Rick Warren is the new Jerry Falwell: 'The Bible says that God puts government on earth to punish evildoers.'
By John Amato Friday Dec 05, 2008 9:00am
Rick Warren tries to paint himself as a moderate evangelical, but after watching his performance on Hannity and Colmes I can safely say that's he's filling the void left by Jerry Falwell.
Last night, on Fox News, Sean Hannity insisted that United States needs to "take out" Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Warren said he agreed. Hannity asked, "Am I advocating something dark, evil or something righteous?" Warren responded, "Well, actually, the Bible says that evil cannot be negotiated with. It has to just be stopped.... In fact, that is the legitimate role of government. The Bible says that God puts government on earth to punish evildoers. Not good-doers. Evildoers."
That's pretty sick stuff for a "man of God." I have no problem with religion since I grew up as a Catholic and a lot of people derive comfort from it, but watching fools like Warren on TV promote attacking another country is just too much. And I agree with Matt Duss also:
Does Warren really consider it part of his ministry to sanctify the inch-deep theologizing-cum-warmongering of thugs like Sean Hannity? If so, who else does Warren think Jesus would bomb?
.
I'm pretty sure that Warren uses the word "repent" when he's headlining at his mega-church so I hope he takes the time to reflect on it and practice it.
And here's what Falwell said about George Bush on January 8, 2004:
FALWELL: I think, in his next four years in office, he is going to -- well, look at what's happening to the economy now. Look what's happening to America, what she thinks of herself today. It's so great that we have George Bush sitting there and not Al Gore.
Yes, it was so great to have George Bush and conservatism destroy this great nation, Jerry. And how can we forget this incredible warmongering tirade from another "Man of God."
Falwell: If it takes ten years, blow them all away in the name of the lord.
Jackson. That does not sound biblical to me.
Login or Register to post comments.
Carlin says
So go away parasitic shaman.
You beat me to it, Carlin makes more sense than all of these fear monsters.
Seems like anyone with big hair and a TV camera qualifies as a "prophet of god"
1. The bible does NOT say that is the role of gov.
2. The bible DOES SAY that false prophets will burn in hell
'nuff said.
That would be a neat trick for a non existent, make believe sky fairy to pull off now wouldn't it?
Personally I think statements like this suggest some kind of mental illness and this guy is probably in need of therapy and meds. Heavy meds.
I am not sure you can be a true progressive and believe in any god.
Religion is the ultimate regressive force in the world. That's why so
called conservatives embrace it.
It's also been a proven method of control for thousands of years.
Which is why conservotards love it so much.
Fear and hate all wrapped up in one convenient god shaped package.
I'm a christian and a progressive. If you want to have a sinful life that is your choice, and I have no place to judge you. Neither do any of these religious idealogues that promote war elsewhere to avoid it in the US. They are a misrepresentation of christianity.
Christ's number one law is to love one another, number two is to honor one another as thyself. As christians, we are to bring people together in the name of GOD, not promote division. We are to love our enemy, not seek to murder. If you go to less "industrialized" nations, you see that the church is a place where the community comes together to further GOD's kingdom. In America it just isn't that way. Church is about community, and providing for one another in the name of GOD. So your comment that christians cannot be progressive is really stab in the back to the individuals that want to improve the American, and Global, community. You as a progressive, though not necessarily because you want to do it in the name of GOD, want the same thing. Otherwise you are mislabeling yourself as a progressive.
Individuals such as Jerry Falwell and Rick Warren have seriously caused many people to choose against religion because of their distorted interpretations of the bible. Nowhere does it say in the bible that government is placed on earth to kill evildoers. GOD uses people to seek his will, but we don't really have any incite to what his will is as sinners.
I usually get backlash on this site for expressing my faith in GOD, but I hope that you that don't believe will see through the rottenness spewing from Falwell and Warren and see that most christians do not support their doctrine.
It's the messenger, (False Prophet) that we need to ignore.
Even suggesting that someone else might be living a 'sinful' life is a judgment. People aren't sinners. They're just people.
People choose "against" religion because they come to their senses. It's merely that the so called 'hateful' xians are the ones who make the insanity of it all so clear. So they are good for that at least.
No one needs rituals or a pretend god to to live, be good, be spiritual or be happy. It's all personal choice and religion is just a giant basket of excuses that people choose to live their lives by.
