Joe Biden shuts down GOP talking point-spewing machine UPDATED
By SilentPatriot Sunday Oct 26, 2008 4:00pmUPDATE below.
Joe Biden sat down for an interview with Florida television anchor Barbara West Thursday and got hit by a barrage of Sean Hannity's talking points, prompting him to ask at one point, "Are you joking? Is this a joke? Is that a real question?"
Interviewer: "You may recognize this famous quote: "From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs." That's from Karl Marx. How is Senator Obama not being a Marxist if he intends to spread the wealth around?"
Biden: "Are you joking? Is this a joke?"
Interviewer: "No"
Biden: "Is that a real question?"
Interviewer: "That's a real question"
[...]
Interviewer: "Are you forewarning Americans that nothing will be done, and America's days as a world leading power are over?"
Biden: "Umm, no, I'm not at all. I don't know who's writing your questions."
[...]
Interviewer: "What do you say to the people who are concerned that Barack Obama will want to turn America into a socialist country much like Sweden?"
Someone's been listening to a little too much Rush Limbaugh. Sheesh. Compare this interview to the softballs she threw John McCain less than two weeks ago. Kudos to the Obama campaign for responding by canceling a Jill Biden interview with the same network.
The woman was like a cartoonish caricature of a wingnut, and her questions were straight out of a Steven Colbert interview. I kept waiting for her to ask Biden when Obama stopped being a member of al Qaeda.
UPDATE. Surprise, surprise. Her husband is a GOP media consultant. Ya think she got the questions via her husband, or did Rick Davis skip the middleman?
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delightfully offensive to our hosts and embarrassing to the many Canadians who post on this site. Myself included. Please take a moment to SHUT THE FU*K UP.
and am just joining the thread. I'm not sure what was said, but it must have been a doozy!
[Deleted. Not from this site, off this thread. Want to be banned? Keep up with the off topic blogwhoring-Sitemonitor]
Thanks for the spam, jerk.
Thanks for the blog whoring wingnut. I can't wait for the dividends on your trust fund to be taxed out of existence.
As in liar, liar, pants on fire? Oh, I get it now---fair taxation = I selfishly keep my money at the expense of helping the public good. Nice try, jackass.
Where could that evil idea have come from?
Oh wait...
All that believed were together, and had all things in common; And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
(Acts 2:44-45 KJV)
;o}
If Jesus were here they'd give him the same treatment.... toothless old pharasees that they are.
They don't care about democracy, freedom, morality, or god.... they just want P.O.W.E.R
If you really want to read something that just kils the Bush Administration and more importantly, where McCain is coming from versus Obama with regards to diplomatic discussions....this front page story on BBC NEWS website is a must.
How will McCain ever defend against this???
Comments please.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/769226...
Are some of these so called interviewers programmed or what? The questions are almost robotic. Did she attend the University of Brainwashing? Glad Biden responded the way he did. That was odd.
they've become just like parrots. Biden used the most effective technique there is. He laughed at them.
They are so stupid, the only thing you can do is laugh at them, otherwise you might strangle them.
Yeah, 84% of the people don't want rich fuckers taxed - they just want jobs! Does that even make any sense? Are they so stupid they can't understand that 5% of the popoulation making 49.8% of the money and paying almost no taxes doesn't work.
How does this stupid b**ch think their going to get jobs without taxes? And where did she get that poll from, the Fox News anchor room?
I agree, it is impossible to push off a bullshit story on someone who burst out laughing every time you open your mouth, it works even better if you have more than one person doing it with you. My friends and I take sandwichs and make a day of it, too much fun, we call it," rectum baiting."-CEO,citizens,eyes,open
Basically, she's Jeff Gannon without the shaved head. The fact that she's married to a GOP advisor is no surprise.
Seriously, WTF? "Senator Biden, can you tell us when Senator Obama stopped being a Marxist?"
And Sweden!? OMG, WHAT A HELL-HOLE THAT PLACE IS! No American would want to live in such a dysfunctional society!
(Source: CIA Facts Book.)
Public debt (% GDP): USA: 60.8 Sweden: 41.7
Industrial Growth Rate: USA: -1.7 Sweden: +3
GDP Growth rate: USA: 2.0 Sweden: 2.7
Inflation: USA: 2.9 Sweden: 2.2
Investment (%GDP): USA: 15.5 Sweden: 19
Per capita spending on health care: USA: $5700 Sweden: $2745 (to cover EVERYBODY)
Health care spending as % of GDP: USA: 15.2 Sweden: 9.3
Infant mortality rate/1000: USA: 6.3 Sweden: 2.5
Life expectancy: USA: 78.14 Sweden: 80.74
Education spending as % of GDP: USA:5.3 Sweden:7.1
I think maybe THESE are the stats that the right wingers don’t like about Sweden:
The U.S. per capita income is slightly higher. Per capita income: USA: 45.8K Sweden: 37.5K
BUT, it is not evenly distributed. The GINI index and the Rich/Poor 10% index are both measures of the polarization between rich and poor. A higher GINI index represents a greater dispersal of incomes (the U.S.A. GINI index is the highest in the western world). The Rich/Poor 10% index divides the wealth held by the top 10% of the population by the lowest 10%.
