog.org) have speculated that the real motivation for torture is retribution.

And now someone with first-hand knowledge is suggesting that was a factor in Zubaida's case.

Quoting a "former Justice Department official closely involved in the early investigation of Abu Zubaida," Finn and Warwick write that the pressure on CIA interrogators "from upper levels of the government was 'tremendous,' driven in part by the routine of daily meetings in which policymakers would press for updates...

"'They couldn't stand the idea that there wasn't anything new,' the official said. 'They'd say, "You aren't working hard enough." There was both a disbelief in what he was saying and also a desire for retribution -- a feeling that 'He's going to talk, and if he doesn't talk, we'll do whatever.'"'

The Post story also makes it clear that some people with great reality-denying skills remain at the upper levels of the government: "Some U.S. officials remain steadfast in their conclusion that Abu Zubaida possessed, and gave up, plenty of useful information about al-Qaeda," Finn and Warwick write.

"'It's simply wrong to suggest that Abu Zubaida wasn't intimately involved with al-Qaeda,' said a U.S. counterterrorism official, speaking on the condition of anonymity because much about Abu Zubaida remains classified. 'He was one of the terrorist organization's key facilitators, offered new insights into how the organization operated, provided critical information on senior al-Qaeda figures...and identified hundreds of al-Qaeda members. How anyone can minimize that information -- some of the best we had at the time on al-Qaeda -- is beyond me.'"

But who are these people? How can they still possibly believe this given all the evidence to the contrary? What are they doing still in government?

Author and investigative reporter Suskind first exposed the rampant fallacies of the administration's Zubaida narrative in his explosive June 2006 book, The One Percent Doctrine. See my June 20, 2006 column for a summary.

But mainstream news organizations, unable to match Suskind's sources, largely refused to acknowledge his reporting.

Indeed, in September 2006, when the White House for the first time publicly acknowledged the existence of a secret CIA detention and interrogation program, Bush had no qualms about putting Zubaida front and center.

In a major speech, he proudly described how Zubaida -- "a senior terrorist leader and a trusted associate of Osama bin Laden" -- was questioned using the CIA's new "alternative set of procedures" and then "'began to provide information on key al Qaeda operatives."

All lies and euphemisms. But all reported pretty much straight at the time by a mainstream media that, if it noted Suskind's reporting at all, did so as an afterthought.

There's no doubt that Zubaida's capture in spring 2002 was what sent the administration down the path to state-sanctioned torture. Last April, ABC News reported that starting right after his capture, top Bush aides including Vice President Dick Cheney micromanaged his interrogation from the White House basement. "The high-level discussions about these 'enhanced interrogation techniques' were so detailed," ABC's sources said, "some of the interrogation sessions were almost choreographed -- down to the number of times CIA agents could use a specific tactic." Bush has acknowledged he was aware of those meetings at the time.

Techniques that created damage short of "the level of death, organ failure, or the permanent impairment of a significant body function" were later authorized in an August 2002 Justice Department memo, known as the Torture Memo.

Just two weeks ago, in a New York Review of Books article based on a confidential report from the International Committee of the Red Cross, Mark Danner described the techniques used on Zubaida in harrowing detail.

Here is what Zubaida told the ICRC, via Danner: "'I was taken out of my cell and one of the interrogators wrapped a towel around my neck; they then used it to swing me around and smash me repeatedly against the hard walls of the room.'

"The prisoner was then put in a coffin-like black box, about 4 feet by 3 feet and 6 feet high, 'for what I think was about one and a half to two hours.' He added: The box was totally black on the inside as well as the outside.... They put a cloth or cover over the outside of the box to cut out the light and restrict my air supply. It was difficult to breathe. When I was let out of the box I saw that one of the walls of the room had been covered with plywood sheeting. From now on it was against this wall that I was then smashed with the towel around my neck. I think that the plywood was put there to provide some absorption of the impact of my body. The interrogators realized that smashing me against the hard wall would probably quickly result in physical injury.'"

