GOP Operative Alex Castellanos: It's OK to call some women bitches
By John Amato Tuesday May 20, 2008 11:00am
If anyone wonders why Hillary supporters are upset over the coverage on TV and in the media just check out Alex.
CASTELLANOS: "Her problem is she's Hillary Clinton. And some women, by the way, are named that [bitches] and it's accurate."
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During CNN's primary coverage last night, a segment was about Sen. Clinton discussing the media's acceptance of misogyny into their coverage. Wolf called her words "provocative" as the panel begins to debate it. Later he says it's a little more difficult to discern than racism. Jeffrey Toobin makes some valid points about a NY Times article which referred to her as a "white bitch," (hello Wolf) saying that you can't say something like that about an African American. Not so for Republican Alex Castellanos, who not only disagrees, but thinks she is a "bitch" and says so with smile in his heart. Why does he have a seat with "the best political team" in America? Because he makes disgusting Republican attack ads. Being a distributor of slime in American politics really pays off. I'm sorry, he should be fired on the spot by CNN. What can I call John McCain now? Is it OK to call him pr*&k on TV? Is that OK? "Hi, I'm Wolf Blitzer and John McCain is a pr*&k. We'll have that scoop and much, much more as the best political team in America continues right after the break."
And to see Borger and Brazile---sitting there trying to have a rational discussion after he says the things that he does is just as ludicrous. Borger's retort is to say that a lot of voters don't feel that way and Donna mildly says Alex has a problem with her. I mean, really. What does he have to do to offend them?
Full transcript below the fold:
TOOBIN: I think Hillary Clinton is dead right. There was a column in "The New York Times" not too long ago where it talked about some of the humor in the campaign. And the punch line was a line that was -- that Hillary Clinton was a white bitch. You couldn't say that. I mean that is acceptable about a woman. You couldn't say the equivalent thing about a man. And I -- I mean about a black person. And I think appalling, but I think she's absolutely right that there has been a level of sexism...
CASTELLANOS: If I can disagree, I think you're dead wrong. She's dead wrong. And I think she thinks her problem is she's a woman. Her problem is she's Hillary Clinton. And some women, by the way, are named that and it's accurate. So it's...
TOOBIN: Well...
CASTELLANOS: ...she can -- she is a tough -- that tough, lady tough in politics, that's been her great strength. But let's face it, she can be a very abrasive, aggressive, irritating person and a lot of voters, I think, see her that way.
Earlier this year, MSNBC featured "expert" commentary by Roger Stone, the GOP dirty trickster, who bragged in the Weekly Standard about creating a group called C.U.N.T, to oppose Clinton's candidacy....
Unfortunately, at this point I think the media is actually hurting the Obama campaign with their continued sexist coverage. He is trying to reach out to her supporters and the press is making it much harder for him by keeping this hostile, demeaning discussion --- particularly this endless call for her to drop out --- roiling in the ether. The party will work this out, but the media, as usual, is making things worse...read on
Wikipedia: Castellanos produced an ad for the Republican National Committee attempting to discredit the prescription drug plan policy offered by U.S. Democratic Party presidential nominee and then-Vice President Al Gore.[7] Alongside images of Gore, the ad showed the word "RATS" for a split second, before the complete word "bureaucrats" appeared on-screen.[7] During the ensuing uproar, Castellanos claimed that the inclusion was "purely accidental.
Near the end of the 1990 U.S. Senate race in North Carolina, Castellanos produced an advertisement for incumbent Republican Senator Jesse Helms, who was then trailing Democratic challenger and Charlotte mayor Harvey Gantt.[10] The ad depicts a middle-aged, working class married white man receiving and crumpling a job application rejection notice sent because the job had been "given to a minority."[10] The ad then references Gantt's supposed support for racial quotas and Helms's opposition.[10]
Kathleen Hall Jamieson, an expert on political communications,[11] has written on the subliminal messages of racial fear encoded into this advertisement.[10] She believes that the signals may include a screen transition showing the hand's crumpling of the image of Gantt's head and a black mark on the rejection notice in the shape of an African-American hand holding a handgun.[10]
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FOIST!!!!
Men don't notice misogyny and that's not a surprise. It's inherent in a lot of things.
i can't believe we have to actually tell grown ups that you shouldn't do this.
Crappy News Network just keeps gettin crappier.
[Please don't advocate violence on this site-Sitemonitor]
[Marge, you are off topic. Deleted-Sitemonitor]
So...since Castellanos thinks it's acceptable to call some women bitches...wonder what he would think if some people called him a wetback? *disclaimer to site monitor or anyone else that might take offense, I used that term to make a point, I am not referring to Castellanos or to anyone of Hispanic descent, as such.*
My definition of a bitch is a woman who won't do what a man tells her to do.
There's really no male correlate to the term. More sexism.
[Deleted. Off topic-Sitemonitor]
So....
I gues there's no problem with me referring to repubs as "Lying sacks of shit".
I mean...if it's ok to call women bitches....
Just sayin'.
Marge @ 6:
The only negative comments towards a candidate here are YOURS.
HE gets the job done; SHE is abrasive
HE is dynamic; SHE is aggressive
HE is tenacious; SHE is irritating
MargeAggedon @ 2:
Even a lot of women are blind to it, because it's THAT inherent.
[Off topic. Still]
We should be a-ok with "Pr*&k" because it applies to certain male personalities of all ages. including mcinsane.
