A few words about Obama's speech
I thought the president was very good Wednesday night and his speech has seemed to change the media's dynamic on health care as well as start to bring people back to reality on this issue. He was more forceful combating Republican lies than ever been before and that was much appreciated.
It did freak Karl Rove out a little bit on FOX. On The Factor, he was upset that the president debunked the phony "death panel" lies that conservatives and teabaggers have been yelling about every since they discovered Isakson's amendment. (Isakson is a Republican, I might add.) Karl said that conserva-teabaggers were only upset about the living will option and never brought up death panels, so he tried to call Obama a liar, but that's the lie.
Rove conveniently forgot Sen. Charles Grassley talking about "death panels," or Betsy McCaughey doing same. And of course there's the wacky Sarah Palin Facebook post that was promoting the idea that Obama wants to kill grandma. Rove basically lied by pretending that conservatives were only upset about Isakson's language.
Still, I thought Obama was too nice to the Republicans all night. I know it was more theater than reality because he still wants America to believe that there's hope for bipartisanship, but it bothers me. All they have done is spread lies about health-care reform the entire time, but the president just isn't going to be as partisan as I'd like him to be. I have to accept it.
I actually didn't think he would mention the public option at all since the Queen, Olympia Snowe, asked him not to, but he had to because of us. We can still battle to have it included because he's still talking about it and has campaigned on it.
He wasn't as forceful about it as I wanted, but he's talking to many people that have been lied to for months by Republicans, so I kind of understand his phrasing of it. He did open up the possibility of other options which made me shudder, but we'll keep pushing. We're his base and the base will help save him in the long run.
Sen. Tom Harkin had another take on it today on MSNBC. He said that because Obama said the public option was only a small part of the solution for health care then that would force many others to vote for the bill even if a public option is included. By downplaying its significance he believes it strengthens the chances that it gets passed. I hadn't looked at it that way before, but with Rahm and his Blue Dogs trying to undo the public option I don't have as much faith in his premise. There's still a long way to go and we'll keep fighting.
One of the best writers on health care has been Jonathan Cohn of TNR, and he writes:
Looks like there's some news in the speech after all. Quite a bit.
On the policy front, President Obama tonight endorses, clearly and unambiguously, a requirement that everybody obtain insurance--that is, an individual mandate. He has not done that before, not this explicitly.
He also says employers will have to provide insurance or bear some of the costs. That's not news exactly; he's said that before. But it's part of the same package.
{}
Also of interest: A promise to provide low-cost, bare-bones policies right away--merely as a stopgap, until full reforms kick in. (This is an effort to make sure Americans see at least some benefits right away.) Elsewhere, Obama talks about malpractice reform--again, more explicitly than he has before, presenting it as an effort to reach across the aisle.
And the public plan? He gives a lengthy, strong defense of the idea. It could have come straight out of the literature of groups like Health Care for America Now -- or the writings of Jacob Hacker. But he also makes clear, to left as well as right, that he's open to compromise.
Those seem like the major developments on the policy front. The tone is pretty striking, too. Obama reaches out to Republicans in several places. But he also comes down hard--very hard--on opponents who are merely out to defeat reform.
And I wish he would have mentioned more liberals to the nation that have been working hard to reform health care instead of praising John McCain, but he did close with a nice ode to Ted Kennedy.
The Kennedy passage was beautiful. He even used the dreaded "L" word, which I haven't heard in that setting without a sneer for ... well, ever. I don't know how many people can hear that plea for empathy and community, but I hope some did.
By the way, FOX had their news scroll running during the entire speech and it highlighted as many crazy stories as it could. And then the first ad they broadcast after the speech was one where a Canadian woman said Canada's government-run health care almost killed her. That was timed just right for the teabagger audience.
Some things never change.
... by collectively saying "who? us?"
