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In the wake of Thursday's suicide plane crash into the Austin office of the Internal Revenue Service, the debate is raging over the meaning of Joseph Stack's attack. While Glenn Greenwald and Matthew Yglesias ponder whether the incident constitutes an act of terrorism, bloggers on the left and right each try to assign Stack's political paternity to the other.

What is beyond dispute, as the Christian Science Monitor documented, is that Thursday's destruction in Austin is just "one incident in a string of violent threats and assaults directed toward the agency in recent years." And predictably, as ABC reported Friday, right-wing extremist organizations, white supremacists and militia groups were quick to hail Joe Stack as a "hero."

Meanwhile, conservative stalwarts like Human Events editor Jed Babbin and Senator Scott Brown seemingly rationalized the carnage in Austin by announcing "people are frustrated" and "no one likes paying taxes." But as it turns out, violence targeting the IRS and incendiary rhetoric justifying the intimidation of the agency and its personnel are hardly recent developments:

The Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration (TIGTA), which oversees the IRS, handles an average of 918 threats made against IRS employees every year, according to the agency. Between 2001 and 2008, court cases resulting from those threats have resulted in 195 convictions, according to TIGTA.

“This is not something new,” says J. Russell George, director of TIGTA. “The use of the airplane was unanticipated, but this is not something new, not at all.”

And, in some extreme right-wing circles, a very welcome turn. As ABC detailed:

[F]or an alarmingly growing number of Americans Stack is a hero. The Web was studded with praise for Stack almost immediately after his plane slammed into the Austin office complex Thursday morning. The admiring salutes appearing on sites ranging from Facebook to the pages of extremist groups reflect what experts say is an "explosive growth" in the anti-government patriot movement…

Bob Schulz, founder of the anti-government We the People Foundation, said that while he only advocates non-violent means of protest, he can understand Stack's motives and said it is a reflection of a movement unlike any he's ever seen.

"There's a huge patriot movement," Schulz said. "I've been doing this kind of work for 30 years. Never have I seen the likes of what's going on now. It's delightful."

But what is delightful to Bob Schulz or the members of Stormfront is frightening to most Americans.

To be sure, the language directed at the IRS was threatening.

"Gestapo-like tactics."

"The IRS is out of control!"

"Which would you prefer: having your wallet or purse stolen or being audited by the IRS?"

"You don't need to send in armed personnel in flak jackets."

"Well Mr. Big Brother IRS Man, let's try something different, take my pound of flesh and sleep well."

But even more disturbing is that only the last of those five statements came from Thursday's alleged Austin pilot, Joseph Stack. The rest came from some of the leading voices of the Republican Party during its late 1990's crusade against the IRS.

As David Cay Johnston describes in his book Perfectly Legal, the GOP during the Clinton administration waged an all-out war on the IRS, turning the priorities for auditing Americans upside-down. As Delaware Republican Senator William Roth's Finance Committee held hearings in 1997 and 1998, Mississippi's Trent Lott decried the IRS' "Gestapo-like tactics." Frank Murkowski (R-AK) similarly denounced those supposed "Gestapo-like tactics" while excoriating the Agency, "You don't need to send in armed personnel in flak jackets." Don Nickles of Oklahoma raged, "The IRS is out of control!" Meanwhile, GOP pollster and wordmeister Frank Luntz quizzed focus groups with his favorite question, "Which would you prefer: having your wallet or purse stolen or being audited by the IRS?"

Even as IRS Director Charles Rossotti warned Congress about an epidemic of tax cheating which had reached $195 billion a year, Senator Phil Gramm in May 1998 denounced the agency. Peddling myths of jack-booted IRS agents tormenting American taxpayers, Gramm called on Rossotti to fire his 50 worst employees. Gramm concluded:

"I have no confidence in the Internal Revenue Service of this country. You do not have a good system. This agency has too much unchecked power."

No surprise, Congress went on to pass and President Bill Clinton to sign the IRS Reform and Restructuring Act in 1998. And as Johnston documented, "In 1999, for the first time, the poor were more likely than the rich to have their tax returns audited."

Sadly, the picture of an unaccountable praetorian guard at the IRS painted by Republicans simply wasn't true.

In 2000, as David Cay Johnston again reported in the New York Times:

Two years ago, Congress, warned in hearings that the Internal Revenue Service was bullying many innocent Americans, passed a law requiring that the agency fire workers who harassed taxpayers.

But not one of the first 830 complaints of taxpayer harassment filed under the new law has been upheld by the I.R.S. or its new Congressionally designated watchdog, according to new data.

Investigations by the I.R.S. and the watchdog, the Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration, found evidence that some of the complaints were bogus -- made in an effort to derail audits and tax collections. Others were either without merit or involved misconduct that fell far short of the Congressional definition of harassment.

Former FBI director and Judge William Webster, who headed up an investigation ordered by Roth's Senate Committee, concluded "No evidence was found of systematic abuses by agents." When a GAO inquiry similarly revealed "no corroborating evidence that the criminal investigations described at the hearing were retaliatory against the specific taxpayer," Senator Roth tried to prevent its report from becoming public.

