John McCain can't even keep Arizona safe as travel guru Arthur Frommer blasts the gun-toting state
Maybe the gun-toting teabaggers excited Michael Steele and his fellow Republicans, but the travel wizard was not impressed and is canceling any future plans for going to McCain's home state.
He's not advocating a boycott of Arizona (yet) but he does say that he's "shocked beyond measure by reports that earlier this week, nearly a dozen persons, including one with an assault rifle strapped about his shoulders and others with pistols in their hands or holsters, were openly congregating outside a hall at which President Obama was speaking to the Veterans of Foreign Wars."
Who is Arthur Frommer?
Arthur Frommer (born 1929) is a travel writer, publisher and consumer advocate, and the founder of the Frommer's series of travel guides and Arthur Frommer's Budget Travel[1] magazine. He has published many books for budget-conscious travelers and has been one of America's foremost budget travel authorities since the 1950s. Frommer's seminal book, Europe on 5 Dollars a Day, changed the way Americans traveled, and foreshadowed such later budget-conscious guidebooks as Lonely Planet and Rick Steves
.
What he says carries a lot of weight, and you can bet Arizona officials are freaked out by his opinion on this matter.
I am not yet certain whether I would advocate a travel boycott by others of the state of Arizona; I want to learn more about Arizona's gun laws and how they compare with those of other states. But I am shocked beyond measure by reports that earlier this week, nearly a dozen persons, including one with an assault rifle strapped about his shoulders and others with pistols in their hands or holsters, were openly congregating outside a hall at which President Obama was speaking to the Veterans of Foreign Wars.
For myself, without yet suggesting that others follow me in an open boycott, I will not personally travel in a state where civilians carry loaded weapons onto the sidewalks and as a means of political protest. I not only believe such practices are a threat to the future of our democracy, but I am firmly convinced that they would also endanger my own personal safety there. And therefore I will cancel any plans to vacation or otherwise visit in Arizona until I learn more. And I will begin thinking about whether tourists should safeguard themselves by avoiding stays in Arizona.
According to the Phoenix, Arizona, police, if Ronald Reagan were delivering a political talk in Phoenix, Arizona, would they have felt it was proper for protesters with guns to mill about outside the hall from which he would leave?
I'd appreciate hearing your comments. The question is, should we all organize a travel boycott of Arizona until this tolerance of armed intimidation is ended, probably by an act of the Arizona legislature? People with guns, including assault rifles, do not need permits in Arizona, but can simply carry such weapons with them, openly and brazenly, when they gather to protest a speaker at a public event. The police also acknowledge that about a dozen people carrying guns, including one with an AR-15 assault rifle, milled about outside the event at which President Obama spoke.
Wow. Frommer is actually thinking of a full scale travel boycott of Arizona.
John McCain tries to act like the Czar of world security, but his home state is scaring the bejeezus out of people. He's an election loser, health-care-reform denier, but a favorite of the Sunday talk-show circuit.
You'd think a senator would at least speak up. But, being Republican, what he'll probably do is call Arthur Frommer a liberal or something.
Oh boy...
I think I just heard the bus' breaks squeaking as it pulled to a stop. The troll express will be here right on time.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
were a bit quick on the count, it took me almost a half hr. to find this. You might want to work on that premature thing. ;)
Although I don't consider myself a troll, I just like a good debate, and if you only listen to like minded folk you never learn anything.
... and you do just that, then you shouldn't be worried about the troll monicker.
*makes popcorn*
You like yours with butter?
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
what is in place to prevent the US from turning into a North American equivalent of Waziristan?
Divine Right of Kings (1600's); Divine Right of Corporations (2011)
..pronounce a word as tough to say as Warziristan.
Mickey: "It was an epiphany. Do you know what an epipany is?"
Keoni: "NOT NOW MICKEY!"
We've been headed that way for quite a while now. I fully expect this country to become a war zone within a decade.
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
Let me know when Blackwater (sorry, Xe) takes over the capital. I need to figure out the time frame for them to launch the Canadian Anschluss.
Oops. my tinfoil hat is showing...
Divine Right of Kings (1600's); Divine Right of Corporations (2011)
I have to travel to AZ in a couple weeks.
Since I'm flying in I can't take my weapons, but I will be sure to NOT spend any money while I'm there.....
all it takes is all of us
It is legal and pretty easy to do. Quick rundown on TSA regulations are that the firearms can't be loaded and must be in a locked case with only you having the key or combination for the lock. And you have to declare it on check in. Ammo has to be in a factory box or similar. But check with the airline your using, some of them have different requirements.
Thanx Timjoebillybob.....but in truth, the only weapons I have are a Louisville slugger and an antique Winchester .22 that I use to kill copperheads on the farm here (none this year so far!!).
I am WAY too much of a pacifist to walk the streets with a gun.....hmmm....maybe not so much a pacifist if I'm willing to attend the next "tea-baggers party" with my Louisville Slugger tho'!!
all it takes is all of us
I just try to point out misinformation when I can. And there are quite a few snakes in AZ both the non legged and the two legged kind. You might have more use for that .22 than you think.
...than to run around killing innocent animals in your spare time?
You sound like you belong in Arizona.
me or aarrgho? He's the one talking about killing innocent animals.
n/t
You've never actually encountered a rattlesnake, have you?