No one needs a god.
Plenty of people live without any god and still manage to live good lives without any imaginary sky daddy hovering above like an angry hornet.
As a matter of fact I would suggest they live BETTER lives because they are able to see things rationally rather than through the veil of their personal religious prejudices.
So instead of spending all their time and energy screeching at women for their private personal health choices a rational person might say, "Hey I should help provide for people who can't provide for themselves because I'm a human being and instead of giving lip service to the sanctity of life I'm actually going to help living beings that need it."
If "most xians" don't support the doctrine the above idiots are spewing then why do these scumbags sleep in mansions, fly on private planes and live like emperors? Where the hell does all that tax free cash come from if not from the deluded sheep who believe the constant flow of garbage spewing forth from these fools?
There's nothing wrong with personal spirituality. But there's nothing spiritual or personal about organized religion or the filth that spills from the mouths of scum wads like those quoted in this article.
Those million are in the minority of christians. Organized religion is a disease for those that are gullible enough to consider the false doctrine. As christians we must also be able to discern the truth from the lies.
I can hear you screaming already that I have fallen for the false doctrine. With that, I wish you well, and pray your life is blessed.
Away from this, we must still come together and work to improve this country and world. If we don't come together, as christians, muslims, atheists, and whatever other religion you may practice (or not), then surely the global community with further corrode.
Unfortunately, the truth is that our hearts will seek power and money. So long as this is true, we will never have true change. Perhaps we can come together enough for Universal Healthcare or a nationalized energy policy. That sure would be nice.
Your "faith" is a belief in that which is unverifiable. Religion has stood in then way with progress and has stood shoulder to shoulder with tyrants since time began.
The message of Christ is good, but still damns his children to hellfire and explicitly states that a pedophile can be saved, a murderer can be saved, but if I denounce the holy spirit, I am lost forever.
"Faith" is a disease. You need treatment.
I'm not too crazy about your opening statement. Nuff said?:
"I'm a christian and a progressive. If you want to have a sinful life that is your choice... "
I saw no point reading beyond that. How you say things matters very much.
I'm a Christian,
When I say I'm a Christian, it means that I AM a sinner.
I'm hopeful for our country and the world (I actually despise the saying "God Bless America", as if OUR country "deserves" God's blessing more than any other, phhfftt), that the power of the right wing, conservative "Christians" is slowly eroding.
Peace to all.
As a christian, I have to acknowledge my sinful ways. The premise is quite simple. Confess your sins and your forgiven. I'm not going to preach as this could become quite a debate. I wasn't insulting anybody is the short statement, it's simply the truth about every single one of us.
jeez...how can one decry bigotry and still be a religious bigot
From what I heard Fallguy needs an overdose to shut him up.
Dontcha love religun? Kill, kill, kill. Then go somewhere else and kill, kill kill.
Nobody is safe from these folks. :(
In their book it tells them such things as this in Luke 19:27 "But as for these enemies of mine who didn't want me to be their king-bring them here and slaughter them in my presence!'"
They will never agree to disagree. We will never have peace as long as religion tells them to kill and as long as they believe that when they check out of their earthly being, they will get everlasting life, Oh ya and the virgin thing!! As long as we can keep them in check, we will find the truth. Do onto others my ass... outlandish hypocrites thats all
Wow, way to take a quote from the Bible completely out of context. You sure you're not a Christian? :)
That quote is from a hypothetical king in a parable told by Yeshua, not some scriptural dogma in case you were unaware.
Christians obviously don't have the corner on the intolerance market as evidenced by some posts in this thread.
I said this before, and I'll say it again. If any pastor, priest, minister, shaman, 'dime store match book cover' biblical type ever utters a political statement (liberal or conservative) to their 'flock' and can be captured on film, audio, ... whatever. Tax these pricks! Tax 'em hard! Tax 'em long! This will get these pontificating blowhards in check.
Yeah
this pseudo-xtian is advocating state-sanctioned assasinations, nice. love thy enemy as you snuff out their life, eh ricky?
i am curious to hear more about how this bumblefuck envisions the US military as the arm of god...
if so, warren better watch the fuck out. god would send a couple of A10 warthogs to minigun him down.
this isn't christianity, it is insanity.
Christianity is insanity.
i agree
They're synonyms.