But the damage was already done. Not only was the IRS's ability to pursue tax fraud gutted, but the incendiary rhetoric about the agency Republicans introduced was quickly propagated among tax protestors nationwide. And as the Bush Justice Department documented, that included anti-tax terrorists:

On April 4, 2003, the FBI arrested David Roland Hinkson, a constitutionalist and tax protestor, for attempting to arrange the murders of a federal judge, an Assistant U.S. Attorney, and an IRS Agent whom he blamed for his legal problems regarding a tax evasion case against him. Between December 2002 and March 2003, Hinkson offered two individuals $10,000 for committing all three murders. On January 27, 2005, Hinkson was found guilty on three counts of solicitation to commit murder after a three week jury trial in Boise, Idaho. On June 3, 2005, Hinkson was sentenced to 43 years in federal prison.

As it turned out, Hinkson owed over a million dollars in taxes on his dietary supplement business, Water Oz. Echoing the sentiment Stack expressed online today, Hinkson described the IRS raid he endured in 2002:

"I believe that...[government officials] orchestrated the raid on Water Oz and my home for the sole purpose of murdering me and ending the lawsuit that was filed against them by me."

As the Monitor noted, these kinds of episodes have been underway for years, even before the most recent expansion of enforcement efforts by the IRS beginning in 2008:

Last March, a Florida man was sentenced to 30 years in prison after hiring a hit man to kill an IRS worker who was auditing his tax return, and to burn down IRS offices in Lakeland, Fla. The hit man turned out to be an undercover FBI agent who helped arrest Randy Nowak.

In 2008, Earnest Milton Barnett was sentenced to 20 years in prison after ramming his Jeep Cherokee into the IRS’s Birmingham, Ala., offices.

In 1997, two men set fire to IRS offices in Colorado Springs, destroying the building and taxpayer files. In 2003, the men – Jack Dowell of Pensacola, Fla., and James Floyd Cleaver of Colorado Springs – were sentenced to at least 30 years in federal prison and ordered to pay $2.2 million in fines.

Following Joseph Stack's deadly assault in Texas, Mark Potok, director of the Intelligence Project for the Southern Poverty Law Center, "We've had a right wing tax protest movement going back several decades now," adding, "They were very hot in the 1990s, but they are very much still out there." And regardless of Stack's potential motivations, politics or psychoses, that right-wing threat remains very real. As Treasury Inspector General George put it, "We’ll have to try to stay one step of ahead of these people in the future."

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Alice X - Chomsky Nader's picture

Another view here

And David Cay Johnston here


statusquObama, change you can only pretend in

Thanks Alice. Such important details behind the story, and brought to light because of it, will never be addressed because of the sensationalism attached to the event.

JasonShankel's picture

This guy tried to pretend he was a church to avoid paying taxes and he got caught.

I'm a software engineer and I've variously been self-employed and worked for companies. I've never had a problem filling out a form 1040 SE.

If he was working as a software consultant in CA in the 90s, he has no reason to complain. Money was falling out of the sky and there were plenty of companies to work for and plenty of work for private contractors. I was there.

This guy is a narcissistic tax-denying crybaby.

If he was so concerned for the poor, downtrodden taxpayer, he might have considered not killing any of them. He might have considered not setting his house on fire and burdening his taxpaying neighbors with the smoldering husk he left behind. He might have considered not putting taxpayer funded emergency responders in danger.

If he was such a patriot, he might have considered not attacking his own country.

He's not a hero. He's not a victim. He's a murderer.

I feel bad for the people who died in the building, the odds of them having anything to do with Joseph Stack's problems is remote. Yet we can expect more of this, when you push people to their limits (everyone has different limits), people will fight back and even snap. Anyone who works for companies like the IRS, FED, financial companies, or branches of government should be mindful of their safety.

American apathy is coming to an end this economic crisis as it gets worse will unhinge more people. Honest hard working Americans who played by the rules are beyond furious over the fact not a single arrest has been made over those who made the crisis happen. They are tired of having to flip the bill imposed by corporate lobbyist LUVn law makers who are not listening to the people. If you don’t give the people a voice through the proper channels then they will find them through others.


Goodnight, Frau Blücher

JasonShankel's picture

He committed tax fraud by claiming to be a church.

This has nothing to do with the financial crisis or anything else.

Joe the Murderer had enough money for a plane and a house. He had an engineering degree. He worked in software in CA in the 90s.

The fact that he was able to parrot out some sympathetic legitimate problems in his narcissistic meltdown comes as no surprise. Narcissists are good at that sort of thing.

But he wasn't being treated unfairly. He was a tax evading deadbeat.

And now he's a murderer. And that's all.

VegasRage's picture

anyone who is willing to do a Kamikaze into a building was pushed to "THEIR" limits. I'm not saying the guy was right, honest, or as needy as many others. But to suggest this guy wasn't at his ropes end is laughable.


Goodnight, Frau Blücher

Timmy the Music Snob's picture

of people in this country that see injustices in life and in our government's preferences for corporations over it's constituents / everyday Americans.

But you gotta keep your composure and fight for what is right in a civilized manner.

Acts like this are not going to make anything change unless everyone starts doing it and I just don't see everyone lashing out violently (and that's a good thing).

Somehow we have to unite and put OVERWHELMING numbers of citizens on the streets of Washington. and demand that we are heard.

