Smart and dumb ways to trash your enemies
So I've been following recently the debate that's been going on between Digby and Jamelle Bouie over whether it's really wise to use hyperbole and over-the-top mockery to thrash your political opponents. As you can imagine, I largely side with Digby on this matter and find constructions like this from Bouie to be particularly annoying:
Unlike myself, Moulitsas isn't a journalist, and his job isn't to be an honest broker for ideas; no, it's to rally progressives and score points against conservatives.
Bouie seems to me like the sort of person, to use the phrase of an old acquaintance, who would have been extremely upset that the wicked John Swift would suggest eating all those Irish babies.
Using hyperbole and outlandish mockery to skewer one's political opponents is a wonderful human tradition that extends back centuries. Not only is it a terrific way to blow off steam, but if done smartly it also garners attention by making your opponents convulse into fits of rage. Newt Gingrich understands this better than any other political figure -- he'll say stuff that he knows is outrageous and untrue simply to capture media attention and to push the conversation further to the right. Instead of coming out and saying, "I disapprove of Obama's plan to open up exchanges where people can get government-subsidized health insurance," he says something along the lines of "Barack Hussein Obama's secular socialist machine and its government takeover of health care post a greater threat to the United States than Hitler ever did." While liberals will all shriek and hem and haw about Gingrich's ridiculous rhetoric, the media will report it as, "Liberals deny that Obamacare is worse than the Nazis."
The idea is that you should always be whacking your opponent in the face with something that will force them to respond in a defensive manner. Markos understands this very well which is why his blog has been such a huge success in mobilizing people and money to elect progressive candidates over the past decade. The liberal establishment, best exemplified by Bouie's quote above, thinks that we only need to be "honest brokers for ideas" in order to win over the American public. Sorry but that ain't so.
That said!
I also think that in order to use hyperbole and caricature successfully, you have to also do it intelligently. If you're looking for a no-so-smart way of thrashing your opposition, look no further than this example cited by Bob Somerby today. This is Ed Schultz doing absolutely everything you don't want to do when you go on offense:
Beck’s rally, I’m telling you, folks, was no big shakes. It is not going to have any impact on the midterms. It’s what’s in our hearts and what we want to do to save this country is what it’s all about. Thousands of his followers—let me say it again so they don’t have to edit the tape: They were old, white, angry Americans who can’t stand the fact that there’s a black guy in the White House.
Let us count the ways that this is a really dumb and obnoxious thing to say:
- First, Schultz uses the words "old" and "white" as derogatory adjectives. Fellow liberals, this is a very silly way of trying to go after your opposition. In the first place, we liberals generally defend things like Social Security and Medicare, which are both designed to help old people, most of which are old white people. What's the point of expressing contempt for the people you're trying to help? Also, old white people vote in very large numbers. Do you really want to hand the vote of old white people to the GOP by calling them racists? And yes I know Schultz doesn't think every old white person is a racist. But why, then, use the terms "old" and "white" like they're slurs?
- Second, Schultz attacks people who are less powerful than he is. This is a major no-no for any major pundit or political figure. It allows demagogic jackasses like Beck and Palin to go on air and say, 'See? Ed Schultz thinks that if you're old and white you must hate black people!' Make no mistake, Republicans positively love it when a progressive lashes out at old, white people. They also love it when we call other people "rednecks," "trailer trash," and other terms intended to disparage blue-collar white people. Again, these are the people we're supposed to be helping out. They are unlikely to ever support us if we think they're all inbred hicks.
Now, I've made my share of yokel jokes about Confederate Yankee in the past so I'm just as guilty of this as anyone. But I've come to the conclusion that it's just not cool to use derogatory terms that are intended as insults to working-class people, no matter their race.
Now before you accuse me of being a Jamelle Bouie-style softy, let me say that I believe wholeheartedly in going after your opposition and whacking them as hard as you can. But it's something that has to be done by going after the elites within the Tea Party movement rather than individual protesters.
Defining Markos as a progressive simply proves how far to the right this country has moved.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
The line has moved so far right, yesterday's communists are now considered today's moderates. Hell, if you are to the left of Newt Gingrich, you are considered a liberal elitist!
Election 2012: Be Educated! Be Active! Vote!
www.PhoenixJustice.com
of Attila the Hun.
“The greatest evildoers are those who don’t remember because they have never given thought to the matter, and, without remembrance, nothing can hold them back,”
Attila the Hun was a progressive by today's theocratic fascist standards.
Election 2012: Be Educated! Be Active! Vote!
www.PhoenixJustice.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBZG1obyR64
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anwy2MPT5RE
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
But I've come to the conclusion that it's just not cool to use derogatory terms that are intended as insults to working-class people, no matter their race.
Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
Wood chipper?
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Probably. You're not allowed to burn your trash anymore.
Damn tree huggin' bastages.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
talking his fluffy talk about how "Congress" needs to pass the small business bill that the Republicans are preventing from passage. One wonders what his goal is.
to pass a much needed bill.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
Obama won't even name the party that is holding up the passage of the bill? Instead he blames "Congress" and by doing so, also Democrats. Clever.
damn Blue Dogs?