And go f*ck yourself is just two guys disagreeing about national policy. no biggie.
GOP Operative Alex Castellanos: It’s OK to call some women bitches
I'm sure tina tey and [Deleted. Do not start a flame war-Sitemonitor] would agree.
JudyLou @ 8:
I have to disagree with your definition or else I'm pretty much surrounded by bitches. And I know they can't all be bitches ;)
MargeAggedon @ 2:
InHERent?
JudyLou @ 8:
Ooookaaaay...
Difference between a bitch and a slut....a slut sleeps with everyone, a bitch sleeps with everyone...but you.
I'm for Obama but I will defend Hil against the sexist stuff. It takes a "b*tch" to get things done. And guys, that doesn't mean you are "pw'd"...
" And some women, by the way, are named that [bitches] and it’s accurate. "
Don't be critical, people. This guy knows his bitches - after all, he is a son of one.
Pure class.
And @6:
[Deleted]
Marge, did I miss something?
[Yes, you missed the part where I deleted Marge's post, then had to delete 4 others that quoted her, like you did-Sitemonitor]
Leave it to the GOP to just not know when to stop digging a hole. However i would have to say that in this primary season, I can certainly understand why people would think of both Clinton and Geraldine Ferraro in unflattering terms. I would just be more specific and colorful in my insults than "bitch". Something along the lines of "fucking-looking-to-be-anointed-president-on-her-husband's-coattails-who-got-taken-to-the-shed-by-a-skinny-kid-from-chitown-so-to-fight-back-
she-has-injected-the-race-card-and-played-the-gender-card-who-doesn't-know-when-she-has-lost-the-fucking-race-and-has-surrounded-herself-with-
people-like-Penn-Ferraro-and-Mcauliffe-who-don't-know-wtf-they-are-talking-about-trying-to-kill-my-party-for-her-own-political-gain-dumb-ass-bitch"
[Edited for wrap-Sitemonitor]
More proof that reich-wingers ARE misogynist scumbag losers.
This is just a little reminder that despite what Hillary thinks, she has more in common with Barack Obama then she thinks.
It will be quite easy for the GOP enablers to unhook the bigotry caboose from the Get Obama Express and attach it to the Destroy Hillary Express. Alllllllllllllllllll Aboard...our final destination will be Misogyny....with stops at Sexism Station, Feminaziville and Bitchtown.
23 ebone
Leave it to the GOP to just not know when to stop digging a hole.
I dig
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dl5YqYogYwg
ebone: Hillary is NOT dumb!
ebone @ 23.....
Awesome, lol!!!
Here's one where there not so high
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dl5YqYogYwg
Bonkers Hussein @ 22:
Ah. Nevermind. Looks like the SM deleted it anyway. Marge's post won't be discussed. (At least now I know I DIDN'T miss something)
;)
I think Hillary has a right to her opinion and the way she felt some of the coverage went the route of sexist. Then of course, this clown just proves her point. It doesn't matter much: president or no, she's going to be one of the most powerful politicians in America for decades to come and idiots like Castawhatever can just chew on their fists in angst over that fact.
Dems '08!
ebone @ 23:
Okay people, that's a wrap!
Where does a man with a latino name get to call anyone a name? and I was surprised the other guests(incl. the women) did not call him on it! It was so embarrasing to watch.
abiodun @ 32:
Where does anyone with any kind of name get to call anyone a name?
Fixed it.
MargeAggedon @ 2:
And many women don't notice misandry, and that's not a surprise either.
It's a two-way street today, in 2008. Neither gender--NEITHER--has a monopoly on purity.
To deny this is just so much PC poo. In my opinion, of course.
"Bitch" is the mating call of the North American Asshole
miss_kitty @ 33:
+1
And:
Uh...SM,
I, uh, did it again @30. Sorry, you and I are sort of cross-posting. Didn't mean to be a pain.
Back OT:
I look forward to when we get past the primary and on to the task of choosing our next president and the national dialog will be...cleaned up...mature...and uh, we can...reasonable conversations will be the uh....norm...
What was I saying again?
When Clarence Boddicker called those two girls "bitches" in Robocop ("Bitches, leave!"), that was ok!
abiodun @ 32:
Um, it's a free country.
Here is a question I would like to ask all three candidates: John McCain, Barrack Obama, and Hillary Clinton. Would you ever want your daughter to run for president knowing that she will be called a bitch and and whore, especially when this will be done by many of the people who currently support your candidacy?
And to see Borger and Brazile—sitting there trying to have a rational discussion after he says the things that he does is just as ludicrous. Borger’s retort is to say that a lot of voters don’t feel that way and Donna mildly says Alex has a problem with her. I mean, really. What does he have to do to offend them?
I don't know, maybe call her a c*nt?
It does not surprise me at all - this one word is just one in a long line of slander and name calling of Hillary. CNN & MSNBC turned their networks over to the Obama campaign many months ago and the "bitch-slapping" began. Obama and his networks is also where all this race-baiting has come from. And we are told that his supporters are so much smarter than hers. More gullible - yes, smarter - no.
Whoever is the next president, we the people need to demand that the license be pulled from these 24 hr. propaganda networks and they be shut down. That alone will go a long way in saving America and making people smarter and kinder.
You often hear males being referred to as "bitches" these days. Can we call that progress?
