Obama hearts Rick Warren
By John Amato Wednesday Dec 17, 2008 2:00pmPresident-elect Barack Obama's swearing-in ceremony will feature big names like minister Rick Warren and legendary singer Aretha Franklin, the Congressional Committee on Inaugural Ceremonies announced Wednesday. Warren, the prominent evangelical and founder of the Saddleback Church in Lake Forest, California, will deliver the ceremony's invocation.
Right Wing Watch outlines many of the reasons why he should not have been asked to perform this function. I guess Obama doesn't mind that Warren sandbagged him at the Saddleback Forum, (cone of silence) and Warren still gets the nod. PFAW have issued a statement.
'Profoundly Disappointed' that Rick Warren Will Give Invocation.
Duncan: Aside from the bigot part, Rick Warren is, you know, a liar.
We've covered many of Warren's sins (Rick Warren is the new Jerry Falwell: 'The Bible says that God puts government on earth to punish evildoers.') so why did Obama bring him on for this?
I've been very supportive of Obama so far, but I have to say that Obama's decision on this one is highly insulting.
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Rick Warren is the new Jerry Falwell.
Therein lies the problem.
The true nature of the problem is that Obama is a christian.
Already, you are fucking nuts if you believe any of that stuff, and Obama has shown that he lets his christian belief system, alter his view. Take gay marriage, marijuana decriminalization, and abortion for examples.
Folks stop blaming Obama for Rick Warren. Know your history.
Please. Rick Warren giving the invocation at the inaguration is more proof that Barack Obama is a fraud. I am so tired of this Obama cult movement and that he is somehow immune from criticism. Obama is just another slimy politico, folks and the sooner you all realize this fact, the more you will be able to absorb the lies yet to come your way. Obama is a master at deception and for this, he has been elected the president of the USA. Obama has mastered the art of con jobster, and so well, that the liberal/progressives of the Internet have never grasped. Only true leftists knew what an abject liar Obama was all the way through the election cycle. Just because McCain-Palin were more repulsive than Obama, does not make the man with many "changes" a true liberal or progressive. Read the writing found on www.counterpunch.org or www.blackagendareport.com if you want a real critique of the fraud known as Obama from Chicago. Wake up already folks. Rick Warren. Doug Kmiec. Donnie McClerkin. All these folks are anti-gay and anti-women and firm now in the Obama camp. Obama is a gay hater and he like Rick Warren is opposed to gay marriage!!!
I wish people who consider themselves to be either "liberals or progressives" stop acting like Barack Obama is actually a liberal or progressive when he is not. Obama lied in masterful rhetorical form to the gullible liberals and naive progressives who actually still think that he is some kind of "peace-loving" or "justice-seeking" man.
All the concessions and moves that Obama has made thus far to bring about change is to move to both the center and the right. Bob Gates! Please. Remember Iran-Contra folks. Get a grip. Biden and Hillary Clinton are both war hawks and both avowed orientalists. As Glen Ford at www.blackagendareport.com put it, in his article titled, "Obama's ‘Center-Right' Presidency: The Die is Cast,":
Paul Street, agreed with Glen Ford as well. Street's latest article, at www.blackagendareport.com, titled, >"The “Wait ‘Til He Gets In” Delusion: The President Elect is Not a Latent Lefty," also dismissed any notion of Obama being anything but a center-right politico, saying that:
Stop acting like Obama is a true "liberal or progressive" when he is not. Obama's picks have not shown any signs that he will govern to the left whatsoever. It appears that Obama is out to prove that Democrats can be good rightwing Republicans too and that Democrats also can embrace the same right-wing Evangelical Christianity that Rick Warren and James Dobson represent. Yes, Obama has brought about "change," alright. In fact, the change that Obama has delivered was to bring the Democratic Party into the same religious fold as the corporate neoliberals who helped ruin the world economy and by extension, the U.S. economy.