I LOVE reptiles. I think snakes are gorgeous, and have owned them. But if a poisonous snake appeared on my doorstep, you better believe I'd kill it. Just like black widow spiders, which are very beautiful and which I dispatch quickly with a word of apology. Lovely as they are, such creatures are extremely dangerous. You just don't fuck around with 'em.
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
You just don't fuck around with 'em.
...and they're not a problem.
And yes, I have encountered rattlesnakes, yet remarkably have yet to be bitten. Because I leave them the hell alone.
I have to disagree. They get really dumb in the summer, even back in Canada. I've actually had a couple of friends get bit (on the heavy hiking boot) by snakes they didn't see that were sunning themselves on stony paths. They can be real trouble at times. I doubt Excelsior goes out looking for them, but as a one-time country boy, I sure can understand him killing them if they get near the house.
For the record, I'm a big proponent of greater (as in incredibly strict) gun control, but also don't think there's anything wrong with responsible owners having guns.
The troll takes the bait.....
Tyler...we have a winner!
What a real troll is. Only a closed minded idiot would view tim's explanation of the law as a troll..
... indeed
LOL
Tyler, you're missing the boat here. He's right, Tim was only explaining the law.
Now, if somebody shows up to cast aspersions, call names, or get nasty, THAT is a troll.
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
But your little insult there? Makes YOU a troll.
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
Tickets already purchased for Phoenix and Tucson, a long planned trip. Maybe I can buy a gun when I get there?
your from, maybe or maybe not. Federal law allows for purchasing long guns, in neighboring states of your own. Other than that they must be shipped to a ffl dealer in your home state.
Or like I stated above you can take them with you in your luggage.
Americans have the best health care system in the world because the world only includes America.
McCain is too chicken shit to say anything especially since the NRA recently gave Palin their biggest award for encouraging people to collect guns. If he does say anything, he will whine, play the victim and somehow try to make it sound like it's out of his hands.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
I agree with Mr Frommer. I am not really too interested in travelling in a Country, let alone a state where people feel the need to carry a gun for their "personal protection". I feel alot safer at home in Canada or in other parts of the world.
Aren't there signs on your side of the US/Canadian Border that say: "ENTERING THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA - ENTER AT YOUR OWN RISK"
If not......shouldn't there be?
all it takes is all of us
But I live approximately 18 hrs from the border to the lower 48 states so I have no idea about signage at the border.
I feel much safer in countries that are actively attempting to ban knives/swords(UK) while crime stays rampant. Oh well at least they are making headway on "stab proof" knives..
THIS is trolling.
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
tool reference.
Jeez ;-)
wow, a travel blogger with bigger nads than a liberal political blog.
way to go!
Here in Fla. if someone sincerely feels they are about to be harmed by someone, they can just go ahead and shoot the person. Since that law went into effect it gives a whole new meaning to "looking friendly".
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
We tried to pass a law here in AZ that if you felt somebody looked at you funny, you could pull your gun and point it at them. Cuz... you know... that would help defuse the situation. Janet vetoed that one before she jetted off to Homeland Security. And this session, Gov Brewer approved a bill that allows people to carry concealed guns in bars as long as they promise they won't drink any alcohol.
Didn't tennessee recently pass that packin' in the bar law too? Same deal, you could pack heat but not slug down alcohol. Sort of a designated gunner I guess.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
although it wasn't for a designated gunner, it was to allow law abiding citizens to carry into places that serve alcohol, like most nice restaurants. And heck even not so nice ones like Applebees, Fridays, Dennys etc.
Well you know, you go out to a bar with a bunch of your buddies. First you decide who will be the designated driver and then who will be the designated heat packer. I guess the designated driver could fill both positions. Then if the guys get into a fight with a loud group, you could shoot the loud group and then drive your buddies home.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
if I take my family out to eat, or yes as a designated driver. But for how you described the situation I wouldn't shoot, its not legal. Now if someone attempted and armed robbery, or we got jumped by a larger group perhaps.
Oh and pulling a firearm can defuse a situation very well, a long while ago someone I know was walking her dog, a car drove by very slowly, then came back around and stopped three young guys jumped out of the car one with a bat, she drew her pistol and they fled. Sounds like defusing to me.
John Lott's study showed that brandishing a firearm stops a criminal attack 98% of the time without a shot being fired.
please
http://books.google.com/books?id=K6dIvTFsDMkC...
Page 3 in the preview, the entire study is not posted on line but I can post other links referencing it. Such as this one.
http://www.fff.org/freedom/fd0210e.asp
had showed up I have a feeling that the SS would have locked them up overnight at least. But somehow the SS seems to have lost their concern re: the safety of the president.
I am not traveling anywhere soon, but I will buy one of your books and when I have a friend or relative traveling, I'll get them one of your books to take with.
me-oww!
Somehow, I doubt it.
Remember the refusal of AZ to ratify MLK day?
This is a state where polygamists practice their sick obsession of marrying their baby cousins - while the law "doesn't see it."
Our state legislature is always looking for a way to make the Grand Canyon only 6,000 years old.
Our booger-eating Gomers will be pleased as all-get-out that some libbrull book takes issue about their GOD-given firearms.
The People of AZ actually voted in favor of the holiday...
Only when the last tree has died
and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught
will we realize we cannot eat money.
