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Juan Williams' ironic criticism of Daily Kos

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As has been widely reported this week, Daily Kos’ Markos Moulitsas will be a contributor to Newsweek, helping offer commentary on the 2008 presidential election.

Predictably, the announcement was not well received among conservative bloggers, but the more striking reaction came from NPR’s Juan Williams in an interview last night.

“[T]he fact is that he’s not a journalist in terms of someone who knows how to do reporting, someone who reflects balance in what he portrays. To the contrary, he engages in the kind of hyperbole and extreme statements that’s represented by that crass and, I think, offensive statement he made about those dead people.

“But you know what? I think that’s just what’s going on in journalism. I think that, you know, there’s more and more opinion, less and less people who know how to do the job. All you’ve got to do is shout, say something on the blog that offends and attacks the other side, and suddenly, you have the credentials, and you’re said to be a journalist. I think it’s a great lie.”

Juan Williams said this while answering questions from Sean Hannity, during an interview on Fox News. The irony was apparently lost on the host, the guest, and the audience. What a shame.

On a related note, will Williams have similar criticism of Karl Rove -- who's been hired as Kos' counterbalance at Newsweek?

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lynette's picture

really?? isn't juan williams one of the great apologists for that scumbag bill o'reilly? it is pathetic the lengths the media insiders will go to to preserve their positions. that newsweek has done this gives me just a little frisson of hope that all is not lost with the MSM.

Bonkers's picture

Sux that Juan is supposed to represent balance on that show. Now THAT'S the lie.

JudyLou's picture

"less and less people"--?? Should be "fewer and fewer people."

He's not a very bright bulb.

mudshark's picture

he should know about that lie,he lives and breaths in a den of inequity.

Bonkers's picture

Oh, and Juan? Don't hate the player; hate the game. Just because Kos nabbed a supposedly nice gig with Newsweek, doesn't mean you have to throw your whirled peas on the floor.

Anthony Look's picture

When Juan Williams decided to come out of his conservative bias closet; he came out gang busters. His credibility among NPR listeners has no doubt dropped below Bush's numbers.

Otay's picture

The irony is that Markos has a degree in journalism. While Hannity dropped out of college. He couldn't even keep a job at a college radio station. Basically, a wingnut welfare recipient.

Tell me who the non-journalist is. AKA the drop-out dumbass.

esmith's picture

No surprise coming from the McCarthy channel. Who would have thought what kkk with an uncle tom news channel would be like.

soothsayer's picture

Juan Williams' 1998 book on Thurgood Marshall was a huge disappointment, and he has gone steadily downhill ever since.

Bonkers's picture

I'm sorry, but I have never seen this Sammons fool before, but he is a classic conservative bedwetter. He just threw his Gerber carrots right next to Juan's peas.

And...Hannity Sux Ass.

Marcus Aurelius's picture

Traditional journalists are going the way of the buggy whip. Thanks to new technologies, we don't need them anymore. Maybe Williams should give up his day job and start a blog. He'll finally be paid what he's worth.

Bonkers's picture

Ugh. Couldn't even finish the clip. Listening to Hannity is like having someone fart in my face.

Kahoneez's picture

"OPINIONS " , I'm still trying to figure what the Fox Noise's opinions are based on , Objectivity ? No and isn't it nice that they control both sides of the " debate" . I also bet Williams conversation with Roger Ailes went the same way as Alan Colmes , don't rock the boat too much and you'll make a lot of money , don't attack Fox noise hosts , you'll make a lot of money and when we want criticism of the left , you'll make a lot of money . This clown is bought and paid for and when he's expected to play the role of boot licker , which is the majority of the time , Juan Williams is ready to jump and play the role .

mudshark's picture

his silence about KKKarl....is deafening

Inconceivable's picture

In response to criticism of Sean Hannity fundraising for Giuliani, where journalists are supposed to be biased, Fox News themselves said that Sean Hannity is *NOT* a journalist.

They say that Sean Hannity is a "Conservative Commentator".

Incredible irony.

Now you see the type of mentality these people have? Clueless, ABSOLUTELY clueless that there are actually people who can think other than they do, and that are deserving of respect.

T.A.S.'s picture

Absolutely excellent points addressed here! Certainly one the best posts I've seen at CrooksandLiars.

kltplzxyM .rM's picture

Juan et al are just probably jealous that Kos got the gig. His opinions are no more journalistic than Kos' blogging and are far worse in quality. I'm with Marcus. GTFO losers.

mudshark's picture

no retroactive immunty for telecom companies........well that's a plus.

Ballsac Teebagher's picture

This is great news. A CIA operative writing for Newsweek!! Swweeeeeeeet.

StirFry's picture

Bonkers @ 5:

Oh, and Juan? Don't hate the player; hate the game. Just because Kos nabbed a supposedly nice gig with Newsweek, doesn't mean you have to throw your whirled peas on the floor.

;) that's right !

mudshark's picture

Ballsac Teebagher @ 19:

This is great news. A CIA operative writing for Newsweek!! Swweeeeeeeet.

creative name there ..ummm.....bud.

mrogi's picture

Now that Newsweek has just hired Karl Rove as a columnist, I wonder what Juan Williams will have to say about that?
I bet Juan will suddenly shut his stupid hypocritical mouth and not say a gattdam thing about that.