Have a 10 million man march on Washington every first Saturday of the month until we get health care reform.

Then work on removing corporate money from elections.

We have to unite and we have to physically show up on doorsteps.

Teabaggers are laughed at because they are not very bright.

Put 2 million intelligent Americans on the mall every first Saturday of the month and they'll take notice and act accordingly.

And the 19? I suppose they were pushed to their limits by the evils of American culture? I suppose we all ought to have a dialogue about what we could have done to treat them more fairly?

Joe The Terrorist tried to claim he was a church to avoid paying taxes. The IRS told him he couldn't do that. That was the extent of his victimization.

virtue's picture
JS

Would the "19" be an issue if the "U.S. government" didn't exist?

Yeah, good solution. Let's not have a government because 19 murdering terrorists might not like it.

Unbelievable.

Timmy the Music Snob's picture

that our government wouldn't meddle in other country's affairs.

But we still need government.

VegasRage's picture

My original point is we're going to see more of this as the economy gets tighter. Joseph Stack may very well be as you say a man who tried to evade his taxes by claiming to be a church". Regardless the pressure was enough for him to snap.

There is another story out right now about a man who snapped bulldozed his house to prevent the bank from seizing it.
http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/us/2010/02/1...

People are tired of the BS, those you see who seem supportive of people like Joseph Stack probably don't know the details but they can identify with lashing back at the government.


Goodnight, Frau Blücher

The Sailor's picture

.

MountainMan23's picture

.. thanks for the links .. now I understand the issue ..


When will government of the people, by the politicians, for the corporations perish from this Earth?

Not soon enough!

JasonShankel's picture

There's no money in computer programming because of the evil tax code?

Come on. That's a smokescreen.

Joe The Murderer's problem wasn't some section about the treatment of contractors. Joe The Murderer's problem was that he tried to pretend he was a church for tax purposes and the IRS rightly was having none of it.

There's no legitimate issue here. At all.

There are people in this world with real problems. People who don't have a house and a plane and still manage to pay their taxes.

Mutton Jeff's picture

This tax code, which applies only to consulting technical engineers (not other consultants like accountants, lawyers, etc) changed the business completely. Large firms no longer hire independent contractors working from home -- they only hired contractors through consulting firms, who then hired the actual engineers and paid them about 30% of what they would have made otherwise.

Like it or not, this guy had a legitimate beef. He went nuts trying to fight for what he thought was right, and took some wrong turns along the way. But Sec 1706 is bad law, has ruined a lot of peoples lives and should have been repealed years ago.

JasonShankel's picture

You're saying this as though I am not a computer programmer.

I've been a consultant. I've been hired by large firms. I've worked for companies, big and small. We hired consulting contractors all the time.

Especially in the 90s, when he claims to have been working in CA, there was plenty of work for independent contractors. I made quite a good living at that time both as an employee and a contractor.

And I never had a problem paying my taxes.

I mean really, "boo hoo, there's not enough money in being a computer programmer? I can barely afford my house and planes?"

Seriously? Now, maybe, the economy is a tad rough, but only by comparison to the past when cash was falling out of the sky.

He didn't do this because of sec 1706. He did this because he filed his taxes as a church and the IRS called bullshit on that.

There are a lot of people out there whose lives have REALLY been ruined by bad law. Computer programmers as a group aren't among them.

Handypants's picture

The hardcore anti-government types need to organize for anarchy.

:)


"I know that there are people who do not love their fellow
man, and I hate people like that!
" ~ Tom Lehrer (1928 - )

Good one Handypants. I catch your drift. But be warned some of the new commenters that have shown up here since the Austin attack won't get it.

virtue's picture

Could the "IRS" exist without initiating the threat of violence?

JasonShankel's picture

Could the government enforce any laws without the threat of violence?

MountainMan23's picture
.

The government exists because and only because it claims a monopoly on violence.


When will government of the people, by the politicians, for the corporations perish from this Earth?

Not soon enough!

JasonShankel's picture

...we give it a monopoly on violence. Not too interested in "free market" violence.

But in this case, the only violence was committed by Joe the Crybaby.

HE burned his house down. HE murdered his fellow Americans. HE attacked his own country.

HE wasted taxpayer dollars on response to his disaster.

He is no victim. He's a murderer.

Rich H's picture

.

Bokonon's picture

would rather call him a Marxist.

The Christian Science Monitor.

What word seems out of place?


Study the symptoms not the virus...

chrislib's picture

They're not new, but they are getting more popular than ever with patriots who love America so much, they want to secede from it. And resluglicons and the entire vast, right-wing conspiracy (which can be traced back at least to Teddy Roosevelt) are encouraging them.
The teagaggers are the dumbest people in the solar system. All their reasons for burning the country down are simply lies. They don't care about facts, they only care that President Obama is black. Period.

darrelplant's picture

I've been audited. My wife's been mugged. She got kicked in the head, had to replace all her ID, etc. I got to sit in a cubicle and talk to a lady about my business receipts for a few hours, as I listened over the wall to a guy who seemed to be trying to explain how his mistresses' apartment was a valid write-off.

I'll take the audit any time.