I'm a little afraid to comment on this thread...
Okay, I keep hoping Blitzer and the rest will take a note from Tweety and slam these jokers down when they say ridiculous sh*t. Better yet not to have them on the show at all, but it seems like he and the rest are happy to read their teleprompted questions and parrot the noise.
Everyone gets touchy with topics like these, but they can and should be discussed. The problem is that sexism and racism aren't discussed enough, and that often when it is publically discussed, it's by people who say uneducated, awful things. If you discuss is rationally, there's often some over-sensitive p.c. reactionary standing by to take offense to anything anyone says.
Time for Obama to make a speech about this. Unfortunately the MSM will do their best to undercut the intent of it.
Castellanos is just warming up for what he and his cronies are going to be calling Obama.
Lollimom @ 34:
I didn't know there was a word for it! Thanks, Lollimom.
Indeed, I hate being pigeonholed as "acting like a man/guy/boy" when in disagreement with a woman. It has happened plenty of times and can be very irritating as it is as dismissive as any other kind of generalization. It certainly doesn't get us anywhere as the topic of discussion gets sublimated as I bristle at (using my new word!) the misandry directed at me and have to defend myself against it (which may have been the intent. Hah!). I'm not saying I haven't been stupid enough to do the same thing in some of my less-than-proud moments, but it does go both ways from time to time.
It's no surprise they don't jump on him with both feet for a comment like that, they're all in the tank for Obama (especially Brazile) and any negative attack on Hillary is fine by them.
If they want to discuss this topic in detail they should have the author of the article that Hillary read and is discussing in the clip.
Marie Cocco shows all the damning cases where sexism is used to slam Hillary without anyone from the party stepping up to defend her against these tactics.
Read it for yourself...
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/05/clinton_campaign_broug...
A Hollywood star walks into a pet shop to buy a dog.
She points at one and asks, "How old is that one?"
The owner replies:"That bitch is 2 years old"
The star pales, and is visibly shaken.
The owner says: "Oh I am sorry, did the use of the word offend you?"
The starlet replies: "No, I just didn't know you could call dogs that too" :)
But no, you don't have a male version of it, as bastard or mongrel is a definition of "race" mix in dogs, and not really gender. I am still happy to sit far away from the freakshow that is US politics though, your media could so benefit from the "Be Cautious poster" (spelling) that our media have imposed on themselves, and live by.(for the most part)
Blue Lensman @ 42:
You talkin' to me, "punk"?
/you know I am kidding
Bluesage @ 41:
I totally agree with you on this. If Grampa succeeds in stealing the election, the current corporate media monopoly is safe.
But I'm quietly hoping that both Dem candidates realize that the Telecommunications Act (1996?) totally screwed the ability of Dems to get a fair voice in corporate media.
I'm hoping that once one of them is in office, the hatchet will swing hard and the monopolies will be destroyed.
ebone @ 23:
Actually it was Obama who injected the racecard
"RUSSERT: In terms of accountability, Senator Obama, Senator Clinton on Sunday told me that the Obama campaign had been pushing this storyline. And, true enough, your press secretary in South Carolina -- four pages of alleged comments made by the Clinton people about the issue of race.
In hindsight, do you regret pushing this story?
OBAMA: Well, not only in hindsight, but going forward. I think that, as Hillary said, our supporters, our staff get overzealous."
And after Obama started calling women "Sweetie" repeatedly I think it is perfectly reasonable to comment on sexism.
and it is ok to call some people pricks
Marge @ 6:
Lady, you've got some real problems with reality. When Hillary and her supporters say "Obama is unelectable" it is a subliminally dog whistle statement purposely made to ignite fragile minds into thinking this primary is about race. And to say that Obama can't get ''white votes" is a race baiting lie. There are some people no matter what Obama does will not vote for him. How can he change the mind of a chronic bigot? "Hillary's do anything to win" strategy went over the top and is the main reason that she is a loser.
Well, the Republican party is Exxon's bitch.
Completely unacceptable. But of course, now it's been said and the damage is done. I'll write and I hope others are as well. It can't be allowed to go unchallenged.
At the very least I want equal time. Calling McCain a "Prick" on national TV would just about do the trick.
*
Fiona9721 @ 50:
Huh. I only heard about the one instance. He said that repeatedly?
My mom used to use "sweetie" to just about anyone of us youngsters and our freinds, all the way through our teens and even 20's (maybe she still does. I'll pay attention next time I see her). I'd still recommend Obama stop referring to people outside of his circle of friends and family as "sweetie", but it could be that he didn't mean any....no wait, I already see the flaw in my thought: it would be all well and good if he was also calling men "sweetie" as well, but I think we can be pretty sure that he didn't and doesn't. Yeah, I agree with you then: he might want to look into that.
Rusty Shackleford @ 44:
You know they're dying to drop the "N" bomb....
Not mysogeny. It's perfectly understandable for people who see their candidate as being the only true hope for pulling us out of a downward spiral to have strong feelings about a supposed ally blocking our only hope for personal gain. It wouldn't sound right to call her an a-hole, but the sentiment is there. Just like the truck that swerved off the road this weekend, sending a rock up to chip the windshield of my new car. I yelled MF'er!, but that would have been inappropriate had he been female. It's Hillary's job to demonstrate that she's not trying to derail the Democratic primary process for personal reasons.
liberalHUSSEINmoderation @ 14:
My apologies SM
Blue Lensman @ 42:
No, because it's meant as a demeaning emasculating term, like "you're not men, you're women." What's worse is that the assumption is the the B***= women.