Gregg's picture

the desperate right wing tactic;

"if you are too lame to lay down a bunt, then go for a home run"

Ballsac Teebagher's picture

mudshark @ 21:

Ballsac Teebagher @ 19:

This is great news. A CIA operative writing for Newsweek!! Swweeeeeeeet.

creative name there ..ummm.....bud.

Thanks dude. I like your's too. LED ZEP FOREVER!!!

mudshark's picture

imo...Markos can do no harm......that they haven't already done.If anything he can provide some honesty.

miss_kitty's picture

And when will FOX 'News' hire someone who is brilliant, to counter Williams' blatant stupidity?

mudshark's picture

Ballsac Teebagher @ 24:

mudshark @ 21:

Ballsac Teebagher @ 19:

This is great news. A CIA operative writing for Newsweek!! Swweeeeeeeet.

creative name there ..ummm.....bud.

Thanks dude. I like your's too. LED ZEP FOREVER!!!

you must know the origins of my name.....courtesy of FZ

Ballsac Teebagher's picture

mudshark @ 25:

imo...Markos can do no harm......that they haven't already done.If anything he can provide some honesty.

Don't underestimate Markos.

miss_kitty's picture

Ballsac Teebagher @ 24:

mudshark @ 21:

Ballsac Teebagher @ 19:

This is great news. A CIA operative writing for Newsweek!! Swweeeeeeeet.

creative name there ..ummm.....bud.

Thanks dude. I like your's too. LED ZEP FOREVER!!!

Mudshark is a Zappa tune From Live at the Fillmore, 1971, IIRC...

Ballsac Teebagher's picture

mudshark @ 27:

Ballsac Teebagher @ 24:

mudshark @ 21:

Ballsac Teebagher @ 19: creative name there ..ummm.....bud.

Thanks dude. I like your's too. LED ZEP FOREVER!!!

you must know the origins of my name.....courtesy of FZ

Lemme tell you 'bout the mudshark... ;)

Ballsac Teebagher's picture

miss_kitty @ 29:

Ballsac Teebagher @ 24:

mudshark @ 21:

Ballsac Teebagher @ 19: creative name there ..ummm.....bud.

Thanks dude. I like your's too. LED ZEP FOREVER!!!

Mudshark is a Zappa tune From Live at the Fillmore, 1971, IIRC...

Ya of course Miss Kitty, but you are aware of the Led Zep legend as well yes?

Ballsac Teebagher's picture

miss_kitty @ 26:

And when will FOX 'News' hire someone who is brilliant, to counter Williams' blatant stupidity?

Are there any brilliant 'news' people to hire?

miss_kitty's picture

No. But I spent an interesting evening at the Edgewater Inn with Todd Rundgren's band :)

mudshark's picture

ok you guy..LOL.....back on topic....Juanita and Markos......who listens to juanita anyway?

lewisnclark's picture

So, Sean Hannity is a JOURNALIST!!?? LMAO! That's hilarious. Keep the jokes comin', Juan.

miss_kitty's picture

Ballsac Teebagher @ 31:

Ya of course Miss Kitty, but you are aware of the Led Zep legend as well yes?

Damn I forgot to quote...

No. But I spent an interesting evening at the Edgewater Inn with Todd Rundgren’s band :)

Dennis's picture

Otay @ 7:

The irony is that Markos has a degree in journalism. While Hannity dropped out of college. He couldn't even keep a job at a college radio station. Basically, a wingnut welfare recipient.

Tell me who the non-journalist is. AKA the drop-out dumbass.

The line of extremely successful people who dropped out of college is a very long one, Otay. So is the line of successful people who struggled early in their career. And having a degree in journalism doesn't make one a journalist.

mudshark's picture

miss_kitty @ 33:

No. But I spent an interesting evening at the Edgewater Inn with Todd Rundgren's band :)

STOP IT!!! YOUR Killin me.......LOL

slappy magoo's picture

Damn near every newspaper in America has an opinion column or page or section...

News networks (oh, and Fox) have shows on that are opinion-based, including H&C where Williams was allowed to OPINE.

Markos' won't be the first opinion-based columnist to grace the pages of a news magazine.

Oh, and OTay? Not only is Hannity a wingnut welfare recipient, but in his even-more-stupid-than-now youth, he was fired from a radio station for having on some uber-right-wing commentary. Who came to his defense? The ACLU. Ah, sweet irony.

miss_kitty's picture

Ballsac Teebagher @ 32:

miss_kitty @ 26:

And when will FOX 'News' hire someone who is brilliant, to counter Williams' blatant stupidity?

Are there any brilliant 'news' people to hire?

Yes. But they're working for Democracy Now! and other marginalised news agencies...

goatsage's picture

miss_kitty @ 40:

Ballsac Teebagher @ 32:

miss_kitty @ 26:

And when will FOX 'News' hire someone who is brilliant, to counter Williams' blatant stupidity?

Are there any brilliant 'news' people to hire?

Yes. But they're working for Democracy Now! and other marginalised news agencies...

