Obama's next big political battle: Immigration reform
By David Neiwert Thursday Apr 09, 2009 1:00pm
Pat Buchanan is promising a "bloodbath." Brad Blakeman is vowing that Republicans will line up against it en masse. But according to the New York Times, President Obama is planning to push for comprehensive immigration reform this year anyway:
Mr. Obama will frame the new effort — likely to rouse passions on all sides of the highly divisive issue — as “policy reform that controls immigration and makes it an orderly system,” said the official, Cecilia Muñoz, deputy assistant to the president and director of intergovernmental affairs in the White House.
Mr. Obama plans to speak publicly about the issue in May, administration officials said, and over the summer he will convene working groups, including lawmakers from both parties and a range of immigration groups, to begin discussing possible legislation for as early as this fall.
Some White House officials said that immigration would not take precedence over the health care and energy proposals that Mr. Obama has identified as priorities. But the timetable is consistent with pledges Mr. Obama made to Hispanic groups in last year’s campaign.
He said then that comprehensive immigration legislation, including a plan to make legal status possible for an estimated 12 million illegal immigrants, would be a priority in his first year in office. Latino voters turned out strongly for Mr. Obama in the election.
The legislation that Obama favors, in fact, sounds pretty familiar:
In broad outlines, officials said, the Obama administration favors legislation that would bring illegal immigrants into the legal system by recognizing that they violated the law, and imposing fines and other penalties to fit the offense. The legislation would seek to prevent future illegal immigration by strengthening border enforcement and cracking down on employers who hire illegal immigrants, while creating a national system for verifying the legal immigration status of new workers.
If this sounds an awful lot like the immigration-reform legislation, promoted by then-President Bush, that died in 2007 because Rush Limbaugh's flying monkeys descended upon it, that's because largely it is. In other words, it's not very different from what a Republican President recently proffered -- but which died at the hands of the rabid nativist wing of his party.
So there was Pitchfork Pat today on MSNBC's Morning Joe:
They will face a bloodbath if he tries try to legalize 12 million illegal aliens when the unemployment rate is rising, and it is huge among working-class Americans.
Republican strategist Brad Blakeman came on MSNBC today to discuss it, and said Republicans will line up against it because: "It's just bad policy." One wonders if he thought so back in 2007.
He went on to suggest that John McCain, who's championed this kind of legislation for many years, may be the lone Republican this time out:
Blakeman: John McCain is not going to be able to push this legislation through, because the Republicans are going to rally and unite, as well as I believe independents -- and blue-collar Democrats. Their jobs are going to be threatened.
And Nora, I'll make a prediction: We're going to be in double-digit unemployment in this country in the summer. The President claims to unveil this plan and have it done in the first year. Well, that's going to be awful hard to do when millions of Americans are out of work, and inflation is creeping up, and our economy isn't doing well. And he is now going to legalize 12 million illegal aliens and give them the rights that workers in this country should be having? It isn't going to work.
Well, at least the argument this time out is about employment and not about "Reconquista" or leprosy or crime -- which means there can be a reasonable debate. But Blakeman's argument runs aground on a very simple reality: it is immigrants' illegal status that undermines Americans' working wages.
Employers are able to get away with paying lower wages when they have workers who live under threat of deportation. Ending that situation, and helping these immigrants obtain the ordinary rights of citizenship, will actually play a key role in America's economic recovery. Because, as Time's Nathan Thornburgh noted a couple of years ago, immigration holds the key to the future economic competitiveness of the United States: "For all the stresses of immigration, it is the only industrialized nation with a population that is growing fast enough and skews young enough to provide the kind of workforce that a dynamic economy needs."
It's a classic rising-tide-lifts-all-boats scenario: By helping the immigrants already here find a path to citizenship -- which in turn makes them less vulnerable to the exploitation that hurts everyone except the exploiters -- while making the system of immigration built on rational economic needs instead of xenophobic ethnic fears, Americans will be helping themselves, too.
