Open Thread
By bluegal Monday Oct 15, 2007 10:30pm
William K. Wolfrum at Shakespeare's Sister: War, What is it Good For? has detailed labels for this chart. Worth the look.
TOPICS
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Wow. Just amazing. No wonder why my 401k is doing so well despite the mortgage crisis.
War may also be good at causing massive inflation. The stock market may be at 14,000, but the dollar has lost over half of its value against most major currencies since the war began. Does that mean that the DOW is really at 7,000?
Try converting your salary into barrels of oil or ounces of gold or gallons of milk. The ultra rich don't care if gas is 10 bucks a gallon or milk is 5 bucks a gallon and the Gov can claim that inflation is 2% but real people are really hurting.
Molnardian @ 1:
Bill Moyers
October 12, 2007
Heading for 1929?
Veteran market watcher Robert Kuttner and Wall Street insider William H. Donaldson give their read of the current economic landscape and discuss the risks of the deregulation of the financial industry.
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/10122007/watch.html
people need to start doing google video searches of the word iraq.
they are some fantastic documentaries that you'll never see on american tv
this war is going to come back to haunt america for many, many, years to come
here is one of them:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6995958491583916832&q=iraq+durat...
My dad is a ex-military and an uber conservative . He admits that war is big business and we should always be in it. His mantra reminds me of Zorg's monologue about the breaking glass in The Fifth Element. Cool scene but its better as fiction.
sooner or later the falling (plummeting)value of the dollar has to catch up with us .
I agree with E Ryno. We have an artificially inflated stock market...check out gold 300 bucks around 9/11 and now at around 800, something is wrong with this economy and we are being fooled by an artificially inflated stock market. Wake up people.
We are headed for another 1979 or even worse 29.
In August 2002, it seemed certain that we were heading to war in Iraq. I put every cent I had into GE. Unfortunately, the week I purchased it, the price spiked for that week only, so I ended up buying it about 10% over where I wanted.
The third week of March '03 was the best week that the three major US indexes shared in twenty years.
a friend of mine(staunch repub since high school)his favorite saying is "theres no economy like a war time economy"..........now his son is in Iraq.He's not saying much anymore.
the dji numbers are fake. the rise is because there was too much ira money chasing too few stocks. in 2000, i could buy a euro foe $.85 and now it costs $1.45. many people who bought into the ira fraud, will have no retirement funds when the house of cards collapses.
the big problem with the us economy is debt
the government now has too much debt
consumers have too much debt (i always wonder why my local mall is so packed. where are people getting the money? ) less than 5% of americans make over 100k.
people are just not saving.
nm @ 10:
Think about this: Our entire economy now depends on consumer spending. If we (general term here) stop shopping for things we do not need the economy colapses. If we don't stop shopping we will be destitute. Gee, great choice.
For years I have been picking and preserving fruit from inner-city trees, but this year the drought ruined my plans... America needs to learn a raindance.
too many americans are living way beyond their means. i see people at work making 80K driving bmw's and living in expensive boston suburbs like newton. they clearly can't afford it (unless their parents are helping them out, which nobody wants to admit)
I don't even know how you save if you are making less than 250k a year.
StirFry @ 5:
I believe both the monologue and the false belief that war is good for the economy can be seen in the Broken Window Parable
The parable describes a shopkeeper whose window is broken by a little boy. Everyone sympathizes with the man whose window was broken, but pretty soon they start to suggest that the broken window makes work for the glazier, who will then buy bread, benefiting the baker, who will then buy shoes, benefiting the cobbler, etc. Finally, the onlookers conclude that the little boy was not guilty of vandalism; instead he was a public benefactor, creating economic benefits for everyone in town.
The fallacy of the onlookers' argument is that they considered only the positive benefits of purchasing a new window, but they ignored the hidden costs to the shopkeeper.
Hmm, I wonder what happened after the tech crash. I dont know, amazing growth in india and china. Record breaking corporate profits. A M&A boom. Red hot real estate market. Global commodity surges, and not just oil. Gold, copper, titanium, steel, aluminum, and anything that feeds the growth of China and India. Mix all that together and you have a bull market.
If anything this war has increased inflation. And inflation is the kryptonite of stocks.