It goes on and on. Waterboarding -- and Zubaida is one of three detainees known to have been subjected to that notorious torture technique -- was only a part of it.

Bush's personal investment in Zubaida was obvious even in public statements. As early as April 9, 2002, Bush bragged to fellow Republicans at a political fundraiser: "The other day we hauled in a guy named Abu Zubaydah. He's one of the top operatives plotting and planning death and destruction on the United States. He's not plotting and planning anymore. He's where he belongs."

In a June 6, 2002, address, Bush called Zubaida al Qaeda's "chief of operations" and said that "[f]rom him and from hundreds of others, we are learning more about how the terrorists plan and operate, information crucial in anticipating and preventing future attacks."

At a Republican fundraiser on October 14, 2002, Bush called Zubaida "one of the top three leaders in the organization."

But according to Suskind, even as Bush was publicly proclaiming Zubaida's malevolence, he was privately being briefed about doubts within the intelligence community regarding Zubaida's significance -- and mental stability. Suskind quotes the following exchange between Bush and then-CIA director George Tenet:

"'I said he was important,' Bush said to Tenet at one of their daily meetings. 'You're not going to let me lose face on this, are you?'

"'No Sir, Mr. President.'"



Login or Register to post comments.

80 comments

Do it !

Theres more than a few guilty ones in Britain too.

Was anybody surprised when he was booted out of #10, he got that fake middle east peace ambassador/envoy job, and then went to ground for about a year prob in fear of possible international arrest warrants, not seen or heard of.

No more south of France summer vacations for the Blair family, too too close to the Spanish border and possible arrest.

... THEN THERE IS NO JUSTICE.

We MUST bring these scum bags to justice or they will have destroyed more than our economy!

We are going to find out that KINGGEO now has a well-stocked torture library. A creature that needed to stuff frog's mouths with firecrackers, then blow them up doesn't change. It divides up it's 'pleasure' into special catagories, sexual torture, dog torture, again sexual torture. IT has always been a sociopath. This doesn't change. No drug will change it, no behavior mod, nothing changes a psychosis, which is why it has it's own diagnositic code for the mental health specialists.

Blair and his family haven't been welcome at their French Pyrenees summer retreat since the start of the Iraq war. So what does Blair do? He tells the Pope that he wants to become a Catholic. Maybe now that he's converted Blair has designs on Italy.

The indictments in Spain are just the beginning. The momentum for bringing BushCo to justice is building. Cheney will be the prize!

There were plenty of phantoms in Austin when Bush was governor. I married one.

Arrested, kidnapped, or seized, sold to the CIA, and went through various camps, prison ships (stored in cages on US navy ships), assorted hellhole torture prisons in many countries and Gitmo.

Its could be a strange coincidence that so many thousands got the treatment and tortured, could it be a direct one for one revenge for 9/11 !?

And also trained and turned a generation of TLA and gov officials into rabid unthinking criminal monsters, people with guilty secrets and conformists for the Republican crime machine.

Torture and solitary confinement turns human beings into cabbages, even when a person is released they are never the same person again, their minds are broken, their family connections are destroyed, careers ruined, and they are likely to suffer from PTSD and nightmares for the rest of their lives, short ones too if they succumb to suicidal thoughts.

They are effectively deaded as their previous personalities are wiped out and replaced with a shrunken prisoner mentality.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_re...

roughly 6,000 domesticly
over 3,000 from europe
at least 6,000 from Iraq (the pretense was that Al Kaline was operating in Iraq, but it turns out that Iraqi neighbors used the US to even the scores with their enemies.

There are other places where you can get more info than wikipedia.

Here's a list

And theres 20,000 inmates still at Camp Bucca, men women and children, some are people from Abu Gharib, others newer roundups.

