CafePress stops selling Psalms 109:8 items
h/t Heather for video.
It should come as a surprise to no one that some wingnuts think it's cool to use the Bible to promote veiled threats against the President. Disgusting.
But using online personalized item sites to spread the word? Apparently this Maddow segment from Thursday had an impact in ending that. Cafepress is now following Zazzle.com and pulling the "Pray for Obama" merchandise that clearly expressed a wish for his demise. The CafePress website announced yesterday:
This morning we made the decision to remove all Psalms 109:8 designs from CafePress.
General consensus has proven that the design does point to a broader interpretation of the Psalm and thus has been deemed inappropriate for sale at CafePress.
We try to create an atmosphere of self-expression. Many of the things we encounter are not black and white, but grey. When the dialogue is civil, we want to let the larger community work things out rather than making an uninformed ruling. The dialogue has played out and common sentiment has reached agreement – this merchandise is not appropriate.
Thank you all for your input.
Transcript of Rachel Maddow's segment below the cut:
And today, in “invoking God to make your own creepy political point” news, earlier this week, we reported on how Psalm 109:8 has been merchandised recently by particularly virulent haters of the president.
Psalm 109:8 reads, quote, “Let his days be few and let another take his office.” The psalm then continues, “Let his children be fatherless and his wife a widow. Let his children continually be vagabonds and beg. Let them seek their bread also from their desolate places. Let the creditor seize all that he has and let strangers plunder his labor. Let there be none to extend mercy to him nor let there be any favor to his fatherless children.”
We reported two days ago that the opening verse of that sentiment is being promoted as a prayer for Obama on bumper stickers, mouse pads, teddy bears, aprons, frame tiles, keepsake boxes and t-shirts.
Those items from “CafePress.com” as of today are no longer available for sale there. But some other mugs and shirts and cards with the same message still are. After initially pulling down some of these items, Cafe Press issued a statement saying they would allow them in the interest of free speech. We posted the full statement about the merchandise from Cafe Press at “Rachel.MSNBC.com” if you‘d like to read it.
Another company that, like Cafe Press, allows you to buy and sell personalized clothing and gear reached the opposite conclusion when they looked into the Psalm 109 controversy. “Zazzle.com” told us today, quote, “We have determined that these products may be interpreted in such a way as to suggest physical harm to the president of the United States.”
So “Zazzle.com” pulled this merchandise. Whether or not these things violate individual user agreements is up to the companies, of course, to decide. Whether or not they violate one‘s basic sense of decency - well, that decision is up to you.
http://shop.cafepress.com/109
If you click on the button pack one...the item has been deleted. The bumper stickers are still available for $5 each it seems.
And they've still got a butt-load of the T-shirts up.
I just sent this to their customer service dept.:
[I heard that you were halting the sales of the hateful "Pray for Obama-Psalm 109" products, but I still see them listed. Please get your act together and have them removed. In fact, why don't you also let the Secret Service know who's promoting those items?]
Maybe it's time we brought back the old "America-Love it or Leave it" bumper stickers. ;^)
They have to go after stuff that's already there. If the fanatics keep putting the items in, CafePress has to go after them to delete.
So instead of sneering at CP, just email them and point the items out. That way they'll know to delete them.
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
"It should come as a surprise to know one that..."
Shouldn't that be, "It should come as a surprise to *no one* that..."?
It takes 1 to know Juan.
of pot will not be without reefercussions.
it is loaded with the stuff.
"A man who views the world the same at fifty as he did at twenty has wasted thirty years of his life."....Muhammad Ali
go off and try to add more merchandise to test the resolve of anyone trying to stop this. I saw two items which had been added since the Maddow segment.
Thanks for the typo catch; I fixed. - BG
ME: This product is calling for the death of Obama.
Don't you have any rules there?
THEM: Dear Zazzle Member or Concerned Citizen-
Today, there has surfaced a great deal of discussion and debate over certain products in the Zazzle Marketplace which reference text from Psalm 109 in combination with reference to President Barack Obama. We at Zazzle are aware of the issue, and would like to take this opportunity to respond in a unified and public fashion to all parties and viewpoints.
Zazzle puts great value on its Marketplace as a forum for discussion and debate of the issues of our day. We are proud of the fact that no matter how arcane or apparently esoteric a subject may be, there can often be found Zazzle products pertaining to it. We are particularly sensitive to Zazzle as an open forum for the expression and debate of political viewpoints. The rigorous debate and discussion of political issues, including candidates for political office, our elected leaders, and pending and actual legislation, is something that drives the very democracy that in turn allows for our freedom as citizens to make these expressions in the first place.
