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Gretchen Carlson of Fox and Friends was all worked up this morning over something she read off the Christian Newswire -- and in typical Fox fashion, proceeded to report on only the religious right's spin of the event.

The story involves the Pentagon's decision not to have its Air Force jets do their annual flyover at the "God and Country Family Festival" in Nampa, Idaho last weekend. She had on Patrick Mahoney of the Christian Defense Coalition, which is constantly on the lookout for "anti-Christian" activities on the part of whatever miscreants it can manufacture. It produced this exchange:

Carlson: So when I first read this story, I actually found it hard to believe. Because for 42 years, at this rally in Idaho, the Pentagon has authorized a flyover. Suddenly this year, a new president in office, and a new policy. What do you make of it?

Mahoney: Well, we're stunned, actually, and it's a reminder that our Constitution promises freedom of religion, not freedom from religion. I think the viewers need to understand, the flyovers that were held for 42 years were not to endorse or promote any religion, but to honor the military, who was there in force.

Actually, the promoters of the event told the local paper otherwise:

Organizers don't deny the explicitly Christian nature of the annual patriotic rally.

"Yes, it's about as Christian as you can get — we believe in promoting Christianity," Syme said. "And we have no plans to change that."

Regardless, Mahoney charged on:

Mahoney: I think it causes one to pause and say, 'What changed? After 42 years, what changed?' And Gretchen, the only indicator we have is that we have a new commander in chief.

And I think that we are wondering, when we look at President Obama: Is there a culture of hostility toward expressions of faith in the public square -- particularly Christian?

Let's put this in context. Several months ago, the president spoke at Georgetown University; when he spoke there, he covered a cross, and he covered a sacred symbol for the name of Jesus. He did not celebrate the National Day of Prayer at the White House, had no events at the White House, and yet just a couple of weeks ago we had a major reception to celebrate Gay and Lesbian Pride Month in June.

So we need to move -- we right now are filing a Freedom of Information Act request with the American Center for Law and Justice, and we want to get to the bottom of this to ensure that no American citizen and no group is denied access to the public square because of their faith tradition.

Of course, I've never heard that "sucking up taxpayer dollars by employing the military for your entertainment" was a matter of having "access to the public square" before. It's a novel concept, but not one likely to fly in court.

But Carlson notes that of course the eeeeeevil Daily Kos endorses the Pentagon's enforcement of its longstanding policy. So I went looking and discovered that she was referring not to a front-page piece but rather a diary by Chris Rodda -- and a very good one at that, which explains that the Pentagon was actually finally responding to complaints filed by the Military Religious Freedom Foundation. And what happened was that the Pentagon finally agreed to enforce its longstanding policy against permitting military participation in religious events:

Looking into this issue for MRFF (in what I wrongly thought was going to be a very temporary job), I found that the Stone Mountain event was far from an isolated incident. The military was regularly providing flyovers at countless evangelical Christian events all over the country, not only violating the regulations prohibiting military participation in religious events, but spending millions of dollars of taxpayer money in the process.

MRFF began exposing these events, which included flyovers on the five holidays when flyovers at civilian events are permitted, and even a few at National Day of Prayer events, and began to see some decline in their frequency, but we weren't sure if the number of flyovers at these events was really decreasing, or if the military and organizers of these events were just being more careful not to make the nature of the events so obvious.

Well, needless to say, the following letter denying, for the first time in 42 years, the request for a flyover at one Christian rally, released on many websites in conjunction with a Christian Newswire article titled "Pentagon Denies Flyover of Patriotic 'God and Country Rally' in Nampa Idaho Because of its Christian Content," was the best 4th of July present MRFF could have asked for.

The letter read in part:

Your Air Force aviation support request doesn't fall into either approved category, as such, we are unable to approve it. Air Force and DoD policy prohibit support for events which appear to endorse, selectively benefit, or favor any special interest group, religious or ideological movement.

With an increasingly high operations tempo and limited resources to meet our training and operational commitments, we are required to take a hard look at all of our requests and carefully follow our policies and guidelines. In denying your request, we are not questioning the worthiness of the event, but rather enforcing DoD and Air Force policy to preserve the operational and training requirements of our aviation units and to practice the prudent stewardship of taxpayer-financed resources.

