Rove joins O'Reilly rant: Only torture will save us from terrorists
By David Neiwert Thursday Jan 08, 2009 1:00pm
Bill O'Reilly devoted another Talking Points Memo segment last night to his new pet thesis that Barack Obama is going to make the nation vulnerable to terrorist attack by taking torture off the table, and then brought Karl Rove on to back it all up:
You know, when he gets behind that desk, and has the awesome responsibility of protecting our country, anybody who's chief executive of the United States is going to want to have the ability, in a time of a great crisis, to call upon enhanded interrogation techniques.
A little later, he closes with this:
Look, if you've taken techniques that have kept America safe and you discard them, you are putting the country at risk and you're going to have to bear the consequences of that.
OK, let me see if I can keep this all straight.
We're now getting advice on how to prevent a terrorist attack from "the Brain" of an administration that manifestly failed at that because it was asleep at the wheel on 9/11, am I right? And they're telling us the torture regime they installed in the interim is responsible for the lack of subsequent attacks afterward -- rather than making the likelihood of future attacks greater?
Karl Rove was a key player in an administration that, in the first eight months of its tenure, specifically undermined counterterrorism programs in an essentially political dismissal of such work as "a Clinton thing."
There was the Aug. 6, 2001, presidential daily briefing titled "Bin Laden determined to strike in US," which concluded that terrorists planned to attack us using airplanes. It was ignored.
There was that briefing George Tenet gave Condi Rice on the immensity of the threat, which both she and George W. Bush also ignored -- and then lied about doing so afterward. Indeed, Rice and the Bush administration ent to great measures to cover up their own incompetence.
There was the Hart-Rudman Commission report, which warned the White House in May 2001 that it needed to take serious steps to prevent a terrorist attack. The report was ignored.
So was Richard Clarke's memo of January 2001 warning of the terrorist threat.
And finally, there were the Bush White House's pre-9/11 actions on a pure policy level: "Attorney General John Ashcroft not only moved aggressively to reduce DoJ's anti-terrorist budget but also shift DoJ's mission in spirit to emphasize its role as a domestic police force and anti-drug force." The administration also shifted Department of Defense counter-terrorism funding into missile-defense-system programs.
And yet for all that record, everyone in the press -- most especially Bill O'Reilly -- gave the Bush administration a pass for its massive malfeasance on terrorism, and came to believe that the lack of subsequent attacks meant that suddenly this gang knew what it was doing.
Even though what it was doing entailed violating basic international war-crimes laws and stoking the flames of hatred for the United States. As the 2006 National Intelligence Estimate found, Bush's invasion-under-false-pretenses of Iraq has actually made it far more likely we will have to endure future terrorist attacks.
That report noted that "actions by the United States government that were determined to have stoked the jihad movement" included "the indefinite detention of prisoners at Guantánamo Bay and the Abu Ghraib prison abuse scandal."
In other words, Karl Rove and his Jet Set Junta made it far more likely that we're going to be hit by terrorists in the coming years, the credit going in part to misbegotten torture policies that have been proven ineffective and counterproductive. And calling an end to those policies will make us more vulnerable? Oh really?
And if such an attack happens, it will be Obama's fault, according to Bill O'Reilly. Because only Republicans get to skate when terrorists strike on their watch.
These people are not just crooks and liars. They're also insane.
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We have 3.5 years until we have to worry about the misleading opinions of tax cutting cheerleaders again.
(and apologies for using someone else's nom de guerre)
Bill-O, Rove, and the rest of the 'Bush Kept Us Safe' gang aren't going to vanish on January 21, anymore than we're becoming an Islamic Republic under Sharia Law.
We must continue to be vigilant. The lies are numerous, and they are repeatedly fed to a demographic that is already conditioned to obey. Think of it as a cult that is willing to lie, cheat, steal, even kill to protect the leaders who are feeding them shit.
As we all know, he didn't. 9/11 happened even though Richard Clarke presented the report about bin Laden's determination to attack on US soil, even though FBI agents in outposts across the country reported Saudi Arabians taking weird flying lessons.
O'Reilly and Rove clearly don't read newspapers, where intelligence officers have written op-ed pieces on how torture DOES NOT WORK (excuse my shouting). Instead, they have elicited better information by methods that are not breaking the Geneva Convention accords, which our country signed into law. We must return to our American ideals of following the laws and not torturing terrorists. We must act at every juncture as the country we say we are.
Shadowgm is right: we must continue to be vigilant and counteract these lies at every turn.
