Indefinite Detention, Anyone? White House is Drafting New Executive Order
By Susie Madrak Saturday Jun 27, 2009 1:00pm
Maybe this sinking feeling in my gut would go away if anyone in the Obama administration bothered to explain the specifics of why they believe indefinite detention is necessary. How can you be so sure someone is too dangerous to release, and yet not have enough evidence to prosecute them?
The Obama administration, fearing a battle with Congress that could stall plans to close the U.S. prison at Guantanamo Bay, is drafting an executive order that would reassert presidential authority to incarcerate terrorism suspects indefinitely, according to three senior government officials with knowledge of White House deliberations.
Such an order would embrace claims by former president George W. Bush that certain people can be detained without trial for long periods under the laws of war. Obama advisers are concerned that bypassing Congress could place the president on weaker footing before the courts and anger key supporters, the officials said.
After months of internal debate over how to close the facility in Cuba, White House officials are increasingly worried that reaching quick agreement with Congress on a new detention system may be impossible. Several officials said there is concern in the White House that the administration may not be able to close the facility by the president's January deadline.
White House spokesman Ben LaBolt said there is no executive order and that the administration has not decided whether to issue one. But one administration official suggested that the White House was already trying to build support.
"Civil liberties groups have encouraged the administration, that if a prolonged detention system were to be sought, to do it through executive order," the official said. Such an order could be rescinded and would not block later efforts to write legislation, but civil liberties groups generally oppose long-term detention, arguing that detainees should be prosecuted or released.
Big Tent Democrat and Glenn Greenwald reactions here.
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Let us know when you've had enough.
I've already had enough.
Headin' out for a lonnnngggg bike ride to get some fresh air. The stench around here is making me sick.
This is no longer MY country - I don't know what the hell it is -
I'm joining you on your bike ride, I'm headed down to Lake Sammamish
I need to clear my head.
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Suzie,
Better late to catch on than never having had a clue...
... Welcome to the disbelievers club.
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If these people are being detained under the laws of war, then they are protected under the Geneva Conventions and are POWs.
It's disturbing that Obama is refusing to address the war crimes committed by the previous administration. And even worse, he's embracing many of the policies that led to the war crimes in the first place. I'm really starting to hope a viable prez candidate makes an appearance for 2012 because BO is proving to be a major disappointment.
It's easy to feel betrayed by Obama these days. The "change" he promised doesn't seem to be happening.
I had unexpected visitors drop by today and we caught up on everything but politics ... it was a nice break from the depressing news ...
Boosh?
you know some times situations arent as simple as wed like them to be.
business was given a completely free hand and as a result, they looted everything in sight but the Lincoln Memorial and totally destroyed our economy and reputation.
It's simple from where I'm standing. The USA is a rogue nation. It's an Empire operating by capricious fiat; laws mean nothing.
I am soo tired of hearing US politicians talking about the rule of law. It's like the mafia talking about good business practice.
2000 was the official 'start' of the out in the open corporatist coup de tat. It's not like Burma, where at least they know who the perps are. USofBLOODYISRAEL is the name of the rogue non-nation the CORPORATISTSTATES that used to be the United States of America. O-bought-ma is a black-faced Bush, just as much the sock puppet, too.
I'll keep that in mind when and if you are ever thrown into a prison camp and kept there indefinitely. No trial, no access to a lawyer, hell, not even any real evidence of wrongdoing. When that happens, drop us all a line so that we can say "Well gee, cleanse, sometimes things aren't as simple as we'd like them to be. Sucks to be you, "enjoy" your indefinite detention".
The Oligarchs want this sort of thing to be well established for when the crap really hits the fan.
They will not want to have those serfs running around with their homemade guillotines.
subservient Paulson gave them billions, they took it all and stuffed it into their pockets, bought more private jets and had million dollar private bathrooms installed in their executive suites. And the public pays for this.
Paulson was the King.
Mr. Government Sachs himself.
He left Goldman Sachs with a $500 million severance to become
Secretary of the TreasuryKing.Stock options? ;)
Amended: I think I remember reading, that one of their CEO's requested a big payday and Paulson was modest and more favorable to getting stock options as one of his perks. You know, like the lottery... lump sum or over time. That may have a bearing on his performance, all around? Though I would think he'd be required to liquidate the stock prior to going GOV.? :-/
Halliburton, too.
Give them a God Damned Trial.
There has to be something we're not privy too.
He is a Constitutional Scholar. He knows what has to happen.
What is making him lend himself to this decision?
Very disappointing. Simply put, It's not good enough.
a scholar, as in expert.
they took him in a room, closed the blinds, showed him the Zapruder film and asked him if he had any questions.
