Steve Benen draws our attention to a speech given by Sarah Palin last Friday in Kentucky to an evangelical women's group called Women of Joy, one in which she appears to deny the existence of church-state separation:
I beg you, Women of Joy, to bring light and be involved, loving America and praying for her. Really, it is our solemn duty. Praying for true spiritual awakening to overcome deterioration. That is where God wants us to be. Lest anyone try to convince you that God should be separated from the state, our Founding Fathers, they were believers. And George Washington, he saw faith in God as basic to life.
As Greg Sargent observes, this is historical nonsense; many of the Founders were practicing Deists who ardently believed in separating religion from the conduct of secular politics:
There was a time when this sort of thing would provoke widespread media mockery and perhaps even be seen as a potential disqualifier for the presidency.
Ah, but we live in an age where a cable-TV network is doing the presidential qualifying for us.
What was perhaps most noteworthy -- and disturbing -- about Palin's speech, though, was how she publicly called out and thanked the "Prayer Warriors" who were out there on her side:
Palin: Given the chaos these days, just kind of standing up and speaking out for common sense has kind of become a full-time job. And it's keeping me pretty busy. And some days are kind of crazy. And my faith, my family -- they are what keep me grounded, keep me going.
Prayer Warriors all across the country -- and I know some of you are here tonight -- your prayer shield allows me and others to go forth. You give out strength, providing a prayer shield. That is the only way to put one foot in front of the other, and get through some of these days with joy.
I don't know how any politician could, or would want to do this, without knowing that there were prayer warriors out there, holding you up and seeking strength and wisdom for you. ... I am so appreciative of their efforts.
Thanks largely to the reportage of Max Blumenthal, we've known for some time that Palin was religiously affiliated with the "Prayer Warriors," but this is perhaps her first open public acknowledgment of it.
Who are the "Prayer Warriors"? Funny you should ask that: Bill Berkowitz explored that question for AlterNet:
Imagine a religious movement that makes geographic maps of where demons reside and claims among its adherents the Republican Party's most recent vice presidential nominee and whose leaders have presided over prayer sessions (one aimed at putting the kibosh on health-care reform) with a host of leading GOP figures.
It's a movement whose followers played a significant role in the battle over Proposition 8, California's anti-same-sex marriage initiative, and Uganda's infamous proposed Anti-Homosexuality Law, more commonly associated with the Family, a religious network of elites drawn from the ranks of business and government throughout the world. But the movement we're imagining encompasses the humble and the elite alike, supporting a network of "prayer warriors” in all 50 states, within the ranks of the U.S. military, and at the far reaches of the globe -- all guided by an entire genre of books, texts, videos and other media.
Imagine that, and you've just dreamed up the New Apostolic Reformation, the largest religious movement you've never heard of.
NAR's videos, according to researcher Rachel Tabachnick, "demonstrate the taking control of communities and nations through large networks of 'prayer warriors' whose spiritual warfare is used to expel and destroy the demons that cause societal ills. Once the territorial demons, witches, and generational curses are removed, the 'born-again' Christians in the videos take control of society."
The movement's notion of "spiritual warfare" has spread from the California suburbs to an East-Coast inner city, and has impacted policy decisions in the developing world. Movement operatives are well-connected enough to have testified before Congress and to have received millions of dollars in government abstinence-only sex-education grants, and bizarre enough to maintain that in its prototype communities, the movement has healed AIDS, purified polluted streams and even grown huge vegetables. Leaders in the NAR movement refer to themselves as "apostles."
Berkowitz also reported on Palin's ties to them:
Presidential campaign watchers got their first taste of the New Apostolic Reformation when it was revealed that Sarah Palin, while mayor of Wasilla, had been prayed over in a laying-on-of-hands by Rev. Thomas Muthee of Kenya, director of the NAR East Africa Spiritual Warfare Network, in a ceremony designed to protect Palin from witches and demons. Muthee, it turns out, is famous in his native land for driving out of town a woman he deemed a witch, a charge that had her neighbors calling for her stoning.
Palin, according to Alaskan Apostle Mary Glazier, became part of her prayer network at the age of 24.
You can't blame Benen for being perplexed and outraged:
[F]ar less amusing is the fact that Palin and others of her radical ilk reject any notion that "God should be separated from the state." It's the 21st century, for crying out loud. There are some countries that endorse Palin's worldview and intermix God and government -- Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Afghanistan under Taliban rule come to mind -- but they're generally not countries the United States tries to emulate.
... Palin not only thinks the Founding Fathers opposed church-state separation -- in other words, she thinks those who came up with the idea opposed the idea -- she also suggests religious people necessarily reject the constitutional principle. This is just astounding.
But then, he's probably never encountered a True Believer like Sarah Palin before. If you polled most of the "Christian nation" evangelicals, you would find a large majority of them refuse to accept church-state separation -- and truly believe that God guides their every step. Just ask Sarah.
She, coupled with the evangelical xtians who wish to build a theocracy, are dangers to our country, and its weak hold on "democracy".
Is there nothing that can be done, especially given the degree of MSM fawning over this stupid woman as if she were an intellectual giant?
I fear for our country.
A: No.
REASON: People will continue to fawn over MSM, (because the love TV) ...and MSM will continue to fawn over people that piss off people on the left...and right.(cuz they love to piss off Americans and divide them)
audit-prosecute-incarcerate
Media is a major joke
it most certainly is...
...and so are the people who continue watch it and suffer it's mind control.