GINI index (higher GINI indicates greater gap between rich and poor)
USA: 45 Sweden: 23
Rich/Poor ratio (wealth of top 10% divided by wealth of bottom 10%)
USA: 15 Sweden: 6.2
Like the research and the attempt at evidence-based evaluations (slight caution on using $$ numbers as exchange rates play unfortunate roles). The GDP% numbers are really galling. Yet, the current mindset of the ruling clique and its legions of lackeys is to arrive at conclusions based only upon 'common sense' - what everybody knows! - you betcha and all that - America is the best! Your attempt at placing your cognitive abilities before your patriotism is decadent and insolent.....congratulations...;)
Actually, it's okay to use $$, because those figures are reported in PPP ( Purchasing Power Parity ) which takes that into account.
But yes, bringing up facts is usually a waste of time when you're dealing with demagogues who've invested 30 years in propaganda that says everything european is bad.
I'm not surprised she brought up Sweden, though, since if you look at most of the rest of western europe, it makes the U.S. look even worse. In fact, the U.S. is doing worse than every other member of the G8, except Russia. As I said, the only area where the U.S. stands out is in the average per capita income, and the average is misleading, because most of the wealth is concentrated in the top five percent thanks to Republican policies of SOCIALISM for the rich.
Yeah, I thought she was going to ask, "Senator Biden, why does Barack Obama hate America?"
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, WOMAN!! How does she have a job? Is this a Fox affiliate?
Looks like WFTV is in some very serious trouble in Central Florida (Orlando) today since Wade West, Barbara West's husband has been researched and found to be a GOP consultant.
Central Florida is arranging a boycott of everything WFTV sponsors as well as any sponsor of their programming.
The people are demanding that Wade West's real identity to Barbara West (Husband and GOP operative) be made known to the american people immediately or this station will risk the total loss of viewership in Central Florida.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/10/26/...
If you have relatives in Florida, ask them to join the immediate boycott of ALL programming of WTFV in Orlando. We'll hit these losers where it hurts - in their pocketbook - and in the loss of their sponsors.
This is huge and really getting traction today. Send the information about this "biased GOP operative named Barbara West (who's husband, Wade West, has been a well-known GOP operative)" need to be removed from her anchor chair.
WTFV must also disclose Barbara West's marital relationship to Wade West and apologize to viewers for not telling them that these two are married and Barbara West does not have the ability to remain honest and fair in her interviews due to her lockstepping allegiance to her husband and the GOP.
FAIR AND UNBIASED? MY SWEET ASS!
I have travelled all over the world and even lived overseas and lived all over the US. I have never been to Florida and never had a desire to go to FL. Am 60 yrs old and I have made it so far. FL seems to be a pretty disfunctional. The state only seems to want the halleiujah crowd only. Why should I spend my money in a place like that.
you beat me to it.
Sorry, I was replying to the person who mentioned West's husband was a McCain campaign worker...I must have goofed on the reply...my bad.
Biden should have cut the nonsense off by telling this botoxed, teeth-capped, ignorant puffball to go to a university library and grab a half-dozen books on politics, history and economics, register in the appropriate academic courses and then give him a ring IF she passes the final exams. Also, he should tell her that if she gets better a "C" grade, he will give her a letter of reference that includes a note to the effect that she bettered the GPA of the simian warmonger's achievements (yeah, like an MBA is really graduate school!) at Yale.
Thanks for putting this up. I think it is something everyone should see. RedState had this up yesterday; they thought it was serious and professional journalism.
I've never seen a more ridiculous performance in my life. Biden got it just right when he shook his head and asked if she was kidding; was her question a joke. I thought I was watching a clever Onion spoof. Except it was obviously really Biden.
I've already sent both her and the general manager of WFTV letters expressing my outrage that someone so transparently biased (as bad or worse than anything one sees on Fox) is permitted to give interviews.
The interviewers name is Barbara West. Contact information is available on this page: http://www.wftv.com/station/1874549/detail.html
Her email address is: barbara.west@wftv.com
The station general manager can be reached from this page:
http://www.wftv.com/contact/index.html
(snicker) WMTA. :)
West, along with WFTV must be deluged with email today putting them on notice that the public knows about Wade West, Barbara's lockstepping husband and GOP consultant, and are encouraging other central floridians to boycott their station immediately.
Just watched the clip. Damn!
Biden wasn't being sarcastic when he asked if her question was a joke. It sounded like Colbert - only SHE was serious!
Station letters mean. What Fucking TV is this.
For a minute there I thought the station code was WTFTV.
barbara.west@wtffv.com
That's better.
Listen I didn't like the questions Babs gave. However, she did have a right to ask them. I thought Biden did a great job by answering her questions. She came off looking like a fool. Biden did the interview perfectly. He also did the right thing by cutting off interviews with his wife and this reporter. This woman has her own agenda and you can see that up front. Her boss was right to defend her and if I were democrats I wouldn't go on any of her interviews.
I just sent the following email to Barabara
Barbara,
I wanted to thank you for your interview with Joe Biden. Although I thought your questions were biased and sophomoric, they did give Biden an opportunity to refute some of the falsehoods that have been spread concerning Obama by the right-wing media. I thought Biden did an excellent job of answering all of them. Although I suspect it was not your intention, I believe you have contributed to the prospects of Florida voters moving towards Obama. You can take comfort in that your sacrifice of your credibility as an interviewer was a worthwhile price to pay for the noble cause of helping Obama become the next President of the United States.
Sincerely,
You can write (politely, please) the television station where this took place and voice your concerns.
http://www.wftv.com/contact/index.html
Even polite won't make a difference, the station heads knew exactly what they were doing when they put this wingnut up to interview Biden.
