Ventura's smashdown tour continues, with Yellow Elephant Kilmeade the latest victim
By David Neiwert Tuesday May 19, 2009 12:15pm
Jesse Ventura's been making the rounds lately by taking on all comers on the issue of torture, which has left little quivering wingnuts like Joe Scarborough having to resort to attacking him out of his immediate presence.
Because as Brian Kilmeade of Fox and Friends found out this morning, doing so in person can be extremely unpleasant. Especially if you try pulling the lamestain right-wing crap we've gotten accustomed to, namely, accusing their interlocutors of not wanting to keep us safe, you're not patriotic enough, blah blah blah.
That's what Kilmeade tries pulling right off the bat, and it makes for possibly the best of the Ventura smackdowns yet:
Ventura: I have been waterboarded. It is torture. I can speak from experience. It was part of SERE training that I went through as a Navy SEAL.
Kilmeade: And are you OK now?
Ventura: I'm fine.
Kilmeade: So is Khalid Sheik Mohammed. He's about 60 pounds overweight, having a great time --
Ventura: It doesn't matter. If it was OK, then why don't we do it to criminals? Like, if we've got gang members in L.A., OK? We know that their gangs are gonna do bad things. When we arrest them, why don't we waterboard them so we can get information out of them? Because it's against the law.
Kilmeade: Do you want us not to be safe from attack?
Ventura: Don't come after me with that nonsense.
[Debate over its efficacy -- "ticking time bomb"]
Ventura: OK, why didn't we waterboard McVeigh and Nichols, then? There were more people that they thought involved at Oklahoma City. Why weren't they waterboarded to get more information? Because it's against the law.
Wait -- and if we're not going to be a country that goes by the rule of law when it's convenient or not convenient, then what do we stand for?
...
But what about the difference -- you bring up Timothy McVeigh and maybe gang members, and maybe those threats weren't as imminent as the threats --
Ventura: I don't think these threats are imminent.
You didn't think after 9/11, that America felt threats were imminent, that more could be coming?
Ventura: Maybe. But I think our behavior has caused us to be in more trouble. Now they won't release these photos. Why? Because they know the Muslim world will go irate. They're all after Nancy Pelosi -- when did she know? When dah dah dah -- Well, if we hadn't of tortured, it would be a dead issue, wouldn't it?
Let's go to the real issue: It's called torture.
Indeed: As we pointed out the other day, the fact that we find it necessary not to release these photos is proof that not only did torture not keep us safe, it made us manifestly less safe.
At this point, however, Kilmeade goes all-out Smug Right-Wing Punk on Ventura and finds himself confronting the reality that he's all for having someone else do his dirty work but Kilmeade himself -- of prime fighting age -- is too big of a spoiled, snotty rich kid to ever have to put himself on the line in a serious way. The resulting piledriver through the canvas is a sight to behold.
After all, it's easy to root for torture when you're not going to be one of the soldiers in the field who has to deal with the consequences. Right, Brian Kilmeade?
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Can we have Jesse Ventura replace Ed Schultz and do this EVERY DAY to right-wing tools???
!!!!!
**The Jesse Ventura SmackDown Show**
Excellent idea!
Trouble is they won't have Jesse back because he was truthful. With his own show he can bring on cheney for some clarification of the big picture.
I honestly thought Mr. Ventura was going to jump across the table and floor Mr. Kilmeade. That would have been terrific!
I think toward the end, Kilmeade thought that too. He looked like he was about to cry.
I think at one point you can hear him eek out, "Mommy"
he shit himself.
Ventura was going to have a tv show that was sort of an unsolved mysteries or a conspiracy? you decide kind of a thing.
I guess that fell through.
I'm glad Ventura's on our side. Dude can be scary.
It's nice to see a tough, ex-Navy SEAL standing up for American values and shaming the little chickenhawk conservative on his home turf. Beautiful to watch.
And I've been waiting for months for someone to ask why we don't torture our domestic terrorists (gang leaders, the mob, skinheads, etc.) if it's so effective and right. Finally! Of course the little chickenhawk couldn't come up with an answer that made any sense.
He was literally reduced to arm waving at the end. Republicans always wave you off when they fail an arguement. That's how they don't learn stuff.
And to think they were running the country once... shuddder.
