Are Republicans killing the stock market with their apocalyptic hysteria?
By David Neiwert Saturday Mar 07, 2009 11:30am
The right's second-favorite new talking point -- right behind "Leave Rush Aloooooone!" -- is the claim that the ongoing downward spiral of the stock market is now President Obama's fault.
It's utter nonsense, of course. Indeed, a far more plausible explanation for the continuing lousy psychology of the stock market is that all the hysterical fearmongering, marked by absurd charges that we're descending into "socialism," coming from the mouths of Republicans and various right-wing talkers (most prominently Limbaugh) has created a blanket of groundless fear and suspicion around Obama's recovery program that is keeping the market in freefall.
It's been everywhere on cable TV: Larry Kudlow, Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly, Glenn Beck, Charles Krauthammer, Lou Dobbs, even the morning talking heads at MSNBC -- they've all been pitching the concept that this is an "Obama Bear Market" and that his "bad-mouthing" the economy to get his stimulus bill passed -- and more importantly, the shocking "socialism" of the Obama program -- is the reason the market continues its slide.
Probably the apotheosis of this was Michael Boskin's piece in the Wall Street Journal declaring that "Obama's radicalism" is tanking the markets.
That's a fine how-do-you-do: Boskin was a member of George W. Bush's Council of Economic Advisers. In other words: One of the architects of the current economic debacle is already trying to blame it on the man upon whom the job of cleaning it all up has descended, less than two months into his tenure.
There's no chutzpah like right-wing chutzpah.
As Robert Reich explained at Salon:
The argument that Obama is somehow responsible for the collapse of Wall Street is absurd. First, every major policy that led to this collapse occurred under George W.'s watch (or, more accurately, his failure to watch). The housing and financial bubbles were created under Bush and exploded under Bush. The stock market began to collapse under Bush.
Second, it's inevitable that stocks, led by the bloated financial sector, would lose their remaining hot air as the new administration begins "stress-testing" the big banks, many of which are technically insolvent. After all, their share prices were built on a tissue of lies and dreams. Other sectors whose values were similarly distorted and distended by years of financial deception and regulatory disregard, such as housing and insurance, will also have to return to the real world before they can recover. Which could mean more stock losses.
Indeed, contrary to any radicalism, even David Brooks can see that Obama's economic program is pragmatic and centrist:
They see themselves as pragmatists who inherited a government and an economy that have been thrown out of whack. They’re not engaged in an ideological project to overturn the Reagan Revolution, a fight that was over long ago. They’re trying to restore balance: nurture an economy so that productivity gains are shared by the middle class and correct the irresponsible habits that developed during the Bush era.
The budget, they continue, isn’t some grand transformation of America. It raises taxes on energy and offsets them with tax cuts for the middle class. It raises taxes on the rich to a level slightly above where they were in the Clinton years and then uses the money as a down payment on health care reform. That’s what the budget does. It’s not the Russian Revolution.
Second, they argue, the Obama administration will not usher in an era of big government. Federal spending over the last generation has been about 20 percent of G.D.P. This year, it has surged to about 27 percent. But they aim to bring spending down to 22 percent of G.D.P. in a few years. And most of the increase, they insist, is caused by the aging of the population and the rise of mandatory entitlement spending. It’s not caused by big increases in the welfare state.
What Republicans can't really handle, of course, is confronting the reality that it was their misbegotten approach to the economy -- mass deregulation, complete "free markets," and tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts -- that was responsible for creating this mess.
So what we're actually seeing is the Right busily constructing its own fresh new wing of Planet Wingnuttia, the alternative reality they're coming to inhabit: Liberals conspired to cause the housing crisis, and therefore caused the economic collapse. Then Obama started the stock-market slide even before he was elected, and now his radical socialism is driving the market into the sub-1000 region.
Hoo boy. Get ready to deal with this nonsense for the next four years. And particularly its consequences: Wall Streeters have always shown a propensity for gullibility when it comes to right-wing talking points, and the continuing drop in the markets almost certainly reflects that.
We got a glimpse of the kind of craziness the right is flinging up on the wall in its flight from reality earlier this week from J.D. Hayworth:
Hayward: No, I'll tell you what was bad. The sneak attack on our economy, the dress rehearsal of Indy bank, when Chuck Schumer helped get that started and the guy in the background George Soros manipulating all the currency.Matthews: What?
Hayward: You want to keep that going?
Matthews: You mean the economic situation we faced right now...JD you can talk fast but I don't know what you're talking about.
This was a conspiracy theory worthy of the Protocols of the Seven Elders of Zion. Which kind of makes sense, considering that Hayworth, before he went down flaming in the 2006 election, was out there touting Henry Ford-style "Americanism":
That would be the Henry Ford who in 1920 began publishing The International Jew -- one of the most infamous anti-Semitic screeds in history. This text first raised to national prominence the notorious Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion hoax -- and indeed may have been responsible for its subsequent wide distribution in Hitler's Germany as well.
