Navy gets all-clear from Supreme Court to harm whales
By David Neiwert Friday Nov 14, 2008 5:30amWhile progressives everywhere are basking in the knowledge that liberal Democrats now control two of the three estates of the federal government, it is worth remembering that despite the voters' mandate, the Right still controls (barely, by a one-vote margin) the third: namely, the Supreme Court. And the right-wing Federalist Society dogmatists now sitting on the court are not only capable, but extremely likely, to wreak havoc with that mandate.
We received an unpleasant reminder of that reality this week:
The nation's need for Navy sailors to practice using sonar to guard against enemy submarines "plainly outweighs" any legal requirement to protect orcas and other marine mammals, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled Wednesday, turning back environmentalists' efforts to restrict sonar use during naval training exercises.
Quoting a 1907 statement by President Theodore Roosevelt -- "the only way in which a navy can ever be made efficient is by practice at sea" -- the high court's five-member conservative majority said lower courts had improperly restricted naval exercises off Southern California.
But the justices in the majority stopped short of endorsing a Bush administration attempt to justify using a controversial White House waiver to justify the exercises.
When the lower court's ruling was announced earlier this year, it appeared to be a significant win for environmentalists, not to mention the cetaceans affected by these tests. It was also a win for the rule of law, considering the Bush administration's egregious lawbreaking in attempting to foist these tests on us.
But the court took care not to address that issue:
Ginsburg noted that the Navy took the "extraordinary" step of going to the White House's Council on Environmental Quality to obtain a waiver.
"To justify its course, the Navy sought dispensation not from Congress, but from an executive council that lacks authority to countermand or revise (legal) requirements," she wrote.
The majority opinion sidestepped that issue.
These tests are likely causing these creatures real harm, particularly the cetaceans that have echolocation capabilities, because they are so sensitive to sonic events (it is their primary way of "seeing"). It appears even to be killing some of them, particularly the porpoises that have washed up looking like this.
The ruling's effects on wildlife are likely to be profound, especially in areas with endangered populations of cetaceans, such as the Puget Sound, where the resident killer whales have been listed under the ESA, and whose most recent population count showed yet another decline.
As the Center for Whale Research reported when the sonar was tested in the Puget Sound's canyon walls back in 2003, both orcas and porpoises were profoundly disturbed by these tests. Some 15 harbor porpoises washed up dead in short order. (More details on the tests and their aftermath can be found at the Orca Network and at LFAS.net).
The most aggravating aspect of this is that the Navy has never attempted to demonstrate that it these tests and practices must be conducted without any consideration of the surrounding environment -- that is, they're insisting they be able to conduct them at any time and under any situation, regardless of impact.
No doubt these considerations would inconvenience the Navy, but it has never demonstrated that the tests cannot be conducted without making the appropriate situational assessments. It just wants to conduct them at its own convenience, and the public -- and the animals -- be damned.
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If you're interested in getting a glimpse of the sonic world these creatures inhabit, check out the video I made last summer, which features sounds I captured through a hydrophone of killer whales communicating. The photos and sounds were taken at very nearly the same exact location as the whales you see in the video atop the post during those sonar tests.
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Now we no longer have to worry about Al Qaeda’s plot to ride into America on the backs of explosive laden whales.
This is truly heart breaking. As the wife of a marine biologist who deals with threatened and endangered species, I wonder if any of these people have witnessed a dying whale take its last breath or heard their haunting sounds they make. That's an experience one will never forget, unless of course you have no heart.
you're talking about political psychopaths that have barely any emotions for the people, and you expect it from them regarding animals - especially leaders who used to stick firecrackers in the rears of frogs and explode them??
And we could have had a vice president who likes to shoot animals from a helicopter. Now we have a vice president who likes to shoot birds and lawyers in the field. I hope Biden isn't into killing animals for sport.
Biden is into killing innocent people.
He supports the phony war on terrah.
Biden is an instrument of the elite and of the military industrial complex. period.
he is a co-conspirator.
May as well add Obama to your criminal list for selecting Biden....before you return to red state.
L&L,
skip over people? Really? Did you read the post my response was to? It was referring to VP's - not anyone else, so I limited the response to VP's. There is no need to read something else into that because I didn't mention others.
I can add a whole massive list of people - Both Republican and Democrat to the list of criminal co-conspirators.
... have no heart. They're devoid of empathy. It's all about THEM.
Alito/Roberts: never again. White-bread fascists.
Nobody crosses the military industrial complex.
not congress, not the Supremes, and certainly not agents of Change.