I think that the article stated "..AZ officials.."
in northern Arizona, you're mostly right, however, many towns live and die by their tourist business, which I would imagine has already been compromised by the economy. This may help snap the wranglers controlling the herds of low-brows to cease with this childish display. Also, wasn't Phoenix a big convention city in the winter?
Next thing you know there will be a law in Arizona where you have to have your birth certificate stapled to your shirt and have to wear your schlong out of your pants.
Why do you think I wear a kilt?
If you're a girl what happens. Do you have to rent a "schlong"?
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
You may have to prove you are a girl. Somehow. Maybe you could show them your "cuties." lol
They won't see my "cuties" until they pry my cold dead bra off of them.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
you're fairly safe.
Just don't leer at our goats.
If you're under fifteen, disguise yourself as a really ugly goat.
;)
Only when the last tree has died
and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught
will we realize we cannot eat money.
When I see one of these people in the crowds carrying a gun, it seems to me they are saying, I could shot someone if I wanted to. That is frightening.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
Well, that is absolutely what they are saying.
... I think they simply are saying "I have a ridiculously small penis. Nice to meet you"
..
Divine Right of Kings (1600's); Divine Right of Corporations (2011)
I see someone who is not afraid of exercising their rights, or someone that is capable of protecting themselves, or even someone who favors comfort. In the summer I open carry myself a good bit, its a lot easier and more comfortable.
who don't mind making others uncomfortable.
And yes, I have a gun, a rifle and a revolver.
They are tools. I used two of them for hunting and one for target or when walking waaay outback.
Didn't take me long to figure out that I didn't care for hunting; just like being outdoors.
The only time that I open carry is when I'm going to use them.
Open-carry in an urban area is boorish, selfish behavior.
"Look at me! I'm exercising my rights!"
If somebody likes their firearms THAT much - maybe they should get a room.
exercise your rights if you make others uncomfortable? Dang you better quit exercising your 1st amendment rights to free speech, it makes me uncomfortable. :) Not really but do you see my point? Or how about the 4th and 5th amendments, I know for a fact that it makes some people uncomfortable that a criminal can tell a LEO no they can't search their home, or that they can't be forced to testify against themselves, and lets not forget the freedom of religion part of the first, how many christians and others feel uncomfortable about muslims? And freedom of the press, hearing about all those bad people on the news makes people uncomfortable also.
all you want.
We can also exercise the right to point out how irresponsible and idiotic is to carry a fully loaded assault rifle to a peaceful townhall discussing HEALTH CARE REFORM.
Besides, unless you are being part of a well regulated militia, you are not really exercising any right... as much as you are simply trivializing the bill of rights, by parsing selectively, in order to make a cheap political point.
Yes you are entitled to your opinion of the people that carry.
As for being part of a well regulated militia, yes I am under federal law and the constitution of my state. The militia is organized into two separate parts the organized and the unorganized.
I assume you don't agree with the Heller decision.
"1. The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home.Pp. 2–53.
(a) The Amendment’s prefatory clause(A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State,) announces a purpose, but does not limit or expand the scope of the second part, the operative clause(the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed). The operative clause’s text and history demonstrate that it connotes an individual right to keep and bear arms. Pp. 2–22."
Can you explain the legal reasoning that you don't? Here is the link to the decision.
http://www.supremecourtus.gov/opinions/07pdf/...
Or how about this?
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed"
The other 2 places in the bill of rights, the 1st and 4th amendments that the phrase 'the right of the people' appear and in the 9th where they use similar wording all refer to individual rights. Not collective rights, or rights that can only be exercised by participation in a government entity.
The phrase 'the people' appear 3 other times in the Constitution, and may be considered to apply to the people as a collective, but those deal with powers not rights, and in all 6 other usages of 'the people' it refers to all people of the political community, not a subset of the people, ie in the case of the 2nd the militia.
Can you explain to me why the framers of the Constitution would of used that phrase to refer in that one specific instance to mean something other than what it means throughout the rest of the document? Rather then lets say the right of the militia to keep and bear arms?
Of those, nine die.
13,000 homicides by firearms in the year 2006.
But gun enthusiasts have legal arguments and the manufacturers laugh all the way to the bank.
Yeah, so let's all wear guns to town hall meetings:
We. Have. A. Right.
I'm just glad that I don't have to clean up after gun-toting assholes proving their rights anymore.
Except in the dreams.
What age for juvenile you are talking 18 and under? Or under 18?
For 2006
Ages 0-14 deaths by firearms; accidents 54, homicides 285 and suicide 62 Total number 401.
While innocents dying is terrible no matter what the cause, I'm guessing that except for firearm accidents, the total number of deaths from homicide and suicide would not change much.
Other than firearm 0-14; suicide 157 homicides 807
Kids used other methods than firearms to commit suicide by 3 to 1 ratio, I'm guessing that most of the ones that committed suicide with a gun would have used another method if a gun wasn't available. And same for the homicides.
And how many of the homicides were done by a lawful gun owner? I would bet very few.
Accidental drownings for age 0-14 outnumbered deaths by firearms by almost 2 to 1 And not trying to be snarky, but are you also against kids swimming? And taking baths? Or do recommend that parents keep and eye on their kids and teach them to be safe around water?
Do you mind if I ask where you got your numbers?
