Frum unloads on talk-show wingnuts for distorting health-care debate, while Kurtz tweaks Fox hypocrisy
By David Neiwert Monday Aug 24, 2009 12:00pm
David Frum spoke out this weekend about the reckless direction America's right-wing talk-show hosts are taking our national discourse -- embodied by the nuts bringing guns to events featuring President Obama:
Nobody has been hurt so far. We can all hope that nobody will be. But firearms and politics never mix well. They mix especially badly with a third ingredient: the increasingly angry tone of incitement being heard from right-of-center broadcasters.
The Nazi comparisons from Rush Limbaugh; broadcaster Mark Levin asserting that President Obama is "literally at war with the American people"; former vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin claiming that the president was planning "death panels" to extirpate the aged and disabled; the charges that the president is a fascist, a socialist, a Marxist, an illegitimate Kenyan fraud, that he "harbors a deep resentment of America," that he feels a "deep-seated hatred of white people," that his government is preparing concentration camps, that it is operating snitch lines, that it is planning to wipe away American liberties": All this hysterical and provocative talk invites, incites, and prepares a prefabricated justification for violence.
And indeed some conservative broadcasters are lovingly anticipating just such an outcome.
Frum notes that conservatives were quick to attack a Homeland Security bulletin warning law-enforcement officers of a looming threat from right-wing extremists -- only to have those warnings come all too true:
Newt Gingrich tweeted: "The person who drafted the outrageous homeland security memo smearing veterans and conservatives should be fired."
I don't think the former speaker could tweet such a thing today in good conscience. The person who drafted that homeland security memo has gained very good reason to be worried. The guns are coming out. The risks are real.
It's not enough for conservatives to repudiate violence, as some are belatedly beginning to do. We have to tone down the militant and accusatory rhetoric. If Barack Obama really were a fascist, really were a Nazi, really did plan death panels to kill the old and infirm, really did contemplate overthrowing the American constitutional republic—if he were those things, somebody should shoot him.
Frum was on CNN's Reliable Sources this Sunday and talked about it with Howard Kurtz:
HOWARD KURTZ, HOST: Um, just before I came out here, David Frum, I read a column that you wrote for The Week magazine about people who bring guns to these town meetings or Obama events. And you really took on some on the right, on your side, so to speak -- Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity -- you talked about hysterical talk about violence, you said that we have to tone it down, we have to tone down, excuse me, "the militant and accusatory rhetoric."
DAVID FRUM: Ah, we do. We do. Because --
KURTZ: Is it fair to blame the broadcasters for this atmosphere?
FRUM: Uh, yeah, it's very -- coping with a downward trend in advertising revenues for talk radio, the broadcasters have ramped up what they are saying. When you have broadcasters saying the president is, quote, literally at war with the American people, um -- literally at war is a very serious thing, Al Qaeda is literally at war with the American people.
KURTZ: And has a deep-seated hatred for white people.
FRUM: And has a deep-seated hatred -- so it's inflammatory. And the thing that is so enraging about all this, is obviously people are getting more excited about that, than they do about the details of health insurance.
Interestingly, Kurtz a little later discusses Fox's flaming hypocrisy in backing anti-Obama protesters when previously it had dismissed anti-war protesters as "loons", something they were called out for by Jon Stewart on The Daily Show:
KURTZ: [H]asn't Fox, in fact, flipped -- some Fox hosts, I should say -- from slamming liberal protesters to defending these anti-Obama protesters?
That, in fact, is part of the bigger picture: The teabaggers are being inflamed and openly encouraged to act irrationally and disruptively by Fox News and its right-wing radio cohorts, specifically because they know that no matter how crazy they act -- even bringing guns to events featuring the president -- they will be actively defended for it, instead of exposed for the thugs they are.
Transcript below the fold:
KURTZ: Speaking of Fox News, there's a bit of a smack-down on the airwaves that we're going to play for you that goes to the question of how Fox is treating the protesters.
First, Jon Stewart, on "The Daily Show," played some clips to that effect. And then Bill O'Reilly came back the next night with a rebuttal. Let's show that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BILL O'REILLY, FOX NEWS: When we cover the town hall meetings, we don't describe the protesters as loons.
JON STEWART, "THE DAILY SHOW": Of course you don't describe the protesters as loons. What kind of monster would describe honest Americans voicing their political opinions that way?
O'REILLY: The surveys show many protesters are simply loons.
STEWART: All right. To be fair -- to be fair, those were protesters he agrees with.