(they don't call it "news programming" for nothin!)
audit-prosecute-incarcerate
it starts with cult like isolation from the rest of the world.
Right-wing couch potatoes don't stand a chance. They are fully immersed in the cult narrative 24 hours by FOX TV. The moral majority, composed mostly of democrats and democratic leaning independents, can recognise them as easily as recognizing a Hare Christyna or a Mormon. The problem is not identifying them and their wrongdoing. The real problem with this and other cults is that it's members always vote! Every figgin'time!
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
Looks like Sista Sarah is revving up for a Holy Jihad for 2012!
“The greatest evildoers are those who don’t remember because they have never given thought to the matter, and, without remembrance, nothing can hold them back,”
So it's going to be a Teahad!
!!
“The greatest evildoers are those who don’t remember because they have never given thought to the matter, and, without remembrance, nothing can hold them back,”
I'm more inclined to refer to Sarah and her followers as talibags, but that's just me.
If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're gonna get selfish, ignorant leaders.
George Carlin
Has the Church of Palin Profita been given tax free status yet? Where does she spend her "new found" million$?
ljmel
gunshop.
If you don't like our store policy, we'll shoot you in the face.
And a good deal of it goes to deicint the private jets she flies on (as seen on Countdown 19 April 2010)
BTW I never heard of the Women of Joy. It sounds like an AA for ladies of the night.
ljmel
They are a sister group of the Women of Dawn and the Women of Palmolive. All of them are connected with Phyliss Schlafley's Eagle Forum, which advocates for women to stay home, bear lots of kids, keep house and submit to their husbands. I don't know how they have time to attend meetings and conventions, unless they are ignoring their wifely duties. I'm sure that the members of Promise Keepers are against them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bEkq7JCbik
audit-prosecute-incarcerate
That gal, Madge, was a poor role model for good subsurvient women. Working outside the home! But, it was in a job that didn't threaten a real man's livelihood, so, that was kinda OK.
"Batshit Crazy? You're soaking in it!"
!
Mickey: "It was an epiphany. Do you know what an epipany is?"
Keoni: "NOT NOW MICKEY!"
If anyone dares think religious zealotry isn't getting worse today than it was just thirty years ago, may I point out that while these nutters are protesting "Harry Potter" for glamorizing "witchcraft", one of the most popular TV shows of the 60's was "Bewitched".
We're moving backwards, folks.
* There are two types of Republicans: millionaires and suckers.
"Mugsy's Rap Sheet": Recording history for those who seek to rewrite it.
Sarah Palin has protection from witches. She got it from her separationist pastor and wants to share it with America.
Repubs always need a boogeyman.
a little over-used.
“The greatest evildoers are those who don’t remember because they have never given thought to the matter, and, without remembrance, nothing can hold them back,”
Wasn't he from Kenya? Why won't he show his long form birth certificate? I'm sure he was from some African nation, being, therefore, unqualified to be a Christainista pastor in Alaska. Or, something like that.
You mean this video?
* There are two types of Republicans: millionaires and suckers.
"Mugsy's Rap Sheet": Recording history for those who seek to rewrite it.
i'd bet sara wishes THAT piece of film didn't exist.everyone should go and watch 'jesus camp' again.
....the fools do not realize,a population that can ,..... not paticipate .............in the 'economy'...,can not keep it viable!..........."we are listening,.......and we're not blind.,......this is your life....this is your time."
it makes me physically ill. How that crazy child leader featured isn't perpetuating child abuse is beyond me.
Can simply be someone that intercedes on your behalf in prayer. It doesn't necessarily insinuate the existence of an extremen organization to destroy our country with prayer. Sometimes I wonder if the fringe left is as bad or worse as the fringe right in how far they carry conspiracy theories. Prayer warrior is used in practically every church in the country, especially in the baptist and non-denominational churches.
How many perfectly sane people gather with nutz and then wonder why others think they're nutz too.. These people did give Sarah their podium, eh?
When one person is delusional, they call them insane. When a group of people are delusional, they call it religion. (or a political party)
Don't you mean cult
is intended to be a factual statement
The difference between a religion and a cult is entirely in the eye of the beholder.
a comparison is ridiculous...
I specifically applied it to conspiracy theories. The repubs and teabaggers have their fair share as well, but the lefties really get carried away (at least on this site) when it comes to religion, corporate improprieties, and the teabag movement (which I think hold alot of water, but still hasn't been proven).
I went to a tea party on tax day in St. Paul, just to provide an example of teabag conspiracy theories and to be agreeable with you, and some of the theories included: economic meltdown began when it became clear Obama had potential to be president, more revenues come in to Treasury without taxes, and God wants us to punish murdering abortion practitioners. These are just a few.
Never heard the term throughout my entire childhood/Catholic upbringing. I don't hear it now from my mother/sisters, who remain more connected to their Catholic faith than I do. As an ordained minister in the Universal Life Church, I don't use it.
What is prayer, then, a bunch of ransom demands for God? What are you going to do if He doesn't meet those demands? Does it mean you weren't intended to walk that path (say, as Vice President)? Does it mean that you didn't pray the right way, make the right sacrifices, that you aren't worthy?
Does it mean your God doesn't exist?
And, if God arranged for you to be mayor, then governor of Alaska, and you QUIT YOUR JOB HALFWAY THROUGH, what does that say about the esteem you hold God in? Is it that you received a higher calling? Are you honestly suggesting that you KNOW you completed the task which God had set before you? Or are you simply indulging in another typically human exercise of ego?
