This Was Probably Not The Smartest Thing the FAA Could Have Done
And not telling the mayor? Well, that was even dumber. Those poor people must have been terrified:
It was supposed to be a photo opportunity, a showcase of Air Force One alongside the sweep of New York City skyline.
But as the low-flying Boeing 747 speeded in the shadows of skyscrapers, trailed by two fighter jets, the sight instead awakened barely dormant fears of a terrorist attack, causing a momentary panic that sent workers pouring out of buildings on both sides of the Hudson River.
“I thought there was some kind of an attack,” said Paul Nadler, who sprinted down more than 20 flights of stairs after watching the plane from his office in Jersey City shortly after 10 a.m. “We ran like hell.”
In fact, the blue and white plane with “The United States of America” emblazoned on its side was one of two regularly used by the president. It was soaring above Lower Manhattan, Staten Island and Jersey City so government photographers could take pictures near the Statue of Liberty for publicity purposes.
Aides to President Obama, who was not on board, said he was incensed when he learned of the event Monday afternoon. The White House later issued a formal apology.
Witnesses described the engine roar as the planes swooped by office towers close enough to rattle the windows and prompt evacuations at scores of buildings. Some sobbed as they made their way to the street.
“As soon as someone saw how close it got to the buildings, people literally ran out,” said Carlina Rivera, 25, who works at an educational services company on the 22nd floor of 1 Liberty Plaza, adjacent to the site of the Sept. 11, 2001, attack. “Probably about 80 percent of my office left within two minutes of seeing how close it got to our building.”
into your heart it will creep, it starts when your always afraid.
It's not paranoia if they really are out to fly planes into your building.
Jon Stewart had a great segment on this last night. Funny as hell.
systems in this country that's a obvious. I agree though since this country is a wreck psychologically they could have announced this on the evening news the night before.
I thought it was a nothing piece. But then I heard all this was for a photo op and the plane wasn't even being used for business. Utterly ridiculous. Just a pure waste of money. Who the hell needs a pinup of Air Force One?
I think the photo op was just a small part of the exercise.
Next time they'll make it a promoted event and it will be awsum.
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
I'm sure they didn't want to tell anyone because nobody EVER says where Air Force 1 is going and what it is doing as a matter of security protocol. This was just a really bad exercise of that security because they didn't consider the context on the ground.
I'm sure the wingnut haters will call it Obama's failure and bad judgement. . but this is one of those routine things. . . like training flights. . that don't exactly need the Presidents personal judgment to happen.
The 747 was followed by a F-16. If it was hijacked the airliner would be shot down before it could crash into a skyscraper. It would actually be more dangerous to rush out into the street where flaming debris could rain down. But hey, humans as a group aren't known for their rationality or intelligence.
especially in large groups...the collective IQ tends to drop...
As for the fly by over Manhattan...the genius who came up with the idea to keep it hush hush needs to find a new career.
F-16 Pilots know as well as anyone who thinks it over. . . that a flaming 747 wreck crashing into a building or the ground will do just about as much damage as an intact 747 doing the same thing. In fact, an intact 747 aimed at one building might actually contain the wreck better than an uncontrolled, fireball shoot down crash that spreads fuel and debris over several city blocks and buildings.
Logically, the fighter pilot would hold his/her shot as much as possible waiting for a clear crash site unless the plane demonstrated a definite point of no return threat to a target. Even then, they would need to decide between the fate of the target and the fate of thousands of people effected by a larger urban crash site.
People could see where the 747 was in relation to the skyscrapers and if it had been hijacked it clearly could've been shot down over the water.
I agree that the flaming wreckage of a shot down airliner might cause as much damage, it of course might not. That's why fighter planes are now being sent up if a plane isn't doing what it should be.
If a 747 is shot down and sets some buildings on fire but they don't collapse and the damage is essentially on the outside, that's potentially preferable to the hijacked plane getting flown into the weakest point of a skyscraper.
who didnt plan it
what Air Force One looks like.
Air Force 1 markings were not visible to those on the ground..
I dare you to be able to read and tell me the airline livery of any jet from that distance...
I can usually tell what airline or nation a big aircraft belongs to at about the same distance I can tell when kind of plane it is. It's not that hard -- aircraft liveries tend to use large blocks of bold color in order to easily recognizable at a distance.
It looks like a big Fedex plane.
I can't understand why they wouldn't just let the citizens of NY and environs know in adavnce. Then, instead of panicking, they might have thought it was kinda cool.
Obviously these people were not thinking!!!!
"If the US government enforced its banking laws like it did its park regulations, we wouldn't be
in this damn park in the first place." OCCUPY.!!
i am incensed by this. every son of a bitch involved in coordinating this photo op needs to be fired immediately. that no one anywhere along the line thought to step back and say, 'uh, no' is beyond mystifying and almost frightening. and this is a fucking public information outfit!