I did not agree with everything Obama had to say on Wednesday, but as far as speeches go... he is truly a master orator (hold the infantile jokes for a second ;-) ). So for Rove, whose boy Bush conducted a life long struggle with the English language, to come on TeeVee to give an analysis of somebody else's speech is just too hypocritical for words.
F*ck you Rove. Shouldn't that vermin be in jail, btw?
A Tribute to those people who died on September 11, 2001 but who should not have died. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yKGeIGA2KE Spread this video around.
rove's opinion on ANYTHING!
I agree. Rove is nothing more than a dirty pool player.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
is a pool dirtier.
LMAO!
NOBODY 2012
Fox values Rove's braying enough to spend good money on it. That is reason enough to be concerned.
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Dear Karl (R)ove,
YOU LIE!
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Starve the WAR Beast...
... Save the World.
I liked Obama's speech as well, and I particularly liked it when he used the word "lie" when referring to the death panels.
Obama and Democrats need to keep stressing that repug talking heads and politicans are LYING in an effort to spread fear and in an effort to kill health care reform.
Almost every repug talking head and politician I have heard talk about the speech was upset that Obama was too "partisan." Well, I'm glad he was, but the fact is, the repugs are the ones who are extreme partisans.
Healthcare Reform?----Maybe Next Year............and maybe not....
Aside from going after the Republicans, Obama need to go after the corporate media. But this is a tough nut to crack: he need the media to broadcast his message. Fox didn't even show the speech the other night, airing So You Think You Can Dance instead.
A network that won't even show the speech has no business commenting on it.
noah,
FOXPRAVDA aired it while FOXENTERTAINMENT didn't.
Those WITH cable had a choice to watch the President on FOXPRAVDA or not. Those without cable had less a choice.
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Starve the WAR Beast...
... Save the World.
... about killing grandma and illegal aliens, but he did nothing to take on the actual goals of the right: delay or destruction of any reform; back door deals with PhRMA and other players to guarantee profits; elimination or castration of a strong public option; no mention whatsoever of single payer....
He didn't take those on so much as adopt them.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
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Q U E S T I O N:
If the "LIBRUL MEDIA" is supposed to be "Liberal" and panders to a "Liberal" agenda, set on indoctrinating the Nation with it's "Liberal" message...
... Then why does this "LIBRUL MEDIA" not speak of "SINGLE PAYER"?
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Starve the WAR Beast...
... Save the World.
This just in from Physicians for a National Health Program:
New uninsured figures show Massachusetts, touted as model for national reform, is failing to cover the uninsured
17,000-member organization of physicians says latest numbers understate the problem and show urgent need for single-payer health reform.
Official estimates released this morning by the Census Bureau showing a marginal increase in the number of Americans without health insurance in 2008 - now estimated at 46.3 million, up from 45.7 million in 2007 - masks the true dimensions of the problem, a national doctors' group said.
Significantly, in Massachusetts, where an individual-mandate health reform law, much like what President Obama is proposing on a national scale, was passed in 2006, at least 352,000 people, or 5.5 percent of the population, remained uninsured in 2008. That number was actually (but non-significantly) higher than the number of uninsured in 2007, before strict enforcement of the individual and employer mandates went into effect.
"The legislation championed by the president and the congressional leadership is a virtual clone of the Massachusetts plan," said Dr. Steffie Woolhandler, professor of medicine at Harvard Medical School and co-founder of Physicians for a National Health Program (PNHP). "Today's numbers show that plans that require people to buy private insurance don't work. Obama's plan to replicate Massachusetts' reform nationally risks failure on a massive scale."
Link here:
http://www.pnhp.org/change/Why-MA-style-Refor...
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
The Massachusetts plan is not a failure. I am not sure how that is being concluded. By a lot of criteria it has been a big success. Read this:
http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=a...
"In 2006, before the law was enacted, the uninsured rate in the state was 13%. In 2007, after the law was enacted, the uninsured rate was 7%, a drop of fifty percent. These numbers demonstrate promise in the nation's only universally mandated health care system.