O'REILLY: To be fair? Ha! Once again, Jon Stewart took the "loon" clip out of context. Here's what I really said...
There are the anti-Bush protesters here in New York City. While most of these people have been peaceful, more than 1,000 have been arrested, and surveys show many protesters are simply loons, calling for the destruction of the American system, calling for retreat in the face of terrorism.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KURTZ: And O'Reilly went on to say that he understands that Stewart is a satirist, but that he had been unfair in the way he had framed it.
So, Anne Kornblut, I'm sure "The Daily Show" does selective editing for comedic purposes, but isn't there a serious point here about who you describe protesters, depending on what the cause is?
ANNE KORNBLUT, THE WASHINGTON POST: Well, I guess so. I'm glad he has a new target besides Olbermann. There's a new fight going on.
Sure. I mean, look, we have to be -- I think all of us here are careful about how we describe the protesters and giving them credence. They operate in a different universe. And certainly, I think, Jon Stewart's goal in all of this is to be funny first and probably accurate first-ish.
(LAUGHTER)
KURTZ: Clarence, hasn't Fox, in fact, flipped -- some Fox hosts, I should say -- from slamming liberal protesters to defending these anti-Obama protesters, some of which -- some of whom are very articulate and some of whom seem a little confused about some of the facts?
CLARENCE PAGE, CHICAGO TRIBUNE: To be fair, Howard...
KURTZ: Yes, let's try that.
PAGE: ... to be fair that we are talking about the line being blurred between news and entertainment more than any of us could have imagined, except maybe in the world of Paddy Chayefsky's "Network" back in 1975. If you look at that now, you're seeing that kind of a circus unfold on cable TV now.
The real point underlying all this is that it's OK to slant your anchor coverage, if you will, to slant your shows on cable TV now...
(CROSSTALK)
KURTZ: But aren't these opinion shows? They're not anchors. They're not anchors, they're commentators.
PAGE: But, you know, again, how much of our audience out there understands the distinction? I mean, we're in this business, you know, and we make that distinction. But folk outs there -- I go to my video store and the guy says, "Oh, I get all my news from Bill O'Reilly." I like Bill, but getting all your news from any one place...
KURTZ: And MSNBC, some hosts, seem to be more inclined to go after these town hall protesters than they were to go after the anti- Bush demonstrators.
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It's a little hypocritical - not to mention late in the day - for Mr. 'Axis of Evil', Mr. Chief Adviser to Rudy Giuliani's presidential campaign, Mr. Bush Administration Speechwriter, to get all reasonable and attack the fear mongers.
He knows that something ugly is apt to happen and he also knows the right wingers are being stirred up. He isn't stupid and he knows that if something awful happens everyone will know who stirred the pot to make it happen. He's trying to calm things because the last thing his party needs right now is the responsibility for a disaster.
CYA for when the sh*t hits the fan.
Yep, he's trying to jettison the wingers before they blow the party all to hell.
T
I heard that phony-ass David Frum on the Thom Hartmann program last week and was not impressed by anything he said.
Frum talks with a forked tongue....Frum is part of that team too....you know in the lead up to the war on Iraq when antiwar protesters showed their disgust only to be met with how "unAmerican" they were. Well, people like Frum led the charge in the "us versus them" mentality during the Bush years....and all of a sudden I need to suck up to Frum now because he has had a half-awakening?
People like Frum are simply angling to get back into power and will say anything to do it. I am not fooled one bit by this guy Frum....I take nothing of what he says seriously...He will always say he does "not agree with Obama's policy" even as he does not like the behavior of right wingers....but then he will say "both sides do it."
Again, in the Bush years, Frum helped stir the right wingers up and the same people whom he now criticizes. Therefore, I take whatever Frum says and throw it out the window with a pound of salt.
As much as I have disliked Mr. "Axis of Evil," I am glad he is speaking out. In fact, he's been speaking out for months against these right wing wackoes. He made a comment either late last year or early this year that if the GOP courts the likes of Palin and Limbaugh, and if they don't go for young people, and if they don't go for cities, then the GOP will die.
Although I would like for the GOP to go away, I really don't think they will. Sure, Frum's comments are a matter of self-survival for the GOP....but I'd much rather have reasonable repugs rather than these gun-toting, religious nuts. They are very dangerous.