Speaking of Hitler, here's what he had to say about the speculation in 1923 that Ford might run for president:
I wish I could send some of my shock troops to Chicago and other big American cities to help in the elections ... We look to Heinrich Ford as the leader of the growing fascist movement in America ... We have just had his anti-Jewish articles translated and published. The book is being circulated in millions throughout Germany."
...But Ford wasn't the only one out there thumping the drum for "Americanism." Indeed, as I've detailed previously, one of the main slogans of the Ku Klux Klan then (and later) was that its program was all about "pure Americanism" or "100 percent Americanism." (The same was true of William Dudley Pelley's openly fascist Silver Shirts organization.) One of its best-known pamphlets was entitled "The Klan's Fight for Americanism," which
... makes no apologies for its members' attempts to impose their views upon "liberals," immigrants, Catholics, Jews, or peoples of color. Instead it sounds a clarion call for the Klan's "progressive conservatism" and celebrates its influence in American public life.
Indeed, the path of right-wing populism is clearly where the current rhetoric is taking us. As Robert Reich observes in his Salon piece:
Finally, none of the financial wizards who are now charging Obama with leading America into the abyss have offered an alternative plan for getting us out of the mess that, not incidentally, many of these same wizards happily led us into. For years, the Wall Street Journal editorial page and the financial gurus of cable news cheered as Wall Street leveraged its way into oblivion.
This bizarre charge wouldn't be worth mentioning were it not a market test for a more intense attack from Wall Street and Republican media outlets next year as the nation moves into the gravitational range of the 2010 midterm elections. Republicans have made no secret of their wish to blame Obama for the bad economy, and to stir up as much populist rage against his so-called socialist tendencies as politically possible. History shows how effective demagogic ravings can be when a public is stressed economically. Make no mistake: Angry right-wing populism lurks just below the surface of the terrible American economy, ready to be launched not only at Obama but also at liberals, intellectuals, gays, blacks, Jews, the mainstream media, coastal elites, crypto socialists, and any other potential target of paranoid opportunity.
Guess it's time for us all to head for our Doom Bunkers. Because once they have their new wing of Planet Wingnuttia all decked out and furnished with specially collected talking points, there's never any talking them out.
We just can hope that Wall Street isn't taking up a room there.
Login or Register to post comments.
because he is fricken azz munch of Bush policy. But Peter Schiff is dead on, people are going to have to learn this the hard way. I'm afraid. Nikolai Dmyitriyevich Kondratieff was correct, succeeding generations forget the lessons of past generations every 70 to 100 years.
[Video] Peter Schiff On US Dollar Bubble
This is a very informative 5 minute video
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ff1_1236285295
It is same thing Peter Schiff says over and over.
That is not to say that the idea that our having borrowed too much is incorrect.
But when is he going to indict the Fat Cats and their Crony Capitalism?
Read this and get back to me
Robert Weissman - Democracy Now: Sold Out - How Wall Street and Washington Betrayed America
A comprehensive (if not exhaustive) report here.
This is a 231 page PDF you should be able to save it to your hard drive.
---
OBTW - Milton Friedman was attacking Keynes with success in the 70s, 40 years later.
Today 40 years later we are reaping what he sewed. Catastrophe. Ronald Reagan et al.
Read Kevin Phillips Bad Money.
In the video I linked Schiff blames the lenders that didn't care, he says it's the flippers who are causing these bubbles, he blames the FED for its insane dollar printing, he blames the world’s governments for their bad responses, when he refers to our economy as a “phony economy” he is talking about Wall Street’s unproductive corruption, bunch of paper flippers they are.
He is also saying the current stimulus solution is the wrong solution and details why it’s wrong better than people who are for it. Robert Kiyosaki talks about the corruption as well in his new free online book “The Conspiracy Of The Rich”
http://www.conspiracyoftherich.com/
He throws both political parties for the last 30 years under the bus for catering to the corrupt because at the end of the day the rich use politicians to get what they want. Both Republicans and Democrats are guilty as sin for doing this. Bush 41 defended these slobs in the Gulf war, Clinton’s Rubin, Summers, and Geithner aided in the formation of Citigroup by helping to repeal the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933 that lead to this very crash! Bush 43 gave us the Iraq war to defend them too, remember Bush’s pro-war speech about “to preserve our way of life”, who’s life? Why those he called his base and we call the elite. Both party's ushered in deregulation with the “The Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000” passing it with a near-unanimous House vote (377 to 4)
Obama is trying to save the same slobs again with Rubin, Summers, and Geithner at the helm, the ones who helped to create the environment that lead to the collapse are now entrusted to fix it!? Wow a co-inky-dink! Right now the leviathans are fighting for control, no video, no exposure; no news is going to change that course. So for people like you and me the question is do we want to be its victim? Personally I will invest to help my family rather than get between the two, oh I'll bitch about them online and write my representatives hoping change is coming, but I’m investing where the money is going, not leaving.