Brown-nosing has replaced brilliance in the MSM.

mudshark's picture

goatsage @ 41:

miss_kitty @ 40:

Ballsac Teebagher @ 32:

miss_kitty @ 26:

Are there any brilliant 'news' people to hire?

Yes. But they're working for Democracy Now! and other marginalised news agencies...

Brown-nosing has replaced brilliance in the MSM.

sad...but true.

AngryTeen's picture

Sean Hannity needs to get run over by a bus. Really. The man drops out of college, and yet gets a show on fox. Well, actually, I'm not surprised. He's the bext they can get.
I really just don't watch the news anymore. I read blogs, or I watch The Daily Show. That's it, because they're about the only things left in modern society that aren't owned by Rupert Murdoch.

mudshark's picture

Ballsac Teebagher @ 31:

miss_kitty @ 29:

Ballsac Teebagher @ 24:

mudshark @ 21:

Thanks dude. I like your's too. LED ZEP FOREVER!!!

Mudshark is a Zappa tune From Live at the Fillmore, 1971, IIRC...

Ya of course Miss Kitty, but you are aware of the Led Zep legend as well yes?

ahhhh geeeezzz.........octopus........sushi anyone?

wxgeek's picture

Journalistic credentials? WTF! If by those standards laid out by that by Sammon and Williams, why does 80% of those employed by FNC have jobs.

What kills me about guys like Hannity is that he acts like he some higher moral authority figure who speaks on a more mature level....but then resorts to name calling (Daily Kooks)...yeah, real mature Sean!

Otay's picture

Dennis @ 37:

Otay @ 7:

The irony is that Markos has a degree in journalism. While Hannity dropped out of college. He couldn't even keep a job at a college radio station. Basically, a wingnut welfare recipient.

Tell me who the non-journalist is. AKA the drop-out dumbass.

The line of extremely successful people who dropped out of college is a very long one, Otay. So is the line of successful people who struggled early in their career. And having a degree in journalism doesn't make one a journalist.

Having a degree in journalism and a job in story checking kind of do make on a journalist. Whereas not knowing how to add (i.e. Hannity in Let Freedom Ring says you can compound percentages over the years, so if I give my employee 20% of my profits per year, after 6 years he will have received 120% of my profits!), coupled with being a drop-out and a failure at radio until given wingnut welfare, who gets his "facts" wrong often, kind of does make one a non-journalist and a dumbass. And I have not even talked about how in comparison with Rove, Markos is a Woodward/Bernstein.

goatsage's picture

wxgeek @ 45:

What kills me about guys like Hannity is that he acts like he some higher moral authority figure who speaks on a more mature level....but then resorts to name calling (Daily Kooks)...yeah, real mature Sean!

Now, now, consider the maturity level of his viewers.

wxgeek's picture

goatsage @ 47:

wxgeek @ 45:

What kills me about guys like Hannity is that he acts like he some higher moral authority figure who speaks on a more mature level....but then resorts to name calling (Daily Kooks)...yeah, real mature Sean!

Now, now, consider the maturity level of his viewers.

My bad goatsage, sometimes i have to be reminded of that.

jwazzz's picture

AngryTeen @ 43:

Sean Hannity needs to get run over by a bus. Really. The man drops out of college, and yet gets a show on fox. Well, actually, I'm not surprised. He's the bext they can get.
I really just don't watch the news anymore. I read blogs, or I watch The Daily Show. That's it, because they're about the only things left in modern society that aren't owned by Rupert Murdoch.

Well said and I couldn't agree more. I read a variety of blogs, right and left, and figure that the truth lies somewhere in between.

Acanthus's picture

Juan Williams, huh? After his piece in the WAPO just yesterday titled "One Race, Divisible", nothing he does from now on will surprise me.

wxgeek's picture

One final thought, who the hell are Sammon and Hannity to judge whether Markos's apology was genuine. Screw these self-righteous morons!

Did you hear the one about the moron, the dipshit, and the idoit who walked into a Fox News studio..............???

David N.'s picture

re: merc's
I thought they were ( and are ) fair game , my vote with Markos .

Miss Kitty I remember the Fillmore having lived thru the 60's , in the bay area

Kevin Simms's picture

Dennis @ 37:

Otay @ 7:

The irony is that Markos has a degree in journalism. While Hannity dropped out of college. He couldn't even keep a job at a college radio station. Basically, a wingnut welfare recipient.

Tell me who the non-journalist is. AKA the drop-out dumbass.

The line of extremely successful people who dropped out of college is a very long one, Otay. So is the line of successful people who struggled early in their career. And having a degree in journalism doesn't make one a journalist.

As I've stated before, go home. Here's how --> Moutherbreathers Anonymous

jimbo92107's picture

Righties don't differentiate between irony and mere coincidence.
Example: Hey, your car and mine both use gasoline. How ironic!
No, that's not ironic, because you expect cars to use gasoline. What's ironic is that my Tesla Roadster is twice as fast and ten times more efficient than your Hummer. What's ironic is that when we're both stuck in a traffic jam, then a bicycle beats us to work.
Sports Example: Ironically, the 49ers and Steelers had great receivers during their Super Bowl years.
No, observed similarities are not ironic, unless they are unexpected. If Joe Montana and Terry Bradshaw were both gay, THAT would be ironic.