Saying that the bull market was caused by the war in Iraq is an incredible reach of epic proportions. If anything it hurt the overall market and economy by putting pressure on oil prices which increases inflation.
jordan,
you have hit the nail on the head. these positive economic numbers mean very little if you factor in inflation (skyrocketing college costs, high mortgages, high gas, high food prices (milk is almost $5 a gallon!)
so any gains in salary become moot with inflation.
unions have been busted, industry off-shored, food, shelter, and fuel prices rising and many people making less money then 20 years ago, so people being in debt should not be surprising. the fact that the government is in debt is because of the g.o.p plan to bankrupt it with deficit spending so as to eliminate the last vestiges of the new deal.
kablooie @ 12:
try parking your car with the windows down.
nm @ 16:
I wish I had some numbers on salaries, but wage growth has decreased. And probably hasn't even come close to breaking even with inflation.
If you want to destroy a society, destroy the currency.
'
StirFry @ 5:
That seems to clash with what I assume to be a reverence for life on a personal level, having raised children and all. I guess he never thought that victims of a war might be parents or children too. I'm sorry but that's a despicable way to see the world.
nm @ 16:
I don't think the point of the graph is that the general economy is helped by war. On the contrary, only the super wealthy have monetarily benefited from this war. The rest of us have suffered. Maybe part of the plan was to distract us with never-ending war while they rob us blind.
How does US repay Qatar?
It "accidentally" fires a missle (which explodes above ground) on their farmland.
A hop, skip and a jump from Iran, people.
tHeGaMeOfLiFe @ 22:
I think you guys are kidding yourselves. The chart doesn't show any correlation with military action. You've got 3 nearly linear rises: the first from 1988-1995, a steeper rise from 1995-1999, and the recent rise starting around 2006.
Iraq I doesn't even register. Iraq II follows a market bust and the market pretty much just returned to normal.
xoites defends Constitution @ 11:
One morning on CNN the news models were talking about how much money you could save by cutting our Starbucks. But if everyone cut out Starbucks, lots of college educated folks would lose their jobs and health care.
Its one of those paradox thingies.
The news models were talking about how important it is to keep buying stock for your retirment this morning. Made me think of Kenny Boy Lay telling the world that this was a great time to buy Enron stock while he was quietly unloading his.
Its good to be out when the dump part of the pump and dump goes down.
nm @ 13:
Fractional Reserve Banking uses the issuance of debt to create wealth out of thin air.
This is a great short film . . . my parents loved it.
Money as debt
A short film by Paul Grignon
This is a not a ogical correlation. I love C&L but posts like this diminish it's overall value as a fair and honest truth-teller.
E Ryno......News Models...ROFLMAO
"News Models..."
I like it!
E Ryno @ 2:
yes...At point number 5, the US dollar was 120...today it's 78... in real dollar terms compared to the end of the "first mania", the dow jokes would be 9100 converting to todays value of the dollar.
Your point about rich people not caring about the cost of food and energy is spot on because they are filthy rich and can't relate. And...these are the people on Bubblevision telling joe six pack they ain't poor cause "they" don't "feel any economic pain" between trips to the Hamptons.
as for inflation being 2 %...thats a load of sheet...I think one of the other reasons it's suppressed is that we can't afford to give seniors their COLA's on Social Security, so they strip out all things that matter and do hand stands when plasma TV's go on sale.
“News Models…”
Sounds much more congenial than "talking heads".
Or "bobble headed noise makers."
19 Jordan Says:
If you want to destroy a society, destroy the currency.
You're absolutely right and the collapse of the US dollar and economy is what they hope will get the American people behind a North American Union, single currency system.
xoites defends Constitution @ 29:
I wish I could take credit for the term although I really can't remember where I picked it up.
I had a crush on Heidi Collins awhile back. Something happened to her, her brain got micro-waved or something . . . real creepy . . . she no longer asks follow up questions which is what got her in trouble with the alien overlords.
;>)
Dr. Know @ 31:
Deja Vue! You have said this before!
Andy @ 30:
COLA's is right on . . . guess we get Diet-Cola's . . . ;>)
weird
Regarding points 6,7 and 8:
"Following the attacks on September 11, 2001, the Federal Open Market Committee voted to reduce the federal funds rate from 3.5% to 3.0%. Then, after the accounting scandals of 2002, the Fed dropped the federal funds rate from the current 1.25% to 1.00%. Greenspan acknowledged that this drop in rates would have the effect of leading to a surge in home sales and refinancing." Wiki.