Finally, to be honest, we're not talking about 'destroying our country with prayer' - we're talking about rabid fundamentalists who want to couple that belief with a government. That's certainly NOT what the founding fathers intended, so it must be for the express purpose of doing the exact opposite, instituting a religious dictatorship.
Many things are done in protestant faiths that weren't practiced or believed in catholicism. Examples include speaking in tongues, and perceptions of the holy trinity, and how commandments are followed. Based on past posts, you have always been an anti-god, and christian basher, so I will not entertain your debate further.
And if you think I'm an anti-God/Christian basher, you don't know me at all.
I went through my comments and found it was a different user. Sorry for making the unfair accusation.
Based on past posts, you have always been an anti-god, and christian basher, so I will not entertain your debate further.
How very Christian of you. "I'm right and you're wrong, so if you don't believe what I believe, LALALALALALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU."
"Because you were catholic..."
"Were"? Are you trying to say Shadowgrn can't belong to multiple religions?
My "destroy the country with prayer" comment was a joke.
Why won't this woman just go away!
Because each successive generation of Republicans needs a leader that's dumber than they are to make themselves feel like "I could be President!"
We've gone from former actor Reagan, then Dubya, and now they are grooming Sarah.
If they get this idiot elected, I seriously fear the drooling moron they come up with to follow her.
* There are two types of Republicans: millionaires and suckers.
"Mugsy's Rap Sheet": Recording history for those who seek to rewrite it.
Newt "Sorry Honey--you got the disease...I'm divorcing you" Lothario Gingrich?
“The greatest evildoers are those who don’t remember because they have never given thought to the matter, and, without remembrance, nothing can hold them back,”
The living experiment of what happens in the dumbing down of America. When leaders seek people that are dumber than themselves for selfish purposes, not realizing the impact will be a lower standard that will degrade any advances made throughout the country's history, the reward is illusions and images.
Great quote from Enter the Dragon: "The enemy only has illusions and images to hide their true motives. Remove the images, and you will reveal your enemy.
Nice.
Money!
St. Paul said to pay your taxes, because your leaders are Divinely Ordained. So help me.
The only way to get around that statement is to get into positions of power, and then beat this scriptural verse into voters' heads.
These people want Christianity as official religion because they can get into office and line their pockets. That's all, that's it, end of story.
Stepford Sarah's in Knoxville this week to testify in the trial of the legislator's son who hacked her e-mail. Much as I despise her, this is one I hope she wins. Ted Turner's, Bob Rat's, and other media relatives in legislative and other positions have been hacking e-mail, phone calls, and utilizing local law for political surveillance for years on end, without fear of reprisal.
If she wins this round, perhaps attorneys will commence taking these cases instead of labeling complainants as nutjobs.
That tea baggers, as much as they whine about the Constitution being trampled, have not read it.
... if it was paraphrased.
And I wanta know why Sarah seems to be lisping.. she can't be biting her tongue.. does she have a chaw! what? Inquiring wingnutz NEED to know.
New tongue piercing?
I. The history of separation. (From the Pilgrims to the founders)
II. In the words of the founders
III. What Christian principals?
IV. Separation and prayer in schools
V. Separation and local/state governments
VI. Religion and taxes
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I'm sure they're not happy about this...
...Reagan’s Prayer Ritual Finally Ruled Unconstitutional
Study the symptoms not the virus...
in Texas screaming that Obama is trying to eliminate religion in the U.S. of A. by eliminating National Prayer Breakfast/Day. I e-mailed him back a copy of Obama's 2009 decree FOR National Prayer day and an article saying a State Supreme Court Justice had ruled that it was unconstitutional--not Obama. Those Rightys will believe anything, as long as it disses Obama.
“The greatest evildoers are those who don’t remember because they have never given thought to the matter, and, without remembrance, nothing can hold them back,”
"District Court Judge Barbara B. Crabb ruled that the National Day of Prayer Proclamation, instituted by Ronald Reagan in 1988, is unconstitutional."
It's all good for now... we'll see what the Supreme(s) do?
Amended: As a matter of fact, the President's peeps vowed to oppose the ruling, before the ink was dry, from what I've learned.
Study the symptoms not the virus...
their LIES straight!!
What a bunch of maroons!
“The greatest evildoers are those who don’t remember because they have never given thought to the matter, and, without remembrance, nothing can hold them back,”
... Obama ends Bush-era National Prayer Day service at White House
Study the symptoms not the virus...
It was a forward of a forward. I copied a link from Snopes debunking the story and sent it to everyone that was on all of the address lists. I figured I'd probably get some responses (which I planned to delete before reading for my sanity's sake), but after several days, not a peep.
me outrageous e-mails saying things like Obama is the antiChrist, Socialism is swallowing us up, etc. Mostly I just ignore him and delete them because he's kinda a nice guy, but when they are so stupid, I always mail him back a debunker. And, no response. How can you respond negatively to the truth?
“The greatest evildoers are those who don’t remember because they have never given thought to the matter, and, without remembrance, nothing can hold them back,”
They're looking for self-validation.
from me!
“The greatest evildoers are those who don’t remember because they have never given thought to the matter, and, without remembrance, nothing can hold them back,”
... is also fed by an inability to think critically (thus sustain/defend one's opinions/beliefs). So we forward stupid e-mail memes because they have replaced thinking.
