This Is What It Comes Down To: Lieberman Is A Spiteful Little Toad Who Will Kill Health-Care Reform.
So it comes down to this: Joe "I Don't Know How Anybody Can Decide Until You See The Actual Language" Lieberman got his widdle feelings hurt, and so Joe will do anything to get back at the mean liberals who hurt his feelings - even if it means hundreds of thousands of people have to die without health care.
Doesn't that make him a sociopath? And doesn't that make the Democrats co-conspirators?
The Huffington Post and Roll Call are both reporting that Joe Lieberman notified Harry Reid that he will filibuster health-care reform if the final bill includes an expansion of Medicare. Previously, Lieberman had been cool to the idea, saying he wanted to make sure it wouldn't increase the deficit or harm Medicare's solvency. That comforted some observers, as the CBO is expected to say it will do neither. Someone must have given Lieberman a heads-up on that, as he's decided to make his move in advance of the CBO score, the better to make sure the facts of the policy couldn't impede his opposition to it.
To put this in context, Lieberman was originally invited to participate in the process that led to the Medicare buy-in. His opposition would have killed it before liberals invested in the idea. Instead, he skipped the meetings and is forcing liberals to give up yet another compromise. Each time he does that, he increases the chances of the bill's failure that much more. And it's hard to imagine there's a policy rationale here, as he decided against even bothering to wait for the CBO's analysis before moving against this idea. At this point, Lieberman is just torturing liberals. That is to say, he's willing to directly cause the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people in order to settle an old electoral score.
[...] The final path would be to try the reconciliation, the parliamentary procedure that would allow Democrats to pass chunks of health care reform by a simple up or down vote. There are a host of hurdles that come with going down this route, including questions over what, exactly, could be passed. And at this point both the White House and Reid's office seem hesitant to use the procedural tool, even after Lieberman's latest round of opposition.
Reid could also try and find another compromise, but it's not clear there are many of those left. And at this point, the underlying dynamic seems to be that Lieberman will destroy any compromise the left likes. That, in fact, seems to be the compromise: Lieberman will pass the bill if he can hurt liberals while doing so. From Lieberman's perspective, the compromise is killing the compromise.
Chris Bowers points out the Democrats have put Holy Joe in this position:
Nothing Lieberman is doing would be possible without the ongoing support of the majority of the Democratic caucus. If Democratic Senators wanted to punish Lieberman for his consistent transgressions against the party, they could. If Democrats wanted to use reconciliation, and just circumvent him altogether, they could do that, too. But they are not going to do either.
As such, Lieberman is simply taking the power that is being handed to him by the rest of the caucus. Since he knows that Senate Democrats won't ever punish him, and won't ever circumvent him, he now has free reign to dictate whatever legislation he wants, get tons of face time with the White House and Senate leadership, regularly be the top story on news outlets around the country, receive millions in campaign contributions, and appease his Republican base (at this point, most of Lieberman's supporters are Republicans). It is a great deal for Lieberman, and it would not be possible without the ongoing consent of the majority of the Democratic Senate caucus.
Since we have already defeated Lieberman in a Democratic primary, there is clearly nothing more as progressive activists to threaten Lieberman. What we need to start doing is taking action against the Democrats who enable Lieberman and his ilk. If other Senate Democrats are not going to do anything about Lieberman taking control of the entire caucus, then really, what is the difference between those other Senators and Joe Lieberman?
Never though I would echo George W. Bush, but we have reached the point where it is time to stop differentiating between problematic Senators like Joseph Lieberman and the other Senate Democrats who enable them.
People continue to call this piece of crap REFORM.
It isn't.
Robert Reich
here
statusquObama, change you can only pretend in
Health Care reform.
More like a gift to the insurance companies, or as Wendell Potter aptly named it: "The Health Insurance Company Profit Protection and Enhancement Act."
"Egotism is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of Stupidity" - Frank Leahy
I have to agree with Potter, he always tells it like it is. Congress has turned the idea of universal healthcare into a joke.
Politics is for the present, but an equation is for eternity. Albert Einstein
But you will notice that the people that POST on this blog continue to spread the meme that what Congress is doing is reform and that Liebermann is somehow more of a whore than Reid or Dodd.
Liebermann is a toad? That is responsible citizen journalism?
