Cenk Uygur Defends Wes Clark's Statement On CNN
By Nicole Belle Wednesday Jul 02, 2008 11:00am
Our buddy, Cenk Ugyur of The Young Turks appeared on CNN's Headline News yesterday to defend Wes Clark's statement about John McCain's experience with the brave Ben Ferguson, who never saw a conflict he was afraid to send other people's sons to. The purposeful and obtuse willingness on the part of CNN/HLN's Mike Galanos to further the narrative started by his colleague Rick Sanchez that Clark was "swiftboating" McCain by questioning his experience, his patriotism and his sacrifice as a veteran and POW is stunning. There's not even an attempt to see it from the other side. Note even the chyron headline is that Clark is questioning McCain's "service," a shorthand that spins it in a far more malevolent way.
Cenk does what I think all of us have to do when confronted with this kind of illogical and intractable meme, especially when you're outmanned by both the pearl-clutching media host and the indignant conservative "balance": he laughs at it.
FERGUSON: You have a man that was shot down, stayed in captivity as a POW for five years and your guy-if you want to talk about experience-had 147 days in the Senate before he decided he wanted to be President of the United States of America. So it's pretty dumb for Wesley Clark to go out there and yes, it ticked off everyone in the military because this man-I mean, I'm sorry, being shot down, to say that doesn't qualify you to be President-this man has been around war, been in actual war zones while Wesley Clark was sitting in an air-conditioned room, telling people what to do with NATO, so I don't know if he's exactly the right guy to go out there.
It ticked off everyone in the military? Really? Care to back that up, big man? And what's with the disrespect of Clark's service? A retired general who spent his career in command doesn't merit the respect you demand for a pilot? Was he in an air-conditioned room during Vietnam? Bosnia? Not so much. Maybe little radio talk show hosts sitting in the comfort of their air-conditioned studios might want to think twice before castigating any military man for his service.
UPDATE: Cenk reminds me that there was a second part to the segment after the commercial break and you can see both parts here. Cenk got in some good digs too.
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Judging by the surrogates acting like their panties got twisted in a wad, Clark has drawn some blood on this one....should keep it up. If the best that they have is discrediting Clark's experience they lose. If the best that they have is the pity factor for being a POW they lose. If the best that they have is being shot down or crashing a jet is a qualification for POTUS they lose. How much does Clark and Obama have to praise him for his service for Christ sakes.
I say keep hammering the leadership issue home. And as long as McCranky acts like a hurt child about it, it basically shows that he can't deal with it...and should give us pause about what else he can't deal with....
keep it up!!!!!
I am so fucking tired of this never-ending bullshit.
Michelle Obama caught hell for saying this was the first time she was proud of her country. That's one more than me.
Call me crazy, but it seems to me Clark's point was that getting shot down isn't a prerequisite to being president. Isn't that true? Or did I miss that part of history where all our presidents thus far been shot down and held as POWs before running for office?
Talk about a manufactured controversy.
Mike Galanos read the sports well when CNN covered sports. I watched him a few times on Headline News. He should stick to reading the news. His grasp of what he read was at a grade two level.
Clark should keep on brining this up. He has TONS more credibility than McBush.
...AND he didn't crash 3 planes, make propaganda films for the enemy, and divorce his wife once she had a horrible accident.
People need to keep asking McBush this, if only to make him finally blow his top.
McCain was a shitty pilot who surrendered and cooperated with the Vietnamese. Only dumb-ass republicans would think this qualifies you to be president.
Ahem ... *bringing* this up
mcC*nt is an empty-headed asshole!
I love the outrage on the right when they talk about McCain being tortured but when Bush and friends do it, it's no big deal.
cenk nailed him with the last one: "you don't know what you're talking about! Clark was shot four times!!"
I wonder if Ben Ferguson's mama still eats food out of the bowl she used to give him that haircut?
McCain says he is proud of his record of service. Why, then, won't he release his record for us to see? Something there he is hiding. I am sick of idiots like Ferguson (why isn't he serving in Iraq?) saying Obama has no reason to criticize McCain as Obama has not been in public service nearly as long as McCain. This qualifies McCain??? Why don't these hacks look at McCain's past history. Many crashed planes, fellow Navy members killed because of McCain's recklessness, and now he wants us to believe he is a hero! Sorry, McShame, you are no hero. Only in your old, demented mind. And in the minds of the sorry repug hacks you have convinced of your heroism. Don't Ferguson, et al ever read anything. Of course not if it is critical of McShame. They are too busy worshiping and kissing a**. Ferguson, go crawl back under your rock. Or know of what you speak. Maybe if Bush wants a surge in Afghanistan Fergie can enlist and become a hero just like his hero McShame.
Wesley Clark was wounded three times in Viet Nam earlier in his career. If we honor McCain's sacrifice, we should honor Clark's sacrifice too. But these guys should not get away with characterizing Clark's service as in an air-conditioned room. He was on the ground in Viet Nam when McCain was flying over it in an air-conditioned cockpit.
I once stubbed my toe really fucking bad, does that qualify me to be secretary of transportation?
So why don't the Democrats find a few former POWs who would be willing to say that being a POW hasn't qualified THEM for President?
Note how the lead-in clip of Clark edited out Bob Schieffer's question. Schieffer was the one who was essentially arguing that flying a plane into AA fire qualified McCain to be President.