If you are shocked at Obama's choosing Rick Warren, don't be. Those bones that you all think Obama is just stalling to throw to the real liberals and progressives will not be coming anytime soon. Obama is a skilled establishmentarian, who used elite rhetoric on a very gullible and naive progressive movement found on the Internet and elsewhere. Contrary to Barack "Fraud" Obama, his campaign only received 25% of its funds from those "small donors" given through the Internet rather than the 90% lie put out by his lying campaign staff led by Mr. David Axelrod and Rahm Emanuel. Perhaps, Patrick Fitzgerald can help save liberals/progressives from themselves.
By the way, I am a radical leftist and not a liberal or progressives. Too many liberals/progressives are dumb enough to believe the rhetoric from the likes of Barack Obama yet, never really comprehend the actual content or words he speaks of.
Obama campaigned on a promise of inclusiveness. Now he's showing what he meant.... you go to the guy you disagree with most and set a place at the table for him. I think we all need to get a little bigger about this. Either that or stop bitching next time you want to complain about a conservative group not being inclusive.
You can stop sucking up to wingnut xtians like Warren and his ilk. These are the people who should be kicked out of Washington, not invited to your damn inauguration. Unreal.
Preach it brother...Hallelujah!
The interesting part is that the BBC broke down the votes and it seemed Obama didn't really make a dent in the white fantasy nutcase voter.
...still won the election.
He doesn't need the 99.7% white fundie nut vote IMHO, they use God as an excuse to be bigots.
Maybe to score some points with the fundies?
The only 2 ways for a politician to score points with the fundies is to either give them power and money or to become one of them. Short of providing one or both of these things, one remains the enemy.
Increasingly, I wonder just who is President-elect Barack Obama?
Of all the people he could have asked, he selected Rick Warren?
Shame. On. You. Obama.
crawcth don't ya?
every day my "hope" for "change" sinks lower.
Yesterday he also picked Ken Salazar sect'y of the Interior..dem who has kept exclusive company with thugs from the second he won his senate seat in CO. Expect damage. Think Lieberman.
Now this pisses me off. I know in my heart of hearts that Obama is way to smart to be a Theist. Way to fucking smart to buy into that bronze age middle eastern mythology. Having that snake oils salesman up there preaching to us is fucking bullshit.
If you like the Bible you MUST be a fan of genocide, aggressive war, slavery, incest, torture and just plain fucking with people (see Abraham bullied by God to kill his son, and the whole Job episode.)
This is a swearing in ceremony for a secular job...an invocation is part of the ceremony because...???
An invocation is basically a pleading with a deity for some benefit...it's an insult to every rational person in attendance or watching the broadcast.
It's utterly offensive to me that a representative of one specific religion is employed to solemnize the swearing-in of a SECULAR government position.
What a disappointment. I don't understand why any religion has to be brought into the inauguration.
I feel like he's just trying to prove to the right-wing crazies that he's "religious" too, and they have "common ground" to stand on. Obama, you are really pushing my buttons!
Hey don't forget this asshole, Warren, helped pass a referendum to keep my sister (and millions of others) from marrying the one she loves in California. Thanks BO, Change We Can Believe In!
that makes me wonder why Obama was seen as so much better than Kucinich. We are seeing that while he is a Dem, he certainly is not a progressive...
I don't know why you thought he was a "progressive". Just because you're not batshit insane, hungry for war, and ready to throw social security to the wolves, doesn't mean you are progressive. It just means you're not Bush.
Huh??
is O appeasing this 25% extreme faction that has held this country hostage for the last 9 years? (on whose path BClinton strew rose petals?). It can only mean 3 things: He's naive`, has a hostage mentality, is a fraud.
Look, Obama is a Christian. He's given speeches telling us that he doesn't support gay marriage because of his religious beliefs, his god tells him abortion is wrong, and he was going to a pretty freaky church for a long time.
Obama is a christian. Not as hardcore fundie as Bush lied about being, but Obama basically believes in Jesus, walking on water, and a big guy in the sky watching over us.
I wouldn't be surprised if Obama thinks evolution is all part of god's plan.
...everyone still has a right to complain about it. I had major reservations about BO, but at his worst, he'll still be better than what we've had for the last eight years or any Republican, period!
I never expected Obama to swing the bat for the gay community where gay marriage in California was concerned. but this constant pandering to the evangelical fringe is so maddening.