No doubt people should be fired over this- but is it a shock that Repugs (such as 2 local right wing radio blowhards) blame this on Pres Obama, and want his resignation?
I'm sure a demand for impeachment hearings will follow.....
Yes Obama should resign.
This is far worse than the illegal invasion of a foreign country, setting up a series of black prisons planet-wide, breaking US laws against torture, and spying on law-abiding citizens.
(snark)
"If the US government enforced its banking laws like it did its park regulations, we wouldn't be
in this damn park in the first place." OCCUPY.!!
Thats about the worst crime there is!
Where was Dick Cheney? His idea of fun? (Get a few of my buddies to scare the crap out of librul NY.)
"If the US government enforced its banking laws like it did its park regulations, we wouldn't be
in this damn park in the first place." OCCUPY.!!
We know that the GOPers stacked the deck .
Maybe this a Cheney move to make Obama and his admin look bad.
I certainly wouldn't put it past him/them.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
Excellent questions, Edwin.
This has Cheney written all over it.
I was joking... yet these days...
Things aren't always what they seem. Actually, these days, they rarely are.
"If the US government enforced its banking laws like it did its park regulations, we wouldn't be
in this damn park in the first place." OCCUPY.!!
Doesn't it?
I mean the shoe fits.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
My mind always goes to this place first-- every story.
"If the US government enforced its banking laws like it did its park regulations, we wouldn't be
in this damn park in the first place." OCCUPY.!!
I'm dead serious. My first thoughts are always, "Who would stand to benefit most from this?"
That's how America works, in case you haven't noticed. Laws are quaint.
"If the US government enforced its banking laws like it did its park regulations, we wouldn't be
in this damn park in the first place." OCCUPY.!!
Laws are quaint
Not if good people like Johnathan Turley can get the floor for his 15 minutes of fame. So far it's been hard to get real lawyers and law enforcement on TV.
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
It's my snark. I have dry snark. Like my humour is dry and so is my snark.
I'm all for upholding laws. Well, most laws. (I have some trouble with the war on drugs.)
"If the US government enforced its banking laws like it did its park regulations, we wouldn't be
in this damn park in the first place." OCCUPY.!!
"Borderline"
Really?
obviously.
As a NYer who was there on 9/11 I can honestly say every time there is a fireworks show, low flying plane or another unexpected loud sound the first thing that pops into my head is "not again." Does this make me a wuss? No. It's a rational fear. And you questioning the bravery of NYers who still live and work in a city that's been attacked twice is not just insulting but mean.
Hopefully humanity will one day learn to be humane.
Thanks, Git. And as a New Yorker who worked downtown for 30+ years and was there that morning, I know and agree with all that you've said. And if Evet and the others who think that we should've reacted "normally," recognizing the markings of AFOne, for instance, well, you weren't there -- not that day or the succeeding weeks, trying to go back to that "normal" life -- and you don't really know enough to give any advice.
Yes, it makes you a wuss. It's not a rational fear. Stop wetting the damn bed.
This is really not a very well thought out criticism of New Yorkers.
Big giant planes don't fly low over Manhattan. It's just not done. The last time a plane flew that low it was crashing into the Hudson. . . the time before that it was crashing into the WTC.
Do you get it now? These people in Manhattan were cowards only in the same sense as people in a military installation when someone yells "INCOMING!!"
Authorities were notified. I guess those authorities forgot to do something more than just read and listen.
The event was as dumb as forcing wheelchair bound geriatrics from Omaha to remove their shoes at airport security checks. The fuel and personnel costs should be deducted from Caldera's paycheck or he should be fired.
Bush Co left this country in.
Exactly! Mrs. LOST (she of the tremendous talent in graphic arts and all things digital) has a standing, open offer to handle all of its "photo opp"needs for half the cost of the fuel to get that big bird from DC to NYC,all with the help of Adobe's application. Somebody pulled a "Brownie" and needs to go.
Whether or not you think this is a big deal, I think we can all agree this is the kind of screw up an employee should be fired over.
Question is: How fast and with how little BS will the Obama admin admit to who screwed up?
Personally I think its taking too long. They say they're going to have an inquiry. I call BS on that all already. How can Obama either not already know, or not be able to find out what happened with a couple of phone calls?
Obama should have removed from the chain of command.
Some stuff you can't make up!
Terrific!
(literally)
They've just succeeded in making "Mission Accomplished" the second most disastrously counter-productive photo-op in history.
Morons!
http://the-billablog.blogspot.com/
but you can run in terror from fear.
Actually, the people in New York on 9/11 did run from death, literally. They have every right to be terrified.
id just bet thier was a run on toilet paper and people pooper scoopers , jesus people are such fear prone droids!
probably 04 was the edge of the cliff
Ever had two planes crash into your neighbor? Ever watched your city become engulfed in clouds of debris and dust from a few hundred stories of building collapsing? Ever been present and seen it with your own eyes, felt it, run from it?