Of course, one of the ways you can tell whether or not these kinds of "issues" have any validity is by looking at the people who are raising a stink about them. One name that keeps popping up is that of Brandi Swindell:

Christian activist Brandi Swindell sent a text message about the lack of the flyover from Wednesday night's event at the Idaho Center amphitheater. She followed up with another message Thursday.

"This is unbelievable and deeply troubling," Swindell wrote. "The Pentagon does not have the authority to discriminate against Christian groups or events. This type of religious bigotry is unconstitutional. How sad to see this lack of respect and level of blatant bias surrounding the 4th of July celebration."

This is the same Brandi Swindell who ran for Boise City Council on an explicitly (and rabidly) anti-abortion platform, replete with bizarro antics and insane pronunciamentos. She was also kicked out of the Idaho House after she had one of her patented anti-abortion meltdowns in the office of the Republican Speaker.

Hearing a complaint about "anti-Christian bias" from the same people who are most aggressively trying to shove their "Christian nation" ideology down everyone else's throat is only mildly amusing. Seeing them attack President Obama as anti-Christian is pretty disturbing.



Comments are closed on this post.
431 comments

When they start flying down, everyone starts praying.

Jeesh, Obama can't win. He flies a plane and they complain. He grounds a plane they complain.

because what better way to carry you're message of peace and love thy neighbor than with a fighter jet.

Fox is an island of ignorance.

are not used to display christian symbolism, baby jesus cries.

[Comment Deleted By Administration For Violation Of Terms Of Service]
)O(

Couldn't it be more a question of expense

How much are these flyovers anyway?

doesn't care how much it costs to spread his word of military might, why should you?

You're making baby Jesus cry.

When a military jet takes off, burn down a new three bedroom, two bath home. When it lands burn another one. Plus they need maintainence that costs billions when we need those techs working on products to improve our balance of trade, not to spend billions so flyboys can play top gun against who?

they probably omit the equivalent of a fleet of trucks

Here's a suggestion, maybe, if they still want jets to fly overhead... They should pay for the fuel themselves. Religion is tax exempt, afterall.

("God is still on our money" was just such a big load of bs... pisses me off... These people get special privileges, but complain constantly when we equalize them with the rest.)

[Comment Deleted By Administration For Violation Of Terms Of Service]

Lol. Hey Fox, we've all been to the fourth grade and we ain't going back.

watching the Obama admin trying over and over again to be all bipartisanshippy with these ignorant thugs is starting to be a tad exasperating.

Besides, the GOP is too busy with their fratricide and sororicide of that wretched party.

I know some of you seem to want to use every opportunity to take a cheap shot at Obama but perhaps try to at least make them relevant

the bullshit christian discipleship required to survive a term as a student in the air force academy. that's fot starters. the evangelical bullshit going on in afghanistan is another thing.

I guess those planes are not the only thing making supersonic fly overs over some people's heads.

The point is that no matter what Obama does, he will be demonized by the right. Ergo I rather have him spend more time focusing on his base, than trying to appease a sector of the population that will never ever give him the time of the day. When push came to shove, we had his back. End of story.

Being reasonable is kryptonite to Rethugs. It's like pouring water on the wicked witch. Reasonable is good. Rethugs are bad.

Of course Faux would never cover the story in depth and find out how many other Air Force events have been cancelled this year. Like the annual air show at our local base. Looks to me like the Pentagon is cutting the fluff wherever it can, religious event or not, but Faux grabs every opportunity to make Obama look bad. Stupid is as stupid does.

Fox has a solid line-up of fiscal neocons promoting the neocon agenda of lower taxes and smaller government.

Now Obama has cut spending in one area--unnecessary use of hideously expensive military planes for civilian events. Are they cheering him on, encouraging him to economize in other areas, as his civilian and military constituency must?

Hell no, they're whining because he won't send the Air Force up God's arse!

but Nampa, ID is in the heart of Mormon country. I don't know how many times that I've heard from fundamentalist family and acquaintances that Mormons aren't really Christians. Unless of course a situation can be framed that Obama is attacking Christianity

)O(

Being raised a Mormon I know that's the case.