Obama doesent need to thank me for encouraging my family to vote for him even though the large bulk of my family was (and are) diehard Hillary supporters.
there are enlightened christians....people like Cornell West...and even Jimmy Carter.. but Rick "i have 2 gay friends" Warren is no enlightened christian.
this ecumenical idealism will end badly.....
Daily. Every Day. Every choice he is making to surround himself with these heartbreaking dull knives that are so dangerous. One after another. Not one DECENT ordinary sane person has been placed in any meaningful position of power.
We've been had.
and let's not forget how Blackwater will continue to thrive and run rogue under our flag abroad and DOMESTICALLY. No chink in Eric Prince's bank account.
Yeah and choosing someone working with Chicago schools to head our education department is laughable.
Is Chicago really doing so great in the education department because I have heard otherwise.
I'm way disappointed. I really wanted to believe in him. Now between all this and his choosing Clinton as secretary of state I'm feeling pretty hopeless.
"...Is Chicago really doing so great in the education department because I have heard otherwise..."
If you look at it from a perspective of IMPROVEMENT then yes.
the reich wing is loving his selections. This bothers me..
that Obama is just throwing a bone to the Reich-wingers.
That said, I really wish there was a true separation of church & state. Any time an invocation is said at an event, I'll stand by quietly but I am not very happy.
But he didn't need to; see above comments about just how little of a dent he made into the white, xian, conservative demographic. As was stated before, Kerry did much better. The Big O cleaned McCains clock without the help of the hardcore fundies and evangelicals. The throwing a bone argument carries no weight.
is he going to throw to them? They already have a good-sized pile that he's thrown them.
I'm starting to feel serious buyer's remorse.
You are sounding as crazy as the Bush supporters. Just on the opposite end of the spectrum.
and is not permitted to doubt. Not "allowed" (according to you) to hand over his comprehending mind and just "trust" based on no evidence, unearned (adults earn trust). So he's crazy and extreme as bush supporters for that? How the fuck old are you? 16?
I really don't care. That's not the part of the ceremony that I pay attention to, no matter who it is. I'm much more concerned about that day coming off safe and sane due to the giant crowd that will be there.
...bigger issue along with Obama's safety...
yeah, I'm much more worried about Iraq and the economy. But I'm thinking that he could have had Reverend Wright do this instead of Falwell Jr.
I pay attention to that part of the ceremony because it specifically disenfranchises me. Personally.
Bush was proclaimed president eight years ago by a minister who solemnized the deal with, "In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ." Guess what: Jesus Christ is not everybody's Lord. Way to alienate every religious minority in this country, folks, including rational, disgusted atheists.
Enough of religion as a ceremonial part of politics. Didn't they learn their lesson after the Rev. Moon "crowning" backlash?
People are out of work, or on their way out of work, South Asia's more on the brink than they usually are and we have eight years of damage to every aspect of American public policy to clean up. Forgive me if I couldn't care less who introduces Barack Obama to god on January 20.
Warren is fairly popular with a great number of people I disagree with. But PFAW either weren't paying attention when Obama said he wouldn't be living in a liberal bubble, or they should have voted for someone else. Go ahead, hear what the guy has to say. I'm pleased Barack Obama's going to have the final word for the next 4 years and I'm not worried he's so fragile he's going to be infected by conservative germs.
...to have an invocation and sometimes a benediction at these kinds of events. I have the feeling that Barack is not inviting Warren because he supports his kind of theocracy, but because he doesn't.
What better way to make the evangelical Warren-worshippers shut the F**k up than to let him "pray" at the inauguaration? Then, we never have to hear from him again and none of them can say Barack slighted them.... one and done.
Smart move.
this would do it. One can only hope.
...to thing that by giving this idiot a world stage that the "Warren-worshippers" will shut up. Quite the opposite is true. This will simply validate his interpretation of the christian mythology. One and done? Hardly. This will serve to make his following that much stronger.
As for the comment about letting the fundies have their say, they don't say anything except what bone heads like Warren tell them to say. They aren't capable of critical thinking or they wouldn't listen to shit heads like this.