So now we've got to get through the housing decline. Instead of quick big drop, I think we got it spread out. Like a frog in slowly heated pan.
And the graph is misleading since it's y-axis is an arbitrary value. It needs to be shown adjusted to inflation, dollar relative to oil (or some other core commodity), and/or debt owned.
Dick and Obama are related.
India doesn't like nukes. Another Republiscum jumps ship. Global warming is causing a nation-wide drought. Dems quickly lose their spine over the Armenian Genocide.
yenehC hcaepmI @ 32:
They have to get a new currency so that they can re-start the madness. Eventually all Fiat currencies fail and have to be replaced with a new currency.
Money made out of copper, silver, gold, plantinum is a good hedge when the printing presses start over-heating.
http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/135.html
Tequila @ 38:
Thank God Global Warming is a myth!
xoites defends Constitution @ 40:
Now that the ice is melting, we'll be able to drill for more oil!
1. The stock market goes up during peacetime sharply
2. The stock market goes up during wartime sharply.
What is the point of this graph?
Tequila @ 38:
If you believe the bible, we are all related....to Adam and Eve, right? So we are just killing our brothers and sisters in Iraq, if you follow that logic.
that @ 20:
It's very strange indeed. You are blind and comfortable when everything you do feeds the military machine (living on base, using base facilities (tax-free BX) etc ). Being raised on bases and being surrounded by F-4's and MP's I can ...acknowledge his points and understand where he's coming from. But I hardly agree with him. The only thing I remotely agree with him about is that he's not voting for Guiliani or Romney. He says he's voting for Duncan Hunter (if he survives), but I really think he's a closet Hillary voter.
LibertyLover @ 43:
That ain't the only country.
I spit out my Funyans in laughter when I saw Guiliani's erotic dream of 9 having sex with 11 on Daily Show tonight.
C&L's gotta be cooking that one up for tomorrow.
xoites defends Constitution @ 34:
I have? Hmmm... While I remember you from last year's online "fun-and-games", I can't recall making this exact statement. Being a misanthrope trapped in RedState Hell, however, tends to makes one's memory diminish. It's a self-preservation thing...
Jeeze, I sound like Gonzolas. ;-)
House Passes the Free Flow of Information Act. The bill passed by a vote of 398-21, a margin that would easily override the veto which the White House has promised.
http://www.speaker.gov/blog/?p=852
E Ryno @ 2:
Nicely said Ryno. It's amazing how the sound of truth cuts trough all the static.
Excellent response, LL!
I read an article (it seems like a hundred years ago) in the New Yorker in the 1980s about inflation, etc. The author's main point was that during non-ballistic inflation the middle class did okay: houses increased in value, wages rose to match rises in prices (especially with unions still having some power). Now, with middle class wages stagnant (or held in check by the uber lords) inflation hits the Average American doubly hard. This ain't your grandmother's recession...
++++
Thing Fish @ 14:
I'm also wondering what the point of this graph is with regard to "war".
"3. Iraq Invades Kuwait"
- Yes...followed by continued middling, historically unremarkable gains in the stock market through Bush the Elder's presidency. Then the greatest bull market gains in U.S. Stock Market history took hold during the Clinton years and didn't let go until it went relatively flat in 2000, followed by a huge plunge starting in 2001...months before the attack on 9/11.
"7. Second Gulf War"
- Yes, followed by...oops! Not "followed" by much of anything, actually. The major bull market inflection point in the U.S. Stock Market from its previous three year long bear market occurred on March 11, 2003, more than a week before Bush issued his 48/24 hour warning to Saddam Hussein and then invaded Iraq. Moreover, the upturn in the U.S. Stock Market was fully expected and prognosticated by the best market evaluators in the business weeks PRIOR to the invasion of Iraq.
The current bull market that began on March 11, 2003, had everything to do with market fundamentals and a REBOUND from the second biggest stock market crash in U.S. history (the first being the crash of 1929) and nothing to do with the War in Iraq.
Craig apparently thinks he was entrapped into asking for gay sex...
Tequila @ 55:
His poor wife.