Will the media ever stop calling on failed pundits or policy makers to 'comment' on any and everything? Now we have Tom ('give it another six months')Friedman telling us what to do about the economy. And getting published and put on TV, why? Why would any sane person listen to him? I know he made a ton of money, but as I recall, he made it when Clinton was president. Unless he has managed to not lose anything in the last few months, screw him.
NO the media owners put the clowns on that spew their agenda , pssst IT WORKS
So many more important issues, and these two dumbfucks distract with how better to torture the poor brown folk...
Well, after decades of spreading evil throughout the world (supporting the overthrow of populist governments and supporting brutal dictatorships and outsourcing murder and torture) as foreign policy, it's refreshing to finally see evil being embraced in the light of day.
Why would terrorists want to waste time/effort to attack the US again?
They've achieved, with the help of bushco, the republicans, and the complicit dems everything they could have wished for and more.
Bottom Line.. The Terrorists Have Won. Realize that already.
i fully agree.
the terrorists ALL realized
what a dumb fuck bush is and
how easily he is maneuvered to
the depth of stupidity evidenced
by how far cheney has shoved his
hand/arm up bush's ass.
billo and rove should experience some of this
torture they promote. i would like to suggest
we stomp their balls, but that would also injure
their wives since they both enjoy prairie oyster
oral washing.
These people are as bad as you can imagine. Open up and look.
"But if they would do this, if they would stoop this low, to steal our White House, what else would they do? What else are they capable of, what else are they capable of? I want to know." - Michael Moore
It's too bad most people don't want to know. Because that's how they get away with their terrible crimes and frauds.
"The individual is handicapped by coming face to face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists." -- J. Edgar Hoover, former FBI director
torture??
is'nt that having to listen to these overblown morons?
is Glenn Greenwald stating the basic principles when considering the continuing cosmetics applied to the Bush crime spree.
Have you ever seen any bigger cowards then oliar and rove?
I don't get it these people talk about how they protected America when? What America are they talking about. Were we not attacked on 911? Who was in charge when we were attacked on 911?
So what have they protected us from?
Is there anyone stupid enough to believe that bush has kept us safe?
Who are you? I would love to know who believes bush has kept us safe?
If you are out there you are the biggest fool in the world.
But all republicans are fools, liars, idiots, and just plain greedy bastards!
the last line about repo's could'nt be truer
"Let us never tolerate outrageous conspiracy theories
concerning the attacks of September the 11th;
malicious lies that attempt to shift the blame away
from the terrorists, themselves, away from the guilty."
- President George W. Bush at the United Nations - November 10, 2001
“Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do. ”
- Rudy Giuliani.
Don't pussy foot around or these guys will get away with their crimes.
I wonder what that scumbag is doing in its current obscurity?
Narrow-bandwidth 'thinkers' like O'Reilly, and noxiously fawning courtiers like Rove might have difficulty processing the following observation...If terrorists are willing to die to perform their acts, why would the thought of mere torture make them reconsider the wisdom of carrying them out?
Torture didn't 'keep America safe', it made more people prone towards irrationally hating America and inclined to act heinously towards it, without fear of the consequences.
Can we stop caring what these assholes say? They don't matter anymore. It's best just to ignore them.
because if they do it means that they can't come after you for those same crimes? Hurry up and choke to death on an over priced piece of meat, you're wasting valuable air.
Just thinking about the fact that people look at Rove and believe the trash that comes out of his mouth... Don't they remember the Bush administration?
Here's a refresher course: http://tv1.com/playlists/123
...going to get taken off the air and placed in a jail cell with the other riff-raff where they belong?
but if that ever happens I hope there is torture involved for all the lies they've spewed, and I hope they never see the light of day or are allowed to use the airwaves for the noxious shit that comes from them and their ilk.
and in the spirit of the thing,I think we should waterboard him:not for any particular reason mind you,(although I'm certain he has all kinds of treacherous secrets to divulge)but just for fun,because you know..I don't care for him.
NOW, I got it...When Chimpy leaves DC on the 20th and goes to Dallas via Midland, THEN the pig farm in Crawdad becomes the new GWB think tank!!
Everyday is full, for Billo, Turdblossom, Limberger, Hannity the manatee, Hague, Palin, et. al. of clearing the brush that was replaced the night before and taking leisurely swims in the scum pond built especially for them.. That's the new Lie Machine !!! Now Cheeeney will only have one place to ship the KoolAide !!!
Ah, ain't it grand to be free.....
i personally could care less what these two have to say right or wrong. the both of them are full-time liars in my opinion.