Don't get me wrong Ms. Mandrak...you write very well and usually are very rsponsible. You appear to be a bit upset and your emotions are clouding your otherwise good judgement.
That or you are a Democrat as opposed to a Democrat.
"MEME" = TRUTH!!!
the bill that came from the house and one "growing" in the senate are not reforms.
Thank G, he never was VP. He is an attention grabbing idiot! Who wants to stall with the republicans! Shameless!!!!
Its not "reform" and it should be "killed".
Lets hope its Bernie Sanders and Kucinich that put the fork in this fraud....Not Lieberman.
"I can't keep doing this on my own with these...people."
But if we kill it based on lies, what good is it doing any of us? We have to spend so much time correcting the record on a bill none of us really want, and we're losing ground.
In any case, I'd like to know how much money has been spent to defeat any kind of reform...
If the Dems would actually make this superannuated asshole talk and talk and talk, instead of going into duck and cover mode, he'd see that filibustering is a young man's game.
and if he kills it, they'll hate him, because they'll have to start all over again.
It's what I call a 'twofer.'
me-oww!
A healthcare bailout bill. These bills house and senate are both not reform they stop being reform very quickly.
Simpley put no mandate without a Government-run public option for all. Anything less is not reform no matter how you try and spin it.
He knows dirt on the other Dems. He has them scared, and there is nothing they can do about it. I believe he is blackmailing the leadership. The man is a viper.
Candideinnc
... we need more words in the English language to describe loathsome monsters. Vilifying various animals is unfair; toads are sweet, harmless creatures (well, except to flies) who are patient and calm and just want to live their lives in peace. Vipers ... they pretty much want to be left alone.
Monster, fiend, ogre, devil, troll, parasite...
he is a sick pathetic bastard and like all sickos [Deleted-Sitemonitor]
Only Democrats (+ 1 complete and total asshole) could argue important legislation into oblivion. Time to send this POS bill to reconciliation and give the finger to every obstructionist clown in both Houses. Fuck the Stupak ammendment or any similar language. Harry Reid, the batphone is ringing. The thinking public has seen enough!
(which I try not to do)....'Toad' is not the moniker that comes to mind....!!!
"Egotism is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of Stupidity" - Frank Leahy
i would say we should cut off lieberman's nuts, but
he has already pawned them to the health insurance
and pharmaceutical corporations.
Yeah, he probably did get a little insulted with people backing Lamont.
But this is all about $$$. Who sponsors this guy. We all know it's about the money.
Jebus, And some people wanted him to be VP.
I'll never understand that one.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
Senator Palpatine is only in love with himself and intoxicated with power.
Politics is for the present, but an equation is for eternity. Albert Einstein
"... all those with power are afraid to lose it. Even the Jedi."
Lie-berman:
"I feel relevant"
"I know that there are people who do not love their fellow
man, and I hate people like that! " ~ Tom Lehrer (1928 - )
Please don't say "widdle feelings." The proper phrase is "widdle feewings." Gosh!
Now you're talking like Brokaw, (stayed home the days following the Achille Lauro sinking)
Lieberman has always been a loathsome little toad and should have been squashed years ago.
I loath and despise that piss-poor excuse for a public servant.
'We, the People'............rimshot................hahahahahaha!
He has always been in it for himself and the the lobbyists that bribe him. The man is scum.
Two part question needs a two part answer.
Part 1: Yes.
Part 2: Only if Reid and Obama let him.
and would have one vote regardless of what caucus he belonged to. The error was not going for reconciliation from the beginning. The question is whether, having adopted the reconciliation route, Democrats could have kept 50 votes together. And it is one for which we unfortuately will probably never have an answer.
"I mean Romney is the most conservative on illegal immigration and I don't think Ronald Reagan could get elected in California today."
Ann "Clipped" Coulter
..run for Senator or not depends on how his constituents feel about what he's done for them. Letting so many of them die doesn't seem to me to be the best course of action and his opponent should seize on that immediately and beat him to death on it, figuratively speaking. However, if the Dems don't like it, F-ing do something about it! If he's going to vote against the bill, let him but don't let him do it with impunity. He's worked against you since he became a republican't; its time you let him know you're tired of his crap. If not, you all can be replaced with progressive politicians with a back bone. You or him OR YOU AND YOU..take your pick!
