Bill O'Reilly has been blaming media bias for portraying the mass murderer from Norway, Anders Breivik a Christian. David wrote a great piece yesterday on it with ample justification for the man actually being a Christian. And let's face it: It's not the first time an extreme right wing Christian zealot took matters into their own hands. Anyway, truth is fiction and facts are inconveniences for O'Reilly on this story, which is awfully strange. He continued his denials of said facts and even brought on Queen of the Village, Sally Quinn, to defend his assertions. She pretty much trounced him.
If the tragedy wasn't so terrible I would say that BIllO's claims are absurdly hysterical for their blatant disregard for the facts. After Quinn reads quotes from Anders Breivik's own writings in which he proclaims he's a Christian, Bill O's only real defense was to constantly yell that "Mussolini" was not a Christian too. Huh?
A C&L reader sent over an archived picture of Breivik's Facebook page in which he clearly labels himself as a Christian and a Conservative. Some on the right will never admit the truth on this subject and it looks like Bill O'Reilly is championing their cause.
Salon's Alex Parene has even more details:
Breivik chose to be baptized at age 15. He self-identified as "Christian" on his Facebook page. He thought "Christianity should recombine under the banner of a reconstituted and traditionalist Catholic Church" or, later, under a new (traditionalist) European Church.
Breivik is not an American-style evangelical Christian. He is not a "fundamentalist" in that sense. Though he does identify with American cultural Christian conservatives. And he considers himself to be fighting in the name of "our Christian cultural heritage." He supports a reconstituted Knights Templar devoted to winning a war against Islam in the name of Christianity.
All of this says "Christian terrorist." His goals -- the restoration of a pure Christian world in its "traditional" home -- were analogous to the stated of goals of al-Qaida.
Does he go to church? Does he believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ? Is he a biblical literalist? I have no idea. There's plenty about him that would lead a devout Christian to consider Breivik "not a 'real' Christian." Here's the thing about that: The same is true of all self-proclaimed Muslims who commit acts of terrorism.
Terry Krepel at Media Matters has more.
He really is hysterical now. Now everyone can see the crazy right wing TV extremist break down on their television sets, including the FOX LIES channel ditto heads. Hahahahahahahahahhhhhh!
Everyone knows you can't fool all of the people all of the time. But now, i think 0'LIElie can't even fool some of the people, even some of the time any more. You had a nice run, TV extremist. Hahahahahahhhh!
Say hi to Scott Roeder when you go to hell.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steve-young/sco...
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
It's impossible for a Christian to do anything wrong, because if they do anything wrong then they're not a Christian. Nice racket! Christianity is perfect. The pope, apparently, is not a Christian either since he had a hand in all those messy abuse cover-ups - most unchristian.
There's always a "no true Scotsman" argument whenever someone who self-describes as a Christian does things like Breivik.
Of course the media will report that he's a Christian... any media besides Faux that is... as that is how he described himself. It's a little matter of reporting news, not splitting theological hairs.
In the marketplace of ideas, too many people shop in the bargain basement.
-- Thunder BlueRose
Why, yes, I am a card-carrying member of the ACLU
http://saxman.bravepages.com
From Shooter's Manifesto, page 1397:
Pretty odd support for Catholicism from someone who isn't really a true Christian, eh BillO? He even went so far as to use a capital 'C' in Church -- which is what most Catholics do when referencing it.
It's my understanding of Christian Theology that we're all Sinners. So pointing to someone's sin as evidence of why they're not
a True Scotsmantruly Christian is rather self-serving, at best. Or does Bill really want to argue that the only real Christian was Jesus?The last time I looked, the Bible was still being printed with both the Old and New Testaments. Which tells me that Christians still pay some manner of respect to the Old Testament -- a book where we find a Supreme God Who tells His followers to wipe out entire villages. Wipe them out completely, including women, children, and even livestock.
I also remember Jesus saying something about putting away the sword. Using Bill's definition of 'Christian' and condemnation of Islam, shouldn't I conclude that anyone who meets violence with violence is non-Christian also?
Yet Bill loves him some violence... Wouldn't have to do with his addiction to alcohol, would it? I've seen quite a few alcoholics that act like Bill in my life.
Sometimes I wonder what having only half a liver might do to one's psyche....
Jesus said he came to bring, not peace, but a sword. Whether this was to be aimed at the Romans or at us heathens, pagans, and/or atheists never was specified.
I'm a small-p pagan. I believe that there is a god, that his name is Murphy, that his laws are all-powerful, and that the Jews do not pronounce the name of God because they do not want anyone to know he's Irish. I believe in peace on earth, which puts me near the top of Murphy's, and Christians', shit lists.