No?
As someone who has all I can say to you is FU.
Hopefully humanity will one day learn to be humane.
On Sept. 13, 2003, without telling the media or the public, the Seattle Seahawks hired a few military jets to do a flyover of their new stadium. It was a weekend and I was taking a nap when suddenly I heard the thunder of military jets flying very low (under a low cloud layer) over my house about 13 miles southeast of downtown Seattle.
I knelt up on my bed and pulled the curtains aside and saw them, and started shaking and crying and couldn't stop. I ran outside and found others in the street looking up; some others were as scared as I was. Someone called 911, but the operator didn't know anything about it. Eventually the fighter jets left. I normally would have also called 911 and the TV stations' news departments, but I was too upset to call anyone. All I could do was cry and feel yet again the overwhelming grief and sorrow that it had taken months to work through before.
The next day we found out what had really happened. I sent a very angry e-mail to the Seahawks, but no one was fired; there were lame apologies.
There are certain events in our lives that maintain an emotional closeness. Bryan Williams said on Olbermann tonight that he spoke with NYC firefighters this week and as he spoke of Sept. 11, "in that quiet hall it was 10 minutes ago." Two years after Sept. 11, it was still 10 minutes ago to me, too.
I liked it when Jon Stewart did his piece on this flyover and started to climb across his desk, saying, "Okay, now I'm going to fucking kill you!" to those responsible. No, I wasn't in New York City on Sept. 11, but it seared my soul too, and I hope it sinks into the hearts of those who did this incredibly stupid and insensitive thing just what they've done.
I'm a Staten Islander, witnessed 9-11 from across the harbor. But my 2 kids went to school in lower Manhattan and saw everything (my son witnessed bodies falling so close that he could tell you the color of the men's ties). Both my daughter, recovering from having her legs run over by a bus (yup)3 months prior & could barely walk, and my son were both alone and scared as Manhattan was locked down. Terrified and frustrated, we could not get in from Staten Island to get them since everything was locked down. My kids could not get home. Luckily, they were able to meet up and had each other for comfort as they walked the deserted, debris strewn, dusty & contaminated streets of lower Manhattan trying to make their way down to the ferry. But I was lucky. Although a family member worked directly across the street from the WTC, he escaped unscathed, altho he lost many friends in the Towers' collapse. Personally, I know 5 people who died that day, 4 were firefighters. None of their bodies were ever recovered. Their families buried empty coffins. I know of no family on Staten Island that either didn't lose a family member, neighbor, coworker, or friend. Traumatized? You bet. The scars are still fresh. I can't look at a cloudless clear blue nyc sky without thinking it's a 9-11 day. The ridicule expressed here by a few is absolutely despicable, deplorable and disappointing. I expected better of fellow Progressives. That kind of talk is more typical of a Rethug. Don't judge us unless and until you've been through it. And I pray you never will.
to be impacted. My ex-husband (with whom I'm still friends) was supposed to have a lunch meeting at the restaurant on the top floor of the WTC that afternoon. I turned on the tellie in Britain just in time to watch the second tower fall - and spent an agonizing half hour with a fantastic British telephone operator who stayed on the line with me and kept trying every line she could until I could get through to where he was staying. I spoke with him very briefly, just long enough to find out he was safe, and hung up because I knew there must have been thousands of other ex-pat Americans desperate to contact people they loved.
One of my best friends lost her cousin in the attack, and another's son watched people jumping from buildings. He got a ferry back to Staten Island where he lived, while watching things he couldn't have imagined floating in the water. He started drinking that night and hasn't stopped since. My own cousin's husband was working in a building across from the WTC, and witnessed much of the attack and aftermath. He decided to move out of NYC to Washington, just in time to be caught up in the Anthrax attack as well.
There is no one who hasn't been touched by the attack, whether we were there or not. I doubt I'd have had much of a different reaction were I in New York and saw a large passenger airliner followed by two military jets flying low over the city than many who were there and frightened. That was a singularly stupid and thoughtless thing to have done, Obama has every right - and every New Yorker has every right - and every bloody last American anywhere in the world has every right - to be incredibly pissed off.
I doubt there's going to be any 'Yer Doin' a Great Job, Brownie' moment in someone's future...
See my post above on this. Big planes just DON'T fly that low over Manhattan unless something terrible is about to happen. This was a legitimate reason to run for cover.
It's disappointing to see the mocking tone of some comments here.
While the Bushies may have played the fear card utterly shamelessly, that doesn't make it cool to mock those who are genuinely and legitimately traumatised.
You wouldn't yell "Bang!" behind a war veteran and then make fun of him for being startled, would you?
