White House lawyers and the torture tapes
By Steve Benen Tuesday Dec 18, 2007 7:15amWhen it comes to the CIA’s destruction of video footage of U.S. torture of detainees, the White House, on the advice of counsel, has stopped commenting. About the only thing we’ve gotten from the Bush gang of late were vague comments from the president himself: “There’s a preliminary inquiry going on and I think you’ll find that a lot more data, facts will be coming out, that’s good. It will be interesting to know what the true facts are.”
It will be, indeed. Today, the NYT moves the ball forward with some more "true facts," reporting that White House lawyers weren’t just aware of the torture tapes, but discussed their handling in some detail.
At least four top White House lawyers took part in discussions with the Central Intelligence Agency between 2003 and 2005 about whether to destroy videotapes showing the secret interrogations of two operatives from Al Qaeda, according to current and former administration and intelligence officials.
The accounts indicate that the involvement of White House officials in the discussions before the destruction of the tapes in November 2005 was more extensive than Bush administration officials have acknowledged.
Those who took part, the officials said, included Alberto R. Gonzales, who served as White House counsel until early 2005; David S. Addington, who was the counsel to Vice President Dick Cheney and is now his chief of staff; John B. Bellinger III, who until January 2005 was the senior lawyer at the National Security Council; and Harriet E. Miers, who succeeded Mr. Gonzales as White House counsel.
Who would have guessed? Oh wait, that’s right, everyone could have guessed.
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True lies, true facts... why quibble over semantics.
Absolutely false. No one guessed; everyone knew.
The claim that the White House didn't give effective approval to this was the most transparent lie ever told by the Bush administration, and that says a hell of a lot.
Congress will ignore this crime along with everything else. Congress: Yes sir Mr. President, heres the money you requested.
How to tell when a "loyal Bushie" is lying: His or her lips will be moving.
what the hell does Bush have on congress? Some late night video taped Congressional circle jerk we don't know about? :)
The only surprise here is that the cabal of evil men running the US is perhaps somewhat larger than many people realized.
So we have the AG, Bush's former lawyer Gonzo AND his present personal lawyer Meyers, as well as Cheney's lawyer AND his Chief of Staff talking to the CIA about these tapes as laste as 2005, but we are to believe their bosses in the White House didn't send them, nor did they report back to Bush and Cheney anything about their trip to the CIA?
Just when you thought you couldn't be any more insulted by just how stupid this administration takes us to be (or how arrogant they can be).
Any time cheney has his evil hands in anything, I do not expect it to be good or legal. I just can't imagine cheney, miers or gonzo saying, Don't destroy those tapes that show our guys torturing people. They might be needed for evidence some day in a trial involving this administration.
Nope, those words don't fit with the actors and their reputations.
“There’s a preliminary inquiry going on and I think you’ll find that a lot more data, facts will be coming out, that’s good. It will be interesting to know what the true facts are.” - the Chimp
I hope the ICC at the Hague or some other authoritative international body is making an inquiry into these war crimes. Bush is a war criminal who deserves to be locked up in solitary for the rest of his natural life.
If you destroy the evidence, they can getcha for destroying it, mebbe, but they can't getcha for what the evidence reveals...
Delinquent kids have a similar rule: Forgiveness is more easily come by than permission.
OT but kind of .........well you decide. Time magazine looked into Putin's eyes and made him their person of the year for 2007. Wonder what the chimp thinks of that?
Rob J @ 2:
Gee, I'm also really surprised. But I think this is a hard call as to whether this is the most transparent lie ever told by this administration. The list is soooooo long, it's difficult to decide.
It will be interesting to know what the true facts are
true facts? jesus.
Naw, it couldn't be. I'm surpirsed that this happened. Now I'll sit and wait on Santa Claus.
Damnit!!! I want my country back!
No John Yoo?
That rat-bastard made a career of justifying torture as a government weasel.
centralilgirl @ 15:
Who was it that said "If you're not angry you're not paying attention?"
We are so past due for some law enforcement.
If Bush and his WH minions discussed this among themselves, the original crime (destruction of evidence protected by Statute law) has been enlarged to include the crime of conspiracy. The nature of the group committing these crimes certainly puts them within the definition of "Corrupt Organizations". It would seem RICO statutes would apply.
We have gotten to the point where we accept the notion that a man holding elected office is protected from criminal prosecution by virtue of holding that office. The President of the United States of America is immune from criminal prosecution.
Good-bye, America. Hello, Rome.