--Jesse "The Mind"-- Jesse "The Guts" Ventura. The wonderful and the sad thing is he's the only one making the proper noise this subject demands. It's not even about promoting his book; it's about his absolute disgust in the lack of character of our society at large. All these torture revisionists/apologists are protesting so hard because they did nothing to report on it when it was happening, they agreed with it, they love Jack Bauer, and so they defend their complicity. And Venture isn't afraid to nail them.
You think he would be willing to loan his sac to Reid for a couple weeks?
Isn't it refreshing to see someone (an Independent, in this case) with a backbone.
-- would indeed help Reid, if he wasn't chronically spineless and a putz.
republicanism..../eye_roll
The word "illegal" doesn't begin to describe how evil torture is. The words "immoral" and "inhumane" don't do it. "Cruel," "vile," "subhuman" get a little closer. The fact that anyone would defend this barbarism on the basis that it works, and that the end justifies the means shows how depraved our society has become. The wingnuts can claim that pornography, abortion and teh Gay have corrupted America. I would ask them to take a good look in the mirror. How does it feel to call Eichman your bretheren?
Well put Candide. The republicans have now taken on the arduous task of defending vile torture techniques practiced at the behest of the previous administration. Disgusting.
Hard to believe we have a political party openly advocating illegal, immoral behavior - if we're frightened enough at the time.
It's clear - republicans are completely clueless about America, its spirit, its laws, and its citizens. It's like they are from some alien planet or perhaps a malevolent parallel universe. Is there any way to send them back? I mean besides the Rapture.
very well put
Ventura kicked this little weasel's rear end all over the place. Let's waterboard him, I bet he changes his mind. Speaking of that, where is Hannity?
-Unfortunately the Dems in the Senate still have the 2002 syndrome and will not be closing Gitmo anytime soon:
http://yellingatthemoon.com/2009/05/19/they-a...
..why would you advocate it?
I'm starting to have a problem with KO reminding us every night of how Sean Hannity is a coward because he has gone back on his word about being waterboarded. It is trivializing the illegal act.
Demand Accountability!
Read 1984. The chapter on "War is Peace".
That's why these people want water boarding.
As much as I hate that little scumbag, I have no desire to see him waterboarded for entertainment value.
even though he'd know he wasn't going to die--a luxury our prisoners haven't had--it'd still leave him a whimpering wreck. People would see in a second what it does, and Kilmeade certainly couldn't say it wasn't torture.
I tip my hat to you Mr Ventura.
Thank you for going head to head with the weasel surrogates who draw their paychecks from the accounts of the corporate fascists. Thank you for exposing them for what they are - blow-hard, fear-mongering cowards.
ever since he didn't have time to bleed.
One of the all-time worst lines. In real life where it matters, Jessie's cool.
Jesse is making a move. The Democrats SUCK only slightly less mthan
the Republicans. This site shows that everyday. Ron Paul stirred up
a big populist dust cloud, but couldn't really get past his lack of
charisma.
Watch Jesse. He is making amove and the poltical soil is fertile for
an Independent charismatic war hero that speaks to justice.
This is not a endorsement just an observation.
Did you notice how Steve Douchey didn't utter a word!
Obama and Ventura enjoyed a recent conversation? Ventura is smacking down every wingnut in sight.
Heh, I hate to crib anything from the WWE's Jim Ross but OHMYGOD!! JESSE VENTURA CLOTHESLINED KILMEADE OUT OF BOOTS! HE'S BROKEN IN HALF, KING!!"
After Reid pulled another yellow-striped cowardly move and the Democrats cut the funds to close Gitmo. Three years to create a viable third party!!
I would note, however, that once he is "The Man" Ventura's passion can come off as petulance. Not all his press conferences in Minnesota were inspiring. People should also take seriously that his wife apparently has everything she can handle being married to Jesse Ventura. She comes off as a little shy, may have class issues mingling with old money, and was sort of a Minnesota First Lady in Absence. Being First Lady of the United States could be her worst nightmare and is probably an important personal reason why Jesse won't run for national office.
It _might_ be an interesting idea to hire Ventura as a celebrity speaker making the rounds of states for independent candidates concentrated at the House level. I say concentrated because Ventura learned that an independent here and an independent there can't do much. As Governor our legislature basically ignored him. But if a third party could be a significant player in _one_ branch of Congress, it could at the very least monkey wrench the worst proposed legislation coming out of Congress.