Here is an article Frum wrong in early March, in Newsweek: caution.....opening picture may give you a heart attack. So, Frum has been speaking out against these extremists for a bit.
http://www.newsweek.com/id/188279
Frum simply went to the attic, opened the old trunk and dug out something rare these days. It's called common sense and is not being used as much now as it should be.
The right-wing cowards are starting to read the handwriting on the wall. They've unloosed the crazies within their own sphere and now realize they can't control them. And all road are leading to Fox "News" channel. I'm hoping this marks the beginning of the end for "News" Corp, but it will unfortunately be a violent and bloody battle before it truly ends.
Boy, glad to see Howard Kurtz didn't forget who signs his checks, as he was raring to find a way to hit up ALL the competition:
"KURTZ: And MSNBC, some hosts, seem to be more inclined to go after these town hall protesters than they were to go after the anti-Bush demonstrators."
Why would they? Where were their guns? But, of course, that wouldn't be at all because CNN is barely able to beat out infomercials and test patterns, and now they'll desperately grasp any straws available short of showing porn to gain another viewer, right? Or, as their network is known to say, "Just Sayin'!"
a post on the important talk show and FOX hosts to generate some commentary.
They don't seem to realize that we were protesting unjust war, and they are now protesting the prospect of the health insurance model being brought up to date with the rest of the civilized world. You can't equate the two.
Oh, I forgot, they're really protesting a black man occupying the White House. They only thought it was OK if black men built it.
are proposing for health care reform will bring us up to date with the rest of the world at all.
It will simply enslave the American people to more for profit health insurance corporations where we will still get shafted with lousy care.
Any plan that uses Mass Care for a model will fail and the American people will pay a very steep price for it.
Which is why I support H.R. 676.
To: The American People
From: Your Typical Conservative Demagogue
On the Next Shooting of a Liberal Politician
Today is a sad day for America.
We all regret the [insert most recent event of wingnut violence].
Killing is not the solution to our problems.
However we refuse to take the blame for the isolated actions of these gunmen.
We have never condoned bloodshed.
And certainly, when one sees the actions of the current government, we can sympathize with those who feel uncontrollable anger.
So, while we are sorry for all the blood shed, we can't help but say, "We told you so."
Patriotically,
etc.
Frum laments that the advent of cable news didn't mean more and better coverage. On the surface I agree, but he ignores the fact that it is right wing, conservative policies that pushed profits over public interest, that are to blame. It started back with Reagan dumping the Fairness Doctrine, permitting the networks to move news to the entertainment divisions. And, continued with Clinton's Communication Act of '96 allowing media consolidation.
When David Frum becomes the voice of sanity, you know how batshit insane the base has become.
The talking heads are always comparing the deeds of these reich-wing crazies with those of the left. It's complete bull of course as there is no comparison. "Protesters" wearing the wrong t-shirt, and last I heard t-shirts are quite legal and got arrested and the right compares that with bringing legal guns to rallies. They don't even arrest them and yet it's "the same thing". Only the truely hypocritical and/or insane can believe that comparison.
the normally gutless media is as angry as I am, maybe now we'll get somewhere, now.
Meme to rightard wingnuts: You lost, go away.
If they're saying it, I'm wondering what's in it for them.
no mention of the CNN programs?
Republican rhetoric used to be content arguing that a Democratic administration would increase taxes and take hard earned money. Then, they ratcheted up with warnings that gun rights would be eliminated and that illegal immigrants would be given citizenship status and receive all the that benefits that go along with being an American. Then the death ghouls became to surface. Abortion would be commonplace and in fact encouraged.Still not enough outrage. Obama will have death panels to determine whether you or family members live or die after the age of 60 or so. The toxic mix of death threats and warnings aimed at the least informed and most reactionary elements of the right wing fringe is setting up to make Republican mouthpieces co-conspirators who should be held culpable for the incidents of violence that have already happened and will happen again.
Frum wouldn't be accepted in Canadian polite society, I assume...
that David chose to not follow the wonderful example his mother set.
"I hate falseness...I hate a lie - the big ones as well as the little tiny ones...and that really fuels me."
- Barbara Frum (a distinguished Canadian broadcaster and journalist, who died at the age of 54, in 1992.)
'On any given weeknight, 1.3 million Canadians tuned in to watch The Journal, where Frum hosted approximately 2,600 shows. From the great to the ordinary, she maintained the same standard of integrity, honesty and toughness of mind. Her thousands of interviews included people from every walk of life - presidents, prime ministers, world leaders.the unemployed fisherman. Each and every interview was different and revealing.'