Often they didn't seem to know what they held against us.

Roman Catholic and Anglican churches require former Mormon converts to be rebaptised, because they don't see the Mormon baptism as valid.

I looked it up, and it made sense. They said they weren't in a position to judge one Christian's relationship with God, but it is differences in the belief of the nature of the Trinity as found in the Nicene and Athanasian Creeds(Apostle's Creed), as well as about the first half-dozen or so of the 39 Articles.

that other "sects" of Christianity are abominations?

There is something I always thought it was cool about the mormon church, and that is that the founder was able to convince so many people of his story. He must have been some awesome sales guy...

)O(

That is so. They teach there was a falling away of the true church that was only restored by a 14 year old boy who was essentially illiterate, Joseph Smith.

But I was talking about the validity of baptism.

But once they got into, "What we are, God once was, and what God is we may become," and he lives on the planet Kolob, I was like, "Hold on there, hoss!"

Joseph Smith's success was in attracting women, who would then bring husbands and children into the church. This was a period of intense change in the Burned Over district of New York, with many revivals, and even the sudden outgrowth of Spritualism with it's more-or-less revival of Thalia.

http://www.josephsmith.lds.org/Static%20Image...

)O(

You're thinking of Heavens Gate

Or Blisstonia.

)O(

Tue, 07/07/2009 - 17:36 — fiver

I thought your link would bring up something like:

http://www.oceanru.com/magdalene/Assumption_o...

... for Sally Field.

Still, they could have used a better theme song.

So

Basically, Battlestar Galactica was a documentary?

)O(

We had discussions in the church about Battlestar Galactica. Mormons still teach an American version of British Zionism, where all of mankind is decendent from one of Noah's sons, and at some point you would be told from whom you were decended.

Essentially all those people not born in the modern Israeli area is considered to be one of the 11 Lost Tribes of Israel (Jews and Arabs being the other two).

The discussions about Battlestar Galactica was that they had a similar theme in their story, and there was curiosity if any of the creators were Mormons.

Good story

)O(

Actually they are thought to be more like jewels. They were called the Urim and Thummin which were supposedly on breastplate or shield of Joshua's brother and allowed him to know the outcome of battles he was engaged in, and other prophecies of God. This is mentioned in Numbers 27:21 and 1 Samuel 28:6, and in Joshua 14:11.

the guy who stole a novel from a Pittsburgh publishing house, a novel that he and Smith used as the basis for Mormonism?

I believe, "We Retort, You Deride" :P

[...] Yes, S. Spalding is like to be set down as the author of the "Book of Mormon," and S. Rigdon as the impostor who palmed S. Spalding's Novel upon the world as a "Religious Work."

http://www.sidneyrigdon.com/features/RigSmith...

Them being written and all...

That being said, the fact that people actually took that idiot seriously is what I find fascinating.

... the similarities are more than striking.

Glen A. Larson

Mormon.

a Mormon, and made no bones about it, BSG (the 70's version) was directly based on mormon ...umm, belief?

I understand he lived in Bountiful.

"..he lives on the planet Kolob.."

In his travels around the galaxy, did he ever run into the Scientologists' God, Zenu?

Tue, 07/07/2009 - 17:47 — Sierra Matt

In his travels around the galaxy, did he ever run into the Scientologists' God, Zenu?
_________________________________________________________________

I wouldn't mind running into:

http://c2.api.ning.com/files/jVl-OshI4661q8aE...

is All About the Mormons in Season 7
They do a great job of showing just how dumb people had to be to believe it. BTW, none of the Mormon stuff in that episode is made up its all from the book of Mormon.

5 of my 15 great great grandparents and their parents were butchered at Mountain Meadows massacre. No Mormon will ever get an inch of respect from me.

)O(

Everyone has ancestors murdered by rival sects.

I could almost show a link between my early fear of fire, learning people were burned at the stake for Witchcraft, and although they were for the most part probably Christians, identifying with them so much, that it explains my current religious orientation.

They follow the teachings of some second coming of Jesus that appeared to the native Americans. Or so Josepth Smith said.

