Latest Iraq NIE Warns Of New Wave Of Violence
By Steve Hynd Thursday Oct 09, 2008 3:40pm
McClatchy reports that the new National Intelligence Estimate on Iraq is almost complete and that it " warns that unresolved ethnic and sectarian tensions in Iraq could unleash a new wave of violence, potentially reversing the major security and political gains achieved over the last year," directly contradicting John McCain's claims in Tuesday's debate that the Surge has been a success and victory has been attained.
That's not a major surprise to anyone who follows events in Iraq without neocon rose-tinted glasses. Deep conflicts between the central government and Kurdish region, Awakening groups and Sadrists have all been put on a knife-edge by expectations for the upcoming provincial elections, which have been gerrymandered to keep the existing incumbents in the Green Zone in power. The Turks are looking down a gunbarrel at the Kurds and the Awakening is looking at losing its source of income - being paid not to be insurgents - while even the Green Zone elites are falling out among themselves over Maliki's newfound Napoleon complex. The chances of Iraq lasting another year without another significant outbreak of violence are small to none.
All of those sources of conflict are outlined in the draft NIE, according to more than "a half-dozen officials" who spoke to McClatchy on condition of anonymity because NIE's are very restricted circulation documents.
The NIE findings parallel a Defense Department assessment last month that warned that despite "promising developments, security gains in Iraq remain fragile. A number of issues have the potential to upset progress.",
Trouble spots include whether the former Sunni insurgents, also known as the Sons of Iraq, find permanent employment; provincial elections scheduled for January; Kirkuk's status; the fate of internally displaced people and returning refugees; and "malign Iranian influence," the unclassified Pentagon report said.
The intelligence agencies' estimate also raises worries about what would happen if Sadr, the anti-U.S. cleric, attempts to reassert himself, according to senior intelligence officials familiar with its contents.
General Petraeus, who is the focus of an unholy amount of revered hype by John McCain, says the the situation is "fragile" and "reversible" and says he will never declare victory there. Not that even his Saint's words of caution have stopped Mccain doing so loudly and often, however. But Petraeus, in a talk to the neocon Heritage Foundation today, ruffled feathers by repeatedly seeming to back Obama's foreign policy prescriptions over McCain's.
Unbidden, Petraeus discussed whether his strategy in Iraq — protecting the population while cleaving apart the insurgency through reconciliation efforts to crush the remaining hard-core enemies — could also work in Afghanistan. The question has particular salience as Petraeus takes over U.S. Central Command, which will put him at the helm of all U.S. troops in the Middle East and South Asia, thereby giving him a large role in the Afghanistan war.
“Some of the concepts used in Iraq are transplantable [to Afghanistan] while others perhaps are not,” he said. “Every situation is unique.”
Petraeus pointed to efforts by Hamid Karzai’s government to negotiate a deal with the Taliban that would potentially bring some Taliban members back to power, saying that if they are “willing to reconcile,” it would be “a positive step.”
In saying that, Petraeus implicitly allied with U.S. Army Gen. David McKiernan, the U.S. commander in Afghanistan. Last week, McKiernan rejected the idea of replicating the blend of counterinsurgency strategy employed in Iraq. “The word that I don’t use in Afghanistan is the word ’surge,’” McKiernan said, opting against recruiting Pashtun tribal fighters to supplement Afghan security forces against Al Qaeda and the Taliban. “There are countless other differences between Iraq and Afghanistan,” he added.
... Petraeus also came out unambiguously in his talk at Heritage for opening communications with America’s adversaries, a position McCain is attacking Obama for endorsing. Citing his Iraq experience, Petraeus said, “You have to talk to enemies.” He added that it was necessary to have a particular goal for discussion and to perform advance work to understand the motivations of his interlocutors.
And, as McClatchy notes, whether the news is good or bad and no matter what the commanders might have to say about it, Republicans will always find an excuse to stay just a little bit longer.
The findings seem to cast doubts on McCain's frequent assertions that the United States is "on a path to victory" in Iraq by underscoring the deep uncertainties of the situation despite the 30,000-strong U.S. troop surge for which he was the leading congressional advocate.