Wesley E. Ledjennes's picture

I know a few people who have gone thru really painful audits. EVERY TIME the pain came from THEIR OWN EFFORTS to lie, cheat, and steal from the IRS with idiotic or even completely larcenous claims.

Terrible's picture

Audits are no big deal if you're legit and have your shit together.

JasonShankel's picture

I've dealt with the IRS a few times and I find them generally courteous and helpful.

My sense is that they don't start really screwing you over until you get beligerent and start lecturing them on the constitution.

I'll definitely take an audit before being mugged. An audit isn't violence. It's paperwork.

Wanna come out on the winning side of an audit? Don't claim you're a church and don't try to claim that income taxes are voluntary.

That usually helps.

Joe the Deadbeat is a murderer and a traitor and nothing else. He attacked his own country. He killed and injured his own countrymen in the performance of their duly assigned duties.

Everything else is just a smokescreen. There are real people in this country with real problems.

virtue's picture

An IRS "audit" is backed by the threat of violence.

Threat of violence? I bet to you being asked to pay taxes you may be found to owe or going to prison is violence. It showss the fall out of our country's education system, that you do not comprehend simple english. i guess you will also turn around and claim that waterboarding is not torture and that they attack because they are jealous of our freedoms/

contribute to the upkeep of this nation, yet wants to stay here and let others pay his/her share of the nation's upkeep instead.

God forbid anyone ask these tax deniers to do their part for this country.


"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui

virtue's picture

prove that a "nation" exists anywhere other than your mind.

not exist in *your* mind. I suppose day is night, and up is down too.


"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui

virtue's picture

no proof?

talking to you. If you feel it necesary for someone to produce proof that the United States exists, you're evidently beyond help.


"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui

five minutes ago complete with dinosaur fossils and memories of the past and posts on the Internet that are dated months and years ago.

Come on. Prove it!!!

Even so, I like a society with laws and people who are willing to chip in and pay for police and fire protection, roads and schools.

Even if five minutes ago, God forgot to draw lines between the countries of the Earth.

We are not "The Nation of the United States of America".

It's like we have to contend with a hyper-dominant super-ego that is completely irrational. The ego and the id do not exist anymore - except for those rigging the system. They get to justify their actions with words like peace and security. Truly it is: sublimation and repression.

Who do you think built the computer network you're using right now?

To quote the Dane, "it ain't elves."

virtue's picture

People don't "owe" "taxes" and "taxes" would never be paid if their was no threat of violence.
One of the many problems of the "education system" is that it does not teach logic.

darrelplant's picture

Not to you, at least.

No, it's backed by the threat of legal action. You have to pay taxes. It's the law. Sorry. It is. Enforcing the law is not the same thing as flying a plane into a goddamned building and killing innocent people. That's just crap.

He tried to claim he was a church. The IRS called bullshit and ordered him to pay back taxes.

Comparing that to the murder and terrorism that he committed is obscene.

virtue's picture

motion, gravity, thermal dynamics, etc. do not have to be enforced. Anything else that you claim to be a "law" is a lie.

darrelplant's picture
Law

You seem not to comprehend what the word "law" means.

I think we're dealing with someone who's a taco short of a combination platter.


"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui

Milquetoast's picture

audit-prosecute-incarcerate

isn't even sure what the defintion of the word "law" is?


"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui

virtue's picture

Enlighten me.

Milquetoast's picture
(O)

audit-prosecute-incarcerate

Annaleigh's picture
.

law - 16 dictionary results
–noun
1.the principles and regulations established in a community by some authority and applicable to its people, whether in the formof legislation or of custom and policies recognized and enforced by judicial decision.
2.any written or positive rule or collection of rules prescribed under the authority of the state or nation, as by the peoplein its constitution.Compare bylaw, statute law.

3.the controlling influence of such rules; the condition of society brought about by their observance: maintaining law and order.
4.a system or collection of such rules.
5.the department of knowledge concerned with these rules; jurisprudence: to study law.
6.the body of such rules concerned with a particular subject or derived from a particular source: commercial law.
7.an act of the supreme legislative body of a state or nation, as distinguished from the constitution.
8.the principles applied in the courts of common law, as distinguished from equity.
9.the profession that deals with law and legal procedure: to practice law.
10.legal action; litigation: to go to law.


"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui

virtue's picture

There is no proof of physical existence of these "laws" that are in your dictionary.

simplest facts of the English language and world history, I am afraid you are a waste of time although a very strange and unique specimen indeed.


"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui

Truth_Critic's picture

To save both of us some time... do you believe in God's laws by any chance?


Study the symptoms not the virus...

virtue's picture
No

Gods don't exist.

Truth_Critic's picture

I said God.


Study the symptoms not the virus...

wouldn't take whatever answer you get too seriously.


"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui

No gods exist.

Truth_Critic's picture

that :)


Study the symptoms not the virus...

Bokonon's picture

Not that anybody can prove he does.

Bokonon's picture

.

geography, and history to boot!


"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui

Bokonon's picture

and exist only in our imaginations.

Terrible's picture

. Or is that redundant?

darrelplant's picture

An audit is backed first by fines and criminal proceedings. If you're extremist enough to consider those "violence", then yeah, I suppose it is, but a mugging is usually accompanied by actual physical violence.

njlib's picture

violence is threatened by the tax evader and the feds have more guns in the end

njlib's picture

100% with you. As a past and present staffing agency W2 employee I will clear up a few things.