Mickey: "It was an epiphany. Do you know what an epipany is?"
Keoni: "NOT NOW MICKEY!"
then in results only i am for Joe.
Ain't that the painful truth.
What are the health care reformers cheering for now? Its not health care reform.
...but it's like people hearing that Obama's base is leaving him, then assuming it's because he's too liberal. I myself am a little peeved that I voted for a President and instead got a Senator.
I (and I assume many of us) only defend the recurrent form bill if it's being attacked from a position of non-reality (i.e. government takeover, death panels, longer lines, etc.), otherwise, yes, I'm more than happy to point out all of the flaws...
I feel I'm rambling. Not coffee'd up enough, yet...
It made enough sense to my under-caffeinated mind.
Obama is jumping on the cover of Lieberman just like he did with Snowe, Baucus et al, to kill meaningful hcr. As the head of the political party that controls both houses he could have wielded his power to at the minimum get a public option; instead, he used every opportunity 'conveniently' presented to him to water it down, then kill it; now the Medicare buy in. Obama is a liar and corporate toady whose only interest is in declaring a legislative "victory" and ensuring his campaign coffers are filled for 2012. The best way for him to ensure maxiumum corporate contributions is to do his role in making America the only industrialized nation with a completely private, for-profit healthcare industry borne on the backs of the overburdened middle class and working poor, with almost nothing in the way of cost controls.
Obama has already enabled Lieberman. Remember back in Nov 08, Obama was the one who said that he didn't hold any grudges against ol' Joe, and in doing so, helped him retain his Senate Chairmanship.
Think about that, and ask yourself why would anything change now? Face it, Lieberman is sitting pretty.
"Since we have already defeated Lieberman in a Democratic primary, there is clearly nothing more as progressive activists to threaten Lieberman. What we need to start doing is taking action against the Democrats who enable Lieberman and his ilk."
Shorter version. "One angry wounded wild animal is not enough. We must haz more!"
"I mean Romney is the most conservative on illegal immigration and I don't think Ronald Reagan could get elected in California today."
Ann "Clipped" Coulter
"The Truth Shall Be Revealed" . . the problem is most people don't want to face the shocking Truth when it finally is revealed . . they want to keep clinging to whatever illusion . . Change we can Believe In . . etc. . or "They are nice guys, they are just in a tough business" . . blah etc
It's a great Health Care Package! A public options in there too!
all out of hate...
need new supply
137,000 adults age 25–64 died because of uninsurance from 2000 through
2006. This represents an average of one death every 24 minutes. "What
then? If he be like to die, he had better do it, and
decrease the surplus population.”
This Is What It Comes Down To: Lieberman Is A Spiteful Little Toad Who Will Kill Health-Care Reform.
spite is note what's driving lieberman
lieberman is a republican disguised as a dem;
he votes dem when they don't need the vote, all other votes he votes republican
if the dems win the vote with or without joe he votes dem, if the dems lose the vote with or without joe can vote dem
but when the dems need his vote to pass a bill he will vote repuke
he is a judas sheep
... it's "judas goat" -- an animal of a different species who will lead sheep to slaughter. Goats are smarter than sheep; the sheep trust whoever leads them.
I'm gathering some good non-animal monster terms here: traitor, judas, scum, sociopath...
That about says it all, eh?
"I know that there are people who do not love their fellow
man, and I hate people like that! " ~ Tom Lehrer (1928 - )
to say that we wish we could wrap a lamp cord around his neck and pull until he stops thrashing? I don't want to say it if it will just get deleted.
Free Speech and all
does" . . the problem with that kind of ignorance in high places though should be obvious.
He's a sociopath, and he has no conscience. He just doesn't care.
in Washington . . care about the people first. They really do . .
I think the bill dying could be the best result now. It has become a give-away to private insurers. Billions of dollars will go to them with no real compromise but a shell game of money.
You say this is our only chance to get it started with the Dems in power? They are the ones who failed. The only way to get reform is to HURT the insurance companies and dismantle the private insurance sector. few politicians if any are willing to do that.
Take on campaign finance reform first. It should be a bigger issue than war, security or health care. because until we reign in corporate influence, all reform and change is doomed.