But McCain could also use the findings to try to strengthen his argument for keeping U.S. troops in Iraq until conditions stabilize.
It's always a reason to stay. We've had countless variations on "the surge is working; we should stay until we've done the job," or "even if we can't maintain the surge, we're making progress, so we should stay" or "the Surge hasn't done what we thought it would but we can't leave - there will be a bloodbath when we leave" already. How about this instead? The Surge didn't do what it was supposed to, it never will because the irreconcilable faction fights behind the violence are beyond U.S. control, but it's the Iraqis country and they get to break it if they want to or fix it if they wish - their choice.
Not that we'll get a chance for that debate based upon this NIE, like the Afghanistan NIE which was comparably "grim" it will be buried, with not even the summary conclusions released to the public.
Crossposted from Newshoggers









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"Senator Obama refuses to admit that the surge is working"
Yes, the surge troops are all working and drawing a paycheck.
If the surged has worked;
let's bring our soldiers home immediately!
Surge,
Get off the Oxycontin and prove that the Surge is working. Any proof will do. Just saying that 'the Surge is working' does not make it so although, this is the Right's MO for justifying anything including, the FAILED war in Iraq. Say it often enough, loud enough and it must be true. However, the reality is that we have lost the Iraq War and fulfilled OBL's goal of bankrupting our country. No amount of Wingnut rhetoric will change this inconvenient truth.
Let's look at FACTS ummm'K? Nine US Troops were killed last week which is pretty much in line with the 6 to 12 soldiers we have lost each week, on average, since the war's inception. 4,180 are now dead. Our Troops are hunkered down behind blast proof walls rarely venturing out to face the various tribal groups of Freedom Fighters. Yes, that is correct FREEDOM FIGHTERS and not insurgents. You come to my house uninvited and I'll cap a .40 in your ass, US uniform or ECKO wear, don't matter. Same for Iraqi's or anyone defending their home against criminal aggression. The US is paying off the Sunni's to chill and the ethnic cleansing has so throughly cleared native combatants from same colors turf that the violence has naturally and as expected subsided.
You can have the Surge ongoing for the next 100 years in Iraq and we'll be talking the same smack.
The United States has LOST the Iraq War. Get over it and let's move on before we sink any more money down this rat hole.
WIN or LOSE is just semantics. The rationale for going to Baghdad in the first place was accomplished years ago – Sadaam is gone and there never were any WMDs. What is there to Win? What is there to Lose? It’s meaningless.
What’s not meaningless is the cost of lives, the cost of funds, the cost of integrity… and the cost of oil. We get none of this back by declaring victory.
No extra 40,000 or so troops would have changed Iraq's dynamics. Everything that is bubbling just below the surface has always been there and always will be no matter what McCain says. The Shia and Kurds will not forget what the U.S. backed Saddam Hussein and his Sunni faction did to them. Nor will the Sunnis or Kurds forget that the Shia are largely backed by Iran. Turkey sure as Hell is not going to forget about the Kurdish PKK and so on. That surge is an illusion and nothing more.
If anyone cares to look at Afghanistan something else is happening there. I'd love to see how McCain is going to spin this one. When a vastly superior force is forced to reconcile with the lesser enemy you know you have lost. We saw this same thing occur in Iraq with Al Sadr and his militia.
Pentagon sees reconciliation with Taliban, not Qaeda
BUDAPEST (Reuters) - The United States would be prepared to reconcile with the Taliban if the Afghan government pursued talks to end the war, U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates said on Thursday.
http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTR...
The Western World is going bankrupt and can longer afford its wars of colonial conquest.
Any questions?
don't tell the plain supporters
Also, Pakistan is no longer permitting ground forces or air-support across their borders. They've been repelled 3-4 times recently. Our illegal incursion into the ME in order to bring Freedom is unraveling.
...and just where is Cheney?
where are our fake terror alerts? I look forward to them about now.
I can't wait until they kill the "NUMBER TWO-MAN" again... and again... and again... and again... for the 86th... no 87th time.
Really. I'm afraid that I won't know how afraid to be unless the FatherLand Security shows me a colored light.