As Frank Sharry at America's Voice observed:
Moreover, the version of immigration reform that is likely to be debated this year will focus primarily on cracking down on bad actor employers who violate immigration, labor, and tax laws, combined with the legalization of workers and families already contributing and living here in the United States. This approach will lift wages for American and immigrant workers alike, enhance tax fairness and boost revenues, and create a level playing field for honest employers. The majority of Americans believe that earned citizenship combined with smart policies that will significantly reduce illegal immigration is the American way to solve this complex challenge.
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He's going to have a political battle with liberals and progressives over the rule of law.
Obama needs to open up the files and get to the bottom of the criminal activity of the Bush administration and stop helping them cover it up.
Obama has as much chance of beating down the illegal tide as I have flying to Pluto on a rocket using Bush's farts.
.
you had said float across the ocean using the hot air of hate radio, I'd believe you.
"The legislation would seek to prevent future illegal immigration by strengthening border enforcement and cracking down on employers who hire illegal immigrants, while creating a national system for verifying the legal immigration status of new workers."
This should be step number 1. Once this is completed, and only when it is completed, should any discussion of allowing illegal immigrants to complete citizenship be undertaken.
This illegal immigration continues because the companies LOVE illegals!!!! They're so dumb, you can order them to vote for ANYTHING!! They're not bad people, just people who don't have any $$$$ or hope left in other places, new to the US and the dirty rotten tricks of PUKIES.
CRACK DOWN ON THE ILLEGAL EMPLOYERS!!!!
first we hear Obama has entered into negotiations with Iran, rather than allowing them to irresponsibly create weapons by pretending to punish them via the "silent treatment". excellent news, so much more mature than the previous administration.
now we're hearing that Obama is working to ensure that millions of people who want to immigrate into America, because they yearn for our freedoms and prosperity, are able to do so ... just like we have for centuries.
I'm liking this new president more and more every day.
see part of the problem is smuggling illegal immigrants has become a mini industry down there in Mexico. These people are desperate and get swindled by these smuggling groups and organizations. "You give us our fee (usually their entire life savings) and we get you into the states and you got it made." They come here and get swindled further and ripped off by American business people.
They are ILLEGAL for gawd's sake. There are no guarantees here in these United States. According to our Federal laws, they have breached our sovereign borders. For a mini-example, how would you like it if some street people just barged through your front door and decided to stay for a while in your living room??
have no clue as to what they are up against and in most cases what they are doing when they cross that border.
your answer to the problem is..........???
I have an answer. Keep them out!!!
French. Irish. Italian. Dominicans. Cubans.
my great grandparents came over here illegally.
get over yourself
your great grandparents came over here illegally and.........?
This is the old, old, old, old, BAIT and SWITCH that now, Americans are hip to. The new immigrant is totally brain-washed by the schills sent back home to tell others about how great it is working for Lockheed, etc.
That's just what we need. Millions of unskilled workers migrating to the U.S. What that serves to do is nothing but create a large underclass which will be doing the menial work for those who can afford it. This is nothing but a blueprint for modern day slavery.
By the way What's your guess of the number of Professional people ( Doctors, Lawyers and etc. ) jumping the border fence in order to live in the United States?
this proposal is way beyond asinine.....
hell let em come!they are only doing jobs americans dont want anyway , drywall work, carpentry, concrete finnishing , tile laying, meat packing, poultry prossesing, house painting ect ect!
And they will take advantage of our schools, medical facilities and infrastructure and guess who foots the bill? California is bankrupt because we have ignored the problem for so many years.
the top 5% haven't paid their fair share of taxes, because property taxes were totally screwed up by some sort sighted ballot propositions, and because plenty of California corporations incorporated else where in order to reduce their taxation.
All those elements contribute far more to California's budgetary crisis than illegal immigrants. In fact, the pressure on the infrastructure by the top 5% and those tax-cheat corporations is also orders of magnitude larger than illegal immigrants'.
But by all means, if you need some weakling scapegoat, do feel free to use illegal immigrants. I heard they charge far less than American-grown scapegoats...
It's always about the money, isn't it....???
I'm sure that everyone of those 5 percenters would be happy to chip in for more taxes in already overtaxed State. I'd venture a guess that if you taxed that group 90%, it wouldn't be a drop in the bucket of debt relief.
except when you are pointed out the sheer hypocrisy of your drivel. At which point you become just a "concerned party under purely humanitarian and legal concerns" right?