I made the jump to a staffing agency position because the pay was much better than in the employee world for me at the time and I took the position knowing the new pay would suffice to purchase health insurance and still result in a nice increase.

My first day I found out I misunderstood the compensation and I actually had a choice of health plans, after 90 days i think, all better than I had before joining and mostly compensated, It was like a raise my first day. And they were better and cheaper than where I was coming from.

I've met and had numerous dealings with staffing based employees of all sorts. There are a fair amount of staffing related contractors of all stripes. And some very talented consulting engineers, but they have the needed talent to demand more.

If you are a truly talented consulting engineer you can find the work as such as an indy. Whether or not this guy had the talent remains to be seen. I think the industtry was sold to college students as a tax free job, just be an independant contractor. The IBM's got tired of hiring everyday talent for too much money, that plus the fact that the business had no borders in the late eighties so they lobbied for a law and got it (I should say that the law is flawed but Mr. Stack had it no worse than anyone else in that situation. So, my point is, if you're just one in a crowd you need to take the staffing route.

I think there are a lot of IT/Communications Engineering pros out there realizing that their skills aren't as unique as they thought and were probably sold a bill of goods that the big money was as an indy contractor and decided that was the only way they'd work. Combine that with the dillusion (note: not disulution) about paying taxes and you get the ultimate meltdown of a tax cheating, ordinary consulting engineer, buying airplanes instaed of paying his taxes, jealous of those he probably went to school with who can prove they are worthy of what he wanted.

Janet Jubilee's picture

The IRS just hired 2000 new auditors to handle small businesses in Atlanta. Myself and most other small business owners I have talked to are also being audited! You are not wise to allow the auditor in your place of business because they will just go on a fishing expedition-{seeing your nice office, vacation photos and talking to your customers or employees} about your daily operations and rip you off more. Find a reputable CPA to handle your audit and small business-meet at the CPA's office, not yours and don't attend. You can check the CPA status at the secretary of state office.
We need a fair tax. Large companies have left America because of the unfair tax burden-leaving the rest of us holding the bag and crippling the economy. God is judging our corrupt nation and Joe Stack's evil actions are proof of that. PRAY FOR OUR NATION-God save the republic!

JanineC's picture

We know people can be driven to the brink of insanity by overzealous people in power, but that doesn't excuse insane actions like what Stack did. But how can one honestly blame an entire unrelated group of people for the actions of one? I also don't understand what benefit you get by by spreading disinformation through innuendo. Isn't the truth more important? I don't believe in any justification for hurting innocent people and we are not at war. But I thought this country was built on individuals and individual freedom. I appreciate people speaking up and discussing differing opinions. And saying that you think taxes are too high and the IRS abuses its power should not automatically designate a person or group as being "extremist". Are we not a free country anymore? Is it now okay for government or anyone else who disagrees with a certain viewpoint to tell other people they shouldn't express themselves? Wouldn't it be better to debate the issues civilly and explain why you think their argument doesn't hold water instead of resorting to personal ad hominem attacks? Of course it is just my opinion but I don't see how all this animosity between competing ideologies helps our society progress or achieves anything but negativity.

...his own.

He had no legitimate beef with the IRS. He tried to evade taxes by pretending to be a church and then he threw a temper tantrum when he got caught.

Sell the plane. Pay your taxes.

He didn't just complain that his taxes were too high. He complained that registering as a church didn't work out the way his tax-dodging cultist friends said it would.

This isn't on the government. This is on Joe the Narcissistic Murderer.

virtue's picture

what I saw was a man who had enough of injustice. That is on the "government" and it's supporters.

JasonShankel's picture

He tried to claim he was a church to evade taxes.

So the poor victim of injustice burned down his multi-hundred-thousand-dollar house, burdening his taxpaying neighbors with the damage and putting taxpayer funded emergency responders at risk.

Then the poor victim of injustice got into his hundred thousand dollar airplane and attacked his own country, murdering at least one person and putting several more into the hospital. Now the taxpayers get to pay for the recouperation of the injured and the burial of the dead.

The poor victim of injustice destroyed federal property, burdening the taxpayer with the cost of reconstruction and contributing to the already over-amped security fears of the taxpayers.

No. Sorry. Joe the Murdering Tax Evading Deadbeat Terrorist Traitor doesn't get a victim card. Sorry. We're fresh out.

virtue's picture

read his rant. It wasn't just about the "IRS".

JasonShankel's picture

I did read his rant.

I'm familiar with narcissistic personality disorder and the tendency to grab at any excuse to rationalize self pity.

He did this because of Enron and the bank bailouts and because George Bush was a bad president and because the Catholic Church is evil?

Please.

He murdered his fellow countrymen as part of a temper tantrum. The issues he brought up in his note are legitimate. More's the pity, because now they are associated with a murderer's self-destructive narcissism.

There are people in this country with real financial problems who don't have engineering degrees, homes and planes and yet somehow manage to avoid murdering anyone over it.

My sympathies are with them. Not this clown.