Numbers also released by the Massachusetts Department of Revenue show that 95% of the state's taxpayers are insured, which is impressive indeed. The numbers of low-income people who had access to care also increased, from 79.5 percent in 2006 to 83.1 percent in 2007. Another important benchmark, people who said they didn't receive adequate health care due to cost, dropped from 27.3 percent in 2006 to 16.9 percent in 2007, a significant drop."
http://www.online-health-insurance.com/articl...
"Pundits and politicians who oppose universal healthcare for the nation have a new straw man to kick around - the Massachusetts reform plan that covers more than 97 percent of the state’s residents. In the myth that these critics have manufactured, this state’s plan is bleeding taxpayers dry, creating nothing less than a medical Big Dig.
The facts - according to the Massachusetts Taxpayers Foundation - are quite different. Its report this spring put the cost to the state taxpayer at about $88 million a year, less than four-tenths of 1 percent of the state budget of $27 billion. Yes, the state recently had to cut benefits for legal immigrants, and safety-net hospital Boston Medical Center has sued for higher state aid. But that is because the recession has cut state revenues, not because universal healthcare is a boondoggle. The main reason costs to the state have been well within expectations? More than half of all the previously uninsured got coverage by buying into their employers’ plans, not by opting for one of the state-subsidized plans.
This should be exciting news for those fiscal conservatives, including both Republicans and “blue dog’’ Democrats, who claim to support the goal of universal coverage while despairing over its budget impact. But that’s not what you hear from the Massachusetts bashers."
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2...
And what is being proposed is not exactly the Massachusetts plan. The Adminstration has learned from the faults of that plan, primarily to find a way to pay for it first.
"...not exactly the Massachusetts plan", eh?
Well, according to a participant in the recent town hall meeting Sen. Kerry attended in Somerville, Massachusetts Sen. Kerry said, "We are looking at a federal health care reform plan that looks like the plan in Massachusetts."
Well here is the best website I have seen with information regarding the TRUTH about The Mass Plan. Maybe you could take five minutes to peruse it Phillip1? Here it is in case you've missed it before in my posts:
www.masshealthlawtruth.org
At this website you will find many links to articles by Trudy Lieberman from The Columbia Journalism Review and more, including testimonials from Mass. residents and their experiences with the Mass Plan.
Let's also not forget the KEY element of H.R. 3200 is that it will be MANDATED WITH PENALTIES/FINES for those who do not comply. That sounds like the Mass Plan to me.
I'd appreciate it (and I think many posters here would as well), if you would explain to us how "the Administration has learned from the FAULTS of the Mass Plan...primarily a way to pay for it first"??
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
He said he would not waste time with those whose stance is to kill reform. Adoption! Get real. Politics are politics. If you don't like the Prez just say so. Don't play verbal games.
not the Beck/Hammity ticket. Those people are in the minority.
I do not accept the President's lack of partisanship. People worked their asses of to get the guy a win, and he's letting them down, and every one who got up and registered to vote for the first time -- just everyone who voted -- we're all being let down by this shitty gamesmanship and a lack of leadership on our leader's part.
me-oww!
...you're just going to give up? That's exactly what Corporate America wants you to do - just lie back and accept your fate.
Nothing worth having can be had without a struggle. The fight wasn't over when Obama was sworn in - it's just begun.
I agree miss_kitty. This bi-partisan approach is wrong headed and a slap in the face to many people on the left. We elected the Democrats so they could accomplish things that we want. Not what the Republicans want. If the Republicans chose to share our goals, then fine. If not, they should be told to shut the hell up so the adults can get things done. I'm tired of trying to make the Republicans happy, which they will never be anyway.
The Face of this Bipartisan Approach Gets you Nowhere Fast!