C'mon folks, show some compassion.
http://the-billablog.blogspot.com/
Maybe that's the real issue.
from within and without.. got any ideas?
.
voice of reason.
Some stuff you can't make up!
As someone who was there that day, the commenters making fun of the "fear" NYers displayed obviously don't understand the impact experiencing such an event.
Hopefully humanity will one day learn to be humane.
I agree. Mocking New Yorkers is the last thing anyone should do. I was also there that day. . and all the emotional reactions to this are justified. . but it's more than just 9/11 at play here. Seeing a big giant plane flying that low from Manhattan is not an every day event.
More people in the US died of the flu last January than have died in terrorist attacks in the US in my *lifetime*. If you are scared to terrorism in the US, you're a bedwetting weenie and deserve to be publicly mocked.
I'm thinking anybody who buys into this being merely a "photo-op" should question the "why" of it. Why now? For what purpose? Archival footage makes no sense as the president wasn't aboard.
Why now and for what purpose are the questions that media should be demanding answers to. And who, specifically, authorized it?
You've got Cheney publicly bloviating over the past few weeks more often than any of us have seen him over the past eight years, warning of imminent non-domestic originated terrorist threats that he argues he and the previous administration insulated us from (the least likely source of domestic terrorism action, btw); a potential "pandemic" being brought to light mere days before, which Rumsfield invested heavily in the pharmco producing the vaccine; and, finally, the whole "illegals" issue on which to lay blame and foment even further, nonsensical outrage.
Why fly an Air Force One low over Manhattan? Who gains most from doing so, and to what end?
Brian Williams was naive tonight on Olbermann insinuating otherwise.
Interesting point.
http://the-billablog.blogspot.com/
It seems to me it was meant to refresh a few memorys, Have you Forgotten? Blows my mind still......
NOT telling bloomberg is nothing less than stupid. to put blame on obama is ridiculous. obama is obviously pissed. gibbs said they will review what happened. let's let them do the review.
This was an idiotic idea from the get go. Why again do we need a photo of this? Why no one could let New Yorkers know in advance that an airplane would be flying overhead is just plumb dumb. I mean isn't this the reason why Photoshop was invented, to imagine how an object could appear in a place where it is not supposed to be?
Is the FAA that ignorant of the fact that many New Yorkers are still traumatized by the last incident that involved planes and their fair city?
This are clearly both pre-photoshop and a pre-9/11 policies. There was certainly a day when it was necessary to fly the plane in front of the skyline and the statue to get that great image. We are way past that now with digital technology but the outdated policies in our government haven't changed because the money isn't coming out of the decision-maker's pockets.
I'm sure the reason they kept it secret was to protect Airforce 1. Nobody ever says where that plane is going or where it will be. It's a basic security measure. Unfortunately, it is security that isn't considering it's impact on the ground. . . but it is a logical policy, in general.
In both of these cases we are talking about plane old bureaucratic bungling and waste. It is the kind of every day decisions, like flight exercises, that happen without much need for the President to get deeply involved. Obama should grab this opportunity and use it as an example of why he's getting more involved and going over the budget line by line to find this kind of stuff.
Bloomberg was told, the Chief of Police was told, the FBI was told. They were all told but were threatened with sanctions if they disclosed the "flyover". This could have been done via Photoshop. I question the reasons given and the use of Air Force One. The government deserves the mistrust people have towards it's actions. And I do not trust or believe their explanations for this. There is more to it.
.
Dude! Read something besides M&M's.....
http://wcbstv.com/topstories/air.force.one.2....
it did not slip, the hat was too tight.
and only the police were told, not the mayor. and the police were made to keep the secret, as conveyed by reports I have seen.
Some stuff you can't make up!
http://wcbstv.com/topstories/air.force.one.2....
The memo......
FAA Memo: Feds Knew NYC Flyover Would Cause Panic
Threatened Federal Sanctions Against NYPD, Secret Service, FBI & Mayor's Office If Secret Ever Got Out
it helps, idiot
Some stuff you can't make up!
"In a memo obtained by CBS 2 HD the Federal Aviation Administration's James Johnston said the agency was aware of "the possibility of public concern regarding DOD (Department of Defense) aircraft flying at low altitudes" in an around New York City. But they demanded total secrecy from the NYPD, the Secret Service, the FBI and even the mayor's office and threatened federal sanctions if the secret got out."
The context helps, too....Idiot#1
that's chainey's job
Some stuff you can't make up!
Including Obama..... He has two airplanes at his disposal and has to be informed of their whereabouts at all times. Everytime a wheel turns on one of those planes he knows... So to say that he didn't have knowledge of this event is pure b.s.
Next time, photoshop.
Who ever that PR board is needs fired, today. Who ever made the plans for this needs removed from their job. Must have been a republican. Get rid of the asshole.