Oh Bush, why hath thou forsaken me?!?
gosh... so judge mental. We were told it could take between "a few dead enders" and "why not a hundred"
patience... patients?
LNS
This has been a horrible week for Johnny boy, hasn't it? Here he lost his edge on national security for his violence inducing rallies on Monday and Tuesday and now this new NIE report on "how well things are going in Iraq" surfaces. And he thought his numbers looked piss-poor last week? He ain't seen nothing yet.
kinda OT: Cindy mcCain interview in Marie Claire. it is ...incrediable. I hope all those in armed forces, have been in armed forces hears this drivel. http://thinkprogress.org/2008/10/09/cindy-dra...
What I find astounding is how this woman can get out there and lie through her teeth.
Fact: Barack Obama voted down the bill because it failed to have a deadline - something which the majority of americans were fighting for, BTW.
Fact: John McCain voted down the next bill because it DID have a deadline.
Fact: They both voted No to the troops. How does Obama's "no" count any more than McCain's "no" vote?
This woman's brain is fried from the pharmacological cocktail she takes every day. It's also taking it's toll on her physically - she looks like a human skeleton.
Hiding behind grasshopper shades so people can't see how stewed she is on her drug cocktail maybe?
Since replacing Wolf Blitzer with the lockstepping Nazi skinhead John Roberts, you're losing viewers by the gazillions.
You'd better check your Neilson ratings because I think you're hitting the skids in putting this sicko out there to show us nothing but his obvious biasted views.
John Roberts is repulsive and an embarrassment to the american people with his propaganda megaphone. He did it for Bush and now he's doing it for McCain.
Check your Nielsons and you will see how much your station is tanking this week.
Then check with some of your sponsors to see how the american boycott of their goods and services is working for them, too, while you're at it.
absolutely.
As if the AIPAC mouthpiece Wolf Blitzer wasn't bad enough.
Roberts isn't just a talking head, he's a bubble head. He started out as a veejay on Muchmusic (like MTV) in Canada.
It worked damnit....and that one won't admit it!!!
if you don't report the continual ongoing violence, then I guess all the 'other' violence is new!
http://www.iraqslogger.com
Have a look for yourself!
The thing about McCain, Lieberman and Bush is they will never be able to solve the war because they do not understand it and McSame is a war monger who still wants revenge for Viet Nam. They do not understand the players. Lieberman says Al Qaeda would be in control of Iraq today? That is just STUPID!!! The Iraqis will kick their sorry butts out (no matter what McCain and his best buddy forever thinks) in a matter of hours after the U.S. leaves. The Iraqis hate Al Qaeda as much as they hate the U.S. for invading. You can bet your bottom $ that no Iraqi will be told what to do by some Al Qaeda nut who all of Iraq hate. McCain (and it looks like Lieberman as well) does not even know who Al Qaeda is. Obviously the same is true with Bush. All you will see of Al Qaeda is the dust they kick up as they run for Afghanistan. Iraq will kick Al Qaeda out just like they will do to the Iranians, "Thanks for the help. Now get the hell out." They don’t get the dynamics of country being invaded by foreign powers. What would happen if the U.S. pulled out of Iraq immediately? What would happen next? This is what would happen - The Shia tell Iran "Thanks for the help, now leave. Get out of our country." That is the part the neocon war mongers can't seem to understand. Everybody says that Iran will take over Iraq. Or they will have so much influence that Iraq will essentially become part of Iran. Well that will NOT happen. Iraq is Iraq. They don't want to be told what to do by Iran. Just like they don’t want to be told what to do by the U.S. Remember when Saddam invaded Kuwait, Saudi Arabia let the U.S. stage in their country to throw Saddam out of Kuwait. And Egypt helped the coalition in that war. Both those countries are Sunni. Saddam was Sunni. In fact Egypt harbored an exiled Saddam many years ago but Egypt helped throw Saddam out of Kuwait. Being from the same sect did not help Saddam. Saddam didn't listen to Saudi Arabia when it came to Kuwait and Saudi Arabia is Sunni like Saddam. Saudi Arabia let the coalition stage in Saudi Arabia to attack Saddam, a Sunni. Why would Iraq listen to any other country, i.e. Iran or Syria or anybody else? Why would they let Iran tell them what to do? So you see that just because part of Iraq and Iran are the same sect you cannot assume that Iraqi Shia will let Iranian Shia tell them what to