Now your Muslim are a bit closer to Chstian though. They just had a prophet who came later. Kinda like some of the Christian ones. And they just continued the Chistian myth rather then re-inventing it.

Not quite true.

Nampa/Caldwell are in the southwestern part of Idaho. The heart of Mormon country in Idaho is Rexburg/Idaho Falls/Blackfoot/Poky -- the southeastern part. Most of the farmers in Nampa are non-LDS.

Of course, had they flown over a MUSLIM event, it would have been proof Obama is un-Christian.

And I suppose if they don't fly over sporting events, Obama is anti-sports.

And, if it costs as much as they say, why the hell are they wasting taxpayers' money with ANY flyovers??

fly over Staples Center today either.

Obama is anti-Jackson.

)O(

Victoria?

.

Victor.

Someone who really can stick her head up her ass. So you can do a handstand. You're still an idiot.

...at a soccer game.

Imagine what the red meat crowd would say about that!

)O(

Shouldn't the tea-baggers be gladful, that Obama's trying to save them money?

He flew around with a sidewinder under each arm, I thought.

I think it's in the Buybull...

Wonder if they'll ever wake up to how much of a reaming and shitting on of their values they've taken at the hands of the right-wing opportunistic political machine.

The Christian right in this country stand for *HATRED*, nothing else...

I am so sick of radical christians trying to force their religion on me, and on the rest of the country- there should be NO religious activities that invlove anything that is taxpayer-payed; like a military flyover..

If these Christian nuts want to pray to their false idol, they can do so at home, but don't suck America down into a cesspool of Christian theocracy.

)O(

Matthew 6:5

"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men."

Try and find out how much American taxpayer money is wasted on military chaplains and their retirement pay. Talk about a racket.
I worked at the Army Chaplain's school at Ft Hamilton NY in 1971, have a new priest come in, vow of poverty means no taxes not even social security taxes. Worked at the Officer's club, they would come in with their new catholic church issued credit cards and buy a round for the house while they cruised the new crop of homosexuals. And I HAD to FUCKING PAY for it.

"And I HAD to FUCKING PAY for it."

Sex with the priest?

What a waste of bandwidth!

Cut the obscenely bloated 'defense' budget by two thirds or more, end the 'wars' and learn to live peacefully with the rest of humanity.

corporate profit. and it's great for the balance of trade when we sell old jets to the arabs and new jets to israel.

Sooooooooooooooo, are these the same people who had a purple, two-headed cow when Obama took his own wife to a play in New York? What about reigning in government spending? If the bible-thumpers want a military flyover, do what the "Liberal Hollywood" types do: PAY FOR IT!!!

And just a reminder for those who believe the Constitution doesn't protect us "from" religion, a snippet from the Bill of Rights:

"Congress shall make no law RESPECTING AN ESTABLISHMENT OF RELIGION or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; ...

It might be mentioned that this is the ONLY 2-directional Amendment. Yes, protecting the practice of and freedom from.

[Comment Deleted By Administration For Violation Of Terms Of Service]

"Blue light special on aisle five: tin foil hats!"

....to let in some fresh air, and step away from the bong or whatever else is fueling your paranoia.

)O(

Too effeminate.

I remember when all of downtown Waco was decorated for Christmas.

Man, how many more times do we have to hear this bullshit?
Hey asshole, freedom of religion IS EXACTLY freedom from religion.

Holy shit, every time I see a faux news clip I weep for this country. Their lies and bullshit 'framing' really only appeal to the dumbest fucks among us.

"Religion poisons everything."

and cults are dangerous, as they discourage independent thought, stifle dissent, and encorage self hatred and hatred of others..

was successful in his conquest of Christianity by naming it the 'state religion' turned it into a vicious, predatory, expansionistic, exploitive, manipulative, political unit. All political units whether you call them USA, or France, Italy etc. All political units were only made to control people.

Clearly this Administration is on a campaign to persecute and marginalize the Bonkers demographic.

Oh, how I miss Bush.