The bailout both parties voted yes for, that was so the elite slobs could save themselves.
It is important to distinguish between the so called 'Stimulus' with the 'Bailouts'.
The 'Stimulus' is John Maynard Keynes which I am for. There are things that we should have been doing all along but were too busy enriching the war profiteers. We have had this discussion before.
The 'Bailouts' are Crony Capitalism which I am completely against. On that count Washington is bought and paid for by Wall Street.
Peter Schiff is an arch Capitalists.
He is the enemy of the working class.
Instead of me just rebutting let me simply ask why are you for it?
None of the Keynesian backers such as Krugman or Roubini have even asked some of the most basic questions such as my now very tired points here.
At best they state it's a problem but for the most part don't mention them. Why should I be for Keynesian economics?
For a start we could cut the 'Defense Budget', Homeland Security, CIA and the 'War' on
DrugsMinorities.Because I am for Government spending that does positive things doe not mean I am for any of the other.
I am not denying that we have a huge mess.
I recommend Kevin Phillips Bad Money, he does not paint a rosy scenario.
I guess that is what drives me nuts about this stimulus, everyone likes the idea of all this investment and no one is is asking where the money is going to come from? We as a nation are insolvent, we have no money, we're borrowing it, the very action that got us into this mess. People are assuming countries like China will just put up with it.
Why are the Keynesian's not bothered by this? You see every dollar printed today is a debt.
Look what China's economists are favoring
http://www.chinastakes.com/story.aspx?id=1030
if the rich and corporations paid their fair share, we would need to resort to such levels of debt.
Where are we going to get the money?
How are we going to even begin to pay down a $15,000,000,000,000 and growing national debt?
Will our ROI realized in 10 to 20 years do enough to avert certain fiscal catastrophe?
How will we not default on our national debt?
How is our debased dollar going to recover?
How long will China keep on loaning us money they know we can't repay?
Finally, we need to get the money back that was stolen from this system. Economics is a zero sum game. There is no wealth lost because of a recession; it is only concentrated. For every dollar lost when the housing bubble burst, a dollar was made by those who got out before hand.
We may not know where every particular dollar ended up, but we do know which direction it went - up.
Time for a wealth tax.
Credit=Debt, it’s foolish when you are $15 trillion in the hole and facing $60 to $100 trillion in the near future. We are the largest debtor nation in the world we are not going to pay down $15 trillion. The GDP is a bad example because it’s a measure of destruction not wealth as I detail here GDP = GROSSLY PADDED DATA.
The Golden Gate Bridge has paid for itself? For decades it’s been owned and run by a private company, its tolls are insanely high compared to the Oakland Bay Bridge! Some capitalist extortionist trolls are running that scheme. While it’s a great work and helps people save time from driving around the bay (I can't say it saves money), it does little for exports (except make for a nice backdrop as ships pass under it) or production which is exactly what we need today. You say “Finally, we need to get the money back that was stolen from this system.” Uhm OK good luck with that.
But I can't get it to work.
Here is is
GDP = GROSSLY PADDED DATA.
http://crooksandliars.com/jon-perr/obamas-sum...
must have screwed up my anchor tag
Wealth can appear and disappear without money or assets changing hands.
If a stock plummets from $100 to $1 a share, certainly some people made money on the way up and the way down, but it doesn't mean every share actually sold for $100 at one time. The person or institution who bought a million shares at $50 would have seen both $50 million in wealth created and $99 million in wealth lost without selling a single share.
Exactly opposite of the person who bought a million shares at $50 is the person who sold those million shares.
It's mathematics, and it works out to zero.
Also, until you've bought or sold, you haven't made or lost anything.
all those people still holding onto shares of GM and Citibank will be glad to hear they haven't lost anything yet, or that nobody's 401K has really taken a hit if they haven't started tapping it. So I guess no one is really "wealthy" until they turn their assets into "real" money - thanks for clearing that up.
and some people have made huge money on the trip down shorting the hell out of these stocks. Another thing to consider in the posts above is the corruption of fiat currency has only obscured the difference between price and value.
The only way to know what something is worth now is to compare the prices between different asset classes. For example when the Dow was at its peak of 14,000 in 2007 it looked like an all time high in terms of dollars but only in terms of dollars! If you took one share of the Dow and compared it against other asset classes you could see it had fallen in terms of value.
