I boldly predict that exactly ZERO churches will be investigated/audited for this, until an Obama presidency at least.

baby jesus just wants a smart guy this time

Let's be fair: they didn't actually NAME McCain; they just told people not to vote for Obama. I love the part in the Post story where a pastor says he's making his views very clear because he's not sure parishioners can figure it out for themselves.

Jesus loves war for profit, says so right there in the KJV.

slightly O/T: Something I haven't seen mentioned is that a Vice President Palin would mean that President McCain is utterly absolutely unimpeachable, no matter what.

What's absolutely maddening is that media slime on CNN keep reporting this story and conveniently leaving out the point that it's Republican church freaks. CNN keeps presenting reports carefully crafted to make it seem like a mystery "hmmmm .... these mysterious pastors want to practice freedom of speech." .... no mention whatsoever that they are 100% dishonest McCain shill preachers.

Maybe it's about time that God smited these reprobates. These slimebags are arrogant and repulsive---a turd in the punchbowl of spirituality.

Make me King for a year. Ill put cameras in every tax exempt house of worship. One mention of politics and its bye bye tax breaks. Second time ? Ill just knock the buildings down with a bulldozer or blow them up. After i seize their bank accounts and liquid assets of course.

Tax their church's property.

No tax deductions for their congregation.

Put a tax on their mouths.

Whoops, is that going too far?

Jackasses are real brave until the IRS sends their notice. Then they will cry and scream all kinds of constitutional violations. Well, if the evangelicals want to pay taxes have a rally for McCain. But I bet they don't.

baby jesus @ 4:

baby jesus just wants a smart guy this time

We have one this time so join with us lit'l dude.

Act first, ask questions later. If someone would send the IRS some proof, say a videotape, of these pastors in action the IRS could cut off their tax exemption on the spot. It would be up to the church(es) to prove they should get it back.

A heft bill from Uncle Sugar might make them see the light or in their case "come to Jesus".

If they were endorsing Obama something would be done about it ...

Damn straight they have a constitutional right to free speech.
Of course, there's nothing in the constitution granting them freedom from taxation..

These guys are screwing themselves royally. Perhaps not in the court of public opinion but certainly in any real world court.

from 501(c)(3)

"no substantial part of the activities of which is carrying on propaganda, or otherwise attempting, to influence legislation (except as otherwise provided in subsection (h)), and which does not participate in, or intervene in (including the publishing or distributing of statements), any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for public office. "

Is that so hard to understand?

Do unto others what they would do unto you. Throw the book at them. Audit them. Make these assholes pay.
Didn't Bushco hassle some churches who somehow advocated voting for Kerry?

IRS doesn't say they can't endorse. The IRS says they can't endorse and still enjoy the benefits of a 501-c-3 non-profit tax exemption. Tax 'em.

Or to put it another way.. their thinking is simply backwards: They take their Tax Exemption for granted, and now they claim their right to Free Speech.
But it's the latter which is guaranteed by law, not the former.

I recall the Bush administration harassing some puny church for having a peace sign on their property, threatening loss of tax status, etc. I think the pastors are right about one thing: the Republicans will support them, and the cowardly Democrats will be afraid to oppose them. There will be no consequences for their breaking the law.

According to the new definition, an unlawful act intended to alter or influence policy is an act of terrorism.

i can imagine that these pastors
are on bended knee praying to
their god-of-choice asking for
forgiveness for fucking over their congregation.

i don't care if he gets an endorsement from the pope himself.

there's nothing that's going to keep johnny maverick's straight jacket express from going over the cliff and into the dustbin of history.

Capatain Bitter Elitist Kangaroo @ 35:

The Very Bitter Ceci Hussein @ 33:

OMG. Please SM, remove my double post. I am very sorry for that happening. :(

How embarrassing. ;^)

;-D

Well, I know how annoying double posts can be sometimes if it is the same thing repetitiously. :(

I'm just glad that it was promptly taken care of and that the SM got my message. :)

Nothing is going to happen to the maniacal religious right. They get a bye.

God help the Episcopal priest or UU minister who has an Obama sticker on his car.

baby jesus @ 4:

baby jesus just wants a smart guy this time

Thank you baby jesus. So do I.

I see two possible outcomes to the (inevitable) audits and lawsuits:

1) The pastors lose their case, and the churches lose their tax-exempt status

or

2) The pastors win their case, and the courts decide it's okay for churches to enter politics and remain tax exempt. Six months later, every 527 and political group now claims it to be "The Church of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth" (or whatever), so that it too can be tax-exempt. One year after that, the entire concept of "tax exemption for churches" is thrown out as unworkable, because how do you determine who is or is not a church, anymore?

Let them scream it from the tops of their pulpits - just after they pay their taxes!

Once these fly by night schiesters get hit in the money belt, they will STFU.

baby jesus also asks that the next president pronounce nuclear correctly

So the Bush Administration will enforce the law here, right?

Actually what ministers and other clergy across the country should be doing is emulating the example of Fathers Philip and Daniel Berrigan, who had the courage and moral certitude to protest the presence of the United States in Vietnam, by speaking out against the illegal and immoral occupations of Afghanistan and Iraq and urging both McCain and Obama to call for the immediate withdrawal of U.S. forces from those two countries. That is certainly what good Christians should be doing, which is urging their leaders to speak out against these illegal occupations. The clergy today would also do well to remember the words of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. who reminded the country in his Beyond Vietnam speech that "the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today [is] my own government."

make your own couric interview with the palin interview answer generator!

http://interviewpalin.com/

here’s a sample (warning, this has the appearance of actually being a true palin answer but it is indeed fiction, which unfortunately cannot be said of the couric interviews):

Q: What is the role of the US in Iraq and Afghanistan?