You react as you do because you DO think, so the self-evident drivel grates. You reply, debunking the missive.
But because there's no critical thought on the other side, your words are mistaken as being judgmental and/or derisive. (Trust me, I got this from my sister after I ripped her for forwarding yet ANOTHER e-mail hoax.) They will either respond with anger, or not at all.
because there is no response from them to the truth--it doesn't suit their ideology.
“The greatest evildoers are those who don’t remember because they have never given thought to the matter, and, without remembrance, nothing can hold them back,”
... Ron Reagan, is a Honorary Board member, for the plaintiff→(PDF) in said suit.
Ron Reagan, media commentator, describes himself in a radio ad he taped for FFRF as: “Unabashed atheist, not afraid of burning in hell.”
Study the symptoms not the virus...
he has his head on straight, and still loves his father.
“The greatest evildoers are those who don’t remember because they have never given thought to the matter, and, without remembrance, nothing can hold them back,”
Palin is a well paid, uneducated, Reslug lunatic, spewing complete nonsense to brainless sheep.
The PERFECT GOP candidate!
"I know that there are people who do not love their fellow
man, and I hate people like that! " ~ Tom Lehrer (1928 - )
LOL.
Palin didn't even know the VP job duties so why should she actually understand the US Constitution in regards to church-state separation.
I agree with previous post, this woman is dangerous.
her supporters and those who will vote for her are even MORE dangerous.....jmo
Warrior Princess for God, is a definite Theocrat, what else is new.
I am glad to see Muslim fanatics at least mentioned as a force of oppression in this world.
Notice that the Warrior Princess got a plug in for Israel.
Yeah, but it's not because she's tolerant of "Teh Jews"...it's because all evangelicals know that without "Teh Jews", the Apocalypse cannot happen, so they gotta cultivate those crazy "non-Christians".
“The greatest evildoers are those who don’t remember because they have never given thought to the matter, and, without remembrance, nothing can hold them back,”
Silly me, I always thought the apocalypse needed to have catholics?
"I know that there are people who do not love their fellow
man, and I hate people like that! " ~ Tom Lehrer (1928 - )
...
“The greatest evildoers are those who don’t remember because they have never given thought to the matter, and, without remembrance, nothing can hold them back,”
in Israel, so they want to keep the homeland intact.
“The greatest evildoers are those who don’t remember because they have never given thought to the matter, and, without remembrance, nothing can hold them back,”
they are Gods "Chosen People", but you are absolutely correct, I pointed it out because of the apocalyptic mindset. The "rapture" and all that are very real to true believers, this is why this woman can never be allowed to get close to the levers of power. Not that the Dems are any less sold out when it comes to Israel, the problem that won't go away. This is why we are hammering Iran, that and the fact that they are, after all, we must remember, an Islamic Republic that has executed gays for being gay, the same thing that some of these fringe preachers want over here. Google Steven Anderson for some real fire and brimstone.
Macdonough's Song - by Rudyard Kipling
Whether the State can loose and bind
In Heaven as well as on Earth:
If it be wiser to kill mankind
Before or after the birth--
These are matters of high concern
Where State-kept schoolmen are;
But Holy State (we have lived to learn)
Endeth in Holy War.
Whether The People be led by The Lord,
Or lured by the loudest throat:
If it be quicker to die by the sword
Or cheaper to die by vote--
These are things we have dealt with once,
(And they will not rise from their grave)
For Holy People, however it runs,
Endeth in wholly Slave.
Whatsoever, for any cause,
Seeketh to take or give
Power above or beyond the Laws,
Suffer it not to live!
Holy State or Holy King--
Or Holy People's Will--
Have no truck with the senseless thing.
Order the guns and kill!
Saying --after--me:--
Once there was The People--Terror gave it birth;
Once there was The People and it made a Hell of Earth.
Earth arose and crushed it. Listen, O ye slain!
Once there was The People--it shall never be again!
It was a small miracle that Kipling wasn't lynched for that one.
Prayer warrior is a very odd term, but it doesn't necessarily denote that someone is a member of a specific organization.
... was really about the Final Four.
Prayer shield? Sounds powerful. Would be a great weapon in a Legend of Zelda game.
Yeah? Ask the Plains Indians about it. They thought that their Ghost Shirts would deflect soldiers bullets. Those were their version of "prayer shields". I'll bet my neighbor's truck that Sarah's prayer shields will be just as effective.
I'll bet your neighbor's truck would deflect bullets way better than a prayer shield.
This woman is an idiot.
There she is again , cashing in on the morons and simpletons . Did you see where the money goes in her so called PAC ? Palin and her advisers are nothing but con artists , just put the blithering idiot on stage , let her babble a while , read a few one liners of nonsense ( that someone else wrote for her ) and cash in on the dummies ! LOL
which is WHY "Teabagger Conservatives" have NO CREDIBILITY or VALIDITY.
Why now? Why, at this time in history, have “Teabagger Conservatives” suddenly developed an “awareness” of the improvidence in government spending? Were they not aware of the TRILLIONS plus taxpayer dollars being futilely squandered in Iraq and Afghanistan?
Where was their “impassioned concern” about government spending BEFORE they lost the presidency? Were they not aware that Bush/Cheney had EXPANDED the size and power of government to unprecedented levels?
