12 people killed by gunman in Binghamton, N.Y
Another mass murder---lone gunmen scenario.
Twelve or 13 people were killed when a gunman opened fire in an immigration services center in Binghamton, N.Y., Gov. David A. Paterson said Friday.
According to several news reports, the police said the gunman shot and killed himself and may be among the count of 12 or 13 dead. killed also.
The gunman has been identified as 42 year old Jiverly Voong. Nothing shows up about him on Google. VP Biden said people they were taking a test for their citizenship and said we have to find a way to stop this type of violence. A better form of gun control might help.
Watching cable news cover these types of stories is very tough. As soon as some crisis breaks, they fill their airwaves with endless speculation and unsubstantiated facts that usually are proven wrong. I could speculate too, but it's kind of premature. The fact that it happened in an immigration services center will fuel wild speculation as well.
usually brands it as terrorist attacks when it's usually only our right wing nut jobs and their revolution. OH, that's right, we don't want to speculate about the hate driven crowd of Beck, Hannity, and Dobbs.
Peace!
how the media spins this. Before getting back to Madonna and Oprah.
the "big rivalry" between Michele Obama and Carla Bruni. Wolf's been all over it.
Haven't had the TV on today. I'd be mighty pissed if they cut to a shooting when it's a battle between Michelle and Carla, especially if Wolf is covering it. Mighty pissed.
(Actually, I am pissed when they cut to any breaking news, because it's usually inane drivel. Come to think of it, cutting from inane drivel to inane drivel--- why do I even watch???)
"If the US government enforced its banking laws like it did its park regulations, we wouldn't be
in this damn park in the first place." OCCUPY.!!
Anyone who feels compelled to kill others then themselves should opt to kill themselves first....I couldnt care less how sad the murderer's life may have been..Since an immigration center was targeted, I'm guessing the shooter was a wacked out right wing xenophobe...
Sounds like a disgruntled customer of the USCIS/INS, prob somebody who got screwed by their antiquated system, conned out of a payment for a form, or screwed over in some way. Maybe a family member needlessly deported on a minor technicality.
When people are desperate and facing an unfeeling wall of bureaucracy, they tend to go nuts.
maybe?
________________
common sense matters as much as truth
"When people are desperate and facing an unfeeling wall of bureaucracy, they tend to go nuts."
And is that an excuse? If this freak felt like killing people, he should have stuck to killing only himself. NEVER think of mass murderers like this scumbag as being victims- because the murderer is never the victim- the people he killed were the victims.
it shows your extreme short sightedness. and ignoring the problem at heart.
one news source *claims* that the gunman was recently fired by IBM, which is a major employer in the Binghamton region.
I'm originally from the Binghamton area. Came pretty close to attending SUNY-Binghamton, and still have a lot of friends who live there. It's been hit hard by the economy over the last 20-30 years, and they've had to be resilient. They've have to be even more so in the aftermath of all this.
Native-born Americans - of all races and ethnicities - are tired of losing jobs to immigrants.
Are you from Lou Dobbs TV?
"If the US government enforced its banking laws like it did its park regulations, we wouldn't be
in this damn park in the first place." OCCUPY.!!
I considered a like one, though the assumed collateral damage tends to refute the legitimacy given the correlation of the two? Maybe, for notoriety or legacy reasons, kinda like that VA Campus nut awhile back?
Or
Could be one of Michelle Malkin's White Supremacist Ties?
[ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alex-koppelman/... ]
"Malkin was born Michelle Maglalang on October 20, 1970 in Philadelphia to Filipino parents, Rafaela and Dr. Apolo Maglalang, while they were in the United States on student visas."
PS. My sympathies too the families. ♥
Study the symptoms not the virus...
When people (shooters) are this whacked to begin with, I hardly think they sit down and go through the thought process you outlined. Know what I mean?
"If the US government enforced its banking laws like it did its park regulations, we wouldn't be
in this damn park in the first place." OCCUPY.!!
Just a few days ago it was that retirement home, now this.