And if I may add one more thing. The whole delusion about reclaiming words (a la Tina Fey and the B-word, and certain African Americans and the N word): it doesn't work. The words have a history and hurt and once you allow it to become acceptable, then you can be sure that it will be used to attack you. If Tina Fey hadn't had that whole rant on "B*** is the new president," Tracy Morgan wouldn't have come back and said "Black is the new president, B***. " Fey was using it in what she thought was an empowering way, but Tracy showed her how easy it is for any idiot to turn it around. The same with the N word. Every day on the subway, I see kids (black, Hispanic, and sometimes white) call each other N*, sometimes as a replacement for "dude," but sometimes as an insult. I don't think MLK and all those other civil rights leaders worked so hard, so that some wanna-be gangster suburban kid could go around hurling the N word without a trace of knowledge about its history.
Anyway, B*, Ho, N*, etc. are now widely acceptable. The first two are heard on a regular basis on prime time TV, so is it any surprise that idiots who've said these words for years to demean people now feel freer to use them publicly?
Bonkers Hussein @ 55:
Maybe he should just use "baby". A guy can use that with a man or a woman.
Problem is, it's hard to pull off "baby" without sounding anachronistic, douchey or just plain uncool. Very few can pull off the usage and sound hip. ;D
Left & Left
Many people say Obama is unelectable because that is the reality of it. America still has plenty of racism and sexism and all other kinds of ism's but his unelectability is not based on race alone. Of course some will not vote for a black man and some will not vote for a woman but I think more people are looking at the economy and the level of experience and they see that he has surrounded himself with some pretty unsavory characters to get where he is. It's going to be a problem for him. He's not proven himself on the national stage. Now I think voting McCrazy is, well, crazy but thanks to that disgusting media many see him as viable and will make that choice if Obama is the nominee. I also think that Hillary can handle anything thrown at her by the GOP.
Of course she will be fighting both McCrazy and the media and this story alone tells you what they will try to do to her. But, she's still standing and she will prevail if she is the nominee.
I think it's okay to call a woman a "bitch."
My sister can be a bitch at times, and she relishes in that fact.
I know serveral women in my life that are perfectly happy to have that kind of title.
Now, will I call them that in public, much less on national cable TV? No.
Like I wouldn't call any of my male friends "asshole" in public.
Sure you can call a woman a bitch, but there is a thing call decorum (apparently CNN lacks any shred of decency or decorum).
Bill @ 59:
It can be emasculating, but much more often it's pretty friendly. I don't think that WoW leets are trying to emasculate anyone, exactly, when they shout, "PWNED ALL U B33YOTCH3S!1!!!"
Words lose their meanings over time. Hell, I can't figure out what properties in anyone compare to those in a female dog.
There's a very delicate balance between epithets as deeply offensive insults and reclaiming these same epithets as a means of pride.
i.e., Bitch, queer, n**ger, et al.
Color me deeply ambivalent. Both positions come from places of pain.
GOP Operative Alex Castellanos: It’s OK to call some women bitches
Here's my favorite kind
http://www.newsarama.com/IDW/Simmons/Dominatrix%20poster.jpg
HRC is certainly dogged in her quixotic quest for the nomination, but that doesn't make her a bitch. Though I never have supported her for the nomination, I have always admired and respected her (but not her campaign!), and took great exception to her portrayals in the NYT (that liberal rag) early in the primary season. That alone made me very sympathetic toward her, even though I am a older elite, over-educated male. I would love to see a woman in the Presidency, but I love Obama more this go-round. I have pointed out before, and I say it again, that the Democrats this election cycle have had the most amazingly competent, attractive, and electable roster of candidates in living memory. ANY of them would make a decent-to-excellent President. And look what the GOP had to offer. Embarrassing.
What exactly was Castellano supposed to add to a conversation about the two Democratic candidates? We can only assume that he was there to throw fuel on the fire - you know, for balance.
It's like on MSNBC they always have Pat Buchanan on the panel but there he's always the most reasonable which just makes me think I'm living in Opposite World.
.
SEXISM... A defining quality.
.
What would that make michael whiner?
Did his mother make him come in every afternoon for violin lessons?
We had a thread on this not long ago (2 weeks?). Various comments described Senator Clinton as a "whore" and there were a number of commentors trying to claim that that word was acceptable (at least when applied to Senator Clinton). Have all those people left C&L? Or is "bitch" somehow a more offensive term than "whore" to throw at a woman?
As far as I can tell, once you use either of these terms as an insulting attack on a woman, you are lowering yourself to the same level as people hurling racial epithets at Senator Obama.
I have no problem using any word in context. The word "bitch" would not be wrong when describing someone who protectively guards her territory, keeping other females away from her mate(s). Not relevant to Hillary here.
There are a host of animal analogies that are no more or less offensive when used correctly.
Her tactics during this race has proven beyond any doubt that she is indeed a Bitch! It may not be polite to say it but it is the truth nonetheless.
Andy K Jong Il @ 60:
So "Groovy, baby" on a hot summer's eve is out then...?