Please.........someone in the Progressive netroots community explain why no posts have headlined the HISTORIC hearings in the House Judiciary Committee concerning the Jena 6 injustice! Bluegal: where are the concerns for justice for all being posted????
While everyone in the progressive netroots community posted items relating to the Gonzolez DOJ attorney firings, the Jena 6 hearings chaired by John Conyers, highlight an African American Federal Prosecutor who SHOULD hgave been fired, but because he's a loyal Uncle TOM Bushie, he still has a job in spite of his lack of aggressive prosecution for hate crimes.
Were it not for C-SPAN..................no one would even have know about the hearings. Go to C-Span. com to view the hearings if you are really a PROGRESSIVE AMERICAN!!
Having returned from a local all night eatery, I have to comment on what a fine thing this "service economy" is for the people of my area. For working 40 hours, one young lady takes home a whopping $86 per week. Awe, you say, she'll make it up in tips. Tips? 20% off the top in taxes. Resulting in a $99 per week paycheck.
This in an area of $800+ per month rents, and one of the highest auto insurance and medical rates in the country. I figure that if her and 4 of her friends share a one bedroom apartment, they might just survive. Of course, if one gets sick, it's on to plan B. Throw the sick one out get another roommate to share that opulent, roach infested 800 sq ft apartment.
Yes, the future looks very bright for this young lady. She can look forward to a lifetime of acerbic piss trickling down into her existance while lawless mercenaries and clueless, propped-up frat boys are paid handsomely with the sweat of her brow.
Christ, what a hole.
OK, she/her, whatever... you get the idea.
Please spare us the grammatical critique...
Oh, and lest I forget, a whopping $108 one week last summer.
Break out the Dom Perignon, it's party time.
Freaking Pigs.
For comparison's sake,
That would be 223,613.6 years of 52/40 workdays to pay for the Iraq war.
That would be EVERY DIME EARNED to buy health insurance.
That would be half of what is needed to pay rent in a dump.
That would be nearly a car payment - not including the mechanic's repair bills at the "pay here" car lot.
That would pay for HALF the gas needed to commute 30 miles into town in your average SUV/pickup.
It would take EVERY DIME EARNED for 10 weeks to pay for one Dental Crown.
And if she gets pregnant, it'll take EVERY DIME earned for two years to have that baby, unless she spits it out in a taxicab.
But hey, the stock market looks rosy... (even through the smoke and mirrors?)
OK - I'm done now...
Hey, crooks and liars are up to something else at the moment. Think this is probably a hoax, but apparently some people are buying it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ailocf7Ia3Y
Jack.
Tequila @ 55:
The little video boxes in the left-hand margin, at Yahoo, were amusing to watch. Living overseas, I forget how trashy American local and national news is.
Economy. To me it's pretty simple, and all those theories etc., drive me bonkers (I just don't understand). From my perspective it goes like this. If I spend more than I make, for a while I can get by on borrowing etc., but not forever. (Ever tried living on your credit card? It just gets uglier and uglier.) Now, if everyone is doing that, sooner or later, the energizer bunny DOES RUN OUT OF JUICE (yup-- believe it). Once lots of people default on their payments (the monies owed), well, then the banks are in trouble, or the people that bought the bank's debt. Then capital dries up, there is no money to lend, and interest rates go up for everyone.
If an entire nation is doing the same thing..... the bottom line is it can't go on forever. Never has, not in the entire history of the planet.
Is that naive? If I make $10 a week, but always spend $12 (and so does everyone else), what happens?
War economies boost the cycle, it in the short term, becasue the governemnt goes into debt spending and distributing money YOU haven't earned yet (but will be paying in next year's taxes, etc. etc.-- till death, and your kids too). That's the shopkeeper PAYING for the broken window (see above), but no one is really further ahead, except the war profiteers. They keep their slice and buy a yacht to sail away on. Everyone else wakes up with a bad hangover and a lifetime of debt to repay.
[...] Remember investors: non-voluntary labor’s greatest advantage is its endless supply. We’re not going to run out of people. [...]
All the boomer money thrown at the market in a futile attempt to sock something away to make up for the raided Social Security system could just vaporize, since it doesn't much represent actual investment in capacity to do something useful. Its just been used in a big game of something for nothing.