And that place seems to be a hellhole, definitely fits the definition of a 1930s concentration camp

When I hear about 3000 people arrested, seized, kidnapped, sold to the CIA, etc., because I think they tried to disappear me, as well, but my acute intuition kicked in and they failed.

But the leadership didn't care. George Bush was the same man who snickered at the woman who pleaded for her life as a death row inmate in Texas.

how W used to boast about having closed the "torture" prisons of Hussien? He especially liked to smirk and claim there were no more Rape Rooms? God, what a sickening excuse for a human being.

W probably got the idea of torture from his fraternity days in Skull and Bones with all the hazing. Sounds quite logical, even after viewing the Josh Brolin movie "W."

Of course there was something to gain if you had something to hide. Let's assume that some highly placed people in the Bush administration aided and abetted the events of 9-11. Seemingly innocent people could know something that would lead to discovery of this effort. Long imprisonment and torture could yield info from innocent people about who they may have seen where and when. That guy would have known too much and would have to be "neutralized" either by killing him, destroying his mind, or making him a suspected US agent and therefore a pariah when he was eventually released. We know that a secret CIA assassination team reported directly to Cheney (Seymour Hersh), and so would have those who reported on Al Qaida prior to 9-11.

The ONLY productive use of torture is to gain false confessions. People will say anything to stop the pain. This we know.
Yes, it is possible that the military-cia complex was cajoled into acting like college frat boys and were all just having a system-wide "fun time" hazing, but this is really high-stakes hi-jinx: after all, torture is one of the most serious internationally-recognized illegal activities, and there is a very high price to pay.
So I doubt it was simply a sick-minded prez having sway over the military and CIA. A more plausible explanation is the most obvious: Bush&Co desperately needed false confessions. They needed scapegoats for 9/11, perhaps not just because their people (we, the people, that is) wanted blood -and fast-, but because hidden in their ranks were the true culprits behind the mass murder that day.
A few sacrificial goats and the truly guilty could just walk away. Or so they thought.
At the bottom of the "inconsistencies" of 9/11 is a very rational unfolding of a crime. Like a key in a lock, once you consider that the amoral criminals might not be hidden in a cave, but are the ones with most to gain, most control over the situation, and least scruples, (all arrows pointing to inside job), then there are far fewer "inconsistencies". For those among us who have not come to this conclusion, please look closely at the evidence with an open mind. We need the truth to be shown, no matter where it leads.

Eric Holder and Barack Obama know what has happened vis-a-vis the torture question.

The ball, Constitutionally, is in their court.

I am waiting patiently for the truth to out, but my patience is wearing very thin.

....when the country finds itself in more stable circumstances. Right now there are so many problems here in America that need fixing, I think it would only add to the turmoil if he attempted to do anything to Bush and Co right now.

Besides, they aren't going anywhere so I have no doubt they WILL be prosecuted.

If they are prosecuted, it will not be by the United States.

Americans look after their own, no matter what they do.

largest penal system in the world: because we look after our own, no matter what they do. In this case, it's the rich, corporate and connected who are looking after their own. Of course, I include our Corporate Congress.

That didn't stop the immediate arrest of the criminals, and the eventual Nuremberg trials from happening.

Troubles do not mean we have to drop our principles.

A G20 meeting is about to commence in London but apparently VP Joe Biden met privately with Zapatero, the Spanish prime minister, a few days ago.

It's in our court, too. Don't sit waiting for Obama.

..I'm sorry, the economy should take center stage but the appointment of a Special Prosecutor, hell, there's probably guys waiting in the wings to GO on the prosecution of the torturers, oh wait, that's us, all of us, all of the U.S. That's what W did to us! Made us Torturers. Let the Prosecutions begin!