I predict that as per usual, the Bush administration will get off scott free, no consequences, no accountability. Would someone be kind enough to please make a list of all prior allegations against this administration for lawless or unethical behavior?? Still, nothing is done. And nothing will be done this time. I'm tired of holding my breath, hoping, and feeling outraged. I literally have outrage fatigue, so all I can do now is ignore it all because I'm tired of feeling angry, particularly when there's not a darn thing I can do. No one is listening to the people. No one is defending the Constitution. We've become a country where certain people are above the law (i.e., Bush, Cheney, and all the other "president's men"). We impeached a president for lying about a sexual indiscretion, yet ignore lawbreaking when it comes to torture, lying about war, habeus corpus, illegal spying, corruption, and generally lying about everything and anything that really matters. I just can't take it anymore, so must numb myself to the corruption, ignore it, and move on. This is what our country has become. It's sad, very sad.
if Torture pRESIDENT Bush isn't actually Al Quaida - and he may well be - "the terrorists"
have already won.. it's all over, America is on it's last legs and done for.. last one to leave
turn out the lights and drain the waterboarding tank..
pissed off patricia @ 8:
Agreed. Those tapes were destroyed because they lead directly to the Bush regime who are the very ones that authorized the use of those methods. The Bush regime is doing what every criminal regime or organization always does. They destroy the evidence so that it can not be used against them.
[Quit spamming the threads with the same off topic message. Thank you-Sitemonitor]
"Your Government: Proudly Producing (and then destroying) Snuff Films Since 2003"
Is it any wonder that Busholini opposes funding of the World Court?
He and all his jesters need to be arrested, indicted and frog-marched into the Hague for WAR CRIMES.
Why again are these people not in prison?
I picture bush watching the tapes and thinking it was just a bunch of Hollywood actors.
Bush the Liar @ 3:
Oh, but of course! Par for the course with Pelosi and the Keystone Kongress. Have a look........
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/18/budget.battle/index.html
Nine years ago today President Clinton was impeached for lying under oath and obstruction of justice.
Obstruction of justice? That has a familiar ring to it. Where is that ring coming from?
Imagine what would have happened to him if he had destroyed evidence.
"It will be, indeed. Today, the NYT moves the ball forward with some more “true facts,” reporting that White House lawyers weren’t just aware of the torture tapes, but discussed their handling in some detail."
You know, that one word "tapes" always gets me because obviously there was at least one set or many duplicates. If there are or were duplicate tapes made then you have to wonder how the White House and its lawyers can be so certain that all of the tapes were destroyed and one won't just pop up somewhere or be used as blackmail against them. I wonder just how thorough the White House in making sure that all of the tapes were destroyed. In any event, you can be sure that when you work with or for the Bush regime you had better play dirtier than they do.
Way to go, Congress!!! Thanks for caving, yet again, to Busholini's demands!!!
$70 BILLION more for the never-ending carnage in the ME.
NO MORE $ for SCHIP.
There is no shame in DC.
Dammit, we already know who these yo-yos are.
I want to know when someone in this friggin Administration is going to jail for treason.
The court order refers to Guantanamo Bay, doesn't mention anywhere else. The "procedures" happened elsewhere. Addington wins again.
The Political Junkie @ 30:
Not until the administration is out of office. This Justice Department would never prosecute anyone in the administration for treason.
the Pinochetism knows no bounds with this crew
The White House is on fire!!!! OMIGOD!!! Unfotunately I think the evidence is being destroyed .It's a shame that we have to be so cynical but the timing is quite remarkable. Please note what offices are in that building.
wisedup @ 25:
"Hey Dick, which one of these guys is Jack Bauer?"
rome @ 34:
It's not the White House. It's the Eisenhower Executive Building which houses -- get this -- the OFFICE OF THE VICE PRESIDENT!
Seriously there is a fire .Turn on the T.V. It gets curiouser and curiouser!
I know it's not literally the white house (it's part of the complex)Can you say "false flag" . The point is the medeia will emphasize the white house angle.Can you say "false flag"
Many other offices , like ,oh, the White House LEGAL COUNSEL, NSA offices,etc.,etc. How conveeeinient!!!!!
Dr. Acula @ 29:
Reminds me of the scene in 'History of the World" when the Roman Senators jump up and say "F--k the poor!"
burn down the Reichstag!
Any other torture tapes are going up in flames in a building close to the White House as we blog.