Sell your plane. Pay your taxes. Contribute to reform-minded politics. Participate in the world.

Did he mention the name of even one, single political cause that he'd worked with? One, single organization besides the "you don't have to pay taxes" cult he was involved in? One single reform issue that he supported? One single platform plank that he contributed to? One single candidate who he worked to support?

Or did he just whine about wasting $40,000 and 10 years of his life on the "experiment" of not paying taxes?

virtue's picture
JS

one of the ingredients to being moral is empathy. You're lacking.

murders one person and hurts several more? Because he doesn't want to pay taxes? Fuck that.


"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui

No, my empathy is reserved for the millions of actual struggling people out there with real problems (and, yes, real beefs with the IRS) who don't own homes, who don't own planes, who don't try to claim they're a church to avoid paying taxes and who don't fly planes into buildings and commit murder because they owe less money to the IRS than it takes to fuel their private plane for six months.

That's where my empathy is.

miss_kitty's picture

even going so far as to use it as a handle are often lacking in same, and annoying to boot, trying to prove their 'virtuousness.'

Just sayin'

Yeah, like when a narcissist has a temper tantrum and then claims he's striking a blow "for the little guy."

Such a hero could have maybe donated his house and plane to charity and taken his own life in a peaceful way, he's so concerned with the little guy.

pros54's picture

Suicide bombing to protest our laws?

JanineC's picture

We know people can be driven to the brink of insanity by overzealous people in power, but that doesn't excuse insane actions like what Stack did. But how can one honestly blame an entire unrelated group of people for the actions of one? I also don't understand what benefit you get by by spreading disinformation through innuendo. Isn't the truth more important? I don't believe in any justification for hurting innocent people and we are not at war. But I thought this country was built on individuals and individual freedom. I appreciate people speaking up and discussing differing opinions. And saying that you think taxes are too high and the IRS abuses its power should not automatically designate a person or group as being "extremist". Are we not a free country anymore? Is it now okay for government or anyone else who disagrees with a certain viewpoint to tell other people they shouldn't express themselves? Wouldn't it be better to debate the issues civilly and explain why you think their argument doesn't hold water instead of resorting to personal ad hominem attacks? Of course it is just my opinion but I don't see how all this animosity between competing ideologies helps our society progress or achieves anything but negativity.

Phoenix Justice's picture

Mr. Stack was a homegrown nut who turned himself into a domestic terrorist, just as others before him did (such as Timothy McVeigh). It doesn't matter the reasons behind the act of terrorism.


Election 2012: Be Educated! Be Active! Vote!

www.PhoenixJustice.com

Truth_Critic's picture

... you can say that again ;)

Amended: What about this ideology :)


Study the symptoms not the virus...

Milquetoast's picture

...everyone should quit paying taxes.


audit-prosecute-incarcerate

Milquetoast's picture

I have to "go out and get" ...all my money!

Income is money that "comes in" from investments, business profits and what not...


audit-prosecute-incarcerate

virtue's picture

it's still your money and nobody else's business.

JustMyWords's picture

You immediately discontinue the use of anything in your life that is in any way funded by, or connected to something funded by, tax dollars, and then we'll talk about waving that magic wand so you don't have to pay any taxes.

Or maybe not. Because if you were intellectually honest, you'd be forced to acknowledge that you cannot get through the day without somehow benefiting from tax dollars. And if you are constantly benefiting from taxes in some way, then you have a moral obligation to pay your taxes, even if you do not agree that you have a legal obligation.

Of course, having read your earlier posts, I'm not going to expect intellectual honesty.

The Sailor's picture

As a citizen of the US we have certain civil and social obligations that we choose to obey because we live here.

You can choose not to live here, and I for one really wish you would move.

Rich H's picture

I wonder how they arrived at that number and if includes any offshore corporations or billionaires? My guess is they based that number on the backs of average americans.

Milquetoast's picture

...they have ruined countless lives, seised tens of thousands of family homes, and driven thousands to commit suicide.


audit-prosecute-incarcerate

JasonShankel's picture

But not in this case. Joe The Terrorist was a tax evader.

He tried to claim he was a church so he could not pay his taxes. He's the kind of guy the IRS SHOULD be going after and to suggest that he's victim of anything but his own stubbornness and stupidity is obscene.

Milquetoast's picture

...that he was a convicted tax evader.

(when did he go to court?)


audit-prosecute-incarcerate

Truth_Critic's picture

?


Study the symptoms not the virus...

It's in his note. He was never convicted. He confessed.

And now he's a murderer. Of that there is no doubt.

Milquetoast's picture

...till proven innocent.

(gotcha)


audit-prosecute-incarcerate

Truth_Critic's picture

... thanks


Study the symptoms not the virus...

himself guilty by his own admission.


"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui

He's guilty of murder, unless he wasn't flying the plane.

Truth_Critic's picture

Auto-pilot ;)


Study the symptoms not the virus...

Okay, amended: unless he is being framed.