Afghanistan will lead to further security of our nation, especially with homeowners. It’s just right over the border. It is from Alaska that we send those out to make sure that this happens. We’ve got to remember what the desire is in their country, also. And I asked President Karzai, “Is that what President Bush has attempted to do things better. But it is to control much more than a heck of a lot of background work first and shoring up allies and positions and figuring out what sanctions perhaps could be more comfortable and certainly safer. First off, we’re going to continue good relations with Saakashvili there.

pray for a secular nation.

This stupid stunt may have worked 4 or 8 yrs ago, but not now. I’m sure the IRS is in dire need of some extra cash so who better to tap than the conservative ideologists who got us where we are today.

It's extremely shortsighted on their part. If endorsing a candidate from the pulpit is legitimized - regardless of tax implications - it means everyone gets to do so. The rabbi down the street, the imam at the mosque a few blocks over, even the Wiccan high priest/priestess (not that many of the latter have an actual church and/or 501c3 status).

Furthermore, it cheapens the pulpit and the preacher both - the pulpit is a place from which a message of inspiration should come, not directives on how to vote. It shows a fundamental lack of faith in one's congregation, that - without the preacher's electoral guidance - the flock is easily corrupted, led astray, and just plain stupid. So nice that you hold us in such high esteem, pastor.

Lastly, it goes against the very teachings of Christ, who railed against the temple square becoming a marketplace, and who urged us to render unto Caesar what was Caesar's. I'd even go so far to say that the Commandment to keep holy the Sabbath could be construed as not sullying the pulpit with earthly politics.

McPale's Navy @ 55:

I guess they've been at it again, ripping passages out their bibles so it conforms to their own ideologies their pulpits can continue to give them a place of power and control through their use of fear:

Romans 13

1. Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.

Right. That passage has been used before as a defense for obedience to the state. There was even some program that had ministers selected to preach such in the event of a 'national disaster' (i.e. another turrurrist attack on 'murica) - never mind Blackwater roaming the streets, or the KBR relocation camps - it's all God's Work.

You all have missed the fundamental point. Currently in the United States only half of the religion part of the First Amendment is enforced. The exercise clause is enforced but the establishment clause is not. Tax exemptions for churches are a clear violation of the establishment clause, since they put the government in the position of deciding who is a legitimate religion and who is not.

Enforce the establishment clause, tax churches, problem solved.

i wonder if rev wright or father phlager have ever endorsed obama from the pulpit - im certain the outrage would be just as immediate by the folks on this comment page...please

I go to Church every week, but not one of these fraud churches. I go to worship God not some loud-mouthed preacher. Church is about God and the preacher's job is supposed to be about leading people to God. When they fail that task they should find another line of work. But probably they would not make as much money. I find it hard to believe how brain-dead these people are that they sit there and let these clowns get away with this crap. This nonsense is not the will of God, no matter what the preacher says.

Well if they dont pay the tax bill which shouldbe sent within the week, then clap the charlatans in irons, and take them to the brig. They can pray while waiting for appeal..about ten years from now.

Why are churches tax-exempt anyway? Isn't tithe just a form of taxation? My American Heritage Dictionary seems to think it is. I'll throw my lot in with George Carlin and Frank Zappa before Jerry Falwell and Anal Roberts thank you very much.

Desperate sanctimonious assholes know their gravy train is about to crash.

They're unwilling to put their money where their mouthes are. Money Talks, BS Walks.

"The effort by the Arizona-based legal consortium is designed to trigger an IRS investigation that ADF lawyers would then challenge in federal court. The ultimate goal is to persuade the U.S. Supreme Court to throw out a 54-year-old ban on political endorsements by tax-exempt houses of worship." -Washington Post
All the more reason to vote for Obama. Keep the right-wing from packing the courts.

an evangelical Christian minister told his congregation Sunday that voting for Sen. Barack Obama would be evidence of “severe moral schizophrenia.”

How very "Christian" of him.

Endorsing this vile warmonger John McCain is not Christian, it is the devil's endorsement.

This is such an overlooked and vital component of the American political system and "democracy" in general.

Thomas Frank may have done the most articulate job at describing this culture in WTMWK. This is more than just the Evangelical movement pushing it's agenda on the pulpit, it is a larger scale extremist from of Christianity that permeates main stream society but is larger threat to true democratic principles when you get to the bright red areas.

When you factor in how the Bush admin has used this to their advantage and worked towards breaking down the 501 C3 safeguards. Basically turn preachers into lobbyists and watch the money fly.

So you'd have a quasi theocratic-fascist state, the right wings mighty triangulation of power--church, corporations and perverse government.

Yet another reason this election is so important.

I get very nervous when these Religious Right churches try to buck the system like this. A lot of folks here are saying yank the tax exempt status from all of religious organizations.

Contrary to what most of the anti-religion crowd that frequents this blog believes, most churches and other religious organizations are NOT rolling in money. The church I pastor barely makes budget every year. And if we lose our tax exempt status, that's it. Who then will feed the poor who use our food pantry? Who then will provide money for those in need when the gas bill falls behind in the middle of winter? Those are ministries of my church, which is situated in a community of 700 in rural America where the average income hovers barely above the poverty line.

There's more to the church (and all religions) than the megachurch with 10,000 affluent members. A significant number of lower income people rely on religious organizations for help in times of need, help that is given freely because it's the right thing to do.

You may not believe in what I preach from my pulpit. That's your freedom. But don't punish me, my parishioners, and the people of my community for the idiocy of these Religious Right fools who seem to think Jesus would have endorsed criminals and warmongers as our secular leaders.

Anything is possible now that pregnant, unwed teen-aged girls are a Republican value.

Time to tax the these pastors along with their knuckle dragging congregants back to the stone age where they can romp around with the dinosaurs.