By the way, the BBC website had an interview last week with McCain's prison commander. He said McCain was never tortured. WHOA! You can bet that the Republicans would have used that against a Democrat if the roles were reversed. They'd be punching you in the face with it. Over and over.
It's great to see Ugyur handling it well, but God, sometimes you Democrats fight like sissies. Drives me crazy. Hit 'em hard!
McCain's media, hard at work as usual. Headline news is no better than Fox when it comes to talking head shows.
Why isn't that little twit in the military?
That' what Randi Rhodes asked him and I still want the answer.
Did anyone notice how that weaselly faced ass disparaged Wesley Clark's service. He said he sat in a trailer during his wartime experience, bullshit Clark was a line officer during Vietnam and came home with 4 bullet wounds a was in rehab for a long time. No one not Cenk Unger not the idiot CNN Anchor called him on it. If the right is going to push McSames Military record down are throat (he is getting to be like Rudy G btw) the left needs to start knee capping these idiots. If I was Cenk and Ferguson started to run his mouth I would have asked do you support the war....Do you support the troops....Have you ever served in the military if no shut the F%$ck up and stop running your pie hole. The Dems need to start kicking ass and taking names and stop pussyfooting with GOP because it is going to very soon that the attack adds are going to label Obama a drug dealing purse snatching welfare living SOB, when they want to call him the N word and the way these bastards are I won't doubt that they will.
These shameless media morons ought to be frog-marched before breakfast, made to watch John Stewart's appearance on CrossFire, and bitch slapped.
If you read the Wikipedia page cited above, Clark was wounded in 1970 in Vietnam by four AK-47 rounds while commanding troops. An air-conditioned room is not mentioned in the article. Does Mr. Ferguson have a similar experience to relate? Wes Clark can spot you two wounds and still beat you any time.
GG @ 10:
Very good point!
McCain said yesterday that Senator Obama should "cut him loose", meaning General Clark. What the hell would he cut General Clark loose from? Clark was a strong Hillary supporter.
I think General Clark made an important point that needed to be made. Being shot down in a plane does not automatically show that one has the judgment nor the experience to be president of the US.
He must have hit a nerve because I have seldom seen so much made of so little. And jesus, Andrea Mitchell about had a coronary about this. She's supposed to be a journalist, not a op-ed writer. Her job is to report the news, not criticize it.
Hey! the Columbian government just free 3 Americans held for 3-4 yrs. I smell more qualified presidental candidates
well, you guys haven't looked at the *ahem* US constitution have you?
it says right here:
US Constitution, Article II, Section 1
No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty-five years, and been fourteen years a resident within the United States. Further, no person other than former POWs who were shot down and held hostage for years shall be eligible for the office of the president.
/snark off
but seriously, this is another one of those bullshit issues. a way for the msm to create unneeded controversy. and a way for the mccain camp to feign anger.
complete and utter bullshit. figures that a piss poor entertainment station like cnn would continue to wallow in the shit. fits them perfectly.
Hey if getting shot down makes you presidential material, I got shot in the ass and spent 10 days in a Russian Jail during the cold war. What does that make me qualified for...Congressman, Senator what.
What's a 'meme', anyway? Don't tell me, I don't want to know.
It's a silly media-word you never hear in real life.
So why use it?
I think Andrea had been getting some of that McCain on the side (shudders). She seemed to take it a little TOO personally.
Greg Johnston @ 25:
UN Ambassador or an ambassador post to your choice country (I hear Brazil is really nice).
Back in the 90s, I was a long haul trucker. One day, I was involved in a minor accident. Noone involved was seriously hurt, but I did bump my head on my CB radio. After a precautionary exam in the ER, I was immediately hired on as the hospitals Chief Neurosurgeon. Of course.
clark repeatedly praised mccain for his past military service/pow status......mccain didn't have an executive position or make executive decisions......that's all he
said unless i missed something. clark i believe a rhodes scholar/oxford grad four star general can make that comment...the guy is a stud. when the argument comes
up that but but but obama doesn't have any service or
executive experience.....your correct so they're both equal in that respect. this is mccain's perceived strongest point to the public.......certain demographics if asked about mccain.. they would describe him as a pow/maybe a pilot........if asked anything beyond that you might get crickets.....mccains' campaign knows this. they thought no one could touch this subject.
i think clark believes what he said and maybe decided to bring it up after c. Blacks comment(s) about a terrorist attack helping mccain.....clark was saying people this is not a free pass to presidency. the(R) is trying really hard to blow this up...i listened to that laura ingram yesterday on this topic i almost puked she completely distorted the comments. the (R) wishes barack had said it.
mccain was questioned by a reporter about his service and it's relationship to presidency yesterday....he couldn't or wouldn't answer. we better be ready because this going to be nasty.....
Let's all gasp and pretend that what Clark said was shocking and offensive rather than obvious.
I don't know where Ben Ferguson has been but the military folks I associate with and because I am a veteran myself agree with Gen. Clark's statements about McCain's service record. Simply serving in the military in any capacity for one thing does not automatically qualify a person to be President of the United States and I don't care what kind of record you have. Sure, its helpful but its not the only thing that matters unless you want someone like a Napoleon or Julius Ceasar at the helm. Besides, what difference does McCain's military record make when you compare it to the entire Bush Administration today. That whole Administration has dodged military service their entire lives but Ferguson doesn't see a problem with that apparently and that is probably because he is just like them.