That's all. Hoping that this move placates the fundies and evangelicals shows that some people haven't been paying attention to how they operate.
I suspect my opinion in just as valid as yours - so, I guess we'll just have to sit back a bit and see who is naive, won't we?
I suspect we will.
but your comment and others pushing the meme that he is doing some kind of Obama mind trick on a fundie like Warren reminds me of the saying "Hope in one hand, poop in the other, and see which one gets filled up first".
Speculate all you want, The Big O just showed you where he stands on the issue of homosexuality, equal marriage rights, and a whole host of other things.
I voted for the guy because I know things would be worse under McCain, and I still believe that. That The Big O is really a stealth fundi xian is not surprising to me at all. Remember how he used a homophobic gospel singer in the early part of his preznit campaign? Not many do, but The Big O toured all around the country with the guy, drumming up support for his candidacy. No, I think you are just hoping way too much. The Big O is no friend of the LGBT community. Time to face up to it.
Exactly!
...beginning thinking they shouldn't be ignored because their leadership are a bunch of assholes. Their LEADERSHIP should be ignored but the fundie nuts should be heard at least.
The leadership should be ignored because they've been bought by the GOP but speaking to the issues of the people themselves would be better off.
Rich Warren uses God as an excuse to be a bigot.
..most bigots use gawd as an excuse, OR think they are Gawd..
I can't say "Rich Warren uses God as an excuse to be a bigot", as I don't know him that well. I think it would be prudent, not to dismiss their desires. I'm not happy with the blending of church/state in this instance or any as a matter of fact. I was hoping B.O. would have inherited some of his Mothers' belief towards same.
A president, being sworn in, is required to place a hand on the Holy Bible and say "so help me, God."
False. The oath of office does not mention a deity or the bible:
"Before he enter on the Execution of his Office, he shall take the following Oath or Affirmation:--'I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.' " [U.S. Constitution, Article II, Section 1] This is the only oath given in the Constitution, and it is entirely secular.
PS. I believe everyone has been a "bigot" at one time or another?
I agree. That's how we learn.
The down side is, some people don't learn. They're the problem.
That and their society that promotes such behavior.
I's a vicious circle. Something that is taught. Until people accept that they can think for themselves, we're all screwed.
Low functioners like Warren and everything from the last regime that he stands for belong NOWHERE in a country whose constitution states Separation of Church and State. Obama is a constitutional lawyer f'gawd's sake. We need to HEAR Obama state clearly, just as JFK did, that his belief system is personal and private.
So he chooses this piece of shit Warren, as extreme as Falwell to "invoke blessings" from where? The same pit of hell from which we were hoping to emerge?
He owes Warren and those batshits nothing. They'll bite the hand that feeds them and every other hand they can reach. We need to witness one gesture of sanity after all we've been through. So far I've not been able to wipe this chronically worried look off my brow.
I personally don't care for Rick Warren, but it's not surprising that Obama chose him. Obama has made no secret of his religiosity. As long as it isn't deleterious to his governing, who cares?
Good point. If he starts talking crazy, saying that God whispered in his ear or looking into peoples eyes and seeing their souls like the WarPig claimed, then it's time to worry.
The problem is probably what Obama will do with his "streamlined, restructured" faith-based initiatives that Bush initiated with an Executive Order because Congress would not approve them. We'll see then how much Obama respects the separation of church and state.
I agree!
It must be done because so many idiots in this country believe it is important. Obama could not have been elected if he had not bowed to some god or another. No person can be elected to any high office in the US unless they do so.
I keep hoping some day our nation will grow up and recognize ethics and morality as separate from private personal faith.
While I'm at it, I'd also like a pony.
I'm disappointed he chose Warren. This is the guy who just awarded Bush the first "International Medal of Peace".
Speaking of Bush, here is his last Christmas Message to America.
http://santabush.com/
I'm sorry to know Warren will be there. Not surprised - just unhappy.
*
I will bet some serious money that Obama never tells us that god told him to go to war or invade a country. We have to readjust to having sanity in the white house. We are used to everything that happens there being crooked, illegal and just plain wrong. Things are going to change and it will be for the better. Of course there are the attack dogs that will nip at Obama's heels for every move he makes, that's what they do, but for the rest of us let's just watch and see the big picture.