It isn't that she's just listening to right wing talking points. She's married to GOP media consultant ed:Wade West.
Her earlier interview with McCain... not so tough. Surprise, surprise, surprise.
Edit: Wade, and I knew I wasn't the only one here to see that. :)
Doesn't he or his advisors know to keep him out of shark filled waters? That's all they need is, "another crisis is going to happen" moment from Joe.
Majicman, whatever happen to fair and balanced? Are any of these people running for office suppose to find out about any local reporter is left or right? They all should answer the questions. They are adults. Biden did the interview just fine. She came off looking like a fool that she is. If these candidates can't take the heat than how can they stand up to world leaders? We see why Palin is a loser and McCain using bad judgement.
Various other sources are stating that Ms West's husband is
a media consultant for the Republican party. That would
explain the questions.
By the way, what happened to full disclosure for such a
conflict of interest situation? Probably disappeared
like the fairness in broadcasting principle in the
1980s. Anyone remember when the opposition parties had
equal time to respond?
I'm sending this to everyone I know who either lives in their progamming areas and/or observed this ridiculous interview by this hate-spewing lockstepper. People nationwide are calling for the immediate dismissal of West from their programming and/or filing petitions for non-disclosure of her marital relationship to Wade West, known GOP operative.
WFTV's licensure is now in serious question due to this obvious "conflict of interest". I think they're in huge trouble right now thanks to this anchor's inability to provide unbiased, fair news to the people of central florida.
I've seen some petitions circulating for either the immediate removal of Barbara West OR face an FCC complaint inquiry.
You are right Torontonian. Maybe when President Obama will bring it back. By the way I love your Country. Great people and lots of places to see.
Just the usual right wing nonsense.
The interviewer was a robot, they are getting very good, the technology is quite advanced.
Sometimes they stutter and repeat themselves, also when their batteries run down they can fall over.
BTW, I know Marx, and Senator you are no Marxist.
wow, she is amazing.
So her husband is a gop consultant.....hmmmm...and this is what passes for "objective" journalism. Here's the problem with conservatives screaming about the liberal media bias....reality has a liberal bias. Or in other words, reality has a common sense bias which the right wing does not have and hasn't had for at least 8 years. This woman hopefully makes the black list for democrats and will not see another democratic nominee in her lifetime.
Frankly, everyone suspected this from this woman. She lobbed soft balls at McCain to the chagrin of serious voters in Florida and it was so obvious that it rated as a "non interview".
Barbara West is a loser with a capital "L". Now that we know how much WFTV has to lose with an FCC investigation into their biased journalism, it's time to hit them hard.
If the people organize against this station as they did against the idiocy of Michele Bachman (and I hear the boycott is really taking hold since Floridians believe this station to be substandard and of little interest to them), then we will see the total fall of WFTV in the coming weeks.
Frankly, it couldn't happen to a more deserving gang of thugs, if this woman is representative of their lack of oversight of their employees in something which should be as factual and unbiased as a political interview.
I think WFTV's days are numbered now.
Cox Communications, based in Atlanta, owns the station. And they certainly want to keep the Republicans in control of the FCC so they can keep the deregulation train on schedule.
The CEO of Cox is Forbes' 49th wealthiest American, obviously one of the biggest recipients of Republican tax cuts.
That was THE most biased interview I've ever seen. She regurgitated wildly speculative, misleading or already disproven Republican talking points, with her own slimy flair.
I suggest you all do as I did: Write the FCC.
I don't know much about Cox, but Wikipedia refers to the Cox family as being big-time DEMOCRATIC Party donors with lots of connections and clout inside the Party. The family patriarch was a Democratic Gov. of Ohio back in the 20s or something. I can totally believe the keeping alive the FCC racket angle, but is there more to it than that: have the younger generations of the family turned right-wing or something?
I would not doubt it. That's the problem with inheritances of multi millions and billions...not having to work for anything makes you Republican. Only Democrats have to work for anything.
What could lie behind Syria raid?
By Jonathan Marcus
Diplomatic correspondent, BBC News
Syria has said American troops carried out a raid inside Syria along the Iraqi border, killing eight people - if the claims are true then this will be the first military incursion by the US into Syrian territory from Iraq.
Syria's foreign minister Walid al-Muallem met US officials at the UN
But its timing is curious, coming right at the end of the Bush administration's period of office and at a moment when many of America's European allies - like Britain and France - are trying to broaden their ties with Damascus.
Whatever the local military factors involved in this US operation, it would be unthinkable to imagine that an incursion into Syria would not require a policy decision at a high-level.
The movement of insurgents and foreign fighters from Syria into Iraq has long been a bone of contention between Damascus and Washington.
The US argument has always been that the Syrians are not doing enough to control the border. The Syrians have always countered that they are unfairly being blamed for turmoil inside Iraq that is not of their making.
Quite apart from their differences over Iraq, Washington sees Syria as unhelpful in Lebanon and as far too friendly with Iran.
While there have been relatively high-level contacts between the two governments - US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice meeting the Syrian Foreign Minister Walid al-Muallem on the sidelines of the UN General Assembly just a few weeks ago - they have hardly generated any warmth.
Washington has even been lukewarm to Turkey's efforts to broker a peace deal between Israel and Syria.
Nicolas Sarkozy (r) has sought to warm relations with his Syrian counterpart
All of this is in marked contrast to European efforts to engage the Syrians.