I mean, you went from asking who foots the bill to not caring about money in less than 1/2 hour. LOL.
Besides, just because the middle class is over taxed, it doesn't meant that the top 5% aren't paying their fair share. It means, it is us in the middle class who have to pick their slack. Times must be so tough, that some of you have to shill for the top 5% on line for peanuts. Truly a pity if that is the case...
A little tongue in cheek.... Sorry you didn't catch it...
.
this statement "In fact, the pressure on the infrastructure by the top 5% and those tax-cheat corporations is also orders of magnitude larger than illegal immigrants'."
Are you saying that the top 5% of the taxpayers are using more than there fair share of the infrastructure?
In order to make that amount of money, they get to use more of the infrastructure. Economics 101, really.
Thats not what you said. " In fact, the pressure on the infrastructure by the top 5% and those tax-cheat corporations is also orders of magnitude larger than illegal immigrants' The way I read this statementt is your saying that the top 5 % of taxpayers and taxcheat corp. are using more then their fair share of driving on the roads, water use and sewer,ect. then the illegals. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like a strange statement.
These corporations have a significant physical presence, they require a lot of infrastructure to carry their business.
If they end up paying almost no taxes, and sometimes via gov contracts they get to have negative tax rates... and if you can't wrap your head around the concept that a corporation or a very wealthy individual will have a much larger foot print regarding infrastructure... then I would recommend some further schooling.
In the same sense, most multi millioners get very little in term of salary compensation. Instead most of their revenues come from investments. Which have a much lower tax rate, than the ones applied to people in the middle class. So indeed the very rich end up, in most cases, paying lower tax rates. Heck even Warren Buffet admited that he pays a lower tax rate than his secretary.
Honestly, those concepts are not *that* hard to understand, are they?
"These corporations have a significant physical presence, they require a lot of infrastructure to carry their business."
Most if not all communities require that any large building or "physical presence" pay for road, sewer, water and other utility improvements. In my State (no sales tax), the bigger the building, the bigger the property taxes.
"Instead most of their revenues come from investments" I wonder what they invest in? A business (which provides jobs), stocks (which invest in business, which provide jobs).
"and if you can't wrap your head around the concept that a corporation or a very wealthy individual will have a much larger foot print regarding infrastructure" Still makes no sense, their "footprint" is still the same as anyone elses, plus they pay higher taxes then the 40 to 50% of the population which pay no taxes at all.
"and if you can't wrap your head around the concept...Honestly, those concepts are not *that* hard to understand, are they?" No reason to start with the snide attacks.
"then I would recommend some further schooling." Thanks for the recommendation, I have always believed one is never to old to learn.
If they were on the books and made legal so they paid their fair share of payroll and income taxes you wouldn't have a problem with this plan?
Refer to the "slavery" bit in the entry above...
asinine indeed. Also, If this amnesty bill goes through, and that's what it is. Amnesty, no questions asked. We will have a flood of them coming up. What does that do to our already shitty school system. You want your kids going to a school where they are out numbered 3 to 1. Yeah I bet they will get taught real well that way. We need to close our border lock stock and barrel. Then deal with the ones here.
Yep, thank our 1%ers for this. Capitalism's main problem has always been lack of slaves.
Ellis Islands a museum these days I believe.
Have no fear, Glenn Beck and Gov. Rick Perry (Texas) are all over this tonight on Beck's show.
I don't know what kind of party they will throw to protest this. The tea bags will be too soggy by the time they get their strategy together.
by then?
task of drying out my Kool Aid and returning the flakes to the little paper pouch.
to restore the rule of law.
Actually, resolving this issue is very much about "restoring the rule of law." Because the rule of law has been seriously degraded (as it has been in the war on drugs) by the ongoing existence of unenforceable and unjust laws.
Restoring the rule of law means not flouting the Constitution and also enforcing existing laws (e.g., against torture).
In this case changing the laws to conform with reality makes considerable sense.