Fear is the mind killer
I've been grooving to that for a few days now. I just discovered Adam Freeland. GREAT!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFP1ZYXaGj4
"If the US government enforced its banking laws like it did its park regulations, we wouldn't be
in this damn park in the first place." OCCUPY.!!
I just laughed. I mean no disrespect to anyone, but this made me laugh (just the absurdity of it all).
Palm to face moment.
into place now to protect people from their fears.
torture!
Damn it, someone beat me to the thought.....
The USA is no longer a country, it's the world's biggest circus. No need to feel ashamed (at seeing the absurdity).
"If the US government enforced its banking laws like it did its park regulations, we wouldn't be
in this damn park in the first place." OCCUPY.!!
That just makes us part of the international community. The rest of the world is as much of a circus, so we're finally joining in. Or maybe we're just realizing we never really left said circus: we were always part of it.
We need to re-discover the capacity to laugh at ourselves.
Life is too f*cking short, we need to learn to just chill the f*ck out. This country is wound too tight me thinks sometimes.
We're really f**k*d up.
Where nationalsim is strong, people don't laugh at their country.
Here in Korea, they have absolutely ZERO sense of humour about their country-- zero. I call them the Borg.
"If the US government enforced its banking laws like it did its park regulations, we wouldn't be
in this damn park in the first place." OCCUPY.!!
The weakness of the diamond is it's rigidity.
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5I2KFENjS8
a fucking booshchainey holdover.
that's what Obama gets for keeping the booshies around.
Some stuff you can't make up!
to cause panic, to keep 9/11 fresh on everyone's mind.
When people are jittery and afraid, they don't think clearly.
Bingo.
Manhattan needs therapy. they should make fly overs a regular thing do de-sensitize people, before the next wacko flys a plane into something.
Is Manhattan still a no-fly zone or something?
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
Desensitize people for the next wacko?
yes, so there is less panic - just in that sense - i'm not suggesting the best way to do that is by flying big airplanes between buildings as regular excericise, but Manhattan needs, we all need to be prepared to not panic. i't's probably not a matter of if, but when for all the scenarios.
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
unless you have some certification as a therapist, please STFU. I watched the fucking buildings fall down. You need a flyover, move near an airport.
Some stuff you can't make up!
No certificate, just a fear that the repugs are going to balistic on the next false flag.
I guess Manhattan is a total no fly zone then, is it? That makes sense i guess.
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
You don't normally see big planes flying that low over Manhattan unless they are about to crash. That's for certain.
Is that like torture people until it's just a routine operation? Nothing to worry about.
"If the US government enforced its banking laws like it did its park regulations, we wouldn't be
in this damn park in the first place." OCCUPY.!!
Ya, i guess planes should be forbidden near ground zero alright. and regular fly overs would be out of the question.
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
I'm not sure how to avoid panic, but it's something to think about.
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
The entire episode would have been quite different if the public was in on it. They could have then also decided if they wanted to pay for it.
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
People might have even gone outside to watch on their lunch hour, if they knew it was a photo-op with AF1, and ENTIRELY safe.
"If the US government enforced its banking laws like it did its park regulations, we wouldn't be
in this damn park in the first place." OCCUPY.!!
and Obama take the hit for keeping that booshchainey scum on the payroll. obama should have totally cleaned house.
Some stuff you can't make up!
If it was a buschCo person in charge i wouldn't put it past them, especially if he's been in contact with darth cheney lately... Hmm...
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
OMG, can anyone be so evil? I'm in tears here, feeling it all again -- can anyone tell me why anyone would have done this deliberately?
to remind the sheeple that they are NEVER safe. To keep that fear boiling. Fake "photo ops" on top of flu pandemics on top of financial meltdown on top of non-existent terrorists, keep the sheep from looking too closely at what's really happening in their world. When people are afraid, most don't use their rational mind. That's what the power brokers count on. Keep the people afraid of what's in the right hand and slip them a knife with the left hand.
.
Some stuff you can't make up!
needs to be dealt with severely..
FAA Memo: Feds Knew NYC Flyover Would Cause Panic
Threatened Federal Sanctions Against NYPD, Secret Service, FBI & Mayor's Office If Secret Ever Got Out
Some stuff you can't make up!
I think the 'mistake' was not telling!
"To say that it should not be made public knowing that it might scare people it's just confounding," Sen. Charles Schumer said. "It's what gives Washington and government a bad name. It's sheer stupidity."
Who gave the orders not to tell?!
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
So why did the FAA want to keep their fly in and around a secret?Because other nut jobs might get in the way of the FAA's nut jobbery? Perhaps, I guess, but how did those people get and keep their jobs?
And why would the NYPD, Secret Service, FBI and Mayor's Office keep the the FAA nut jobs' secret? Why? Knowingly terrorize citizens for an unnecessary photo op? Why?