Rules
...but I think its just cowardice. He knows if he does the right thing, he'll be skewered forever if there is another attack (by muslims. chistian ones don't count for some reason) and lose any ability to do anything for the rest of his presidency.
I think he's being too cerebral and choosing pragmatism over idealism. Which isn't always necessarily bad, except the ideals he's abandoning just happen to be the ones our country are based on.
Shame.
Like this former NY'er?
Richard Dawkins habla con un musulmán
[ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHRkMcVrt2w ](5:07)
Release them.
at least I would have known what I was going to get. Obama is just another politician. I just remembered that on election day 2012 I am going to be too busy to vote.
you could auction off your vote and find out just how worthless it is.
self-deleted by commenter.
this eviceration of habeas corpus and trampling of the constitution is something i would have expected of bush, he was a complete and utter dunce; obama does it with full cognizance. it makes me want to puke.
i truely wish that the progressives in congress somehow find a way to legislatively ram this right up his full cognizance.
I am not saying that Bush was smart, but he knew what he was doing. He played the dunce to throw people off guard. Look what he got away with? Who are the stupid ones?
Americans are not stupid. Apathetic, unwilling to believe your country could be anything but good, but not stupid. You have been misinformed, or not informed at all. If people actually knew the extent of what has been going on, in their name, they would --almost to a person-- recoil in horror. It would start a revolution, and the good name of America would forever be destroyed.
Why don't people know what has been going on? We know. What's holding up the rest of them?
It's sad to say, but this trend is across the modern world. People have a few bucks in their pocket, a shiny car, food in their gut, and they just don't care what happens to the rest. I see it here in Korea. I see it in Canada.
"The system" is to give us just enough goodies to keep our eyes and mouths shut, and it seems to work.
Welcome to my nightmare
I think you're gonna like it
I think you're gonna feel... you belong
A nocturnal vacation
Unnecessary sedation
You want to feel at home 'cause you belong
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQ8Z5fjqOYs
Maybe this sinking feeling in my gut would go away if anyone in the Obama administration bothered to explain the specifics of why they believe indefinite detention is necessary.
__________________________________________________________________
Maybe someone's been really really naughty...
I know I have.
Maude Flanders for Dominatrix 2012!!!
not 'terrorists'. Very punctilious. Makes it sound a bit like rule of law.
"Alleged" sounds like rule of law. "Suspected" just sounds like they can call them a terrorist without actually calling them a terrorist.
"suspected" anything.
KOS - Feingold calls Obama Out on Indefinite Detention, Sets Hearings
My primary concern, however, relates to your reference to the possibility of indefinite detention without trial for certain detainees.
[ http://feingold.senate.gov/pdf/ltr_obama_0522... ]
In comparison... Jun 26 2009, 6:02 pm by Marc Ambinder
Snip - The Washington Post and Pro-Publica [ed note: collaboration!] report that the White House counsel's office has drafted an executive order authorizing -- or, rather, asserting, that the President has the inherent authority to detain certain classes of people indefinitely.
[ http://politics.theatlantic.com/2009/06/obama... ]
How about those spouting admonitions to kill people they disagree with on public airwaves--are they among the classes?
These people can't be tried because evidence against them is TAINTED by the means with which it was obtained.
They can't be released because about half of them would probably crawl over the imaginary wall on our southern border, find a big butcher knife, and take off "W's" head.
They can't be REDACTED anyplace... because nobody else in the world wants them either.
Bush and Cheney created this never-ending nightmare. Cheney speaks out because he, obviously, is TERRIFIED of these people. So I say solve the problem THIS WAY:
Rent two big houses... one in the Dallas neighborhood where Bush lives... the other next to the undisclosed location where Cheney hides... and move all the detainees there.
This a little less black and white than your post would suggest. If you're talking about combatants captured in the field than ,of course you do detain them until the conflict is resolved. The rules of war apply. People picked up in other situations where doubts about their status exist should be entitled to the same rights as anyone else. Where a fair trial with untainted evidence is impossible than you bite the bullet and repatriate them to their homes.
declare a state of war, I do not believe they have done so - ergo, these people are simply being detained outside the bounds of any decent human conduct. They must be formally charged, and MUST be tried in accordance with the LAWS of the U.S. in a court of law - NOT a frik'n military tribunal!!! And a verdict brought down. If we are unable to do so, we are no better than the tinpot dictators we try to claim moral superiority over. - Now I'm going for my looong bike ride - C ya
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Q U E S T I O N:
If the U.S. thinks it can detain ANYONE for life, WITHOUT CHARGES and a TRIAL, then who can they NOT detain similarly so?