Dennis @ 37:

Otay @ 7:

The irony is that Markos has a degree in journalism. While Hannity dropped out of college. He couldn't even keep a job at a college radio station. Basically, a wingnut welfare recipient.

Tell me who the non-journalist is. AKA the drop-out dumbass.

The line of extremely successful people who dropped out of college is a very long one, Otay. So is the line of successful people who struggled early in their career. And having a degree in journalism doesn't make one a journalist.

Neither does spewing GOP propaganda on Fox.

You are right about one thing though. There are a lot of people who have gone far in life with little intelligence. Brittney, Rush, Hannity, Boortz, Beck, and let me think??? Oh yeah, Dumbya!

In fact, (mathematically speaking) there seems to be an inversely proportional relationship between the intelligence of repukes, and the amount of corporate welfare they command.

Now I understand why Bush is preznit. Thanks for clarifying that piece of republican logic.

Gregory's picture

Dennis @ 37:

Otay @ 7:

The irony is that Markos has a degree in journalism. While Hannity dropped out of college. He couldn't even keep a job at a college radio station. Basically, a wingnut welfare recipient.

Tell me who the non-journalist is. AKA the drop-out dumbass.

The line of extremely successful people who dropped out of college is a very long one, Otay. So is the line of successful people who struggled early in their career. And having a degree in journalism doesn't make one a journalist.

dennis,
Do you not think that having studied journalism in university gives one greater qualifications to practice the trade than someone who decided that he couldn't hack the academic regimen? Just curious, because if that is the case then you clearly would not mind if Sean H. was your physican, right?

You are going to lose your reputation as the "intelligent" conservative by defending the likes of Hannity.

Hank Roberts's picture

Mr. Williams, you're no Eric Sevareid.

http://thinkexist.com/quotes/eric_sevareid/

John Tighe's picture

JudyLou @ 3:

"less and less people"--?? Should be "fewer and fewer people."

He's not a very bright bulb.

You beat me to it. I guess being in the proximity of Fox talking heads lowers one's IQ.

Marcus Aurelius's picture

Regarding the whole college/university drop-out topic: GWB holds degrees from both Harvard and Yale. Nowadays, anyone can buy a degree from any US university. Some of the least competent and/or least knowledgeable people I know have multiple Masters Degrees. On the other hand, I work for a very smart, very successful, very wealthy university drop out.

A degree doesn't hurt one's chances in the job market, but having one or more doesn't really say much.

BTW: Hannity is a doofus (intellect) and a dick (attitude).

Otay's picture

Marcus Aurelius @ 60:

BTW: Hannity is a doofus (intellect)

Now that's something we can all agree on. ;)

Simon's picture

While Rove has arguably caused more harm to our country than any other man in history, he has insight and tons of political insight, as disgusting as his opinions are, what in the world are Kos' political credentials? I doubt they match up. Just trying to be real here. If we're going to complain about all the non-journalists, we need to not fool ourselves into thinking that a blogger is a trained journalist.

Maddy's picture

“[T]he fact is that he’s not a journalist in terms of someone who knows how to do reporting, someone who reflects balance in what he portrays. To the contrary, he engages in the kind of hyperbole and extreme statements that’s represented by that crass and, I think, offensive statement he made about those dead people.

Gee, that reminds me of all the brave questions Juan Williams has asked in his interviews with those on the right.
Gee, that reminds me of the excellent reportage of David Broder a more balanced man could not be found.
Gee, that reminds of whaT'S his face Brooks
Judith Miller
Mr. Cooper
And all the other ass clowns whose reputations for fair, objective hard hitting journalism are simply astonishing.

In the vernacular of the street juan you don't no shit from shinola, or second choice, you are an ass kissing toady.
Appearances on sean hannity are testament enough.

Otay's picture

Simon @ 62:

While Rove has arguably caused more harm to our country than any other man in history, he has insight and tons of political insight, as disgusting as his opinions are, what in the world are Kos' political credentials? I doubt they match up. Just trying to be real here. If we're going to complain about all the non-journalists, we need to not fool ourselves into thinking that a blogger is a trained journalist.

If you think Rove has more "journalistic" qualifications than Markos, I have some land in Florida I would like to sell you. Markos was trained as a journalist.

So I don't think the progressive blogosphere are the ones being "fooled".

RickinSF's picture

Simon @ 62:

While Rove has arguably caused more harm to our country than any other man in history, he has insight and tons of political insight, as disgusting as his opinions are, what in the world are Kos' political credentials? I doubt they match up. Just trying to be real here. If we're going to complain about all the non-journalists, we need to not fool ourselves into thinking that a blogger is a trained journalist.

Is this a concern troll post?

CoIntelPro's picture

In the play and movie, "A Soldier's Story", Adolph Caesar's character tells of a smiling, massa-pleasing negro who thought that pleasing his massa was his ticket to some sort of 'promised land'.

johnnycakes here reminds me of that guy that Adolph Caesar's character described. A minority whose sole purpose is to undercut all others like himself, to deny them credibility as well as opportunity.

It's too bad john willie here wasn't that guy that Adolph Caesar described. That would make him a fiction.