Since 1999 the Dow has been crashing when compared against the other asset classes such as Oil, industrial metals, agricultures, precious metals, and commodities. Take oil in 1999 you could sell one share of the Dow and buy 800 barrels of oil, the Dow has fallen almost 90% measured against oil since then, before the recent free fall you could sell one share and buy roughly 100 barrels of oil. The dollar itself is a debt to the US tax payer we pay interest on.
Why should we pay interest on the very currency we use? That was not the founding fathers intentions.
I'm saying that for every dollar lost a dollar is made.
"Finally, we need to get the money back that was stolen from this system. Economics is a zero sum game. There is no wealth lost because of a recession; it is only concentrated. For every dollar lost when the housing bubble burst, a dollar was made by those who got out before hand."
This view of economics has been so thoroughly discredited that it's almost bizarre that there are still people out there who believe it. I suggest, sir, that you take an introduction to economics course.
.
fiver: The next comment you made was deleted because it was connected to the spammers comment. We have been getting bombarded with spammers lately. When you see a comment like that, please use the flag option. Thank You. SiteMonitor}
Keynes is a fraud, we are living the Keynesian economy now and the dollar is becoming worthless. Do you wonder why it takes like 10 jobs to make a living, well thats money printing Keynesianism.
Peter schiff should be treasury secretary...not the crook thats there now.
... the less they have to pay when they buy back in.
This mess was not an accident.
and then they're in a great position to profit from the depressed market. That's what they're up to. They'll have theirs and they'll profit on the misfortune and losses of others. Typical.
than against it?
I take it the They that's lowering the market so They can buy it up cheap is not the same They that took a bath when the rug was pulled out from the speculative economy They had been profiting from. So which They are we discussing? The Buildebergers? The Freemasons? The Tri-Lateral Commission? HYDRA?
Please elaborate
... and Adolph Hitler have to do with this?
You asked for it fiver.
here is Hitler on today's real estate bubble.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNmcf4Y3lGM
That was hysterical. Thanks.
Pretty clever huh? There is a series of at least 5 different topics, all with the same clip from the movie "Downfall" (very memorable flick if you haven't seen it)
Youtube has been great for opening up the field of short, original comedy pieces. If you like Isabella Rosselini (I haven't met anyone who doesn't) you should check out her original series of shorts called Green Porn.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqibGriuALM
That was hilarious :-D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1JmUEMQ6zY&fe...
and here's adolf hitler on Barack Obama
From FDR's first inaugural address here.
Excerpt:
Too bad the Democrats have also for the most part forgotten the lessons.
Robert Weissman - Democracy Now: Sold Out - How Wall Street and Washington Betrayed America
A comprehensive (if not exhaustive) report here.
If it's not Clinton's fault it has to be Obama's right? who am I forgetting?
Or it's Barney Frank and nancy Pelosi's fault - after all everything was just peachy kean until they worked their evil mojo on the economy, forcing banks to leverage their assets buying up speculative investment instruments in order to have enough money to fund the mortgages of minorities at 0% down, leaving them vulnerable to the manipulations of an evil crypto-Marxist cabal run by George Soros.
Praise the Lord!
It couldn't be the loss of 5 million jobs under repugnant leadership Right!
It will be like this for the next 7 years. The Republicans are outraged and disgusted to see a black man in power who will not grab his ankles and say 'yessa massa' at their every whim like their House Negro Michael Steele does.
That you aren't shamed straight out of this forum speaks volumes about the kind of people who post here.
these are opportunistic times to voice your opinion(s) and support the version(s) you want to believe. the republicans/talking HEADs want to dilute the Obama inheritance message. this financial and economic downturn has minimal to NOTHing to do with Obama. wallStreet has a lot do with this. this is propaganda for the HATERs. darwinian capitalism has taken down too many. there is a lot of collateral
damage and they want to blame it on Government. much of this noise is preparation to fight "socialized"
healthCare. get ready to rumble.
Yes.
Wasn't that the Plan all along??
Yes
What Republicans can't really handle, of course, is reality.
Actually this is the only portions that are honest on fox. The rest of it is garbage and where were they on Bush? They never let Peter Schiff on as much as they do now. They used to make fun of him and he was the only one with a brain on most of their programs.
Hannity has spewed the same contradictory Republicans=good, Democrats=bad forever. I have yet to see a poll or any reading of substance(the whore media doesn't count) that would suggest that the public is buying any of his redundant, Obama has already failed, partisan alarmist bullshit.
Republicans hate this country, especially now that they can't control it.