This is what I used but it doesn't break down the 15-17 age range it goes from 15-24.
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr57/nvsr...
will ever satisfy each other; in your world they were not actually kids or whatever.
Of course you are right. Nobody dies who isn't deserving of it.
There's always an excuse to carry leathal tools about!
Guns don't kill children ; people do. No children are ever killed unless they really deserve it!
So, carry your weapon about without giving it a second thought; whatever statistics that i come up with have questionable sources. You have the real sources - so you are right.
Everybody would be better off if we all carfried firearms.
The second amendment is safer than the first amendment; somebody could really hurt my feelings if they exercised their right to free speech.
At least you can finish them off when you have a gun.
I have seen the people dying by means of the guns your naive ass is defending.
I will never forget it. It will haunt me until the day that I die and it was no war zone; it was anytown USA.
Common sense makes no sense to your ilk.
I never said that nobody dies who doesn't deserve it, nor that no children are killed that don't deserve it. Or did you miss the part about innocents dying is terrible no matter what the cause. And I never said your stats were from a questionable source, I stated mine did not break down the 15-17/18 range. And trust me I have given carrying a firearm a 2nd, 3rd and a 23 thousandth thought, I think about it every time I carry it, because I do know what can happen.
As a former paramedic/trauma nurse? I think you stated, I'm sure you've seen people die from other things as well, such as being beaten with a bat or stabbed during a mugging. Why is it more tragic when they die from a gun rather than another violent death?
And for common sense, I think its common sense that law abiding citizens should be armed, so that its the mugger/rapist etc that is lying there rather than themselves. But I'm sure that makes no sense to your ilk.
But you did have one thing right, guns don't kill children people do, and they do so with bats, drowning, shaking them, and yes guns. No matter how they do it doesn't matter. Its still a tragedy.
Mick if you care to continue this discussion, I will gladly do so in the open thread, per the mods wishes.
Mods sorry about the additional off topic post, but I felt I had to respond to this one.
You are moved to show your weapon.
In reaction I am moved to avoid you, even though I own firearms.
In my career as a firefighter/paramedic and critical care nurse, I have seen the ultimate product of readily available firearms.
I've seen brains scattered over the walls and lopsided heads that remind me of pumpkins. I have watched people die and had that weird sensation when life leaves and the body looks somehow smaller.
So, I would consider you rude, boorish and naive and so avoid you like the plague.
And you (as a member of a well-regulated militia no doubt) would think that "I wanna take away your guns" and avoid me.
We agree on that likely.
My right to privacy, a speedy trial, counsel, all the other stuff in the constitution don't travel at supersonic speeds, either.
Your 'argument' is stupid and specious. No points for you
me-oww!
My exercising my First Amendment rights won't kill you. Your exercising your Second Amendment rights could kill me or others.
I can't see why this is so difficult for people like you to comprehend. Civilized people do NOT bring guns to a political rally. And those, who do belong in jail.
My 2nd amendment rights won't harm you, unless you are attempting to hurt my family or myself. Or acting in a way that would make me believe that you have the intent, opportunity, and means to do so. Waving a knife at me and saying your going to kill me from 100ft away nope, doing the same at 20ft good chance.
Tim:
You do not bring a gun to a political rally to protect yourself or your family from bad guys. You bring a gun to intimidate your opponents, which, of course, shows how weak your ideas are. This has nothing to do with the bad guys, who must appear frequently in your fantasies. It has everything to do with the lunatic fringe and their radical right enablers weakening our democratic process. Those who openly display guns at political rallies belong in jail. End of story.
you intimidated by a couple of pounds of steel? Yes it can be used to kill, but so can knifes, cars, clubs, and even hands and feet. Are you intimidated by a person driving to the rally, or of someone with a club(some of those signs I've seen would make effective blunt instruments) or if you see a pocket knife? Or even people not having their hands bound behind their back and hobbled.
I could see being intimidated if the person had it in their hand and was waving it around, or saying threatening things, but they weren't they were standing their peacefully protesting. And how do you know they weren't carrying to protect themselves? The one guy Kostric? stated that he carries frequently for protection. How long ago was that guy was beaten up by 4 people at a rally and had to go to the hospital?
And from the pictures and videos that I have seen, it didn't look like anyone was intimidated.
Yeah, Tim, if I am in the midst of debating/arguing with someone at a political rally, and I see that he/she is openly packing heat, I am going to feel much less comfortable. And despite your many attempts to distort reality here, we both know why that person is openly displaying a weapon at a political rally. He/she is trying to intimidate the opposition. You know it, I know it, and anyone possessing an ounce of sanity knows it. Those, who have openly displayed guns at these political rallies have crossed the line. It's outrageous and they belong in jail. End of story.
why are you intimidated by a small inanimate object, no matter where it is? Would you feel more comfortable debating/arguing with someone in a coffee shop while they were 'packing heat' compared to a political rally?
You say that those that have open carried at these events have crossed the line and belong in jail, does the same go for those that concealed them? If not, why?
...I wouldn't debate anyone, who is openly displaying a firearm. And I also see no point in debating someone unable stick to the topic and comprehend why people openly display guns at a political rally. So go ahead and try to steer this exchange in any direction you want. I will view you the way Barney Frank viewed that lunatic, who compared Obama to Hitler. You deserve the same lack of respect.