I think Ventura is too smart to run for President as an independent, but if we could get a significant number of independents in Congress, I think he might be so tempted to lead them that he couldn't refuse.
After the first year, he sucked as governor and by the end of the 4 years, he completely lost interest; but there is a need for someone like him. He doesn't care what he says to anyone and doesn't sugarcoat anything. This is the guy who could shake loose the ignorant little guy from the tea bagger "movement" and expose it for what it really is.
...pussy Brian wouldn't have said shit. Boy does Fox have some tough guys.
Ventura's rolling.
Take a good, long look at Mr. Ventura, ex-gov., NavySeal, REAL DEMOCRATE..........next to Kneepads Nancy, PUKIE Reid. This is what Wellstone was all about, too, and why the PUKIES are still trying to kill Sen. Franken, his seat was also Wellstone's and it rankels the PUKIES that what they assinated Wellstone for, now is being replaced by Sen. Franken. hahahahahaahaha
What a great counter-punch to Cheney, et. all., blabbering about torture.
Keep up the great work, Jesse. I'm from Minnesota, spent 53yrs. there, but when the brown-shirts decended after they killed Wellstone, I had to leave.
I love you brother/sister...but take your meds!!
My meds keep my eyes clearly seeing shit for shit, and a real man for a real man!
Thanks for your 'concern'. Are you maybe a 'concern troll'??????
nope I am as progressive or more progressive than you are.
Read my past posts if you worry about me being a troll.
I get edited for being TOO progressive!!!!!
..........with your meds, then? Mine is somewhat illegal at this point, but not where I live.
clean and sober for 7 years now
i miss pot
but at 45 I'm running a 7 minute mile
if you hadn't laid off the weed you wouldn't be in such a hurry ;)
Pretty funny.....
..........what are you running from? My uncle, a chiropractor, stopped 'running' after he developed chronic low back pain, and a stress fracture of his calcaneus. 'Running' is not good for you, bro.
a running troll!
Running isnt bad for you, running too much is bad for you. and "too much" has a different definition for each person.
You brought up the other methods of torturee too. That is not in your talking points. The rightwing neocon fascist nazi corporatists do not want to talk about the other methods of torture. By the way, I'm starting tto think theey should release the pictures. There were far more prisoners tortured than three.
Apparently the beatings were and are routine at Guantanamo.
And not just beatings - ripping the feeding tube from one guy's nose and inserting the same tube (dripping with blood and gastric juices) into the next guys nose.
Pepper spray applied directly to an eye held open ..
Little Known Military Thug Squad Still Brutalizing Prisoners at Gitmo Under Obama
Brian Kilmeade.... just another Chicken Shit Chicken Hawk spewing the BUsh Co. company line. .
Forget his own show-- Ventura needs his own channel.
That's the best I've seen anyone articulate how cowardly the Conservatives' position is. They're for dropping our ideals the instant they get scared.
!!!!!! Next the the slobbering Cheney gang, he makes them look like babies in the crib.
....the Ventura "Expose the Sniveling Cowards in the Media" Tour!
Chump Scarborough and his valet Mika is Next!
Ship them both over to Fox and give us a real reason to watch in the AM. Please keep MB and give Willie a shot as a host...Just sayin.
passionate, articulate, well-informed, and tough . . . thanks, jesse!
Another fact I like to point out...
Because the Bush Administration engaged in torture, even after a number of detainees were found to be innocent and the SC ordered their release, the Bush Administration refused to let them go... even though they were innocent... out of fear they would reveal the torture techniques they were using, allowing al Qaeda to train against them (the same canard they cried when Obama released the info).
Another effect of using torture: "Holding innocent victims prisoner to cover-up your crimes".
You know, the smoking-gun guy who was waterboarded in order to make the "connection" between Saddam and Al Qaeda???
Perhaps Cheney's little assassination team at work??:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?contex...
you can almost hear it...
the number of prisoners that were tortured and died as a result? It's not like the murders haven't been documented.
The USA can no longer go on like this, not without admitting too the atrocities the country has committed.