Our stupid ad hoc culture of "Experts"
Morons.
but why does it always seem that Rethugs point their fingers at the camera, and thus us?
self-deception is VERY pwerful. it's used by some to survive. some of the (R) demographics will be deceived about the REAL/factual reasons/variables behind the financial crisis and subsequent economic downturn. the (R) will continue the negative linguistic chatter. this will work for some. it will also help to re-establish the HATE identity they love/cherish. you know, the i hate you because your NOT like me. persoanlly, i believe it's very important to understand this crisis and have "talking points" to debate. it's very effective when talking to black and white thinkers. i do it often with a smile on my face as i disarm republicans. it puts holes in their self-deception persona mechanism. these people will lie to survive at least what they believe needs to be said to continue the survival of their culture brand.
Used by religionists for millennium.
I do hope we grow tired of that robe.
Right-wing Republicans whom support free trade are directly responsible for jobs leaving the United States. John McCain is a free trader & is Mitch McConnell. Even Rushbo himself believes in free trade capitalism and by extension jobs from America over to China and India. Sorry, right-wingers, you can't have it both ways. Right-wingers are also true-red communist, globalists. Jobs moved down south from the north to bust unions, before moving overseas. Thank GOP President Nixon for opening up China. It surely has NOT helped American workers!
Right-wingers wanted war on Iraq & kept those finances out of the annual budgets. The war supplementals have made the deficit even larger. Thanks to the illogic of right-wing Republicans, placing the Iraq war on credit, weakened America's international credit rating. From Reagan-to-Gingrich-to Bush, America's balance-of-payments in international trade have gone downhill.
As for the U.S. Constitution--well, anyone with half a brain knows that at the start of the country known as America, only the oligarchs and the few benefited from that document. The U.S. Constitution excluded blacks, women, and Native Americans-Indians from taking part in the so-called "Great Experiment," of the USA. That pesky Electoral College was the creation of the oligarchs to make sure their people always got in. I do not have such an idealistic view of this so-called "Great American Constitution," realizing that laws are created by the elites, for the elites, and to protect the elites. Karl Rove's refusal to answer congressional subpoenas is evidence of this point. Limbaugh's ability to escape real American justice for his crimes of drug trafficking because of his oligarchic connections with Bush crime family & Jeb Bush who told prosecutors to lay off Limbaugh is more proof of the sham known as the U.S. Justice system, an extension of the constitution. I can understand why the law-breaking, drug-addled gasbag, Rush Limbaugh loves the U.S. Constitution, because he crapped all over the laws of America that others follow, but, is not in prison. Rush belongs in prison right now for drug trafficking. There are right now, people in prison doing twenty years hard time for the exact same thing that Limbaugh has never even been honest about.
Anyone who sucks-up to the thug-criminal Limbaugh and ignores his drug trafficking crimes, are nothing but hypocrites when it comes to U.S. criminal laws. Before anyone forgives Rush for being a criminal, Limbaugh must first do the time for his Oxycontin shopping crimes.
Yeah, you right-wing hypocrites are "law-abiding citizens" until people like Bush, Cheney, and Rushbo, break the law. Then you right-wingers come up with all the great excuses of the true sophists you are. I have never heard greater sophistry than the lame "reasoning" heard by right-wing buffoonery.
There is "No Hope" for Mr. Limbaugh because he is a very pathetic man & just as pathetic as those right-wing buffoons whom justify him!
Right-wingers have been the biggest supporters of this failed capitalistic system. The notion that the market works itself out is the biggest right wing fantasy ever heard. The Republicans were the ones who wanted to Deregulate everything!
The right-wing have nothing to offer. They had do-nothing policies in the Bush years where they passed everything Bush asked for and now are trying to revise those actions they took from 2001-till Bush left in January 2009. The Republicans lie about their outrage over the Bush administration policies they supported 100% of the time.
Right now, the GOP are NOT into “Constructive Criticism,” but are champions of what I call, Destructive Criticism and further destruction of these United States of America. The only policy the GOP have to offer are do-nothing strategies and policies. The Republicans hate government and do want to see it Fail. The GOP will make sure if they can that any government solution fails and they will see to it that they destroy or are destructive in the process.
Remind these right-wingers that the war in Iraq has also led to the fiscal-budget crisis in the United States. I do not hear right-wingers complaining about the money the U.S. spends on Iraq’s reconstruction or all the wasted money spent on the bogus “war on terrorism,” as well as the other wasted foreign aid America gives out.
And entirely over the head of most right wingers. Crying socialism is the latest of their many fear/obstruction tactics.
Obama fails or we fail...that's the position they've willfully placed themselves in.
The cost of the war in Iraq as well as the tax cuts have been killers to the U.S. economy. Very few people are talking about the negative cost effects of this war spending in Iraq as to the budget crisis. But, one can look online for the news spreads that BusinessWeek did in 2003 about how the war costs in Iraq, the failed reconstruction, and continued American presence there along with tax cuts would have in the long-term on the U.S. economy.