Retirement? HA!
Unfortunately, take out the Military-Industrial complex from our economy, and theres not a lot left. Shameful. We are the armory for the world.
Regarding the economic bubble we are living in...
http://www.gao.gov/docsearch/app_processform.php
Pick a report, any report. Man, I love that site.
Tom the Dancing Bug, and the First War Ever. Worth a peek.
http://www.salon.com/comics/boll/2007/10/11/boll/
chlorocardium @ 64:
Very possibly probable. What is wealth? All those numbers flying around in computers? Only if we humans agree that's wealth. You can't eat it, and it won't keep you warm.
moondancer @ 65:
And the pathetic part is that we could not maintain a concerted large scale war effort with, say China, if we eventually piss off enough people in the world for such a thing to come about. We have no manufacturing base left. Tires? China. Cast Iron? China. Electronic components? China, Korea, Japan. Pulled pipe? China. Fabric? China. Tools? China. You get the idea...
Yeah, the forced human labor market is booming.
Jack Markof @ 61:
"Two Thumbs Up"
For those interested. It's a short, sweet, and to the point historical perspective.
Che Guevara - Mother Theresa of the Left
And Hilary supports Attacking Iraq!
What this news segment:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0icVblxh2dI
Daily Reading pt 1...
Draftgore.com (main website, there are several different draft gore sites) now has a quarter of a million, 250,000 signatures - http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5jsfQQ10jYLzMDHCfThqcC50k_AOw
According to web tracking firm Alexa.com, traffic on Draftgore.com surpassed Hillary Clinton's official campaign website by more than two-to-one on Friday.
"Interest in a Gore candidacy is skyrocketing," said Draft Gore founder Monica Friedlander. "People are stirred to action in record numbers by the possibility of America's greatest statesman and global leader becoming the next president of the United States."
http://www.draftgore.com/
Revealed: the man (gasp...with ties to ExxonMobil) behind court attack on Gore film, an - http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,2190770,00.html
Fuel and mining magnate backed UK challenge to An Inconvenient Truth
Turns out a lone Scottish quarrying magnate, Robert Durward, fronted the funding for "The New Party" that helped a school governor argue a case against the showing of The Inconvenient Truth to British schoolchildren. Durward once wrote a letter-to-the-editor claiming 'It is time for Tony Blair to try the "fourth way", declare martial law and let the army sort out our schools, hospitals and roads.'
Nope...no agenda here...none at all...just another corporatist/fascist apologist...right wingnuts are the dumbest P'sOS on this planet
Killing us slowly with their stupidity: The new standard for electrical transformers, announced Friday, will save less energy than utilities had expected. In short, the Bush administration went with standards less efficient than even the industry had agreed to.
- http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/1017/p02s03-usec.html
Yet another Orwellian "energy efficient upgrade" BS scheme perpetrated on the American people...by the worst president ever
Yet another reason global warming deniers are the lowest forms of life on the earth: Home Insurers Canceling in East; Concern about hurricane coverage in the Northeast; What? - http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/16/nyregion/16insurance.html?_r=1&ref=us&...
Wow....how stupid are right wingnuts?? Yep...they're betting against the industry that invented the concept of 'risk management'...
"The Bush administration rejects the idea that the war in Iraq has driven young Arab men into the arms of al-Qaida. But if you believe the young men themselves, the administration is wrong."
- http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21312504/
Once again, Republicans & GOP fueling their own 'demand'....making future generations pay for their evil driven stupidity/chaos-by-design
Harry Reid, “I say that Iraq is the worst foreign policy blunder in the history of our country.” Youtube Video. - http://www.hillbillyreport.com/blog/2007/10/harry-reid-and-.html
Daily Reading pt 2...
If there was ever any doubt after the Bush Crime Family took over the air waves: NPR Affiliate Refuses to Air Planned Parenthood Ad - http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/10/16/101543/30
National Public Republican radio....nothing but a bunch of libertarian 'free marketists'/corporatists, right wingnutters, & on-paper liberals....don't listen....get XM & Air America Radio
Republican Restroom Roundup: Yee Haw! - http://politicsplus.blogspot.com/2007/10/republican-restroom-roundup-yee...