..........and no one talks about the fact that these people can never return to the life they had before Booooosh/Cheney, either. Nor will what they have left ever be 'normal'.
that's why the military courts are gonna try these people. The evidence has been tainted by torture and would be thrown out in a civilian court.
Sad, really sad. America lost it's mind for 8 years and now there is no undoing it.
I left the country 18yrs ago, before the 'Permanent Rethug Majority' thingie. When the KKKristians started patrolling everyone's bedroom, I said, this can't get any better. It'l get much worse before it even starts to get better. Have never looked back, except to confirm the strong intuition I had so many years ago.
where did you move?
Obama has clearly stated that any evidence gotten as a result of torture cannot be used in the military tribunals.
against the Native Americans. It's an old American tradition....
Did you see when Ventura tells the douche-bag that he wants him to enlist and douche-bag's response is, "You don't like our armed forces?"
Talk about desperation. I just shook my head.
The MSM, War-On-Terror apologist will stop at nothing to defend the Bush administration.
jesses not fooled by the democrat douchbags either hes accused them of being the other white meat in all the crimes of the cheney gang, where will you be when you finally realise thier all just the one party of the corporations, wich would you rather be the bag or the nozzel?
Look how his whole manner changes when arguing with a guy who's bigger than he is, as opposed to say, Jeneane Garofalo. Physical cowardice.
And the end-- when he says, "wha- wha- y- you want ME to enlist?? You don't like our armed forces??", and just reflexively tries to hide behind the military. Or when he says we should drop our ideals when we're afraid. Moral cowardice.
What a sickening little toad.
Could have fooled me.
I changed it to "toad".
.
I vote "turd".
I thought I screwed it up.
I think toads can reproduce asexually so it really doesn't matter what gender is used for the pronoun.
Please!!
the losers are allowed to appear to land a few blows.
Jesse cannot really be enjoying this. It is too easy.
FOX used pro-wrestling as their template for football and for news.
Brian Kilmeade is depraved. I can only think the producers are depraved too.
when Jesse Ventura is more rational than Fox and Friends... oh what am I saying? No one on FAF ever sounds rational.
eva brown could do nothing.
is about as far as these Chicken-Shit Chicken-Hawks will go.Brian Kilmeade is a prime example of why these Idiots will never be taken serious.
They talk a good game until you ask them to step up and serve and
than they want to change the subject. Ventura fought for what he believed in Kilmead get's paid to Lie his ASS Off.
Someone should tell him there is a difference.
If Jesse doesn't get a spot on "The Daily Show" he should fire his publicists and if John doesn't put him on "The Daily Show" he should fire his producer.
I'd like to see those two together at this point in time. Would make for a very interesting conversation.
wonder how long it took for Kilmeade to wash out his underwear...
the Colbert vernacular: "brown haired guy who is not Steve Doocy." That about sums up his irrelevance.
When people talk about how 'effective' torture is, I sure wish someone would point out that is mostly effective for getting you false info that your victim thinks you want to hear.
Seriously, a mass attack is imminent and someone who has info to stop it (never mind how I know that this person has this info) and I are in a room. We both know why we're there. Can you think of anything more counter productive to the situation than to hurt this person?!?! Its insane.
Brian Kilmeade knows he doesn't have a leg to stand on so he tries to prevent Ventura from finishing a sentence. The little shit brings up the same disproven memes that are tired and banal and when they start getting shot down he tries to imply that anybody who supports the rule of law is unpatriotic and unAmerican. Jesse Ventura was a lot nicer to him than I would have been. What a slimey coward.
I've been through SERE school, too. Water boarding is torture. You're mind might know that you're not going to die, but your body doesn't. As far as your body is concerned, it's the end. We have disgraced our nation by indulging in any form of torture. The people who were involved, from top to bottom need to be brought to justice, if not in our own legal system then through the ICC.
Brian Kilmeade uses a wall of straw man rebuttals to Jesse's stream of valid points. He produces the non sequitur rebuttals so fast he must be well practiced. It's not that he doesn't see the truthfulness in what Jesse says, but rather that he's reduced to rebutting by making ridiculous claims, and constructing phony demons.
Gov. Ventura should become Obama's press secretary. I these blowhard, journalist wannabees would think twice before asking a stupid question or spewing Republican talking points.