The amount of incompetence necessary is truely incredible. Incompetence doesn't explain it.
Seriously, there are only two answers:
1) Sabotage from a Bush holdover
2) An extremely mentally impaired human being who ought to be placed in a hospital, after they've been promptly relieved of their post
...both of your answers are *not* mutually exclusive. Wouldn't any Bush holdover equal a "mentally impaired human being who ought to be placed in a hospital, after they've been promptly relieved of their post"???? ;)
There are two more answers:
1) Overly tight security about the location and activities of Airforce 1 & 2.
2) Bureaucratic polices that are wasteful holdovers from the pre-photoshop, pre-9/11 era.
WTF is wrong with you people? You weren't there - with a 747 barnstorming lower Manhattan, engines screaming, with fighters trailing it - so you don't have a clue as to what your reaction would have been to that. You folks commenting about how frightened everyone was as if it is something to sneer at - you conveniently seem to have misplaced your capacity to imagine what it would be like to have that crap right over your head - with people around you starting to panic - your contribution is to get on the internet and mock them? WTF is your major malfunction?!
If you had been in Manhattan on 911 - as many of those office workers were - you probably wouldn't be so busy spewing your derision over how they got scared when a 747 comes tearing by their windows in a giant freaky deja-vu moment. Or you could just be emotionally retarded and empathy challenged - and make fun of the scared people.
Whomever signed off on this 'photo op' had better be shit-canned pronto, the lack of judgment and imagination needed to screw up this bad is staggering - also anyone who was in a position to inject a little common sense by way of thinking 'hmmm, I wonder what anyone on the ground might think when we ruffle their hair with a 747?' and 'gee whiz - on a beautiful spring day do you think tourists and residents might be outside visiting the parks and the 911 memorial when our giant screaming passenger jet comes straight at them?' and 'PHOTOSHOP - what's that? - oh you mean the computer thingee that makes burning a shitload of jet fuel, putting wear and tear on VERY expensive airplanes, field/operation pay/costs for pilots/flight crews/maintenance/cleaning crew/photographers/flaks/administrators/directors/and a long list of additional people who have to be paid a lot of money to pull off a barnstorming joy ride in air force one - you mean Photoshop would have made all of that expense unnecessary just to get a publicity photo....maybe we should do THAT'. Whomever could have and should have pointed out the obvious stupidity and huge downsides to the plan they enacted should be cleaning out their desk - or at least get a reprimand and reassignment to Alaska or wherever they send the stupidest fuck-ups.
These commenters glibly mocking those who evacuated and attributing it to how paranoid and stupid/scared Americans are NEED TO WAKE UP. I'm not ashamed to admit that if it were me, if I was in NYC and looked out the window of an office building and I saw a 747 trailed by fighter jets flying strangely low, well... I would be looking for the closest exit... and get the fuck outta my way, asshole!... TYVM...
It's not a videogame. It's not some action flick. If I saw a jet flying that low, especially given the history, I wouldn't think twice about saying "adios" to my coworkers and calling it an early day as my ass was already out the door.
I think the callous and sickening lack of empathy is disgusting. If you have some derision to pass onto somebody, some snarky comments to direct at people, save it for the idiots who approved this fiasco (and the possible neocon/cheney connection others are pointing at), not the innocent victims of it.
How sad that many of you trivialize the genuine fear and trauma of FELLOW MEN AND WOMEN because it fits your "Bush has conditioned us to be afraid" shit. Who fucking cares if we are uber-conditioned, at least when it comes to this one event? It was a 747! for fuck's sake. That's one big bastard that I want no part of unless I'm on the inside of one, or entering/exiting. If you want to discuss who was really responsible for this and why, that is one thing... but, if you're going to get off on attacking those who just responded as probably 99.9% of us would, well fuck off.
Staring down the wrong end of a jet of that size in a city where two jets slammed into some skyscrapers = terrifying. Conditioned or not, the office workers responded sanely and rationally. They were thinking a helluva lot clearer than some of you unfeeling assholes obviously are....
several times. You can't let fear dominate your life.
addressed the healing process. never ever. from boosh to whitman all they ever did was photo op and lie.
Some stuff you can't make up!
Not to me.
It was indifference and malice.
Some stuff you can't make up!
>I've narrowly escaped death more then
>Tue, 04/28/2009 - 21:32 — Evet
>several times. You can't let fear dominate your life.
I hardly see how panicking at the sight of a 747, trailed by fighter jets, unannounced, flying *very* low across the skyline of Manhattan is the same as allowing fear to *dominate* one's life. Just because you've narrowly escaped death and apparently don't flinch in the face of anything dangerous doesn't mean it's reasonable to expect the same from the rest of us.