With French President Nicolas Sarkozy in the lead, a number of European countries have sought to bring Syria in from the cold.
But despite glimmerings of dissent from the State Department, the Bush administration has held firm to its policy of no substantive talks with Syria unless - as the Americans put it - Damascus decides to take a more "positive role" in the region.
With the Bush administration on the way out, this US military incursion may represent something of a parting shot against the Syrians.
It's clear that if Senator Barrack Obama were to win the White House, his key advisers are among the strongest advocates of engaging with the Damascus across a broad spectrum of issues.
Is John McCain still a member of Aryan Nation?
Will there be an America left after John McCain declares war on every country that puts their own interests ahead of ours?
I got a long note from someone on facebook basically stating that women had to step up and vote for America against the Evil Barack HUSSEIN Obama. I don't normally reply to this kind of crap but did by stating I was disturbed by the tone of the note. Stating as a woman and Christian I had done my due diligence and with good conscience I would vote for Obama. I suggested that everyone do their own research and not be swayed by alarmist views. I did not attack her personally I did not thrown out arguments against but just said the tone bothered me.
Another woman and one man responded who were voting for Obama and then 12 men responded with all these links about BO's lack of birth certificate, terroist affl. etc. The orginator of the note then wrote about me and the other woman who responded basically insulting our intelligence, values, etc.
Dear Abby what should I do? I unfollowed this crazy right wing person but was that right? I know I should have never gone into that bar (note)but it really bothered me.
I wouldn't even get into the Palin/Obama conversation I had with my "independent, really Republican" friend. Sigh... Oh yeah... Biden kicked ass...
You did a fantastic job. By not lowering yourself to their level, you got your point across - which is quite reminiscent of how Obama is running his campaign. We do not need to lower ourselves to their levels, we just need to combat the smears, and it sounds like you did just that.
Should you wade back in? If you can control yourself with reason, logic and sweetness, go for it. Totally go for it!!
prefer civility Ms Joanne but in the face of such stupidity I often find the urge to push buttons quite irresistible. I usually send them a message linking to a site showing the changing demographics of my country ( And yes we have many nuts too). And then I ask them what they're going to do when they are the minority. Much hilarity ensues.
From what I have read from you, you are much better at civility than I am. While I try, I don't have the appropriate level of tolerance for idiocy that many do, and I find that my civility is not always what I would like it to be.
When I write letters rebuffing someone, be it media or what have you, I find that I have to read, reread, and rereread several times to ensure that the tone is that which is appropriate to the situation at hand.
It often takes quite a lot of effort to do that.
The person in question emailed me a backhanded apology of sorts saying God would never condone same sex marriage or abortion.
I replied that I was offended at an assumption about my faith, and values, and intelligence because I was voting differently. I replied Jesus fed the multitude with loaves and fishes not because they earned it but bec. it was the right thing to do. I also stated I didn't think I could assume what Jesus would condone and that he would reject anyone... I also said if God truly had a hand in the election then who won would be the right choice and I would support that. Mind you I never attacked her personally.
She responded saying that I did not know God Blah, blah blah... I then responded and asked her not to contact me again since she could not respect that I had diff. view of God. Two of her friends asked to be my friend and I fear I may have opened a can worms I didn't mean too. Christopher Hitchens where are you?
When I first watched the video she looked vaguely familiar, I thought is that Barbara West? It can't be, sure enough it was. I have never really encountered her in such a way. I was surprised to hear these type of questions. I guess its cause I never did really watch the news in Orlando or see her interview other political guests, I'd be interested in finding if she has done this before. She has been a News anchor in Orlando for quite some time, her and Bob Opsal were the staple of I believe ABC's affiliate. So I'm sure there could be other instances of this kind of lunacy. Talk Radio is also popular in Orlando with numerous Rush, Hannity and Oreilly advertisement boards, so I wouldn't be surprised if they just listened to them before they developed their questions.
Why the hell not!? He smacked those questions down and made her look like a total dumbass... that was great!
You hit the nail (or the moron) on the head with that comment. West is dumber than a box of rocks....a bubbleheaded bleach-blonde box of beach rocks.
also a lot of fun to again watch/listen to Babs interview Miss Sarah, doncha' think??
Really!
"Vice-President-Elect Palin, what do you think Americans love more about you, your Executive Experience or Winning Smile?"
Instead of smacking her questions down
He should smacked her on the butt
She'd probably enjoy that.
Drudge went apeshit about this "interview".
Drudge who? That coward in cahoots with Ashley Todd?
Drudge, the Toddy Toadie?
This man is a national disgrace. I wouldn't visit his website if it was the only site on the internet.
Why would anyone go to a moron to get legitimate news?
Especially that part at the end where Biden jumped through the screen and carved a "B" on Barbara West's cheek. Then stole her wallet and ran off to spread her wealth around to black welfare queens who make six figures a year filling out fake ACORN voter registration forms? Yeah, I'll bed Drudge went apeshit, alright.
Need to have more of these bubble headed 'interviewers' verbally slapped down like this more often.
Hey, why hasn't some one with a bigger megaphone than I, make this inference. If you, Mr Republican publicly mock the "spread the wealth around" statement, that means you must stand for the opposite which would be to not do so I.E. you stand for concentrating the wealth, and the past 8 years have proven you walk the talk.
McBush has been doing just that: spreading the wealth around to all of his fascist cronies and big business for 8 years.....and then crying like little girls to have middle america bail their foolish asses out.
That's McCain's definition of "spreading the wealth around".