Operation Rescue President Troy Newman said that “Every fact-checking organization tells us that this is just not true. The reality is that federal funds will indeed go to pay for abortions and to subsidize private insurers that pay for abortions. There are absolutely no safeguards to prevent this funding of abortion…We also know that when taxpayer money is used to finance abortions, the number of abortions rise. That means we all become complicit in the shedding of innocent blood…. It is shameful and disturbing that Obama would stand before Congress and all of the nation, look into the camera, and lie about a matter that is of great concern to the vast majority of the American people who oppose using their hard-earned money to bail out a failing abortion industry. Obama has denigrated the office of the Presidency and played the American people for fools… We call on the American people to contact their Congressional Representatives and their Senators today and let them know that they will not allow such a deception to pass.””
Newman and Operation Rescue and other Christian organizations are going to attend a 27-hour prayer vigil in Washington, D.C. this weekend.
Read more at: http://www.operationrescue.org/
They're loud. But they're still the minority. They lost BIG last November, and they're angry. They're kicking and screaming. Obama/Biden better remember who got them in office. And the tea-birthers need to sit the f*ck down and get out of the way. Let the adults fix the mess that the kids left behind.
NOBODY 2012
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Michael Lighty of California Nurses Association on California’s Real Death Panels
By: GRITtv Thursday September 10, 2009
http://lauraflanders.firedoglake.com/2009/09/...
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Starve the WAR Beast...
... Save the World.
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A tune (R)ove can dance to...
We're Number 37
BY: Paul Hipp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVgOl3cETb4
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Starve the WAR Beast...
... Save the World.
Obama's speech shall get a B-plus for understanding the problem American face, and the prognosis of the situation, at hand. In my view, however, Obama's speech receives a FAT D-plus for providing an actual working remedy for the problem at hand with the healthcare system. Obama made some fake arguments to appease right wingers and the insurance lobby.
Obama drew a clear line with the public option. He reeally does not want it and neither does the Democratic Party leadership or Rahm Emanuel and David Axelrod. Obama said that around five percent of Americans would possibly be in this program. What about the other ninety-five percent who are not in the five percent?
The private insurance companies are the major problem with the present American healthcare system. Obama's plan strengthens the
insurance industry. These other forty seven million uninsured Americans would be forced to buy into an already bankrupted healthcare system. Having to go into such a system no doubt would continue to see the typical denial of care due to its pre-existing illness exclusions.
The present healthcare system must be replaced by pouring more money into Medicare and allowing single payer for every American!
come around 2018.
We should know by now to look beyond his vague pretty words to his actions (such as they are). Behind the scenes he is KILLING the public option and supporting the worst, most regressive aspects of the reform plans being proposed in order to keep his terms of the deal he cut with big Pharma/insurance months ago. See Robert Reich in Salon.com - http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2009/09/...
..Where's the White House? For months now, it's been straddling the fence -- reassuring the Dem base that the president is with them (he did it as recently as Monday with a rousing speech to organized labor), while at the same time nodding and winking in the direction of the private insurers and Big Pharma. Last spring the White House agreed to Big Pharma's demand that Medicare not be permitted to negotiate low drug prices in return for Pharma's agreement to support the healthcare bill emerging from the Senate Finance Committee. Since then it has quietly told private insurers that it will work with Senate Finance to find less potent alternatives to the public option, such as Kent Conrad's "cooperatives" or Olympia Snowe's "trigger" mechanism, in return for the private insurers' support of the compromise. And it has told the private insurers and Big Pharma that it will not support a surtax on the wealthy....
Obama has deceived us and there will not be a public option. He is a liar and a corporate water boy. I am dismayed at the many that cling to the image of Obama as the good guy saviour.
I am dismayed that people like you just don't take off your sheeps' skins.
"Honey, look at the end of the trail is some light. let's race to that logger's cabin before the weresheep catches us!!!"
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
list what Obama has accomplished. Instilling hope and making great speeches does not count. I see his wife grew a garden at the White House. They say she did anyway. How cute and cool.
n/t
firing synapses...