Seems as though everything that happens has to do with lawyers. Damn, do lawyers have no common decency? Since when are they allowed to break laws with impunity? Where is the touted "self-policing" that lawyers claim happens? Where is the ABA in all of this?
i am watching cnn and they are covering the fire in w.h office next to Cheney.
i guess here goes all his secret documents permanently burned
The building that's on fire houses cheney's ceremonial office, not his day to day office. It's not the white house but the Eisenhower exec building.
Seems those in the white house are not too happy with this story today in the NY Times about the tapes.
I want to know when there's going to be a full, no holes barred investigation of this White House for massive offenses, including cover-ups. I suspect they've already destroyed much, if not all, of the evidence that would implicate them. I can't tell you how many times I've heard congressmen refer to this administration's assaults on our Constitution and lawless behavior, yet still no one even mentions impeachment. It's absurd. How do these people justify this?!?! I'm so angry that Pelosi decided long ago to remove impeachment from the table.
AND THEN THER WAS THAT FIRE!!!
Boy, if 'they' were putting together legal powerhouses like Miers and Gonzales, I wonder how much time 'they' set aside to teach them to spell 'Tapes'?
And after that failed, were they just left alone to play patty-cake, except when needed for a photo-op?
Probably all Miers did was serve tea and little cakes while the grown people chatted.
Preacher Boob @ 48:
Impeach Traitor Bush! Impeach Traitor Cheney! Impeach them now!
EISENHOWER BUILDING
Houses various agencies that comprise Executive Office of the President
Includes Office of the Vice President, National Security Council
Occupants included 16 Navy Secretaries, 21 War Secretaries, 24 Secretaries of State
I guess the paper shreder couldnt handle the the extra load. ;)
Since 2001 David Addington has been the architect and facilitator of many of the White House's crimes. This comes as no surprise whatsoever. Cheney and he are a match made in heaven when it comes to their evilness. Cheney's the politician, Addington is the legal gymnast.
Since 2001 David Addington has been the architect and facilitator of many of the White House’s crimes. This comes as no surprise whatsoever. Cheney and he are a match made in heaven when it comes to their evilness. Cheney’s the politician, Addington is the legal gymnast.
SEE :Michael Ledeen
yellow dog @ 16:
Yoo was probably busy working on "improving" the Patriot Act as he was back in 2001 when he wrote the darn thing.
Suddenly I've come to a new understanding of the phrase "thick as thieves."
It's not just the number, it's teh stupid. And the thickness of each of these players (from Abu G. to Harriet M.) is apparent on each of their faces as they testify (or feign forgetfulness) before Congressional committees. (:>
Slaw @ 12:
I think we can probably agree that this lie is at least tied for that honor, if perhaps an extensively multiway tie. But personally, the claim that there was consultation up the ladder without White House consultation and approval on a matter where the White House would so absolutely clearly demand either a final say or the plausible deniability of being able to claim that the tape destruction was an entirely rogue decision should it ever come to light--as it -did--doesn't even make its way to the starting line of the laugh test. I'd have staked my life against a box of Cheetoes™ that the White House gave the ok on this one.
The VEEP's office is on fire. Is this a coincidence?
rome @ 54:
Don't be silly. Addington facilitated White House crimes way back in the 1980s. Remember Iran-Contra?
Rob J @ 59:
I don't know what I was thinking. Good point.
The White House is denying the New York Times story which, of course, confirms it is true. The White House lies about everything.
Relax ,the secret service has determined , the fire was not intentional , case closed . Instant arson investigation. Call Rudy G. he knows where to send any evid ...er , er , potentially contaminated fire debris, a slow boat to China.
Publicus @ 61:
Let us recall the mighty Simpsons episode in which Bart becomes a TV star with the phrase, "I didn't do it". Over and over he'd say that phrase after obviously having commited whatever offense was referenced. After a while, the audience stopped laughing. The act had gotten stale and old.
In the complete fantasy world of The Simpsons, this process took only a few 'months'. We in the real world have been living that act for years.
AG Mukasey has a conflict of interest problem already, and should recuse himself and appoint a Special Prosecutor.
Jose Padilla's lawyers argued before the Florida Federal Court that Abu Zubaydah was tortured into saying Padilla was an al Qaeda associate. The DOJ dismissed Padilla"s allegations as "meritless," asserting Padilla"s legal team could not prove that Abu Zubaydah had been tortured. Well, it"s clear now that they certainly COULD have, if the tapes of the interrogations of Abu Zubaydah had been made available!