If we're going to talk about who's qualified to be prez, I'll take the guy who was able to fly his Vietnam jet and NOT get his ass shot down. At least he got the job done.
Andrea and Mika were having vapors over this, Monday morning. It was strange the outrage they showed. As a result of their excitement, General Clark got lots of air time to drive his point home. The sob sisters may have shot themselves in the foot on this one.
My wife would send these kids to their rooms.
Many Vietnam Vets dont support McCain. Maybe they'll start talking in Sept.
I almost sense that the media harping on this is slowly blowing up in their faces like some time delay trick cigar. McSame has a lost look in the segment and the wires today are rife with reports that the McLame staff shake up turned on inept 'message' manufacture. .
Now the poor hapless 'message' gets further buried as the abject looking coot appears about to sob over the imposition of this common sense assertion. The shillers shoulda probably jettisoned this stinker, like, last Monday, but they keep scratching it till it bleeds all over them.
And the dim bowl haircut is priceless. Note to CNN shills: When you trot out a con servitor to serve up cheap squeaks against one such as Cenk, could you at least find one who doesn't resemble some long lost urchin love child offspring of the Three Stooges Moe Howard. Yikes what a pitiful mismatch.
Let me get this straight once and for all:
Kerry's service in Vietnam = bad, no BFD.
McCrazy's "heroism" = great!
Alrighty, then.
If getting shot down entitles you to be commander in chief and the opposite, not being shot down , like Obama, disqualifies you to be commander in chief, then Bush is not entitled to be commander in chief neither.
You can't make a nuanced argument with someone unintelligent or intellectually dishonest.
I totally agree that nobody who has not been a P.O.W. should be allowed to become President. P.O.W. is definitely a prerequisite. So what the hell is Obama doing running for president - it's not his territory !! The FOOL !!
The thing is McCain is too old and too conservative. I prefer a younger, less conservative former P.O.W. become president.
How about a homeless vet ?
Obama What a Fool !!
(sarcasm)
I may not be current military but as a veteran I'd sure as hell follow Clark into battle but would keep a great distance away from any combat mccain was leading! And you couldn't pay me enough to listen to Ben Ferguson's radio program!
I got shot several times while in the Air Force
Of course it was bourbon.
Everyone McCain's age, or Obama's age for that matter, has experience of one kind or another. The question is, will this experience help them face the challenges of the job they are seeking? I can see that McCain and Obama's experiences both have worth for the presidency, they are just different. However, experience without critical thinking and self-awareness is not useful and can in fact be harmful. Who has the best decision-making skills? I think it is clear that it is Obama.
What? Clark took four bullets in an airconditioned room? Funny. I thought it was in actual combat.
Ferguson is a f*cking moron and needs to shut his ignorant pie hole.
Kudos to Cenk! "I think you guys are crazy!"
Amen brother.
"What’s a ‘meme’, anyway? Don’t tell me, I don’t want to know.
It’s a silly media-word you never hear in real life.
So why use it?"
Actually, it is a word often used in the context of information transfer and cultural evolution, among other fields. The reason people use it is that it refers to something specific that would be cumbersome to define everytime it was needed.
I never have, nor will I ever question Sen. McCain's wartime service to this country. Unlike millions of repigs who DID question Sen. Kerry's outstanding wartime service to this country. We, unlike them, do not want to swiftboat Sen. McCain. What Gen. Clark said was nothing close, can't be compared to what was said about Sen. Kerry in 2004.
Two questions: How many presidents of the US were POWs? By my count, that would be 0. And who the fuck is Ben Furgusen to talk about experience? The only experience he has is popping pimples and sitting on hist pasty white ass.
We need to hit these people, hard and often. Do not get caught up in their spin games. Start new attacks right now and make them about personality, fitness to serve and flip-flopping. Stay on message and don't let anyone back you up. That was the mistake Kerry made, he wasn't vicious enough and didn't stay on message.
The people need to know the truth about McCrazy's military service. We're entitled to the facts. Bush had it all when he blackmailed McCrazy into irrelevancy during the primaries of 2000. We know for fact that McCrazy graduated in the lowest 1% of his class at Annapolis. We know that he had several infractions then against the military code of conduct for cadets which his pappy, The Admiral of the Navy, had "fixed". We also know about his lack of personal judgment in the tragedy aboard his boat, the SS Forestal. More people need to know how many men died due to his obstinacy and insistence on mounting the wrong size missile for the gun tub. So, let's get into the real "meat" of McCrazy's military career.
And when we've finished we can shortcut to his exit interview with the military shrink who forbid him to ever fly again (after wrecking 4 planes) whose advice he promptly defied and, as predicted, crashed plane #5.
This suggests a very arrogant, egomaniacal thread which courses through this man. He's also very sick with Stage 3 Invasive Melanoma from which there is no recovery. It's just a simple of matter of time for him with this disease.
And then there's the very suspicious nature of his relationship with lobbyist, Vicky Iseman whose very mysterious disappearance from the political landscape brings much darkness and suspicion to McCain's campaign.
Is he a womanizer who had his present wife as his mistress while still married to the first wife? Did he continue his whoremongering activities until quite recently with Iseman? Inquiring minds need to know these material facts which stack up to present a true picture of the man himself.
So let's get to the real facts on Grandpappy McNutbag - and soon.