And how did they pry johnny's face out of brit hume's pants?

Dennis's picture

Gregory @ 57:

Dennis @ 37:

Otay @ 7:

The irony is that Markos has a degree in journalism. While Hannity dropped out of college. He couldn't even keep a job at a college radio station. Basically, a wingnut welfare recipient.

Tell me who the non-journalist is. AKA the drop-out dumbass.

The line of extremely successful people who dropped out of college is a very long one, Otay. So is the line of successful people who struggled early in their career. And having a degree in journalism doesn't make one a journalist.

dennis,
Do you not think that having studied journalism in university gives one greater qualifications to practice the trade than someone who decided that he couldn't hack the academic regimen? Just curious, because if that is the case then you clearly would not mind if Sean H. was your physican, right?

You are going to lose your reputation as the "intelligent" conservative by defending the likes of Hannity.

Hey Gregorian-

Of course I feel one's having studied journalism gives him greater credentials than one who hasn't completed any coursework, all things being equal. I wasn't comparing Hannity to Markos, though. The thread was about Juan Williams, and he think given the fact he has made a career out of being a journalist he is qualified to make the opinion he did of Markos, who hasn't followed a career path as a journalist. I don't care if he writes for Newsweek- I don't care if he writes for the WSJ or the NYTimes or all three at the same time to be perfectly honest.

I never considered myself at all intelligent. I've just always been impressed by people who have achieved success despite not having great education credentials; that's all I was trying to point out. If someone is a dumbass, as Otay called Hannity, and he's found his calling in life and has made a good career for himself out of it, then I think there's something to be said about him for the positive no matter what his politics are.

CoIntelPro's picture

Simon @ 62:

the only thing rove knows is where the bodies are buried. other than that, he's attached himself to the booshes for all he could get and brought jeffie gannon along for the 'joyride'. when I look back on it, it's obvious that rove and jeffie have one thing in common: blowing someone in the whitehouse.

CoIntelPro's picture

Dennis @ 67:

has ins-hanity ever explained the dead girl in his office? or his man-crush on juliana?

Otay's picture

Otay @ 64:

Simon @ 62:

While Rove has arguably caused more harm to our country than any other man in history, he has insight and tons of political insight, as disgusting as his opinions are, what in the world are Kos' political credentials? I doubt they match up. Just trying to be real here. If we're going to complain about all the non-journalists, we need to not fool ourselves into thinking that a blogger is a trained journalist.

If you think Rove has more "journalistic" qualifications than Markos, I have some land in Florida I would like to sell you. Markos was trained as a journalist.

So I don't think the progressive blogosphere are the ones being "fooled".

Just some more info. You can deny reality all you want, but it doesn't change reality. Doesn't matter to me. I get entertainment at wingnut's expense. Particularly the more dim bulbed they act.

Hannity:

Hannity attended St. Pius X Preparatory Seminary in Uniondale in Long Island, graduating in 1980 with a high school diploma... He dropped out of New York University because of financial issues, and decided to pursue a radio career.Hannity hosted his first talk radio show in 1989 at the volunteer college station at UC Santa Barbara, KCSB-FM, while working as a general contractor The show aired for 40 hours of air time and, according to Hannity, he was terrible.Hannity's weekly show was cancelled after less than a year when KCSB management charged him with "discriminating against gays and lesbians" after two shows featuring the book The AIDS Coverup: The Real and Alarming Facts about AIDS by Gene Antonio. The station reversed its decision to dismiss Hannity due in part to a campaign conducted by the Santa Barbara Chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union. Hannity decided against returning to KCSB.

After leaving KCSB, Hannity placed an ad in radio publications presenting himself as "the most talked about college radio host in America," and WVNN in Athens, Alabama (part of the Huntsville market) hired him to be the afternoon talk show host. From Huntsville, he moved to WGST in Atlanta in 1992, filling the slot vacated by Neal Boortz, who had moved to competing station WSB. In September 1996, Fox News founder Roger Ailes hired the then relatively unknown Hannity to co-host the television program Hannity & Colmes with Alan Colmes.

Markos:

Moulitsas was born in Chicago, Illinois to a Salvadoran mother and Greek father, and grew up in El Salvador. (Following the Spanish language custom for surnames, his last name is "Moulitsas", not "Zúniga" – See Spanish naming customs.) His family moved back to the United States in 1980 due to the Salvadoran civil war. He served in the U.S. Army from 1989 through 1992; while stationed in Germany, and after missing deployment to the Gulf War "by a hair", he changed his political affiliation from Republican to Democratic. He has described the military as "perhaps the ideal society – we worked hard but the Army took care of us in return."

After leaving the army, he attended Northern Illinois University and wrote for (and eventually managed) the Northern Star college newspaper. Moulitsas earned two bachelor degrees at Northern Illinois University (1992-1996), where he majored in Philosophy, Journalism, and Political Science. He earned a J.D. at Boston University School of Law (1996-1999).

Moulitsas founded Daily Kos in May 2002, and the site quickly rose to prominence. In its first year, Daily Kos received over one million unique visitors.