Now, that would certainly be refreshing!! BUT, Rahm..............
was over. Ventura and Kilmeade continued to go at it with Kilmeade saying that Ventura is like Rosie O'Donnell. Big mistake.
I found this in the comments section under the www.Newhounds.us Ventura+Hannity post
http://www.foxnews.com/video/index.html?playe...
Go Jesse Go!
STM
Thanks for the link to the end show interview. I really enjoyed!
**The SmackDown Part Two**
Thank you, STM! Jesse Ventura rocks!
Thanks, that was fun. Did you notice that the woman on the show tried to bait Jesse into bashing Obama? She seemed desperate to get Jesse to say something bad about the current administration.
trying to goad Jesse into bashing Obama. She wasn't very subtle with her agenda, was she? She and her cohorts on that show despise Obama and take cheap shots at him all the time. She doesn't do news, she does GOP propaganda.
And Gretchen Carlson, like Jesse Ventura, is also from Minnesota. It's the land of 10,000 Lakes and land of 10,000 characters here.
I wish he was still our Govenor. All we have now is that little
Idiot Timmy Pawlenty.
After 8 years of Bush and now Obama seemingly continuing many horrific Bush policies and Dems beginning to fight their own President (boy, that didn't take long!) I would vote for this guy for President in 2012.
...for having the guts to call a spade a spade on Faux Noise. Fucking Kilmeade is a whiny little snot nosed puke chicken hawk who would never volunteer for combat. Neocons are too fucking chickenshit for that.
Dirtbags.
Jesse Ventura's comments were directed at all the chickenhawks, not just Kilmeade. Well done Jesse. You've just made us all proud!
Love how they raced to a commercial break to make it stop.
Kilmeade and Hannity your water boards are waiting!
What a couple of swarmy little brats. Typical cowardly conservative elites. No military service. No combat duty. Taking a big game with nothing to back it up. Ventura goes into the den of cowards, shills and simpletons on Fox and smacksdown!
Never though much of the Venturea one way or the other but after the Kilmeade and Hannity smack down on their home network of the GOP, love. him. now. that was awesome!
Damn fox whimps...
A few years ago, the talking heads were defending the admin by noting that the president had never used the words "imminent threat," as if that somehow absolved him of any culpability. Now, since the topic has turned to the right or wrongness of the rendition and torture of these prisoners, they are more than happy to invoke the word "imminent" to justify their evil actions.
If i was good enough at finding examples, I'd make a lovely video pointing this out.
here you go..
http://www.leadingtowar.com/mechanism_war_man...
But I meant vids of the admin or the talking heads denying having said "imminent." There's one good one from Meet the Press with Cheney that I found though. Plus I'd need more from now like this one with them saying "But the threat was imminent."
Here's Rummy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQk72bp7B84
kilmeade is a coward and a fool like every other person that says torture is OK!
I agree with jessie all these people involved need to be prosecuted.
republicanism is a mental illness!
Maybe somehow republican party has filtered out all the normal people in the population, and it's now left with nothing but the most demented, deluded, and narcissistic of thinkers.
...I sure the fuck am now. Kilmeade flashed his Cheney deputy badge that entire segment.
"If I'm not in the forces I can't fight for America...?"
Dumbass thinks shilling for Cheney in his air conditioned studio is "fighting for America".
Cowardly little punk.
as resoundingly as Mr. Ventura did, has my admiration and respect for LIFE.
Mr. Ventura chewed up, and spit right back in Kilmeade's face, each and every one of his pathetically lame talking points. And what does a 'man' like Kilmeade do? Why, what all repuglicant's do, stamp their feet, and throw a temper tantrum.
I thought it pretty dogdamned funny that Steve Doofey just sat there with the same 'deer caught in the headlights' look that's just frozen to his face. Doofey's too much of a coward himself to stick up for his butt-buddy ... LMAO!
Rock on, Jesse.
The bad news is of course the fact that Jessie is at the very least, a mixed blessing. He's barely under control at best.
The good news is that he's on our side, at least on this issue. He has a huge podium, and apparently a VERY good agent. He gets his message on shows that would never permit a "liberal blogger" to have a bully pulpit.