The Guard flies missions to Greenland several times a week, out in the morning and in at dinnertime. They also fly supplies to Afghanistan. I can wave at the pilots as they come in for a landing, and we call them "Honeys." Like, "Honey, I'm home." Then they practice take-offs and landings. They are so close, they make you cringe. At least they wave back.

Idaho has it's problems. The border with Utah, the immigration issues stemming from that border, Larry "our bathrooms aren't good enough" Craig, a 2 lane St. for Boise's downtown 80 years later. The narzi sympathizers, da klan, potatoes and water with serious heaps of pesticide residue. Give them a break. They probably can't help it.

lol...It's a registered repuke that wanted this...

Every time one of those unneeded pieces of crap takes off, burn down a new house. Every time it lands, burn another new house. The flyboys love them. Fuck them. Rockets can go faster and more accurately. In fact the current jets carry bombs that are really rockets.

Fuck them, Boeing went bankrupt in 1927 and has never turned an honest profit since then. The stockholders get their money from the bullshit planes Boeing builds for the military. It would be a lot cheaper to run them off of the assembly line and fly them to the nearest plane junkyard.

Don't ever let me get started on any battleships repaired or built after December, 1941, when the Japanese proved truly and conclusively that the only thing battleships were good for was they make great anchors when they sink.

What would Jesus do? When did flying jets boost ones' faith? So, Christians needs jets now to proclaim their faith? What a bunch of losers. They think they know what is in the heart of someone else that proclaims Christianity (President Obama). Frankly, they would not know a true Christian if he/she stood in front of them. And I cannot figure out how republicans can be christian. They don't believe in taking care of the poor, those in prison, those that are sick, those that are downtrodden, those that seek peace, etc. I know they believe in the death penalty, tax breaks for the rich, beating children, lying, stealing, and general hypocrisy.

the military have to do with Jesus? He was a pacifist.

jesus wanted to spread the word. the pope and his followers thought that meant share the wealth - other peoples' wealth. Now if you had to spend eight months on stormy seas, the first motherfucker you see better give it up easy or he's toast. that turned into papal doctrine. the rest is history.

Poor Gretchen. Those pesky old facts make her pretty little head hurt.

...with Faux mainstreaming all this paranoia about Obama, you know what's coming.
Arm yourselves and be prepared to defend your home and family from the self righteous.

also anti-christian. they are judging and not practicing anything like humility or charity. i dont believe Jesus would approve. i dont know for sure, but i just believe it. unlike so-called 'christians' who KNOW WITH UTTER CERTAINTY what Jesus would say or do or think. as if they alone had a direct connection. ha, i doubt it and how arrogant.

)O(

There's a new form of Christianity today known as Masculine Christianity

It seems to be a cross (so to speak) of Paulism with Iron John.

....bring your gun to church Sunday.

We got the prudish puritans and the "My God's better than your God" Pilgrims.

While the Aussies got the fun loving drunks and and social malcontents from prison.

WE GOT SCREWED

I'll drink to that!

We'll knock back a couple a pints a Fosters.

n/t

n/t

You can't have Freedom of Religion without Freedom FROM Religion.
The Christians want freedom from Islam.
The Baptists want freedom from the Catholicism.
The Catholics want freedom from Mormonism.

They all want freedom FROM their religious competitors.
Atheist, such as myself, want freedom FROM all of them.

I'm with you.

There is a quote in the Cris Rock for President where a Bush like candidate ends his speech with

"God Bless America"
"and no place else"

Like we have a special place at the GOD table.

I really think these folks think like this

so sang Kris and janis...

Though when you call, the phone just rings and rings and nobody answers. ;)

PS. I'm not sure if it's long distance? √

Freethought of the Day: July 8, 2009
Manoel Jose d'Arriaga On this date in 1839, Manoel Jose d'Arriaga (also listed as "de Arriaga") was born in Portugal. d'Arriaga was educated at Coimbra University, where he became a republican and a rationalist, for which his father disinherited him. Considered a vibrant speaker, the lawyer and writer served as Republican Deputy for Funchal, Madeira, in 1882-84, and in Lisbon in 1890-92. He was elected as the first President of the Portuguese Republic in 1911. D'Arriaga served the full 4-year term, inaugurating many "progressive and anti-clerical measures," according to Joseph McCabe (A Biographical Dictionary of Modern Rationlists, 1920). D. 1917.