Where were "Teabagger Conservatives" during the eight years of Bush/Cheney pissing on "The Constitution", usurping our personal freedoms, giving tax cuts to the rich they didn't need and we couldn't pay for, starting two wars we didn't need and couldn't pay for, spying on Americans in America, trashing the Geneva Convention and making torture a “legally sanctioned” government policy?
Where were "Teabagger Conservatives" when the middle class was being destroyed by corporate greed?
Where were "Teabagger Conservatives" when Insurance Companies, Banks and Wall Street ALL became TOO BIG TO FAIL and TOO RICH TO GO TO JAIL?
"Teabagger Conservatives" have no credibility or validity because the “Teabagger Movement” IS NOTHING MORE THAN A PROPAGANDA ARM OF CORPORATE AMERICA......and "Teabagger Conservatives" are too ignorant, dysfunctional and gullible to realize that THEY are THEIR own worst enemies.
"Teabagger Conservatives" are clueless sheep being lead to slaughter having somehow convinced themselves that their butchers are their saviors.
Excellent, accurate, passionate comments.
The only name of a famous 18th century American figure she can come up with is George Washington. I wonder if she thinks George Washington was a pilgrim, and wrote the Declaration of Independence?
This is typical of the religious right in American- they are uneducated reactionaries.
Don't bother reminding her most of the founding fathers were Diests- odds are she doesn't know what that word means...
I'd love to see her debate Christopher Hitchens on whether or not Thomas Jefferson was a devout Christian...
WHY do wingnuts covet stupidity? Be it Sarah Palin, Joe the Plumber, Victoria Jackson or GW Bush- right wingers admire dumb people..
I await the results of a debate with any person of information.
First question: You were once asked to name your favorite U.S. Supreme Court decision. I'd like to ask a slightly different question: Aside from Roe v. Wade, please state the NAME of ANY Supreme Court decision.
Second question: Aside from Mexico City, name the capital city of ANY Central American or South American country.
Third Question: Aside from the Declaration of Independence and U.S. Constitution, Name ANY document that you believe should be required reading for students of U.S. history.
shill!
As long as there are enough STUPID and DAMAGED people who are UNIFORMED and MALADJUSTED to the point of finding Glenn Beck "truthfully entertaining" and Sarah Palin and Michelle Bachmann "honestly sane", the MSM will broadcast their every word in pursuit of the almighty dollar and the political control of the masses of morons they manipulate and exploit to EXPAND CORPORATISM.
I guess she'll speak to anyone if the price is right. It's more like a Sarah Palin "screech" though. "God she's shrill!"
She will be appearing soon in Eugene, OR for a Rethuglican fund raiser...$250/a plate dinner which is all sold out, so they are selling $100 @ tickets to sit in another room and watch her on a giant TeeVee. She is allowing no cameras--still or video. Sound recordings are prohibited. Reporters won't be allowed in the room where she is speaking, but will be allowed to watch a live video feed. Palin will answer no questions from the media. Bags will be checked at the door (apparently being checked for tomatoes.) Recording devices and cell phones will not be allowed in. Anyone seen trying to record the event will be shown the door.
"These conditions were not established by us, said the coordinator from the Lane County Republicans. "They were in her contract."
The event is expected to raise a couple hundred thousand dollars, most of which will go to Sista Sarah. Typical fleecing of the public by the Rethuglican Party.
WHAT IS SHE AFRAID OF?
“The greatest evildoers are those who don’t remember because they have never given thought to the matter, and, without remembrance, nothing can hold them back,”
want to pay that kind of money to listen to the woman of Babal they deserve to pay more in taxes.
and mesmerized by "celebrity"...especially those little sheeple Rethuglicans. They loves them some Sexy Sista Sarah, no matter that her voice sounds like nails on a chalkboard.
If she and Michelle Bachmann team up for 2012, the entire country will go deaf from voice assault.
“The greatest evildoers are those who don’t remember because they have never given thought to the matter, and, without remembrance, nothing can hold them back,”
Sounds salacious. Lacivious. An address anybody?
Chrisitian revisionist history has been in full force for 50 years. Sadly many of my fellow liberals fall for the same lies. Liars for jesus are liars! Anyway the Constitution is a secular document and we have a secular government. When liberals support crap like "ceremonial deism" they do nothing other than to cheapen their god and echo right wing talking points. The separation of church and state is the exact type of thing where religious moderates help out religious fundamentalists. Break the cycle. Admit you've been wrong about "under God" and "in god we trust". Demand better from your politicians.
Palin-Bachman in 2012
But she's not a candidate, she just hit the lottery with this gig!!
But 'WOMEN OF JOY' . .
WTF, these WOMEN OF JOY must be rich!!!
There aren't enough hours in my day between working, chores, shopping, laundry, kids, housework, personal maintenance to be a WOMAN OF JOY . .
Now if I had someone cleaning my house, shopping, etc. I might consider myself a WOMAN OF JOY . .
Speaking of prayer warriors:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhRUe-gz690
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
and raise you one Electric Warrior:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yO2VDyvua8
Because God, impotent mess that he is, needs all the help he can get from the cold blooded and deadly 'Women of Joy'...
... if you prayed for McCain/Palin in 2008.
... if you prayed for victory in Againistan and Igotaraq.
Did God not hear you?
Did you say the wrong prayers?
Did God not intend this in His Plan?
it was the plan, but he just didn't have the energy.
I still hope to see the day that a sports icon praises Satan for making the other team lose.