A compilation of articles, with commentary and video, on the GOP presidential campaign... There's lots of news from GOPerville today, and as usual, they're fighting to out-do each other for the biggest idiot honors. I bet Larry Craig is looking on with pride and joy at the doings of his brothers.
Was Michelle 'Cruella' Malkin Fired by Fox over Smear of 12 Year Old? - http://www.pensitoreview.com/2007/10/16/did-fox-fire-malkin/
"Tom Delay is my personal hero" - Michelle Malkin circa 2002 even after the Northern Marianas island revelations...(another GOP self-hater)
GOPer Bobby Jindal's Creationist Talking Points; This is definitely not a bedtime story - http://www.talk2action.org/story/2007/10/15/222041/63
Louisiana Gubernatorial candidate will force ID & creationism into school curiculums...a small unnoticed scheme of NCLB
Disturbing signs are converging in Louisiana. The Louisiana Family Forum’s plan to “promote better science education” with public tax dollars, courtesy of Sen. Vitter, is in truth a plan to promote creationism, which this affiliate of Focus on the Family has done since its establishment in 1999.
******See Judgment Day: Intelligent Design on Trial, NOVA (PBS), November 13, 2007.****** http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiEP-XSApgY Its the anti-companion piece to Ben "never met money I wouldn't do anything for....see my hosting of 'America's Most Smartest Model' on VH1 for details" Stein's ridiculous crockumentary of ID....
Whack-a-Murdoch - http://www.stopbigmedia.com/=whackamurdoch
Bush's Mission Accomplished: Oil Futures Hit High of $88 a Barrel - http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/16/business/worldbusiness/16cnd-oil.html?...
Will Christian right leave GOP at altar? Roll out the barrel, we'll have a barrel of fun. - http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/politics/20071014-9999-1n14religion.html
Retirement season hits GOP hard - http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-retire16oct16,0,688...
Official Statement on Randi Rhodes from Air America: "On Sunday evening, October 14, Air America host Randi Rhodes experienced an unfortunate incident hindering her from hosting her show. The reports of a presumed hate crime are unfounded. Ms. Rhodes looks forward to being back on the air on Thursday." - http://www.airamerica.com/node/5528
Putin is flexing his very real muscles : Last July in a speech in Munich he lambasted the U.S. for its "unilateral and frequently illegitimate actions," claiming that "the United States has overstepped its national borders in every way" and slamming its "greater and greater disdain" for international law. Now in his visit to Iran he has reaffirmed that diplomacy is the way to go with Iran NOT military force, and implied that should the US ignore his warning, he would support Iran militarily. Nice. WWIII.
Bbbbbbbbbbb...bbbb...bbbut what about poor Israel?
One look at that chart along with the moral hazard we live by tells me instead of socializing medicine the plutocrats ( rethugs and dems ) have socialized "risk"...for the benefit of themselves...1-800-BAILMEOUT seems to be working again. The markets go parabolic, pull back 5%, and they whiners for rate cuts and bailouts come out of the woodwork...Cry some more and get 100 billion to offload your toxic waste into...We have truly socialized risk for the cronies.
@72: Yet another reason global warming deniers are the lowest forms of life on the earth: Home Insurers Canceling in East; Concern about hurricane coverage in the Northeast; What? - http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10.....ref=slogin
Wow….how stupid are right wingnuts?? Yep…they’re betting against the industry that invented the concept of ‘risk management’…
Hey, why not just let the taxpayers subsidize it, like they do here in NC. What, the money would be better spent on silly services like schools and roads?
PBS
Frontline
Cheney's Law
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/cheney/
Andy @ 75:
Nice, eh?
"Nice, eh?"
Most if not all of those bullet points which resulted in parabolic moves were due to moral hazard coinciding with options expiration and some form of bailout.....