When Great Britain did this, it was call TYRANNY, and America was born...
... Now that America wants to be like Mother England, what shall the "HOMELAND" be called?
.
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it is der "FATHERLAND!" I SO loathe the term "homeland" or other language comparative to nazi verbiage. TSA? Nein it is the Volksstatspolizei!! Spit-tuuie on all of it. ~ all of it
the Italian,German and Japanese POW's from the second world war.Were they tried for making war on the US?
They were POW's and treated much better than the detainees in US gulags these days.
And there was a definable war at the time as well, one that had an end that could be declared.
But these days the "war on terror" is forever, just like the war on drugs so anyone swept up is also going to be detained forever.
The US is disappearing people like the 3rd world banana republic's it propped up in the middle of the 20th century.
DRINK!!!
Never did get to go on the damn bike ride. Went to the bike joint to fill the tires and...surprise!!, another Berkshires downpour with lightning and thunder!
Now here I am reading all this depressing stuff...
Seriously, time for some Scotch on the rocks....4 fingers!
Thunderstorms are pretty cool, just don't get all maudlin. Bottoms up Abby.
deserve it. Funny to think Obama's fallen so far so fast. Wonder what he and Bush talked about in that meeting they had at the airport... .
Has been for a very long time.
You wish the US was more like the UK these days.
when Bush-Cheney & Company and Wall Street do not get punished for any of the crimes they have clearly committed?
"Why should anyone obey any laws in this country"
Because when you are not Bush-Cheney & Company and Wall Street et al, they put the boots to you and destroy your life.
And anarchy.
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It's just that right now they're parked under the teevee.
a soldier in the field. If they take prisoners in combat those prisoners must be tried? Nonsense. They must be treated correctly as prisoners of war. Letting them go isn't an option. I suspect if you told soldiers anywhere in the world that is what was going to happen exactly zero prisoners would be taken.
Please define who the USA has actually declared war on. Is it every citizen of the planet? A "war on terror" is kind of vague/ambiguous.
Saying something is a war doesn't make it a war.
doesn't make the people shooting at and blowing up your soldiers just criminals.
... it makes our soldiers the criminals.
Under strict international law, US forces entered Iraq illegally, ergo... who is the criminal there? People defending their homes, or the invading forces of a country that did not even bother to declare war so that they were not held responsible to the Geneva Convention?
The invasion of Iraq was illegal under US and international law, and I'm not sure now that the invasion of Afghanistan was lawful either, since the FBI could find no evidence that Osama bin Laden had anything at all to do with 911.
So the US takes prisoners in two unlawful military actions, detains them for years and years, tortures and murders them through torture, and intends to keep them under lock and key for many more years, without charges, evidence of crimes, or trials?
Americans are blind to the brutality and cruelty of US government actions and the international rage they engender, and sooner or later America will have to pay the piper.
The vast majority of detainees never even fired a weapon and were sold to US forces for cash payments.
But then you are just a right wing shill anyway so I shouldn't really expect much more than talking point and lie from you.
...and send the detainees back to their home countries?
I'm picturing all of the executions that would follow in Saudi Arabia, Syria, Jordan, Egypt...Maybe the Yemeni nationals would be okay.
what you and many other people are suggesting. If you use the criminal justice standards in these cases then everyone you capture should be charged with either murder or attempted murder. Those are capital offenses. Be careful what you wish for.
The problem, and the plan-- I might add (no accident)-- was to call it a "war on terror" so there are no clear rules of conduct.
In an ordinary war, it is normal to have POWs. At the end of the war decisions are made in these matters, and war crimes trials may be held.
The problem is this "war" is designed to have no end. It is not even defined. Just anyone who would do harm to the USA. (Evermore?) That's a very broad definition for an enemy combatant.
... your strawmen keep on coming, eh?
The US screwed the pooch on this one, since the detainees were held illegally, they have to be released. Too bad, maybe next time the forces of democracy and the American way should bother to read up on the laws of international engagement before going all cowboy on the rest of the world.
Has turned out to be a war WITH drugs...
especially for the CIA.
and heroin, the CIA was the main manufacturer of LSD in the 60s. Apparently they thought it was going to fry the brains of those pesky beatniks. Didn't quite work out that way. Fortunately for them, coke and heroin are still pretty popular. In related news, the US has decided to stop trying to prevent poppy cultivation in Afghanistan; the farmers there make too much money off it.
The warlords who traffic it out of the country make all the money. There was a C&L post about, I dunno, a year ago or so that described a plan to plant pomegranete. The soil is right for it, and the profits would actually go to the farmers.