With that in mind, it is only after great thought that we have determined that these products, in the context of the full text of Psalm 109, may be interpreted in such a way as to suggest physical harm to the President of the United States. In deference to the Office of the President of the United States, and in accordance with federal law prohibiting the making of threats against the physical wellbeing of the President of the United States, Zazzle has therefore determined that these products are in violation of the Zazzle User Agreement and not appropriate for inclusion in the Zazzle Marketplace. We have begun efforts to remove them from our website, and we will be vigilant to the publication of similar products moving forward.
Zazzle will continue to allow and encourage the submission of products that express disapproval or approval of the President’s policies and actions, but Zazzle will not permit products that may be interpreted to suggest violence toward the President.
Sincerely,
The Zazzle Team
________________________________________________
Socialist, atheistic, musical, legal marijuana smoker, voter, father, husband, son, valued (by some) community member, Steely Dan fan
Could this be considered blasphemous?
The product speaks for itself...
Study the symptoms not the virus...
Let me give you an unabashedly, almost fundamentalistically Christian response to this use of Psalm 109:8.
The people who have made this slogan, with its t-shirts, bumper stickers, and paraphernalia, have no experience in praying the Psalms.
When a Christian comes to a Psalm like 109, it always requires a deep breath, a moment of self-reflection, and sometimes even a pre-prayer prayer. Not because there is something wrong with the Psalm -- I accept it as a divine revelation of what human prayer is to be -- but because none of us this side of God are good enough to pray a prayer of judgment like this on a fellow human being. The author [David?] indicates that the person he is speaking about is someone that he has loved and prayed for, and has been has been treated with curses and persecution in return. The New Testament applies this Psalm to Judas: loved by Christ and then repaying that love with betrayal. Only Jesus Christ could pray this prayer perfectly; a Christian can pray it rightly only by “teaming up” with him.
It is a solemn meditation on the nature of damnation, and those who dare to pray this Psalm are (by their prayer) asking the Lord for the spiritual depth and unity with their Savior that would make this prayer possible. Yes, whenever we ask the Lord that his will be done, we are asking that all other wills be undone, but it seldom is made as blunt and unmistakable as in Psalm 109. It is not a Psalm to be prayed lightly.
The people who came up with this little political barb no doubt think themselves clever. But they are offensive, not only politically, but spiritually. People should not play around with the word of God.
... for your opinion, time and generous explanation. ♥
Study the symptoms not the virus...
People should not play around with the word of God.
Yes, they should. Maybe we'll stop taking it so seriously, then.
Everyone is equally entitled to the pursuit of happiness. Wasn't that once self evident?
Which One?
What is your conceptual, continuity?
Psalm 109
For the director of music. Of David. A psalm.
1 O God, whom I praise,
do not remain silent,
2 for wicked and deceitful men
have opened their mouths against me;
they have spoken against me with lying tongues.
3 With words of hatred they surround me;
they attack me without cause.
4 In return for my friendship they accuse me,
but I am a man of prayer.
5 They repay me evil for good,
and hatred for my friendship.
Some stuff you can't make up!
...copywrited, (years ago) ...this never would have happened!
audit-prosecute-incarcerate
...from now on, (I'm gonna pray in private)!
audit-prosecute-incarcerate
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"2 hands working do more than 1,000 clasped in prayer"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Study the symptoms not the virus...
starts off sounding pretty bad ..."Let his children be fatherless and his wife a widow"
It obviously doesn't advocate violence! (because) ...the psalm continues...
"and let strangers plunder his labor"
How in the hell can you plunder labor from someone who is dead?
...so obviously this psalm does not advocate violence at all!
(It merely says that Obama should be sentenced to hard labor in prison for the rest of his life)
...presumably (I suppose) for violating his oath to "uphold and defend" the constitution
audit-prosecute-incarcerate
his office." You are refering to Psalm 109:9 and from there on. Add 109:8 to the ones you quoted. Does it sound like they want the person in question hanging around long enough to enslave? No, I interpret it as wanting the "fruits" of his labor.
They are definitely stirring up violence.
I've never seen change without a fire
before his death. The fruits of his labors. If you weren't trying so hard to be clever, you might have figured that out. I do not suffer fools gladly, and you are a fool.
just go ahead and rewrite "god's words"
...if you want to add the word "fruits"
go right ahead.