Jerk Bleivik says he's a Christian and a conservative. Christians and conservatives claim he is not. Jerk has told the truth about his other political beliefs, however disgusting, so the conclusion to be reached, and publicly exhorted, is that the Christians and conservatives are bearers of false witness, i.e. obviously liars en masse and individually.
He's a FUCKING christian Bill.
FFS!
Bite my shiny metal ass.
http://www.startalkradio.net/
He reproduced?! Aw, crap.
Juan Williams, who was just on The Daily Show, reminded me of this bit of hypocrisy:
The famous kerfuffle when Bill-O was on The View, and Whoopie & Joy walked out on Bill-O for saying "Muslims"... in the general sense... "attacked us on 9/11".
Bill is now trying to argue that the Oslo killer "isn't a Christian" despite whatever he may claim, because his actions were "unchristian".
So when a few Muslim Extremists attack us on 9/11, ALL Muslims are guilty. But when a self-proclaimed "Christian" goes on a rampage, "he's no Christian". Got that?
* There are two types of Republicans: millionaires and suckers.
"Mugsy's Rap Sheet": Recording history for those who seek to rewrite it.
why won't those viking bastards help FOX and friends spin Breivik into some sort of leftist loon, like the good media/government establishment does in the most pious country in the world, ours?
Seriously these nordics better get on with the program or they are going to spill the "brown skin bad/white skin good" narrative that took so much effort to get going in the farm...
CTHULHU 2012 "Why vote for a lesser evil?"
Vikings are fucking awesome.
*insert* viking metal.
Bite my shiny metal ass.
http://www.startalkradio.net/
Wait...we're talking about the president right?
:D
These morons are well practiced at this farce.
is like hearing an argument debating the existence of unicorns versus leprechauns.
By the way, when is Fox going to get outed for the striking similarity between Breivik's views and those of Glenn Beck? Specifically, I recall (from C&L) Beck's theory about the evil Egyptian uprisings as a conspiracy between lefty Marxists and Islamists? Where does Beck stand today on the revolution in Egypt?
Come to think of it, O'Reilly's derogatory references to "secular humanists" trillions of times on his show is eerily reminicent of Breivik's views. I think Bill has a lot at stake personally to attempt to distance himself and his network from the fruits of their labors.
Bingo!
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
Me thinks this Culture Warrior doth protest too much.
Does this exchange remind anyone else of the "Dead Parrot Sketch" from Monty Python?
In the marketplace of ideas, too many people shop in the bargain basement.
-- Thunder BlueRose
Why, yes, I am a card-carrying member of the ACLU
http://saxman.bravepages.com
You mean the sketch where the parrot was like dead. Meh, not sure.
Bite my shiny metal ass.
http://www.startalkradio.net/
No, the one where the parrot was pushing up daisies...
*grin*
In the marketplace of ideas, too many people shop in the bargain basement.
-- Thunder BlueRose
Why, yes, I am a card-carrying member of the ACLU
http://saxman.bravepages.com
So not the one a customer got back to a shop that sold him a dead parrot?
Oh, ok. :)
Bite my shiny metal ass.
http://www.startalkradio.net/
;-[)
In the marketplace of ideas, too many people shop in the bargain basement.
-- Thunder BlueRose
Why, yes, I am a card-carrying member of the ACLU
http://saxman.bravepages.com
He's not dead, he's pining for the fjords! ;)
Good analogy.
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
Excellent.
This parrot has ceased to exist.
would have had the link to that clip posted in the blink of a parrot's eye!
"Egotism is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of Stupidity" - Frank Leahy
Double standard within the very next breath, he's laughable at face value.
Goodnight, Frau Blücher
Anybody can call themselves a Christian, or a Jew, or Hindu, or even a Muslim. If somebody needs to be baptised to be a Christian. What do you call a Christian pastor, or minister who was never baptised?
“I have had a messianic illusion since childhood ” -George Soros
Except to counter the lies of Bill O'Reilly does anyone really care what he thinks? He is making a fool of himself by saying something that isn't true. Something that has already proven to be true by other news outlets and by the perp himself. This goes to what I have been saying. FOX news is becoming more and more irrelevant because they turn off large numbers of viewers who think.
If the lying tards at Faux say the sky is green or Obama is X, they believe it.
So called Christians in this country are some of the most vile, ignorant, racist, homophobic , gun totin, shitheels in the entire world. When you pick up whale shit on the bottom of the ocean they are what you find. The sickest of the sick, the stupidest of the stupid. So what's your point BillO the Clown?
If you do not adhere to the tenets of your faith, then your claim to belong to that faith is false. This applies to every christian in America who supports the death penalty, cutting services to the poor, going to war, torture, etc...