Theyallsuck........... I'm sure with you there. Where is habeus corpus, what about the 'quaint' CONSTITUTION???, what about that HORROR the so-called 'Patriot Act'?????
proudly progressive. The common tactic of both sides is if there's a problem either throw money at it or make a new law. For the most free country on earth we have the most laws of any nation ever, a estimated 10,000 federal plus state and local. And a higher percentage of our population in prison than any other country.
There is a hell of a verbal fight going on on Hardball right now between Lawrence O'Donnell and Pat Buchanan about whether the President should speak at Notre Dame. Pat just told Lawrence to shut up. If these two were in the same room, fists would be flying. They are both mad as hell.
All these religious nuts are barking up the wrong tree with this Notre Dame "controversy"...
Hopefully C&L can grab a clip of it. Lawrence was making sense and Pat was about to burst a blood vessel. Both men were sincerely angry and it showed.
:D
It's not about future immigration. We're sealing off the border by creating a drug war (Drugs have been coming across the border for 70 years. Coincidence that a drug war, being fought with American weapons, has been started down there only recently? Hello, Black Ops). The drug war was created in order to give a PC reason to seal off the border and prevent further immigration now that there is a recession which prevents us from absorbing more illegal workers without risking riots of unemployed people in cities. Do you see how many people are showing up to board buses for job fairs? How hard do you think it would be to radicalize a bunch of people going to their 10th job fair with no result if they believe more illegals are coming across the border? Now that jobs are scarce, corporations have enough Americans who will gladly work for peanuts and be cowed into thinking that any shitty, poorly-paid job is better than no job at all. The GOP and its corporate henchmen have convinced enough Americans that unions are communist conspiracies breaking our economy.
Obama is going to propose legalizing the aliens that are already here so we can identify them and tax them. You can't round up 12 million unidentified people and deport them. We don't have the resources. So we're going to keep the 12 million who are already here and stop the flow of further immigration using the "drug war" as an excuse to call the National Guard down to the border and seal it off.
There is nothing else that can be done. Illegals already here will pay a fine and that will be that.
This is not about bringing in anothe "gazillion new people" from abroad as Hairlip is trumping it to sound like, rather this is about giving people the opportunity to further participate in and of our system, let us not forget that they (12 million) already live among us, and, do we really know who they are?, or, are we judging them by el rushbo and co. standards?
This is all about forming the North American Union with open borders.
Oh puh-LEEZ! Not that old chestnut again.
Go adjust your little tin foil hat and go back to lgf.
Mark this date on your calendar and of our exchange.
There has been talk of this concept for at least twenty years and more. For instance, do you know of the Trans-Texas corridor?? Land has been in the acquisition process for a decade or more. Google the term and you can see the proposed route which stretches from Laredo, TX to Omaha, NE.
There are other corridors in work also, a couple that reach all the way to Saskachewan.
The Trans-Texas is a limited access highway (not for public use).
I will certainly mark this on my calendar. And having lived in SE TX, I heard WAY too much of that crap. It's a myth, just like "Aztlan" is (or do you also believe immigration is just a means for Mexico to take back the SW?)
Fair enuf...
You might take a look at the entry I made at the end of this column, which explains the proposal a little further. But you can still do research on the web, if you choose..
BTW
I lived in central Texas in the early 80's and we heard rumbling about a new highway coming through central TX then, but nothing surfaced.
And Sierra.... this is not a myth.
before Obama pees away all his political capital?
No, Obama has bigger fish to fry.
You have to wait until the next president.
Good luck.
And be sure to vote for more and better Democrats!
more then once!!!!
Which is, Dems are good, Repubs are bad, just park your brain.
If you buy this shit, all is good. Dems are in control. Repubs are in retreat.
My suggestion: look for the exit.
You know, why don't YOU exit? All you ever do is come on here and bad mouth everything. You must be one sad sack to be around.
dont pay any attention to the man behind the curtain these folks need a wake up call!
How'd you know I was in the shower??
my computers equiped with a camera~
It better have a wide angle lens if you wanna see ALL of me, if ya know what I mean (har,har.)
so, then your saying thoes new shipping ports being built in mexico are being made to bypass us ports for purposes of eliminateing americas port inspections of cargos and for the real purpose of useing mexican truckers instead of us union truckers?
I'd go to war with you.