If a car jumps a curb and almost hits somebody, and they stand there shaking and clearly flustered, would you honestly walk up and say "I've narrowly escaped death more than several times. You can't let fear dominate your life."?????
I would hope not, because if that was your initial reaction (or even subsequent), I find little difference between that mentality and the "pull yourself up by your bootstrap" neocon crap we hear all the time...
Ya, i see by the video they basically buzz-bombed the area several times. That's definately a red alert situation. How could they not know that? They are supposed to know how people will react to various situations. Isn't that their job? That makes finding out who ordered the exercise to be secret important. This could have been deliberate alright.
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
As far as I'm concerned, New Yorkers were exercising about as much fear as soldiers do when someone shouts "INCOMING!!".
I lived and/or worked in Manhattan for 9 years. You just DON'T see big airplanes flying that low over that part of the city unless something really bad is happening. Period.
You don't even need 9/11 to feel a reasonable need to run for cover.
.
there are a few who I'd like to buzz with my personal f14
Some stuff you can't make up!
and I didn't see anything too harmful... unless those people are the same ones in my ignore list, which may be a possibility. And thus I have no idea what they said.
goes well beyond the pale...
the notion that we just need to train ourselves not to panic is also fairly insensitive/alarming. You can't desensitize people to things like jet engines barreling down on top of them... at least not those who were alive and watched, and watched, and watched the images of 9/11 (or, indeed, witnessed them in person on that horrible day).
Any human would have a physical response of severe anxiety/panic if a jet that size suddenly appeared. Their heart would skip a beat, eyes would widen, a chill would go up their spine, etc. It would be a gut, involuntary thing that I doubt everything except the most extreme forms of conditioning would cure.
Now, add to that the collective memory we all share vis a vis jets hitting skyscrapers. You cannot "condition" that away... or, at least you can't via any method that I would care to be a part of. Clockwork Orange-ish "don't worry, be happy"-training. No thank you!
Just as I have a right to think rationally, if a goddamn 747 appears and I have no idea why it's there, and I just so happen to be in MANHATTAN, I am going to be alarmed and I have a right to be panicked... If people want to dismiss and deride that because it's "not logical," then they can kiss my ass. I still live in a reality where limbic emotions and reptilian flight/fight responses still govern a part of who I am, however much those lower order brain functions might lead me astray and, yes, make me (and those like me) susceptible to fear-mongering politicians.
I figure a little panic has worked for humans for thousands of years, thought admittedly it screws us over too, but this notion that we can desensitize ourselves to the world around us is especially grotesque. I am a human being, damnit. I think (hopefully most of the time), I feel (though I like to pretend it doesn't influence my judgment all that much), and I survive (thanks to this pesky brain stem thing that kinda has a mind, or lack thereof, of its own). I won't ignore 1/3 of what I am, nor should those office workers who fled terrified. If I look up and see immediate, grave danger that I have only a few seconds to respond to it... whatever the fuck my BODY/REFLEXES/INSTINCTS decide to do is probably about as good as I'm going to get. To anybody who has ever really lived through a moment like that, you realize your legs do the walking, talking, and deciding. It feels very much like you are a bystander for whole tracks of time...
Specifically, what I was railing against was an attitude that was cropping up in posts... almost a condescending judgment against those of us who would actually panic, or those who did. What I want to know is which type of individual would worry all of you more: the guy/gal who freaks the fuck out and runs for the hills, or the guy/gal who looks up, checks out the 747 + fighter jets + panicking colleagues... yawns, then ho-hummedly gets back to filing their TPS reports?
Which is more "sane" to you? Which do you want a country full of? Human or "fear-immune droids"? To be honest, I will take the insanely afraid person every time because that is REAL, that is human, and that doesn't hold to some vicious idea that ignoring feelings and instincts automatically makes us "better"/braver Americans.
A 747 accompanied by a fighter jet = get INSIDE the building, because the jet is going to shoot down the plane BEFORE it hits a skyscraper, and flaming wreckage and jet fuel is more likely to kill you if you're in the street.
A 747 sans fighter jet = run out of the building and into a subway station.
Fighter pilots aren't going to automatically shoot down a 747 over an urban area. It could hit several buildings and possibly cause more damage and death than any controlled crash the plane could do into a specific target.
The pilot would need to make a calculation based on exactly what he was seeing and the decision could go either way.
The proper reaction for anyone in Manhattan seeing a plane flying that low, with or without a fighter jet, is to assume it will crash, get out of buildings and find deeper cover.
Blaming fear on Bush/Cheney brainwashing is just silly. There's a difference between being paranoid and reliving a traumatic experience.
Anybody who's been through a major quake knows that it doesn't take much to get your heart racing, even a bus going by and shaking the house can do it.
I'm sure we all have our triggers, but only if you've lived through something as horrific as planes smashing into buildings blocks from where you work can you really know what it was like.
