Rep. Wexler: No One Is Immune From the Rule of Law: House passes contempt resolution
By John Amato Wednesday Feb 13, 2008 4:08pm
(h/t Heather) Robert Wexler on the House floor Feb. 14 speaking out for the Constitution and the rule of law during the debate over potential contempt charges of Miers and Bolton.
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The Republicans disrupted the Lantos memorial service also. What a classy move...
Christy Hardin Smith says: Nancy Pelosi was absolutely right today (YouTube): "President Bush tells the American people he has nothing to offer but fear."
Today, the House has just approved H.Res. 982, which provides for the adoption of H.Res. 979, recommending that the House of Representatives find Harriet Miers, former White House Counsel, and Joshua Bolten, the White House Chief of Staff, in contempt of Congress for refusal to comply with subpoenas issued by the Judiciary Committee. These subpoenas were issued as part of the Committee’s investigation into the firings of a number of United States Attorneys and matters concerning the politicization of the Justice Department.
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frist?
Kiva says....
>>> frist?
yep, you nailed it...
BRAVO!! Someone grew some balls. Let's have more of the same. Hold these criminals responsible for what they have done to America.
outstanding!
Repubs whine and cry, but the resolution stands, call the sargent at arms, bring em in!
Now compare Wexler to the Boner show... big difference.
Don't let the Dems let Bush off the hook while they focus on something like the attorney firings, keep pushing for impeachment.
we should have a memorial for the "Rule of Law" in America.
and a trial for the gop, bush and cheney for kiling it.
Kick ass
Absolutely inexcusable of the Republicans to walk out in complete disrespect to a dead congressman. Talk about zero class.
Furthermore, I saw the horde of pissants bitching and moaning outside after the walkout, claiming the Democrats were staging political theater. Perhaps the Republicans shouldn't have exiled the Democrats to basements those 7 years. Payback's a bitch.
So, who's gonna enforce this?
Inherent contempt of court calls on the Congress' Sargent at Arms to go out and arrest, and detain those individuals in the bush white house contemptious enough to have the hubris to refuse to appear and testify under sworn oath. Will they squel on gonzo/cheney/roves' plans to politically manipulate the DOJ?
Serves them right.
Frame the campaigns like this for the elections...
DEMOCRAT PATRIOTS
vs.
THE CROOKS
We saw how many seats the republicons lost in 2006.
Just wait for November.
Robert Wexler and everyone.... great job and collaboration...
Get more congressmen to setup another youtube petition hold the criminals accountable campaign.
wasn't Lantos the guy involved in the "iraqi babies thrown from incubators onto cold floors" myth created to galvanize the US population for the 1st gulf war ?
Rep. Robert Wexler makes a sound like the Congress has as much power as a President...
JohnA @ 10:
The courts will enforce it...or not. It's much better than doing nothing and might actually yield something.
It's about time.
Wonder how long it's going to take the republicans in the house to get their drawers untwisted today? They had a hell of a bizarre day. They aren't used to that.
What is this 'rule of law' of which they speak?
What need is there of 'law' when there is the 'leader'?
Finally - and man those house republicans are classless.
I can't get to the bill though, it seems the link (http://www.speaker.gov/legislation?id=0159) is broken in the post.
Kinda funny though - speaker.gov runs Ubuntu - hell yeah! haha
Nobody hold your breath. This isn't inherent contempt; this is contempt of Congress. Contempt of Congress is enforced by...you guessed it...the Justice Department.
I'm sure AG Mukasey will get right on this. Actually, he's not sure if contempt of Congress is a legal order or not. He'd have to check on that and get back to you. Which he will...just as soon the ongoing investigation is over. What ongoing investigation? Take your pick, but it would be imprudent to comment on the contempt of Congress issue until all the facts are known and the senior staff have had a chance to review it. Someday.
Actually, he can't even start looking into it until everyone in Washington DC learns to play a musical instrument. Wouldn't that be nice?
Next stop: federal court.
andy @ 13:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Lantos#Nurse_Nariyah_incident
oh, and go get 'em wexler...somebody has grown a pair...
andy @ 13:
Yep.