Keep on truckin'.
thnx they all suck , i love your name !it pretty well covers every thing!
much action (if any at all) anytime soon... LOL.
famous last words!
I am quite certain I will have plenty more words before I croak. And you can rest assured they won't be wasted on replying a perma-contrarian like "they all suck."
;-)
maby youd just prefer the inbreeding here with no controversy at all! group thinking as it were ,
The game plan on this blog is to enforce orthodoxy.
No 9-11 discussion of any substance.
No Obama criticism of any substance.
sounds dull!
Make the message dull.
Keep all Americans dull.
Dull is good.
Vote for dull.
voted for dull 8 and 4 years ago.
Or was that voted for stupid?
They are part and parcel of the proposed system.
To see what the elites are planning, you don't have peek through keyholes or plant a spy under the table. Just read their published reports.
The words most frequently used to describe their goals are "economic integration," "labor mobility," "free movement of goods, services and people across open borders," and "harmonization" of regulations.
The Council on Foreign Relations published a major report on May 17, 2005, only two months after the Security and Prosperity Partnership (SPP) was announced by President Bush, Mexico's Vicente Fox, and Canada's Paul Martin in Waco on March 23, 2005. The CFR document explaining SPP's goals and methodology was posted on the U.S. State Department website, thereby confirming its authenticity.
The CFR report explains that the three SPP amigos at Waco "committed their governments" to "Building a North American Community" by 2010 with a common "outer security perimeter," "the extension of full labor mobility to Mexico," allowing Mexican trucks "unlimited access," "totalization" of illegal aliens into the U.S. Social Security system, and "a permanent tribunal for North American dispute resolution."
The prestigious Center for Strategic & International Studies published a report in 2007 called "North American Future 2025 Project." It advocates "economic integration," the "free flow of people across national borders," and "policies that integrate governments."
the SPP was full of good sound proposals. And your problem with it is what?
...but if you're pushing for us to vote Third Party, you're going to have to wait until the other two parties are roughly the same.
For all Obama, Clinton, and Reid's faults, the parties are still very, very different. So I'm going to keep voting for democrats.
Canards! Aren't those ducks?
Canard #1: They don't pay their taxes! Yeah, they do. Sales taxes, property taxes, gas taxes. They pay income taxes, and social security taxes (none of which they will ever claim) Employers are required to take out income taxes and SS and deposit it in the bank. Since in many cases the SS cards are phony, the money deposited goes straight into the general treasury. It doesn't mean they don't pay it; they just never get it back.
Canard #2: They're taking our jobs! Sorry, not your jobs unless you apply for them. I didn't sent my kids to college to get a degree in picking lettuce, nor do I imagine many of you did. Also, they are already here and are doing these jobs. We're not giving them more of the same. It is the fact that they are illegal that allows unscrupulous employers to pay rock bottom wages and take those jobs away from good union members.
Let's solve the problem, rather than let our hidden bigotry make our decisions for us!
...for a while there I was thinking common sense was hard to come by, furthermore, let me pose a question here, if they are already here, unable to get any kind of social assistance ,help or what have you, meaning probably (most likely) gainfully employed, how is it that they will take away our jobs?, people don't live off just air, do they?
why dont you come to cali, where at one time, construction work was the pathway to the middle class...now its a haven for low income, illegal workers
dont take jobs? ask a dry waller
nothing to do with bigotry at all
everything to do with the corporatists
and while they may pay some taxes, they dont cover the amount of services that they get
what is that you say? illegals dont get services? their children do...and companies are more than happy to show these people how to use the system
"why dont you come to cali, where at one time, construction work was the pathway to the middle class...now its a haven for low income, illegal workers"
Damn illegal immigrants! It was all then part of their evil plot to destroy the American middle class, bastards!
Of course, it could not have been the fact that Americans shot themselves in the foot with their penchant for quick short term profit over all else, right? We would never do that.
Wanna stop illegal immigration? Enforce labor laws, and prosecute the employers. Also teach the rest of the country to get used to live with less for more.