We need a pretend bandaid to reassure the people, nothing like gov playacting on TV to make it all right.
Good old GWB, for allowing the assault rifle ban to lapse in 2005 or so.
The assault weapons ban had nothing to do with this, and reenacting it will do nothing to curb gun violence.
Sure make killing lots of people easier, thats the reason soldiers and gunmen on rampages tend to use them. Heck even police and SWAT teams carry them now.
Soldiers use fully automatic weapons, which is an entirely different firearm than what the assault weapons ban prohibits. The assault weapons ban, on military "style" rifles, as you properly state, is nothing more than a ban on a semi-automatic rifle, albeit a scary looking one. Functionally, it is not that different than a hunting rifle, and actually fires a less powerful round. Fully automatic weapons haven't been available for the public to purchase in decades. The talking heads on media outlets don't know what they hell they are talking about when referring to the AWB.
They need to control access to all guns not just assault weapons.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
decide that public safety is more important than reasonable gun laws, i.e. closing the gun show loophole, some form of federal bill of sale to indicate current ownership, this type of event will happen on a regular basis. If the disgruntled nut case near St. Louis a few years ago could get the drop on several cops near the municipal court, kill a few, draw down, kill and wound several more armed, weapons trained officers, the average citizen is at much more of a disadvantage. But Americans just love the false sense of security offered by guns.
Just ban the bullets
of Chris Rock's best skits.
Gun collectors don't always want to fire and ruin their precious antiques...
You might get an ass kicking and then be arrested for being caught with a conTROLLED substance...stupidity.
and so sad. My condolences.
the killer was an American-born Vietnamese man who just got laid off from IBM. He was among the 13 dead. Haven't heard if he killed himself or the police got him.
This could, of course, be wrong but it is what I'm hearing on the TeeVee.
Not happy with 'new' citizens.
He's an American...
Next they will tell us that Obama is an American born Kenyan I suppose...
audit-prosecute-incarcerate
thanx 4 that correction.
________________
common sense matters as much as truth
You mean that he's not a hyphenated American?
So people born in America are just Americans and not some hyphenated version of an American?
I'll have to keep that in mind. Thanks.
Agreed but this is how I heard him described by Faux News. I guess it's something they think is important to mention because he shot up a center that helps immigrants? Or because it helps Faux when they compare him with the VA Tech shooter (which Faux has done a few times now)?
Domestic violence?
because you're so on point.
there are no 'unsubstantiated facts', just rumors. We keep associating the word 'fact' with that they do. that is our ongoing mistake. they are town criers, not journalists. tonight, all the shows will have 'experts' explaining all of it to us.
________________
common sense matters as much as truth
I always cringe when I hear "Unsubstantiated fact"...
Oh god, not again.
As a longtime commie pagan with a decided hatred of the right, may I respectfully suggest that it's simply too damn late for gun control to make a dent in cases like this. There are simply too many guns out there in America.
True, I would feel better if they weren't selling .44 Magnums -- and worse -- in the sporting good stores where my son and I are currently shopping for new fishing poles.
But if you want a gun in this country and you are willing to break the law to get it, you will get it.
I'd like to think I see both sides here. I grew up shooting and have the NRA medals ( and ammo bills from target practice) to prove it. I carried a gun for personal protection while driving over-the-road trucks, and there were nights when I was parked in very scary places that the gun was the only reason I was able to get to sleep.
I've also had two friends murdered by handgun-wielding lunatics, neither of whom should have been allowed in the same room with a weapon of any kind.
I have spent time in Canada, and time sitting in a Detroit office window staring down at the river and thinking, 8 handgun murders on that side of the river, 15,433 on this side, and just how insane that is.
But please let us now pretend that tighter laws will fix this problem.
Oh, and thanks for not speculating on cause. Leave that to Fox Noise. My guess is that the guy was mentally ill, and the rest is just banter fodder.
This is tragic story, but I am sure if the killer is Asian our community will certainly be branded terribly. The comparisons to Virginia Tech will start and then the Chinese, Korean, Vietnamese and others will be demonized. It is something I am not looking forward to, one man's story is turned into a media frenzy about a culture.