The more they open their mouths; the more damage they do. It's what being Republican has come to define.
With this kind of crap being aired as "straight" interviewing, what do satirists do? How can you satirize this?
Reminds me of the difficulty that comics/satirists had with the mascara-dripping religionist, Tammy Fay (Fae?), who was so over-the-top that it was difficult if not impossible to both determine and hyper-realize her distinguidhing characteristics. Ditto for the diapered, whimpering messenger of gawd, her husband, the reverend Jim Bakker.
Josephine the Plumber!
is the perfect Republican Stepford wife. She did exactly what her husband told her to do.
She's a mindless moron who obviously is subservient to her reichstag husband. Feel sorry for her. She's trapped.
I think that is too simplistic...and, sorry, but it has a certain smack of sexism. Just because her husband is a GOP tool, as is she, you are assuming that she doesn't have the ability to be a dumb shit on her own, that she has been brainwashed by her spouse.
Ideals and values do not have to come from ones spouse. She may have always been a Gooper and is now a Gooper hack, all on her own. Don't make the mistake of letting her off the hook for her own behavior and bad decisions by placing them on her man. She could easily be a dumb c*nt all on her own.
You are right. She could equally well be a greater ass than her husband.
Never ever feel sorry for one of those Clorox bleached blondes. Ever.
"What do you say to the people who are concerned that Barack Obama will want to turn America into a socialist country much like Sweden?"
I take offense that my country is used as a scare tactic or for a cheap political point. If the American right would only come over here and see for themselves, how we in Sweden live, they would find that we are not living in a totalitarian state. Some socialism would do your country some good. Just thought that I should throw in my two cents in this discussion.
And her scare tactic about socialised medicine is asinine. She and other GOP mouth pieces throw 'socialised' around without knowing WTF it means, or ignoring how many socialised programs there already are in the US.
...and a very good 2 cents too. Don't judge America by this one 'wing nut', Sweden is a wonderful country. My 2 cents, now we have 4 cents. Now let's drive our Volvo's into the sunset.
I am not judging ALL Americans. I am just judging the narrow minded right. I have never been to your country, but I follow your election with great interest and would really like to see an end to the fear mongering that is, and has been, coming from the republicans these last couple of years. I hope that, by electing Obama, you get back the respect from the rest of the world, that your government has pi**ed away these last 8 years.
And by the way, I really like the sunset :-)
It comes in part from the meme that still infects many in the US (typically speaking a lot more on the right than the left) that the US is the greatest country on Earth... I'm sorry, but it's not. Look at the history... You might be able to reach higher highs in the US, but a lot of people are at lower lows than those in a lot of other industrialised countries... It all evens out in the end.
With free healthcare and a higher quality of life than America. Wouldn't that be just HORRIBLE.
Stockholm is rated in the top 20 best cities for quality of life, along with cities in other "socialist" bastions, like Denmark, Canada, Germany, Switzerland, New Zealand and The Netherlands.
Guess how many American cities made it into the top 20? Nada.
She might be careful about using Sweden as an example of how bad things can get when you go "socialist."
It just gives people who are greedy and ignorant a convenient cover saying it is "not American" to cover everyone with healthcare and allow the super wealthy to pay more taxes to help out society.
There is a huge difference between Socialism and social programs. I wish the Republicans would learn the difference. And I wish they would stop throwing around terms like Marxism around unless they understand what they mean. Maybe we should by encyclopedias for those on the right.
They make decisions based on nothing.
McCain said this morning when he was on MTP, and I quote:
“It’s hard for me to respond to assumptions I don’t agree with.”
There is no logic to that (not to mention it being terribly frightening). That is the basis of all gooper "logic." There is none.
You're absolutely correct. The problem is this: most Americans are so poorly educated when it comes to everything from world history to politics to social justice, they believe any tax may as well be Communism. And the Republicans have been infamously effective at exploiting this poor education.
Obama has succeeded by doing what other Democrats have avoided doing (for fear of being beaten with the Commie stick): He's stuck to true Democratic principles and avoided being Republican Lite.
And now that everything else has failed for McCain, they have to resort to their old stand-by's "The Russkies are Comin'!" "The Negra's are gonna rape yer daughter!" It's so pathetic.
i dont think there is a person on the planet who is frightened about becoming sweden
in fact, if this country does become like sweden, it would be all that bad
free health care,paid education through university, low unemployment, low birth mortality rates, healthier living standards
i think she confused sweden with france
Maybe, maybe not?
'dem vikings are pretty skery wit there big sords and meen boats an the way the kill people in the villages and take their wealth...
Trust me, the true believers who frequent web sites like RedState are terrified of becoming like Sweden. For them the idea that everyone would have health insurance is every bit as terrifying as the idea that the Taliban is going to take over the US, make everyone worship Allah, force women to wear burkhas, and murder hundreds of thousands of innocent people.
What is amazing is that if you could demonstrate beyond any reasonable doubt that a policy, e.g., single payer universal health care, was vastly superior to what the US has now, if the true believers identified it in any way with Sweden or with anything they deemed the least bit tainted by socialism, they would be against it with all their being. They don't function rationally; the function ideologically.
It is all ideological and completely illogical. Rush, et al, have done a good job of making everything liberal and democratic dirty and bad, to the detriment of many who would benefit.
Ignorance is a terrible thing. A mind is a terrible thing to waste.
(First post under the new policy and also a new sobriquet. Anyone remember Dobie Gillis?)