This current batch of cronies who hate socialized medicine ought to look in the mirror...they can create 100 billion of free money out of thin air, spend 190 billion a year on a war, but can't afford 7 or 8 billion for SCHIP....
tr @ 10:
E Ryno @ 2:
I meant to transpose those quotes, but...our amazing stock market is simple inflation. Besides, the stock market does not generate wealth, it transfers wealth. (i'm not trying to be Marxist here) Money and wealth are not the same thing. You can be "poor" and quite wealthy if you have a solid roof over your head that isn't mortgaged to the hilt, food enough, and health. The middle class boomers made one boomer of a mistake, they mistook money for wealth and chased their dreams in the market. It may work out ok, but it all might go bust too. Short term profits--which is all that the market is concerned with--also played their part in shipping our manufacturing sector to China, so the children of boomers are left with shitty, dead-end jobs that don't really pay the bills much less leave enough left over to save or invest in the market for their retirement. And that leaves us all tied to this "new" consumer economy where we must shop till we drop or the bottom falls out and erases all those jobs at Starbucks, etc.
The rest of the world sees it coming. China now exports as much to Europe (who is pissed off about this rapidly inflating Euro) as it does to the US. Reserve nations are slowly siphoning off their dollars so as not to get caught with their pants down, but this siphoning puts more downward pressure on the dollar. China, the biggest holder, is using the money that we borrowed from them to play the great game for oil in Africa.
The Economist already writes articles about how well the world economy will weather the US going into the tank...these are indeed strange and savage times.
James Carville has recently predicted that Jeb Bush will enter the Presidential race,say it aint so.
it would appear Speaker Pelosi snookered this admin..by condemning Turkey for the Armenian slaughter.Now Turkey is pissed off at the US and threatens to deny access to Turkish airspace....which makes it harder for the Preznit to have his war and eat it too...which forces the Preznit to come to the table.......not bad.
nm @ 4:
I just found a cool site this past weekend that has a lot of great documentary for free viewing. If you have high speed internet. There are a number of newer ones on Iraq and related current events but also a lot of other material on many subjects. Here it is: Movies Found Online
The saddest thing about the crop of Presidential candidates is that Bush would still win.
The Hardcore 24
Edwin @ 62:
Yeah one of the advantages of living overseas is no trashy american tv.
Its important to understand that because the U.S. is still the de facto global currency, we can borrow much greater amounts than other countries are allowed to. This is unfair, but that is the reality. Argentina went belly up at a much lower debt/GDP than the U.S. is presently at. Borrowing can go on forever IF yearly productivity gains offset the costs of borrowing. The question is not how much you borrow but what are you borrowing the money for. My own sense is that in the past 8 years we've started to disportionally borrow more for unproductive things - the iraq war, houses and additions that do not really add value, perscription drugs, etc. The perception among global investors is that the U.S. is still a good place to get a decent return on their capital. And so the grat game continues.
Interesting you bring up war economies. Wars used to be R&D intensive and create all sorts of great inventions. Part of the post war boom happened because of domestic spin-offs of wartime inventions - radar, jet engines, microwave technology, nuclear technology, the list goes on and on. This doesn't happen anymore - except maybe the Gulf War I and the Hummer.
"it would appear Speaker Pelosi snookered this admin..by condemning Turkey for the Armenian slaughter".
She may have known that the House would never cave in and called it's bluff to look "liberal". In fact the House has already caved, not only top pressure from Turkey per se, but to Zionist pressure because of fear that the Armenian genocide would be associated with them (Google it--it's true)
Tequila @ 55:
When Matt Lauer asks Craig about his discharge from the National Guard, Craig replies:
"I have a medical discharge based on my feet."
His toe tapping feet and and his wide stance, no doubt.
It will prove interesting to see in the next few years just how much of this crumbling administration will make it into the common vernacular. They have most certainly provided a myriad of fodder.
I've already found myself, in moments of desperation to glean something humorous from it all, adopting phrases based on predatory promiscuity, pedophilia, and abject avarice. What a legacy...
I went over expecting some blockbuster graph and that thing is pretty random and confusing. The commenters are arguing over thre about logarithmic functions (?) and the graph is pretty a dud with no accompanying analysis. I know your heart is in the right place, but how about a little more less pointless log-rolling!
E Ryno @ 2:
No maybe about it. A more useful chart than the one here is to plot wholesale prices against major U.S. wars going back to the Revolutionary War. Very revealing.
That stock market chart is interesting, but to really put things in perspective you need to plot the value of the dollar over the same time period.
If you go to this chart (java applet, loads slow) and change the timescale (in menu at top of chart) to monthly you can see the dollar goes down.