...that the choice was not Obama's. These things are mostly decided by the committee that's arranging the inauguration ceremony. I'll bet somewhere right now, Obama's looking at his blackberry and going "WTF?"
Obama has so little input into his own inauguration that "someone" could put a bigot on the program without his knowledge?
Rev Wright was unavailable?
/I know...I know...
There are good non political preachers out there.
How about some non denominational preacher or something...or better yet, no religious ceremony at all!?!
These fundies should NOT be given such an audience, ever!
Does any of this matter to Obama?
Does he think about what choices like this look like to the people like me who supported his bid for president?
Maybe he doesn't give a shit.
Is there any preacher who did not or would not have supported Prop 8? I mean any that the right wing think are normal?
Does anyone remember who filled this space at either of bush's swearing in events? See, that's how unimportant it is.
It doesn't matter in the long run. I think the trend is what is bothering some of us. Obama seems to be catering to the right wing. Whatever happened to "political capital"?
You are absolutely right on this patricia. It matters not who is present at the ceremony, or who says what, but only what Obama's actions are after the inauguration when his work begins.
We will see within a few weeks what the flavor of his presidency will be - and then we can be pissed or joyful.
I agree.. however, I'm just personally hurt by this. Having been closeted and actually working in a church very much like Warren's, I know from personal experience how damaging he and his kind can be (and are)..
I'm still hopeful for the future with an Obama administration - I'm just disappointed in the moment and wish maybe the bone had been thrown our way this time..
David
politician. He knows Warren is an asshole.
He's trying to de-fuse the culture war.
Disclaimer: I didn't vote for Obama in the general and am not an apologist for him.
...then he is truly naive. It will have ZERO impact in that regard.
you apparently are just as naive as I am (I made a similar comment above at 14:20 something), according to those who don't understand politics.
I was just hoping that "change we can believe in" actually meant something.
what is naive?
[nah-eev]
–adjective 1. having or showing unaffected simplicity of nature or absence of artificiality; unsophisticated; ingenuous.
2. having or showing a lack of experience, judgment, or information; credulous: She's so naive she believes everything she reads. He has a very naive attitude toward politics.
3. having or marked by a simple, unaffectedly direct style reflecting little or no formal training or technique: valuable naive 19th-century American portrait paintings.
4. not having previously been the subject of a scientific experiment, as an animal.
It means his rabid supporters will be just like the NeoCon attack dogs, calling you all kinds of names, and comparing your spouses to anything vile. There's your change. Just read any Dem supportive blog site since the election. Obviously, if you don't "Hope" for change from Obama, you are a Rethug or a troll to be called all kinds of names because you know in the real world, everything is Dem vs. Rep.
John, it's nice to see you questioning some of his decisions. Other partisan posters don't seem to be able to do that. That is why I truly like your site. Even though you are obviously a Dem, you STILL question. You should consider politics yourself?
Why not buy the world a Coke and keep it company, after all it's what the world wants today...the Real Thing.
John Amato said, "
"but I have to say that Obama's decision on this one is highly insulting."
I say,
Obama insulted me a long time ago when he voted to re-new the Patriot act...
then he really pissed me off when he voted for the homegrown terror act...
outrage befell me when he cast a yes vote on the telecom immunity bill...
then he voted yes for the bankster bailout...
I am (like) ...so way beyond insulted that its not even funny.
It's not JUST about this decision, it's about a list of things that he has done that really have me wondering what we are going to get.
and maybe we'll see "Change" or the SOS (same old...)
Then, once they get elected, they kick us in the balls.
As a forced-born-aginner from the days my momma was still wearing a hatchin' sack, I am moved by the Holy Ghost to lay virtual hands upon Br'er Warren, and turn his thoughts t'other cheek: Namely, the arse which he doth maketh of himself.
Verily I say unto thee, Br'er Warren, if thee have but ears to hear, let y'all hear, now: Today thou struttest and preenest before large audiences and many microphones and cameras, but gird thy loins against the day when pride doth burst thy bubble (or ego, whichever cometh first.)