Here.
Page not found
The requested page could not be found.
Here.
♥
That's kind of funny Peter. Have you seen the USA lately?
If rules of war apply, then torture is punishable, possibly by death.
Until the "conflict is over," like the war on drugs?? What end??? It's FOREVER.
It is actually quite an ethical dilemma. The world seems to have evolved past what we used to think of as conventional war. Neither the military justice system nor the criminal justice system is prepared to deal with the situation. Let me reverse the question. Has the use of the conventional criminal justice system done anything to effectively deal with the endless war on drugs? Would routing combatant detainees through the system achieve better results? My point is that simple solutions don't work. I don't think there is a simple solution.
You're trying to rationalize a situation which defies rational explanation.
An "attack on the USA" (??) has morphed into the USA having supreme authority to do whatever it wants to any person, group, state, or country, on the planet.
That's simply (international) tyranny of power and military might.
The foolish excursion into Iraq notwithstanding, the fight in Afghanistan is against people who harbored terrorists and assisted them in attacking the US. Do you think that should go unanswered? I think not. That is a very dangerous situation. Allowing such extremists to expand their influence into a nuclear armed Pakistan is not an option.
The thing is, 6 years after the invasion of Iraq, there are still no clear guidelines of conduct, and that is just unacceptable.
Carte blanche, a blank cheque, a rogue state.
For citizens of other countries, the USA looks just as extremist as any terrorist. You've given yourselves the right to go anywhere and kill anyone.
Do you think killing innocent Pakistanis with drones should go unanswered.
It's time to make some clear guidelines.
I concur. No torture, Very good start. Stopping use of drones for bombardment. Good next move.
Right. America does have a right to protect itself. No one would argue that. It's the methods being used. It's very open-ended and without any clear definitions.
sick, twisted and weird that kids sitting at a base in Nevada, playing what looks like a video game, can turn people in another country to red mist and body parts...... time to vomit
Al Qaeda is still a threat. We cannot pretend somehow that because Barack Hussein Obama got elected as president, suddenly everything is going to be OK.
-Barack Obama
----------------------------------------------------------
I don't oppose all wars. What I am opposed to is a dumb war. What I am opposed to is a rash war.
-Barack Obama
Why are we still in Afghanistan? Bin Laden isn't there. The Taliban isn't there. This is just a ploy to continue the fallacy of the "war on terror." We could pay for health reform with all the money being stolen from us in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Taliban is resurgent, al-Qaida increasing attacks: Obama
27 Jun 2009, 0757 hrs IST, PTI
Snip - WASHINGTON: US President Barack Obama has said that Taliban is "resurgent" and al-Qaida has intensified its attacks from the Afghan-Pak border
which has become a safe haven for them.
[ http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/US/Taliban... ]
Speaking of medical... If you were a Doctor, would would you just walkout in the middle of a surge/ry ;)
Do you think we're after "Bin Laden"? I respect your concern and there is no need to reply... unless you would feel better, having the last word(s), I understand. Thank you for your time...
This happened this past Tuesday:
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2009/jun2009/pak...
"Land of the free, home of the BRAVE"???
We murder innocent men, women and children from thousands of miles away with the push of a video game button and this is supposed to be BRAVE??
And then we wonder why they hate us and there is so much BLOWBACK against us???
What ever happened to winning hearts and minds??
What have we become? And why isn't Obama trying to set things right?
Why is he "going along to get along"?
for restricting the use of drones to intelligence gathering and minimizing or eliminating the use of aerial bombardment.It is no way to make friends and influence people.
And that is my point, but these things HAVE NOT BEEN DONE. In absence of such, the USA is acting a rogue nation with ultimate authority over every living human being on the planet.
I have no doubt that the president is subject to some pressure from his military advisers to continue the policy of using bombing as a force protection strategy. At some point, no doubt, this will be seen as a counter effective strategy. At this point the president will have to decide to abandon bombing (except tactical combat support) and go in close. That means fewer civilian casualties and more American ones. Easy decisions you see.
No one ever said these things are easy.
America somehow made a HUGE success of itself by following the rules for over 200 years. That's how you gained world dominance, because the people of the world believed you had the right way. Not so much anymore.
What you are risking now is replacing a moral authority and goodness with nothing but military might. That sucks. One by one the world is turning its back on America.
But I am also a student of US history and frankly an admirer of America. There have been many deplorable incidents in that history but also moments of true greatness. I think we are coming out of a kind of dark time and I hope for better days ahead. I post the arguments I do because I think many people do not appreciate how difficult are some of the decisions that a president must make. I do not agree with all that Obama has done but I think he has made a good start.