There are no investment returns to American taxpayers, when the U.S. drops the bombs made by Raytheon, Lockheed Martin, or Boeing. Continued government subsidies to the weapons makers does not help put food on the table or get people educated.
There has been plenty of talk over the eight years of the Bush presidency that his policies would eventually be the economic ruin of the USA. The Bush policies were never sustainable policies. It is not the time to allow right-wingers to revise American History of the Bush years or listen to their silly sophistry.
Joseph Stiglitz: The Three Trillion Dollar War here.
Unfortunately the parallel policies of both parties regarding reckless finance, I simplify and call them Republicrats, these policies will cost us even more than three trillion.
Hayward on his bullshit. Just a few...
"Are Republicans killing the stock market with their apocalyptic hysteria?"
Yes.
The Republican Party is more dangerous now than it has ever been. They're down so far they have nothing to lose by playing dirtier than ever and are only banking on the possibility that they will be returned to power if they can obfuscate, obstruct, deride, demonize and scuttle every Democratic effort that appears as though it might improve our economic, diplomatic and national security conditions between now and November 2010.
Period.
Although I think boosh talked down the economy right before taking office, I'm not sure that Obama or FAUX is in this case.
Although indubitably many if not most stock brokers and advisors are conservative, I find it doubtful they're ignorant enough to watch FAUX news or to even care what they think.
I do think they want the fed cash influx, but fear the new regulations, and that may be spooking them, but even they want to restrain the unrestrained markets of the last eight years.
the markets don't like the unknown. it's like an actuary. it wants numbers. the universal language. but the market does NOT know what to expect. neither does anyone else. they have NO idea the magnitude of this crisis. if they do they don't want to tell the public because we will have a MUCH bigger problem. WHAT i think many people aren't capable of doing, is looking at how worse this could be. it's NOT just bad or good/better. NO one knows how to explain this crisis. it could be a much bigger problem than it is or could be. typical, of many people NOT able to understand/accept there will be some pain. OBAMA said it would get worse before improvement. it's NOT a SIMple toggle light switch. some people will understand that...... some won't/refuse.
That's the name of the strategy.
It has worked for most of the last 30 years, it is still working, and it will continue to work long enough to give this crisis to Obama.
You can't call 'em on the Big Lie, because all that does is provide another opportunity to assert it.
Confident assertion of the biggest falsehoods imagineable, repeated often and vigorously enough, become 'truth.' It becomes the "conventional wisdom."It doesn't matter if you believe it, only that you recognize it. It works every time. Never fails.
.
...fuck off. And Ford...Democrats are in control now, you don't have suck Republican dick anymore.
It's time to fight.
I buy that 1. They "rightwing talking heads" don't care about anything other than getting their buddies reelected. I am not understanding where this money is going. We are dumping it in but no rise in the market.
So I wonder after all the riots and the attempted rightwing revolution this summer, will they finally put a muzzle on these fools?
selling this BS, as usual, with coordinated UNCONTESTED repetition to 60 MIL.
obama needs to figure out a way to reduce the radio monopoly, quicker the better.
obama supposrters need to get his back by calling complaining boycotting and picketing their local RW talk radio stations and their local sponsors.
Corporate media are the propaganda megaphones for the corporat State.
Obama's just a place-holder, someone for the bosses to heap blame on, while the fascisti clean up their image.
In the Corporate State, corporate media are State Media...(somebody not famous said that...)
i haven't read the book yet. the author was on charlie rose a couple weeks ago. often lobbyists and special interest groups actually write the bills/legislation that is present to the legislative branch. money likes money, and their too much of it in wahington d.c. what is it 30-40k lobbyists in d.c. sure some are good organizations but many represent the ideas/interests of a chosen few.
The right wing bobbleheads are certainly partly responsible. But, there is an atmosphere of doom and gloom being fostered by the MSM as they compete with each other to see who can paint the worst possible picture, Since perceptions drive reality in the Wonderland that is Wall St., an evening anchor intoning in his most funereal voice the coming of Mad Max, it is small wonder that the next day is yet another horror show.
Money can be made in a bear market, so the bigger traders are profiting at the expense of the panic stricken small investors.
Sure. Just exactly the same tactic they used when they were CheneyBushCo's fluffers. Of course they got the market sprung with all that orgasmic "profits until the end times" dirty talking, but now they're mad and they're trying to spite fuck us out of recovery.
and punishing all the late comer boomers who got into the game when Clinton came on board. Buying everything back for pennies on the dollar.
run up your screwed.
By the same token, Obama has reduced American deaths in Iraq. Isn't that right Sean?
Keeps the people on their toes.
Freshens things up.
Nobody takes anything for granted anymore.