It's such a human story. The jealous and controlling father gives his unruly first son dominion over the earth which he uses to torture and maim us for eons. The second good son is tortured and then murdered and then deified in a weird cannibalistic ritual.
It's a bronze age soap.
a buffoon, but for world-class religious intolerance and wing-nuttery I nominate the "Way Of The Master" idiots, Kirk Cameron, Gary Comfort, and their newest snake oil salesman, Todd Friel. These guys make Falwell and Robertson seem like Ghandi.
using a banana?
that's them. As a recovering Catholic, I have this bizarre fascination with religion, especially the extreme wing-nut variety. As the saying goes, "Politics is show business for ugly people." I would suggest that fundamentalist religions, of any denomination, are show business for sexually confused people.
... why is Afghanistan a mess?
... why is Pakistan a mess?
... why isn't it truly, 'Mission Accomplished' in Iraq?
Substituting Biblical doctrine for sound reasoning in foreign policy is ridiculous.
And when Christians stop circle-jerking each other with things like Warren's pompous 'International Medal of PEACE,' then perhaps we'll have a conversation about trafficking with evil.
Not to mention, we're the ones who brought Saddam to power, created al-Qaeda, and overthrew the Shah. Ooops.
I think that most are missing the point of Warren, for him it is about money. Warren and his Elmer Gantry ilk have always been about the money and this is red meat for the people that give him money, lots of money. So when you hear Warren talk like this remember that he is not doing this for God, Jesus, or christianity he is doing it for money.
Money is definitely his God.....
...as money is the Root of all Evil - money must be Satan!!
Warren is, therefore, a Satan Worshipper!!!
from Americans United for the Separation of Church and State: "Proposals have been introduced in Congress that would permit houses of worship to engage in partisan politicking - including endorsing or opposing candidates - yet allow the religious institutions to retain their tax-exempt status. One measure, Rep. Walter Jones' "Houses of Worship Free Speech Restoration Act," was drafted with input by attorneys with TV preacher Pat Robertson's American Center for Law and Justice and is backed by numerous Religious Right organizations."
DO SOMETHING. got to www.au.org. See if there is a local chapter of americans united for separation of church and state in you area. If not, consider starting a chapter. This sh@t has got to stop. The religionists have no sense of boundary, and will intrude into every aspect of our free society if left unchecked.
Recently, the Cincinnati Z00, a publicly funded organization, was about to enter into a business collaboration with the Creation Museum, (the notorious farce located in Northern Kentucky). An alert physician found out about it and raised awareness to stop it.
Any c&Lers in the greater cincinnati area contact me to help start a local chapter: rick@rickstreet.com
Spot on stuff here.
the cincy zoo, and maybe all zoos, has had a long, historical battle between the business side and the animal side within the zoo itself.
this was a terrible markting decision, and i can guarantee that the rank and file employees (the keepers, the education dept, etc.) were disgusted by this move. maybe more like embarrassed and outraged.
i know the cincy zoo, intimately. and i was SHOCKED when i heard about this. that is, until i remembered all the other business-led ideas that were so effin atrocious.
And where the fuck does Hannity get off lecturing anyone on religion?
said, more people have died because of religion than from any other cause. Whenever I mention this to a religious nut, they say it's the misuse of religion that is the cause. I then ask about the 6th commandment, Thou Shalt Not Kill. (Notice it's #6 after the first 5 thought crimes). A true Christo-zombie usually responds by saying that the commandment is translated as Thou Shalt Not 'Murder'. They can usually point to some Biblical verse to justify the killing of someone who, as Carlin said, prays to a different invisible man in the sky than they do.
If there is a hell these assholes will be rotting there for eternity. Unfortunately I don't think there really is a hell.
Though I'm sure you've seen this? Christopher Hitchens on Hannity & Colmes about Rev. Falwell's Death. See > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doKkOSMaTk4
Gee, I thought that Repugnikans were in favor of limiting the role of governments. Silly me.
Not when it makes the elites of the military-industrial-christofascist complex rich. Then it's Katie bar the door.
= "Christian," am I right?
Remember, dude, that no one outside of your collective gives a shit about your ideology. Our job is to make sure you don't get a seat at the adults table; you're free to entertain the children all you want.
Why would God establish churches to punish evil-doers; wouldn't he have to punish the evil doers who run the churches he set up?
Wouldn't that make the All-Perfect God less than perfect?