What does the Mahoney fraud mean when he says "our Constitution promises freedom of religion, not freedom from religion"?

What the hell is he getting at? Did he say that right? Does the Constitution not also promise freedom from religion for those who would choose it?

Let's get it right!

Actually the constitution says:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

But like I said, you can't have Freedom OF Religion without Freedom FROM Religion.

Looks like some people have been irresponsible with their rights to their religions, that's all. time for them to grow up.

How the Frames put freedom from religion first.

They are shocked....SHOCKED and outraged......Gretchen and Rev. Pat should get a room together and cry on each others shoulders:
"OUR Constitution"
"Freedom of Religion..not Freedom from Religion"
"What Changed"
"Only Indicator"
As a taxpayer I wish to express my Constitutional Rights of Freedom FROM Religion by not paying for your f^%&^ing flyover.

.

)O(

Essentially, I think most would agree, is the first freedom of religion is choosing whether to be religious or not, and then what religion, and what to observe in that religion.

...Christians are soooooooooooo persecuted in this country.

I weep at the injustice of it all.

Pat Mahoney is one of those fucks who works closely with Operation Rescue. The guy is a supporter of domestic terrorism and he thinks we should spend more taxpayer money supporting this fuck?

...expensive props in conservative Christian's culture war. Nothing more.

Next week, I think I'll have a barbeque for which I'll request a flyover from the Pentagon. If I'm turned down I'll file an FOIA to discover who in the federal government is anti-me.

My thoughts exactly.

we believe in promoting Christianity," Syme said. "And we have no plans to change that."

No Problem! Just leave the government out of it!
Read the Constitution! We are not a Christian Nation!
We are a nation that embraces freedom of religion, Which means freedom from being told whom, and how to worship.

BTW...... From what I've seen of so called "family values" Christian leadership we could use a little freedom from religion in this country!

"I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ." - Ghandi

Still as valid today

I hope Obama is anti-christian and anti-religion.
Neither has served history well or The USA.

but still better than a Christian Evangelist who believes the second coming is right around the corner and who believes he has a roll to play in that second coming.

Did I mention, that was the guy with his hand on the nuclear trigger for 8 friggin years.

You're referring to GW Bush, but Reagan believed the same thing, which is partly why he was the first president to give fundamentalist Christians political power.

back then. Maybe they were as crazy and less vocal. I don't know.

What I do know is that this is not a good religion for keeping the planet green. They think they are soon gone so by all means, use that sucker up.

consolidate their power so as to advance their corporate causes?

I assumed that was a given.

)O(

I gotta skeedaddle now

To pray to the full moon.

Although I think it was actually last night though.

for being late.

I just have this funny feeling that Jesus, like Martin Luther King, wouldn't approve of the US military and thus wouldn't want anything to do with military aircraft wowing a crowd of religious people. From what I recall being raised in a Christian family, Jesus generally didn't approve of slaughtering people. But I've had right-wing fundamentalist Christians insist that Jesus was "a warrior" and that if he came back today he'd be a corporate CEO or a pro football player or something.

which thankfully did not take. He would be a Quaker, working in a soup kitchen and of course, voting liberal as hell.

"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household."

from Matthew 10

speaking to his son of steel, wasn't it?

The only thing she could come up with is listen to choir music and singing praises to Hosanna (whoever that is)

I told her, "Mom, you are really going to have to sweeten that deal to get Gen Xers interested."

Bless her poor miss-guided heart.

but 2 or 3 really bad girls would get my attention.

So let me get this straight. You spent the first half of your blog entry ridiculing the idea that this was being ended because it was a Christian event.

THEN you point to the complaints from the the Military Religious Freedom Foundation that PROVES the Pentagon did exactly that!!!!

Wow. And some people here were actually falling for your line of "reasoning".

No. Maybe if I write this very sloooowwwwly, you can get it:

This was being ended because it was a religious event, and not simply a Christian one.

Or do you believe our military should be in the business of helping promote a single religion?

or so.

Clear proof that Obama favors the West Coast. Yay!

even though no other religious groups get flyovers, now the christians think they're being discriminated against.