MsJoanne:
I totally agree, but Liberals, Democrats, and Progressives are partly to blame. They've allowed the Right to do all this hijacking of terms with impunity. How often have you heard one -- ONE -- Democrat politician come out and defend the term "Liberal", for example? Not only do they not defend it, but they often RUN from it, as if embarrassed by it. It's a virtuous term for Christ sake!!! How many Democrats appear on Fox, for example, and simply squirm, smile, or laugh, as they or their policies are being attacked? Shouldn't just about every Democrat in this country be familiar with Fox and its blindsiding tactics by now and attempt to go on there prepared to counter their slop?
Take pride in your party. Defend its policies. And more importantly, hit back, HIT BACK! When Sean Hannity says something like, Barack wants to raise your taxes ..., hit back with, Didn't Ronald Reagan raise taxes six times after he cut them ..?
It is time to fight back against the cheap shots!
(Screw Doby Gillis. Remember when Homer Simpson dropped an atomic bomb on Maynard Krebbs?)
Yes, liberals have ALLOWED Republicans to take over the terminology of the debate, without fighting back against it. (Thus, partially proving the Republican point that liberals have no spine.) At this point the consensus is that so much damage has been done to the word 'liberal' that we may as well just pull the rug out from under the Republican strategy, and start calling ourselves Progressives. However, they jumped the gun by calling themselves progressives before they'd even agreed on a definition for the term. So, when asked to spell out the differences between liberal and progressive they get caught flat footed.
However, in defense of Democrats, I know of at least ONE who has pushed back against the Republican/conservative smear campaign against the word liberal. HOWARD DEAN! I saw him on the Charlie Rose show once where he said "everybody is running away from the word liberal, and nobody wants to admit that they are one. Well, I can tell you that the last president who gave you balanced budgets and budget surplus' was a liberal named Bill Clinton. Well, I'm not ashamed of it. (Puts up his hand) Look here, I'm a LIBERAL."
And, to make things even better, he had the cajones to actually GO TO CANADA, and attend the CANADIAN LIBERAL PARTY CONVENTION, and address them in FRENCH! HOWARD DEAN! NOT afraid to be called a liberal!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDNY5sX9CL4
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61YPUdO1i5M
People in the WFTV viewing area need to contact every advertiser and tell them that they will not patronize that business as long as Barbara West is on the station payroll. Then, DO NOT patronize those businesses until Mrs. West is GONE!
this doesn't surprise me at all. She was given a script and read it like a good kool-aide drinker does. Joe did an amazing job of making her look like the fool she is.
It's unbelievable they bail out the greedy bankers and businessmen and they have the nerve to say Obama wants to give a tax break to the vast middle class therefore he is a "socialist". These right wing morons don't even know what socialist means.
I guess you didnt know this but, Obama voted for the bailout.
He (Obama) is one of (they) that you are referring to.
I was always a Kucinich supporter, but Obama's the best progressives can hope for when the corporate media won't let this country have a real left wing.
That is all you ever do.
(Handing you some cheese and French bread) Go have a picnic with your whine.
gonf has been enlightened.
Oh NOES!1!!!@!!!~~!!! Everyone knows what a true HELL Sweden is! She's pissed because that's not as good as turning it into a socialist country like NORWAY.
I'd hold out for that too, sweetie.
But hey, seriously, if I thought for one second Obama would attempt to turn America into a socialist country much like Sweden, I'd vote for him instead of Nader.
Would that the Bush-Paulson-McCain-Obama
BailoutHeist were on the lines of the Swedes who Nationalized their banking system.Too bad Biden cannot retort on that one.
Instead of marching orders we give the Fat Cats boatloads of cash with no strings for equity shares without voting rights and with limited interest bearing requirements.
The moral hazard is enormous, the nominal $700 Billion will swell many fold and still will not work. The 850,000 defaulted mortages in the last year are in the pipes and there may be that many in the next year all of which, without being addressed guarantees a continuing nightmare.
Here is Nader on the potential for a serious fumigation in Washington.
Till then Sweden looks awfully good.
Finland would have been a better example to use since, like Alaska, Russia is a neighbor. I think a December visit to Lappeenranta for Ms West might do her thinking some good.
If I hadn't read otherwise about this reporter I'd say that the whole thing looked like a prearranged setup to let Joe tear down the tired Republican talking points. You have to laugh at her, she was probably really looking forward to her opportunity to bask in Republican sunlight and now finds herself on every Democratic blog as the parrot joke that she is.
What could lie behind Syria raid?
BBC News - 2 hours ago
By Jonathan Marcus Syria has said American troops carried out a raid inside Syria along the Iraqi border, killing eight people - if the claims are true then this will be the first military incursion by the US into Syrian territory from Iraq.
Syria condemns ‘US aggression’ after cross-border raid Times Online
US Kills Eight in Syria, Syrian News Service Says (Update1) Bloomberg
The Associated Press - Xinhua - Washington Times - Telegraph.co.uk
all 862 news articles »
http://news.google.com/?ncl=1262886339&hl=en&topic=h
great...
wouldnt put it past bush to play petty and give mccain an assist. he has done it before.
the republicans are waiting for a national security event to turn the tide. stephen hayes seems to be asking for one.
I wish we had Swedish-style socialism in the US! But the more Americans hear "socialism" being used as a scare word, the more they're gonna wanna distance themselves from the word and the idea. I was amazed that all it took in the late 80s/early 90s to turn "liberal" into a scare word was to have it repeated in disgusted tones over and over in the media.