You are soooo right curtilingus! Without campaign reform, it is all meaningless.
to march in the streets, voice THEIR opposition to his failing to heed their voice and have him removed... immediately.
Lieberman's constituents are WellPoint, Aetna, et al. The people of Connecticut who continue to vote him in office are probably suckers for that old "I'll give you TWO quarters for that ONE dollar you have" trick. And that's coming from a KENTUCKY voter!
At the urging of Moveon, I've been trying to contact Senators Schumer and Gillibrand of NY at their DC offices. Can't get through. Can't even get through here in Rochester. Finally got through to Gillibrand's Bufalo office. The numbers are jammed as corporate sponsored right wing group has live people calling seniors and scaring them about death panels and losing their medicare, etc. under health care reform. Then they ask if they'd like to talk to one of their Senators. When they say yes, they Robocall them to one of the Senators. This has been going on, at least, since I starting trying to call on Friday.
Anyone else having this problem in other states.
Aggghhhhh!!!!!
Rachel and Keith:
rachel@msnbc.com
countdown@msnbc.com
Do you mind if I do?
but Keith's keeps coming back to me.
"Though I don't know exactly what's in it, from what I hear, I certainly would have a hard time voting for it because it has some of the same infirmities that the public option did..."
Secretly many of the democrats are thanking Lieberman - many of them really don't want health care reform and are looking for any excuse to get out of it, collect campaign contributions from the insurance companies, and save face with the public.
public financing.
Evan Bayh is probably wiping sweat from his brow.
You have to be kidding. Adding another 30-40 million to healthcare insurance would put a lot of votes in the Democratic column. That is 30-40 million people who would be very thankful to the democrats. That means something when elections are decided by only a few million votes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXkMFUCLido
"I mean Romney is the most conservative on illegal immigration and I don't think Ronald Reagan could get elected in California today."
Ann "Clipped" Coulter
That totally disproves global warming! How could we all have been so fooled?!?!?!!?!!!1111!1?!one!1...
For those of you afraid to touch ricky's link, that was Al Gore saying Joe's a stand up guy and that Reid will pull off the health care bill.
The video was from November 4 but provided a good perspective on the fact that most all politicians, even the supposed "good" ones, are just douche bags.
even if he didn't invent the internet. He remains loyal to his
annointed Prince even after the wicked liberal witches turned him into a spiteful little toad.
"I mean Romney is the most conservative on illegal immigration and I don't think Ronald Reagan could get elected in California today."
Ann "Clipped" Coulter
...Hadassah gots to get paid. Ya gotta a problem with a guy backin' up his wife?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadassah_Lieberman
"Hadassah has also worked for the lobbying company, APCO Associates, that had many pharmaceutical and healthcare corporations among its clients, as well as four major drug companies such as Pfizer. In March 2005, Hadassah was hired by Hill & Knowlton as "senior counselor" in the firm's "health care and pharmaceuticals practice." Hadassah's close relationship with pharmaceutical and healthcare corporations while her husband introduced legislation benefiting these exact companies has raised questions about improprieties and conflict of interest."
Always. Follow. The. Money.
Hill & Knowlton? The same PR firm that trained the daughter of the Kuwaiti Ambassador to the US to pretend to be a Kuwaiti "refugee" claiming to have seen Iraqi soldiers dumping Kuwaiti babies out of incubators during looting, so they could drum up support for Gulf War I? That Hill & Knowlton?
Fabulous. DC really is one big criminal enterprise.
I'd love to see the job description for "senior counselor". I bet's its something along the lines of "married to a senator."
Shouldn't the SEIU logo on the video screen actually say STFU?
Servicing Every Incumbent Union?
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/12/is...
"I mean Romney is the most conservative on illegal immigration and I don't think Ronald Reagan could get elected in California today."
Ann "Clipped" Coulter
Hadassah (Mrs. Joe) Lieberman has a history with APCO, Hill & Knowlton, and Pfizer and Joe himself has been bought and paid for for some time.
But he is nothing more than an excuse. It's why he's there. Dems could strip him of much of his power within the Senate but have refused: despite his leaving the party then actively and proudly campaigning against it and the President. This is just plain expected - as opposed to the likelihood of any punishment of Holy Joe by the party.
Chris Bowers is right: the Dems that cover for Joe Lieberman are just as bad as Joe Lieberman.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
scheifer says, "next we will have the republican side", that was the republicans side.