Let's just hope not.
Because European descended Americans NEVER do thing like this!
To be in the status of other "federal" buildings. Upon entering any federal building you have to throw all your stuff in a container and walk through a metal detector.
I say all these buildings should be treated the same.
Gun control is fine so long as the American People can continue to possess firearms in order to defend ourselves from others who might kill us first...
We must always be prepared to defend "the Homeland" from any enemies....either foreign or "domestic".
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
Some overweight middle aged doorman with maybe a tiny show gun in his/her holster, along comes the gunman with his auto assault rifle (and the rest).
Putting a fully armed squad in every gov building throughout America would help, but at what cost.
Many decades ago, politicians were too afraid of upsetting the NRA, so nothing was done about mil style weapons being freely available to all the freaks (with a grudge) out there.
So we now reap the rewards many times over, of cowardice and inaction.
"domestic" scares me much more than "foreign".
gonbald: "Domestic" scares me much more than "foreign".
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
We'll hear the right wing scream guns don't kill people or the others should have been armed. Simple fact is if this nut couldn't get his hands on a gun the toll would have been a lot less if any at all. Once again the archaic US gun laws are as much to blame as our society and this guy.
is intended to be a factual statement
How do you propose that this or any nut be prevented from getting his hands on a gun?
There was a shooting spree in Germany recently and they have way more restrictive gun laws than the US.
Brazil has much more restrictive gun laws too and it has one of the highest gun crime rates in the world.
How many gun deaths per year in Germany versus the USA or any other country.
It's an easy look up on google and proves gun laws do work. The argument that we have more people wont work either. Per capita the US is in the top top. The only country not considered third world or developing nation.
is intended to be a factual statement
Lots of qualifiers in all that.
So for you to be right, I have to exclude all "developing" nations.
I've been to Brazil. There are a lot of poor people, but it's not like the country isn't "developed" whatever that means.
What about South Africa? It's actually pretty developed compared to the rest of Africa. Poor, yes.
Now look at Switzerland. Almost everyone there has a firearm of some sort. Gun violence is very low, comparable to other European countries.
Now let's look at the US. There are shitloads of poor people here too. Way more than in Germany. Per capita and everything. But there is also way more violent crime in general. Not just crime involving guns. Americans are just more violent for some reason.
So you are trying to draw causal relationships where there are none.
Even Michael Moore couldn't figure out why the US has such a high gun crime rate (or he wouldn't admit what he discovered in his film).
It has jack shit to do with gun laws.
I think it's because you worship money in America. In America if you don't have money you're a nobody.
Maybe the guy didn't want to be poor: he had just lost his job.
"If the US government enforced its banking laws like it did its park regulations, we wouldn't be
in this damn park in the first place." OCCUPY.!!
you just almost hit the nail on the head.
the reason why people use guns is out of fear. there is a lot of fear in our society. fear of losing a job, fear of losing your house, fear of losing your life to illness, fear of being in debt, etc. this is what causes people to act like barbarians. people in these situations feel like they are the only ones looking out for them.
so how do these nations compare. there are less poor people in places like germany, switzerland, spain, etc. when people lose their jobs or got sick in these contries, they are taken care of. inherently they have less to fear. because there is a safety net for them, they don't get outraged and go on killing sprees.
this doesn't mean there isn't violence or crime in these areas. i lived in spain for quite some time and there is some violence, but mostly from teenagers and drug criminals. there is very little murder, and what murder there is is just usually drug related or from bad people in society (i.e. unhappy husbands that kill their families). these places have significant problems with immigration as well, but as a whole people are not crazy about it, because they know they will be taken care of if something happens.
this is the basic premise of "bowling for columbine". guns can be legal, we just need a society where we don't make people feel like they need to turn them on each other to survive.
how do we do that? how about basic health coverage for all? how about more homeless shelters and help for the lower class and the underpriveledged? how about more unemployment help in times of economic dispair?
And what kind of modern gun control laws would you propose?