“The greatest evildoers are those who don’t remember because they have never given thought to the matter, and, without remembrance, nothing can hold them back,”
It strikes me I've read about that sort of thing right here.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WO4wcNVbYOQ
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Between people who think that decisions are made through a rational examination of the facts, or on basic emotional hunches.
The evidence is in- and has been for some time - people make decisions emotionally, not rationally. They may rationally develop choices, but the decisions are always emotional. They have to "feel right".
As long as the left is rational and reasonable it will lose. Badly. Don't like it? Tough. That's how humans are built.
You either adjust your method of communication to fit the audience, or simply lose the debate.
Chimps can read Aristotle - they can look at the squiggly lines on the paper - they just don't understand what they're looking at.
Same with people. You can't argue fairly with large numbers of people. They, as a collective, have neither the intelligence or skillsets to suss out the finer points of an argument. They just want to know the basics, and if the basics are presented in a way that resonates and confirms their preferences, they'll go along with it.
Otherwise, they tune you out.
Example: peak oil. Fact: oil production is at or near peak. Fact: our civilisation is completely dependent on the stuff. Fact: we, as a civilisation, aren't doing anything near big enough to even mitigate, much less solve, the problem. Therefore: Collapse.
Those are the facts. Now, convince people to do something about it.
See?
Therefore: Collapse.
It's called the American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it.
-George Carlin
nerves sometimes, he was spot on in his description of the folks at that rally. They were old, they were white and they were also angry and incoherent. One other thing. While many old white people are on Social Security and Medicare, the rubes and idiots who show up at these rallys are most certainly not the people we're trying to help. We're trying to help those who understand that the GOP doesn't give a shit about them and want to cut social security and medicare while giving more tax breaks to people who don't need them. And finally, while the older white voters tend to come out and vote, they didn't vote for Obama in 2008. They voted for McCain, so I don't have much sympathy for old people who are stupid! I think Markos is doing it exactly the way it should be done! Fuck them! If the GOP takes over with their help, they'll get exactly what they deserve. Sadly, the rest of us will be made to suffer for their stupidity and hatred. As an African American, I saw that crowd and there were more of us on the stage than in the crowd. And those on that stage were as stupid as the sea of white faces they looked out on. It looked more like a klan rally to me!
I totally agree!! and I am old, white, unemployed.....and angry, but angry at the rest of those old, white people who are obviously brain-dead because they are voting against their own best interests when they vote Rethuglican--"keep your government hands off my Medicare and Social Security!" Could they BE more stupid? I have never understood why old people switch to Rethuglicans when they get old...it should just be the rich ones.....but I think that is why the Rethugs want to abolish public education---to keep everybody stupid so they WILL vote for Rethugs, because no thinking middle class or poor white people with an ounce of brains in their heads would EVER vote Rethuglican......New Rethug motto: Keep 'em dumb and confused.
“The greatest evildoers are those who don’t remember because they have never given thought to the matter, and, without remembrance, nothing can hold them back,”
Rather ironic considering this quote from the posting right below this one:
looking for something to question or with which to disagree as I always do. I've got zip. Nada. It's all pretty much on the money.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
drivel designed to mask the passive aggressive elitism that has been bred in all white males on this continent.
“Why would anyone with a functioning brain believe this guy?”
Some guy with an eating disorder
A product of my environment.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
Keep "bringing a knife to a gun fight" and you'll keep getting your head blown off! You can still get your point across while bashing your opponet over the head with logic, humor and ridicule. Jon Stewart and Steven Colbert have mastered it and so has Markos!
To paraphrase Sean Connery in The Untouchables: You wanna know how to get the theocratic fascists? They pull a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of theirs to the morgue. *That's* the *American* way! And that's how you get the theocratic fascists. Now do you want to do that? Are you ready to do that? I'm offering you a deal. Do you want this deal?
....Or.....
Robert De Niro as Al Capone, "You can get further with a kind word and a gun than you can with just a kind word."
Election 2012: Be Educated! Be Active! Vote!
www.PhoenixJustice.com
In Texas, it's bringing a spork to a gun fight.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
You use a gun to kill it. You use a knife to clean it. You use a fork to turn it on the fire.
You use your fingers to eat it. What in tarnation is a spork?
“Why would anyone with a functioning brain believe this guy?”
Some guy with an eating disorder
Thank you for saying this. I have been reading comments at other liberal sites, and quite a few of them seem bothered by Markos's tactic. Since we have not read the book, I feel it's a bit premature to condemn his premise. If it is done intelligently, then maybe we have something new to talk about, rather that how the right has continued to influence the conversation for ordinary Americans.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grbSQ6O6kbs
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
... much the same myself. But I have to admit that in the heat of argument, the principle sometimes gets burned in the heat of the moment. I am sometimes guilty of the same mistake and wind up being unable to make my case due to my frustration with the stupidity of others. This is something that takes conscious attention during what is often an emotional discussion. It's difficult, but not impossible; we all need to work harder at it if we are going to get through some of the emotional reactions people have to issues.