And I can see why Hannity took Boortz' place. Boortz, former King of the Knuckledraggers, the one afraid media is being indoctrinated by Islamics. Now Hannity has toppled the king. :lol:

Otay's picture

Dennis @ 67:

If someone is a dumbass, as Otay called Hannity, and he's found his calling in life and has made a good career for himself out of it, then I think there's something to be said about him for the positive no matter what his politics are.

And what positive would that be? That we breed a nation of innumerates? Or that we breed a nation that thinks AIDS is god's revenge for homosexuality? Or a nation that thinks Vince Foster was murdered by the Clintons?

Hannity's deficiencies go well beyond dropping out of school.

Dennis's picture

Otay-

How about your education and career path? Impress us. How have done compared to the dumbass Hannity.

And explain from your first post where Hannity was a welfare recipient, and how if he did that's somehow something to be scorned.

In your exhaustive work googling Markos you still fail to list what journalism credentials he has besides an undergraduate degree in journalism, work on a college newspaper, and starting a left-wing blog.

jr's picture

Juan Williams will say anything to get a pat on the head from the Humeians

Dennis's picture

Otay @ 71:

Dennis @ 67:

If someone is a dumbass, as Otay called Hannity, and he's found his calling in life and has made a good career for himself out of it, then I think there's something to be said about him for the positive no matter what his politics are.

And what positive would that be? That we breed a nation of innumerates? Or that we breed a nation that thinks AIDS is god's revenge for homosexuality? Or a nation that thinks Vince Foster was murdered by the Clintons?

Hannity's deficiencies go well beyond dropping out of school.

And you, you want a nation of people who cheer the brutal murders of four American civilian contractors in Fallujah–all of them war veterans with distinguished records, three of them fathers–with the following infamous words: “Screw them.”?

Otay's picture

Dennis:

The Shrub is monetarily successful. Does that make him smart? I rest my case.

The phrase I used for Hannity is "Wingnut Welfare", not welfare as in governmental welfare. Look it up.

What else do you need besides journalistic training, writing and managing a paper, and writing editorials for and managing an online journal to have the skills necessary for journalism?

Now you tell me why Markos does not have adequate training and experience as a journalist.

Otay's picture

Dennis @ 74:

Otay @ 71:

Dennis @ 67:

If someone is a dumbass, as Otay called Hannity, and he's found his calling in life and has made a good career for himself out of it, then I think there's something to be said about him for the positive no matter what his politics are.

And what positive would that be? That we breed a nation of innumerates? Or that we breed a nation that thinks AIDS is god's revenge for homosexuality? Or a nation that thinks Vince Foster was murdered by the Clintons?

Hannity's deficiencies go well beyond dropping out of school.

And you, you want a nation of people who cheer the brutal murders of four American civilian contractors in Fallujah–all of them war veterans with distinguished records, three of them fathers–with the following infamous words: “Screw them.”?

Straw man. Burn it down in effigy if you want, but I'm still standing.

Otay's picture

By the way, I want to know why anyone thinks Rove is even remotely qualified to be writing anything in Newsweek. Pravda I could understand, but Newsweek?

Dennis's picture

Otay @ 75:

Dennis:

The Shrub is monetarily successful. Does that make him smart? I rest my case.

The phrase I used for Hannity is "Wingnut Welfare", not welfare as in governmental welfare. Look it up.

What else do you need besides journalistic training, writing and managing a paper, and writing editorials for and managing an online journal to have the skills necessary for journalism?

Now you tell me why Markos does not have adequate training and experience as a journalist.

No, W's wealth does not make him smart. But he is smart, no one becomes governor of the second biggest state in the country and president twice without being smart. Certainly no genius, but he is smart, a lot smarter than anyone would ever give him credit for.

The wingnut welfare characterization is ridiculous and you know it. Hannity does well on TV and radio. If he didn't he'd be gone. If it were that easy, there'd be plenty of people with far more intelligence and credentials willing to sell their souls for the job.

Markos has the training, but again, what is his experience? To be perfectly honest, I could name three or four people who post here and blog that are far more talented than he is, far more interesting and far more more insightful. I wish him well, the guy doesn't bother me. But then again, I rarely venture over into his nut-land.

Otay's picture

Dennis,

If the Shrub were so smart, then why has he failed at so many things? And why, despite failing, was he still promoted far beyond his level of competence?

The short and simple: it doesn't take "smart" to gain power. Just connections. The Shrub just happened to be born with a silver spoon in his mouth. And a dynasty like the Kennedys to put him in power.

The same reason Amy Klobuchar got a job in politics.

Markos has had to work his way to the top. He didn't have a Sugar Daddy.

Dennis's picture

Markos has worked hard, I give him that. He's had the wind at his back on some things though. Good timing on coming up with a left-wing blog when he did. It'll be interesting to see how he does at an establishment magazine. Remember Wonkette? Maybe she's still popular but I don't hear her name much anymore after writing for Time.