It's almost never someone from Texas (like me) or Cali that says (in english) "they don't take our jobs' or "they do the job nobody wants"
seen the want ads lately? I think americans want them. and this statement"Employers are required to take out income taxes and SS and deposit it in the bank." again not comming from someone living in a border state. Ever hear of getting paid cash?? There are plenty social programs paid for by american tax payers that non-residents take full advantage of. Another thing most people here from Mexico send a good part of thier checks back to Mexico. taking it straight out of the system. Where are taxes paid on cash sent to mexico?
In the town where I used to live I was told my son could not start pre k because there was a waiting list of spanish speaking kids that went first AND I HAVE A MEXICAN LAST NAME AND WAS BORN HERE. So Robby Jr. had to wait for a year. Now that is a true story and how could that be ok????
I am the enemy.
I'm not. Check your ammo. And your food supply.
No, we're just curious if you are ever postive about anything. We grow tired of constantly negative people. (Seriously), is there anything about this country and/or our government that you find good? I'm not being snarky, just honestly curious.
dont let it get to yah they all suck, why sometimes even i get accused of pointing out bad things here , it upsets thoes who still dont have you on thier ignore user list!
your supply of Prozac. The end is nigh.
where it's due. I checked my food supply. You were right! Two of my tomatoes went bad.
a simpler way for you actually do or say nothing, and still think you're helping. The condescending tone doesn't help either.
I think your heart is in the right place, alas... your routine gets a bit tiring, as other posters have pointed out.
i'm a liberal that is/has been against illegal immigration. first it's illegal,secondly these people are often treated inappropriately, third these people are a net cost liability/shift to certain communities,fourth they undercut labor legal businesses and fifth many countries of the world don't just let people in their country. i don't agree with the argument that past relatives/friends came here illegally so therefore everyone can come in. i know this isn't a popular opinion regarding this issue. i spoke with a landscaping business owner up in the tahoe area. this person said companies with illegal workers in his business will work just to buy a few meals for the day.
Well said. But it seems that most of the thrust of discussion related to immigration is on economics and the consequences of illegals using our "systems."
Not once has the issue of allegiance to our country or the procedures to become naturalized been addressed. In short if you want to live here and become a citizen, then you must take those steps. I realize that we aren't prepared at this time to administer to the hordes that have descended upon us, but still it has to be a consideration. Otherwise, our sovereignity means nothing.
I understand the drive to support ones family and the betterment of self, but it can't be at the expense of diminishing all of the principles on which this country was founded.
no doubt. many liberals in their debate regarding illegal/undocumented workers/immigrants go directly to prejudice. this is NOT about being prejudice. that's negative framing that's NOT on topic.
like i said it's illegal. come to this country legally. let's have some respect for ourselves and our country. i understand these people put into social security and other programs but overall this issue is a NET liability. do some research regarding california: educational system requires bilingual teachers most of these schools have free lunch program,prison system and healthCare system. many of these people don't have healthCare insurance and/or auto. insurance. illegal/undocumented workers are subsidized by the u.s. TAX payer. our porous borders were/have been a strategy to grow the population but also to undercut labor.
Anytime there's a choice to be made between American citizens and some group of foreign people, most liberals will go berserk in defense of the latter. In fact, if you say ANYTHING in support of American citizens over a foreign people, liberals will label you a racist. It doesn't matter if the foreign people you're talking about are lily-white caucasians, they will still condemn you for being a racist. In the liberal mindset, American citizens are simply a lower form of life than foreign people, and are deserving of nothing but contempt. (I should point out here that I'm not conservative in any sense. I'm a progressive who is strongly supportive of progressive taxation, corporate regulation, gay rights, abortion rights, gun control, etc.) How liberals have been programmed to think this way, I'm not sure, but again, if you're going to defend Americans over foreign people, expect to be called a racist.