He would Filibuster ANY attempt by the Obama to change the "balance" of the SCOTUS.
They worked so hard getting it to where they could screw the World with their decisions.
Heeey! Good evening to you. Haven't seen you for a while. Of course I haven't been around a whole lot myself.
I'm with my friends kayaking in Laos. Rains have pretty much stopped and we are celebrating Obama's win with a bit of fun.
The Mekong is really full right now.
I can't even imagine doing something like that. Enjoy your heart out, everyone who was pulling for Obama deserves some fun right now.
If you're Kong what does that make me?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUPP2l9T-KI
Line?
I think we need a few Zodiacs and some bullhorns. Sign me up.
A whale of a decision.
I would say restrict the use of sonar as much as possible and use more simulators.
But I doubt the government was overly concerned with the environment when they were conducting nuclear tests.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fPcqu5aMyw
or of its troops and civilians. Remember the Atomic veterans who were marched and exercised under the mushroom clouds of above ground tests? Human guinea pigs.
remember how those weapons were detonated and the fallout spread over Nevada?
...Just look up. If you have lines in your sky, that's the Air Force "owning the weather by 2525" as they wrote a couple of decades ago.
We call them chemtrails, but because we use methods of fighting back, seldom have them in our area. They still TRY to spray, especially in front of oncoming storms, but those lines don't stick any more.
Write to me. We'll discuss this issue.
Here's hoping that Obama gets to select a couple new appointees to the supreme court in the next four years...
Mahatma Gandhi has said -
"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated."
America seems to be on a path away from greatness and morality.
oh it's way past the SEEM's juncture.
It's way beyond the perception of SEEM's.
That quote should read: "The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its people are treated."
For all its accomplishments, India is still a dump. Cows, goats and donkeys walk freely on the streets of all of its major cities.
Its citizens are just votes, more than people.
One day when we need those sonar systems, you'll be happy a few whales had to die.
Wow, that sounded harsh, and borderline ignorant. Sadly, true.
I'm afraid a lot of environmental issues are going to take it in the shorts due to the financial pinch. I know here, local governments are cutting back as much as they can on standards regarding environmental regulations. They just don't have the money to do as much as they used to do.
U.S.A! U.S.A! U.S.A! U.S.A! U.S.A!
j/k
just wait until all those whales are dead and we don't have anyone in seas to talk to the giant probe in the 24th century.
Whales get prostate exams?
Sound like being inside of a Buddhist Temple, those big Oommms sound like the monks and then the squeaky kids outside playing.
Some years back several whales beached themselves here. I can't remember what kind they were but they were big. There were several in water almost waist deep and they were ill. Others though were okay but they kept swimming near by and calling to the sick ones. The well ones would swim up so close they would almost beach themselves trying to call the sick ones to follow them back out to sea. Finally the well ones beached themselves because they would not leave the others. All those calls that day were just so damned sad. Finally they had to euthanize all of them.
how do you euthanize such large sentient animals? method wise that is.
I think they were given an injection. I didn't stay for that part of the procedure. If you like I can give my husband a call at his lab and find out for sure.
I just called my husband. He said the whales were juvenile sperm whales and though the news reported they were euthanized, they were not. They were too large and actually just died on their own. With smaller whales, they do use an injection with a very large hypodermic needle. The use the same fluid that a vet uses only in much larger quantity.
thank you. I just found an abstract that said essentially the same thing.
although it also said that lancing and sometimes explosives are still used on occasion. I can't imagine those methods being used here in the states.
I don't know if you have ever seen this video but it is interesting and yes, funny.
I just called my husband. He said the whales were juvenile sperm whales
They were spanking their minnows?
dementia.
Can't wait until he is no longer in the saddle.
The World will celebrate.
So when the dolphins say: "So long, and thanks for all the fish" ... they weren't kidding.
... when researchers discover that submarines disrupt whale migration patterns or something - in other words, if we'd left the whales alone, we'd be fine.
There's a good book, "The Control of Nature" by John McPhee, published in 1989, that tells about what happens when humans try to step in and mess with the natural course of events in nature.
and aim it straight at Scalia, Roberts and Alito until their ears bleed.
Seriously. And what now can be done about this.
"Our dead never forget this beautiful world that gave them being. They still love its verdant valleys, its murmuring rivers, its magnificent mountains, sequestered vales and verdant lakes and bays, and ever yearn in tender fond affection over the lonely hearted living, and often return from the happy hunting ground to visit, guide, and console, and confort them."