"Wesley Clark was sitting around in an air conditioned room while John McCain was getting shot down"
---Ben Furgeson
This is what Capt. Wes Clark was doing while John McCain was getting shot out of the sky:
This is his Bio from the NATO website:
Supreme Allied Commander Europe
General Wesley K. Clark, US Army
http://www.nato.int/cv/saceur/clark.htm
Now who in that video really knows what they are talking about?
Want to know what the Vets think?
More over here and at votevets.org
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/6/30/223436/275
As I see it, the controversy over McCain's "real military service" is ongoing and the facts need to be uncovered before this country can back his rather suspicious military circumstances. Just because he served doesn't make him an overnight hero. Clark was absolutely correcto-mundo in his assertion that whatever happened to him certainly does not bear on his qualifications to be commander in chief. If a real military career was part of the prerequisites for running for this office, let's see......where would that place Shrub in Chief right now? Or Clinton for that matter??
The media is shilling for McCain on this one. No matter how much sense Clark made, he can't win this one. The media will not allow a logical argument here and they get to frame it. The sooner it goes away the better. Go after McCain for his policies, his temper, his flip flops, his geriatric confusion, his lack of religious committment, his elitism, his lobbying surrogates and corporate favors and oh yeah, his gambling.
Gen. Clark was sitting in an air-conditioned office ???!!! That lazy piece of shit !
Rasputin @ 49:
Thanks for this website. This is what real military heroes think about Clark and McPappy. This nonsensical attack on Clark is backfiring in the faces of the McCain camp totally. Now why did Obama have to jump into McCain's camp and disavow Clark's comments. We need answers about why Obama did this - and did so as hastily as he did. Huge mistake for Obama once again - coupled with his FISA stance - and he's losing ground fast.
A stupid man's report of what a clever man says can never be accurate, because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand.
-Bertrand Russell
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.
-Bertrand Russell
And along the same tact of "whether he learned anything from his experience" just go to the words of McPappy's shrink who told him that he should not fly again under any circumstances. What did he do? He promptly went out, rented a small plane, and crashed it.
This is a man who believes he's qualified to be president?
seth @ 54:
Thanks for this.....the conundrum itself. It's like the proverbial tail-chasing dog - being "doubtful" is a factor of an intelligent mind - the mind that is open to challenges and new information. Unlike the mind of the Shrub totally - and his stoolie - McPappy.
The evil/corporate media/mafia is so afraid that they gravy train is over cause Obama is going to win that they have gone into over drive of yet more bullshit / lies/ deceptions/ propaganda / and self created 'narratives' that they should collective wear DEPENDS now ... maybe even set up a DEPENDS HOT LINE in case that isn't enough to hold their collective freak out shit ..........
BaScOmBe hearts Lara Logan Says:
keep it up!!!!!
STAY THE COURSE!
Average American racist dumbass: "What do I care about what Cenk Ugyur said? He's a n****r!!"
Wes Clark has it absolutly right and he should not apologize.
Go Wes Clark, you said what many think!
Clark was certainly correct in noting that being held captive as a POW should not automatically qualify someone for being president. But I suggest that Nicole Belle may wish to be a little more careful in citing Clark's military service in Bosnia. Clark was in charge of targeting civilian infrastructure in Yugoslavia, gave the go ahead to bomb Radio Television Serbia and sanctioned the use of deadly cluster bombs and depleted uranium during that conflict. When will liberals learn that Democrats, and especially es-military Democrats, can be just as militaristic as their Republican counterparts.
if you need to induce vomitting watch/listen to that laura
ingram talk about clark's comments......she is weird
constantly interrupting the opposing guest never lets the veteran rep. establish his opinion/statement...........
i guess there are people that want to hear what they want to hear......and nothing else.........she doesn't shxt about clark or the military....she just sits in a air conditioned
studio
""Now why did Obama have to jump into McCain’s camp and disavow Clark’s comments.""
-------------
I didn't think he had ...
Did Obama mention Clark? If he did I missed it.
I thought that it was the MSM that actually put these two seperate events together no?
Was there even ever any "Throwing under the bus" of Clark by Obama like the "right" claims?
Did that even happen?
Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought this entire episode was a complete fabrication in an attempt to eliminate Clark.
Anyone wanna guess what our current republican president was doing while McCain got shot down? I hear he flew jets against the Viet Cong in Alabama when he showed up.
Did I miss the memo? When did it become necessary to have experience in order to lead our country? I'm getting pretty sick of idolizing the military at the expense of anything else someone does.
I love Cenk Uygur. He doesn't tolerate fools, nor does he pretend to see the emperor's clothes.
The MSM doesn't like Obama because he has spoken out about media consolidation and the fact that the vast majority of our media is controlled by five men. He called for these media conglomerates to be broken up... so if you think that the MSM is going to portray Obama or any of his spokespersons accurately you better think again.
They routinely give McCrazy a free pass and do their best to distort the message that comes from anyone in the Obama camp.
Controversy sells and if they can't find a controversy... they will make one up!
Hey, if being in the military automatically qualifies you to be president, then shouldn't we have President John Kerry right now? These f'ing repigs want it both ways. They disparaged Kerry's service, but now god forbid you say ANYTHING about Mccain. AND he DIDN'T EVEN SAY ANYTHING ABOUT HIS SERVICE! Just that being shot down doesn't automatically qualify you to BE president. Are they that stupid that they don't understand that? Oh, wait, they are.