But it's still uncool to pull a procedural move in the middle of a memorial service, regardless of how you might feel about the guy. It would almost be like protesting at the funeral of Iraq vet ... (remind me again which party threw fits about that).
living-abomination @ 19:
Nevermind, the link works again - sorry, must have just been the "C&L Army" all going there at once. =)
Here is a complete log of the contempt vote...
with video highlights...
http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=contempt
JohnA @ 10:
If you're asking which "cops" will enforce this, I think you can rule out the FBI and the Marshalls. IIRC, they're both under the DoJ, and after Mukasey's statements earlier this week, I don't think that's happening.
Secret Service is under the Treasury Dep't., but syill overseen by the administration. So I'm thinking they may deputize some officials and place them at the use of the Sargeant at Arms.
Start indicting and sentencing already. All these for Rethug for profit prisons springing up around the country need to keep their cells full and the shareholders happy.
Plenty of beds available and the money stays in "the circle" according to Rethug traditions.
Will the MSM give this vote and action taken the attention deserved? Wanna Bet?
As usual, I suspect the MSM will, instead, pick up the "thread" already tossed out by
bush-lite and other Repug's and will imply that this was a trivial/minor issue and what
the Dems should have been devoting their attention to was "terrorist and the immediate
threat of another attack". The MSM is as guilty as most of the Repugs when it comes
of scare/fear tactics and it will continue the beat of "be afraid, be very afraid".
JohnA @ 10:
So, who’s gonna enforce this?
The courts will enforce it…or not. It’s much better than doing nothing and might actually yield something.
First the Sergeant-at-arms...
Alas, it has been quite some time since a house of Congress sent its sergeant-at-arms trolling the streets of Washington for wrongdoers. Under current federal law, it's a criminal offense to refuse to appear before Congress when summoned or to commit perjury before a congressional committee. Such offenders are supposed to be prosecuted by U.S. attorneys. But that's exactly the problem with regard to the DoJ-related subpoenas—the people getting the subpoenas and the people enforcing them all work for the same boss.
Federal law can allow the executive to punish disobedience to Congress, but it cannot take away Congress' own punishment powers. Back in 1833, Justice Joseph Story said those powers were utterly necessary "for either house to perform its constitutional functions," a conclusion also reached by the Supreme Court as a whole in 1821. Once a house of Congress finds someone in contempt, it can order its sergeant to go after him. It's really that simple.
Quoted from Slate mag...
Dare I say it? I'm really loving Nancy Pelosi right now! Though part of me wonders if this entrie thing is a huge act of bipartisan war designed to distract the public. I think this is real though, she looked on the verge of tears.
So 12 months on from the attorney firings, a bill is passed to tell members of an administration that consistently bends, breaks and tramples all over the law that they have to comply with the investigation... by law.
So when do we get a Congress that works?
Wexler is winning my praise more and more.
Yeah!! this is what I've wanted to see for over a year now! Don't capitulate on this!
Frank Dufek @ 30:
On a subconscious level yes. Because the Dems are afraid to tell the American Public the country is bankrupt beyond repair and we are just clinging by a thread. And we will not be returning to the pre 2000 lifestyle-dream anytime soon. If ever again.
disillusioned @ 31:
Quit focusing on the tree. There's a forest out there called "Constitutional Crisis".
So when will Miers and Bolton be arrested and put in jail?
I've always wondered how the house is going to be able to fight this on "Executive Privilege" when basically everyone from the Pres on down has stated with regards to the firing of the U.S. Attorneys, no one discussed this with the president?
Unless they are just relying on the SCOTUS to just rule in their favor like in 2000. Bastids.
I know this is the wrong link to say this, but did anyone notice that Clinton has said that even if she doesn't win the delegates decided by the Democratic voters themselves she will stay in the race so as to garner the super-delegate votes? Who would support someone with such a contempt for democracy? What a power hungry empty person. Simply amazing.
http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2008/02/clinto...
"Hillary Clinton will take the Democratic nomination even if she does not win the popular vote, but persuades enough superdelegates to vote for her at the convention, her campaign advisers say."
Mark @ 36:
They are already prisoners to their own money and wealth so I think they get automatic drastically reduced sentences on that alone.
Mark @ 36:
And who knows someone in that jail I can send a carton of cigarettes to, in order to make sure Bolton and Miers get a proper reception? Hee Hee!