do. The Iraqis are only letting Iran help them because Iraq wants the U.S. out! As far as the Kurds go they have it figured out. They're having BBQ on Saturday nights (probably). And the Sunni? They will have to figure out how to have their own area. Joe Bidden knows how this will work out. Most of them have left the country anyway. It will work out without us. The neocon war profiteers don't get it or they want this war to continue for financial reasons. You know this. I know this. 82% of the U.S. knows this. Getting out is the dilemma. The Republicans think that staying in is the dilemma. I'm sure the military can figure out how the hell to leave. They don't have to worry about all the junk they brought with them. Most of it is trash at this time anyway. It's worn out. Used up. Just get on a plane and leave. Remember Iraq was better off with Saddam. I've said it many times. Nobody wanted to say it at the time but it is true. Iraq will have to sell their oil to somebody just like Venezuela. So you see there is no problem. pack up and leave. Let's pack it up and leave tomorrow. You are either with me or... um... ah... won't get fooled again.
I was a bit disappointed that Biden was chosen as VP. He's too smart for that position, and I was hoping for Sec. of State.
A surge by definition is a brief period of time. Can a brief period of time really be exptected to change anything over the long haul?
And of course that "surge" has continued long enough to really be considered a deployment.
)O(
Great post.
We have built a fantasy of a reduction in violence, similar to building a dam out of sand. The very foundation of what we are building erodes daily, and all it will take is one storm to wash away this veneer of the surge actually working.
Iraq is a tinderbox, there is nothing that the average Iraqi expects from American troops other than barbed wire, blast fences and the paying of vigilante groups to not kill Americans and work for the interests of the U.S., but these people ALL have one unifying theme: They all hate us, as they know their lives have been plunged into an inferno of violence ever since we invaded this nation for all the wrong reasons.
May these Iraqi's all live long enough to forgive us.
As much as we did to convince them otherwise, I don’t think the Vietnamese *hated* us. They wanted us out of their country (just like the French before us). Likewise, the Muslim community in the ME. Sectarian factions aside, the common sentiment is that we don’t belong there – leave. I think the best we can hope for in the future is a relationship like that which we have with Vietnam today.
Was there ever any doubt? Who actually thought it was under control?
The "surge" largely consisted of giving money and weapons to the very same folks who were targeting U.S. troops just six months earlier. This was done to get their cooperation. Did anybody really think this would work?
The Surge has basically been Phase Two in arming both sides for a gruesome civil war. Iraq is further from peace and stability than ever. It's a time bomb just waiting to go off.
Will not be a dessert.
We should not be celebrating Iraq in any way shape or form, whether it reflects badly on McCain or not.
The reduction in violence has largely been due to the partitioning of the country by religion, similar to the way Palestine has been partitioned from Israel. There is also a sense of impending change with the election only a month away, and the idea that the US *may* soon be withdrawing (to some extent, at least) is also a factor. There have been some positive signs but they are few and far between. The size and power of the forces competing for power is waiting for the vacuum of a post-US occupation.
Once the election is resolved and the course of US policy is made clear, I believe there will be a massive "civil" war between Sunni and Shiite, with the support of both Iran and Saudi Arabia. Any US soldier is stationed in Iraq when this happens will see the face of the apocalypse. How this will effect global oil supplies, Israel, the unbalance of power in the Middle East, etc. is anybody's guess.
Check out http://IdeaBeats.org for a good collection of audio regarding the Iraq War (MP3).
I notice from the publicly disclosed points of the NIS the major factor leading to violence in Iraq, the misery of the people since and during the continuing occupation by foreign invaders.
I have never been able to accept that any relativedownturns in fighting attributed to the so-called surge were anything more than a lull, while the fighting factions rearms, resupply, and identify who is on whose side. Just a round of quiet in between the next bit of score-settling.
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