Jessie has been a professional performer, first as a wrestler and later as an actor, and he owns any stage he's on. His torture credentials and military history are unassailable. The pro-rassler ("You tell The Crusher I'm coming for his wife.") act, the powerful personality and the imposing physical presence work perfectly on the milquetoast TV liars, who seem to shrink by comparison.
Jessie can deliver this message better than any politician can, because Jessie doesn't need votes, he needs to sell books, and he doesn't compromise on anything. I'll bet he sold a lot more books in the last couple of days.
Leading up the Iraq war and during the early stages it was almost impossible to turn on cable news and not see a retired military discussing the war, etc.
Now at a time when our soldiers need to have support at home, they seem to have disappeared.
Thanks Jesse Ventura for answering the call.
Posts underneath Jesse the banner "I'm ashamed of my country". When will you Republican asshats get it through your head that WE LOVE OUR COUNTRY AND ALL IT STANDS FOR and we are sick of YOUR GANG OF THUGS committing crimes IN OUR NAME. Why didn't FOX run a banner under Kilmeade that said "I'm a stooge for an evil gang of sadists, and if I weren't such a whiney little bitch, I'd face up to that fact."
I'll say it again: I love that man.
waterboarding a few select creeps that we are CERTAIN know something does that make me any less of a liberal? Maybe that places me left of center?
As Jesse said, where does it end? This week it's a radical Muslim terrorist. Next year it will be the leader of the Crypts or the Bloods. And a decade from now it will be anyone who pleads the fifth, against self-incrimination. And within our lifetimes we will see administrations doing it to anyone they determine to be 'less than human', or 'Untermenchen' as they were called under the Nazis.
This is one hell of a slippery slope, as anyone with even a little foresight can see. We should not be torturing anyone. We do not need to become the monster we are fighting, in order to defeat that monster.
Remember Juan Padilla?
that places you pretty far right of center. And also on the wrong side of the laws of the United States, the international community and the civilized world.
One thing is for certain, most people will give you any information you want to hear when they're waterboarded. Is that the kind of information you really want?
I repeat, the NSA, FBI and CIA had the information they needed to prevent 9/11. They simply didn't share it with each other. And it was gathered without torturing anyone.
Personally, I think it makes you less of a human. When you torture, you deny the humanity of those being tortured.
I'd like to know how a government should react to a "ticking bomb" type situation. I know its a hypothetical question, but what should be done with someone who may have some information about an imminent attack on America? Is torture justified in this situation if it helps saves countless lives?
For the record I believe that the people that were waterboarded were done so to get false information regarding a link between Iraq and Al Queda.
Cheney's defenders keep asking the hypothetical question, "Wouldn't you do everything you could to protect Americans/your loved ones/cute puppies if you knew a terrorist had information concerning an imminent threat? Wouldn't you? Huh? Huh?"
Ventura said he wouldn't torture, but he failed to say why. The answer, though, is straightforward -- if there's a ticking time bomb, the last thing I need to do is provide an incentive for the subject to lie because all he needs to do is mislead me long enough until the bomb goes off.
Frankly, I wish Ventura and others would think this through before they go on television. The exchange should look like this:
Right-wing syncophant: "Wouldn't you do everything you could to protect Americans if you knew a terrorist had information concerning a ticking bomb?"
Rational person: "That's a dumb question based on a false assumption. You assume that if I torture the terrorist I'm going to get good information that will help me stop the bomb. In addition to being illegal, if he lies to me and I waste time pursuing the lie, the bomb's going to go off. That's why we don't torture, because it results in bad information, and because it's illegal and immoral. And if we're going to use a little torture, why not a lot? Are you proposing we cut off body parts until they give us an answer? How about we strangle their children in front of them, and mutilate other family members?"
I am proud of Ventura coming out on Fox, of all places, and going toe to toe with all these bobble head chicken hawks. It's about time the Faux crew get put in their place; which is under the heels of The Body.
"AMERICAN"...that's what Mr. Ventura is. Bold! Honest! Courageous! Witty! I am buying 10 copies of his book to start. Birthdays...Fourth of July parties! Let's see our other talking heads take suit and challenge these antiAmerican "talkers"......EAT THE RICH! Throw down your books and pick up your guns....Don't Start The Revolution Without Me Either! Go Jesse!
Paul Revere
...too afraid to live. What a colossal coward.