Preach it!
I am trying to give you all the benefit of the doubt, but you are really testing my patience, really testing it. RICK WARREN for God's sakes, so toe speak??????
What Jeremiah Wright wasn't available?
I'm no fan of Warren's, but I think that choice is in keeping with Obama's non-exclusionary approach.
This IS unfortunate.
*
I don't know why. This is exactly what you SHOULD expect from Obama. He is one of THEM, John.
Wake up.
No person in the US of A gets to be President unless they have the blessing of the Powers that Be. Now, I voted for Barack, because I think there's still a remote chance he might do the right thing in some impportant areas - but mainly because I really just wanted a President who can speak the langauge.....in complete sentences.
You take into consideration that he might be trying to heal the country.
You guys don't get it. Obama won on a platform of change -- as in change to the usual politics. That means embracing your enemies and loving them -- not turfing them out and giving them ongoing excuses to hate you.
Every single 'inclusive' move Obama has made so far has been criticized by sour grapes -- and every single decision has come to look prescient after the fact. The way he honored his campaign opponents. To the way he honored Hilary Clinton. To the way he included opponents in his Cabinet. And he will keep doing this. With actions such as inviting Rick Warren. Treating Bush with honor. And so on. Not because these people "deserve" it. But because Obama is a big enough man to be able to do so... and change the political climate in the process.
Obama picks his battles. Maybe we need to learn to do that too.
...Bush deserves prison, not honor. I understand his desire to unite, (have you noticed how well that's working with the MSM?), but neocons are not going to accept him no matter how inclusive he chooses to be. If we haven't learned that lesson by now, we never will.
Neocons need to be cut from the herd and treated as insignificantly as their policies are. Warren is a neocon/homophobe and should have no role in the inauguration.
not a red america or a blue america........just americans. we need to get a lot done. this is how achieve it.
kill'em with kindness.......i think it's great. the evangelical haters don't know what to do.check mate..
to please all the people all the time.
Lighten up folks, please. There are most important things in the big picture.
Will Warren be the only member of the clergy to speak?
You betcha.
The reason I asked that is because for some reason I thought different ministers or whatever spoke from different religions at this sort of thing.
I guess he could have Palin's head hunter preacher guy up there too.
By no means am I calling anyone stupid, I'm a Liberal and I love this website and I agree with most liberals, lefties and progressives on many issues.
But the obama/warren partnership has been long in the making and it's not like we didn't see this coming...(from the Baptist Press no less).... http://www.sbcbaptistpress.org/bpnews.asp?ID=...
PLUS: I love Kucinich and even he would have had the Dali Lama up there.
Common ground has been found.
What a concept.
...but I heard that Dubya had taken care of the AIDS problem in Africa. It's all part of his legacy...didn't you hear?
/snark
Chimpy's been successful at that as everything else in his life.
/snark ;D
Just as I feared.... Obama will be a bigger disappointment than Clinton. Shafting progressives and playing right into the hands of the wacko's committed to destroying his presidency. This election was only all about Bush fatigue, and the R's will regroup, do the liberal smear thing again and again. A Democrat will never again admit to being liberal or progressive-something which the country would embrace if these idiots would only try. I will never vote for another Democrat again.
If you have to do these things, Rev. Dr. C. Welton Gaddy is the only person that should have been considered. Not that divisive PoS Warren.
My preference would be no clergy, but Gaddy is an EXCELLENT choice if you must do it.
obama will have the last laugh. obama is NOT concerned about petty bullshit. asking about this is fine. i could be wrong but i believe obama knows what he is doing.
Why the surprise?
If you have been watching South Park, you would understand the reason why Obama and McCain act in a strange way:
http://www.southparkstudios.com/episodes/207897/
Aside from seriousness, I think Obama is just trying to reach across the aisle, but I wonder if it works, especially considering the amount of attacks, and hatred the right wingers express against him everyday. If they believe he is not just a liberal, but a Muslim, a terrorist, an extreme Black Christian, a communist , all that together, then everything good he does to them , will be treated as if he is trying to cover up.
NOTE to admins:
After I wrote my newspaper article above, I clicked preview, I got "Unknown error occurred", and all the buttons were disabled. I had to refresh the page.