that, at best, Bushco let it happen.
Cruel and vindictive? Well, of course, but that doesn't entirely explain why Bushco, made up of cowards, would take such a legally risky course.
My theory is that by torturing these men, and letting it slip by wink and nudge that Bushco was torturing them, Bushco helped maintain the illusion that these men were so extremely dangerous that ultimate means were necessary. After all, if it came out that Abu Zubaydah and his buds weren't the top players in Al Qaeda--and the facts of 9/11 strongly suggest that others were pulling the strings--and that the FBI could have handled catching him better than the 10th Mountain Division, the folks back home might start to wonder why exactly we invaded Iraq and got all those people killed (and spent all that money) in the first place. And why the USA PATRIOT Act was allowed to pass. And why those dull normals are demanding they take off their shoes and ditch their shampoo. Etc. etc.
Also, as long as these men could (and can) be held incommunicado, nobody with a genuine interest in the truth would be able to question them and find out that Bushco's "War on Terror" was top to bottom a fraud.
Bushco wasn't torturing terrorists. It was torturing to create the appearance of terrorists.

And then, through torture, ACTUALLY created terrorists.

lying to government officials while being tortutred. This is the only thing these clowns can get to stick. These self-righteous fools would have the nards to charge him for the false information that led them on wild goose chases. Cheney needs to be tried and if found guilty hung in public.

I'm afraid you're headed down the wrong track here. The object of torture is neither the extraction of information, nor mere retribution. It is humiliation and intimidation. Not of individuals, but entire communities. The aim is to strip people of their dignity and send a message to the communities from which they come that we are bad, really bad, and will do the unimaginable if you oppose us. Just look at the techniques employed, specifically targeted at Muslims: sexual humiliation, dogs, religious sacrilege. All designed to humiliate Islamic males.

Do not forget, this isn't the first time torture has been used as a tactic for US foreign policy. It was used in Vietnam and throughout Latin America and specific methods were taught to right wing death squads and military personnel at the School of the Americas.

Torture is a method of psychological warfare directed at whole communities, not necessarily meant to extract information from the individuals it is practiced against.

now, it was reported a couple of years ago, tricksy ways to combat entire cultures with mind tricks and targeted propaganda.

Imprisonment without trial and torture of renditioned mostly innocent people falls into this category of tricks.

Imagine being some type of social or political activist in some arabic country, somebody tips the wink and you vanish off into the machine.

Thats going to bring a whole new level of fear.

What with the CIA and the DHS and their domestic cointelpro paintballer games, we have true modern forms of the gestapo, nothing separates then and now. The only difference is that the modern gestapo likes to boast of what it does on TV and in the newspapers. Hitler's ones were more subtle.

As Snowball observed - Bush and his handlers had plenty of logical reasons to torture:

1) The voters were angry, so "harsh interrogation tactics" polled well- especially with an electorate trained to think bleeding heart liberal judges routinely let criminals go "on a technicality." You know - like the technicality that let Oliver North go free...

2) Torture = false confessions = excuse to raise the threat level = "See, we're keeping the fatherland safe..."

3) It furthered their domestic agenda: "we need conservative judges who won't let criminals (like these terrorists) free on technicalities...

Very logical. Evil, yes - but very logical...

It is certainly true that torture is used as a psychological warfare tactic, but if that were all, then why bring people to Guantanamo? Why not just keep them in Afghanistan? No, there was a reason that these people had to be sent out of Afghanistan and thoroughly questioned. If any of them knew any facts that could link the "conspirators" to the events leading up to 9-11, this had to be known. Otherwise, what explains how so many innocent people could have been kept for so long? And please, no incompetency arguments. I refuse to believe that people who engineered a right-wing takeover of the United States government are incompetent. Wrap your head around evil. That's more like it. BTW, this is not a criticism of snowball. His comments just got me thinking more.

So easy for TLAs and other tourists to go play with and gloat at the inmates.

You can bet quite a few Republican armchair holy warriors went to Gitmo on day trips to stare at and gloat over the bad guys.

psychological warfare is usually referred to as terrorism.

Spain will trump this country in bringing charges against the Bush cabal for torture and will inflict punishment via the International court. If they beat Holder to the punch on this, we will continue to look like complicit criminals in this horrendous violation of all laws.