Despite all the hatred for what this man says and does, I have not seen any negative reflection on his religious background. I appreciate that. But I'm Jewish, I'm embarassed by him and I have the right to call Lieberman the hypocritical asshole that he is. On Sabbath he walks from temple to congress to vote (3 miles) but totally ignores the good of the people when doing so. That is a betrayal of God and is totally unacceptable. He should be ashamed of himself.
I e-mailed his office asking him to act like a mensch. I received an e-mail in return saying he could only respond to constituents. Well, he's got the entire country under his thumb. If I'm not a constituent then nobody is.
or if even that's an act-facade-front to serve his own selfish interests at this point.
Thank you for your post. I was wondering about this the other weekend.
Why anyone from any religion would act all "holy" yet go on strongly DENYING health care for those in need.
Outside of maybe a handfull of people, the vast majority of both houses are only in it for the money. Reps in the House could vote yes knowing full well the Congress would gut and skin the final legislation. Which they have done. Money talks. WellPoint, BCBS, Aetna etc., they have money and we don't so both houses can say, 'gfy'.....
At this point, the best option is to let this bill die a slow death.
... the scumbag how many bills he filibustered that directly or indirectly aided and abetted the Jewish people in Israel, and if it isn't about time that he did something for the Jews in the US, or are they all wealthy enough, or have wealthy connections to independently afford health care.
And while he's at it, there are also christians and other non-christians calling out for help.
If you need funds to pay for essentials, you have a revenue problem
If you need funds to pay for frivolity, you have a spending problem
I told you guys a week and half ago that Lieberman would break this deal.
He's two timing worm and Harry Reid is a sackless wonder.
"Anyone that makes less than $150K in this country, has no business voting Republican."
national character awaits a reunion with us . . fortitude, patience, generosity, humor. . .
But the D.C. inmates are running the asylum now it's probably going to be while.
I am not counting on the old "national character" returning at all Evet . We are terminally infested with greed , corruption , stupidity and ignorance .
Screw Lieberman, Snowe, Nelson, Landrieu, etc.
Stop screwing around and use the 50-vote reconciliation to ram through the healthcare bill.
This is no time to be nice and worry about Republican or Blue Dog sensativities.
Bush used it 5 times to push through tax cuts, reduce medicare spending, etc.
Clinton used it for welfare reform, tax cuts, .
You could easily make the arguement that healthcare is a budget issue.
poor attempt at a joke. i really do agree with what you are saying, lieberman needs to be wrung up as an example to all turncoats. i don't now or ever have seem any redeeming factors to this poor excuse. perhaps, i'm not in the know as say hillary and others who have worked alongside him and how they can see the good within him. My thought is what will it take to open people's eyes to the turncoat this lillylivered turncoat is. why is he still lauded. he will always be a thorn in the lieberal side and instead of exposing this little person for what he is, he is rather lauded. tell me why.
That is the question . It doesn't add up does it ? There is something going on that we don't know about or understand ( yet )and my bet is that it has to do corruption and the Dems not being what they appear to be ... but much worse .
As Candideinnc says above, he knows stuff about Democrats that he would publicize if he doesn't get what he wants.
... the nuclear option when affirming their justices.
Why does that not work for Democrats?
From wikipedia
"The nuclear option is used in response to a filibuster or other dilatory tactic. A senator makes a point of order calling for an immediate vote on the measure before the body, outlining what circumstances allow for this. The presiding officer of the Senate, usually the vice president of the United States or the president pro tempore, makes a parliamentary ruling upholding the senator's point of order. The Constitution is cited at this point, since otherwise the presiding officer is bound by precedent. A supporter of the filibuster may challenge the ruling by asking, "Is the decision of the Chair to stand as the judgment of the Senate?" This is referred to as "appealing from the Chair." An opponent of the filibuster will then move to table the appeal. As tabling is non-debatable, a vote is held immediately. A simple majority decides the issue. If the appeal is successfully tabled, then the presiding officer's ruling that the filibuster is unconstitutional is thereby upheld. Thus a simple majority is able to cut off debate, and the Senate moves to a vote on the substantive issue under consideration. The effect of the nuclear option is not limited to the single question under consideration, as it would be in a cloture vote. Rather, the nuclear option effects a change in the operational rules of the Senate, so that the filibuster or dilatory tactic would thereafter be barred by the new precedent."