Something that will make the NRA scream their lungs out.
Why not ban the possession outright of all semiauto and auto guns. Bolt action rifles and shotguns, revolvers allowed only.
Any historic or collector guns could be kept at a gun club, secure firing range. There are historians and sane keen gun people, allow them to have collections but only in safe places.
Of course that's all that matters.
That's helpful, instead of proposing something that would help society, you would rather just annoy a special interest group, and a powerful one at that.
The anti-gun stance that has become entrenched with leftist politics is a major turn off to a large contingent of individuals who are otherwise fairly progressive. It's one of my major complaints with the democratic party.
Gun control doesn't work.
Countries with no legal Assault Weapons, tend not to have many and repeated gunmen going on rampages killing 10+ peoples at a time.
So get over it and get with the program.
And dont use Mexico as a case example, that place barely counts as having gov, not a sane in control one anyway.
People don't go on rampages with assault weapons. This guy used a 9mm. Same with Virginia tech. These aren't assault weapons. Get with the program.
The Vatech killer didn't have "A" 9mm gun. He had a few guns with multiple easy to load cartridges. A Glock 19 and a Wather 22. Do your homework.
is intended to be a factual statement
The US has 300M people and 30,000 gun deaths annually.
The UK has 60M people and 50 gun deaths annually.
They have to be doing something right, we have to be doing something wrong.
How many murders do they have per capita compared to the US?
You have to make accurate comparisons.
How many murders occurred in large cities versus small towns? What's the ratio of that in the UK and the US? What's the poverty rate in the US versus the UK? On and on.
England has long had a low murder and violent crime rate (going back hundreds of years). Strict gun control has only been in effect for a few decades. In those decades, the violent crime rate and murder rate started to rise. In the year 1900, long before gun control, London had 3 murders by gun. New York probably had much more as you can imagine.
http://64.203.107.114/alexander/edition.asp?i...
Whatever it is that they are "doing right" it has jack to do with gun restrictions. Actually, the stricter they make their gun laws, the higher their murder rate climbs.
You've gotten your panties in a bunch. I'm sorry the facts are inconvienent to you.
I pointed out how your "facts" are misleading.
Our gun death rate is 100 times higher than in the UK.
And it has nothing to do with restrictive gun laws.
n/c
England has ALWAYS had a low murder rate and violent crime rate, even when it had NO gun laws.
Now that they have some of the most restrictive gun laws in the world, their murder and violent crime rates are increasing.
This doesn't prove that stricter gun laws cause increased violent crime.
It does prove that stricter gun laws don't prevent it.
Their gun control laws will keep it that way.
Our gun murder rate it 100 times thiers. We've practically got more guns than toilet paper in this country. If guns don't exist, people can't kill themselves with them. Talk about having a hard head.
http://www.fff.org/freedom/0694e.asp
Was an NRA link not handy enough?
(nc)
I'm just superstitious enough to hedge my bets.
n/c
I am not getting into it with you and respond to your "I know you are, but what am I", I just thought that slapping up wheygey wasn't particularly polite. I thought you were both making good points. You might consider that I am not going to add to your conversation because I don't need to get barked at for no reason either.
Anyway, walking away from pointless interweb flame kerfuffle.
I'm just superstitious enough to hedge my bets.
Then you rant on. Typical.
....Oh shrill interwebber. I, ill-advisadly, replied to your reply.
And typical of what?
Truly done. Why waste time?
[walks away shaking head]
I'm just superstitious enough to hedge my bets.
you can't just walk away. What's typical is just someone that says one thing, then does another. No worries.
the numbers are fairly clear, per capita wise, since that is your request. The UK per capita gun murder rate is much lower than the US. But here I'll turn on my handy calculator and do the math...
300,000,000 / 60,000,000 = 5. So in lay terms, the US has 5 times the population of the UK. BTW I believe the UK is the approximate size of the Colorado.
30,000 / 50 = 600. So the US has 5 times the population and 600 times the gun deaths.