Lou Dobbs will definitely throw out the trivial issue bit. I used to watch him when he was concerned with the middle class, but now he has been on this illegal alien thing so long, he lost me. I can't blame any of my problems on an illegal Mexican.
New Mexico goes to Clinton. It doesn't matter though, because this is a small state with a caucus.
Breaking News
Gunman opens fire at N. Illinois U. hall
AP - 7 minutes ago
DEKALB, Ill. - A gunman opened fire in a lecture hall at Northern Illinois University on Thursday, injuring as many as 15 people, authorities said.
Amerika the Violent
"Dare I say it? I’m really loving Nancy Pelosi right now! Though part of me wonders if this entrie thing is a huge act of bipartisan war designed to distract the public. I think this is real though, she looked on the verge of tears."
Nancy is for real. I think it's been a mistake to personalize the issue with her and Reid and Conyers and the others.
There is a little "deer in the headlights" thing happening, but their weakness is their inherent GOODNESS and EFFECTIVENESS as legislators under normal circumstances.
These aren't normal circumstances. They're NOT good cops and they shouldn't really have to be. They're good horse traders, good "win win" compromisers, good messengers, good a making decent choices with other people of good will in an environment where everybody wants what's best.
Of course, Congress has never really met that ideal...but truly, day to day, for the most part it at least resembles that ideal.
What they've failed to recognize is that they're not just dealing with incompetence or a sea change in the will of the body politic. They're dealing with manifest criminality. Political pragmatism warps and distorts into collusion and capitulation under those circumstances.
It's like the patient is dying on the operating table and they're making dietary recommendations. Just playing the wrong game.
I think hearing all that anger from their constituency has been good. They can dismiss a few leftwingnuts as being unpleasable, but one thing all successful politicians are good at is getting a sense of which way the wind blows.
So, we've punished bad behavior. I ask you all, please, be prepared to reward good behavior. Don't take government personally. We have objectives and we have options for getting those objectives met. Exercise them with passion, but also discretion.
The cool thing is that when Boner saw what was about to be brought up, instead of staying and going on record as being against it, he called upon his party to cut and run. Does he really want that little phrase associated with his party?
Okay... the Lantos thing was the last straw. I want someone to start fighting back... AND HARD! These GOP idiots and cowards (no offense to the idiots and cowards out there... I know that's still giving the GOP a lot of credit) need to feel the consequences of these irresponsible and childish actions. What's the congressional equivalent of being thrown in time out?
Mark @ 36:
Are there any "police" that would enforce this? Or is this a half-hearted attempt to get votes this year? I mean, these people have had how long to do this?
L.A. Confidential @ 42:
Oh, shit - there goes the news cycle. Some relief will be provided by the baseball-steroids hearings.
pepper @ 38:
Dude - if you know it's the wrong link than why did you post it? Go back and watch some Fox news and quit coming around here trying to stir up trouble (we can do that quite well on our own thank you)
Peolsi's a sellout.
Good Job Wexler! But don't stop there. Head for the end zone and impeach the chimp in chief.
Hell I might just donate to your efforts. Gotta reward good work right?
At least this guys' doing something. More than you can say for fucking Pelosi.
Blue Lensman @ 47:
Yes indeed steroids, cleavage, killings, a collapsing economy about to go any day.
gOd Bless Amerika
Until I see those bitches (Miers & Bolton) arrested or testifying, I won't pop the champagne with this small victory.
Andy K @35
_______________
disillusioned @ 31:
So 12 months on from the attorney firings, a bill is passed to tell members of an administration that consistently bends, breaks and tramples all over the law that they have to comply with the investigation… by law.
So when do we get a Congress that works?
______________________
Quit focusing on the tree. There’s a forest out there called “Constitutional Crisis”.
______________________
enor
If there is no sound in the forest 'when a tree falls and no one hears it' ... can there really be
a Constitutional Crises if (most of) America doesn't notice?
E
(sorry about the lack of formatting but my "quote text" ain't working)
L.A. Confidential @ 42:
Seems there have been an awful lot of this sort of thing happening lately. I've lost count in just the last few weeks.
ConcernedCanuck @ 46:
Congressional Master-At-Arms has the authority to arrest.