And what's wrong with spreading the wealth around? We need more progressive taxation. What we have now is regressive taxation that only benefits the wealthy.
Socialism to wingnuts is the same thing as Soviet style communism. It shows you how buried these misanthropes are in the past and how craven, selfish, and manipulative they are.
Share MY resources for the common good? Why that's not the Neocon way! F---K the poor!
If you want to read a good book on how Europe is way ahead of the US, read "The United States of Europe" bu T.R. Reid. It is an enlightening answer to the chest thumping America Firsters.
without the old C&L reply format, it's hard to make sense of some of these comments... might ought to get in the habit of copy/paste a line or two of the comment one is responding to... at least a name...
but then, i guess if i were being addressed, i'd know it... heh.
.
good segment on CBS SUNDAY MORNING today about HEALTH CARE IN FRANCE...
wonder how many fright wingers watched...
katy, you are registered. You can change the display mode to threaded to keep the comments grouped together by selecting the little button at the bottom right of the comments.
Biden didn't say enough to this woman. She needed to be humiliated. I wish Biden had stayed cool, and coolly torn her into little tiny bits.
What network is this? Biden did a great job! Creepy lady.
God I can't wait until election day is over!
They just happen to be two of the most advanced countries in the world. They lead in Science, Wind/Solar/Tidal-power, River control, They have some of the best medical in the world and it is free to its citizens.
Oh, and they are peaceful.
that and the sweden line were hilarious
when is she going on tour
she has a great standup act
Is this a FOX affilliate? If Obama wins FOX needs to be shutout. They have bashed him 24/7 starting in the primaries. They really should be concerned.
You see, it's like this, anytime someone speaks out against the established Administration they are labeled "The Liberal Press" for telling the truth.
That's why we need FOx around to tell the untruths ......
You see the balance here?
(snark)
Under a new Fairness Doctrine, Fox would have to register itself as GOP Information, errr....,propaganda.
katy, you are registered. You can change the display mode ...
yes, i thought of that right after i posted... but that format is a hassle... scrolling up and around to read the latest? no thanks...
i do miss that "reply" format the most... if only people would delete most of it, when doing so, it wouldn't've eaten up so much band width...
maybe?
It is easy to change back and forth, and for the few times I have to find context, I change to threaded and then immediately go back to flat.
I hate the new format here...but it is what it is so I make the best.
I absolutely dispise this new format! Maybe if we all ask John nicely, just maybe, he will bring back the old format?
BUT...maybe if John is reading this, they could pass it along to their web guru...
It would be nice to have a QUOTE button where people select PARTS of the quote (by highlighting it) allowing them to quote prior text. If they do not highlight anything, nothing quotes.
I think the main problem with the prior quote function was that it quoted everything and it took a lot of bandwidth which is expensive.
My suggestion might mitigate that and still allow us some of the functionality we miss. That would make the flat comments (as I almost always use) a little more tolerable in having the comments readily make some kind of sense.
There are some good enhancements, like the ability to edit. Short of that...not so much.
Then you don't have to scroll.
It's a C&L divisive tactic to separate the Threaders from the Scrollers. Soon we'll divide up into affiliations and start attacking those not on our side. Flame wars will ensue with each side claiming Obama Scrolls or Palin Threads. It's all downhill from there...
The old format was too centrist perhaps?
JUST BECAUSE YOU SCROLL DOESN'T MAKE YOU RIGHT!
see - it's working...
Another Good Karl Marx Quote From 'Das Kapital'(1867)
'The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. A tax upon house-rents, therefore, would in general fall heaviest upon the rich; and in this sort of inequality there would not, perhaps, be anything very unreasonable. It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.'
This is the kind of hogwash the Obama and teh libruls believe in. Let all Real Americans pray for a McCain-Palin victory over these communists Muslims who hate our country. Oh and Also Lord, Please Protect Us From The Witches.
Thanks for the fun though, I do believe you were being snarky right?
Caught me.
Wait a minute. I've been told that was a quote from 'The Wealth of Nations' (1776) by Adam Smith - the father of Free Market Economics. Apparently when McCain and Palin refer to 'sharing the wealth' and 'socialism' they are just referring to progressive taxation - a system that has been successful and popular in this country for over 100 years.
Witches fooled me!
They put a spell on me!
AAAARRRGGGHHH!
Witches, oh shit, not them! Hope they only bother unreal merikuhns!
Holy crap! Tough questions are fine but that was just partisan fear mongering stupidity. Well done Joe.
Congrats! Your audition for Fox News was a huge hit.
BUT... she looks more female than ingraham.
Where were this fools parents when it came time to teach her not to lie,steal, cheat and so on. I wonder if she also eats with her fingers and passes gas at the dinner table or in public? nose picker anyone? She thought the Marx quote was from Groucho. How would you like to be the proud parents of that little paid stooge? It was painfully clear that she had not a clue( outside of her crayon written bs points) of what she was talking about. Well Sen, what about the fact that the black people will take over the country if Osama...I mean Obama is elected president? un-fucking believeable, e-mail the station, e-mail the FCC.-CEO,citizens,eyes,open
Actually the Karl Marx quote that is appropriate is 'Give them enough Rope and they'll hang Themselves', because that is what we are seeing the Conservative Movement doing right now.
to the FSM's pastacles. I hope it is dead and buried forever. Final death could not happen to a more deserving movement (I have seen better movements swirling down my toilet than fucking conservatism.)