Small town, big city, rural, with numbers like that I think the UK wins in the less gun deaths per capita no matter how the fuck you parse it.
Lately, stabbing has been the bane of the UK constabulary.
me-oww!
Being so logical (SFnmad @15:31)
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
No real need for citizens to have automatic pistols or rifles.
Revolvers or shotguns are more than adequate for self and home defense.
More special than peoples right to live and not be shot, pray tell why.
I live in Australia, and gun homicide is nearly nonexistent.
There have been no mass shootings since the one that led to the ban. Only ranchers and hunters can get a gun, and the laws are strict.
The difference in my feeling of safety here and in the U.S. is palpable.
First of all, automatic weapons are already prohibited. Secondly, how would prohibiting semi-auto weapons help? There are people who can shoot single actions guns just as fast as semi-auto. Banning classes of firearms only drives up the price for people who will actually purchase them, not those who are going to steal them.
They are legal now.
No they are not. the assault weapons ban did not ban automatic weapons. It banned weapons that looked similar to them. It was a worthless piece of legislation, do some research. The National firearms act of 1934 did banned automatic weapons. That act is still in effect.
Hate to break it to you, but virtually all handguns are semi-auto, meaning you get to fire a shot every time you pull the trigger.
Have you ever fired a gun? A handgun? A high-powered hunting rifle? Just wondering.
The problem isn't semi-auto weapons per se, it's the advent of large capacity magazines. With the exception of .22 squirrel rifles and the M1911 .45, most semi-autos used to hold 5 or 6 rounds at most. Now virtually every handgun holds 14 rounds at least, and you can get 30-round banana clips for most clip-bearing rifles. Obviously wackos couldn't kill dozens of people with a 6-round revolver, because somebody would have time to stop them while they reloaded.
You can get 30 round clips for 9mm handguns.
I could buy (like) two or three handguns to solve that simple little problem.
If I were really smart and wanted to go for maximum death however...I would choose the almighty SUV...with a high capacity turbo hemi V-8
(I could take out hundreds of people on just one tank of gas.)
"I'm an exellent driver"
audit-prosecute-incarcerate
With a Keltec Sub 2000 40 Caliber Assault Rifle (the kind she kills wolves with):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xj5PI0NKe0U
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
Must have missed this video last year.
You want me to come out with a comprehensive plan right now? Hold on me and my dog will get to work on it and you'll be the first person I email our plan to.
is intended to be a factual statement
Well, you seemed to have the answers before.
how terrible, looking at a situation and hoping for a change because the current one isn't working!
they've been demonizing anything that's not whitebread and get away with it because no one can get past their screeners to challenge their lies and distortions.
with the way IBM keeps fucking with people from that area - I hate to say it, but sooner or later it was bound to happen. I'm just surprised IBM wasn't shot up instead...
Before enlightenment - chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment - chop wood, carry water.
I wasn't hoping or planning for this to happen - but if you screw with people long enough, things are bound to happen.
I just wonder why he went into an immigration office, and not IBM if he was upset about losing his job...
argh... dammit... unsubstantiated speculation. I'll shut up now.
Before enlightenment - chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment - chop wood, carry water.
No job, no means of supporting a GF, so prob the visa application was denied.
Hate to break it to you, but virtually all handguns are semi-auto, meaning you get to fire a shot every time you pull the trigger.
Have you ever fired a gun? A handgun? A high-powered hunting rifle? Just wondering.
The only thing we know for sure is that these people were killed and some injured today. The police won't even confirm the guy's name yet. There could be a zillion reasons this man lost his mind and did what he did. We do know one other thing for sure, this is one sad heartbreaking day for the families of those who were killed.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
He went into a place where the main class of people he'd find would be immigrants. Victims in cases like these are specifically targeted - he MEANT to kill immigrants. Not even illegal immigrants, mind you. Just anybody from another country, trying to come here to live, just like this asshole's ancestors. Five'll get you ten he was a Dobbs fan.
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
So you're saying native-born Americans have no right to be angry about losing their jobs to immigrants?
...so that gives one the right to kill them?