If you need funds to pay for essentials, you have a revenue problem
If you need funds to pay for frivolity, you have a spending problem
Here's the deal , the Dems knew damned good and well what they were letting themselves in for giving this weasel / rat a place at the table , they give him the power to do what he's doing and they could take it away / circumvent him now but they kiss his wrinkled little ass , why ? Something really stinks here and it's not only Lieberman stinking the place up . Regardless , the gall of this guy , it's unbelievable . Oh and by the way , thanks Connecticut , you selfish idiots !
What can Democrats take away from Lieberman that reduces the power
he has to do what he is doing now? When should they have done it?
"I mean Romney is the most conservative on illegal immigration and I don't think Ronald Reagan could get elected in California today."
Ann "Clipped" Coulter
How about his chairmanship? Homeland Security is a pretty big deal - lots of powerful secrets....
Corruption favors the wealthy.
How has his chairmanship added or subtracted any other votes
needed to pass this or any other piece of legislation?
"I mean Romney is the most conservative on illegal immigration and I don't think Ronald Reagan could get elected in California today."
Ann "Clipped" Coulter
... is the direct result of his seniority in the Democratic caucus. I can't think of any reason that Joe Lieberman should even be in the Democratic caucus let alone in a position of seniority. Can you?
Corruption favors the wealthy.
Neither have you.
Senator Lieberman has one vote. Period. Chairman or not, that is all the power he has on this bill. The Dem's in the Senate are powerless to take away that vote. The voters of Connecticut gave it to him after and despite the fact that the Democrats denied him their nomination.
"I mean Romney is the most conservative on illegal immigration and I don't think Ronald Reagan could get elected in California today."
Ann "Clipped" Coulter
So why should he also have the chairmanship of one of the most powerful committees on the Hill? If it's not for party loyalty, then what's it for?
Corruption favors the wealthy.
Vice President.
and Industry Favorite
pwned
Corruption favors the wealthy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nYI5cynjoY&fe...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Poor old Droopy Dawg. Can't seem to figure out that people are on to his bullshit. Too bad the voters in Connecticut fell for his line in the last election.
Should be fun and energizing being a 55-64 year old scrambling to hustle up an extra $7,600 per year, or $633 per month. With mediocre services in return, at best.
but...bring back the Republicans in office!
It should be obvious by now the Democrats do not stand for anything meaningful. Look far and wide, beyond our borders if need be, and tell me if ANY party wold have put up with that kind of self-inflicted shit.
Apparently, Democrats need another 8 years of severe punishment and daily beatings just to reinforce their inner fiber. They hadn't had enough.
As for the health care bill, it is almost dead. Either the leadership grow a set, locate their spine (fat chance!) and administer a multiple rabbit-punch to Joe the Little Fuck, or they let him screw everyone like he's been doing since the beginning. Could be too that the progressive wing of the House and Senate will get really fed up and rebel for good, quashing the whole damn thing unless Reid get real. (fatter chance!)
Care to guess what will happen? Obama, who has been against anything truly progressive will then intervene on Holy Joe's behalf (I want to barf so bad!) spewing platitudes as meaningless as his PR stunt tirade against the banksters on 60 minutes.
FTW!!
I generally detest name calling, but "spiteful little toad" is so thoroughly descriptive of lieberman that there is no reason to hold back this time. Good job!
The fact that Harry Reid has allowed a snake like Joe Lieberman to remain in any committee posts is sufficient reason to remove Harry Reid from the Majority Leader position.
Lead or get out of the way, Harry.
Wait a minute! Did it never cross your mind that the senator from Connecticut might be doing progressives a favor? The way I see it, with no public option, the bill is a loser. Yes, it would be nice to add 55+ people to Medicare. But how does that drive down prices? Where is the competition to drive down the costs? All the bill will do is add people to the rolls, meaning -- duh! -- more people to exact premiums from. When the 55+ people retire, they will have less social security to help them out. This bill is a lose-lose affair. Hoping a good third party candidate -- perhaps Dennis Kucinich or Bernie Sanders -- will run against Obama. I will not vote for the incumbent.
"Respect for the rights of others is peace." --Benito Juarez
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