Bluesage @ 67:
You find Pat Buchanan the most reasonable?? Sounds like you've created your own Opposite World.
miss_kitty @ 33:
Thanks miss kitty for editing that hateful comment. People with Latino names fight for this country, are mayors of major cities, are doctors, lawyers, senators, teachers, so that comment is really uncalled for and extremely ignorant. You may even live in a Latino named city like San Francisco, San Antonio, Los Angeles, etc. It's like calling a woman a bitch, it's wrong and two wrongs don't make a right.
Is this really more notable than Obama sealing the deal by winning Oregon?
Alex Castellanos is a piece of shit.
That's the same CNN that has Beck.
That's the same CNN that has race-baiting Begala.
That's the same CNN that has lying ass wolf "SHILL" blitzer.
That's the same CNN that has lying ass howie "concern troll" kurtz.
so where is the surprise.
What they really should say is that they wouldn't say that about
bay(atch) buchanan
mAnn colder
geral(dinosaur) ferraro
....
Proud2bHumble Hus(in)sein @ 73:
It depends on how it rolls off your tongue. Yer just gonna haveta trust yerself. Whatever you choose, stay away from, "Groovy, bitch". Unless you and yers is into roleplaying.
I took sales' courses over the years in which dialogue was given to us to use on sales appointments. Most of the courses were given by men. I would listen and think to myself that women could not say a lot of the things that we were told were good sales lines. Why? Because a woman saying those things would be looked upon as "pushy" or "ballsy" or "aggressive". And, of course, that would never do. Men would be seen as strong, authoratative, etc. saying the same things.
And that's why I knew early on that Hillary was going to have trouble. She would be considered shrill, negative or bitchy. If she showed her feminine side she would be too weak for the job. I believe its called Catch-22.
By the way, Mr. Castellano, looks like a fat macho-man loser. I hope I don't appear sexist for saying that, though.
sexism and misogyny are very real. just as are racism, ageism, and all other forms of 'isms and schisms' (credit: RNM).
but, what gets me all riled up, is the claim that one is being sexist if they don't support hillary for president. if hillary wins the dem nomination--however impossible that is--i would not vote for her. it has NOTHING to do with her gender. it has everything to do with her politics and the clinton legacy. that is not being sexist, that is being responsible.
We need some MSI up in here.
Blue Lensman
You're kidding, right? Keith Olberman, Rachael Maddow and Gene Robinson are so in the tank for Obama that no reasonable discussion can be held with any of them. Those three have completely jumped the shark to the point of being obvious. So yes, those characters make a man I have never considered reasonable sound almost reasonable. That's my opinion and I really don't care to get into a pissing match with you about it. But, thanks so much for the insult.
Bluesage @ 67:
Pat Buchanan's Racist Paranoid Freakout
Posted by Brave New Films, Brave New Films at 12:29 PM on May 15, 2008.
You know you're in trouble when Chris Matthews is the voice of reason...
I'm a woman, my take
No, woman should be calls a B*tch!
but i do not think it is sexist!
if Obama did somthing wrong, we would call him an A**hole! i do not see people saying its sexism against him.
Its more of a derogetary term towards her character
before you say B*tch is used against women, i say it's just the feminim term (ie B*st*rd for masculine) of words we use to define bad character flaws
AGAIN THIS WORD SHOULD NOT BE USED!
to make every one happy how about....
"SHE IS AN A**HOLE"
there now gender bias
[All Bold and ALL CAPS are considered shouting. Please don't shout. Thank you. Site Monitor]
*called
Samson- @ 80:
but the valid reasons you cited would not be why a repug calls any woman a bitch, whether she be hillary clinton or michelle obama.
It's always ok if you are a republican!
over it
big time
Bluesage @ 82:
so it's really "Opposite Day" with Sponge Bob, eh?
I expected Gloria Borgia to agree with a comment like this. She, like so many in the media, have a deep seated hate for the Clintons.
However, to see Donna Brazille sit on her fucking fat ass and listen to this shit is annoying as not only throwing a friend under the bus, but backing up and running over her several times.
Brazille has been an Obama supporter all along. No problem with that except she lies about it so she can keep her gig on CNN and get more spots. That makes her a money grubbing lowlife scumbag of a black whore......doesn't it
One thing most of us can agree on: Rachael Maddow and Pat Buchanan are at opposite ends of the "reasonableness" scale. I guess the scale runs in one direction for repugs and the other for progressives.
Not sure where that leaves Bluesage.
My oh my how this pisses me off.
Blitzer is a complete milquetoast, completely soggy journalism, not worth the teleprompter he reads from. Do you think the same dialogue would have been allowed if it was McCain's name instead of Clinton's and "lying hypocrite" instead of "bitch?" A newsman worth his timeslot would not have allowed that to stand and should have had just as big of a problem with THIS.
Second, obviously those two women were taken aback at Castellanos' assertion, and there they sat with shock and silence. As soon as he said it, I instinctively said in just as calm a tone "And it's OK to call some panel members misogynist assholes." This is, I suppose, why I am sitting on the couch and they are sitting in a studio, but I felt both those women did all the rest of us a huge disservice by keeping to their quiet little selves.
Just further proof that misogyny is so commonplace it's impolite to point it out.
So, this ends up to be a quandry, then. I wonder what do you call a woman who is rather negative in her behavior, especially when it is meant to belittle and denigrate the person of color?