Now here is where Mukasey's role comes into question. U.S. District Judge Mukasey, now attorney general, was the one who signed the warrant used by the FBI to arrest Padilla in May 2002. Court records show the warrant relied in part on information obtained from Abu Zubaydah"s interrogation. So we have a problem Houston.
The then Judge Mukasey could only issue a warrant based upon legally obtained evidence, and confessions under torture are certainly not "legally obtained". So either Mukasey was misrepresented the evidence, and would be liable to be potentially a party in those who were presented with "perjured evidence"; or he knew that torture was used in obtaining the confession and ignored it.
In either case he is unsuitable to run an investigation, as it inevitably, involved himself. Thus a Special Prosecutor is necessary... Odds that this will happen? Zero percent.
Mukasey already has a PERJURY problem, because he swore to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution when he took his oath of office.
Mr JJ @ 64:
"White House lawyers and the torture tapes"
What do White House lawyers have to do with William Shatner's new rap album?
Is there anyone left in the country who is surprised that everything that happens in the Executive branch (Justice Dept., FEMA, ect.) is run out of the White House?
You might want to pay attention to this:
http://www.wtop.com/?nid=596&sid=1313089
Ever since the Courts ruled that Bush had to give up all evidence to whatever the hell has been going on, this fire is more than suspicious, to say the least.
Can you say "Bush is destroying evidence?"
The fire actually complements this story quite nicely. While it was only the VP's ceremonial office building, it does house Addington's everyday office, as well as some NSC staff offices. Could just be Addington prepping his testimony for Friday's hearings on destroying the tapes.
Random construction crew said they were working on the hvac system today when the fire started.
"true facts" ...is that like "fresh fish"?
The blaze was near the ceremonial office of Vice President Dick Cheney. Cheney was across the street in the White House with President Bush when the blaze began
Great alibi.
Come on people; Cheney's had enough experience with cover-ups to know how to do them without burning a building down. We're supposed to point out that he's an evil devil-beholden genius, not a bumbling buffoon.
Unless this fire is the result of some sort of satanic sacrifice gone awry, it's not Cheney's doing. That means there's as much as a 50% chance or so that it's not the Veep's fault.
"Who would have guessed? Oh wait, that’s right, everyone could have guessed."
Any day of the week, any of us, could round up the usual supects. They're the ones that need to be tried for war crimes against humanity.
pissed off patricia @ 28:
This Tom Tomorrow comic answers your question perfectly!!!!
http://www.salon.com/comics/tomo/2007/11/19/tomo/
Is the White House destroying more ‘evidence’?
White House complex on fire.
The networks are reporting that a fire is burning inside the Eisenhower Executive Office Building. The EEOB is located right next to the White House and holds much of the White House staff.
UPDATE: MSNBC’s Kelly O’Donnell reports, “The Vice President was not in the ceremonial office. He was, in fact, in the Oval Office with the President at the time the fire broke out and that no one believed to be a part of the office has suffered any injuries.”
UPDATE II: “Preliminary indications are that the fire may have started in a room housing electrical or telephone equipment,” adjacent to Vice President Dick Cheney’s ceremonial office suite on the second floor. 9:53 am | Comment (104)
Filed under:
Posted by Faiz at 9:53 am
Permalink | Comment (104)
104 Comments »
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/12/19/white-house-complex-on-fire/#comments
Constitutional scholar: 'At least six identifiable crimes' possible in CIA tape affair
David Edwards and Jason Rhyne
Published: Wednesday December 19, 2007
White House involvement in the CIA's decision to destroy videotapes documenting severe interrogation techniques of suspected terrorists could constitute as many as six crimes, according to constitutional law expert Jonathan Turley.
Turley appeared on CNN to discuss a new report from the New York Times, which indicates that four White House attorneys, including then-White House counsels Alberto Gonzales and Harriet Miers, participated in discussions with the CIA about whether or not the tapes should be destroyed. The talks also reportedly included David Addington, Vice President Dick Cheney's former counsel and current chief of staff; and former senior National Security Council lawyer John Bellinger.
"Just when you think this scandal can't get worse, it does," the George Washington University Law School professor told CNN's John Roberts. "I mean, this is a very significant development because it shows that this was not just some rogue operator at the CIA that destroyed evidence being sought by Congress and the courts. It shows that this was a planned destruction, that there were meetings, and those meetings extended all the way to the White House."