I feel much he same way. I think the answer is to understand there is no arguing with them. Make the point and let it go. We should be working together to develop a vision for the future and let them wallow in their fear, separation and distrust.
Shoulda that be Myrddin, kemosobee?
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
I recently passed through Needles, CA, and stopped at a diner. On the wall was a T-shirt for sale. I think the motto is one for all of us to think about for a minute beyond the smile it brings to our face:
"When you take me on, you take on the whole trailer park!"
If everyone is related (usually the case in Kentucky).
However, each person would otherwise barricade themselves into their homes to protect their meth labs.
(too much?)
"When are we going to stop trying to tell elected officials what to do. Our job is to spend the taxpayers' money the best way we can." -- Tommy Watkins, Justice of the Peace, Crawford County, Arkansas
or is Madrak just displaying progressivism at its best?
"I love Rich Trumka, because he never minces words. And it's great to see him go after the incendiary rhetoric of Sarah Palin because, unlike most of our Democratic leaders, he has a spine and won't back down:
AFL-CIO President Richard Trumka charged Thursday that if Republican political star Sarah Palin is not more careful in her choice of words, the political movement she has helped to create will be linked with McCarthyism, the 1950s-era crusade by Sen. Joseph McCarthy to brand political enemies as communists."
“Why would anyone with a functioning brain believe this guy?”
Some guy with an eating disorder
Sarah's handlers scare me.
"When are we going to stop trying to tell elected officials what to do. Our job is to spend the taxpayers' money the best way we can." -- Tommy Watkins, Justice of the Peace, Crawford County, Arkansas
While Big Eddie was tactless... was he absolutely wrong in his description: "They (people attending Beck's rally) were old, white, angry Americans who can’t stand the fact that there’s a black guy in the White House"?
"When are we going to stop trying to tell elected officials what to do. Our job is to spend the taxpayers' money the best way we can." -- Tommy Watkins, Justice of the Peace, Crawford County, Arkansas
So I take it you disagree with Bouie on this point:
"there's a reason why the (Republican ) movement's leading voices are quasi-religious charlatans, rent-seeking celebrities, and failed ex-governors.
Progressives aren't immune to this degradation, and we can expect something similar if we succumb to temptation and emulate the right's disregard for truth and context. Yes, progressives are depressed and despondent about the future, but that's no reason for dishonesty and scaremongering, and it doesn't excuse the obscenity of comparing our political opponents to killers and terrorists. As reality-based members of the American community, we have an obligation toward the truth, even when it isn't particularly convenient."
“Why would anyone with a functioning brain believe this guy?”
Some guy with an eating disorder
Markos and other high profile bloggers are different in that their hyperbole and over-the-top mockery is crouched in the TRUTH.
The other side make shit up as a DNA reflex.
There is a difference.
...he uses big words like 'particularly' and 'delicatessen.' -- Jack
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfAb6h8rgig
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Have you ever commented on "bipartisan" sites like ABC News Politics Discussion Board?
First, you get NOWHERE with a conservative by being nice. But after a while, you realize you get NOWHERE when you're not nice.
So, it's much more fun and much more satisfying to trash them and their ignorance. And if you ever get a conservative (especially the religious types) to admit they're wrong you've done better than most.
This country is worse off because we've catered to conservatives delicate little sensibilities over the years. It's time to stop playing nice and being steamrolled by those assholes.
The key is to use truthful framing--the ability to communicate your ideas using the narratives and idioms already in our heads. The frames in our heads are the cognitive structures we think with.
So, isn’t framing just another word for manipulation? No. Framing is a tool that can be used for either good or bad. Through lies and deception, Republicans use framing to distort people’s perceptions of reality away from the truth.
As progressives, we can use framing and facts to bring our fellow citizens’ perception of reality closer to the truth. That is the difference between false framing and truthful framing.
We have two ways to combat a conservative frame:
1) Come up with an opposing, progressive frame to compete with it. When frames compete, only one of them can win inside your head. So it needs to be strong, impactful and based on the facts.
Alan Grayson - Counters the Republican "socialized medicine" frame by acknowledging the fact that 44,000 die each year because they can't get health insurance, and frames what Republican opposition really means for Americans:
http://www.namesofthedead.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-usmvYOPfco
2) Add to the frame to either change its meaning OR show how absurd it is by extending it to its natural extreme (e.g. use satire).
Drew Westen - Adding to "Support the Troops" Framing
http://fora.tv/2007/11/07/Deceiving_Image_The...
Lewis Black - Adding to Glenn Beck's Nazi False Framing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtlOBa6qa3o
- Tom
(broken link above)
Lewis Black - Adding to Glenn Beck's Nazi False Framing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1s4fj-5zlk
And also worked for a time for the Chicago Tribune.
http://www.dailykos.com/special/about2#bio
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