Q: If God punishes evil-doers, where's the best place for an evil-doer to hide?
A: In the pulpit.
The all perfect God isn't even close to perfect, after all she created this shithole of a rock third from the sun. Actually, the rock ain't too shabby, it's the human inhabitants who have royally fucked it up.
I hope the worms are having a hearty meal on Falwell's corpse. Fuckin' scumbag.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jul640Ra5MI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRQ3a--vCRU
burrowed into his fat head starved to death, once they ate all the shit.
gagging!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VU3JrXt_cPk
The doctrinal foundation of Warren's religion is blood sacrifice so none should be suprised with his advocating war. The Abrahamic religions offer nothing but sorrow, suffering and death, as history illustrates.
I was a member and attendee of Saddleback for years. In 2004, it became obvious that Rick has jumped off the deep end for the thugs in the White House. I quit attending and these recent posts of W getting an award and Rick being a war monger reinforce my beliefs that made me leave Saddleback. Falwell in a flowered shirt with no socks. Get back to the Bible Rick, that is where you were best.
Is Saddleback anywhere near Brokeback?
Glad to see you reclaimed your mind. Welcome back to the rational world.
This view of government is consistent with Edmund Burke in Reflections on the Revolution in France.
Trouble is Burke was a Monarchist.
"first-ever international medal of peace" [if you ignore the nobel peace prize, that is. and all the other human rights awards, etc.]
but, i digress.
bush was awarded this so-called PEACE award by rick warren. but, mind you, this is not about peace.
from hannity and colmes (sorry):
COLMES: But to give a peace award to a guy who started two wars...neither of which are completed yet. [...]
WARREN: Well, the Peace Award was not about peace in domestic -- or foreign policy.
*bangs head on keyboard*
Genesis 4:17 (KJV) And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.
Where the hell did she come from? Was there another Genesis just down the road, or did Cain marry a sister?
when peter gabriel was still kickin' it with the boys from genesis
That's why I hated the movie American Psycho.
He was a Phil Collins fan.
This son of a bitch is scary. I saw some of this exchange the other night (its funny that I have not seen one second of Hannity and Colmes in months and as soon as I watch a couple minutes of it you have a post about the segment I happened to see). The god squad fuckers are the most insane people on earth. Ricky Warren says the same crap as Pat Robertson. Didn’t Robertson say that Hugo Chavez should be assassinated?
These people wolves in sheep's clothes. they are hypocrites of the worst kind.
all the while robertson was pallin' around with charles taylor from liberia. robertson-taylor-liberia.
now, i don't think pat robertson hacked off any limbs with machetes himself, but i am sure he watched and enjoyed. busy hands.
[We now know that in April 1999, Charles Taylor and Pat Robertson signed a document labeled "Mineral Development Agreement between the Republic of Liberia and Freedom Gold Limited". By signing his agreement, Taylor was, in fact, assigning gold mining concession rights to Pat Robertson from an established businessman, Ken Ross II, whose Bocon Jideh gold-mining operation dates back to the Tolbert administration.
According to the GQ article, Pat Robertson has committed at least US$15 million of investment to Freedom Gold. The terms of contract call for Freedom Gold to spend about US$500,000 annually in investment and rental fees in Liberia. "The agreement gives Freedom Gold the right to mine, sell, export and explore minerals, with an additional 3 percent royalty rate to be paid to the government of Liberia."]
http://www.theperspective.org/patrobertson_ta...
and please leave wolves out of this, they shouldn't be sullied by any comparison to these criminals :)
Its quite funny that a so-called man of God would promote killing anyone, let alone the country in the Middle East where Christians are converting the fastest.
fallwell is at this very moment on his knees in front of the devil worshiping the devils member!and the devil gets his just rewards!
Jerry Falwell has braces?
Osculum infame.
http://www.satanservice.org/graphics/kiss-of-...
Well, Warren is an official Kool Aid drinker now. He probably always was, but feels now is his time to show the world that's he's no different than Falwell or Robertson. He figures Falwell is dead, and Robertson is old, so he's going to fill the void.
there should be more money available for warren, right? That is the "void" he is filling - the money pit at which these guys officiate. As earlier posters have said, it is all about the money.
He's even doughy like Falwell...