Ticking time bomb. Ticking time bomb. Ticking time bomb. Ticking time bomb. Ticking time bomb. Ticking time bomb. Ticking time bomb. Ticking time bomb. Ticking time bomb. Ticking time bomb. Ticking time bomb.
It never occurs to pinheads like this that there is no minute of any day when there isn't the potential threat of "the ticking time bomb." Doesn't that mandate torturing everyone, all the time? After all, which is scarier the ticking time bomb you don't know about or the one you do?
We're DEFINITELY not paranoid enough yet!!
/snark
What is the most scary thing about Fox news is, a lot of people REALLY believe the shit they spread. It's unimaginable that there are people really THAT stupid. There are no excuses for them... they are just plain stupid... and they all vote republican!
My knd of thinking, common sense
I'm not a person that advocates violence, but I was actually pulling for Jesse Ventura to pop Kilmeade right in the kisser.
Ventura was right when he challenged Kilmeade on the fact that he was another fuckwit chickenhawk that advocates torture but would never volunteer to fight for his country.
Jesse, you're one of my Vietnam brothers...welcome home, and welcome back to the fight for what we thought we were fighting for over there, freedom and dignity and the rights of man.
can it be long before they're supporting this:
http://wire.antiwar.com/2009/05/13/rape-is-ef...
About time somebody body slammed that yellow bellied pussy Kilmeade. And let Jesse's example be a lesson to others. Sometimes, you just need to get in people's faces to get your point across. To hell with this nice, concilatory backslapping stuff anyway. There is a time for all things and now its time to kick ass and take no prisoners to show these reichwing media goons that we mean business. Force and confrontation are the only thing these simpletons understand anyway.
I love the fact the Ventura took it to the cowards at Fox. It would have been nice, however if he could have been allowed to totally trash that "ticking time bomb" senario though. In my opinion there are four main reasons why it is fiction.
One: One would have to know that there is some kind of threat coming to your area.
Two: One would have to have some kind of idea of the level of the threat, that is you have to know what it is your facing.
Three: You have to know the threat is imminent. That is in the "ticking bomb" senario, you must know the countdown has begun.
Four: You have to know who has the information that you need to deal the threat, and that information is current and up to date.
The problem with all these factors in regard to torture is that for points one and two you can get that information through other means of investigation. Point three depends on point four, and the problem with point four is that all the guy your holding needs to do is hold out long enough to let the clock run down then lie. Why is that important? Because the people who avocate torture skip one little fact. If the guy be held and tortured is the only one with information where the bomb is, how it is made and so forth, there is no way to check if he is lying! There would certainly be no time as there would be no way to know when the countdown was started!
This also presupposes that one has the right guy in the first place. The terrorists could easily give out false information to the person who is picked up. He would believe that information was real when in fact it was false.
All in all, the ticking time bomb senario is a load of crap.
As detailed on Nova's "Spy Factory," the NSA, FBI and CIA had all the information they needed to prevent 9/11. Without waterboarding or torturing.
9/11 wasn't a lack of information. It was a lack of SHARING the information. The NSA had been tracking the hijacker's phone calls for years. And the FBI and CIA had been trailing them for years. The problem wasn't lack of information it was the NSA wouldn't give the FBI the information it was compiling. And the FBI weren't allowed to share their information with the CIA or NSA.
The information they obtained was purely by good old investigating, not torture.
The torture wasn't done for information gathering, it was done to reinforce a story the administration wanted to tell. Waterboarding someone 80 times(or 180) in a month isn't to elicit true information, it's to elicit false information. After all, the methods of "enhanced interrogation" came out of a manual detailing methods used by the Chinese to get false confessions.
If torture works, that means the 25 people executed for witchcraft in Salem, Massachusetts really were casting spells.
I have made the same point over and over again. It's such a dumb example, but it's repeatedly invoked by the right. I wish someone would apply this logic on television.
when these cowards put our armed forces in harms way with nonsense. They use bully tactics that they cannot do themselves. Just like Cheney could not go into the armed forces 35 years ago. He is a coward. Americans are supposed to be the good guys, but these creeps keep getting in the way.
Conservative Coward Smackdown!