Erroll @ 61:
Erroll, I don't think we're in disagreement about the particulars of Clark's service. However, this was to rebut Ferguson's factually-challenged statement that Clark was luxuriating in an air-conditioned office while big, bad John McCain was being shot down.
ysbaddaden Says:
I got shot several times while in the Air Force
Of course it was bourbon.
I got shot down twice just last night, in a bar!
How quickly these idiots forget what Charlie Black said: Another terrorist attack on U.S. soil. “Certainly it would be a big advantage to him,” says Black.
Wesley Clark was a decorated Vietnam war veteran who was wounded in combat, and didn't simply sit in air conditioned offices. What's more, he was at the top of his class. McCain, as I understand it, was at the bottom of his. We have seen what happens when we make the dumbest person in the class the president. Do we have to experience that again?
Although they would've done it anyway
The repigs are framing this story
So that they can use the swiftboaters for lies again
And claim Obama supporters started this "character assasination."
Dont stop now Wes , keep hammering them , about Mcbullshit show those mil. records I want to read about your time on the USS Forrestal , please .
gawd @ 65:
General Clark made exactly that point and said, "there are many ways to show courage and patriotism beyond military service and that is the point I was trying to make. There is also good judgment and that is why I support Obama, he has shown courage, patriotism, and the good judgment to have stood up against fighting an unnecessary war."
Of course the MSM always edit this part of his interviews out and the part where Schieffer said "Obama was never flying a jet and got shot down", which is why Clark responded, "when did flying a jet and getting shot down become a requirement to become President" which is the sound bite they used to try and start this faux controversy in the first place.
There is a "displaced" piece of shit at post 59.
sixhundredsixtysix @ 63:
you could be correct but i don't think you are........i believe the people involved in obama's campaign have been wanting to challenge mccain's service as far as executive experience. they know that this is mccain's #1 perceived strength to the public so who better than clark to attack/challenge it. obama knew how it would play out that is why his comments were obliquely directed toward clark vs.directly........i think it was a strategy.
you notice it follows lobbyist charlie black's terrorist attack comments.....this shows the correlation of fear/being attacked and draw to mccain by the public......they want to challenge that correlation
mccain's past military/pow experience didn't include executive experience/decision making....neither does barack so they are even....level playing field....they're trying to enlighten people about their perception.clark was clear in his message...the risk he took was the spin by idiots....i was disapointed in andrea yesterday being dramatic. it may have to rid clark but i don't think so..i respect mccain's service but it can't be used as a shield.i think obama believes this also he didn't throw clark under the bus..the (R)wished obama made the comments about mccain he isn't that foolish
Reslugs just can't or refuse to handle the truth about McSame.
I long for the day when we can consider diplomats and peacemakers heroes rather than compliant citizens who put on a uniform to go kill people that their government says are bad people.
Who is that host?
I haven't watched Headline News since they put Glen Beck on. Now I know they are a FNC wannabe.
This host couldn't have been more biased in his framing of the topic. I mean, Cenk summed up the whole issue in his first statement. There is nothing to see here folks. Move along.
Who put the bowl on this Reslug and cut his hair or is this the new GAY style??
The Rethugs defended Duke Cunningham's service right up until he was convicted. Why isn't HE their presidential nominee? You say he's a crook? You say he took bribes? Now you're insulting a war hero!
The record shows that John McCain took bribes from Charles Keating, but Congress refused to punish him for it. Since that time McCain has involved himself in completely bogus "campaign reform" legislation.
Does our government seem more honest today than it was right after the Keating Five scandal?
But...but...McCain spent five years in the Hanoi Hilton!
70 Saint Augustine Says: ysbaddaden Says:
I got shot several times while in the Air Force
Of course it was bourbon.
I got shot down twice just last night, in a bar!
________________________________________________
I thought it was because you used an ill-turned line
In a
Single's bar.
I want to have Cenk's baby.
Reichwingnut pundits just make stuff up...like the guy with the little boy haircut.
RuskinRules @ 79:
Sure wish you could edit your own posts.
I couldn't even watch the whole clip. THIS is what passes for news/analysis? This is a purely GOP partisan attempted ambush. I'm glad we kicked out the TV years ago! And the fact that big tough Mr War Hero Conservative elects to get his dainty little knickers in a twist over this non-incident speaks volumes about what kind of president he would be.
I think they do protest too much. This is the era of Utube and bloggers.
I think they fear the impact the MCcain tapes disparging America,as a POW under the gun. I am sure they will be circulated by someone.
I love the idea of a young military age war booster like Ben dissing someone like General Clark with nonsense about "sitting around in air conditioned offices".Go fight in Iraq you little puke.
It's amazing that the MSM will act incredulous at Clark's statements supposedly attacking (I disagree) one soldier (McCain) yet in the same breath they do not hestitate to attack another soldier (Clark). Typical hypocrites. They want it both ways. I expect this of the GOP knuckleheads but expect better from the media.
This IS the same McBush that virtually NO RETHUGS supported during the primary season, isn't it?
One things for sure, Mccain has the media in his back pocket. Seems as though most of the so called news programs stick up for him. Get in their face Wesley!
.
I didn't know that being a POW is a necessary qualification to be president of the USA.
I suppose signing coerced confessions is heroic, somehow a qualification.
Oh, lets not forget the qualification Johnny has on TORTURE!
.