Just think about how you feel regarding the German people who sat back and did nothing while Hitler massacred the people? That's precisely how americans will look to the rest of the world if we fail to bring the Bush criminals to justice.

Symbolically and realistically, Holder will have no other alternative soon but TO bring investigation & charges against the previous administration. As Jonathan Turley (Constitutional lawyer on MSNBC) stated tonight - bringing Bush et al to justice WILL NOT BE AN OPTION SOON; IT WILL BE A MANDATE UNDER THE LAWS OF THIS COUNTRY.

I totally agree with your whole comment. burns me up.

and bring the most guilty of the past Bushco regime to court ASAP.

watching Obama's people try to contain the damage. If the DOJ really unraveled the torture thing they'd end up arresting dozens of Dems and Repugs for complicity, failing to stop it, etc. They're going to have to draw a line to keep Dems out of jail.

.

Oh, Obama knows there's enough Dems on the list guilty as hell and he has no choice but to play ball now that he's the Manager. Admit it, our government is broke, and nothing short of some new parties or a new system is going to save it.

They'll just say that no reporter has accurate information and that there were lots of success stories but they're all classified. The apologists have the same place to hide as they always have - behind "you can't know the truth because of national security."

Mind you I am thoroughly disgusted that the US tortures in our name. Appalled. Ashamed. And yes, outraged.

I fear that many citizens want retribution as well and others who may have been scandalized once upon a time are probably conditioned by all the rationalizations and nudges over the line of atrocities that are only slightly more appalling than the last.

Wake up America! Wake up Obama!

I woke up one wingnut when he started parsing waterboarding by saying "don't even go there!" He said but there are people who want to kill us! "No doubt!" I said, but we don't torture people because they scare us. Geez!

from wikipedia

"Boeing Jeppesen International Trip Planning

On October 23, 2006, the New Yorker reported that Jeppesen, a subsidiary of Boeing, handled the logistical planning for the CIA's extraordinary rendition flights. The allegation is based on information from an ex-employee who quoted Bob Overby, managing director of the company as saying "We do all of the extraordinary rendition flights—you know, the torture flights. Let’s face it, some of these flights end up that way. It certainly pays well." The article went on to suggest that this may make Jeppesen a potential defendant in a law suit by Khaled El-Masri.[30] Jeppesen was named as a defendant in a lawsuit filed by the ACLU on May 30, 2007, on behalf of several other individuals who were allegedly subject to extraordinary rendition."

The C.I.A.’s Travel Agent

Ghost Plane by Stephen Grey is a very good treatment of the extraordinary renditions including flight information.

They look like normal human beings, people with families, dogs and prob go to church on sunday, hard to imagine they made profits from flying people to places to be tortured in dank cells.

http://www.jeppesen.com/company/about/managem...

Rethugs are always looking for defenseless scapegoats to pin their crimes on. Since they had no intention of actually tracking down either Bin Laden or the real culprits behind 9/11, the Bush gang had an assortment of peripheral Arabs abducted to fill their gulag with likely suspects. They kept these prisoners incommunicado without legal charges so they could claim they caught a bunch of "terrorists" without needing to produce any evidence that others could dispute. They tortured their victims in a brutal attempt to produce coerced "confessions" they could use to fabricate charges against them. That torture produces nothing useful is confirmed by their despicable lack of success in prosecuting any abductees in a legitimate court of law.

Any competent lawful judge will throw out the case.

they don't want the Guantanamo prisoners to see the inside of a civilian courtroom? Because they know the "evidence" they have is bullshit, and their cases wouldn't last five minutes.

was 9/11 and the aftermath.
they stole trillions and killed millions for greed and hatred.

It will be interesting to see Bush hang Cheney out to dry in all of this. I just can't understand why Obama is assisting in the crime while Dick has been doing everything in his power to undercut him.

I don't want to wait for history to judge these lunatics. I want a court to do it, sooner than later.