I truly hope there is a boycott of Arizona. If you people continue to feel that this behavior is acceptable, then you deserve to lose loads and loads of tourist money.
I'm not a resident of AZ.
why people open carry at a political rally, it could be several reasons, they don't have a license to conceal, they are protesting the administrations stance on firearms, that is how they usually/always carry, and yes they can try to use them to intimidate. But they can use other things to try to intimidate also, their size or their numbers for instance. Should rallies be split 50/50 on both sides so people won't have to feel intimidated? If one side is larger should they go to jail?
But back to the guns, does it intimidate you to know that there is a very good chance that some of the protesters are carrying concealed? Why not if it doesn't?
Out of sight out of mind?
If you're a responsible gun owner, then may I suggest that you stop supporting the people who think frightening their fellow citizens is acceptable public discourse? These people are not doing your right to have a firearm any favors at all. In fact, they are turning a lot of people who never thought about it AGAINST the Second Amendment. If you really value the rights that amendment gives you, you should be decrying their behavior.
Carrying a loaded gun to a public event is in no way a responsible act. Sure, they're "exercising their right", but that means next to nothing when exercising that right could put lives in danger. Yelling "fire" in a crowded theater, and all that.
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
You don't bring a gun to a political rally to "exercise your rights" are "favor comfort." You bring a gun to a political rally to intimidate your opponents, especially since you must feel that your ideas are too weak to express and defend verbally. And anyone, who brings a gun to a political rally belongs in jail.
and mask. I may start wearing chain mail and starting carrying a fucking broadsword, just to 'get with' this modern day weapon packing shit. I mean, I thought
assholescowboys quit openly packing in the early 1900s.That was around the time great grandma Sarah Austin shot up her own saloon in Carter, WY, because great grandpa was gambling away the family fortune. Quickest way to break up the game.
me-oww!
a pic of you in said chain mail? Please? Pretty please?
I have nothing against guns - it's the people I fear - and that's because the type of people who fall into the category of those who want to carry loaded guns for one reason or another usually appear to also belong to the type of people with a tendency to display their anger by shouting. When interviewed, they often feel in danger of something - loss of freedom, loss of rights, etc., etc... and I respect their feelings, whether justified or not - but what I don't appreciate is the angry way that they exhibit those feelings.
This type of personality can lead to a fit of rage - and that's where the trouble starts. It's bad enough for drivers to have a fit or 'road rage' and cause accidents: it's another completely different thing for someone with a loaded semi-automatic weapon to have a fit of 'gun rage' around a group of protesters opposing the gun-toter's views.
Prediction: one of these days, at a heated Arizona political protest, there will be a re-enactment of the OK Corral.
Gene Grossman - www.LegalMystery.com
and perhaps, unbelievably -
every antiwar/antiMcSame?anti VylKyl rally that I've been to has had a very visible police presence.
They have been very friendly and we've come to know a number of them on a first-name basis.
When troublemakers confront us, the police are right there and step in between factions.
I really can't say enough positive things about these cops.
Weird, huh?
I still say what these Right Wing-Nut Terrorists and their whacko gun threats WILL BACKFIRE.
but it's a dry heat!
Bading, bang, boom...
I like to say that Arizona's state legislature gives me the heaves. But they're the dry heaves...
It's not so much the heat, it's the stupidity.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
...gotta remember that one....funnystuff!
all it takes is all of us
unemployment (possibly to increase up to 11% soon)... this is not good news for my tourism dependent state. To have an icon like Frommer to suggest that people are not safe in Arizona.
But I am sure that you realize that we all have our nutcases --- like the men with the small male units who had to carry a gun to increase their manliness trying to make a point.
Unfortunately, our Governor recently signed into law a bill that allows people to carry guns into bars... in July 14th I believe...of course they can't drink while they are in the bars, but hey...
Shoot even in the old west, men had to check their weapons at the door.
Only when the last tree has died
and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught
will we realize we cannot eat money.
I don't see much wrong with guns (I know, I know), it's the insecure, crazy, small minded, little dicked, absolute nuts who feel they have to show everybody that they are insecure, crazy, small minded, little dicked nuts that should be outlawed. Why does somebody think it is a good thing to carry their
dickgun on their leg or across their back when they go buy some socks or burgers?..if Frommmer gets a "visit" from a "Fox News" crew courtesy of the "Big Giant Ego".
whose freedom of speech upsets Mr. Fuck-it-we'll-do-it-live! He and his producers are dorks, the definition I remember hearing as a kid, but can't find on the 'Nets...limp dicks trying to commit rape.
me-oww!
If Frommer (age 80) shot one of them in the leg.
It's not supposed to be funny if someone got shot, but the irony makes me giggle.
Does that make me a bad person? I should feel bad, but I don't, so I feel bad about not feeling bad.
"When are we going to stop trying to tell elected officials what to do. Our job is to spend the taxpayers' money the best way we can." -- Tommy Watkins, Justice of the Peace, Crawford County, Arkansas
Nothing about guns and all that, but the police state otherwise is quite intrusive. Photo radar is everywhere, and the flash as it takes your picture if you're marginally speeding can blind you. That's way more dangerous than going 64 in a 55. All for a revenue generator that doesn't actually put points on your license.
was mandated by the fed; failure to comply would have resulted in a loss of highway funds.