That headline is exactly what my wealthy, right-wing mother believes. She gets furious at the idea of her taxes going to social services and education, but has no problem with them going to fund prisons, the military, and police. To her, like to this guy, government is all about punishment, bringing pain to people, something that fills her with righteous fervor.
"Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor" unless thy neighbor be a black man running for president of the US.
Evil is comfortable draped in the garments of religion.
Again it's a synonym. Religion = evil.
Notice how often these buffoons introduce a comment with the assertion "The Bible says" or "Scripture says" ... and how seldom they document the assertion by citing chapter and verse in context?
what about the translation? How many of these guys REALLY check to see if even the very definitions of the key words are correct.
Rick Warren is more concerned with wealth and power than he is with what the Bible contains. He's forgetting the first commandment "Thou shalt have no other god before Me". Direct translation: do not worship idols. Money and power are idols. Looks like Rick blew it.
You shouldn't trust a phony christian with the name of War-In. To hell with all these warmongering freaks.
So lying about Obama is not a sin, obviously.
Oh, and I had always thought it was the 8th Commandment...How I now is: I hand-copied the 10 Commandments about 10,000 times for the nuns when I was in grammar school. Yeah, I've always been disobedient...
Warren is a war mongering, hypocritical douchebag. Why does he still have a tax exemption?
so when is hannity going to be punished? he is as evil as it gets. the proof that their religious views are shit is that hannity and others like him, continue spewing hate and violence and an antichrist message if there ever was one, and are NOT struck down by an angry and wrathful God. if what they profess were true, people like hannity would immediately cease to function and would be smitten with horribly gruesome fates and long, tortured deaths.
the christianity of warren is hateful, vindictive, bigoted and immoral. his words are tripe.
remember the death process for tony snow - bush's enabler?
...the Bible say that God put governments on Earth to punish evil-doers? And isn't the Iranian government a government?
... didn't the government convict and execute this fellow named Jesus of Nazareth?
It says we should recognize government as authority and obey the laws of that authority. Nothing about deciding who is an "evil-doer". Warren is going out on a limb with that.
And yup, the Iranians have a government last time I checked. My question for Rick is when did God decide the US government was the ruler of the world? Our government has authority over US land and territory; nothing else.
when summoned by the aforesaid "war mongering, hypocritical douchebag."
Go figger, hunh?
You gotta play the game. Obama won 53% of the vote. Is it possible that 1/2/3% would not have voted for him had he not showed up and a big deal was made of it? Who knows, but Obama had to play this sick fucking game called politics, otherwise he loses.
I didn't like it either. But if Obama didn't show up to this megachurch megalomaniac's freak show, they would have accelerated their attacks on him as an athiest or muslim.
Hopefully the Obama administration can marginalize these christofascists during his terms, I guess we shall see.
The election is over woodhead...you might want to save your "this is the end of the world!" bullshit for 2012. Hannity would just love you.
... it's for people of faith to undertake, to reclaim their religion from corrupt frauds like Warren.
But let's also realize we're having a debate with delusional types who believe their God is right, so they must be right. That if the Bible is the Word of God, their interpretation of the Bible must be right. And so on.
Fri, 12/05/2008 - 10:07 — woody
He was a little unspecific, remember mcgramps was there to, and was championed by Warren, therefore it could be a reference to mcgramps.
Christians promoting murder....in God's name of course....Al Qaeda taught them well.
keep yoour fucking religion to yourself!!
... there was no fucking involved! It was a virgin birth!
And if there is fucking involved, why are the icons of the church a bunch of pasty, overweight white guys?
Only feed into assisting him gain more reknown. He really isn't worth talking about. There's nothing we can say to change his mind, so our rants are only venting that goes towards further division. As his supporters see us rant, they get angry, we get angry, and then what.
You're probably right, but the internet is all about ranting, even if most of us here are on the right side of the issues and realize most of these emperors have no clothes.
I don't rant anymore
I bought a condo.
That will give you something to rant about. Your freaky neighbors that won't let you join their orgy, that may give you something more to rant about.
Who's getting angry? Speak for yourself.
More often than not, I'll keep a civil tone and let the religious zealots blow their gaskets.
"No one defends human rights," he said. "Governments are cold beasts looking out for their own interests." - Francois Ponchaud
I think thats more accurate.