What are the acceptable words to describe such a woman if "bitch" and "sweetie" are off the table? Let's face it. Hillary and Geraldine are negative people who have embraced a nasty course of campaigning against people of color. That part cannot be disputed.
And who's to say that Hillary doesn't use the same language herself? I'd love to be a fly on the wall in her private sessions. I could bet you due to the frustration that Mr. Obama has given her, she probably has stooped to the level of calling him six ways to Sunday all sorts of "Black this!" or "Black that".
It's getting very tiring how women of color are often shoved under the bus while white women get to define what and what doesn't offend them. Hillary is the biggest hypocrite out there.
Bluesage @ 61:
By unsavory characters, do you mean Mark Penn? Oh wait, wrong candidate.
What's that about living in glass houses? The Clintons are living in the biggest most fragile glass house of anyone if you want to talk about hanging with unsavory characters.
Andy K Jong Il @ 78:
"Hot and fruity, with a hint of vinegar"
"I trust everyone, and I trust no one." - J. Clouseau
Definitely stayin away.
My kinda roll playin. Fit's my mercurial personality.
Nice hangin witchoo...
Hittin’ the road, Jack,”and I ain’t comin’ back no more no more no more no more”…
“Last word, freak.” - Melvin Udall
out
;-}
katie @ 91:
"Soggy journalism". Hah, I like it.
+1 for the rest of your post, too.
I'll add that while maybe giving that fellow a verbal smack might have been appropriate, keeping their cool, acting like adults and addressing Castellenos as one would address a petulant, foul-mouthed child was a good alternative.
BaScOmBe against Bitter Elitist Bullshit @ 88:
Well, good luck with that!
BaScOmBe
I'm waaay past Sponge Bob days - Granddaughter was 21 yesterday so I don't get the reference. lol I also don't watch much TV so if you could explain?
When is the shark going to jump the couch?
hillary clinton ISNT a bitch?
You couldn't say the equivalent about a man because there's no word with the equivalent meaning specific to men. Most invectives are generic, except when they're directed at women. There are twice as many such words for women than men in the dictionary.
Leslie [Hussein] @ 100:
I think the male equivalent is bastard. It can be used towards women but bitch can (and often is) used derogatorily towards men. Otherwise I agree with you. I DO NOT like Hillary Clinton in any way but she doesn't quite deserve to be called bitch and certainly not on CNN.
i repeat it is not her gender, it's her character
B*tch is female for B*st*rd
like GW is a B*st*rd, no one is saying this is against him because of his gender, its about his lies, ignorance, and plain greed (character)
No one should be using it
but to settle things
say "Clinton is a B*st*rd" now is that gender bias?
LunaStick @ 101:
Yeah, whatever anyone thinks of Hillary is besides the point. She's a US Senator and a presidential candidate and deserves to be treated with respect on the public airwaves. The fact that this guy can get away with calling her a bitch...says a lot about our societal misogyny.
And, just fyi, I don't like the way Hillary has run her campaign either. But calling her a "bitch" and saying misogyny is difficult to discern!??? Right.
miss_kitty @ 13:
True. There are things you simply cannot explain. But I try sometimes by using this analogy: "Imagine if that were your mother." Sometimes that makes a person pause ever so briefly to consider it.
LunaStick @ 101:
I don't think bastard resonates quite as badly as bitch. For example: You can still be a loveable bastard. But I've never heard anyone referred to as a loveable bitch.
Lollimom @ 34:
Unfortunately the opinion of too many.
I'll acknowledge it to a degree but the architects of the system really shouldn't complain if they don't like the lay of the landscape they've created.
And some men, by the way, are name that [dickweed] and it's accurate.
cobsjo @ 102:
A politician would never call Bush a bastard on the public airwaves, despite what they may think. That's the difference.
Blue Lensman @ 90
I agree that Maddow and Buchanan are at opposite ends of the political scale but not so much anymore on the "reasonableness" scale.
By the way, I'm a very progressive, life-long Democrat so where that leaves me, hopefully, is out of your post.
Why is the only argument so many have is to call those you don't agree with repugs, trolls and racist. Shallow minds?
Leslie [Hussein] @ 103:
Our society is more desensitized to mysogyny, that's for certain. As far as respect goes, I believe that is to be deserved by ones conduct and not their position. I respect the OFFICE of the presidency but I have ZERO respect for Bush. Same goes with many senators. Inhoffe and Stevens to give examples. I respect the senate as a body, at least in how it is supposed to function, but the way some of the "bastards" in it have done things, well I can't respect that or them because in my view, they don't deserve it.
(note: I used bastard meaning to be tongue in cheek considering the topic. :) )
Leslie [Hussein] @ 103:
On this point, I do agree with you that Sen. Clinton does not deserve to be called a bitch on air. That part is fair. And it does have to do with respect. But, I feel in the guise of opinion about her character, what is appropriate to say? And why does she get blanket immunity compared to what has been said about other women in office, past and present. The example that sticks out in my mind is Cynthia McKinney. They called her a whore (Neil Boortz). The right winger on air called her crazy for her pointed questions against Donald Rumsfeld about 9/11. And where were the feminists then about the sexism and the racism? Where were they?
Why has it all of a sudden become important now that Hillary Clinton is running?
That's all I would like to know. I wonder if people see the dichotomy about how these issues are brought forth because its Hillary Clinton compared to someone like Maxine Waters, Shelia Jackson Lee, Cynthia McKinney or other ladies in Congress who have been mistreated by the press and in the government.