E in MD @ 49:
There is not enough time to accomplish anything before the election season comes up, and then matters not who the Prez is, they will say like every Prez before them "let's look to the future, not the past" and the Regime can ride their riches off into the sunset. Sigh.
pissed off patricia @ 53:
Seems there have been an awful lot of this sort of thing happening lately. I've lost count in just the last few weeks.
It's out of control.
Filthy Harry @ 54:
When has this happened before?
pepper @ 38:
I'm betting that campaign adviser was not supposed to say that. Since Bill Clinton is a superdelegate and still has a lot of pull within the Democratic party, it sounds awful. Someone opened their mouth before the brain processes were complete.
pissed off patricia @ 53:
A conspiracy theorist would say . .
Who wants to bet on whether it was a "legal firearm" or not??
ConcernedCanuck @ 46:
Showmanship for Votes. As much as I hate to admit it. This system is BROKEN.
L.A. Confidential @ 56:
It's out of control.
I guess this is what happens when it's easier to get a gun than it is to be sure your vote gets counted.
Blue Lensman @ 58:
When our schools become killing fields you know we've gone off the cliff.
L.A. Confidential @ 56:
It's out of control.
Gee, now where would all this rage be coming from? As per the WH, the wars are going well, the economy is strong, the job market is good, we have the best healthcare system, etc... I'm baffled.
Dme's are desperate, this issue has long since passed, move on...........
ConcernedCanuck @ 57:
Read the article Canandian....occurred during Regan admin.
too little too late.
Quit focusing on the tree. There’s a forest out there
Which is why I'm wondering why all the back slapping and praise...
With the ever growing list of violations of the constitution perpetrated by the administration, this is the issue they focus (if we can call it 'focus' given the results for the timescale) their time and energy on?
Please, someone buy them a newspaper.
pepper @ 38:
Ya know, pepper, that post is probably waiting to pop up here, and I'm gonna try to avoid it like the plague. If you haven't noticed it, if someoneLogan, Amato, certainly Nicole and Bluegal) posts anything at C&L related to Clinton or Obama, they are called out as being paritsan for the other by both sides. It's getting ugly. I forsee a figurative blood-letting in the comments here that will make the literal Night of the Long Knives pale in comparison. Just sayin'...
pissed off patricia @ 60:
I guess this is what happens when it's easier to get a gun than it is to be sure your vote gets counted.
Serious social upheaval, tensions, and unrest starting to come to a boil.
Not a pretty picture.
Never dreamed I would live to see a mess like this unfolding in this country.
L.A. Confidential @ 56:
It's out of control.
Actually, the rates of incidents like this hasn't changed much lately, but the coverage rates of them has. It's hard to argue that it's a smoke-screen story that the media is using to ignore what's happening in DC when people are dying. Then you just look mean for making that accusation. But the truth on the other hand...
FreedomOfInformationAct @ 11:
This is not inherent contempt, which is a myth in our era.
Kids are growing up hearing that if there are people you feel are a threat to your safety, you can invade and kill them. Maybe they think that is the new answer to everything. Seems guns are everywhere today and that frightens me.
Will anyone actually get thrown in jail, though? That would be awesome.
andy @ 13:
And his picture was among those Sibel Edmonds put up on her website. No names, just pictures. If anyone has any more info about this, please fill in the blanks?
Concerning the procedural vote called during the Lantos memorial service: that asshole couldn't have called the vote if Congress hadn't been brought back into session. So... why the fuck was Congress called back into session in the middle of the memorial service? That seems just as disrespectful as Congressman Dipshit calling a meaningless vote.
TimV @ 68:
Actually, the rates of incidents like this hasn't changed much lately, but the coverage rates of them has. It's hard to argue that it's a smoke-screen story that the media is using to ignore what's happening in DC when people are dying. Then you just look mean for making that accusation. But the truth on the other hand...
It's not that hard to argue. All it takes is a couple well placed to news directors saying, "Give me more on the shooting. Nobody wants to hear what happened in congress today!"
Robin @ 65:
If they hadn't done it, you might have said they don't even try. Let's give them a little credit.
enor @ 14:
perhaps you should read the constitution.
Mark @ 36:
They are quite obviously besides the point.
As for Lantos, he was used by the PR firm, and the committee he co-chaired was used by it. It was an early example of the betrayal of the Congress by the conspirators in the House of Bush.