Only traitors torture.
So is karl a traitor or patriot?
Gas bag bill what war did he earn any say?Karl?george?big fat dick?doug feith? wolfowitz?
I'm tired of these fucking cowards telling how we should operate in a invasion that's illegal.
How do we ever prevent any of these cowards, pee their panties, from offering any advice other than tea or coffee?
Why don't these sphincters do what they tell every one else to do, "If you don't support the Geneva conventions " get the congress to repeal our participation. Then get your ass' out to the nearest battle field ,put your life on the line for you stinking beliefs. Armchair warriors can ......
This is from my day to day bush calendar on this date in history.
"One year ago today, the time for excuse making has come to an end."
-President George Bush-
January 8, 2003
Nope those aren't typos. That is exactly what he said.
I have to wonder if BillO and Karl secretly want the country to be hit by terrorist again just so they can say, I told you so.
..but I think its more likely we will be hit than it is we won't. I think its very likely that billo and all the other right-wing pundit-iots will call for Obama's head when and if we are. In fact, I call it a slam-dunk.
I'm just hoping that with a new president maybe we won't be pissing off so many people and stop making them feel justified for attacking us.
Of course Billo wants to see America hit again. He probably sports a chubby everytime he thinks about it. And surfjac is most likely right, there is a very good chance that it just may happen. As good a chance as it was during Bushco's reign, post 9/11. If it were to happen though, I myself would feel a lot more confidence in Obama's leadership and ability to make the right decisions than what Bush's response was on that fateful day.
"Insane"? Oh no. They don't get that justification. These cold, calculating scumbags are fully aware of their actions.
People STILL pay attention to these thunderdolts. I know people (as I'm sure many of you do as well) who take O'Reilly's opinion to be gospel. The only thing they appreciate more than the "truth" he spews is when libs get all hot under the collar because they can't handle it. These people are allowed to own homes and guns, they're allowed to vote and raise children. And right now, they believe that what keeps America safe is being able to strap someone down and torture them until whoever they are tell us whatever it is they know that we want to know.
And if it turns out that they know nothing? Well, it's a small price to psy for freedom isn't it? I mean, a small price to pay for the people who aren't paying for it with pain, blood, sweat, disfigurement and nightmares.
Because THAT'S the thing no proponent of torture ever wants to discuss: What if you start torturing a suspected terrorist, and it turns out he knows nothing? Hell, what if it turns out HE'S NOE EVEN A TERRORIST?!?!?!
This always seems to get lose in any discussion about torture, it's always assumed the only reason we're torturing anybody is because they know something, we know they know and we've got to know by any means necessary. Gitmo's filled with thousands of people who know something, if only they'd tell us then we could let them go, and by "Let them go," I mean then officially try and convict them and send them back to their cells. But since they won't tell us what they know, we have to keep them in their cells anyway...and torture them. So some of them may just admit to knowing something, because then the imprisonment never ends, but at least the torture stops...
And this proves America is the greatest nation on Earth...HOW?
on the federal center in Oklahoma in 1995. Where was the right-wing outrage?
Then, on Bush's watch, the nutwing administrators ignored the high probability communicated via intel that foreign terrorist would carry through their plan to fly jetliners into skyscrapers.
All we got were scare tactics, color codes, and a rush to war on trumped up intel to fight the "war on terror" against a country that did nothing to us but suffered immeasurably due to our embargo.
A world, outside of the U.S. borders essentially sees this country as hypocritical because we espouse the rule of law but ignore international law. Potential terrorists are recruited easily on that basis alone, but add in the fact that we like to torture brown people who look like them. And we wait for the next attack so the wingnuts can blame an administration that was beyond their belief and hope a year ago.
Does anybody see something wrong with that picture?
Lets send Rove(TURD BLOSSOM) Bush Brain And O'Reilly down to Cuba for inhanced Questing and and the we can put Rove(TURD BLOSSOM) in an ORANGE JUMP SUIT with LEGG IRONS. WE could just leave O'Reilly in the U.S. Army base in Cuba.Would you care?
..should be made to wear panties on his head.
I thought he did that already? You know, for W to help him relax....
Rove should be going to the International War Crimes Court with the rest of the Bush Admin.
They let Cheney hijack the intelligence operation for 8 years and now they're going to criticize Panetta for things he HAS NOT DONE YET.
These clowns should all be charged for supporting war crimes.
Two combat dodging conservative chickenhawk cowards who would sh*t themselves at the mere sight of a waterboard. But like Rush and the other Chickshit blowhard conservatives they talk a big game.