Another republican TV tough guy. The only reason this ass clown favors torture is because it’s a republican idea. If Obama tortured Kilmeade pea brain would explode. Step up to the plate Kilmeade, if torture isn’t so bad get water boarded until then shut the fuck up you big pussy.
Oh these republican shit bags are funny. They ALWAYS foget we got attacked on 911 under their watch.
For the man continues to grow. Smackdown? Nah, more like Jessie Ventura's bitch-slap tour. Nice to see someone taking the fight, so to speak, to Faux's home turf.
Hope Billy and Beck get their turns.
El gobernador presento sus argumentos con gran pasion, pero le falto el tiro de gracia; el desenlace se venia venir. La marioneta, viendos los hilos que la movian, trataba de justificar los argumentos Orwellianos de su maestro. Edificios en llamas, gente saltando la vacio, los cuatro caballos galopando, repetia el. La marioneta intentaba de convencer a alguien, al que fuera, de lo que salia de su boca. Buscaba que alguien intercediera, que apoyara su torturada logica. Era un hecho que ya al final el gobernador olia sangre. Quizas era el miedo de la marioneta; la verdad saldria en vivo y en directo: "Soy un cobarde, ya no es mi secreto". Mi fetiche es la tortura. La tortura de los sub-humanos, de los que no se quieren subyugar a la politica de cruzada; la cual los americanos han perfeccionado. Que otros paguen por mis deseos masoquistas; que la sangre que se derrama dia a dia por estas acciones sea la de otros. Desde su altar la marioneta acusaba a el gobernador de no ser patriota, de desear la destruccion de la madre patria. Pero el gobernador le dio el jaque y mate: "Haz servido alguna vez?". Los huevos de este tipo al cuestionar mi patriotismo. Hipocresia, perfeccionada por este soldado de carton, esta marioneta.
Buenas noches.
The governor presented his arguments with great passion, but did not deliver the coup de grace, not his fault, they'd never let him. The outcome of this "interview" was imminent. The puppet, following the threads that moved him, tried to justify the Orwellian arguments of his masters. Buildings on fire, people jumping to their deaths, the four horses galloping, he repeated. The puppet was trying to convince someone, anyone of what came out of his mouth. Looking for someone to intercede, to support his tortured logic. It was a fact that towards the end the governor smelled blood. Maybe it was the fear of the puppet, the truth would come out, live on TV: "I am a coward, it's not my secret anymore". My fetish is torture. The torture of sub-humans, of those who don't want to subjugate themselves to the political crusades, crusades which the Americans have perfected. Let others pay for my masochistic desires, and that the blood spilled every day for these acts of torture is that of others. From his altar the puppet accused the governor of not being a patriot, of wishing for the destruction of the Homeland. But the governor made the move; checkmate. "Have you ever served?" The balls on this guy to question my patriotism, said the puppet. Hypocrisy, perfected by this cardboard soldier-puppet. Good night.
Guerra es paz; Libertad es esclavitud; Ignorancia es fuerza
You make your points well, and when you say it in Spanish, it gives it a poetry and grace that English doesn't always have. It amazes me that many in this country continue to mistakenly believe Hispanic people are inferior because they speak a different language.
Muchas gracias, mi amigo.
twat.
The beauty of Jesse is, he turns the entire Republican "you're weak and unpatriotic" argument against them. And ordinary people, who do have friends and family who have sacrificed for their country can recognize that.
Look at the talking heads. They're pussies like Limbaugh and Gingrich who conveniently dodged Vietnam. Or this absolute young Republican pussy, Brian, who's closest brush with war was when he saw Apocalypse Now Redux on his home theater system.
Go ahead, Bri. Tell us how you're fighting for your party...oops...I mean, country.
N/T
What a fucking ass bag this weinie is.
He tore this wingnut to shreds- and of course notice how the wingnut got all defensive when Jesse encouraged him to enlist?
I hope Jesse will continue to speak out against the radical right- i'd love to see him rip Billo a new one...
Was sniveling at the end. What a fucking pussy. Ventura had him shaking as if Kilmeade never had to defend himself before.
If he runs for something again I'll be donating to his cause.
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Brian Kilmeade wouldn't last one hour, let alone being pushed to the edge of death, revived, and pushed to the edge again, six times a day for 30 days. He's a 'Class A' wimp.
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