Ozguy @ 18:
god there is no wonder this country is so fucked. why don't you
ignorant asses read, if you can, the constitution.
I'm curious to go home and find out how the MSM is going to report this--or which side they'll report the most? I'm guessing they'll regurgitate republican propaganda.
Then again, Roger Clemens is the story today, huh. He'll probably get his ass kicked more than Josh Bolten and Harriet Meirs after all is said and done.
Oh well.
MagnificentAppendage @ 76:
Don't quote me on this but I think the repubs were calling everyone back so they could introduce a bill to adjourn for the day. So much happened today that it's getting all jumbled in my head.
ConcernedCanuck @ 57:
Ok, first of all, its the Sergeant-At-Arms (lol I must have been thinking of He-Man). And as per the Sentate's website: On the orders of the Senate, the Sergeant at Arms can even arrest the President of the United States.
Also found this on the web: In 1832, Sam Houston (that Sam Houston), then a private citizen, assaulted Ohio Rep. William Stanbery as Stanbery was walking home in Washington, D.C. According to Stanbery, Houston was indignant over something that Stanbery had said in a floor debate. Stanbery reported the assault to the House, which ordered its sergeant-at-arms to "take in custody, wherever to be found, the body of Samuel Houston; and the same in his custody to keep
So upshot is yeah, it's happened, it hasn't happened in a long time, but it CAN happen.
does this mean we're going on orange alert?
pissed off patricia @ 73:
It's very true. We have an epidemic of kids with zero coping, communication, and people skills.
pepper @ 38:
As if the Conventions in our history have never had any hard politics.
You better get a double-cream baby bottle for the next ten months. Cry louder!
Batocchio @ 74:
Well, not anyone with serious money, breeding or connections. I however may be beaten to death during a random stop.
dadams @ 81:
It's called "sarcasm". You need to get out more, dadams!
Blue Lensman @ 77:
No doubt. Instant ratings boost.
enor @ 14:
Rep. Robert Wexler makes a sound like the Congress has as much power as a President…
dadams Says @ 79 says
perhaps you should read the constitution.
__________________________________
enor
Perhaps you should consider it humor...
L.A. Confidential @ 49:
Yes, the blank slur is the only recourse from someone incapable of recognizing that she was a hero today -- and for a year over FISA -- and on so many other counts it takes scapegoaters to ignore her progressive accomplishments during a coup.
L.A. Confidential @ 90:
A self-fullfilling prophecy. The desire for high drama over substance has been carefully cultivated over the past 25 years.
SassySandy @ 41:
Filthy Harry @ 84:
Thanks..I was unaware of this procedure (and apparently many others are too).
If Bush is so powerful, can he make a law that even he can't break?
ConcernedCanuck @ 95:
Well with our govt's penchant for making up laws and ignoring laws, it's kinda hard to figure out whats what til after it happens
E in MD @ 50:
Ask Wexler. Ask him. Ask him if Pelosi has his back, and the answer will be yes, of course. And the same goes for Conyers.
You can't have a hero in Wexler and deride his leader(s). Unless you want to be clueless.
pissed off patricia @ 62:
That is the very sentiment of cancer. Have a care.
Paul in LA @ 92:
Your to gullible Paul.
L.A. Confidential @ 61:
Oh SURE, you hate to 'admit' that you shamelessly scapegoat and spread the defeatism. Day after day, the same show.
pissed off patricia @ 83:
It's my understanding that only the Speaker can call the House into session.
L.A. Confidential @ 100:
I will always cherish your kind advice. With both its wrong spellings.
[Do I have to reach back there and knock your heads together? End the escalation now,
bothall of you. Keep it civil, please. Site Monitor]Filthy Harry @ 84:
In our era it is a myth. You need to look more closely at American history.
Congress cannot reestablish itself by using archaic procedures, unlike the Executive, which by the way control the military. When Nixon was offered it, he demurred, but Bush would not. The Sargeant at Arms has a tiny staff. They wouldn't even open the front door of the Shitehouse for him.
And, more to the point, Speaker Pelosi, in whose office the Sargeant is, will NEVER use inherent contempt. NEVER.
So many LA gurl cat fights, so little time.