Tell that to the Muslims. Do you understand where this is coming from? I have a two finger salute at the ready.
Bite my shiny metal ass.
http://www.startalkradio.net/
From what I'm reading, Breivik does seem to be an advocate for a return to what is sometimes referred to as the "Christendom" of the Middle Ages, which would be theologically incompatible with "born-again" Christianity (not that it stops some from born-again denominations from advocating similar viewpoints anyway).
This particular viewpoint doesn't need a whole lot more condemnation at this point, as "Christendom" was responsible for a whole host of evils, such as the Inquisition and an awful lot of death during the Reformation period.
Jesus Christ Bill what does this guy have to do to prove he's Christian? Bone 10,000 choir boys, suck off a million strangers in an airport toilet? He's full of hate. Crikey what do you want already? Guns , God, gonads, are you fucking blind?
...I stopped watching Fox News several years ago, their inability to deal with facts in an adult manner. What we see here is Bill O'Reilly sticking his fingers in his ears and yelling, "Nanny-nanny boo-boo I can not hear you!" Sean Hannity used to do the same thing to Alan Comes (sp?) on an almost nightly basis until I finally came to the conclusion that watching this "news" channel was nothing but a complete waste of my time. The only time I tune in any more is after a major speech like The State Of The Union and that's only for a very brief look-see so I can laugh at their chidish derision or to see them all standing on their chairs and cheering, depending of course on who just gave the speech.
This is why FOX news will ultimately go into the dustbin of history. If they are not getting enough new viewers, are turning off those who watch, and the loyal viewers are dying off, then how does it sustains itself. Answer: it can't. All it takes is patience and endurance.
.
as every newspaper he ever took over declines and eventually withers into oblivion, so is the fate of Faux Spews.
so he is in denial- he thinks his Christ cult is above critisism. The irony is most right wing Republicans are Protestant, and despise Billo's Catholic cult. Everywhere you look, Christianity preaches hate
Some are self xtian labeled merely because its the in thing, certain types of domianist xtains are OT and so far removed from the NT message its laughable. To them Jesus was god not the son of god (simplified theology for the dumbest members of their flock).
Their brand is all about world domination and exclusion of everything to money, power, and conquest.
the other night, here's Rex Murphy's opinion:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFtJHJaUSs8
Max Pointy
me-oww!
;)
like Hitler, like George Bush, like nearly all of your guests, this guy believes in all that tosh in the bible. Deal with it or be apoplectic over it. I prefer you do the latter.
me-oww!
I'm not so sure there is any such thing..but that is just a personal belief.
And I wouldn't go looking to O'Reilly for any evidence of its existence.....
TDS had a nice run at this tonight.
and his lovely xtian message of love he gave one morning about tasering and beating people (Code Pink protesting grannies) to a pulp.
PS; Kilmeade gained the nickname 'two fingers' due to his on air comments about vaseline and some guy on a video losing his trousers, his (morning TV family values) comment that moment made the other Faux people gape open mouth in disbelief. Kilmeade is the guy faux sends out to hang around kids for their show...
Let me play devils advocate for a second. O'Reilly is coming from the perspective that if this guy is really a Christian, he wouldn't have done this because it's not a Christian act.
Is the feeling of the people of this blog that Christians are murderers? And if that's the case, why does this blog take every opportunity to denounce republicans when they say that Islam is not a religion of peace?
Speaking solely for myself, no. I've not said Christians are murderers,... simply that this murderer described himself as a Christian, and who has the authority to say he was not?
This murderer described himself and his philosophy straight down the line of that rigid political and religious perversion that we've heard all too often from the talking heads on "conservative" radio and television, right-wing preachers of megachurches and even members of our own government.
I agree that what Brievik practiced or claimed was a perversion of Christianity after the same manner of Islamic terrorists.
I call BS on Bill O'Reilly's double standards. Again, the media calls him a Christian because that is what he claimed for himself in his online rants and manic scribblings. The media is supposed to report facts as they are, not a theological treatise on any faith.
Proper answer?
In the marketplace of ideas, too many people shop in the bargain basement.
-- Thunder BlueRose
Why, yes, I am a card-carrying member of the ACLU
http://saxman.bravepages.com
Lets not forget that right wing TV extemists always say that "most Muslims are not terrorists, but most terrorists are Muslims" - well -
by O'LIElie's logic those terrorists are in fact not Muslims at all because 'it is not a Muslim act'. By right wing TV extremist logic we could also conclude that "most Christians are not terrorists, but most white terrorists are Christians" couldn't we? But we all know that right wing TV extremist logic is horribly flawed, and it is counter productive to point fingers and spout off.