Obama did say he was going to be president of all Americans. Why does it piss you off that he's bridging to the theocrats? They are American's too. After the last 8 years where the Wingnuts had their way and shut us out it's understandable that you all figure it's our turn now, but that road is deadly. I'm impressed. Obama understands what his best shot to heal the nation is. Before you pass judgment, why don't you wait to see what actually becomes policy regarding the issues that sets us against the theocrats
- stem cell research
- abortion
- family planning
- right to a dignified death
- gay rights
- teaching of creationism as science
If you don't see progress then go ahead and bitch. But, he's the Prez to be and let's give him a chance to do it his way first.
They are enemies of democracy. They can't be anything but enemies to democracy because they want their minority beliefs to be law. So why give them validity by allowing this yahoo to speak when he is clearly against every item on your list (except teaching creationism, I'm sure he's all for that).
Really good points. You are right. I think we progressives are simply fed up. The Bush years have made us afraid to believe anything good could happen! We should surely wait and see.
We should have nominated a real Democrat like Kucinich or Dodd. Obama the centrist will bring many right wingers close to him. That has been my beef against Obama from the start. He's too centrist for me.
" I've been very supportive of Obama so far, but I have to say that Obama's decision on this one is highly insulting. "
What's insulting about this? Obama's smart. Warren has millions of followers. It's SMART POLITICS for Obama to enlist all those Christians in support of his presidency.
Think of it: Warren will invoke God's blessing on Barack Hussein Obama, and call on all good christian Americans to bow their heads and pray for the new Democratic president.
If they balk, they will come across as uncharitable at best, hateful at worst.
Red-staters who criticize Warren for blessing Obama will only help weaken the fundamentalist movement.
Smart move all around.
...this will have. Most fundies are uncharitable (except to their chosen religious leader) and hateful already, so that's nothing new.
Any of his followers who disagree with Warren blessing Obama have a myriad of other mythologists to choose from. It won't weaken the fundie movement a bit.
Having Warren bow his head and bless the (Black, Democratic) President will not, in and of itself, neutralize the religious right.
But it's a small, symbolic step in the right direction.
The important thing is clearing the nutbars and faith-based incompetent appointees out of the federal agencies & departments, embassies, advisory boards, academies of science, cabinet, judiciary etc, etc. Bush appointed thousands of far-right conservatives to important (and unimportant) offices, and Obama will have the power to replace every single one of them.
Warren's invocation will take all of 5 minutes, if that. Big Deal.
It does, however, legitimize the religious right. The RR needs to be marginalized not propped up.
Saw this comment at Balloon Juice:
If you followed the internal politics of evangelical and fundamentalist leaders, you'd see this for what it is—not an elevation of Warren, but a slap in the face of the old guard leaders like Dobson and LaHaye. They've been fighting to see who gets to be the spokesman for the movement, and lately it's been a tie. Obama just broke it.
And let's be clear, there is a difference between those groups. Warren may not be progressive on gay rights, but he's been out front on a number of issues of global justice—traveling from Davos to Damascus, and working hard to get rank-and-file evangelicals invested in "creation care" environmentalism and the fight against global HIV/AIDS.
If he were put in charge of HHS or listened to on gay policies, I'd be pissed. But what Obama is doing here isn't that. It's a move that marginalizes the worst on the religious right, elevates a guy who's more progressive than most religious leaders on a number of issues, and earns him some moderate cred at the outset.
If Obama sells out on the progressive promise in actual policy, I'll be in the streets protesting with everyone else. But if his "selling out" is having a fairly moderate, popular evangelical give the invocation at the inaugural—when large sections of this country still worry Obama's a scary evil Mooooslim—then who gives a flying fuck?
B ut Rick Warren is a religious right wing douche bag. He and his ilk need to be marginalized out of politics.
You know, I'm getting pretty phuckin' tired of being "Bitch-Slapped" in the interest of bipartisan, pacification. I don't buy into that "Turn the other Cheek" crap to begin with. Being an independent or progressive democrat does not have to mean being a wimp.