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
yesterday when another right wing host said that now it's 33 million that "can't" get insurance and before he said there was 46 million that "don't" have insurance. If Karl have any grasp of the English language, he should know the difference. I now know for a fact where the other host got his talking point from, "Karl Rove."
a diagnosed pathological liar when I was young. His sickness made him a very dangerous person to associate with. For example if you were backing out of a driveway and asked him if your blind spot was clear he would say it was even if a Mac truck was bearing down on you. He was literally incapable of telling the truth. Karl Rove strikes me as that type of person who believes that even if the truth would serve his purposes a lie must be better.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
No way I'd do the trust test whereby one falls backward and expects the friend to catch you. Rove would be off sucking KKKlanity's d*ck before your toes left the ground.
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
FOX NEWS may have an audience of 12.5 Million Plus but...
there are another 350,000,000 of us
that can STOP buying any product advertised on FOX.
boycott any company advertising on that horrid station and let them know about it too. Call their head office and watch the results.
could anyone who watches (even to see how the other side thinks)
add to list of companies / products that advertise on FN?
Accu-Chek (Roche)
Bosley.com
BuyWaterJet.com
CancerCenter.com
Carbonite.com
Cash4Gold.com
Claritin
Consumer Debt Advocate
Cooney & Conway
EasyWater.com (Freije)
EmpireToday.com
EncoreDental.com
Hydrolyze
Inhalerette
Johnson Law Group
JosBank.com
LearCapital.com
LibertyMedical.com
Merit Financial
MikeBloomberg.com
NecklineSlimmer.com
OxiClean
PulaskiLawFirm.com
RoslandCapital.com
Sandals.com
ServPro.com
SmartBalance
TDAmeritrade
TheScooterStore.com
TheVillages.com
TopDot.com
VeteranMeso.com
VideoProfessor.com
WilensAndBaker.com
ZeroWater.com
Check out http://foxnewsboycott.com/fox-news-sponsors/f...
and http://foxnewsboycott.com/fox-news-sponsors/f...
they have really done their homework!
I thought their highest rated program is Bill O's and that one has around 3 million, right?
The 3 million that watch O'reilly are watching at the same time (one show).
The 12.5 figure was adding up all their most popular shows and giving FOX the largest number of possible viewers to make the argument that at even at this most generous figure (that all their viewers are distinct) the other 350,000,000 of us, so overwhelm its audience, that a boycott could and would turn FOX into a whole different channel.
They are businesspeople and it is all about $$$.
a much needed tonic but kind of like ordering a glass of milk in a bar full of mean nasty people belting back triple shots of jack.
Activist slain outside school; 2nd man also killed
By TIM MARTIN and ED WHITE, AP
OWOSSO, Mich. — A man fatally shot an anti-abortion activist Friday outside a high school as horrified parents and students watched, then told police arresting him that he was involved in the killing of a gravel pit owner earlier that day, authorities said....Officials found the body of Mike Fuoss, 61, in the office of his gravel production company, Sheriff George Braidwood said. Fuoss and the gunman knew each other....Owosso Police Chief Michael Compeau said authorities did not know whether the suspect knew anti-abortion activist Jim Pouillon, 63, who was shot while protesting across the street from the school in the town about 70 miles northwest of Detroit....Police declined to release the gunman's identity and no other injuries were reported. No motive was given for the shootings, but Compeau said he believed Pouillon appeared to be a target..... Troy Newman, president of the anti-abortion group Operation Rescue, said he wept when he received word that Pouillon, his friend and colleague, had been killed....
Read more about this story at AP News
Whereas the opposition isn't.
I can't day I am surprised about the Head Eunuch caving in yet again.
Does anyone know if Backup pelosi is going to the same.
How do we get rid of these Photo Op sell Outs,please no more bi partisanship BS, these clowns DO NOT have a clue.