They love exploiting this kind of stuff.
Sick
games. Numb and dumb. Hey lighten up it's just a game man!
Unless the shooter left a note, we will never know exactly what was going through his mind as he planned this. By parking his car across the exit doors, he did plan it and he didn't want anyone to escape his plan.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
That's obvious.
will be saying . . Now their gonna' take our guns, our semi automatics away from us!
1. India
2. Russia
3. Colombia
4. South Africa
5. Mexico
6. America
7. Venezuela
8. Thailand
9. Ukraine
10. Indonesia
"We won't stop until we're #1.'
...just cant be stopped.
Anyone who was obviously "falling down" like this guy has made a decision to kill...period.
If a gun were not available to this man he would have just went home for the SUV instead.
lets be thankful he didnt get the bright idea to kill even more people by joyriding down a sidewalk full of people in a 400 horsepower Cadillac Escalade.
We will probly find out this guy was on Prozac or Paxil or something...
audit-prosecute-incarcerate
to varying degrees but these types seem to want to get some media recognition and fame on the way out.
no doubt under the influence of the stash of Blobfish/Dobbs/O'Reilly junk that will doubtless be found in his hovel.
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
left wing junk or worse Ron Paul stuff just as easy.
That seems to be the common factor in these spree shootings.
The shooter always seems to be on some kind of psychotropic drug.
I'm not saying that the drugs cause them to lose it, because they must have already had problems. That's why they got on the drug. But, maybe the drug doesn't solve the mental problem and actually makes it worse?
A lot of people cant handle the sharp reality, maybe he couldn't afford his meds, its bad enough quiting smoking, let alone the brain meds they hand out like candy these days.
These drugs are the common factor with most teen shooters.
quick, quick, blame something other than guns! bet you're loving that.
...with a knife.
WHEN the hell are we going to get it through our heads that letting people run around with fucking LETHAL WEAPONS is a really REALLY stupid idea?
And get away from me with that 2nd Amendment crap. That was written 200 years ago. Besides the fact that it was never intended to allow people to carry fucking assault rifles around, it was written back when guns were commonly needed to procure food. THAT'S NOT THE CASE ANYMORE. Now we use guns (HANDGUNS, which didn't even exist when the 2nd Amendment was written) almost exclusively to kill people. Did the Founding Fathers intend for Americans to have automatic weapons to mow down their fellow citizens with? NOT FUCKING LIKELY.
It's a stupid, antiquated rule, and it's about time we threw it out.
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
yeah i say lets stick to killing afgans iraqys and them packistanys!
1. Yes it was. It was intended for people to be able to possess military grade weapons.
2. The shooter here used handguns.
"1. Yes it was. It was intended for people to be able to possess military grade weapons."
Then, by your logic, we should all have missile silos in our backyards and Apache gunships in our garages.
...large sport utility vehicles.
Our founding fathers never anticipated or intended for Americans to drive around in dangerous 3 ton 400 horsepower fucking land yahts. and now we have thousands of deaths every year, due to large motor vehicles in the hands of inexperienced irresponsible Americans.
Such power needs to be regulated or banned totally. (Who the hell really needs a big SUV anyway) And also having a big SUV makes it way too easy to kill large numbers of people with one little turn of the wheel...
And you would be shocked if you knew how easy it is for an underage/unlicenced teenage kid (or anyone) for that matter to steal the car keys from moms purse. (happens all the time)
(dont get me started on household chemicals which can be used to poison people)
audit-prosecute-incarcerate
............. is that Voong used a gun. All the speculation here about his "profile" is just so much pissing into the wind. None of that will make the slightest difference to his victims and to those they left behind. What matters is the absurdly easy access to guns of all types in this country. We have to do something about that!
He used a car to block the doors, and a gun to shoot the people.
I say ban both types of "lethal weapons"
audit-prosecute-incarcerate
I thought that the person who did this, in light of his targeting immigrants and recently losing his job, I thought it was a right wing radio addict and immigrant hater... Now, I don't know what to think.