As for your W question, it's too late for me and the subject of his success bores me. It takes more than connections and smarts. It takes mountains of drive and hustle, confidence and wit. And luck. Fire in the belly too. They said tonight Hillary looks like the only one who has that. Well, W had it too. Both Presidential elections and the first mid-term. He's been a huge disappointment to me and practically every conservative I know, but I still give him credit for some things. I'd have been begging to get out of that job four years ago if I were him. The amount of money he's spent would've driven me insane knowing how much more it cost than originally projected and what we could've used the money for instead. The first soldier's funeral I went to and spoke to the family would've absolutely torn me up. It's just not in me. But so many people want that job; Bill Clinton wants it a second time- it must be addictive. Gotta figure the one who gets it must have something special going for them to win such a coveted position.
None of the Presidents going back through my lifetime was an idiot, though. Neither is W.

Retired Navy's picture

Would like to mention that blogging is intended to be different from the reporting that a journalist provides for readers or viewers of their media. While bloggers are expected to provide personal insight, the reporting that a journalist provides was originally intended to provide factually based information. This is where the problem lies in that journalists typically omit facts intentionally or through negligence. Either is unforgivable and if you or I did the same sort of shoddy work our bosses would fire us.

From Merriam-Webster:

Main Entry: blog
Etymology: short for Weblog
Date: 1999
: a Web site that contains an online personal journal with reflections, comments, and often hyperlinks provided by the writer

News has always been intended to provide facts on newsworthy information. If facts are omitted or distorted the information is useless at best; harmful at worst as we have seen from the news provided by MSM leading up to the war in Iraq.

I find blogs more interesting and useful because I know that the information is intentionally slanted toward the view of the person who has written the material. It is up to me to find the truth by reading as much about any subject that I'm interested in to develop an opinion that I can feel comfortable with. The information posted here at C&L may have some slant to it, but they have never left out the facts in my experience. I don't believe Markos would do that either, just can't see the guy intentionally lying about pretty much anything. These people are not politicians after all. They just have political beliefs that they want to defend. Not some hyped up ideology that certain sociopaths of a different political persuasion have.

Retired Navy's picture

Dennis @ 80:

None of the Presidents going back through my lifetime was an idiot, though. Neither is W.

I agree. He's done rather nicely for himself to the expense of the people in the U.S. and the Constitution that he swore to protect and defend. While the cost of the war has been incredibly expensive, people like Bush and his war-profiteering pals have made billions above and beyond what we have paid. That would be the opposite of being stupid. Now the people who support him on the other hand...

Anais's picture

Dennis @ 72:

Otay-

How about your education and career path? Impress us. How have done compared to the dumbass Hannity.

And explain from your first post where Hannity was a welfare recipient, and how if he did that's somehow something to be scorned.

In your exhaustive work googling Markos you still fail to list what journalism credentials he has besides an undergraduate degree in journalism, work on a college newspaper, and starting a left-wing blog.

College newspapers aren't good enough background for you? Often they publish daily, take on important issues like funding, secrecy surrounding board of trustee decisions and compensation, crime and the like. They can be more hard-hitting than many small daily or weekly newspapers around the nation. You would like him to have worked for the NYTimes, which printed lies about WMDs and other false stories?
Markos has a journalism degree, but you don't need a journalism degree to be a journalist. What you need is the ability to think critically, write from a neutral point of view, discern what the facts are and communicate all this coherently. Few on Faux Noise do this; therefore, they mostly are not journalists. With the new reports on their softporn inserted into supposed news stories, the network is even less of a "news" organization.

Dennis's picture

Sorry Otay-
Markos doesn't write from a neutral point of view. Period.

I'm a fan of college newspapers; I wasn't knocking them. I didn't say I would like him to work for the NYTimes; I said basically I don't care who he writes for. The Newsweek gig is a good thing I think. Like I said, it will be interesting to see how his 'critical thinking, his neutral point of view and his coherent communication skills' as you describe, all stand up to much closer scrutiny now that he's writing for an establishment magazine.

James Ratliff's picture

I have seen this piece of shit sammons before he is a far right idiot. The problem with these idiot right wingers is they don't know the difference between right and wrong let alone right and left.
People like these are just fools paid fools but fools all the same. I was not able to get through the clip. when the insanity that is hannity came on I had to turn it off.
Whenever I see that particular fool I want to slap his stupid head off.
As far as williams goes he is like every other person on the msm. They are paid far more then their abilities can afford and therefore cannot be expected to give an honest answer after the people that hired them did so for one reason. They were wheather already ignorant enough to be a right winger or greedy enough to say what was expected of them to get their pay.
There is not one honest right wing TV or radio personality on any major network in America today.
That is why I no longer watch the news on any American corporate owned TV stations.
I quit watching when it became clear that the networks were beating the drums for war.
I have not watched anything other than the local news on TV.

brian's picture

What "irony" are you referring too Crooks and Liars? Juan Williams works for Fox and plays a left leaning puppet for a huge paycheck. I laughed out loud when he said Markos Moulitis wasn't a fair and balanced journalist. Like who Juan? You and Hannity ? Ho ho! Good one Juan.