People are grateful for what they get: jobs, healt insurance, food, clothes, whatever.
They know their places...can be repossessed at any time.
Insecurity among the Proles is a good thing. Keeps 'em from organizing, cuz they're working so hard just to break even.
Plus, it gives the wealthy/elites/oligarchs a chance to reclaim their property, which they've been leasing to the Proles (though the Proles thought they were buying...silly wabbits), at bargain basement prices, if anything at all; court costs. Chump change, really.
...are when assets are returned to the rightful owners: the super wealthy.
...that maybe the downward trend of the Stock Market might have something to do with continued manipulation of investment by the right wing "wall street hoods"?
I was thinking, even prior to President Obama winning the election, that the right wing and corporate whores would do their best to tank the Stock Market in an effort to show NO support for this administration. What is happening is predictable. Unfortunately, many, like myself, are watching their 401's tank with the market. Hopefully we can all avoid pulling our funds while the market it down and hold out until the market resumes an honest trend based on real figures and facts, and not on this decietful statistical crime that's been going on during the last pig's administration.
these lying, twisting, neocon-supporting sacks of shit certainly aren't helping the confidence in our economy with all this hype and bull shit they spew to their brain dead geriatric audience 24/7.
In 2003 Milton, founder of the free market, stated that he wouldn't push it any longer, meaning that it had failed. The Raygunomic myth failed and is why we are where we are. There is no blueprint to get out of the mess the rethugs got us into. FDR was able to get us out of the Hoover travesty so they are printing the money. There is no other way to get the money flowing, genius. Why don't you use your brain for reading and thinking instead of repeating lies of the morons who got us where we are? This is the result of supply side lies.
I think that no light at the end of the tunnel with respect to the banking insolvency is what is causing the stock market to tank.
I'm not so sure that Tim Geithner is up to the job. I don't want to hear that "nationalization" is bad because government shouldn't be in the business of running banks, which is ideology. After all, banks shouldn't be in the business of committing massive fraud, and running these derivative based ponzi schemes.
Geithner hasn't effectively explained why nationalization is worse than the current approach. The current approach is to give the patient a dose of money, and check in 3 months or so to see how the patient is doing. No light at the end of the tunnel with that approach. And the AIG bailout is another quagmire that the government is throwing money at, with no accountability, and without giving anyone fact based reasons why we can reasonably expect the current approach to work.
Obama does own Geithner.
The problem that they are holding back is that deregulation permitted lending institutions loan out as much as 40:1 their capacity and these securitized loans have been ceded around the world The derivatives and swaps are what nobody knows how to value so they can get us out of this mess. I read an article that speculates that there is more toxic waste out there than the entire world produces. We are in a hell of a mess and the government is trying to avoid the worst. This didn't start with Obama or Bush, it started with Raygun and continued through Clinton and W Bush.
You hit on what I see as the reason the stock market is more down that up these days - they aren't sure which way the Obama administration is going to handle its clients on Wall Street. Is it going to nationalize the banks or not? With vague plans announced by Geithner (who was a hit on Wall Street upon nomination but has since not been received well there), the stock market doesn't know what direction we are going here and is probably taking cues from the world market instead.
I like Krugman's idea of "pre-privatization." It's nationalization by another name. It's also what Ronald Reagan did successfully during the S&L scandal in the late 1980s with a ton of banks - and no one called is "socialism." And nobody on the right seems capable of acknowledging this fact. It worked then and can work again now. Hopefully Obama will do it and point out the Reagan plan as inspiration to shut up the Glenn Becks of the world.
Does the stock market need any help over-reacting to something?
They've always acted like a bunch of lemmings.
It is basic economic principle that if a company is not making that much money or projecting to make much money,the price will go down. With people buying less all over the world, it is no wonder the stock markets are tanking.
"Are Republicans killing the stock market with their apocalyptic hysteria?"
Is that what passes for making a killing on Wall Street now?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-B1wdau8uHU&fe...
loves to try and scare people. No real information. Just fear.
"Remember kids, this is ALL Barack and Joe's fault. And not our buddy Bush." :-)
Who cares what lies and shit comes out of Reslugs lying mouths, on Faux Noise Entertainment, when every poll overwhelmingly says that Prez. Obama totally inherited the Reslugs mess and fuck-ups of the last eight years.
that the market closed up after the unemployment figures came out. That is what usually happens. Wall Street almost always considers low employment to be a good thing.
Most of us know that the employment numbers were artificially high during the Bush years and so the market was up more than it should have been if the reporting had been more honest about that "52 weeks of uninterrupted employment" stuff.
you could be correct. the "market" is a funny thing. my guess is the market already expected those numbers and maybe they weren't as bad as could be or expected. it's always a good idea for me anyway to have my contrarian hat around to get some reasoning regarding the market.