If torture works to get accurate information then waterboard Rove to find out who the traitor(s) who outed Valerie Plame.
lets submit them to extraordinary rendition to Venezuela.
Tehran....
What has made me so sad for so long was that torture was even discussed as an option in my country. I grew up hearing about the horrible things other countries did to people during a time of war and it gave me nightmares. I always felt so safe and fortunate that I didn't live in a country like that. Then not so long ago, it became very evident that I did live in a country just like those others. Seems to me that would make anyone sad.
As for the people who want the torture to continue, are they really good patriotic Americans? I have to question why they would want something so awful done in their names. Don't they realize that America has always been better than that?
you just fell for the illusion that america is , its all been a lie ! historys written by bullshiters!
If only we had gotten the memo "Bush administration determined to wreck America" in time.
The memo still hasn't come.
Suicide bombers. So lots of luck with that strategy.
I agree that they are insane. I also happen to agree that they are fully aware of what they’re doing. The fact that they speak this vicious seditious barbaric rhetoric is exactly what makes them insane. Rove will eventually get what’s coming to him but we’ll have to wait for Karma to get BillO. Let us all pray to the FSM that BillO be silenced. A concerted effort may induce Karma. It’s worth a try. "Oh lord FSM hear our prayers..."
bwahahaha... neither of these punk ass bitches gives a shit about 'protecting us from terrorists' (their records speak for themselves).
their whole aim here is not to protect 'us' from 'terrorists', it is to protect the conspirators from a war crime trial. and this is all part of the effort to alter history. if rove and his merry band of thugs can alter perception enough (on issues like torture) it is less likely that americans will DEMAND that they be arrested, put on trial and sentenced.
Like the anthrax attacks
the DC snipers
The Virginia Tech terrorist
Just to name 3 off the top of my head.
It's getting close to the time to water the tree of Liberty with blood.
...instead of roting in jail is proof of just how fucked up our country is.
No doubt BillO and Rove think Jesus wasn't a good Christian. After all, if he'd only tortured his disciples he's have found the one that would betray him.
According to O'really and Rove John McCain must be a snitch because wasnt he tortured in Nam. That means he must have told all.
Also every other American serviceman who was ever captured by the Vietnamese, Koreans, Germans, Japanese, etc., etc.
Fortunately, some of those evil-doers who tortured Americans were tried, convicted and executed for torture. I doubt we will be that lucky.
Who cares what O'Reilly says but a bunch of retirement home racists who are just pissed off that a black man was elected president.
And does O'Reilly have statistics or experts on his show who can say that torture was directly responsible for keeping us safe? Thought not. Instead, he has Turd Blossom.
If only O'Reilly's influence was as limited as you suggest. He speaks for millions upon millions of Americans, many of whom hold or will hold political power.
That makes his lack of ethics very dangerous indeed.
Both Rove and O'Reilly probably know that torture generally produces worthless or misleading "intelligence". Neither of them care. They both make a lot of money promoting conservative ideology.
In this case, just to keep their pay cheques coming, they are advocating that people they have never met be tortured for no practical benefit to American security. In other words, they are trying to convince Americans to allow strangers to be tortured for Rove and O'Reilly's personal financial benefit.
One very basic reason [among many] why these two superpatriots have absolutely no credibility on an issue such as this is that when they had their chance to display their patriotism, they mysteriously came nowhere near a field of combat while wearing a military uniform. These two have no reason to lecture others regarding national security since they made sure that they were never going to be involved in getting in harm's way in support of [allegedly] keeping this country safe from the dreaded communists or nowadays, from the [alleged] ubiquitous terrorists. Their motto: let some other fool risk his life, as long as I do not end up putting my money where my mouth is.
Bill O' continues to amaze me. Not with the fact that he is one of the most offensive Christian right Republican hacks to ever draw breath, no.
He continues to amaze me how fast and how permanently he is able to drive what remains of this countries NeoCons into the smoldering dung heap of irrelevant history by way of his limitless, unbridled ego.
Bill's road to TV ratings is teetering on the brink of disaster of Titanic proportions. With his ship taking water, he dines on falafels blissfully ignorant of what'shappening around him.
To that I say, happy sailing Bill.
I can think of others but these two morons both would make very good candidates for torture...the receiving end.
The premise of Rove's and O'Reilly's belief in torture is in the Orwellian principle that it is not the crime that is punished, but the individual. Therefore, it doesn't matter that what Bush did was torture. It only matters that what Saddam/terrorists/whoever did was torture, the myth being that Bush's intent was just: counter-terrorism intel, while the terrorist's intent is unjust: to cause suffering.