What's been going on the last decade or so in particular is an absolute betrayal of the American people by our government . Open the borders wide open to illegals ,no law enforcement , no penalty to their employers , an open invitation . It's absolute bullshit , there are so many foreigners here now that I sometimes wonder where the hell I am and I have lived here in the PNW all of my life . I am not with out compassion or understanding , I am not against lawful immigration , but the fact is the illegals are affecting our lives , there are far too many . It used to be they would take jobs that Americans didn't want or could not afford to take , that used to be true , but that is not true anymore , now you will find them in every trade and business at the expense of decent paying jobs for our own . It's absolute horse shit , a lie , that they are a necessity and take jobs that American citizens will not take or do not want , this is no longer the case . The corporations , business and big home builders are simply getting cheap labor at our expense , what once were decent paying jobs for an American are now replaced by cheap foreign labor and the rich profit all the more and get that much richer . What is the difference between this and out sourcing jobs to another country ? In fact it's the same thing . I could go on and talk about crime and the cost to society and not only in dollars , but I'll refrain . Again, I am not against legal immigration , I am not without compassion or understanding , far from it , but this out of control illegal immigration permitted by our friggin politicians , by our government , is an absolute betrayal of it's own people . The fact that now with millions of us unemployed and losing our jobs , Obama and the government talks about amnesty for the illegals and has to date not done one meaningful thing to shut down or curb the flow of illegals coming into this country is an outrage . Many here will be pissed of or not agree which is OK , but let me ask you this , when there is no distinguishable difference between life and society here and that of Mexico , when there are only the very wealthy families and then "we the peasants" , will you be happy then ? This is where we are heading , not only because of illegal immigration but it is a big and growing factor . I am for controlled immigration but enforce the laws , be practical and take care of our country and Americans first before we try to save the world ... and sink our own boat in the process , for the politicians it's about politics and it's about votes not about compassion and they themselves set this situation up by opening the flood gates didn't they ? The F'ers created a real dilemma for themselves and for us .
I'm with you. I have great compassion for the illegals. So-called 'Globalization' has impoverished THEM first. They are showing us what CORPORATISM, FACISM, does. Drive American wages into the toilet to up their profit margin.
Look at Guatamala. The native people don't own any of their own land, thanks to Amerika's colonization and the corporations pay the merceneries to massacure those exact same people. Of course, we all know that the 'conservative' President of Guatamala is hand-picked by the corporatists. Corporatism has it's private campaign to wipe out the American worker - documented elsewhere.
But I am for sealing the border. With all the troops that Obama is going to be bringing back we should have more than enough manpower to do so. Yes it is against the law to use military people to enforce the law in the U.S but it is legal for them to defend our borders.
And I feel that the illegals here should be deported. And I do agree that it will be impossible to round up all estimated 12 million. But just because its impossible does that mean we shouldn't try? It's also impossible to catch all the drug dealers, rapists and murderers,robbers and even speeders also, should they just get a free pass because it is?
In CA in 2005 hospitals spent a bit over 1 billion on illegal immigrants that was not reimbursed by federal or state government. The state of Texas and local hospital districts spent an estimated $677 million to provide health care to illegal immigrants in a year.
It may sound divisive BUT,
There are many vital issues to address. EFCA, Health care, continuing economic trouble waters in a service economy, Wars, constitutional rights that were usurped, American manufacturing, Trade imbalances, wealth imbalances and so on.
Illegal immigration needs reform and has required attention since Carter at the least.
There is a political capital price republicans will extract over this. As with all of the issues.
I look at the wanning support of EFCA and it concerns me. The money, lobbying, opposition negative plaguing might not withstand with all of these issue. We can see there is a tight wire to get these legislations passed.
Even Dems in congress are waning just over there 2010 election trying to impersonate republicans.
And what sort of support from all those union auto workers that could lose their pensions and jobs when they look at the treatment of Wall Street and their bonus retention of compete failures.?
I realize Obama is young and has great support. He can do more than one thing at a time. I just want him to clear his plate. Big Business and the inter national corporations are funding opposition. Hell, Wall Street bbail out banks (who do not hire union workers) are using bail out funds to support union opposition(s).
I am a centrist democrat and a legal United States citizen. I believe with all my heart and soul that we should not reward illegal immigration. Obama's policy encourages illegal immigration by those who now are allowed to hope that if they can somehow get to this country and persist they will become citizens. I am not aware of any other crime that is rewarded over time for such criminal persistence.