I've seen markets turn around and track back upwards on a major corporation announcing a new round of layoffs.
That corporation's stocks improve too.
The war between the Middle Class and the Corporate Elite is still in preparation, the positioning of troops (strategic propaganda) for the eventual battle for the wealth and control of the nation. To see what labels they can get to stick. Believe it. Obama has come down on the side of the American Middle Class.
Wall Street, Corporate America, banks, military industrial complex, the wealthy, the party that represents them, the Wall Street Journal, CNBC, Fox News, EIB, and an army of lobbyists are going to fight to the death against Obama and the American middle class.
Six weeks into his administration, Obama is being called a communist, a socialist, a liberal fascist, radical, class warrior, etc., etc.
Did you expect anything less?
Did you think that those who control the money and power were going to let it go without a fight?
In a Wall Street Journal interview on Friday, Obama was asked:
"Q. Is there one word name for your philosophy? If you’re not a socialist, are you a liberal? Are you progressive? One word?
A. No, I’m not going to engage in that."
That's it. We are the corporate media. We have a mission to protect the wealth and power of our benefactors. Please give us one word, because that's the limit of the average American's attention span, and we will take that word, manipulate it against you, and use it to our advantage to crucify you in front of the audiences that we control.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/08/us/politics...
Wasn't it Nixon or Kissinger who said, when told that some Latin American country or other had decided to devote more resources to the needs of their own population than the US preferred, "Make the economy scream", knowing full well that that meant they would be causing suffering and death in the targeted countries? I think that's what right-wingers are doing now right in the US. If people even begin to talk about increasing social services and moving away from the harmful only-the-wealthy-deserve-help policies of Reagan, the right-wingers will stop at nothing to destroy the economy, which means destroying lots of lives. And they could easily do it, especially since Obama's stimulus plan is still too supply-side to really provide the help people need.
No one in his or her right mind would want to invest in an American corporation today.
On the other hand, Obama's inadequate response and continued reliance on Geithner make me think that he (Obama) is going to end up owning this crisis.
sad but they are right,, where is obama on the banks!!!! Geithner is useless.. He needs to bring in the pros from dover,, Volker please..
Hannity should be the first to be without a job. The common people's voice you sir, are not! What a little snatch..
We, as a nation, sat by for thirty years of deregulation and then allowed the Bush Crime Family eight years to completely melt down the financial systems and you are predicting that it will be President Obama's fault after less than two months. Someone posted this article last night. Read it, study it, and understand that this is much bigger than we expected.
http://www.wallstreetwatch.org/reports/sold_o...
Whatever Larry Kudlow, Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly, Glenn Beck, Lou Dobbs do it is to undermine the Obama administration. If you or anybody you know starts to question what Obama is doing based on what you hear from right wing hacks like these, do not forget that it is their policies or the policies they stand for that got us into this mess. Make NO MISTAKE, what these people stand for is what put us into this situation and I am very angry about it. You should be too.
Make no mistake about it, this will be the fight of their lives since they know that their personal carreers are in danger if Obama succeeds. They'll fight for their petty careers at the expense of virtually everyone else, including the rich who need this economy to get back on it's feet in order to maintain their standard of living (and to keep the hordes with the pitchforks from showing up at the door).
... is their claim that "President Obama now has the dubious distinction of being the worst president ever in terms of the stock market in his first six weeks in office, ever, as long as records have been kept 90 years."
These sob's are great at using percentages instead of real numbers whenever it suits their agenda.
With the DJIA at 14,000 a 1,400 pt drop = 10%. at DJIA 6,000, a 1,400 pt drop would be 23%. So what will they say when the DJIA gets down to 4 points and drops 3 points? A 75% loss?
Also consider that of your stock drops 10% today and gains 10% tomorrow, you have lost money.
This from a Manatee??
Hate is such a powerful emotion and some Republicans have raised its use in the politics and pulic policy to a level of an art. Same people believe that they have cornered the market on patroitism and democrats need not apply. They lost the election, but they have not gotten over it. It is like 'How dare the Americans elect the Democrats and of all people, Obama?
They are willing to destroy the our country to to win a philosophical argument that their vision of how the economy should run? This is sick. I recall when Bush jr. and his co-conspirators were scheming to put social security contribution in the stock market. They never care to observe what happened in Chile and in Britain when it was attempted there. Retirees lost over 50 percent of their retirement. I guess evidence is unimportant to these people since they have direct-phone line to God who speaks to them about the sanctity of the market and the purity of their position. Human affairs need to be approached with humility,thought, careful experimentation and not with unweavering assertion. The Democrats need to fight back and fight back hard and should not this timid support of Obama.
Login or Register to post comments.