Chief Seattle
How sad it is that in our anthrocentric arrogance humans have appointed themselves monarchs of the world they live in with their fellow creatures as little more than expendable and exploitable serfs. We have crippled and compromised our world with the selfish belief that all other creatures serve us and on that premise, we can exploit them with impunity.
Why on earth we would want to harm these inoffensive creatures who simply want to live their lives in peace is cruel and unconscionable. The Supreme Court explicitly stated here that national security is an absolute priority over the well being of other creatures that inhabit our planet---whose numbers we have decimated almost to the point of extinction in our insensitive foolishness. And in our unbridled quest of "prosperity" and "progress" we are paradoxically destroying the earth on which the very foundations of that premise exist.
As John Muir said about the redwoods:
"God has cared for these trees, saved them from drought, disease, avalanches, and a thousand tempests and floods. But he cannot save them from fools."
...However destruction goes on and on and on. Words are empty. Action is everything.
The problem is that people actually believe that "god" had given man the right to rule over the Earth. It says so right in the Bible.
"
liberalDemocrats now control two of the three estates of the federal government"FIFY
and what does your comment have to do with the plight of the whales and our precious war machine?
and why is that wrong ...explain ? When the republicans were in the same "saddle" it was okay for you i guess.This is a true hypocrisy
is your country truly insane? what the hell are your politicians thinking?!
Please be rational. A country can't be insane. But the supreme court which was deliberately stacked against all things innocent and deserving of being left unmolested IS insane.
You know as well as the rest of us *fuck nature* is worldwide phenomenon when there's money and power to be made/had. Your country included, wherever that is.
What i ment was : your politicians/supreme court judges ;) sorry
Our country is one of the most "green" countries in Europe and environmentaly solid.We have densely populated forrests and other natural wealth.
Our politicians dont dare to make such a moove,but certain corporate lawyers do (a french concrete firm polluted a river and the air arround it)... and sometimes our politicians did play dumb about it (because our laws have quite a lot of holes).
Our problem is the slow procedures in the Court...it takes years for even a small case.Let alone a big one.
Save the Navy, Fuck the Earth!
We are getting a new commander-in-chief; not as good as a rule they have to follow regardless of who is prez but surely he can order the military to cease and desist this? Got to put pressure on him.
But I wonder how that works. What power does the president have against a supreme court decision. (never mind how the bush cabal ignored sc decisions when it suited them).
If Obama is commander in chief couldn't he overrule the sc in matters military? Let's have a real discussion about how to stop this and what we can do about it.
As Commander in Chief, he should be able to issue a military order straight down the line.
I mean, if Rumsfeld and Cheney could order people to be tortured, you can't tell me that the President can't order the Navy to stop sonar exercises off California.
This just sickens me.
I've been following this charade since it was called "ATOC" and it was attempted to be sold to the public as - wait for it - experiments to determine the extent of global warning. At one of the public meetings they were forced to endure I sat next to some "scientists" who actually thought that's what it was. It was painfully obvious to this civilian at least that this was going to be an oceanic sonar device, I could only guess that the "scientists" were so looking forward to the pittance they'd receive to do their "research" that any rationality was overtaken. Either that or they weren't much "scientists" at all.
I tried to find out when these tests were to be done (they would only publish the schedule until AFTER the tests were completed), I wanted to privately finance sticking an underwater microphone in the water when they were going off. That was another clue that this was a strictly military op.
There is NO doubt, these sonar pings are fucking with the entire ocean - not just whales. I'm probably alone in this but I would sacrifice this entire country to save the oceans. If you want to talk about "thinking about the children" a stable ocean is the only thing that's going to pull us out of our death spiral. After all, when was the last time this country was attacked by a submarine? (A: WWII)
I wonder if they ever published their global warming conclusions?
I seriously question what benefit this "testing' and "research" yields or is expected to yield. The Navy already knows that its sonar system works. That has already been proved. What is the purpose of continued and seemingly endless testing and research of an already known technology? What are they trying to study? And, why do it in areas where there are populations of marine animals that are tortured by it, and in which it causes serious problems including mass beachings which have been observed on many occasions already? Some questions need to be asked about this program to determine if it is valid and whether or not it should be allowed to continue, especially in times when taxpayers are already taking loans out on multiple future generations in an attempt to fix problems our economy currently finds itself having. Questions like these?
What is being studied?
What harm is being done to the marine animals affected by it?
Is there any way that this research can be simulated so that sonar doesn't have to be blasted into the ocean?
What goals and objectives does the Navy have in mind when it conducts this research?
Are there other ways to achieve these goals rather than stressing the maritime environment with noise pollution that is extremely destructive?