Religion is passed along the same way the belief in Santa Claus is ... childhood brainwashing. After hearing the truth about Santa, it is rather unbelievable that so many can continue in adulthood with their other belief system in tact. I think part of the problem is that most don't actually bother to read the Bible, which describes both a genocidal and murderous psychopath with an interest in fashion, and a loving father. Most don't even know that at the first Easter, the Bible claims the graves opened up and many religious leaders rose up and went back to town like a George Romero movie...an event remarkably unchronicled by the Romans or anyone else for that matter.
I really don't think Rick Warren is stupid enough to believe such nonsense, nor would he ever take the Biblical challenge that his belief would allow him to drink poison without the usual consequences. I'm pretty confident he knows that prayers are answered at the same rate as random chance for a very good reason.
I have thought about your premise a lot. The Santa Claus story is no more or no less a plausible story than the Jesus story, or any other deity for that matter. Kids are quick to dismiss the Santa fraud when they finally figure out the jig is up, yet they keep believing in the Jayzus fairy tale all their lives. Why is that?
I think religious beliefs persist due to parental and peer pressure. Churches organize all sorts of groups to keep like thinkers together and away from threats to their beliefs. And, instead of Christmas presents once a year to reward good behavior with no presents to punish bad, there is the afterlife promise of heaven and hell. Heaven satisfies the greed impulse, and hell the fear impulse.
Adult fairy tales New
Fri, 12/05/2008 - 10:40 — LazyCosmos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzlkvI9EZeA
The myth of Santa Claus is about rewarding good behavior, and perhaps related to lessons about object permanence. Just because something good happens to you (you got a present) doesn't necessarily means there's an authority figure keeping score; sometimes, good things happen for no reason, and if you don't get a present or recognition for something you did, it doesn't mean you were a bad person who did a bad thing.
The underlying story of Jesus Christ - or any other religion - is about 'explaining' natural phenomenon and imposing order upon a random and capricious universe. For others, it's about imposing that order upon others and punishing those of whom they disapprove.
While it shares some of the same elements as the Santa Claus story, it goes beyond Santa in that it ascribes far more power to the deity. Explain that rain is dependent on a cycle of evaporation/condensation, and the believer will tell you it's because God made it that way. (So we'd also have to believe that light was never refracted by water droplets prior to the end of the Flood.)
Of course, you can disprove Santa the moment you recognize your parents' handwriting on the gift label, or catch them in the act.
with Jesus.
Nobody sees it as their parental duty to disabuse kids of their childish infatuation with "Jesus," the way they do with other imaginary creatures, like Santa (Oh, wait, I'm real) or the Easter Bunny or the Tooth Fairy.
Listen to Hannity mouthing "we're born fallen" and other kindergarten nonsense, and listen to Warren confirming it like it's as obvious as gravitation or evolution. It's a silly doctrine that even early Christians didn't buy.
And listen to them both throw around the word "evil" like it's equally existent and beyond dispute.
The problem's not evil. The problem is ignorance - here, religious ignorance.
And that makes the deeper problem schools. They can't unteach religion's dogma - can you say lawsuit or loss of job? - so they let it go unchallenged, and we wind up with another generation of idiots in suits with big microphones, mouthing the inane teachings of childhood to adults in arrested development.
Anybody up for a "Question Your Preachers" campaign, aimed at the young? That would be the thin edge of the wedge.
Equipping our children with critical thinking skills would go a long way towards drawing the fangs of serpents, be they preachers or pustulent windbags like Hannity.
If not truly off their rockers these guys ( Including Pat Robertson ) are nothing but hustlers , shysters and frauds , in no way are they true Christians . It's a pity and absolutely frustrating that there are so many ignorant dummies who believe in and support these devils.
Jesus Christ is known as the Prince of Peace. For Rick Warren to advocate the killing of the head of a foreign country is so against everything that Jesus Christ ever taught I am dumbfounded that a guy like Rick Warren would utter it. There is NO teaching in the New Testament that I am aware of that would back his assertion.
And if governments are put in place to punish evildoers, what does Pastor Warren propose would be the appropriate punishment for the Bush/Cheney Administration? For the evil that they have perpetrated upon this earth is a hundredfold greater than any that the Iranian President has done.
The real reason Christ came was to re-estabish the covenant between God and man. He did not just die for our sins but undue the sin that Adam created. He also allowed the gates of heaven to be reopened. As he said " This my body and blood take from it so all sins will be forgiven do this in memory of me". Grace through his death.