You OWN both houses SCREW the Wacko Right, knock them down then defecate in their mouths let them taste what they have been passing out to others.
and he's even getting Pelosi to back out her demands for the public option. With a majority in congress the Dems could have passed the public option *if* Obama had supported it (versus "saying" he supported it). Obama is turning out to be an utter disaster for health care reform.
Evidence has a way of proving ones point.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
All the teabuggery happened while both Congress and the President were on vacation, so one can't really blame anyone on the Democratic side for any "disaster"
Yet.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
I'm sticking with my initial assessment. Which isn't that far from John's. Good speech, not everything I wanted to hear (I am used to it though), but he left the door open for public option. Was it the best he could do? Who cares now, it's done. He used the bully pulpit, he doesn't write laws.
The press doesn't write laws either. I know this is 9/11, but maybe Monday, which will be after the weekend teabagger events is the right day to deluge Congress with the opinion of the people that aren't willing to put "Nazi" on some sign to get on Fox News. We need to take the job of framing away from them, they are failing at the job.
The job is up to Congress. Call them. Let them know what you think is health care reform. Even my local pro-reform (Dem) has been complaining about no press for non-teabaggers. Don't allow the press to frame this one. You frame it directly to your Reps (both Senators and the Congress District member) in your own words. If you wanted single-payer, even tell them that.
but my Rep. is Adam Putnam. I have learned that it is pointless to contact him with anything. I had one of his staffers laugh at the notion that America should stop kidnapping and torturing people. Her response(with a chuckle), "So you don't want to be safe?" 'Nuff said.
So, here is Putnam's response to Obama's speech:
Luckily, it is his last term in my oddly cresent shaped district-
Democrat Scott Maddox to challenge Adam Putnam for Florida agriculture commissioner job
I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America, and to the republic which it established, one nation from many peoples, promising liberty and justice for all
One of my Senators is Burr (R-NC). I had some very good discussions with his health care staffer. Then again, he is on the Senate HELP committee, so it should be no surprise his health care staffer is well-informed. And, it may be unfair to say the Republican's don't have an alternate proposal, which he was happy to discuss. Honestly, his staffer was great.
No, I don't think Senator Burr is about to sign on to this bill (the thought even made me laugh), but the exchange was polite and informative. NC has open primaries, so I can (and often do) vote in the Republican primaries as an independent. Burr has not been spewing misinformation and cheerleading teabaggers, so I was able to honestly say that will help his primary position with me in the election next year.
Florida doesn't have open primaries. I might register Republican if I lived there. Start tossing the nuts out in the primaries. You can always vote for the Dem in the final election if the worst Republican wins (assuming the Dem isn't also a nut - it is the South). I'd still make a fuss though. At least let the staffers know that some of their constituents will be unhappy. Heck, just tell them you're switching to Republican just so you can vote against them in the primary. Get their attention.
We've got our own funny districts up here too.
These buffoons will never go away unless there is motivation to do so...MAYBE, Rove being led off the streets in CUFFS will help. Beck being locked up for in-sightment..That should probably include hanratty and limberger.
These people are an embarrassment, worldwide, to the US and should be made examples of. They need to be re-taught how NOT to act in a reasonably serious situation. They seem not to care what the rest of the world thinks of us and that's left over from chimpy's dictatorship...well, that's done and it's time for these two-bit hooligans to be put in their place. A few years in jail may help...Deportation may help...don't care which but these small, non-relevant people just need to leave...
Politically it is a very good idea to continue to reach out to Republicans. Of course Obama knows Republicans will not help, but it is the politically smart thing to do.
If healthcare passes, he can say look we did it with no Republican help. We tried to get them involved, but they were only the party of no. The Dems can claim all the victory.
If healthcare fails, Dems can say well we tried to get it done, but the Republicans blocked it. We tried to get them involved, but they did nothing, which helped it to collapse.
Ultimately, a healthcare bill will pass and the Republicans will look like idiots for not doing anything or not being involved in anyway.