I am a democrat and happy with all that Obama has done so far, but the immigration issue is another thing. It is unfair to immigrants that come to this country legally and to the many Americans who family came over legally in the past or whose ancestors were forced here through slavery, or whose ancestors were killed after European invasion of the Americas hundreds of years ago. It is also unfair to increase an ethic group's numbers and power via illegal immigration. If we are going do this then all ethic groups should have the same opportunity to come over here illegally in the same numbers as the Hispanics and increase there numbers (wait seas and oceans separate them -- not just a border).
In other words I am with the republicans on this one and I think you will find most Americans are.
I think our borders should be protected better and if we need to use the National guard or the military we should do so.
Rampant population growth threatens our economy and quality of life. Immigration, both legal and illegal, are fueling this growth. I'm not talking about environmental degradation or resource depletion. I'm talking about the effect upon rising unemployment and poverty in America.
I should introduce myself. I am the author of a book titled "Five Short Blasts: A New Economic Theory Exposes The Fatal Flaw in Globalization and Its Consequences for America." To make a long story short, my theory is that, as population density rises beyond some optimum level, per capita consumption of products begins to decline out of the need to conserve space. People who live in crowded conditions simply don’t have enough space to use and store many products. This declining per capita consumption, in the face of rising productivity (per capita output, which always rises), inevitably yields rising unemployment and poverty.
This theory has huge implications for U.S. policy toward population management, especially immigration policy. Our policies of encouraging high rates of immigration are rooted in the belief of economists that population growth is a good thing, fueling economic growth. Through most of human history, the interests of the common good and business (corporations) were both well-served by continuing population growth. For the common good, we needed more workers to man our factories, producing the goods needed for a high standard of living. This population growth translated into sales volume growth for corporations. Both were happy.
But, once an optimum population density is breached, their interests diverge. It is in the best interest of the common good to stabilize the population, avoiding an erosion of our quality of life through high unemployment and poverty. However, it is still in the interest of corporations to fuel population growth because, even though per capita consumption goes into decline, total consumption still increases. We now find ourselves in the position of having corporations and economists influencing public policy in a direction that is not in the best interest of the common good.
The U.N. ranks the U.S. with eight third world countries - India, Pakistan, Nigeria, Democratic Republic of Congo, Bangladesh, Uganda, Ethiopia and China - as accounting for fully half of the world’s population growth by 2050. It's absolutely imperative that our population be stabilized, and that's impossible without dramatically reining in immigration, both legal and illegal.
If you’re interested in learning more about this important new economic theory, I invite you to visit my web site at OpenWindowPublishingCo.com where you can read the preface, join in my blog discussion and, of course, purchase the book if you like. (It's also available at Amazon.com.)
Please forgive the somewhat spammish nature of the previous paragraph. I just don't know how else to inject this new perspective into the immigration debate without drawing attention to the book that explains the theory.
Pete Murphy
Author, "Five Short Blasts"
of largely European descent, whereas most of those crossing the border into the US illegally are of the First Nations and Mestizos, who have almost no say whatsoever in Mexico's politics. A situation the Mex Elite don't want to change.
So, despite them having had the financial wherewithal to create a social safety net of their own, using revenues from Gulf Coast oil development, they instead chose to keep the moolah for themselves..and use America the way Castro did with the Marielitos.
The Mex government must itself institute reforms necessary for the Mexican people to have a stake in their own country's development and growth. That's not likely to happen anytime soon, and the economic situation in the US is worsening conditions in Mexico. As demands for rebuilding the social safety net ripped into shreds by the Repugs become louder, so will demands that US workers take precedence over foreign trespassers. Which means that a situation similar to what happened along border States in the Great Depression takes place again, and waves of desperate Mexicans will be turned back.
Given the intransigence of the Mex Elite, the brazen actions of the drug cartels in practically becoming shadow governments themselves, (which can only happen under drug prohibition, so legalize the stuff, already!) and the worsening economy around the planet, we may see a revolution south of our border very soon, as all that pent-up frustration of the Mex unemployed explodes. And that cannot help but have a serious effect here for us.
FOOLKING itself picked Calderón. Good ol' Choicepoint helped dumb millions of unopened, uncounted ballots in the Mexico city dumb, and they were found and reported on. Look up ol' Choicepoint, like Diebold a cornorstone of CORPORATISM. PUKIES love them shadow gov. especially Cheney.
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