Paul in LA @ 101:
Paul you can't fix a problem until one is first of all willing to admit there is one. If an engine is broken you can not fix it by "willing the engine" to miraculous fix it self. There needs to be a clear and precise plan. Coming up with a clear and precise plan requires clear and precise thinking. Enthusiasm and idealism is fine but not if it throws everyone off center and out of focus.
Paul in LA @ 103:
Sorry
[Apology accepted. Glad I got your attention, if not a few moments late. :) Site Monitor]
[Deleted. And this is what I meant by "all" of you. Got it? Don't fan a flame war. Site Monitor]
Paul in LA @ 104:
Your comment doesn't really negate mine does it? You offer an opinion of what you think will or won't happen, whereas I was simply offering up some facts (as far as I can tell) relevant to current situation for informational purposes.
So here is something to think about.
For the past year the Republicans have been doing this crap to backstab the process and be a royal pain in the rear. They've broken the filibuster/cloture record (can't remember which) and throw hissy fits whenever they don't get their way. Despite this, the House got more done in 100 days this year than the whole last Congress did during it's full term. Additionally, several major fights have been won (such as the passing of the 911 Comission recommendations) Yet the perception of Americans (at least according to polls and approval ratings) is that Congress isn't doing anything.
So why is it that these childish tactics work for the GOP. Is it because the "liberal" MSM is maybe not reporting their obstructionism for what it is? Or is there something truly broken with the Congressional leadership on the DNC side that I'm missing?
[Deleted. Off topic. The topic is not the the political motives of another commentor at the site. Don't make it personal, please. Site Monitor]
L.A. Confidential @ 106:
living-abomination @ 48:
Fox News?! Are you as brain dead as the right wing simpletons that people here are attacking? I'm criticizing it from the left you idiot, it's about the people and not party insiders deciding who is the nominee. The people have no direct say in the regular functioning of the party, they only vote for nobles who make all the decisions, and have no say in things like economic policy. Now their vote is being lessened by elite party members. It isn't stirring up trouble, it's bringing up the fact that the Clinton campaign, who's shown that they have little to no connection to the general public, is trying to win the nomination from above, when the regular people who've voted in the primaries rejected her. She's putting herself above what the party's regulars have decided. THAT is stirring up the nest.
TimV @ 71:
Actually, the rates of incidents like this hasn't changed much lately, but the coverage rates of them has. It's hard to argue that it's a smoke-screen story that the media is using to ignore what's happening in DC when people are dying. Then you just look mean for making that accusation. But the truth on the other hand...
The timing is quite curious.
MagnificentAppendage @ 108:
Uh, I think that was a misunderstanding but point taken.
[Deleted. Refers to a deleted comment. Site Monitor]
WTF TOOK them so damn long?
Hey, didn't they subpoena Rice? What happened with THAT?
Nothing ever happens to these dirtwads. They get away with anything they want.
http://www.lysanderspooner.org/bib_poll.htm
Filthy Harry @ 109:
It does negate yours. Inherent contempt is NOT functional against coups. And FOR SURE it will not be used, certainly not by Pelosi.
So it remains as one of the myths used to bash Pelosi and the Congress. "Why doesn't she...?" is the form of the bashing over the myth, and there are plenty of them, because a whole class of people crawl through the documents looking lawyerly for ineffectual constructs which have been discarded by the leadership as useless, which they then polish up and profer to the public as the 'last straw' failure of the Democrats. It's a cruel rumormongering -- I will continue to oppose the criticism of Congress over archaic procedures that supposedly will save our bacon (nevermind this is a coup).
Jefferson's '603' is another example. It's almost a Libertarian kind of fetishism.
[Deleted. Still off topic. Site Monitor]
Sitemoniter: Opps, sorry sent #120 BEFORE I saw your comment. Sorry about that.
[It's cool. Just to let you guys know, the acknowledgement is appreciated. Now stop driving me nuts, okay? Site Monitor]
JTM @ 23:
It is especially unseemly in that Lantos, like his pal Feinstein, was one of friends the GOP ever had in the Democratic Party.
I meant to say "best friends" etc.
Paul in LA @ 119:
I never said Inherent contempt is functional against coups. I'm not even sure what you're talking about. Someone asked if the congressional Sergeant-at-Arms ever arrested someone, and I pointed out that it had. And saying that it will not be used FOR SURE is conjecture, though probably accurate, it doesn't negate the fact I stated that it CAN be used.