This idea is not unique to torture, of course. In our political history, it isn't even modern. It's an idea whose sole raison d'etre is to support the legal exclusivity of government officials: Emperors, Kings, Dictators, and Presidents. In turn, this legal exclusivity is born of the idea that opposition to government is counter to the objective of government: order. Intolerance of dissent is born of the disorder and counter-action that dissent entails, which is the nature of dissent itself, virtuous though it may be.
Though O'Reilly and Rove may just be talking from their wallets, it's still true that many well-intentioned people accept their argument. The popularization of dissent is crucial to getting at the root of the problem. It will not go away, even when the Republican party dies, and may become worse, paradoxically, in response to progressive government action.
Cheney, Rumsfeld, Bush, Rove, Wolfowitz, Perle, Gonzales, Chertoff, Rice, all the PNAC creeps, et al
....and the media whores who transmit their LIES and FEAR to the public, like O'Reilly, sHannity, Hume, Kraut-face, Limpballs....
These are the real terrorists. They are the ones who wished for 9/11 and enabled it. They are the ones who have perpetrated/supported illegal wars in our names. They are the ones who have robbed us of our money, peace of mind and civil rights.
They are the Terrorists. There's still time to Impeach, Indict, Prosecute and Incarcerate !(I hope someone does it before Dickie's circulatory system finally fails).
amen to that
Wouldn't it be a suprise if Unca Dick has a "heart attack" on 1/21/2009? Kenny Boy would prolly enjoy a new fishing buddy.
that these people draw an audience that believes every word spoken, and then they VOTE. Were this not so, the likes of Bush could never have held any public office much less President of the United States.
The bullies and sicko's of the world are united behind this ideology, and they will bring America down until she is no more!
go get 'em Franken!
Hasn't torture always been "off the table" in the sense that it's illegal and we've repeatedly said 'the US doesn't engage in torture'(even though we really have?) Bill's just another cowardly conservative ready to sell his soul (if he has one) to be protected from terr'ists.
pontificating. Rove should be in prison. And O'Reilly should be doing nothing more than writing letters to the editor.
'Scuse me. But exactly how much experience (at anything) did George have when he was (s)elected as president? None. I live in Texas. Texas governors have no power except to appoint and execute. That's it. George was and remains an empty suit. Obama is NOTHING like George (and we raise our voices to heaven in thanks!).
If we do get attacked I would suspect these corrupt bastards being involved ahead of Al-Qaeda. These criminals would stop at nothing to gain power.
O'Reilly and O'Rove, just a couple of clowns. If this band of crooks did such a good job of protecting us just, what exactly did happen on Sept. 11, 2001? I blame myself for even looking at this clip. This kind of crap will be spewed for the next 8 (count 'em) years. Sorry I don't have anything more pithy to say.
the funny thing is, not so funny really, the more i read about authoritarians, social dominators, and psychopaths the more clear it becomes the danger america is in. the traits displayed by rove and o'reilly and all their legion match the traits and characteristics described for these class or type of people. so now our future becomes tied to compromises to these henchmen(including coulter of course and malkin etc...) and their toxic neocon ideology. throw in all the revisionism and denial that we are witnessing. liberals are often too nice and naive to realize they are being had. we have been trained to not judge crazy people so we are impotent in our defense of these toxic individuals.
americans wise up! read and learn! cleckley, hare, altemeyer, stout,,,please exercise intelligence or we will not be getting rid of this ideology, which seems designed to kill life, like a vampire.
Someone should torture them.. SO THEY WILL STOP TALKING SHIT ALL THE TIME! PLEASE....
.
Q U E S T I O N:
When did TORTURE become legal and when did casually talking about it's acceptable use become second nature?
WHY DO REPUBLICANS HATE AMERICA?
.
.
R E M E M B E R:
9/11 happened on Bush's watch!
.
.
Of course all God Fearing Christians support the inhumane treatment of their neighbors...
... YES?
WHO DID CHRIST TORTURE?
.
...then by all means, torture Rove and O'Reilly.
You want torture?
I'll give you torture...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IppUw5RYjE
In February 2007, Judge Gladys Kessler from DC District Court said that Mr. Doe, a former CIA employee who says he was fired for going against Bush's claim of WMD's, could proceed with his lawsuit against Porter Goss. It is now 2009 and we will have a new CIA Director in ten days. Are we, the American public, going to be entitled to know the outcome of this lawsuit?
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