I suppose next you want to add words to the constitution too?
audit-prosecute-incarcerate
context. Christians and anyone else who read the Bible do it all the freaking time.
You're wanting to nitpick, but the bigger picture contradicts you.
I've never seen change without a fire
Words have meaning. If all you can do is to take things literally, then so be it. Just don't expect anyone with a brain to take you or your bullshit seriously. Read this: How DARE you take the wrong side on this issue.
"I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and constitutions, but laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors."--Thomas Jefferson
Study the symptoms not the virus...
Interesting this about Jefferson was that as president he had to fight Barbary pirates, which provides the basis for fighting without a Declaration of War from Congress.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Coast-GOD :P
Study the symptoms not the virus...
Manannán Mac Lyr, Dagon or perhaps Manawydden ap Llyr?
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Let his days be few and let another take his office. Let his children be fatherless and his wife a widow.
There is nothing ambiguous about this passage. It is one of the more explicit curses in the Bible. And--as a prayer--is a request for the death of the president.
This is no "sentence to hard labor"; it is a prayer for President Obama's death.
...is not a father or a husband!
audit-prosecute-incarcerate
Is this how you would regard yourself if you were put in jail? No longer a parent nor spouse? A non-entity?
Prisoners are de-humanized?
Everyone is equally entitled to the pursuit of happiness. Wasn't that once self evident?
Is looking for rehabilitation, not judgment and condemnation from cruel and insensitive people like you, Milquetoast.
"We will find fulfillment not in the goods that we have, but in the good we can do for each other."
Robert F. Kennedy
weeks once while I was a child. He never ceased to be my father. He was just absent. MacDaffy is right, the passage is very explicit. And Savannah is also right; you are a fool.
I've never seen change without a fire
...cannot properly function as husband or father.
(better)?
audit-prosecute-incarcerate
You clearly know nothing about people in prison. A man in jail *can* properly function as a husband or father. It is about his relationship to his family, not his physical location.
You know that saying about "better to stay silent and merely be thought a fool"? You really should start staying silent, Mil.
...the Psalms were written? Anything like jails?
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
What slimy Republicanesque, vacuous arguments you present. Many parts of the bible need interpretation, but there is no other way to interpret, “Let his children be fatherless and his wife a widow."
Jail isn't what the Psalm is about: When you see the word "widow" that can only mean one thing: Hubby is deceased. Not in jail. Not lost. Not derelict. Dead.
Maybe you should try another approach, Milquetoast. This one's toast.
Read BC's post, Milky, and quit trying to hide your disingeniousness behind lame attempts at wit.
Verse 8 calls for "his days to be few". That's death, not a job change or a prison sentence. The rest of the Psalm is a prolonged curse dismantling the dead man's life and the inheritence left to his widow and children. It is intended to end the life and the wipe out the existence.
"How in the hell can you plunder labor from someone who is dead?"
By violently wiping out his estate - which I suspect you very well know.
can spell.
man's bloodline. The Psalm is clearly calling for annhilation.
I've never seen change without a fire
Oh how clever. Take a passage from the Bible and misinterpret it for you own selfish goals.
I wanna play...
“This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.”
hhmmmmm – maybe not so clever after all. Evangelicals have been doing it for years.
of course they sold them for weeks gladly until rachel maddow pointed alight at them.
americans will do anything for money, rip off house buyers, sell legislation and of course start wars.
some people will even make money off political issues while refusing to take a stand on the ones that will save this democracy.
Lets run America like the bible wants us to do.
Kill all gays; kill all who work on sunday's, etc.
Oh and how about those that commit adultery. That should wipe out a few repubs.
The bible is full of wisdom but it also contains a lot of ignorance and the materialists and the religious don’t have a clue, which is which.
Here is the interesting part both the atheists and the religious claim their truths to be thee truths. Both think they are the only one with a mind that knows reason and logic.
They are more alike than different and they don’t have a clue of that likeness.
Racism is coming out of the woodwork since Obama got elected. Five blacks in the white house has confirmed white America’s worst fears. Especially the repubs the white man’s party and the old folks like me. My generation turned out to be very selfish and very racist.
Most of my retired friends on social security and Medicare state to me let the young work for it like they did not realizing they leaved in a different reality in America. I.e. selfishness revealed.
In America Christianity died on the cross. America is more about Darwinism survival of the fittest than the teachings of Jesus.
"In America Christianity died on the cross. America is more about Darwinism survival of the fittest than the teachings of Jesus."