Turley went on to say that the high-level discussions, particularly those involving Miers and Gonzales, were "a hair's breath away from the president himself."
Asked whether "through inference" the talks might have extended to the Oval Office, Turley suggested the possibility existed.
"I think it's more than an inference at this point, which is one of the reasons there's a call for a special prosecutor," he said. "There are at least six identifiable crimes here, from obstruction of justice to obstruction of Congress, perjury, conspiracy, false statements, and what is often forgotten: the crime of torturing suspects.
Added Turley, "If that crime was committed it was a crime that would conceivably be ordered by the president himself, only the president can order those types of special treatments or interrogation techniques."
The Times reports that a former senior intelligence official told the paper that there was a "'vigorous sentiment' among some top White House officials to destroy the tapes." Other officials said that there was no White House push for their destruction.
US District Judge Henry Kennedy, who in 2005 ordered that the US preserve "all evidence and information" regarding torture and other abuses, has scheduled a Friday hearing to investigate the destruction of the tapes.
"Judge Kennedy is obviously not taking the advice of the Justice Department, that told him not to interfere," Turley said of the upcoming hearing. "Courts don't understand when the government destroys evidence -- particularly evidence that was sought by Congress and other courts. So it's not going to be a good day for the Justice Department."
This video is from CNN's American Morning, broadcast on December 19, 2007.
Video and Source Article
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Turley_At_least_six_crimes_in_1219.html
Comments
http://www.haloscan.com/comments/rawstory/8624a/?a=37565
Torture, Rendition, Conspiracy, Illegal Domestic spying, Treason in outing covert CIA operatves related to WMD monitoring in the Middle East, Intellgence Manipulation, Lying to U.N., Congress, American People, War Profitteering, Murder, Crimes Against Humanity, War Crimes.
High Crimes and Misdemeanors indeed.
Cheney’s Office Damaged in Fire. How Convenient!
Fire controlled at White House compound
San Jose Mercury News, USA - 16 minutes ago
Cheney's office was damaged by smoke and water from fire hoses, White House spokesman Scott Stanzel said. The vice president was not in the building at the ...
Cheney's office damaged in fire
San Jose Mercury News, USA - 16 minutes ago
By TERENCE HUNT AP White House Correspondent President Bush, and firefighters, wave outside the Eisenhower Executive Office Building, on the White House ...
Fire damages Cheney's ceremonial office
New Zealand Herald, New Zealand - 18 minutes ago
US President George W. Bush (L) thanks firefighters for extinguishing a fire in the Eisenhower Executive Office Building on the grounds of the White House. ...
The Walrus Says
Jamestown Press, USA - 19 minutes ago
Some yuletide fun from BJ Whitehouse. It's called Christmas Song First Lines and the point is to figure out the Christmas song by using the clue based on ...
Fire damages Cheney office
Gulf Daily News, Bahrain - 21 minutes ago
WASHINGTON: A fire broke out last night near US Vice-President Dick Cheney's ceremonial office, in a building overlooking the White House, ...
http://news.google.com/news?sourceid=navclient&ned=us&q=white+house+fire...
Cheney’s Office Fire
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20071219/white-house-fire/
"It will be interesting to know what the true facts are."
As opposed to, say, the "false facts" that this government regularly peddles?
WH contends lawyers "agreed" the tape should not be destroyed. However, after they learned of the tapes destruction, things are unclear:
- What did counsel do when they learned "their agreed position" was not followed?
- Was it a "concern" of counsel that they were consulted, agreed that the tape should be prserved, but then did nothing when they found their direction had been ignored?
It does not follow that they "agreed" to anything; or that they reversed themselves, did nothing upon learning that their "agreement" had been ignored. There is no evidence WH timely prosecuted those who destroyed the tape, and ignored the direction of legal counsel to preserve evidence.
It appears most likely, that the "agreement" by WH counsel is illusory; and that they failed to ensure they did take timeley action when they knew, or should have known in 2006 the tape was destroyed.
Concern: NIE on Iran updated because "no evidence" of a nuclear program.
Where did the "evidence" of the tape destruction fit in with the NIE's assessments in re other intelligence matters since 2005 destruction?
What saved Samuel Precott Bush (the original "Merchant of Death") from prosecution by the Nye Commision (mid 1930's) for his war profiteering during World War One?
The evidence was destroyed by fire.
But the nickname stuck.
MountainMan23 @ 83:
P-r-e-s-c-o-t-t
These bastards need to be put under the jail.
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