As for the little weasely neocon Ben. For somebody who has no intention of fighting for his country and to mock someone who did, he need's to STFU!
McC*nt's not qualified, but he DID stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
ysbaddaden Says: Although they would’ve done it anyway
The repigs are framing this story
So that they can use the swiftboaters for lies again
And claim Obama supporters started this “character assasination.”
Your analysis is on the money, my friend.
Its all they got, distortions, distractions, deceit & lies.
McCain is a sacrificial lamb & a bad candidate.
Too many skeleton's, too many flip-flops,
Much too many senior moments, too many gaffes,
Too many tumors,
Too many rumors,
that turn out to be...
True.
The repig party is done.
Stick a fuckin fork in 'em.
Bad editing. They edited out the part where Sheifer said that "obama never flew in a fighter plane or was shot down". It was after this comment that Clark stated that flying in a fighter plane and being shot down doesn't qualify you to be president. Interesting how they always edit that part out isn't it?
If it were only possible to air drop these chickenshit warhawks into a battle zone with their Mattel machine guns. If that were possible I guess there wouldn't be many Republicans walking the streets. At last a way to clean up the streets.
The very people attacking Clark are the same asshats that
attacked John Kerry and doubted his service and even went
so far as to question his war wounds and medals. Fucking
Swift Boaters need to be blown out of the water and never
given air time again, this shit is down right childish...and these
are the people we are supposed to respect for their service in
uniform to our country. When these people start acting like
infantile chimps flinging shit around at each other that is what
turns the American people off.
PIGS!
The GoP; certainly had no trouble at all trashing Kerry's record; hey if you can't stand the heat; get out of the kitchen
With the moderator's permission:
Enjoy watching that dweeb Ben Ferguson get hosed...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcYwRvpXfCs
Oh Fergeson spent his "wartime service" in an air conditioned room....
Am I the only one who thinks criticism should be levelled like a lazer at McCain's military judgment in his Iraq strategy? Whatever his past, he's clearly not learned any strategy. Comments on a web commercial I'm developing are welcome: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4994741889717287417&q=strobinson...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRwsk56lN44
Anyone else catch the hyperventorama??
Gods I thought it was bad listening to "right" wing radio but WOW!!
I had no idea how far the MSM actually went swift boating Gen Clark while at the same time stating how disgraceful it is to question a former soldier...
Un-fucking-believable hypocrisy!!
Meme is in the dictionary, but chyron isn't. What does it mean? Chyron headlines?If it's a typo, I can't figure it out.
I learned to pee in a urinal. Automatically made me a plumber.
Actually, I think I would rather have someone who managed NOT to have himself shot down and taken prisoner as my leader!
No disrespect to McCain, but enough with the cranky old white guys with millionaire wives! We need to start seriously electing people like Obama who at least came from the common man!
"I’m sorry, being shot down, to say that doesn’t qualify you to be President-this man has been around war, been in actual war zones while Wesley Clark was sitting in an air-conditioned room, telling people what to do with NATO, so I don’t know if he’s exactly the right guy to go out there. "
Clark was in Vietnam and got shot four times. He won battles and knows what it is like to send troops into harms way.
If being held POW qualifies you for president, then that Columbian Bettencourt looks more qualified than McSame. Can the Repigs recruit her?
Can someone please correct his name?
It's Cenk Uygur, not Cenk Ugyur.
Chenk is absolutely right Clark said nothing bad about McSame. It's just the stupid reichwing media trying to spin it into something it's not!
republican = insanity!
I drink milk.
I guess that makes me qualified to be a dairy farmer.
"Clark was then given command of A Company, 1st Battalion, 16th Infantry of the 1st Infantry Division in January 1970. In February, only one month into his command, he was shot four times by a Viet Cong soldier with an AK-47. The wounded Clark shouted orders to his men, who counterattacked and defeated the Viet Cong force. Clark had injuries to his right shoulder, right hand, right hip, and right leg, and was sent to Valley Forge Army Hospital in Phoenixville, Pennsylvania to recuperate. He was awarded the Silver Star for his actions during the encounter."
Oh, the media really wants to compare service records? They're in for a hell of a shock.
Comment # 106 > I learned to pee in a urinal. Automatically made me a plumber.
...................................................
In my 20s Because I attempted suicide I was in a mental hospital for 6 months. I guess that makes me a qualified therapist now !!
It sounded like they cut Cenk off right as he was going to rebut Ben's comment about Wes Clark's service, unfortunately. Cenk did great in a difficult situation--he was strong and spoke the truth. If only our politicians could show the same spine. I hope he goes far in his career because he's one of the best voices we have. Support The Young Turks and you won't regret it!!
This is not original, but it bears repeating. By John Yoo's definition, Mr. McCain was not tortured for five years as Mr Furgeson said! He did not suffer major organ damage or death, therefore it was "5 years of enhanced interrogation"
Air-conditioned room?
Look here you little bowl-haircut snotty turd:
Slogging through the jungles of Vietnam, getting watching young men die and then getting shot yourself...4 times...is for real.
You disrespecful little brat. Maybe if we had a draft in this country, little shits like you would know what war is. You would learn to never spew crap like that. It's chicken-shit little rich boys like you who start wars, like your frat boy hero Bush.
It's men who fight them.
No one is questioning McCain's service. Give me a break. Your going to tell me that a former infantryman, then NATO commander, doesen't have the experience to command our military?