Another trouble is this: Most people do NOT think. They just accept the mumbo jumbo that is spouted at them from the pulpits and from the mouths of uneducated, self-important, self-promoting, greedy shills like Palin!
It advocates smashing the heads of babies against rocks.
I guess it's okay as long as they're not fetuses.
...hate speech huh?
I know the (King James version) starts off with instructions on how to treat slaves!
{ If you derail this thread again, or any other thread. It may be the last time you do so. SiteMonitor}
audit-prosecute-incarcerate
defending those who support murder is hate speech.
And I think that wanting to imprison a POTUS for not fixing and solving eight years of damage by Bush in under ten months is truly bone-headed and mean spirited.
Sat, 11/21/2009 - 14:47 — Milquetoast
________________________________________________________________
As presented, the King James version starts with Genesis and at one time two variant Creation stories, the Garden of Eden and Noah and his Ark. Neither were original with the writers.
And even with the Jews there was for the Garden (a Babylonian concept likely inspired them), has Elohist, Yahwist, Deuteronomic and Priestly versions, sort of mixed together.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
STFU. Please.
NOBODY 2012
"Here is the interesting part both the atheists and the religious claim their truths to be thee truths."
I don't know about the religious, but we atheists do *not* claim that. We merely do not believe in any gods.
Kindly stop libeling us atheists with your ignorant ranting.
I missed that one.
Most atheists that I know believe that which can be proven by scientific method.
It is not a matter of taking anything on faith. It is the opposite.
Atheism existed long before the scientific method.
And some atheists spend almost as much time denouncing other's for their beliefs, as the most hardcore fundamentalist
Only the terminology changes.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
that atheism has been with us for a long time.
I was simply stating that the atheists that I know today tend to accept scientific method as the best system for finding various truths.
And I think that many atheists today feel that they must speak out against superstition or risk becoming firewood for the Inquisition yet again.
I would argue that it is not the scientific method they base it on, but some combination of materialism, naturalism and experientialism.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
I agree though on speaking out when others seek to impose their beliefs.
I would probably concede no ground myself to someone debating we need more religion in this country.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Very few atheists do that. The vast majority of us are live-let-live types who are happy to leave people alone as long as they return the favor. Only a very tiny minority have taken to counter-punching before the fight even starts.
Study the symptoms not the virus...
I think of myself as essentially a secularist.
Whatever works for me will work for thee is nonsense, whether it comes from a theist or an atheist.
So you make institutions that will protect and be answerable to both,
But the danger is anyone trying to alter the institutions neutral stance.
Afterall, what good is freedom of speech or press if everyone professes the same thing, maybe under coercion?
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
"In America Christianity died on the cross. America is more about Darwinism survival of the fittest than the teachings of Jesus."
"Social darwinism" is a belief and practice of the rabidly religious and wealthy, not nature: "let the rich stay rich and let the poor die" is how they think, but that's not how nature works.
Real Darwinian evolution is about adapting to a changing environment, like dealing with the fact that a black man is the US president. Those unwilling to deal with change aren't going survive - not because anyone kills them, but because they don't have the skills to survive. "White majority America" is disappearing now just as Native America disappeared for the Native people 300 years ago. Nothing lasts forever.
On the question of whether such use is blasphemous I would answer yes
Christians should adopt the outlook of the Quietists in such matters and say things are the way they are as an expression of G-d's Will.
It is somewhat defeatist though, and can cause them to be apathetic on the Xian's part's, with a "Pie in the sky, bye-and-bye" attitude.
But at one time it was believed that priests sometimes secretly read Burial Services for the Dead that would cause their deaths.
But even here the distinction was that it was a priest, not a layman.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
I have to admit though that the heresy of the Quietists was that they used G-d's Will as an all-around excuse for their own sins, "If I sin, it's G-d's Will."
But I doubt they were so indulgent of others.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
The ABC's of the Bible
Study the symptoms not the virus...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCCUUi5rx-0
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Thanks, I actually LOLed. (Is that right? Anyway, I really laughed so that someone nearby would have been able to hear me.)
http://images.clipartof.com/small/17624-Middl...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
How about vile?
CafePress will never see another dime from me.
So if anyone wants to sell a logo on an item?
Better field it elsewhere or I won't buy it.
I bet other folks feel the same.
The items were still on sale when I looked. Clearly, they don't seem too concerned about removing them. At least the newspaper which ran the "follow in the footsteps of Kennedy and Lincoln" want ad didn't know the intent, these bastards do.
They should change their name to KaffirPress, it suits them and their attitude toward Obama.
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