Why must Hillary be the standard bearer since her behavior and actions during this campaign has been questionable? Why is she more deserving of this soft-ball treatment opposed to other ladies who have served their country and the government with more respect and distinction?
Just asking.
Leslie [Hussein] @ 105:
Good point!
The Very Appeasing and Bitter Ceci Hussein @ 111:
I'm not sure what you're talking about? Because there's been an outcry in all these instances you mention.
Could they start referring to men as fart-knockers, ass-wipe, butt-munch, dillweed, and helmet polishers?
Can anyone at CNN hold a camera steady? That was just annoying.
Bluesage @ 109:
Bluesage, it seems to me (on the topic of media bias) that we are fine with the pundits as long as we agree with them but how quick we turn if they say something we agree with. How many times has Olbermann and Maddow been cheered here for the things they have said in the past regarding republicans? They have their opinions as do we all but just because you might disagree with them does not make them unreasonable.
Meant to say how quick we turn if they say something we disagree with @116
Leslie [Hussein] @ 108:
I said it should not be used
Again my point is it's is not sexism
It is disrespect and derogatory towards her character
derogatory character references as B*tch and B*st*rd, should not be used but do not confuse it with sexism
Media just need to show more respect! Like how no one is calling GW a B*st*rd in public
LunaStick @ 116:
I've never heard Olbermann or Maddow use invectives against anyone? Olbermann doesn't use name-calling in his editorials...not that I'm aware.
Leslie [Hussein] @ 119:
Not saying either of them have. I was responding to an upthread comment about those two being "unreasonable" because they appear to be more pro Obama. Maddow however has lately been more of a defender of Clinton but bias is in the eye of the beholder so whatever
Leslie [Hussein] @ 113:
I apologize. I will try to be more clear. Although I agree that Hillary does not deserve to be called a "bitch" on air for no reason whatsoever, I wonder why people have to treat her as if she is fragile. Mrs. Clinton can handle herself. She clearly has run her campaign to provide herself a stage--especially when she has used it to attack and denigrate others. Knowing how nasty her behavior has been to Mr. Obama, why is Hillary deserving of people's compassion?
And despite her behavior, which is in my personal view, borderline racist, I wonder if people are ignoring her actions only to place her in such a role while forgetting the other issues in the room. In other talks, I have heard folks say that sexism is easier to discuss than racism. I wonder if (her) racism is getting thrown under the rug because of the sexism.
That's what I've been trying to say. :)
True. But not to the level that surrounds Hillary Clinton. And I think there is a reason for that.
cobsjo @ 102:
You're wrong on so many levels here.
Start with the dictionary, and then go from there.
Oops. Forgot to also ask:
So what do we say about Hillary Clinton? Do we make an honest assessment of her behavior? Or do we sweep it under the rug?
And, if she is not deserving of one's respect, what then?
(Always the questioner, ;) )
The Very Appeasing and Bitter Ceci Hussein Says
What in the WORLD are you referring to, regarding Hillary and "her nasty behavior"?
I demand you qualify that statement.
Real issue, bogus claim. Manufactured distraction = disinformation.
Google's motto: "don't be evil" or medicine's "primum non nocere" (first, do no harm.)
Part of evolution isn't about being fit, it's about being loved. (you sow, then reap)
It works in foreign policy too. (Obama-Webb '08)
111 The Very Appeasing and Bitter Ceci Hussein Sa
That's interesting reasoning; considering people like you don't even see the blantant misogyny when it's plastered 24/7, involving a Presidential candidate let alone a second-tier *local* politician in Georgia.
Empty vessel.
destardi @ 124:
Her "kitchen sink strategy" perhaps?
121 The Very Appeasing and Bitter Ceci Hussein Says:
I'm still waiting on that "nasty behavior" qualification.
I swear to God above that one of half of the Democratic party is dancing on the backs of the long-held backbone of the Democratic party, "low income" "blue collar" workers, as spoken with barely concealed disdain, and trending for the popular, "sexy", "guy I could have a latte with", allowing the only successful 2 term Democratic President in modern times to be disparaged.
One half of the party complained about the media for 7.5 years of bush's reign, and the other half is now sucking up everything the media is selling them.
One half was right about Bush, and that same half is right about the packaged, weak Obama.
LunaStick @ 127:
Name this "kitchen sink strategy."
Buzz words don't work around here..this is not Bush country.
Liberal AND Proud @ 122:
Why just sexism on woman, why not start calling sexism against men
B*tch is used for woman- female term
another well...
A**hole- masculine term
Men do not run saying sexism on A**hole!
normal used on guys and their bad behavior
If not not mistaken, i hear woman calling other woman B*tch
not because gender but behavior!!!!!!!
NO one should us B*tch ever! Hillary deserves more respect but i do not think sexism is always to blame
Luna Stick @ 116
What they have "said in the past" is the operative words here. There was a time that I wouldn't miss Olberman because I thought he was fair-minded. That changed when he did his
"special comment" on Hillary Clinton and was just brutal. I've not been a strong supporter of Hillary and she nor Obama was my choice but he did take it to the extreme as has Maddow and Robinson. They have become unreasonable in their reporting. It's not that they call her names but that they are openly and unfairly biased. Keith is now so full of himself he's perfectly comfortable actually mocking her. He seems to have become what he says he despises, O'Really.