Besides, you'd have to be blind not to notice the signs...
"Photo Radar - 300 Feet" "Photo Radar - Ahead"
etc
As a resident of Tempe AZ. I can tell you photo radar is controlled by the municipalities. The signs for the fixed (non mobile) radar are inobtrusive and usually say only "photo enforcement zone ahead".
I have never heard of photo radar being federally mandated.
Here's a source for some verification: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photo_radar#Poli... see paragraph 3
I guess I'll have to drive the speed limit - a mere 65mph!
And I suppose that I'll have to wear sunglasses so the photo-flash won't blind me here under the hot, bright Arizona sun.
Life sooo sucks...
You like not being able to see when you drive. You enjoy that retinal imprint that stays with you.
Me, I find it counterproductive. Especially when it gets dark outside and I really need those eyes to avoid nutjobs like ... you.
If you don't drive over the speed limit,
you don't trip the camera!
(ever wonder what those insulated wires were doing there on the road?)
But it would be a shame to force master debaters such as yourself -
to follow rules meant for the rest of us mortals.
;)
A fucting idiot. A shitstain on the fabric of society. Someone who needs his drool cup paid for by the rest of us.
If you can't see because you're blinded by a flash, you certainly can't see wires in the road, which I might be able to see if it weren't for reckless spoogebags like yourself taking up the road.
Stay off the road if you like being blind.
Holder to Appoint Prosecutor to Investigate CIA Terror Interrogations
The internet is full of bogus 'American patriots', posting from places like Latvia, Qatar, and Nigeria.
Arizona is not the only state that allows open carry and certainly not the only one that allows concealed carry.
This would not have been allowed for Bush. No way, no how and the gun fetishist punks know this. They also know the Phoenix police left them alone because they didn't want to give them what they wanted which is even more attention. You would not normally be allowed to walk around Phoenix with a loaded AR without someone stopping you. Also concealed carry law says that if someone is disturbed or feels threatened by your open carry you can complain to police and they will likley tell you to stop.
BTW I live in Phoenix btw and have a concealed carry license and am a Marine Coprs combat disabled vet.
If Frommer is so concerned about travel to states that people carry in, he's pretty dang restricted to where he can go. All 50 states allow some form of carry.
And as a means of protest, I guess he'll have to stay out of CA, WI, Ohio, Indiana, NH, Virginia.... heck now that I think of it most states.
If he's just concerned about open carry, he does have a few more options though, there are 7 states and DC that do not allow open carry at all.
par for the course. Here's a refresher:
me-oww!
In part:
"For myself, without yet suggesting that others follow me in an open boycott, I will not personally travel in a state where civilians carry loaded weapons onto the sidewalks and as a means of political protest."
bullshit at the presidents do.
You know AZ, if you want to have tourists, you shouldn't act like gun toting a holes. And when you do, take responsibility for your actions, and know that there are consequences for those actions. Don't blame Frommer for being alarmed. You may not realise this, but your behaviour is alarming. You should travel more AZ, then you'd get it. Maybe.
Feel free to pack heat openly, just because you can. When you morons leave the old timey wild west crap behind, maybe you'll see an uptick in visitors. We are exercising our right to disassociate ourselves from your -- erm -- company.
me-oww!
but with idiots carrying loaded weapons to a peaceful town hall on HEALTH CARE REFORM.
But why let facts get in the way of a good red herring.
"For myself, without yet suggesting that others follow me in an open boycott, I will not personally travel in a state where civilians carry loaded weapons onto the sidewalks and as a means of political protest.' You can find instances of open carry as a form of political protest in most states, although in CA you are not legally allowed to carry a loaded one without a license, they are allowed to carry an unloaded one with a loaded magazine right next to it.
All but 7 states and DC allow open carry in some manner. And all fifty states allow some form of carry. 12 states have open carry with no license, 13 including CA with the restriction I mentioned above(and probably a few more), 2 of those allow for concealed carry as well with no permit.
die from gunshot wounds.
Enjoy your "right."
terrible how many of those deaths were caused by law abiding citizens carrying?
You don't have to be a gun nut to find Frommer's comments incredibly naive- especially for someone so well-traveled.
It's unfortunate that he has a fundamental lack of understanding of AZ law. It's also unfortunate that he feels compelled to restrict liberties on individuals in a state in which he does not even reside.
"And I will begin thinking about whether tourists should safeguard themselves by avoiding stays in Arizona."
Has there been a recent rash of tourist shooting in AZ? Did any of these protesters fire their weapons? Nope.
Sounds like the world is getting a little too fast for Frommer.
it's moving too fast for AZ.
me-oww!
I guess that when one of the intelligentsia decides to carry an assault rifle into a school program at one of the grade schools that will be o.k.? This wasn't about liberty and just because no one fired their weapon it wasn't a raving success. Unfortunately, and I was raised in Arizona and graduated from ASU, it just makes the state and its citizens look like a bunch of rubes and the display was childish and pathetic.
Oh, you kill me. (Pun not intended).
Even Frommer admits that he's unfamiliar with Arizona law and wants to look into it more. However, he's concerned with his own safety and just expressed his opinion about being concerned. Frommer never said, "Don't go to Arizona" but rather that he would cancel his plans to go there and suggest that others simply look into it as well.