My prayers are with the victims and their families.
I've never seen change without a fire
That was my first reaction, as well.
I'm sure a lot of right wing, Dobbs/O'Reilly/Fox freaks are wiping off their brows tonight after hearing this nut was an immigrant himself, with a weird, foreign name. I'm sure, as fucking idiotic as all racists are, they're smart enough to know what would have happened to their cause if it turned out this guy was a confirmed Rush/Fox fan, and had it on constantly, was buying all their hate, and acting on it.
Bastards probably *are* relieved to find out it wasn't one of them responsible...
I've never seen change without a fire
http://promigrant.org/diary/636/tragedy-at-am...
Do we call it the
1.Dobbs Masacre
2.The Faux News Massacre
3. Or the Bachman Armed and Dangerous Masacre
Good name for crackpot fans of BillO
I find it disturbing that Biden's first instinct is to go for the guns. Guns aren't the problem.
Fox News is the problem. Beck, Riley, Hannity and all the others who preach their hate. Who tell their disturbed fans we need violent action against the others. That's who Biden should blame. Creating more gun laws will not effect anything. Unless the law prevents people who Fox News a certain amount of hours or thinks Ann Coulter is a reasonable woman from buying a gun, it will do no good.
I'm not saying Fox News should be censored. Censorship, even of dangerous ideas, is unacceptable. But Biden can still put the blame where it really lays.
You folks with simple solutions to complex social problems that vary from region to region are so full of shit. Ask an inner city law enforcement officer who has to apprehend criminals who have weapons far superior to what they have...but of course you need that assault rifle to hunt rabbits.
All have collections of rifles and shotguns (of various quality), stuff that IS usable for hunting.
Nobody mentions assault rifles, even in passing, those things are toys of the militia types (wannabes or actual) and paranoid reichwingers.
Witness those 11 or 12 idiots turning up at the protests in London driving an APC, all dressed up in fake uniforms, they had fantasys of being helpers to the police and defending the Bank of England from the leftwingscum protesters.
They all got arrested for their stupidity.
Wild speculation is for idiots. We all know this was god's intended sign that...
"If the US government enforced its banking laws like it did its park regulations, we wouldn't be
in this damn park in the first place." OCCUPY.!!
...some heavily-armed citizen went to the NYSE and started harvesting traders?
Think that would do anything to energize the gun control issue?
Sure as eggs are eggs.
...if only everybody in the room was packing a gun they could have defended themselves!
... you would pray someone else had a gun to protect you.
Flowers and reason does not work with maniacs on psychotropic drugs. I wonder which drug this guy was on.
Let's wait and see shall we...
... makes as much sense as Drill, baby, drill.
...dead and buried.
and how many people should die to keep you alive?
In places that allow carry.
So that blows that self defense idea out of the window.
Check out this guy's video and his weird pro-gun, anti-immigrant diatribe getting ripped apart:
http://tr.im/ieiM
...if there were armed law abiding citizens nearby.
Nothing against police. But they will more than likely NOT be there in moments of life and death.
All good citizens should be able to defend themselves and brandish weapons of self-defense. It keeps us safer. Period.
My cousin was shot and paralyzed, his best friend murdered by a gang in my town. I wonder if things would be different if they would have been given an even chance to defend themselves.
I hold those who shot those bullets culpable, but I also hold the City of Los Angeles and the State of California culpable for restrictiing their right to defend themselves with equal force.
Chicago, Washington D.C., New York have the most gun restrictive laws, which are un-constitutional, in the nation and yet they have more gun related crimes than those cities with "right to carry" laws.
Think twice those who want to abolish guns. It will lead to more crime by those who are happy to prey upon us. You can be a Democrat and also Pro-Second Amendment.
I moved from Los Angeles, where I narrowly avoided getting caught in gang gunfire and had frequent gang drivebys in my neighborhood, to a country with a gun ban. There's certainly not MORE crime because of it. On the contrary, gun deaths are nearly unheard of, and homicides in general are infrequent.