Rick Warren published a book that sold millions. He is very well known among his peers. He has a great following and he is phoney baloney, phooey...
I think someone unknown would have been a whole lot better. RW head swells...YUCK!!
don't underestimate obama's ability to find common ground among the opposing parties/demographics. he was known for this at the harvard law review. we need compromise right now. i can't believe some people won't/ can't compromise on this.
I think Barack should've chosen someone from The Sojourners there in DC to give the address.
I doubt a rightwingnut is going to give America much hope.
Rev. Joe
I suppose he could have picked Ted Haggert.
That would have gone over well.
This doesn't really concern me. Now if Obama appoints Rich Warren to the Supreme Court then I'll have a problem.
Bingo. Nail on the head.
should not pander to the right. They are already trying to destroy him with their attempts to taint him with the Illinois Governor "Weird Hair." This is a disappointing pick, but I assume that he is trying to be all things to all people.
If he goes that way, he will wind up being nothing to nobody.
no better than trying to fool all of the people all of the time...
The only 2 ways for a politician to score points with the fundies is to either give them power and money or to become one of them. Short of providing one or both of these things, one remains the enemy.
From a previous blog post on C&L
"Last night, on Fox News, Sean Hannity insisted that United States needs to "take out" Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Warren said he agreed."
He agreed. That's all I need to know about this phony christian. Obama is making a mistake, but on the other hand a little prayer isn't that big a deal. Hopefully Obama won't seek his "guidance" through the years and has the wisdom to see through this vile warmonger.
man, if this isn't throwing his supporters under the bus, then i don't know what is.
There's not much room left under that funky old bus.
grrrr I hate to do it but I'm gonna place the blame on all the Obamaphiles who never wanted to hear any criticism of their candidate. Many many times people tried to say that Obama might throw too many bones at the right .... and here we are. What's next a "moderate" for the Supreme Court? Grrrrrr!!
ANyway people like Rick Warren (and those that would associate with him) need to be MARGINALIZED.
/fucking pissed!
What if he chooses "conservatives"?
Nothing would surprise me anymore, not after his turn away from progressivism and a rejection of the Bush agenda to the right on several occasions.
I voted for him. I'm still willing to "wait and see" what actually gets done, but millions will be very angry if he continues in this direction, and he will have spent the Democratic good-will capital even before they've gone a mile.
If Obama really wanted to be inclusive of difference, why not have a UU CUUPS minister, a witch, or the Dali Lama?
And who does this benefit - except crazy preacher Warren? The fundies will still hate Obama and everything he does; the GOP will still stall everything and threaten filibusters and make the Dem majority shit their pants so the GOP can take over in 2012; the media will still tear the Obama administration apart, like they did Clinton.
So why pander to the right and piss off your base. Why doesn’t Obama just blow Warren at the inauguration - same diff?
The sick thing is either Obama is just another stupid fundie and doesn't give a shit about teh gays and the people who voted for him, or Obama has prostituted both the country and his own mind:
“It is impossible to calculate the moral mischief, if I may so express it, that mental lying has produced in society. When a man has so far corrupted and prostituted the chastity of his mind as to subscribe his professional belief to things he does not believe he has prepared himself for the commission of every other crime.”
Obama said that he is "doing God's work".
Shit.
or perhaps, David Duke?
i love it when obaminists start doing what the bushestias did, explain away every bad desion they made by useing i think what hes doing or saying is this or that , and is not what he ment to say or do, good luck with the explainations !
So John, I heard you on NPR a couple of Sundays ago giving us all guidance on how we should give Obama some space, my man is not engaging in change, plane and simple, unless one thinks completely disposing of your base after an election is change..
Are you coming around yet John?
This is fucking weakness on display.
We have been played for suckers.
He needs to weigh in here.
Along with Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, Zeus and Big Foot.
Great answer, but I was refering to the "Real" B.J.
baby jesus wishes Obama would be sworn in by Richard Dawkins
wishes he would be sworn in by Richard Simmons.
Do you mean to tell me that Obama is continuing to pander to evangelicals?
I thought it was just something he had to do to get elected...
We're exchanging Bush's creeps with Obama's creeps.
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