I do believe they are swirling 'round the bowl as we speak. But history repeats and they'll be back. It took 50 years to get people to forget conservative responsibility for the Great Depression, but it happened and their culpability for this current clusterfuck will be forgotten as well
Still it's fun to watch the wheels come off. The backstabbing. The infighting. The desperation. I've never been into schadenfreude much, but for this occasion I WILL indulge.
It's kind of like watching a vampire movie where the vampires are in their ascendancy at the beginning and are impossibly confident and arrogant and then the tide turns and they are on the run, mercenary and terrified. (That was a wholly gratuitous vampire reference in honor of John Amato).
I actually was going to write that in my post, but I doubt it will be in my lifetime. That said, they have a solid propaganda machine which is good at blaming dems for everything. We can only hope that our collective memories improve.
How are you, sweetie? Been a while. I always enjoy your posts and have missed you. Quit working so hard (or whatever you are up to) and hang out here more often, eh?
Another way to look at this is that it gave Biden a chance to respond to GOP talking points. She kept teeing them up and he knocked them down every single time. It was brilliant! (on Joe's part, that is)
he remained nonplussed
he will serve the administration well should obama win
When he is good, he is so VERY good. Then he goes out and says something that makes you groan and pull your hair out.
I sent my opinion to WFTV General Manager and Barbara West!
http://www.wftv.com/contact/index.html
This kind of crap must be challenged!
Here's a pictoral essay set to music that sums up their campaign, party, and values. Take a minute (well, actually 3 minutes) and take a look.
If you know anyone who needs a reminder on what this whole election is about, please pass it on.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8gJ_rPHXtk
Ha ha! I actually saw a discussion of this earlier after it came out on Fox! Who is this rightie lady! Boy does she have a one track mind! I thought Biden did quite well answering these stupid questions. It was obvious there was an angle to her questions. I forgot the name of "news show" but they had this Repug. spokeswoman and that Pascatelli lady to counter her dumb arguments. I thought that Pascatelli was a little weaker than I have seen her, altough she made light of the arguments of both the Repug spokesperson and the anchor who just, (of course) agreed with the Repug spokeswoman. On the bottom of the screen were those little idiotic statement boxes with " Will Obama campaign's refusal to do interviews negatively affect media?" or something to that effect. Ahh, the Fox Network. They never cease to amuse!
The obvious response to the inane question about spreading the wealth would have been that while Bush and McCain think it's a good idea to spread the wealth of the middle and lower brackets to the top 1%, Obama thinks that it would be better for the country if the wealth were spread in the other direction.
That woman was a complete tool! I have never heard such idiotic questions asked on an actual news show in my entire life. Sure, I've heard it on Fox, but that's not an actual news network. Her agenda was so completely transparent that she should be labeled a nutcase and have to wear a sign.
You know, this is one more reason why journalism should require a license, and there should be some sort of standard on a medium that calls itself "news". They should be impartial and give equal time to actual representatives of all sides of the issues. So Hannity should not be allowed to call himself a journalist, for example. Same with this idiotic woman. At least Biden did a great job of putting her down.
Her husband, Wade the Media Consultant.
http://bob-da-blogger.blogspot.com/2008/10/ab...
that lady is like a lizard, or demon, or something.
...and I think she snogs xander
think Instead of coming of as snobbish, as in 'how dare you ask these questions' It makes people look bad.
I mean do you hear Palin or McCain saying, is that a real question? You want to know about what? Clothes? Do you think there are more important things at the moment like, the issues? No, you don't hear Palin saying those sorts of things do you?
accusation of marxism can hardly be equated to stupidity.
This interview is a perfect example of when the FCC needs to step in, do its job and revoke that station's license.
Each of these stations is still accountable to THE PUBLIC. That's US. WE OWN THE AIRWAVES.
If enough people write them, they must respond, and they can revoke their license and give it to another company who may be more responsible.
It's one thing to express outrage at the FACTS, as Olberman might do, or to even express your opinions as Limbaugh does.
It's an entirely different situation when a show that is posing as News uses lies and purposely misleading information to smear a candidate.
Make no mistake, this was a smear. Pick your most liberal journalist. Rachel Maddow would never ask McCain, "People equate Bush with Hitler. Does that mean America under you will become a Fascist Dictatorship like Germany?" It's so far from Journalism, this woman ought to have her degree stripped.
"This interview is a perfect example of when the FCC needs to step in, do its job and revoke that station's license."
I almost fell out of my chair laughing at this....
So asking Sarah Palin about her wardrobe is appropriate? lol give me a break.
I can see it now if Obama and Biden were to be elected...'Press conference room' Mr. Vice President, what do you think of (insert question).... Biden response,'Are you kidding me? is that a real question? OK you are out of here, revoke their press pass please'
The comments in the thread on the youtube. I looked last night on this video and it was pure crazy from the right on there.
These people are nuts. Perfect example, look at Brokaw. He merely points out that Reagan raised taxes twice, which is the truth, but they consider that "gotcha" journalism.
And this case of pure smear, essentially calling Obama a Marxist, is fair and balanced to them.
Could you imagine if someone from the "liberal" media asked McCain something like, "You probably recognize this quote, "Fascism should rightly be called Corporatism, as it is the merger of corporate and government power." Now how is it not Fascism if you want to give corporations more tax cuts?"
They'd lose their job and their license to broadcast. This will not go unpunished.
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