Obama is set-up very nicely for a re-election in 2012. By then the economy should be well recovered, passing a healthcare bill will be very big, and most of our troops will be out of Iraq. Obama really has nothing to worry about, especially if he gets some healthcare done. It will alone likely put millions and millions of newly insured voters in his camp.
A healthcare bill will be the Republicans "Waterloo". Actually, just the next Waterloo in their series of Waterloos, as they continue their decent into madness.
Is Rove going to be DeLay's dance partner?
for Obama to even entertain the idea of 'tort reform' in this debate.
medical malpractice suits have been well documented to cost us 1% of our overall health care costs.
medical malpractice suits are one of the only recourses left to anyone who has had a loved one mistreated, and at times even killed, through malpractice and / or negligence.
to imply that 'tort reform' is part of the problem with our health care system is disgusting.
you were reading some of the asinine comments gracing this site before, during, and after the speech. It was a sickening site to behold.
Almost just as many Obama haters here as at Townhall.
Are you saying C&L is a sickening site? That's not very nice.
That's not what he's saying. Go read some of the comments on the speech thread. It appears that some people will never be happy with our President, no matter what he does or says. I dare say some people aren't who they portray themselves to be Cal. Get ready. Cause they ain't gonna stop.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
It's a variation of the old "More righteous than thou;" it's, "More liberal than thou."
Or perhaps those who supported other candidates who haven't recovered and are shamming.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
The man speaketh from both sides of the mouth, pretending to be for the most crucial reform of modern times, while utterly undermining and sabotaging it, from all appearances to appease his corporate benefactors. This is *the* big domestic issue of modern times, one's stand on it really defining who is and is not a Democrat; for this as* to be undermining any meaningful attempts at reform in order to line his own pockets - while continuing to pretend he supports it while wearing a big self-satisfied grin - is beyond despicable. Perhaps you need to pay more attention to his actions and where they are leading to..
But some proof to back up your claims would be nice.
Otherwise, you're coming off as a ........
What is your conceptual, continuity?
I think he's trying to appease his voters.
A large portion of his support in the election came not just from Democrats but also Independents. It's the latter he has to be concerned about in 2012, unless someone can mount a significant campaign for the Democratic nomination.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
I see what your saying, and it's a very good point.
If he pulls off this healthcare issue, and ends up forcing the ins industry to bring down their costs, then he will have succeeded. But we both know there is still the issue of actual heathcare reform to be dealt with.
I have to say, he nailed it when he said there are many facets to this .
Can you imagine, getting his job, with all the bs he has to deal with? The weak in the knees need not apply.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
As an independent, it's what I've been hearing.
This is a poll from generally conservative-leaning Rasmussen. Here is what they found:
"According to Rasmussen without the public option support for reform has actually declined among Democrats and independents."
From the original Rasmussen write-up this:
As for those not affiliated with either major party, 70% are opposed if the public option is dropped. That’s up from 62% in the previous survey.
That is opposed to this bill, if the public option is dropped. I'm like 70% of the independents, whee. I think the other 30% are libertarians and constitutionalists.
If this comes up short, and the PO is not in it, The Prez has no one to blame but himself. He should have come out swinging a long time ago. Then, I suspect, those figures would be different.
One more thing, according to his speech the other night. The PO is in the proposed bill. But to be honest, it's not strong enough for my likings. But then again, I would like to see HR 676. Single payer.
And yet again, we have to wait and see what they finally come up with.
My money is on the public option. So, if you have insurance? I'd drop it.
So you can qualify for it. That's a shitty deal. It should be open ended for anyone who wants it.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
I thought coming out swinging is what got Clenis in trouble.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
with a 6 inch bat.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
The problem is, it is in, but only for those who can't afford insurance, and maybe in place of COBRA.