... plain common sense says that the more important Abu Zubaida was, the less useful operational intelligence he'd have.

I mean, really - if you knew the U.S. had captured your senior operations officer, a guy who knew your Next Big Operation, the location of safe houses, the names of key people in the organization, etc.

Would you just sit there while the Americans extracted that information from him, torture or not? I'd burn things to the ground. Safe house? Gone. Next Big Operation? Forget it. Key people? Bugout time.

In fact, the government kept using this clown's name so much, I started referring to him as Abu Zippity-doo-dah.

It's not just the moral issue we should have been concerned about, it's the fact that the people responsible showed no judgment AT ALL.

by foreign govs, and the Bushco morons would have a press conference and shout the details to the world and any possible bad guys.

They blew several big arrests that way. PR and pleasing the Faux droolers were more important than operational procedures.

maybe i'm wrong about this but i always believed BUSH and the other turds wanted to use torture. they wanted the so-called opposition to know about it. they wanted plenty of war activity. they kept hitting the hornet's nest keeping, everyone in the game of deception.

My friend Michael told me in 2002 that the Iraq war (and more) was inevitable because, like a vampire, Bush needed the taste of fresh blood to feel alive.

He cherished his role as a dealer of death as Governor of Texas, bloody Texas, and he couldn't let it go. Remember the story of his "reviews" of death penalty convictions that were less than a total joke (was that Abu Gonzales handing him the death warrants back then)?

The man tasted the sweet blood of revenge, and needed more to slake the thirst in his empty soul. There are hangmen's nooses made especially for this type of crime. they work for a generation or two, just read your Shirer.

at those Texas prisons, systematic abuse of teens by guards and who owns the companies who ran those prisons.

I think that case is still hanging over Gonzales.

Seems to be typical of Republicans, they have this urge to torture and abuse defenseless critters, be it animals children women or men.

Truly conservatism is a mental illness.

.

Come now, there is something to be said for 'true conservatism'. Kind of the yin for the yang and all that. what we're talking about here are sociopaths that dream of ruling the world, and they did, for 8 years.

I hope our Justice Department will join in the prosecution...
I'll contribute for their air fare.

The judges over there have a mania for piling on humungously ridiculous jail sentences. Bush alone would probably get somewhere in the vicinity of 5,000 years or so. (I'm not kidding.) The gods only know what Cheney'd get.

Froomkin out to Lunch on this one:

The Bush regime's reign of terror and Torture was not for revenge but to cover-up past false pretense, maintain ongoing false pretense, and create false pretense for future false pretense for committing War crimes, Crimes against humanity, acts of Tyranny against the American people and people world-wide, crimes against the Constitution of the U.S. , the looting of the US Treasury, the rapeing of the American Tax payer and other crimes.

Bush was well aware that none of those being tortured or those he intended to torture had anything to do with 9/11 or other crimes against the United States.

Unwittingly (I presume), Mr. Froomkin is minimizing the heinous, evil and treasonous nature of Bush's many Crimes (International and Domestic).

Peace,
JK

Saying that Bush is a vicious, vindictive thug who takes out his daddy issues via torture on innocent prisoners is minimizing the evil nature of his crimes? This must be some strange use of the word "minimize" with which I'm not familiar.

.

But remember it wasn't just him. He had a whole team of enablers who are all guilty, I dont think Bush flushed a toilet without them knowing.

Excelsior,

I believe that on reflection you might agree that cold calculated treason, genocide and murder are worse crimes than crimes of passion based on mental illness. Your respnse sounded clever however is that was your goal.

Peace,
JK

We wouldn't want any foreign or domestic vigilantes doing anything horrible to those innocent (before trial and conviction) ex Bushcos, lock them up for their own protection ;)

It would be awful if they got 'extraordinary renditioned' and flown out of the country drugged up in a crate by some foreign spy org...