Robert A. Baker, Emeritus professor of psychology, University of
Kentucky, and noted spiritual bunk debunker. Contributor to Skeptical Briefs, the newsletter of the Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"What happens when the same number of people pray for something as pray against it? How does God decide whose prayer to answer?...
This spring when a small Kentucky town won the State High School Girl's Basketball crown, the town's newspaper, as well as the largest newspaper in Kentucky, gave credit for the victory to God's answering their prayers. Why their prayers were answered and the prayers of the losers were not remains unknown.
One possibility is that the Hazard team had a better 'pray-er'—in the form of their principal, who was also a minister. If it turns out that the higher one stands in the religious hierarchy the better the chances that one's prayers will be heeded, then it certainly behooves every athlete and every athletic team to employ the most religious 'pray-ers' possible. Certainly no one should ever enter any contest unpre-prayered!" ;)
Study the symptoms not the virus...
Governor Sonny Perdue prayed up some rain in the last drought. Methinks he had a bunch of help from crop dusters with a load of salt or silver nitrate, seeding clouds.
Epicurus (341-270 B.C.E.), Greek philosopher. Taught that the soul consists of atomic material that disintegrates at death.
"If God listened to the prayers of men, all men would quickly have perished: for they are forever praying for evil against one another."
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Dan Barker (1949— ), American atheist writer and activist; co-president, Freedom From Religion Foundation (FFRF). Former evangelical preacher; maintained a touring musical evangelical ministry for 17 years. Author of Losing Faith in Faith: From Preacher to Atheist; Just Pretend: A Freethought Book for Children; and Maybe Yes, Maybe No: A Guide for Young Skeptics. Member of the Lenni Lenape Tribe of Native Americans.
"I [as a believer] assumed that the successful prayers were proof that God answers prayer while the failures were proof that there was something wrong with me."
Study the symptoms not the virus...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3mDLsyn6ns
Q when you need him ? , he would straighten these fools out right quick and in a hurry ! .
every time you throw a little mud , you lose a little ground .
"... your race is always suffering and dying."
heaven is no place to run .
Its all a man can do
to get out of this life alive .
W.C.Fields
every time you throw a little mud , you lose a little ground .
n/t
n/t
every time you throw a little mud , you lose a little ground .
" the trouble with dumb bastards is that they are to dumb to think there IS such a thing as being smart".
Conservative Authoritarians love them some hypocrisy!
That's it, blame the dead writer for saying to(o)dumb...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
What's she doing with her hands in that picture?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boS6TQEgvhE&fe...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Looks like one of the "Warriors" took some illegal footage using their cell phone! Track it down and beat the shit out of him or her!
Da rulz muzt be inforssed!
Before enlightenment - chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment - chop wood, carry water.
Looks like one of the "Warriors" took some illegal footage using their cell phone! Track it down and beat the shit out of him or her!
In God's name, of course.
Once upon a time there were moderate Republicans, who regarded the far right religious loonies as just that...loonies, and the moderates even embraced concervative intellectuals like William Buckley.
Being an intelllectual was seen as a good thing...
The far right anti intellectual theocrats have since sought to purge the Republican party of intellectuals and moderates- and I assure you, they see Palin and Beck as being whackjobs.
By Beck and Palin standards,William Buckley was a far left liberal
But they are cynically using these morons to try to win the next election. If they dance with Palin long enough, they may get some real mileage from it.
Beck is a crazy dog who may need to be put down eventually, but right now he IS biting the left so he's useful.
But it all may backfire for the GOP. It's possible a new far-right party will emerge from this to replace them.
The whole religious complexion of the modern world is due to the absence from Jerusalem of a Lunatic Asylum. -Havelock Ellis
Notice the radical Muslim zealots-and the radical Christian zaelots- both love guns and theocracy? Both covet ignorance, both detest individual freedoms..
Every time I see a pickup truck of gun wielding Christian nuts, I'm reminded of footage of pickup trucks carrying gun wielding Muslim nuts. Is there any difference?
Remember that there are good ol' pagans and atheists out here who drive pickup trucks and keep guns for self-defense against our insane Christian forgive-the-thieves neighbors, as well as the limited possibility of an Islamic nut gone wild.
I am constantly amazed at the result of home schooling and the Texas School Boards effects in re-writing history. People have forgotten or were never told, that one of the key reasons people, you know the founding fathers, came to America was to flee religious persecution. It is incredibly telling that the first line of the First Amendment to the Constitution, even ahead of free speech, deals with the prohibition of the government with making any law regarding an establishment of religion or the free practice thereof. The founding fathers understood one thing very well, religion when allowed to interfere with government was the most destructive thing in mankind's history. They realized that most Americans came to this country to escape the oppressions of state sponsored religion. And they thought they had banished that oppression for all time. But then we have Sarah Palin and the religious right, who are now determined to force their religion, contrary to the Constitution, on our nation. I hope there is a hell reserved for these people and that their queen is there with them, chained to the biggest piece of brimstone available.
Here's a thought. The American revolution was about freedom. The civil war, relatively the same thing. While not enough, serious progress in terms of human rights were results of these wars.
But we have never successfully thrown off the bonds of religious oppression. We have never freed ourselves from the religious extremists who have constantly threatened our political freedom.
They followed us here. They brought with them their fear, their hate, and their ignorance. They wasted no time in burning suspected witches, etc. and forcing their will on the rest of us.