Barbara was a gem. Smart lady.
Too bad about her son.
Seems like a pretty weird (at best) sentence to include in an article deriding the media for stoking violence. Despite Frum stating that Obama is not a fascist, Nazi, senior citizen killer there are plenty of people who believe that he is. And Frum just gave them authorization to go shoot the President - something that should never be OK even if the President was trying to do all the things Frum artiulated.
like Frum says the cable people don't get in-depth on topics but do 'just the opposite'. getting in-depth would reveal the money trail for many issues. this of course has consequences. also the (r) is already shrinking if they didn't use deception/diversions people might NOT vote against their own best interest.
you have to wonder if the health care cost reform is so wrong why would people lie if they don't want it. they know people want it. the global elites don't want it nor do hardcore (r) who are afraid of a positive Obama 2nd term and legacy.
I get John Stewart's point and his segment was hilarious. But the unindented effect is to equate the 2 groups of protesters.
In saying that Fox and the Right should equally condemn the tea baggers as they did the anti-war protesters suggests that the Left should praise the "right" of both groups to protest.
But the important distinction should be raised that A) anti-war/anti-Bush protesters stayed on topic, protesting policy and not insane, fake, distractions along the lines of the "birther" crap and B) no one on the left brought visible, loaded automatic weapons to protests, especially those in front of Presidential appearances and C) Democrats don't arrest people for bringing those weapons, but Republicans arrested protesters for wearing t-shirts with phrases they didn't like.
The truth has a liberal bias here - the "Left's" protests were acceptable, 1st Amendment protected, peaceful, on-topic and relevant and the tea batters are racist, inflammatory, threatening, irrelevant and off-topic. One should type should be allowed and the other condemned.
How is it possible that the idiot Republicans in Congress fail to see the danger in this type of inflammatory rhetoric, or perhaps they do and just don't care. If there are acts of violence by any of these right wing nut jobs, the Republicans and conservative media will have blood on their hands. Actually, they already do. The murder of Dr. Tiller was fomented by the right, including Bill O'Reilly.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/arti...
People seem to forget that this type of irresponsible hateful media, designed to stir people up, was one of the main causes of the the Rwanda genocide.
Wow. Frum is still an radical conservative asshat, but apparently a marginally sane one. Who knew?
...but it's sad that he said more things in that clip that need to be said than Tweety will offer up in twenty hours of programming -- and I didn't have to suffer through any tingling legs.
right wing talk shows. I can't stomach the likes of Beck, Hannity, and O'Reilly; I find each one to be whiny and annoying. It's disgusting. I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would take these ass wipes seriously.
But obviously they do, which is why I'm also appalled at how ignorant and gullible a large portion of the US population is. It's sad............
It is interesting that Mr Frum said, "He thought with all the low viewing time the cable netwoorks would put on more in depth coverage such as the whole towm hall meeting instead of just a sound bite of one person."
In other words, it sounds like he is saying that unrestricted capitalism fails. Basically that the networks failed him by not doing the right thing. He trusted them when they removed the FCC barriers.
Like trusting Wall Street not to do the same ponzi schemes that forclosed the nation. After TARP bailouts that they need no operating guidelines and a smidgeon of oversight.
Nay, Maddoff is a good guy and is just going to make me rich as he makes himself rich. maddoff is just a businessman.
"I don't think the former speaker could tweet such a thing today in good conscience." Who thinks the former Speaker of the House has a conscience, good or bad? He still thinks he is a leader of the loyal opposition who deserves to be heard as if what he says has any rational basis to it. He is a pastor of right wing hate looking for a church pulpit to spread his brand of hate.
In the past few days I have seen what might be a new trend. Some right wingers speaking out about the FACT that there is no death panel in the proposed bill. They are acting amazed that people think that the bill will "pull the plug on grandma".
i see this as simply a lame attempt to look reasonable, AFTER THE DAMAGE IS DONE. i did not see morning joe or frum put any effort into tamping down this false and misguided rhetoric in the heat of the moment. I seem to remember them saying that these were "real americans concerned about healthcare reform" and the administration was wrong for saying otherwise. did they call out the lies and liers? no they sat quietly for weeks and now that the myth has taken on a life of it's own, they feel the need to speak. sorry but my BS meter just went beyond the red line.
I'm not a fan of Frum but he is articulate,sharp as a whip, and knowledgeable about what he discusses. Thank god he is only a pundit. The rethugs could really use him right about now as a politician.
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