And we want them to stand trial here not elsewhere :) we want to see them on the stand and disgraced in front of all the US TV networks.

Fuck All Torturers.

No, thank you. Not my idea of fun.

"I figured out a few decades ago that when there's no logical reason for an action, there's usually a subconscious, compulsive one."

You're taking for granted that everybody in the world buys into the official conspiracy theory.

What about those of us who are convinced that 19 Saudi cave dwellers have been wrongly accused?

Don't forget what Chimpy himself said on 9/12/01: "Let us not tollerate any outrageous conspiracy theories."

There is only one outrageous CT with regards to 9/11: The official one.

General Jack D. Ripper: No, I mean when they tortured you, did you talk?

Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake: Ah, oh, no... well, I don't think they wanted me to talk really. I don't think they wanted me to say anything. It was just their way of having a bit of fun, the swines.

The pictures from Abu Ghraib bear gruesome witness to that.

George Bush is a coward at heart and feels the need to prove to everyone how powerful he is. Not only is he vindictive, but he strikes me as having a sadistic streak. He's the guy that blew up frogs with firecrackers and mocked that woman in Texas who he gleefully refused to commute her death sentence. When you think about the fact that two twisted men like Bush and Cheney ran the country for 8 years, is it any wonder we're in such bad shape?

GW is the product of Barbara Bush's beautiful mind.

....has a beautiful mind, LOL. I think Georgie must be providing her with additional pearls for her necklace or it would have choked the old Battle Ax by now.

.

Here's a good video of Seymour Hersh talking about Cheney's assassination wing on CNN:
http://gotchamedia.blogspot.com/2009/03/seymo...

So?
These guys lied about everything.
Obama has his work cut out for him. I hope he does well.
At least we have a chance now. With the GOPers we wouldn't.

)O(

Almost 5 thousand US soldiers would still be alive today if not for the crimes of the bush administration criminals. 1 million innocent Iraqi civilians would be alive today if not for the crimes of the bush administration criminals. 40 thousand plus US soldiers would not be physically, mentally and emotionally damaged if not for the crimes of the Bush administration criminals. 15 million innocent Iraqi civilians would not be physically, mentally and emotionally damaged today if not for the crimes of the Bush administration criminals. 40 thousand US soldiers would not be homeless today if not for the crimes of the Bush administration criminals. 5 million innocent Iraqi civilians would not be homeless today if not for the crimes of the Bush administration criminals. AND THE US CONGRESS THE US PRESIDENT AND THE US JUSTICE DEPARTMENT DO NOTHING! This is as great a shame upon our once great nation as the crimes themselves have been! Congress, the Presdident, and the Justice Department are ALL criminal in their failure to uphold US law and prosecute these criminal vermin!

george w bush is a sadist:

1. he tortured animals as a child, something we now understand is a sign of a psychopath in the making.

2. bush enjoyed the practice of branding pledges with a red-hot coat hanger at his fraternity at Yale.

3. he signed off on more executions than any governor in the history of our country, reducing the death sentence not a single time, and even mocked Karla Faye Tucker during an interview the week of her execution.

4. he has shown no remorse for the deaths of 500,000 (600,000? 750,000?) people in Iraq, a direct result of the illegal and immoral invasion and occupation.

5. he personally directed that "enemy combatants" be tortured.

i am sure there are many more examples of this behavior, these are just off the top of my head.

Except only in a jail cell for the rest of his failed miserable life.

Froomkin and Susie missed the obvious,

The very sane and logical reasons for the torture is to justify and enable the atrocities and war crimes already perpetrated or in progress and to create pretense for much more of the same.

Bush was just a figurehead that took orders from the shadow goverment of "finance capital" who did indeed enjoy the torture and mass murder parts of the plan.

Peace,
JK

I meant Bush enjoyed he torture and mass murder, not the shadow government. They are simply a massive organized crime syndicate. With them, it's just business.
Peace,
JK

80 comments

Login or Register to post comments.