You can't even become president unless you are a Christian. That's not freedom, that's the opposite. From store closings on Sundays, to forcing Air Force cadets to attend church, to showing up on my doorstep to tell me I'm going to hell, to subjecting me to evangelical speakers at my public high school, it's bullshit. I'm sick of religious people getting special treatment. Pedophilia is fine as long as you're a priest. Nope, no sex crime charges here.
Enough is enough. It's ok to believe in God. But it ends there. It's time to have a conversation in this country about what religious freedom really is and how far from it we are.
The whole religious complexion of the modern world is due to the absence from Jerusalem of a Lunatic Asylum. -Havelock Ellis
"The American revolution was about freedom" . . .
Again, this is a vastly over-simplified and relatively unhelpful description of historical reality. There are innumerable forms of "freedom". The American Revolution was the result of a collective effort on the part of colonists to establish national independence in an Anglo-European colony. Such national independence movements took place in a variety of colonies. In most, including the U.S., certain freedoms were codified, others were not. Putting aside the lofty rhetoric of the times, the nationalist movement in the U.S. in the 18th century was more about securing the fruits of imperial conquest than securing individual freedom.
In any event, I agree with you that a certain religious dogmatism continues to plague the overseas Europeans, and it remains a problem with no easy solutions.
National independence to them meant the "freedom" to pursue their own agendas apart from England. To the establishment in the North in 1861, your argument about imperialism is correct. They wanted to destroy the Southern aristocracy. But to many, for idealistic and practical reasons, political and social freedom were at stake too.
As for the South, it was all about what they defined as "freedom".
The whole religious complexion of the modern world is due to the absence from Jerusalem of a Lunatic Asylum. -Havelock Ellis
First and foremost, the American revolutionaries were fighting for economic freedom from a system that made them subject to the monopoly of the East India Company, with the secondary cause being a disdain for royal land grants in the colonies to political favorites in the peerage that kept colonists from owning much of the farm-able land.
As for the Civil War: Who are you? VA Governor Bob McDonnell? The answers are slavery and the Three Fifths Clause, which gave extra weight to every voter in a Congressional district that included slaves within its boundaries. And because Jim Crow laws such as poll tests and taxes kept African-Americans from voting in those same former slave districts until the passage of the National Voting Rights Act, the Civil War continued as a cold war from 1865 until 1965.
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
Historically, the ante-bellum South functioned off a residual economic mode or production. By the mid-19th century, slavery imposed a regressive force on the development of industrial capitalism (which was more developed in the North). As the mine operators in the North knew, it is more profitable to hire free labor than to purchase and maintain slaves to work in mines. Based on recent event, that appears to be more true than ever.
...then plantation owners would have freed the slaves, rehired them as free men, opened a "company store" and charged the freed workers for housing. It would have been smart (at that time) business, lowering costs, allowing them to become more competitive in the cotton and/or sugar markets.
Yet the slave holders stuck with a less efficient system. There has to be a reason for that. That reason must be that they enjoyed being over-represented in the House and the Electoral College.
The Civil War didn't happen overnight. To find the causes, you have to back-track through Bleeding Kansas to the fight over the Wilmot Proviso to the Missouri Compromise- which, eventually, leads back to the Three Fifths Clause.
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
your account reduces historically complex and over-determined circumstances to junior-high civics cliches. That some (I question "many") represented to themselves and others some "idealistic" investment in "freedom" as their perceived objective offers, without more, limited insight into little more than what a given colonist thought.
"Why" the U.S. came to exist is a lot more complicated than you suggest. In pertinent part, the desire to escape from religious persecution was actually a relatively small part of the big picture. True, in the first half of the 17th century a large portion of those who immigrated to North America did so for reasons of escaping religious persecution. But a comparably large (if not larger) number did so for other reasons. By the end of the 17th century, the large majority of the "overseas Europeans" coming to North America did so for one or more of the following reasons:
1. they sought escape from criminal prosecution in the U.K. and other European countries;
2. they sought to make a fortune (or at least make some kind of living) by actively participating in the imperial conquest of the non-Anglo-European world;
3. they were indentured servants or slaves;
4. they were children and/or women, and therefore they went where their husbands/fathers effectively required them to go;
5. they were compelled to take their chances in the "new world" given high unemployment, plight, famine, political persecution and, yes, religious persecution in the Anglo-European world.
In brief, in the 17th-18th century, most people did NOT "come to this country to escape the oppressions of state sponsored religion." By suggesting as much, you are merely reproducing the very childlike myths that people like Palin thoughtlessly rely on and reproduce on a daily basis.
I think you are short changing the Puritans, the Catholics (persecuted in England), the Cathars, the Hugenots and the Jansenists. Not to mention the Lutherans, and the people fleeing from the Puritans, the Lutherans, the Catholics, and the Church of England. They don't refer to Bloody Mary Queen of Scots as bloody for no reason.
And you are ignoring the placement of the religion statement in the First Amendment. It is the first issue, admittedly among many, and for some, such as Jefferson a deist, critical for inclusion in the Constitution.
Some will argue that because Madison was a Christian, the republic was meant to be Christian. Others will argue that because Jefferson was a deist, the republic was meant to be non-Christian. What both Madison and Jefferson argued was that it was nobody’s frigg’n business what they believed. They said that very clearly – government should stay the hell away from everybody’s religion.
Please note that there are intentionally bogus quotes attributed to Madison (and others) regarding religion. These quotes were fabricated by the liar for jesus David Barton.
Noted.