I would wish it were larger, if for no other reason than to provide the competition as a preventative of insurance premiums hitting the stratosphere.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
My biggest worry though is the payscale and self-funding only via premiums requirement. The blue dog version sets them up so the plan would have to charge high premiums with very few providers in its network. It is designed to fail (and help almost no one by being unaffordable with low choice of providers). This version will never grow much. It would be just like having no option in the bill, except for causing bureaucracy.
So which version goes in the final bill (assuming one makes it) will be the deciding factor on whether it can grow to a size to do the intended job, or if it is too crippled to survive being the initial start-up as the insurer of last resort. But the good version requires start-up funding to be budget neutral. Will they have the guts to tax something/someone?
And even then it won't even start for several years. Just for that insult, it should be the better version, not the crippled one that is used.
I have been commenting here for well nearly three years and have seen the changes.
I thought she was joking about anything being sickening, considering the issue we're talking about is health care.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
or more progressive than thee, or.....
If she is joking, my sincere apology. Maybe humor is different in Cannuck land. Maybe!
Canuckistan?:)
What is your conceptual, continuity?
I was just making a joke about your use of the word "site" instead of "sight", chicano2nd.
Lighten up you guys!
ps, your apology is accepted :)
This whole thing about the Prez. There is actually a war going on inside the US right now. A political war.
They hate him.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
It's really scary watching the goings-on in the USA right now.
I'm frightened for Obama.
Obama is safe. He is proving he is a good corporate water boy every day. He took care of the Military Industrial boys and made them happy with an ongoing war to spread democracy, including renewing Blackwater's contracts. Put on a good show by telling Israel to stop building settlements with a little nudge and a wink and they are full speed ahead with construction. He and Holder are protecting Bush and Cheney as much as possible. He continues to wiretap and perform renditions. Bail out Bankers on Wall St. with no new regulations to hamper their bloodsucking profits. Oh he is a fucking winner. A lot of you people on his post are delusional. You Betcha. There will be no public option face it. Obama is bought and paid for.
n/t
I walked away to look at Countdown and I realized I used the word site. No hard feelings. My bad!
Also some fat fingering going on. Think I better go for a Chelada!
Don't forget:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgrGyR6EYbY
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
It ranks right up there with the HP Sauce singing bovine:
http://www.brownsauce.org/2006/10/27/can-you-...
;)
yummmmm.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
Goes great on burger and fries.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2A6YPowfwk
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
You can say that again ;)
I think I did already.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
You know CalgaryLady. She's not like that. I think she was miffed at the comment because she didn't see what we did.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
What worries me is the idea that somehow the program will pay for itself.
Last time I heard that was when our country invaded Iraq.
And the idea that there is so much waste in the system (beyond what may be expected in any program), that weeding it out will pay for the program, sounds way too much like the insurance companies themselves justifying denying coverage to one of their own customers.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
To me tort reform is changing from raspberry filling to lemon.
But some people on this site prefer raspberries.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
robins enjoy them now!
pluck some of those and put them in yer pancakes. sprinkle them with a little cinnamon, then a little powdered sugar. Then load them up with real maple syrup. The trick is to throw in the berries after you pour the batter. Let it cook for a few seconds, then throw in the berries.
Then, after the right time, flip them. When you put them on the plate, add the rest. SUPER TASTY! you can use any berries. I like lolaberries .
mixem. supertasty! Don't forget the butter. Real butter.
Oh man, now I have the munchies.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
Looks like he didn't have his raspberries:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdWiTGalcCs
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
His opinion means nothing to people who have brains.
NOBODY 2012
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOKK8mAkiUI
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
ROVE LIED???? C'MON. REALLY? I'M SHOCKED, SHOCKED, I TELLS YA.
Surrender first. Is he delusional? Who is giving him advice. Give a shout out to the very WORMS in Congress who are doing everything they can to destroy a viable health care reform plan?
I used to vote for Nader. I'll be going back to third party for all future elections, because voting for Democrats is a waste. At least voting third party, my vote counts as much, but I also feel true to myself.
have health insurance reform, and look what great things we can look forward to.
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