If the dollar was still backed by something real (like gold or silver) our government wouldn't be able to finance costly boondogels by running the printing presses overtime.
if you can stand to watch and hear him, here is a clip of gwb2 in the rose garden after meeting some wounded vets.
he sounds a little shook up in the first 1:40 (that's as much as i could stand) it makes me wonder if maybe it's the first time he's really talked to/met some of these guys...maybe he got hit up side the head with: "hey, these are real people who are getting hurt. it's a lot different than what dick tells me and what i see on fox"
i got the link in an e-mail update from www.iava.org
clip:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/10/20071016-6.wm.v.html
right wing hater @ 72
Gore rules himself out of presidential race
Ed Pilkington in New York
Wednesday October 17, 2007
The newly crowned Nobel peace prize laureate, Al Gore, has moved to squash suggestions that he will stand as a candidate for the 2008 presidential elections.
"I don't have plans to be a candidate again," the former US vice-president told Norwegian television.
"I'm involved in a different kind of campaign, a global campaign to change the way people think about the climate crisis."
The blunt statement effectively brings to an end the state of limbo - actively maintained by Mr Gore until this point - in which observers and supporters were left guessing as to his electoral intentions. (emphasis added)
article continues:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections08/story/0,,2193222,00.html
noitaluspacne @ 94:
I guess I should probably add that the problem with the printing of new money that isn't backed by anything is that it makes the money you are currently holding worth less (because there are more dollars chasing the same amount of goods). This is called inflation.
Even though there was no official tax to cover the costs of the Iraq war, we were indeed taxed (via inflation). The government just didn't tell us about it.
Gore rules out presidential bid
Nobel laureate Al Gore
Al Gore's film An Inconvenient Truth was an unlikely box office hit
Former US Vice-President Al Gore has ruled out again making a late entry into the 2008 presidential race.
In an interview with Norwegian broadcaster NRK, he said he would not make a fresh bid for the White House.
Mr Gore told NRK he wanted to focus on his climate change campaigning, which won him a Nobel Peace Prize last week.
Mr Gore, the beaten Democratic candidate in the 2000 election, had repeatedly stated he had no interest in standing again for president.
...
read on:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7048370.stm
Bush Says Iran Nuclear Project Raises War Risk
By BRIAN KNOWLTON
Published: October 17, 2007
WASHINGTON, Oct. 17 — President Bush warned today that Iran would be raising the risk of a “World War III” if it came to possess nuclear weapons.
And he said he believed that Russia still wanted to stop Iran from developing such weapons.
Those comments, made during a far-ranging 45-minute news conference, came as reporters sought the president’s reaction to a warning on Tuesday by President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia against any military strikes on Iran to halt the nuclear work that it has continued in defiance of much of the world. Iran contends that its nuclear program is purely peaceful.
“If Iran had a nuclear weapon, it’d be a dangerous threat to world peace,” Mr. Bush said. “So I told people that if you’re interested in avoiding World War III, it seems like you ought to be interested in preventing them from having the knowledge necessary to make a nuclear weapon.”
“I take the threat of Iran with a nuclear weapon very seriously,” he said.
article continues:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/17/washington/17cnd-prexy.html?_r=1&hp&or...
OK, looked at this graph... Went to the other site and looked at the same thing... Read some of the comments there, read some of the comments here.. And I still am not certain what the point is really... My intuition informs me stats and numbers can be manipulated by anyone playing with numbers to say almost anything they fucking want it to say, therefore it's all suspect bullshit by itself without other cooborating evidence..
But I have this much to say about what seems to be inferred here... That is, IF the stock market as currently constituted and operated depends on war and killing to thrive, or worse yet, subtlely encourages humanity to war with itself and kill numbers of our species off in order to see money made? Then the stock market as it currently exists has outlived its usefulness to humanity. Anything that either actively or passively encourages killing and destruction to make money is just fucked up period....JD
85 unfrozencaveman Says:
To continue... (I teach in Korea) Students have asked me, "What does Canada make?" I am at a loss to answer. Nothing? The Koreans make all kinds of stuff, and have brands all over the world, but I can't think of a single (big name) Canadian brand. Can you? I'm not sure the US is making much either. The "big 3" are at junk bond status, and most other stuff is made overseas, or will be very soon-- cheap labour, no health insurance to pay.
I guess we'll all end up as slaves to the rich in service industries???
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