Why don't they just pray for the Flying Spaghetti Monster to do a flyover?

You guys are brilliant!!!

You say Christians have a persecution complex and then proceed to marginalize them with your "flying spaghetti monster" comment.

Could you contradict yourself a bit more???

makes at least as much sense as Christian theology.

Clearly you have not felt the touch of his noodly appendage!

I'm not commenting one way or the other on the validity or non validity of the belief system.

It's just that Reluctant leader was saying there was a persecution complex on the part of Christians and then he proceeded to ridicule them. PROVING THEM RIGHT

Ridicule is not persecution.

It one of the steps that all cultures go through in dehumanizing those they eventually eliminate.

And I didn't have to look hard to see signs of it here.

"If they drop bombs while flying over, that could work. " (quoted from a post above)

Get it? They want bombers to honor them by flying over their prayer meeting? You don't see the ridiculousness there?

It is called satire, not everyone gets it.......or so it appears.

it is wrong to ever ridicule someone?

That's stupid.

accusing Christians of persecution complex, by... pretending to be persecuted by comments that are fairly harmless at worst.

Thus providing a great example regarding the whole accusation of persecution complex.

Sometimes you just can't make this stuff up.

Any branch of any religion that squashes independent thought, demands obedience and comformity,instructs it's followers reject reality, to live in fear and to hate themselves and those who are different are CULTS. These pople are brainwashed, and if not, mentally ill...

I lost my oldest brother to fundamentalist christianity- He used to be a good guy-now he's a total ass**le,and a certifiable nut.
and we don't speak. He is now a right wing Christian bigot, and his entire philosophy is hate- he has a LONG laundry list of people he hates, BECAUSE he particular church tells him to hate.
He's a follower of the Christian cult..Wish I could deprogram him.

...even though no other religious groups get flyovers...

Lots of Muslims getting flyovers all of the time...Fuck, they even get to experience the thrill of running from air strikes.

Dark. But spot on.

Clearly Obama must be a secret Muslim...

...WHITE CHRISTIANS HAVE A PERSECUTION COMPLEX...

Pick any Sunday and go to a predominately white church and then go to a predominately black church. There's a 180 degree difference in views about the President..

Sunday morning is the most segregated hour in the US.

I suspect most Black christians don't have this complex because they know what it is like to ACTUALLY be persecuted. For them, in the not so distant past, a jet flyover meant that they were likely being bombed...;certainly it wasn't for entertainment.

Needless to say, however, it's just Faux fueling the fire and soon, very soon, one of these wingnuts will act accordingly. Get prepared folks.

What nonsense!!! A FLYOVER not long ago meant they were getting BOMBED????

COME ON!!!

Fueling the fire are sites like this that spew nothing but hatred and lies.

So, do you believe that the flyover's were directly stopped by the President?

yes, being Bombed was an exaggeration. However, everything else in my post is 100% accurate.

Here's a pipe and a match.

Quite frankly I agree that if these are simply expenses and cannot be tied to a legitimate training objective, then they should not be done. - or perhaps as a recruiting tool that could possibly be justified also.

By, your own admission above, it is Faux and Friends that are "...spewing hatred and lies." by actually trying to show President Obama as some sort of "anti-christian"

I'll buy the hatred thing from a certain warped perspective, but lies?

Please point out the "lies" in this post.

Not specifically this post, but scroll down to the Mark Levin blog entry below - it is full of deliberately misleading statements and those are called lies.

Your sense of humor needs some work. Go take a Midol.

Well, we're stunned, actually, and it's a reminder that our Constitution promises freedom of religion, not freedom from religion.

Shit, I don't get the freedom from religion? WTF over?

Haha, I often am heard to use the phrase, "WTF..over", I know it's origin is military and possibly WWll.
it tickles me to the spine....thanks...LMAO!

now please pick from the list of approved religions, you do not have the constitutional right NOT to choose one. Oh yeah, and do you want to get punched in the head or the gut? There is no third option.

I couldn't get past her frog eye look into the camera.

and how special Americans are to him.

I can't recommend. No one ever changes their mind on the big R

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