I think of it as similar to some sensory experience bringing back a memory... the smell of Carmex reminding me of my early snowboarding trips. For New Yorkers, I expect the sight and sounds of a jumbo jet barnstorming over their buildings brings all the memories and emotions of 9/11 come flooding back, making them all too real.
We're mocking the fear because we've seen our country destroyed by the same kind of irrational fear of terrorism displayed by all the people howling about how damn scared they are. Those people need to be mocked until they STFU and stop wrecking the country.
And you know what I would have done? Looked out the damn window, noticed that the aircraft was painted in AF-1 colors, wondered idly what it was up to, and gone back to work.
Boys playing with their expensive toys. Again. I thought this was limited to the former maladministration. All the stupidity and arrogance have yet to be cleaned out. Well, here's a clue where more than a feather-duster will be needed. Try a shovel.
Time for Obama to have the incompetents who did this hand over the keys and clean out the desk.
And what is this publicity crap? What? A jet used to transport the President around is used for what publicity, exactly? The only thing publicized is the low IQ in the entire chain of command.
What wasteful nonsense.
I understand the anger from New Yorkers, but I'm more angered by the wastefulness. This clusterflight is an embarrassment, coming barely a week or so after Obama's big "let's cut $100 million in spending" confab.
Clearly this is Obama's fault (and reason #34,562 why we shouldn't have elected him).
Now BushCo, they knew how to protect Manhattan from low flying planes...
I think this was a clear message to Obama from Cheney. The obvious was to gin up fear and panic so Americans will not feel safe which would make Cheney right. The subliminal was having the air force chasing Air Force One/Obama, the message: Obama is out of control and needs to be reined in/shot down. Hopefully Cheney will leave this world soon and burn in hell....
I think this is the best explanation for me.
And for people who are saying that panicking people should "stop and think" and try to rationalize the situation, you know that when you are full of fear or any other emotion that your ability to think critically goes out the window. So, please, have a little empathy to the NYers.
If a drone kills a child in Kandahar, do the crying parents make a sound?
... but consider the above conspiracy theory the "best explanation", a better explanation than simple bureaucratic bumbling and wasteful spending?
I think you may just be correct there.
Or, it could just be bureaucratic waste based on policies before Photoshop and 9/11 combined with overly cautious security about the location and activities of Airforce 1 and 2.
::shrug::
in that video. Is that hardly anyone in the group of people had the where with all to stop and think about it or at least reserve a small portion of their mind to think that maybe it was benign. No they are all terrified because they have not only been programmed by OBL on 9/11 but also were programmed over the last 8 years by the Bush/Cheney administration.
Or they were "programmed" by 2 airliners plowing into 2 skyscrapers, bringing the landmarks to the ground and markedly, permanently altering the city skyline.
Or the simple fact that giant airplanes don't benignly buzz Manhattan. You never, ever, see them that close up from that part of the city unless they are about to crash into the Hudson. . or worse.
"Is that hardly anyone in the group of people had the where with all to stop and think about it or at least reserve a small portion of their mind to think that maybe it was benign."
To be fair, I can understand why people in the video posted here may have panicked. That was shot on the shore of the Hudson River in Jersey City. It's noticable as such due to the giant Colgate clock landmark there. What you don't see is that the clock happens to be right next to the tallest building in NJ.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldman_Sachs_Tower
At the same time, having lived in this metro area since before the 9/11 attacks and after, yeah, I think the panic was a bit uncalled for and is probably being exaggerated by the press. If it was as bad as some are making it out to be, there would have been injuries related to the chaos in either Manhattan or Jersey City. They aren't exactly traffic free zones. Additionally, when the plane landed in the Hudson, I didn't hear of any "terrorist" themed panic. Some of my friends and family that live and work over in Hell's Kitchen watched it happen from their buildings.
Regardless, Photoshop has been an industry standard for well over a decade. With or without the panic, there's no way that photo shot was worth the $300k price tag for some "Airforce 1 Calendar" or whatever is being planned. Quite a stupid move in a number of ways.
that is the stupidest and most offensive comment I have ever read on this site. How could you not understand the rational fear of New Yorkers and realize how incredibly stupid this decision was. It's beyond stupid. This level of incompetence can't exist, can it? I suppose your first thought would have been, "OH this must just be a photo op, Why else would an F-16 be trailing this giant plane flying where it shouldn't be?"
My first thought wasn't that it was terroism either. At some point in our existance as a country we have to get over it and get back to normal. Regardless of the past.
Did you see it happen live or on the news when you knew it wasn't a terrorist event?
Do you live or work in Manhattan? Do you know what people do and don't see and expect from the sky in Manhattan? It doesn't need to be terrorism. I used to live there. There was clearly the appearance of some kind of major emergency situation that people just don't normally see.
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