The reason there are so many guns in California is because its bordering states have lax gun policies, like Nevada and Arizona. Same holds true for other big cities, like Philly and New York, which have tough gun policies, but border West Virginia.
The simple truth is, Gun = Potential Murder.
Sorry about your cousin, but had he been armed, he'd have been just as likely to have been shot, would have only increased the number of guns and the potential for more murder.
Guns will always be around and they will always fall into the hands of criminals. You are misguided if you think guns are the problem.
I can offer another event that happened to my grandfather years ago where he used a gun to defend his home and no one was killed. These things happen all the time and never reported. Simple truth Gun = the saved life of my grandfather and aunt. That's real.
A .45 handgun can put a 65 year old woman on a an equal standing as a 250 pound criminal. Nothing else can do that.
I don't understand how you would defend your family against a mob of criminals or a psycho. Would you just cower? The gun a tool for defense, nothing more.
Anything can be used to murder. Murder has been around way before handguns ever made an appearance on this earth.
We cannot let the media put fear into our mindset anymore. It's time we stand up and fight for what made this country great. Self responsibility, respect and honor.
Just so you know. The second this government bans the rest of our guns is the day criminals will have their day with all of us. We'd be open for invasion as well.
Unless of course we call those people who do have guns like the national guard or military. Then we don't have a free nation at that point. That's what your mindset will lead too.
I'm sorry but I think you are well meaning but completely wrong.
I don't understand how you would defend your family against a mob of criminals or a psycho. Would you just cower? The gun a tool for defense, nothing more.
-----------------------
And it's being used as a tool for mass murder.
You are completely wrong here.
So have cigarettes....
Have you seen what is being sprayed over American cities in a constant barrage of chemtrails filled with Barium and Aluminum.
Some believe these are soft kill weapons aimed at us.. Check into it Professor.
How many lives would have been saved if there was gun registration and background checks to prevent nutballs from having guns?
and that should prove fertile...
but, hopefully the investigators turned on his radio... his television...
besides looking over the reading material... and video collection...
surely the pros think of these things...
1) how nonchalant everyone is about 13 people being gunned down. Just another day in the U.S.
2) how everyone is so defensive of the right of everyone to have guns.
3) how even people who've had friends or family killed with weapons think that everyone having a weapon would make the country safer.
It's pure idiocy.
The U.S. is a case study in what happens when everyone can have guns: huge numbers of people get shot and killed in a variety of ways. From mass random shootings to targeted gang shootings to accidental child shootings to internal family shootings to disgruntled employee shootings, there is only one culprit: Guns.
Just another nasty sad but normal news item in the US,
along with all the other mostly preventable sh1t that happens.
$5 says it will happen again in x weeks time. When times are tough and people lose job and homes, people tend to go insane.
I am definitely horrified by the murders.
As for your third point, I don't fall into that category. One of the more recent times there's been gun control discussions in a thread, I took the time to write about how guns have impacted my life and the lives of those around me and in my community for the worse, but I felt like the gun owners that replied felt the need to sort of patronize the histrionics of a little lady that's never so much as held a gun in her life, if you get my drift. I decided not to waste the energy today. I've been busy all day, and I'm tuckered out.
But I am very saddened by this, and again, my thoughts and prayers are with the families...
I've never seen change without a fire
It's a terrible tragedy. I know how this feels first hand. My little cousin was shot and paralyzed. His friend murdered by a gang in San Pedro,CA. The people who did this shot many bullets before they got out of their car and walked over to my cousins car and reached inside to shoot Johnny.
If one of my cousins friends had been armed and started firing back, perhaps they could have repelled them. Perhaps they would not have gotten out of the car and put 6 bullets into Johnny.
We must understand that we have been inundated with news about shooting after shooting throughout our lives. So we as a society have become frightened of guns. But that is only half the story of guns.
There are many more lives and people saved from rape and other crimes such as home invasion because someone brandished a gun. We don't here about those because the establishment is intent on restricting our Second Amendment rights.
And last but not least, if the forefathers did not have guns, we would still be under the rule of the Queen.
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