Indigowatcher's picture

Fuck credentials, I say that daring to report the TRUTH like Markos Moulitsas makes him 10 times the reporter that Juan Williams will ever be. I think Juan's just jealous that he never learned the basics in journalism school (DID he attend a journalism school?), and Markos has proven through his actions that he's a hero, doing the job of a REAL journalist. Juan's just a mouthpiece for the Bush assholes, and he hates someone speaking the truth and showing him up. People are starved for straight-shooting journalists and pundits, and they're exhausted of people like Juan Williams, people we can't trust.

ckerst's picture

Where did shammity get his journalism degree...oh that's right he's a dropout. It's even unclear weather or not he finished high school, his bio is rather vague.

Left&Left's picture

Juan Williams is simply a bootlicking handkerchief head bought off confused black man in the white man's world.

Avenger's picture

Actually, the steepest irony is where C& L posts, "will Juan criticise Karl Rove who is Kos' counterbalance at Newsweek?"

This is precisely the point made by Williams -- 'journalism is increasingly made up of people who can offend the other side, which substitutes for reporting.' Yes, it's clear Williams is on one such show. But in focusing on the fact that its beloved Markos Moulitsas has been criticised, C&L undoes itself by demanding censure of Rove. This demand proves Williams' point, it doesn't defeat it: positioning Moulitsas vs. Rove is an epitome of the trend to put increasingly unabashed articulations of left versus right onto the airwaves to susbstitute for real reporting. C&L apparently misses the irony in a pique of fit over seeing one of its justifiably admired heroes serve as the basis for a pejorative comment aimed not so much at Moulitsas as an overall trend in journalism that is an otherwise legitimate point.

Avenger's picture

Actually, the steepest irony is where C& L posts, “will Juan criticise Karl Rove who is Kos’ counterbalance at Newsweek?

This is precisely the point made by Williams — ‘journalism is increasingly made up of people who can offend the other side, which substitutes for reporting.’ Yes, it’s clear Williams is on one such show. But in focusing on the fact that its beloved Markos Moulitsas has been criticised, C&L undoes itself by demanding censure of Rove. This demand proves Williams’ point, it doesn’t defeat it: positioning Moulitsas vs. Rove is an epitome of the trend to put increasingly unabashed articulations of left versus right onto the airwaves to susbstitute for real reporting. C&L apparently misses the irony in a pique of fit over seeing one of its justifiably admired heroes serve as the basis for a pejorative comment aimed not so much at Moulitsas as an overall trend in journalism that is an otherwise legitimate point.

Avenger's picture

Sorry for the double-post, and italics are an accident in both cases.

Otay's picture

Dennis @ 84:

Sorry Otay-
Markos doesn't write from a neutral point of view. Period.

I'm a fan of college newspapers; I wasn't knocking them. I didn't say I would like him to work for the NYTimes; I said basically I don't care who he writes for. The Newsweek gig is a good thing I think. Like I said, it will be interesting to see how his 'critical thinking, his neutral point of view and his coherent communication skills' as you describe, all stand up to much closer scrutiny now that he's writing for an establishment magazine.

Again with the strawmen. Journalism is not a job of he-said-she-said.

By the way, he effectively is taking a position as an opinion editorialist. Unlike Rove, who's training is in propaganda, Markos opinions will be dispensed with a large dose of reality.

greg's picture

The last two weeks I stop viewing the evening "news" channels. Especially that asshole Hannity. I too would like to slap him in the head. I can't stand him. These shows are too opinionated. I only watch the network news and CSPAN and in the evening I watch movies. I feel much better now.

Otay's picture

Well, the one thing the right wingers visiting this site have convinced me of is that Rove has no basis to get this job. Talk about no journalistic background, etc, has cemented the notion that hiring Rove reflects very poorly on journalism.

Furthermore, if Faux News is going to make a point about journalism, then they better get rid of their anchor, Brit Hume. He intersperses his personal opinions constantly.

ysbaddaden's picture

Irony is lost on them

Just like the lost glasses perched on top of their heads.

porter melmoth's picture

Juan Williams is very much a part of the 'new' NPR, which has plainly been infiltrated with neocon objectives and agendas. For anyone who doubts that NPR is no longer a 'liberal' or at least the thinking person's alternative to commercial media, I refer them to the NPR Check blog, which has plenty of gruesome evidence:

http://www.nprcheck.blogspot.com/

One of several NPR voices who moonlight at the better-paying Fox, Williams is the kind of deceptive reporter who's being tapped as a 'moderate'. Beware!

One strategy taken on by the new Bushoids in the Corporation for Public Broadcasting appears to be one of infiltration of the educated middle and upper class audiences. Universities are certainly one of their targets, plus people who think of themselves as progressive/Democrat/liberal, but are subject to persuasion if they find, say, their investments are at risk, or similar threats. This is a subject for a great deal of investigative reporting, and I wish an independent reporter would tackle it. NPR is highly unlikely to investigate itself. This is not a conspiracy theory, just one of the many examples of the insidiousness of neocon/Bush Machine imperatives.

Stupid Git's picture

I've had a subscription to Newsweek for the past 14 years (since I was a teen) and with the addition of Rove to their line-up I must say that this is the nail in the coffin and my subscription is now cancelled. Balance is one thing but this is ridiculous.

nameless's picture

From the FUBAR Presnit, we get FUBAR NEWS

= FOXED UP Beyon All Recognition!

ed  kriner's picture

Juan williams and journalism in the same sentence? Isn't that an oxy-moron?

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