I agree with you when you say that a stable ocean is the only thing that's going to pull us out of our death spiral. But, I would add that saving rain forests is also necessary. A good place to start healing the planet would be to repair the damage that we have done and continue to do in our oceans. If the oceans die. We will too. It may seem funny and silly to some people that hurting and killing whales is something that is necessary and something that we have to do. But, I would argue that if we continue to cause whales (and probably other species as well) (there was recently a gigantic squid mass beaching on the coast of Oregon that may also have been caused by sonar experimentation) to commit suicide and their populations collapse irretrievably, it's only a matter of time until the whole system collapses. Then there won't be any reason to "need" sonar any more because we won't be able to live much longer in a world that no longer has any life in its oceans, or on its lands.
I cringe every time I see this ... I realize that in this political environment a 6.7% as opposed to 2.4% margin of victory(between Bush's win in 2004 and Obama's this year according to Wikipedia)is significant and maybe even stunning but I wish "my team" would not use this particular term. I felt the current administration was way out of line using that term in 2004 and I don't feel that an extra 4.3% puts the democratic party in a position to claim it for ourselves. I realize the term "mandate" does not directly speak to the size of the victory but I feel it implies that the vast majority is behind the holder. I think the best thing we could do is be humble about our victory and concentrate on the task at hand ... a new (and more constitutional) direction for the our country. I am interested in other opinions on this!
Yeah, mandate does sound a tad...
Homoerotic.
That is a weird word.
As is mandrake.
Navy gets all-clear from Supreme Court to
harmkill whalesSite-monitors:
There, fixed it for you.
The thing is, there are computer simulators that make this type of training moot, for the most part.
To quote a demotivation poster from Despair.com:
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
yeah, they test nuclear weapons designs without actually having to activate a device.
all done with massive supercomputers and other simulations.
Homo Sapiens is supposed to be the most intelligent species on the face of the planet. Yet is the only species that will go out of it's way to kill it's own kind and will knowingly destroy the very environment that is relied upon for survival. The oceans are dying right before our very eyes, and in this case for what? To make it easier to kill our own kind and destroy an environment that is necessary for our survival. Well we can always look on the bright side, we're great at multitasking. Even funnier, the name 'homo sapiens' is latin for wise men.
and the navy people who advocate this type if practice should be put in a room with incredibly loud, high-pitched sounds, without let up and see if they like it. Maybe, only then, they will begin to understand how much we are torturing these animals. Oh, I forgot, torture is important for the war against terror...silly me.
and the other judges who voted this way. This country can't continue to abuse the other creatures we share the world with like this. Can you imagine what you would do if your ears were being blasted by sounds that literally drove you crazy? You would also beach yourself to get away from such torture. That's what Americans need to realize, that by doing these sonar tests in this way, the american Navy is torturing these animals and now we have proof that it causes mass beachings, mass suicide. It cannot be allowed to continue. The Navy should, if it wants to continue to train like this, find a way to do so that doesn't harm animals. And it should get help in doing this from independent scientists who would not be politically swayed to allow practice that continues to be damaging and deadly to these marine animals.
Unfortunately, the only likely remedy for this kind of abuse would be a wholesale change of Supreme Court personnel. It seems doubtful that hateful justices like Scalia and Thomas will ever voluntarily leave the court, especially if their successors would be appointed by a Democratic president (not to mention a Marxist terrorist).
The humane thing would be to hope for a philosophical epiphany fest, but that's never going to happen. Each day I quietly "hope" that Scalia, Thomas, Roberts, and Alito will all succumb to an overwhelming need or desire to do something else. I don't really care what the source is*, but the world definitely needs a big change in the American Supreme Court.
*The exception is the use of violence to effect change. I categorically oppose that.
Since Obama is commander in chief couldn't he override the sc since he is commander of the military and trumps the dickwads on the SC?
He could resolve an environmental (wholesale torment and slaughter of animals) issue and through his military clout, could he not?
and to answer Ohreally@61
regarding "The exception is the use of violence to effect change. I categoricaly oppose that."How about Sabotage! Sabotage can be effective. I suppose I also cannot "categorically" oppose violence when it comes to intervention.
Big deal! The US has consistently killed more whales each year than any other nation in the world and has been doing it for decades. Spare us the hypocracy.
so by broadening this "activity" its okay,but pointing out is hypocrisy? i hope i understood you wrong...
And yes,its a fucking big deal because in a decade or so there will be no whales arround!
I know this aint probably IT...but i heard that O.N.I. calls submarines as "whales" ,right? Just a thought...
Fuck the Navy,save the whales.
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