Blitzer is just an incurable idiot. He never pays attention to what anyone is saying lest he lose his grip on the script. I was very disappointed in both Borger and Brazille but not surprised at their reaction to Castellanos comments. It will be interesting to see if Castellanos is still part of the "best team in politics"! I would guess, yes.
destardi @ 128:
Oh good GOD! How often at this site have people praised those few journalists and pundits that stood up to Bush and his regime? Now HALF of those are turning on them because they don't like that they aren't bowing to the pre-ordained queen and realize that Clinton is the same parsing, flip-flopping personality that her husband was. Yes, Bill was a good president but he damn sure had his faults as well. Some of us want something better. Deal with it already. Your pre-ordained queen has lost. Your decision now is to jump ship and go republican (not voting is the same as going republican) or to back the candidate who represents you supposed Democratic ideals.
Does that mean that some Hispanics (Castellanos) are accurately named spics, wetbacks and coconuts?
[Deleted. Misogyny-Sitemonitor]
destardi @ 124:
Okay:
Number One:
Number Two:
Number Three:
And that's for starters. I hope that answers your question.
Of course, the vital detail Castellanos omitted was that he wouldn't have the BALLS to call Hillary a bitch to her face. That's because Alex Castellanos, besides being a male chauvinist pig, is also a coward. Too bad none of the CNN sluts bothered to bring that up.
Bluesage @ 131:
What I was trying to point out is that bias is a matter of perception. Olbermann was brutal towards Clinton in your view, some of us saw him pulling his punches on her with that special comment and directing most of his anger towards those who work for her campaign. He was right to do so. Her "handlers" and advisors lost her this campaign. She showed poor judgement in sticking with them as long as she did (and still does in some cases). Right now....Let's look at right now, her continuing campaign has been nothing but a distraction that has prevented Democrats from going after the REAL menace John McCain and his Senate and House compatriots. Those few media people who do come out in support of Democratic principles are aware of this and that is why perhaps they are showing support of Obama. They recognize the fact that he will be the nominee and are behaving accordingly.
I agree that you shouldn't go on TV saying it's OK to call some women bitches - [Deleted. Misogyny-Sitemonitor]. Funny how that works.
The Very Appeasing and Bitter Ceci Hussein @ 135:
So you have 3 blank reasons?
Just as I suspected.
liberalHUSSEINmoderation @ 14:
Exactly!
I've been very ..I can't find the word, I start to say "shocked" but it doesn't hit it... sad? no, disgusted... yes but not the full feeling, appalled/ of course, horrifyed? outraged? sickened?
I just can't find it. All of the above?
I find myself just bewildered by women's support, not just unawareness, but actuall support of this ugliness and violance toward Clinton... they say its because its HER... as if that makes it alright, acceptable.
I don't believe it anyway. This is cultural, this shows the depth of contempt women are held in. In some ways this is worse than what we were fighting against in the past. Of course you can't compare the two. Though today women have far more choices, more opportunity, yet the glass ceiling, while brought closer has not been shattered.I think Hilary has maybe started to crack it even if she/we don't get to finally break through it.
What I mean about it being worse in some ways is how violent the hatred is and how free people feel in expressing it. "I wish Hillary had married OJ." The Curious George Tee Shirt guy had this quote on his marquee outside the bar where the interviews were taking place. It was not mentioned, all camera angles avoided it. How violent, misogynist is that? How sexist is it that the media didn't even mention it? I know emails were sent asking why yet still not mentioned.
This marquee would have been completely unacceptable(and the tee shirts etc.) 20 years ago certainly 30 years ago. What is happening to our culture?
And these mostly young women do not see sexism and the hatred of women in this.
[Deleted. Off topic-Sitemonitor]
Here is the answer to the question asked of me about Hillary's nastiness. I am sorry. I had gotten the links wrong:
Hillary sides with McCain
Hillary Mocks Obama's Oratory style
Now there's more that that, but these two examples demonstrate her nastiness and callousness toward Mr. Obama.
[Deleted. Off topic-Sitemonitor]
Refer to my following statement in #142 before you get so smug. Thank you.
"GOP Operative Alex Castellanos: It’s OK to call some women bitches"
Your mama?
accountability @ 140:
I'm a white working class woman in her mid forties. I do see some of the sexism but a lot of it is percieved when it really isn't there. Hillary Clinton has character issues (flaws) and it is perfectly reasonable to point out those flaws. What some (like you) seem to be suggesting is that we should treat Hillary with kid gloves because she is a woman. That's sexism in another form. A form also known as patronizing.
[Deleted. Off topic-Sitemonitor]
[Deleted. Off topic-Sitemonitor]
My mother can be a real bitch sometimes, just saying. This campaign definitely highlights misogyny and racism in about the same amounts but the guy on CNN thinks Hillary is a bitch. So what! He's a boob, and both of the others are real, terrible things.
LunaStick @ 145:
Exactly what I have been trying to point out. Except, as a black woman, I feel that Hillary Clinton has been put up on this pedistal in order to hide some of her own bad behavior, especially against people of color. That is what I've been trying to point out.
Sometimes, sexism and racism collides--especially when dealing with a person who is questionable in terms of respect due to her actions.
Shirley Chisholm said after dropping her run for the presidency that she faced more opposition for being a woman than for being black.
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