RickinSF @ 122:
Feinstein, to her credit, did vote yesterday correctly...to ban the CIA from using
torture methods..
Okay, okay...look...
Everyone is more or less on the same side here: Republicans = bad guys, Democratic inaction = frustrating
We can disagree about whether the inaction is unavoidable or deluded or intentional. We can disagree about how effective progressives can be in putting pressure on Republican lawmakers.
But what we CAN agree on is that these contempt citations are just and due. Issuing the contempt citations shows some faith in the idea that the process of justice is worth preserving even if the machinery is busted, if for no other reason than to highlight the bustedness instead of just shrugging it off.
So...there is no reason to violently disagree with ourselves on this topic. The House is doing the right thing...so far. Being pissed off and expressing that pissedoffedness is appropriate when our lawmakers are not doing what we elected them to do, especially if it's basic law enforcement.
But once they DO start doing what we elected them to do, we should offer support with just as much passion. It's not 'scapegoating' if you are holding someone to a standard. It is 'scapegoating' if you keep dismissing and insulting them when they do rise to that standard.
And don't worry, there'll be plenty of other opportunities to bemoan the Democrats' weasely capitulation. And I'll be right there.
But this today is a step in the right direction. We call our hired administrators "leaders," but WE lead THEM...NOT the other way around. That's what BushCo gets fundamentally wrong and that's why they're fascist motherfuckers.
So, good House, nice House, more please House.
*** this is so incredible ...
i heard randi rhodes mention this on her show earlier, and i just heard it myself... on AP radio news (XM/AirAmericaRadio) the walk-out was reported in relation to the FISA vote, NOT this contempt vote... i don't think i even heard about the contempt vote...
hmmm... now why would the media want to confuse these happenings?!?
eh?
RickinSF @ 122:
[Deleted. Watch the hyperbole, Paul in LA. Ratchet it down before I'm forced to ask you to take some time off. Site Monitor]
Considering Lantos' excellent work for San Francisco and the Bay Area's ecological balance, you are being quite stingy.
"Lantos was a well-known advocate on behalf of the environment, receiving consistently high ratings from the League of Conservation Voters and other environmental groups for his legislative record. [3] His long-standing efforts to protect open space ... brought thousands of acres under the protection of the Golden Gate National Recreation Area.[4] [5] In 2005 he battled back a stealth legislative effort to expand public use of the Farallon Islands, a protected wildlife haven." -- Congresspedia
Paul in LA @ 128:
Oh well, I guess fighting amongst ourselves is the point after all.
Silly fucking me.
Wow, did their testicles all drop at the same time? I am impressed, yet afraid they will back-off. Again!!
pepper @ 38:
Um, it's not Clinton that is the problem...it's the DNC caused this mess. The campaigns had to play it as it was presented. That's the way it should stay. I'm against any further re-voting. Clinton took the heat for staying on the ballot in Michigan, and the negative press when all those "uncommitted" refused to vote for her, which was the Obama campaign's plan. Their choice. They have to live with the consequences. In Florida, everyone had the same advantage, with Obama even running a cable ad after coming off his South Carolina rout of Clinton.
That said, Obama has a chance to win this outright, not by arguing that Michigan and Florida don't count. Frankly, he needs to win another big state besides his home state of Illinois. Texas and Ohio offer him that opportunity. If he can then the mess the DNC has created will be a moot point.
Each campaign will maneuver to have the most favorable outcome and if they didn't - why would you elect them? Obama and Clinton are both playing with the hand the DLC dealt.
And as for superdelegates being involved, with Donna Brazile threatening to quit the DNC if they play a role in selecting the nominee. Anyone remotely involved with screwing over Florida and Michigan should quit. It's because of people like Brazile and others that we're in this mess. Her other big screw up was Gore in Florida in 2000.
Try to stay informed instead about the undertow and check out Note to the DNC: Apply the rules equally & fairly:
http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/2/11/144234/675
JasonS @ 126:
it's true... thanks for the reminder... well said...
So, thank you House.
I'll believe it when I see Bolton or Meirs in handcuffs and I'm not holding my breath. Not a word about this on any of the MSM that I've noticed. Reid and Pelosi have got to be defeated in their next election. Useless. Ok Paul bot, now come on in and apologize and make excuses for them like you always do. Troll meat.
ashton @ 130:
I don't think the can back off now the vote is over :) This is refreshing.