Please. If you're going to present doctrine, spell it right: UNDO.
And the specific citation (Roman Catholic), which you can find online with a simple search, is:
"Take this, all of you, and drink from it: this is the cup of my blood, the blood of the new and everlasting covenant. It will be shed for you and for all so that sins may be forgiven. Do this in memory of me."
If you'll note, it's the pompous pronouncements of sanctimonious windbags like Warren and Hannity that's drawing the criticism. I mean, come on - just now ol' Sean is worrying about the theological import of cheerleading for war?
Butt isn't there at least three if not four versions of the same scene?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPuJzwtoKXk
... has side-by-side text for all four of the Eucharistic Prayers from the Catholic Liturgy.
". . . and thy cuppith flow to whom ever taketh thy sacrement. For thy garment is only cloth, but thy blood is king."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-vzjZenAQM
These cuppeth over flow too:
http://www.yourcelebritystuff.com/wp-content/...
Why do Christians let people like Warren speak for them?
Because it's always easier to follow than to think.
I guess there's no illusion as to why there's at least one parable used in the Bible that describes mankind as sheep.
I always wanted to be the wolf. The sheep would either end up his dinner, or grace the plate of the "Good Shepherd's".
Mary had a little lamb
Its fleece was white as snow
Mary passed the butcher shop
But the lamb went by too slow ...
This is the same guy who awarded Bush with a medal for he 'exemplary' work on peace and AIDS in Africa.
See, that is what is sick about Chrstians like Rick Warren. They are willing to let other people, like government, do the dirty job for them and 'go to heaven'. And then they tell you government is bad for the people. Bus as long as it kills in their religion, it is just fine with them. How sick and twisted these people are!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrzMhU_4m-g
Warren's "god" must be the god of hubris and deception, to whom he must pray a lot. Personally, I am tired of these egotistical hypocrites preaching their simplistic and delusional toxic waste disguised as spirituality as if it were the last word on the subject. I guess when all those dupes he calls followers throw all that money at your "ministry" then you develop amnesia about humility and accountability. Instead, he becomes this Zeus like figure hurling his thunderbolts of judgment and condemnation from his mighty Mt. Olympus.
Perhaps Warren should remember that the Bible most people have says that the meek shall inherit the earth---and judge not, lest ye be judged. And another thing---if you don't like our government, Rick, then get the hell out of our country because America does not do theocracy, pal.
Phonies like you bleat over and over to your dupes about adopting moral standards---here's a novel idea--start with YOURSELF first to lead by example. If that doesn't suit you---then pray for the wisdom of discretion contained in the Serenity Prayer---that your god of hubris and self-deception will never answer.
Didn't Zeus get several virgins pregnant in mythology?
I know he boinked Alcmene (Heracles ma), Europa in the form of a bull, and Danae with "golden rain," by apparently pissing on her.
Tar and Feather, public caning, exile to iran (helps with theocracy training), stoning (condoned by the bible).
... carries with it the implication that one has to let go ('accept the things I cannot change'). Evangelical Christianity isn't big on letting go.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itWoHzL6n-w
These insane Christian fascists, terrorists, and traitors hate everything the United States stand for. Why don't Christian piles of shit move to some other country where their ideologies of hate and theocracy are more in keeping with their idels? Like Iran?
God damned insane cultists. The religious are insane, all of them.
The idea that we have to kill the people who we currently consider our enemy before we can make peace with them is ridiculous. Quite obviously, our enemies are poor and not properly educated. People who are wealthy are reluctant to fight a war because they have to much to lose; people who are educated know better than to fight a dumb war.
What's funny is that this is not America the land of intellectualism battling terrorism and the land of anti-intellectualism, this is neo-conservative anti-intellectuals battling theocratic anti-intellectuals.
Only anti-intellectual, irrational pricks would honestly believe that killing could ever lead to peace.
Only
-Jeremy
JeremyAbrams.com
Ok, you're raising the issue. This isn't about Warren at all, but if you want to raise it, let's point out that communism, Nazism, etc all came crashing down pretty hard at the other side of a gun.
War has brought peace. It does happen. Will it happen this time? I don't think so. But to flip the whole thing around and say that killing can't every bring about peace is to ignore history and its lessons.
'The Bible says that God puts government on earth to punish evildoers.'