Does there have to be a "recent rash of tourist shooting(s)" in order for one to be concerned? At what point do you Mr. Oswald decide that, "Hey, maybe we ought to take another look at this."? 2 dead? Five dead? Ten dead? 20 dead?
"When are we going to stop trying to tell elected officials what to do. Our job is to spend the taxpayers' money the best way we can." -- Tommy Watkins, Justice of the Peace, Crawford County, Arkansas
No. There's always the first.
me-oww!
One can hardly blame Frommer for not wanting to be the first, after all. That's a trail nobody would want to blaze, thanks.
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
Let's say someone opens fire in a town hall meeting, does the news report say, A gun man opened fire today at a town hall meeting killing only one person. Or do they say, A gun man opened fire today in a town hall meeting and killing one person.
It's not when it happens or how many are injured, it's that the real possibility of it happening is made greater by the loaded guns being there.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
There's a real possibility everywhere and to pretend that open carry people are the problem is to be naive.
that Somalia is a great vacation spot for the
open-carry, Libertarian hipster of today.
EVERYBODY who is anybody open-carries and there aint no damn-pesky government to tell you otherwise.
there, which makes it a doubleplusgood place to visit.
"Somalia, Libertarian paradise, I came for the minimal government... and I stayed for the lack of taxes"
Dale Hausner was just sentenced to life in prison on six counts of murder.
Hausner carried their weapons in their vehicle and murdered at least six random strangers.
Citizens were warned to stay indoors in certain areas after dark.
But at least they had the right to open-carry in Phoenix AZ!
Mr. Frommer is taking his responsibility as a travel writer seriously. Apparently many people read his books looking for advice & guidance for their travels.
Seemed pretty clear to me that he stated he was going to educate himself more on Arizona's gun laws & investigate further...before deciding on how to advise his readers.
Rational, intelligent, open-minded & willing to learn...sounds like a pretty reasonable guy.
He is also very entitled to his own opinion...just like everyone in the U.S. is.
So...it's naive to be concerned for one's personal safety, even one's life? That's news to me.
What is naive about deciding you don't want to be around people who carry loaded firearms? I wouldn't want to be within a mile of those people either.
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
It's not naive to be concerned for one's personal safety or even life. What's naive is avoiding the situation. You're supposed to be armed aswell. Now that's well informed protection I tell ya!
/snark
I personally don't understand carrying for defense. It's not likely you'll ever get to return fire in a gunfight (outside of the movies), so only reason to carry is to shoot first! Remember folks, you'll never hear the bullet that kills ya...it's ahead of it's own sound wave. Armor/Kevlar is defense, guns/bullets are offense.
away in the brainroom.
That's the truth, thanks.
...if YOU were "well-traveled," you would realize just how childish and moronic your post is. Be careful, gun nut, one of these days a real man or woman will take your gun away and stick it up your...
Do yourself a favor and LEARN something about the world before you're run over by its speed.
Maybe Mc Cain and his gun loving nuts will take notice that they have actually empowered radical and dangerous fringe elements and take the conversation down a notch.
But I doubt it. Why would this senile geezer or the GOP do what was right?
"We will find fulfillment not in the goods that we have, but in the good we can do for each other."
Robert F. Kennedy
I don't see how the righties can be upset about this. It's the free market in action. Just like Mr. Frommer, I've got tourist dollars to spend, and I refuse to give them to a state that places the desires of extremist gun nuts over the safety of the general population. If Arizona wants to coddle the crazies, it can also suffer the consequences.
This fits in perfectly with their insistence that the market should speak for itself. Someone with money to spend decides not to spend it in a certain place. And then he tells other people about his decision, so they can think about whether THEY want to spend their money there. What exactly is the problem with that?
Nothing. It's just that the right-wing "free market" hymnal is really all about getting everything they want, and not about real freedom at all. Like the whole "give them democracy" thing - fine as long as they vote for the guy the right-wingers like. Let 'em vote for someone else, and then it's suddenly REALLY AWFUL. Just plain "gimme" selfishness, that's all.
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
As a frightened Arizona resident who has been stuck in this state for the last 15 years, I wouldn't recommend that anyone visit.
Please keep in mind that Arizona is essentially territory established by real estate hucksters for the benefit of real estate hucksters. Anything that makes Arizona look bad to prospective real estate investors is censored from the local media and generally kept from the national media as well.
Although California freeways are known for gun violence, Arizona freeways (of which there are far fewer) have an even higher level of gun violence. And your probability of being shot at on a rural road is incredibly high.
My suburban neighborhood in north Phoenix looks like a demilitarized zone. My neighbors fire off their guns on holidays, during ballgames, and sometimes just for the fun of it in the middle of the night. A .22 slug came through my front window not long after I moved into my current house 12 years ago (around the time my welcoming neighbors bashed in my mailbox with a baseball bat).
When I first got here, I was amazed to see plaques on the front of many stores and government buildings reading "No firearms allowed inside." I wish I'd taken the hint and gotten out of this Republican hellhole right away.
It is time for all of us to express our outrage at what happened in Arizona (and New Hampshire). Any state that allows its lunatic fringe to openly carry guns at a political rally is one not deserving of our tourist and/or consumer dollars. So let's boycott Arizona and New Hampshire until the idiots who govern these states finally realize that such behavior should land someone in jail.