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
Well, who is this deity?
That deity is a well-documented genocidal maniac. That deity chose to annihilate every single living creature (human, animal and plant) except for a few samples, during a flood. That deity could have solved its issue differently. But no. It choose to ANNIHILATE everything carrying DNA.
That deity ordered, either directly, or indirectly the genocides of dozens of villages as documented in the OT. In addition, there are very strict rules to live by, which, if not followed precisely, lead to death. To wit, working on the Sabbath. Eating shellfish. Talking back to your parents. You know, small infractions such as that. Do this. COUNT. Use the Bible and simply count the deaths attributed to this deity. You will count in excess of TWO MILLION.
Then, there's the little issue of his 'only begotten son', sent into corporeal existence for the specific and sole reason to be brutally murdered.
So, YOU tell me. Are Christians murderers? Not all of them are. But their primary deity is an all powerful MURDERER EXTRAORDINAIRE. Their fear of this deity is the reason they're Christians, according to their very own words. They constantly tell us that we must have the 'fear of God' in us or we won't understand their intent.
My personal opinion is that anyone who believes one word of that tripe needs to be on meds.
is a form of insantiy. Clinical.
Peter Everts
Bill is using the well known-fallacy "No True Scotsman". (Which has already been covered in this discussion). And to top it off, he uses "No True Scotsman" in a hypocritical manner.
You would be asking me to defend a position that you have assigned to me with an unfounded assumption and a generalization.
For fallacies like this to work, they need to be more subtle.
citizens of America say they believe in God and declare America as a Christian Nation....
but also supported the invasion of Iraq?
If O'Reilly spoke that all these people were NOT Christians...then he would have a good point now.
As for Christians "being murderers"....it is a huge body count throughout history that goes to all ways and religions, some more than others. One thing for certain, religion has repressed and destroyed more souls than it has ever saved.
I think you'll find that more Christians who have been killed for religious reasons were killed by other Christians than by non-Christians.
as much as when wingers deny that Barack is one.
See, they define "Christian" so we don't have to.
Billo,
Read your Bible numbnuts. Your religion has been responsible for more death and destruction and inhumanity than just about anything else. You are an historical ignoramus. Killer popes anyone?
Peter Everts
where it stops nobody knows....
Muslim murderers are Muslim...Christian murderers are not Christian?
When I snap...I'm NOT a fucking christian. Don't try to paint me as one or else me and the imaginary guy who doesn't exist (never did, never will) are gonna come back to set you straight.
Humpty Dumpty was pushed.
You mean, that Murdoch owner paper? The same man who is the boss of both these individuals??
But not only does his writings mark him as a Christian but also mark him as a Catholic. You and I, raised as Catholics, know that. Just accept it.
I agree that Breivik is NOT a Christian. That doesn't mean HE doesn't think he is or that he doesn't self-identify as a Christian, but he is NOT a true Christian. Nor are the members of the Westboro Baptist Church. Anyone can claim to be a Christian, but that doesn't make it so in God's eyes. But, there is a definite danger of people claiming to be Christians deciding to take God's authority into their own hands, despite His explicit commands not to. Unfortunately, their actions are then taken to represent all Christians when that isn't so. And, FYI, I am not a Bible-toting/thumping evangelical, either. I've just studied the Bible enough to know that these people do NOT represent Its words.
'socialists' because that's what they called themselves, and acting as if the philosophy of socialism includes genocide and world domination, I think the left could be persuaded to cut some slack. But really, the guy has embraced all sorts of self-described Christians who were war mongering mass murderers like GWB, why shouldn't this be pounded home? If he had an anuerysm over this, I would not be sad.
What makes a guy [who cheats to get the WH 2 times, and launches 2 unprovoked wars and occupations, ruining those countries and their cultures, squealing with glee at Shock and Awe, killed untold hundreds of thousand of civilians], more of a Christian than a guy who does the wet work himself, killing around 80?
It's too bad Billo can't see the diff. And for Billo's info, he himself isn't a Christian either.
me-oww!
If one is to reduce what it means to be a Christian, that still is an interpretation... at what point does it be more than the Hindu advaita "neti, neti", which is "not this, not this" to describe all the things the Absolute is not?
In the marketplace of ideas, too many people shop in the bargain basement.
-- Thunder BlueRose
Why, yes, I am a card-carrying member of the ACLU
http://saxman.bravepages.com
Anders is without doubt Christian. If you do not think the Christian terrorists are growing in number and brazenness you have not been paying attention. What do you think all of the abortion doctor killings were about?
"Respect for the rights of others is peace." --Benito Juarez
was a Christian?
"Bill, were the Crusaders Christian?"
"NO!"
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