I don’t think the founding dudes really thought that much about religion while forming our Constitution. Sure some were more religious than others – in all respects. The 1st Amendment was mostly a reaction to Britain’s establishment of the Church of England. Back then a specific religion was a requirement. They simply said, “Bad idea” – and moved on.
I am responding to YOUR proposition -- "that most Americans came to this country to escape the oppressions of state sponsored religion". (Incidentally, contrary to your statement, the "founding fathers" did not come to North America "to flee religious persecution". They were all born in North America: Washington and Jefferson were born in Virginia; Hamilton was born in the West Indies; Franklin and Adams were born in Massachusetts; John Jay was born in New York.)
Statistically and certainly rhetorically, your proposition is simply not true. At best, there were multiple reasons why most people emigrated to North America. Flight from religious persecution was, no doubt, a significant factor for some. But by no means can it be established that this one reason was THE predominant reason for the large majority of all those who came to North America during the 150 years from the founding of the Massachusetts Bay Colony to the Declaration of Independence.
As for the reasons why the First Amendment references a prohibition against the establishment of religion, that was not the topic of my comment. In any event, it is not the "first issue" in the Constitution, though it is in the 1st Amendment TO the Constitution.
Actually the originators of that proposition are the Talibaptists, essentially trying to rewrite US history as having a specious religious inspiration. That would be such people as sarah palin, the subject of the thread.
So structurally some may form their rejoinder by honing in on that point and that point only. Otherwise one risks dissipation of one's argument simply due to the interlocutor losing his audience attention due to the possibility of employing Argumentum ad Verbosium.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Plenty of others, religious and otherwise, fled Scotland and Germany to evade the confiscatory and land-hungry witch hunters, as well.
Which is just another reason that Stepford Sarah and her little ratpack of preyer/warriors nauseate me.
Scots who swore fealty to the Crown and English Church became the landlords of Northern Ireland, of Catholic Irish.
Parliament tried to send relief to the Irish during the Potato Famine, but they needed the potatoes to feed the English poor, and the Lords of Northern Ireland kept pressing in Parliament for laws regarding getting their rents or evicting their tenants.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Oh, and in the witch hunting days it was the landed estates that were confiscated that kept them functioning, and the poor who were burned at the stake (or hanged in England,) simply a way of keeping a particular sector of the economy alive, which involved the hewers of wood for the stake, the gatherer of ******s for the pyre, the forgers of chains to hold them to the stakes, the souvenir and snack hawkers during the execution.
Even the torturer and the executioner charged the family of the convicted for services rendered.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
People have forgotten or were never told, that one of the key reasons people, you know the founding fathers, came to America was to flee religious persecution.
That statement is loaded with irony.
The Puritans, the founders of Plymouth Colony (the earlier Jamestown colony was a purely commercial venture) and the later, neighboring Massachussetts Bay Colony, were persecuted in England for their beliefs, but because they believed that the Church of England needed purification (hence "Puritans"). They were persecuted for being persecutors.
It wasn't until Roger Williams fled the Massachussetts Bay Colony- due to persecution that he faced in that community- and founded Providence Plantation (now part of Rhode Island) that we saw a colony founded on the ideals of truly free religious worship.
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
Also to be technical, Founding Fathers is generally the founders of our government and nation, when the initial settlers could be more correctly referred to as forefathers.
That opens a baggy of maggots for the anal retentive.
The Puritans were residual forces from Oliver Cromwell's Commonwealth then Protectorate whose religious decrees were more onerous than King Charles I. But then because of the Restoration they and all the other "dissenter churches" were severely limited in rights under the Clarendon Code.
Some people have made a distinction between Puritans and Pilgrims, but the demarcation is fuzzy at best, but supposedly the latter just wanted to be left alone, however they did persecute other Christians too. To me it seems as if Puritanism wasn't necessarily at that point a clear sect but a movement within the Congregational Churches similar to Evangelicals and Fundamentalists of today, but generally more intelligent.
Some would credit the Puritans for helping to create a Constitutional Monarchy and emphasizing the power of the Legislature over the Executive, which we've inherited into our system. But then that was also a return to the Anglo-Saxon Witan of pre-Norman Invasion governance (both Pagan and Christianized) as well. Then the English Church, established in 664 ce was destroyed at Hastings at 1066 (12 years after the Great Schism), and replaced with the papacy until 1534. But Cromwell himself was quite dictatorial, banning dancing and card playing etc.
(Of course there were further complications such as Queen Mary and King James II trying to reimpose Catholicism, the rise of William of Orange, and the slaughter of the Jacobites. And it took all the way from King James I in 1567-1625 to about 1801 for there to be a United Kingdom, but you get the general idea.)
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Check your timelines, ysb.
Puritanism first surfaced around 1560. The Synod of Dort was in 1619. Puritans founded Plymouth Colony in 1620. English Civil War was 1642-1646. Restoration occurred in 1660.
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
Don't wish this on the citizens of hell. Palin will probably be charging her exorbitant fees for her worthless speeches down there.
has a prayer shield.
oh man, that is rich.
Do prayer shields protect you from pregnancy?
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
common sense
Why are you asking us this question? Bristol Palin obviously should be the recipient of your inquiry concerning this subject.
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Sarah Palin is more Folksy Dreamy than she is Trusty Honest.
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Starve the WAR Beast...
... Feed Americans.
are surely giving God a good laugh. Their prayers are to Christianity what FOX News is to honest journalism.
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