That would make them sit up and take notice. Tourism dollars are nothing to sneeze at. Perhaps this kind of thing will penetrate the thick heads in government down there. Money talks, after all.
I would join the boycott, but I've never had the slightest interest in going there, so my participation wouldn't mean much. ;)
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
Wow, boycott arizona?So now what, boycott other states for things we don't agree with?Last time I checked,Arizona is a state in these UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.I am more interested in the gun toting persons reasoning for taking those guns to those places. I wonder do they carry them everywhere? I'm all for what's legal,but what was their motivation?Someone hoping to get a crack shot at PRESIDENT of the UNITED STATES,like Oswald?Maybe take a shot at someone in the crowd during a heated debate?I'll bet there was someone with the capacity to snatch one of those guns away from the carrier and start shooting away..Lets not debate their right to carry those weapons, lets question their motives,and keep a very sharp eye on them.
Boycotting buses won blacks civil rights.
I buy vermont maple syrup because of the states kind stance towards gays. Dollars are the most real thing we have.
That's what boycotts are about. I won't buy your (grapes, toys, vacations) because I don't like your (worker practices, lead content, crazy gun laws). You may not agree, but boycotts are a time-honored traditional way to influence power. Are you suggesting that people should not use it?
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
do you go to a movie when you hate every actor in it, or it's not your genre? By your logic, you should not decide you aren't attending a movie because it's a romance, and you hate romances. You should still go, because someone as smart as you says so.
BTW some assholes (no doubt the same ones who to try to shame progressives out of boycotts) are calling for a boycott of the UK because they let a guy who'd been framed for the Lockerbie bombing go because he's dying of prostate cancer?
I personally do not give a shit where AZ is. They have their own chamber of commerce, and if they don't wish to accommodate civilised people, it is within their choice arena to opt out of a trip to AZ.
PS. Spacing after punctuation is your friend. this,is much more,how do you say?difficult.Difficult to read.without,spacing. Try it. Much easier to read.
me-oww!
The assault rifle was a media stunt pulled by a local radio station. If you look at the video of the guy, he's talking with a radio station. If you find the station you'll find the origin of the idea to bring an assault rifle.
Frommer say what you want about Arizona, him with the gun, you with the pen. History often demonstrates who will win this conflict.
I've recently been to Arizonistan and about the only game to hunt are rabbits and lizards.
So what's up with the AK47?
He was told me that guns are for cowards, and he was a serious fighter.
Arizona is a hideous, backward, right-wing state that has always been populated by sick wannabeaman gun nuts who drive huge 4WD trucks and have microscopic penises. I lived in Scottsdale for 4 years and found the state, its stupid people and primitive culture to be unbearable. I think the sun dries out the brains of people in Arizona.
When JFK was assassinated, children cheered in Arizona's elementary and public high schools, reflecting the UN-American attitudes of their fascist parents. They cheered again when MLK and RFK were murdered. The John Birch Society and Robert DePugh's neo-Nazi "Minutemen" (not the same as today's lunatic "Minutemen" who play at policing the U.S.-Mexican border), thrived in Arizona in the 60's. How many armed and dangerous self-appointed "militias" run amock in Arizona today?
The combination of ignorance, hate and racism that dominated the state in the 60's continues to this day. Mixed with fascist control by the state's major industrial powers, the thriving Mafia (in Arizona, it is difficult to tell where legitimate and Mafia (La Cosa Nostra) businesses begin and end as the late investigative reporter Don Bolles found out when he was murdered in Phoenix with a Mafia car bomb), the cowardly and mentally dim right-wing populace is manipulated by the fascists and armed by the UN-American NRA.
People in barbaric states such as Arizona, Texas and Colorado where gun control laws are virtually non-existent are TWO TO FOUR TIMES AS LIKELY TO BE SHOT than are their counterparts in New York City, Chicago, Los Angeles or San Francisco. Rates of physical assault and battery, including rape are also disproportionately high. These states are hellholes.
Travel to these fascist states--if you dare. I, for one, will never visit these terrible places not only out of fear of their insane armed citizens, but also because there really is nothing in any of those states worth the time, trouble and expense to travel there. Nothing to see, no culture, crappy food, stupid people, huge chance of being murdered. There are so many truly beautiful places in the world populated by interesting, peaceful and rational people. There is no reason to choose a hideous and dangerous place such as Arizona over any of them.
and I wouldn't say that the food is crappy...
And a lot of people are moving in from CA and urban areas of the North and Northeast. Enough to turn the state slightly blue in the last election.
Problem is that urban areas are gerrymandered into huge swaths of the rural areas to favor the Confederate party.
I gotta say though...if it weren't for the fact that the climate makes the pain of my injuries diminish - I wouldn't stay here.
to the cheering grade school kids. I was raised in Arizona in a small town and was in grade school during MLK and RFK and I call total bullshit on the cheering kids. If any hick-ass town would have had cheering kids it would have been mine, but NOTHING like that ever happened.
that spit on returning soldiers from Vietnam.
They really get around ya know....
I was an adult in Arizona at the time and personally witnessed it as did dozens of public school teachers.
pictures, sound bites, anything?????
Repubs are giving us death squads, just cuz you say it happened don't make it so. Statements from public school teachers? Was there a rally of embittered little school kids calling for RFK and MLK's heads? You can find assholes anywhere....got some proof beside your word?
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