When Kerry was swiftboated last presidential elections in 2004, with so many lies even questioning his military medals given to him for bravery, nobody from the media came to defend him..
Here we have the media went on the attack against General Clark..although Gen. Clark did not attack McCain's military record or his patriotism...
Simply Gen. Clark stated that being a pilot in a war is not a qualification to be the President of United States.
The media did not mind attacking Gen. Wesely Clark although Clark himself served in the same Viet Nam war and was wounded more than once in that war...but the hero to the media is still the untouchable McCain.
The new Republican logic:
«What's that? He was a POW? Oh then why didn't you say so. Of course that makes him qualified to be a president. How dare a Rhodes scholar questions this assertion.»
This whole thing makes my brain itch. I always thought that strong reading and oral comprehension skills were requirements for a career in journalism. Guess not. These guys twist facts into knots that a contortionist could only dream of. No Child Left Behind sure left these bozos in the dust. The behavior of the press regarding McCain is nothing less than appalling.
C L A R K for VICE PRES
more experience than any Bush clones.
more creditbilty, more trust
Mcsame has BRIAN DAMAGE for the vet cong
IF it smells like BUSH than it is...
Osiris hit the nail dead on the head . But I wonder , why everyone needs to defend what Clarke said . He stood his ground and didn't back down ...
What no one who goes on the networks to defend what he said is doing , is mentioning that it was Rove and Bush who totally discredited McC in 2000 with this info .
So it's out there , the people blew their chance to have the war hero and chose the zero .
They need to Buck up and suck it up .
That conservative guy looks like a block of fudge, and is just about as intelligent.
Of course Clarke is right. We're all glad Clarke tossed it "out there."
gawd @ 65:
Hey c'mon...you must always idolize our precious troops.
As Jon Stewart noted a couple of years ago, 'air-conditioned room' is Rumsfeld-speak for 'pussy' so when that right-wing tool Ben Ferguson said that, Cenk should have laid into him with both barrels. I know I would have.
A. This "controversy" is more manufactured than even the John Kerry "stuck in Iraq" crap.
B. How can that pissant Ferguson talk about devaluing someone's military service while simultaneously ripping Gen. Clark (talking about having been in actual war-zones instead of air-conditioned rooms)?
C. Where were these chuckleheads when the Republicans were saying that John Kerry had faked his purple hearts?
Phil @ 113:
From the NATO website:
General Wesley K. Clark, US Army
(1997-2000 )
General Wesley K. Clark became the Supreme Allied Commander Europe on 11 July 1997. He is also the Commander-in-Chief, United States European Command.
General Clark's last assignment was as Commander-in-Chief, United States Southern Command, Panama, from June 1996 to July 1997, where he commanded all U.S. forces and was responsible for the direction of most U.S. military activities and interests in Latin America and the Caribbean. His previous assignment was as the Director, Strategic Plans and Policy, J5, the Joint Staff (April 1994-June 1996) where he was the staff officer responsible for world-wide politico-military affairs and U.S. military strategic planning. He also led the military negotiations for the Bosnian Peace Accords at Dayton.
General Clark is an Armor Officer who has commanded at every level from Company to Division. As the Commander 1st Cavalry Division, Fort Hood, Texas (August 1992-April 1994), he transitioned the Division into a rapidly deployable force and conducted three emergency deployments to Kuwait. During the Cold War, he commanded the 3rd Brigade, 4th Infantry Division (April 1986-March 1988), and the 1st Battalion, 77th Armor, 4th Infantry Division (February 1980-June 1982) at Fort Carson, Colorado. General Clark has also commanded three companies, to include a mechanized infantry company in combat in Vietnam.
General Clark spent 5 years training leaders and soldiers at the National Training Center (NTC), Fort Irwin, California, and with the Battle Command Training Program (BCTP). As the Commander of National Training Center (October 1989-October 1991), General Clark helped train many of the forces that subsequently saw combat operations in Desert Storm. During this time period, he developed new training methodologies for Division and Corps level training, helping to train 13 Divisions, and he conducted the first ever Corps level BCTP training exercise. In his first assignment at the National Training Center, as Commander Operations Group (August 1984-January 1986), he revised the overall training program by improving scenarios, enhancing After Action Reports, and developing the first Brigade-level training exercise and the first heavy-light rotations.
In addition to his work on the Joint Staff, his other major staff assignments have included service as Deputy Chief of Staff for Concepts, Doctrine and Developments, US Army Training and Doctrine Command, Fort Monroe, Virginia (October 1991-August 1992), Chief of the Army's Study Group, Office of the Chief of Staff of the Army, Washington, DC (October 1983-July 1984); Chief, Plans Integration Division, Office of the Deputy Chief of Staff for Operations and Plans, United States Army, Washington, DC (July 1983-September 1983).
General Clark is a 1966 graduate of the United States Military Academy at West Point, New York, where he graduated first in his class.
He holds a master's degree in Philosophy, Politics and Economics from Oxford University where he studied as a Rhodes Scholar (August 1966-August 1968). He is a graduate of the National War College, Command and General Staff College, Armor Officer Advanced and Basic Courses, and Ranger and Airborne schools. General Clark was a White House Fellow in 1975-1976 and served as a Special Assistant to the Director of the Office of Management and Budget. He has also served as an instructor and later Assistant Professor of Social Science at the United States Military Academy.