JustMyWords's picture

You know he wasn't really a murderer. It's just a really amazing coincidence, a total accident of fate that the same day that he posted his diatribe against the IRS on the internet that his plan malfunctioned and just happened to crash into a building that housed offices of the same agency he was angry with. I mean, surely that's not too far-fetched, is it? /snark

Timjoebillybob's picture

audited 3x and found guilty on each. And how many people on here know that if you go to trial over it, you don't get a jury of your peers. You get a jury of ex-IRS agents. Because (officially) your average lay person cannot understand the tax laws. My belief is it's because they would almost never get a jury of common folk to convict.

virtue's picture
So

you think that the "IRS SHOULD" initiate threats of violence. Hmmm, is that what you do to people?

What threat of violence? They told him he has to pay his taxes and he flew a plane into a building.

What is hard to understand about this? He fell for one of those "you don't have to pay taxes if you say you're a church" cults and he got caught not paying his taxes.

The IRS didn't threaten him with violence. They didn't burn down his house. They didn't fly a plane into his property. They didn't murder anyone. He did, though.

No, all the IRS did was tell him that he has to pay income taxes like anyone else and that he's not a church.

Please.

virtue's picture
JS

The "IRS" can't exist without the threat of violence.

Alice X - Chomsky Nader's picture

The main post misses the issue, which is not at all uncommon on this site.

The principle issue should not be terrorism, though it is horrible that there was a loss of life.

The principle issue should not be Joe Stack, although he was the actor.

The principle issue should not be the IRS which is department of the Treasury only following the tax code written by the Congress.

The principle issue should be: what is Government if it is not the concerted action on behalf of the common wealth.

Our government is controlled by corporations and that should be the issue.


statusquObama, change you can only pretend in

JasonShankel's picture

..which is why we shouldn't accept the self-pitying rants of a tax denier as part of the conversation. It de-legitimizes the very real problems that he tried to use to camouflage his murderous narcissism.

You don't invoke Dan White if you want to discuss good nutrition and the evils of refined sugar.

Truth_Critic's picture

... Now which corporations?

And does apportioned taxes have any bearing.


Study the symptoms not the virus...

Alice X - Chomsky Nader's picture

Corporations, where do I start.

Apportioned taxes? One discussion is here


statusquObama, change you can only pretend in

Truth_Critic's picture

...Reason 2: Enough states approved the amendment.

"Only Rhode Island, Connecticut and Utah rejected the amendment outright. Florida, Pennsylvania and Virginia didn't act on it."

I'm not sure of Nelson W. Aldrich's concerns.

Could be because I'm all over the place? :-/
----------------------------------------------------------------
Essentially, in constructing the Federal Reserve Act with Wilson, Glass had repackaged the previous Republican administration's proposal, the economist Milton Friedman would later write, making it even more conservative.

Instead of a centralized bank under private banker control, Glass, of course, wanted decentralized banks under private control. (The claim that the Federal Reserve Act was a modified form of the Aldrich plan was also made in Glass' day, and it was a notion he detested.

In a 1922 speech before the Senate, Glass called the idea "a total misunderstanding," and said "no greater misconception was ever projected in this Senate Chamber ...") It was Wilson who suggested an altruistic board of governors appointed by the executive branch. Even though he may not have entirely liked that idea, Glass and his sharp tongue helped guarantee the bill's passage.


Study the symptoms not the virus...

Bokonon's picture

Everybody who pretends to be a church is a tax evader, including Pat Robertson.

If I get to come back as a sociopath in a future life, the first thing I'm going to do is pretend to be a church. Not just for the tax breaks, but for all the donations I'll get for just pretending.

Truth_Critic's picture

... work for?


Study the symptoms not the virus...

Milquetoast's picture

...for the "MIC"


audit-prosecute-incarcerate

Truth_Critic's picture

?


Study the symptoms not the virus...

Milquetoast's picture

industrial complex.


audit-prosecute-incarcerate

Alice X - Chomsky Nader's picture

MICC

Military Industrial Congressional Complex


statusquObama, change you can only pretend in

Milquetoast's picture

...indeed.


audit-prosecute-incarcerate

Alice X - Chomsky Nader's picture

Stalin booby trapped the Soviet economy by putting parts suppliers in various republics so the empire would never, could never fly apart.

I can't say the MICC exactly copied him but they did a similar thing.

Nearly every Congressional district has a military interest, and therefore you will never see a partisan vote on military funding.

They nearly all will vote for all of it.

We are doomed.


statusquObama, change you can only pretend in

Milquetoast's picture

...the only (slim) chance we have is to "end The Fed". (imho)


audit-prosecute-incarcerate

Truth_Critic's picture

Though I'd like to see their books :)


Study the symptoms not the virus...

Milquetoast's picture

the IRS has never been audited either.

End The FED! (the dollar is gonna be toast soon anyway...


audit-prosecute-incarcerate

Truth_Critic's picture

First


Study the symptoms not the virus...

Truth_Critic's picture

the agony trickles up ;)


Study the symptoms not the virus...

Truth_Critic's picture

... Devils advocate here. Why do we need the military?


Study the symptoms not the virus...

Milquetoast's picture

empire.

(I'm advocating for satan too)


audit-prosecute-incarcerate

Truth_Critic's picture

Control freaks ;)


Study the symptoms not the virus...

fiver's picture

. . . especially those who advocate.