" No One Is Immune From the Rule of Law"?
Sounds good. Lets see what happens when they run this by the Rove/GOP Justice Department.
andy @ 13:
it was done on contract by a right wing public relations firm that was hired by the bush partners in kuwait. the untold story was how saddam was lured into kuwait, who at the time was slant drilling iraqi oil with the help of bushco, so that bush1 could the invasion of kuwait as a pretense to invade iraq. bush knew saddam would be angry at the oil theft and used his kuwait partners to anger saddam to the point where he invaded kuwait.
Daisy Zimmerly @ 133:
I see it on CNN, but that's it. The MSM is a disaster as usual.
Daisy Zimmerly @ 133:
Again, if you want to see Meirs and Bolton in cuffs (or, at least, sitting under oath and answering questions) I would HIGHLY suggest sending supporting comments to Pelosi, Conyers and any other congressfolk backing this...ESPECIALLY the ones who have been dragging their feet or "taking things off the table."
If that's what you're interested in, anyway. If you're interested in continuing to lay blame, well, okay...tell me what that will accomplish?
I disagree with Paul because I see outrage as a useful tool and a valuable piece of citizen feedback. But it has to be credible, measured, and subject to revision if it's ever going to be listened to.
So, stay frosty. Stay mad. But support people who give you what you ask for. And if they give you half a loaf, offer them half a heart. But offer it.
This is about 15% of a loaf. But it's a good 15%.
Now, have no illusion:
We're looking at a few months of DOJ "studying" the resolutions and choosing not to comment on an "ongoing investigation" while the House leadership rolls their eyes and blames the administration for stonewalling. Taking it to a federal lawsuit or dispatching the Sergeant at Arms is the nuclear option, as far as established lawmakers go.
And I like that instinct in lawmakers. I hated it when the Republicans used the mechanisms of oversight to undermine their political enemies with no facts or just cause.
So, if the outrage we feel as this resolution sits there collecting dust is in any way to influence their thinking when it comes down to having to actually pull a gun on a White House aide and order them to appear under arms, we ought now establish that our sympathy is with this effort, not just against those who we've become frustrated with.
If they can't please us, they might as well not go to the effort.
Daisy Zimmerly @ 133:
Well, I'm not sure what you mean but Paul did go with the walkout. He stayed and supported contempt.
What a bunch of pussies. Party first, eh righties?
Brad @ 21:
yes and what jewish politicians not bothered by iraqys throwing muslim babies out of incubators?
JasonS @ 126:
So now you are going to tell me how I can be disagreeable?
Your face is busted.
I heard that your mom is a scapegoat.
Yay! More weasely capitulation!
/end juvenile abuse
Obama/Wexler: An Aggressive Progressive and a Liberal with a Vengeance.
LET'S ALL MAKE A LIST.........
Well it looks like when the republicans are gone, things get done.
Obviously this needs to happen more often, so I'm starting a list of things we can do to insure their absence, thus restoring the Constitution and rescuing the land of the free, and the home of the brave.
Things To Make The Republicans Leave The Room
1. Tell them Ronald Reagan has returned from the grave and is handing out ice cream cones at the Pentagon.
C'mon, now. I can't do this whole thing. Surely we can come up with a nice long one.
tyree @ 141:
Lantos was a secular Jew. He was rooked by the Bush PR firm.
Lantos was not a refugee from Nazism. He was an active resistance fighter, which means he risked his life again and again, in the cause of freedom.
You, as someone who risked your life for your country, can at least understand that his courage (and honor in that regard) cannot be doubted.
FreedomOfInformationAct @ 4:
Or arrest them for contempt... either way, those fuckers should be in jail!
Andy K @ 26:
this legislation allows Congress to bypass the AG.
JasonS @ 138:
I hope the house will keep looking into this even if it takes until the next administration. The precedent is frightening. I think the only reason we have Cheney breaking the law now is because the Ford administration and Congress didn't finish cleaning up the mess of the Nixon white house.
And I'd like to see Michael Bolton in cuffs.
zonk @ 145:
Tell them that the congressional pages are modeling their new workout gear outside?
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