Among his military decorations are the Defense Distinguished Service Medal (three awards), Distinguished Service Medal, Silver Star, Legion of Merit (four awards), Bronze Star Medal (two awards), Purple Heart, Meritorious Service Medal (two awards), and the Army Commendation Medal (two awards).
General Clark was born on 23 December 1944 and grew up in Little Rock, Arkansas. He is married to the former Gertrude Kingston of Brooklyn, New York. He and his wife have one son, Wesley, who lives in California.
http://www.nato.int/cv/saceur/clark.htm
The above should certainly establish Wesley Clark's credentials for being credible when it comes to determining whether McCain's military experiences should establish McCain's credentials for Commander in Chief and/or his diplomatic capability or not.
""Those who haven't served are just as capable of making decisions for the welfare of the men and women in the armed forces..."
-Sen John Warner, R-VA
why the hell cannot the rest of the left wing pundits say it a easily and as succinctly as Cenk. He just shot down the whole argument against Wes Clarke. He said it the way I was saying it when I was yelling at the TV.
Stentor @ 125:
He did.. it was drowned out by Cenk said (and I paraphrase): you don't know what you're talking about, General Clark was shot 4 times.
that little pansy Ferguson is as much a chicken hawk as Kristol, cheney, rove, and rumsfeld. but heres the conceit: its fine if the person is a 'republican' whos served their time in the military. if theyre a 'democrat' then all gloves are off. off, as in unhinged.
what that little fairy stated was tantamount to unhinged Jean Schmidt calling war veteran, Jack Murtha, a coward a few years ago. she was in no position to say such a thing, but it didnt stop that ugly witch from saying it.
The repugs seem to have the Democrats backed into a corner. Whether we believe it or not we are forced to say "McCain served his country with honor." "I would never criticize McCain's honorable service record." B.S.
McCain is no hero. McCain is no hero. When are you people going to wake up and realize this. We are being forced to acknowledge something that we all know is a lie.
What puzzles me is why don't we just go back to the campaign of 2000 records and copy everything Bush said about McCain? The Bushies seemed to know everything about McCain. How did they get hold of his service record? If we repeat what Bush said the repugs should have no reason to deny it. We all know Bush doesn't lie and always tells the truth about everything.
Someone leave me locked in a room with that vomit inducing Ben Ferguson. I would have that large headed nerd bitch begging to join a labor union and read Karl Marx in 10 minutes.
McCain was tortured? Would that be the normal word use of torture, or the new Bush-defined term?
Not only did Wes Clark show bravery in Vietnam, but there's an incident in Richard Holbrooke's book "To End A War" in which he describes an incident in Bosnia where Wesley Clark rappelled into a ravine with sniper fire all around when a military vehicle hit a land mine and went off a cliff.
http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/h/holbrooke-war.html
"...Wes and I started running down the road, twenty pounds of extra weight cutting into our necks and chests. We rounded the hairpin turn and followed the road for almost a kilometer. Finally, we ran into a cluster of French vehicles on the road, including a medical vehicle that had, by chance, been coming up the road. They were grouped at the spot, we now realized, where the APC had bounced over the road and continued to somersault down the mountain. Below us trees had been flattened as if by a giant plow.
The shooting died down and rain began to fall. In addition to five Americans, four French soldiers--the driver and three other men who had been in the APC--were missing. We established a weak radio contact with the Embassy in Sarajevo through the Embassy radio net, but because we did not know exactly what had happened, we asked Sarajevo to hold off reporting anything to Washington. It was not quite 4:00 A.M. in Washington, and whatever had happened, there was nothing for them to do until we knew more.
Since I was the only person on the mountain who spoke both French and English, I stayed on the road to work with the French while Wes descended. We anchored a rope around a tree stump so that he could rappel toward the vehicle, which French and Bosnian soldiers had already reached. Huge plumes of smoke rose from somewhere below us. We could hear Clark yelling through his walkie-talkie that he needed a fire extinguisher urgently. I looked around frantically; there was none. ..."
I love the fact that they edited out the question proceeding the sound bite. Not sure how you can, "insinuate" anything when you responding to a question. More people should be asking this question and be damned the faux outrage it needs to be answered seeing as McCain seems to be running on his War record alone.
I remember reading an op ed by another prisoner of the same camp that detailed the experiences there over those 5 years (that person was actually in for 2.5 years more.)
I'm hoping someone has a link to it, he said that two years into McCain's tenure is when they stopped torturing and that the broken arms were a result of the crash if that triggers any memories.
Any help here?
Nickelking @ 138:
Found it http://www.military.com/opinion/0,15202,164859_1,00.html
Seems being a complete moron qualifies you to host a newsiness show on CNN.
"No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty five years, and been fourteen Years a resident within the United States."
U.S. Constitution, Article 2, Section 1
available at http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.articleii.html#sect...
The "qualifications" for being President are very few: (1) natural born citizen, (2) age 35 or over, and (3) resident for 14 years or more.
Clark was 100% accurate. Being a POW. Being shot down. Being tortured. These are not qualifications for being President. Nobody has any rational reason to be angered by Clark's statement.
Irrational reasons, therefore, must be at work.
Um..Mr. Ferguson, when did you serve your country??
Funny to see Mike Galanos at this level.
We pulled a few bongloads back in broadcasting school at SF State.
He was training to be the good-looking sports guy.
This is a big step up for his career, but he needs a little more reading time before jumping into these debates.
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