Corruption favors the wealthy.

njlib's picture

Who does #2 work for?
Austin Powers

lex's picture

Yes a suicide bomber causing murder is definitely an act of terrorism.
You betcha it's Right Wing Terrorism as confirmed by, "right-wing extremist organizations, white supremacists and militia groups were quick to hail Joe Stack as a "hero."

We need to do a massive campaign on the benefits of Government and taxes. I can list a hundred off the top of my head.

We need to ask, what is the alternative to Government? Privatization??? Anarchy??? Fastest guns for hire?? Back to the Medieval Ages???
My god just look how greed has corrupted our world today.

I'm really fond of a fair Flat tax. Tax everybody equally and that would eliminate the basis of whining and most tax cheating.

Alice X - Chomsky Nader's picture

A true progressive tax.


statusquObama, change you can only pretend in

BigDaddyMalcontent's picture

with the flat tax idea is that the super-rich earn most of their money from interest and dividends, rather than income. This is why John Forbes proposed it. His ilk is happy to pay income tax on the small portion of his wealth that comes from a paycheck, just so long as we leave his property and investments alone.

Truth_Critic's picture

Steve's Brother?


Study the symptoms not the virus...

BigDaddyMalcontent's picture

I meant Steve. Don't know where John came from.

lex's picture

Maybe I used the wrong term. I would purpose a tax that taxes everybody's 'total income' at an even rate.

Milquetoast's picture

making food, shelter, clothing, healthcare ect...(necessities)

untaxable, let everyone write off those expenses...and tax whats left over


audit-prosecute-incarcerate

BigDaddyMalcontent's picture

the food isn't caviar, and the shelter isn't a mansion, etc.

Milquetoast's picture

to me!


audit-prosecute-incarcerate

lex's picture

Maybe a workable % of 10%, with no refunds at the end of the year.
Simple, easy, affordable, minimum of complaints.

darrelplant's picture

The problem with that is that such a system would steeply raise taxes on the poor and middle class while simultaneously reducing the portion of tax burden paid by the well-off. The current income tax system, flawed as it is, at least recognizes that the poor shouldn't have to carry as much of the burden of government as those who are better-off.

Any long-time flat tax proponent will tell you about how just a small percentage of the rich pay a huge percentage of the taxes in this country as part of their justification that a flat tax would be more fair. It's true! For instance, in Oregon, more than half the money taken in by the state personal income tax in 2005 came from less then 10% of the filing households (those making more than $100K). Households under $20K (more than a third of filers) contributed 3.33% of the income tax revenue.

A revenue-neutral (where the amount of money taken in by an income tax) shift to a flat tax, would have households paying larger shares of their income pay less, while households currently below that threshold would have to pay more to make up the drop in income.

That, of course, is the whole reason people like Steve Forbes support a flat tax.

BigDaddyMalcontent's picture
Yep

I covered that ground at 16:30.

Terrible's picture

Unless of course you are the one paying it out. Then it's an expense.

njlib's picture

too, i forget the exact figures bu t the top 1% of income earners own like 50% of the country's assets, since the eighties the lower income earners have been subsidizing the complete takeover of the country by the very wealthy. The tax code used to tame income inequality, now we are the worst in the world and at levels not seen since the grat depression, thanks Ronnie Raygun and complicit Dems in the 80's and 90's

kittycollins's picture

was he a most trusted name in news fox watcher? Was he a Becker?

others, and had assets at his disposal that others don't have.

There are plenty of people who owe the IRS money, but do not have luxuries like houses and planes at their disposal.


"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui

JasonShankel's picture

There are lots of legitimate complaints about the IRS. "They wouldn't let me register as a church" isn't one of them.

apartment. People do the same with much less. But no, if he couldn't have his greed sanctioned, no one was going to have his house or plane...

It's sick and disconcerting to see people here defend his homicidal greed.


"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui

Narcissists are good at seeing what people seem to sympathize with and then wrapping themselves up in that.

He could just as well have blamed global warming, the war on drugs and oversexualized youth culture and you'd have just as many people saying "well, i don't agree with what he did, but he's right about Britney's cooch being all over the airwaves."

It's a joke. He didn't do this because of Enron or the bank bailouts. He did this because he couldn't stand the thought that he has to pay his taxes like anyone else.

He's such a hero of the taxpayer, he might have considered not murdering any of them.

BigDaddyMalcontent's picture

If I recall correctly, he only owed $13,000. I'll bet the IRS allows you to set up a payment plan if you can't afford the whole thing at once. Plus, as you suggested, he could've sold his plane.
There was much in his manifesto that I agree with, but that doesn't justify flying a plane into a building. They guy was obviously stone cold fuck nuts, as Lewis Black would say.

JasonShankel's picture

$13,000? The cost of a car lease?

You know, I got dinged by the IRS a year ago for about $7k (clerical error on my part.)

I had the money, so no big whoop, but they made it very clear that I had all kinds of payment plans and options.

Then due to a clerical error on their part, I overpaid and they refunded me, with interest and in a timely manner.

And I don't have a plane. House, yeah, but not a plane.

$13,000 is nothing if you've got an engineering degree, a house and a plane. He just couldn't stand the fact that his "I'm a church!" scam didn't work.

There are plenty of people in this world with actual problems who are not murderers.

We could maybe spend some energy on them.

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