You first Rick! You bigot fuck!
... until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest."
I saw that pithy summation on another website. It's so true.
Religion and monarchy, the twin bedevilments of the human race.
to be one. He also said: "There's a bit of testicle at the bottom of our most sublime feelings and our purest tenderness." And: "There is no moral precept that does not have something inconvenient about it." Also: "It is very important not to mistake hemlock for parsley, but to believe or not believe in God is not important at all."
God puts governments on earth to punish evil doers! No ifs, ands, or buts!
". . . and go to the town on the hill where the ruler sits in judgement. Whence he judges there may be rod and stone alike to rain forth the will of God. The kingdom is not there or here, but in heaven. Neither king nor survent know the will of the Father."
Until the mother comes home.
She just pretends he's the rooster while she's really ruling the roost.
... a version called 'God's Word,' published in 1995.
"The government is God's servant working for your good. But if you do what is wrong, you should be afraid. The government has the right to carry out the death sentence. It is God's servant, an avenger to execute God's anger on anyone who does what is wrong."
While the King James gives the text (Romans 13:3 provided for context):
"For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: (4) For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil."
I believe other versions refer to a magistrate (judge) instead of a ruler, which would make the magistrate ... wait for it ... an activist judge!
This is simplistic, black-and-white Bush/Palin/wingnut thinking. According to this, there are Good people and Evil people, and there is no reasoning with Evil people you just have to "take them out."
I know Hannity is an idiot, but don't other "good" Christians see that this type of thinking is what got King George in trouble and ruined his legacy?
To quote from a definition on a few sites:
"The belief that a cosmic Jewish zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree."
It would seem even more bizarre if more elements of the belief system were included...virgin mother impregnated by a ghost, belief in angels and demons, symbolic blood drinking, etc. But was is shameful for an advanced society is that in the third millenium no one could still be elected president if they publically admitted they were not believers.
I agree. Americans say there is no religious test for public office yet we ask if Candidate A or Candidate B believes in a (Christian) God.
On a side note, I've seen surveys that show that atheists and agnostics are viewed more negatively than any religious group by Americans.
Where, in the bible does it say government is for evil doers? It doesn't Mr. Warren. You're lying to the congregation! And, if you, indeed want to preach politics on the pulpit then follow the Christ's words: render unto Ceasar what is his....All these politico-religions should pay taxes.
Now, let's celebrate Pat Robertson's "first billion dollars made"...tax free. Pay the tax Pat! Jesus says people like you and Jerry Warren Fallwell are "hipocrits"....That's not good.
If your mouth needs to offend people then pull your tounge out. That would be Christian. If you hand offends you and others...severe your hand.
is really only for truly stupid people.
the rest of us are smart enough to see through the BS.
I can understand the philosophical discussions behind a creator, spirituality, etc.. but "religion" is just plain stupid.
Agreed, but the pope has very snappy clothes and puts on a damn good show. That's why some of my gay friends ooh and awe.
It's sad to see another false prophet forcing his beliefs on the government. I am even a born-again Christian, but believe that not only does Warren mostly not understand the teaching of Jesus, but even if he did, they don't belong in politics for the good of both politics and religion.
In America, of course these guys see the American (cough) government as "the chosen government". What if "the chosen government" were in the Kremlin, or in Iran, or China, or... France? And then there is the simple point that it is all hogwash to begin with. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...
if you haven't seen, you really should.
it was great.
When Falwell says 'I don't care where they're from', that's a REALLY dangerous attitude. It's like terrorists killed Americans so he wants to go parading around the middle east killing anyone who is a suspect, with no regard for who they are? What the damn?
I for one am glad falwell is no longer with us.
I only wish the rest of his believers would get their asses raptured out of here so we can start to fix things.
We will all be better off if they are gone!!!
sound kinda like Bin Laden when he speaks of bombing evildoers in the name of the God (ALLAH)... also wasn't SATAN invented to "take care" of the evil doers? They are so messed up...
His "Civil Discourse" was a conservative pander-fest for McCain, and a free commercial for his ministry. Another holy-roller phony who needs to read the Constitution and keep his preaching, I mean, opinions about state to himself.
If anything, the new administration should tax them. Wanna talk politics in church? Send in this 1099, please.
That will put our national debt down pretty quickly :)
Login or Register to post comments.