I hear you. I used to believe such things myself, and much of it was true. Not no more. Present facts belie that history.
You're good as long as you stay good, but once you go bad, you're bad.
Time used to be that I said, "If someone has to be the big kid on the block (planet), then America, even with all it's warts and imperfections is still my choice." Now I'm not so sure.
I do have faith. I am an eternal optimist, but some things have got to give. I believe in the citizens of the USA, and wish they would take their power back. Time is running out.
To me the glass is neither half full nor half empty. It is just twice the size it needs to be. I like to think of myself as a realist and one of the things I long ago realized is that there is no easy solution to intractable problems. Obama has a bagful of those. I will reserve judgment until at least half his term is done.
In general, I quite like Obama. I think we're seeing there are a lot of powerful people in the USA. I'm not sure I would still call it the democracy I once believed it to be. It seems these powerful people have as much power as government itslef, but they are not bound by any laws or treaties. They are (essentially) anonymous, acting behind the scenes.
contrast to our own systems which places nearly all power in the PMO. Every party laments that 'til they're running the show. You have to admit the US is a damned fascinating place or you wouldn't be here.
Interesting and, presently, frightening: not dissimilar to a tornado.
I think the Roman Empire is fascinating; without equal. Especially The Games, and the unparalleled decadence.
One thing I will say, in a purely selfish vein, is it is far more interesting to be alive in the decline of an Empire than at it's inception. All that Puritan, goody-two-shoes crap, nauseates me. Is that licentious?
I know it sucks and it's hard to watch and accept. I don't think Canada is behaving any better: we seem to be your supportive, or silent, allies in all of this. So are many nations.
My upset is not directed solely at America. I am saddened by the state we've all let ourselves slip into. Apathy: letting crooks run our governments for profits. Not caring about our fellow citizens on the planet. People, all over, cowering in fear and stifling their voices in democracy. I see it many places I go.
...and what was the ultimate result of Arc Light in Viet 'fing Nam?????
I made a comment similar to yours above. The interface for the Predators (what an asinine name) looks intentionally like a video game. The kid/GI's love it, because after a shift, turning humans into red mist and body parts, they go home to their families. It is like the ultimate 1st person shooter f'ing video game! It is so damn sick I have no words. Ummm what was the blow-back from the GD nazis launching their UAV's (buzz bombs) at the Brits????????? Sick - just damn sick
The offical (White House) was reacting to "a report by the Washington Post" that said the Obama administration "HAS" drafted an executive order that would reassert presidential authority to incarcerate terrorism suspects indefinitely." Notice the word "HAS?"
"If the White House "cannot agree" with lawmakers opposed to bringing what are "allegedly" the most dangerous terror suspects to US soil, and executive order issued by the president "MAY BE ONE OPTION" to establish a new detention system." Notice the words "MAY BE ONE OPTION?" As found at Huffington Post today! But what else would you expect the Washington Post to throw out there to keep the fear ramped up with you pissants?
So folks, it's ok now you can crawl out from under your beds! Everytime someone says Obama has done this or that, google it and find out what is really happening! No wonder this country elected Bush twice!
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Nameplates, underwear, and the White House dog...
... "CHANGE" completed!
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Obama = CIA operative?
Susie
I'm sure that somebody is actually afraid of what the detainees innocent of any prosecutable crimes might do upon release, that THIS is where their heads are, not on making sure that the Supreme Court ruling made last year is upheld. Not on being an honorable and law-abiding nation.
The current administration is making me nearly as sick as the last one. What has the Obama administration done to date that is clear and clean, entirely separate from the GW Bush administration agenda, and good for America?
It's hard to be openly critical of the Obama agenda if you supported and voted for him, as I did, but I'm wondering if he isn't a conservative in Democratic clothing.
most people in america still can't wrap their minds around the extent to which the federal gov't has been hijacked; most people in america still can't wrap their minds around just how amoral and animalistic the hijackers really are.
It's like when you finally realize your father is really a creep. That person you want to love, who should be a paragon of virtue, but just isn't.
(Not that that has happened to me, but I'm sure we can all imagine such.)
"What has the Obama administration done to date that is clear and clean, entirely separate from the GW Bush administration agenda, and good for America?"
MEDICINE
A New Stem Cell Era
Scientists cheer as President Obama ends restrictions on research.
Snip - Stem-cell researchers around the country are celebrating President Obama's decision to reverse restrictions on embyronic stem-cell research, a move they say could lead to dramatic advances in the understanding and treatment of conditions like diabetes, heart disease and Alzheimer's. For years, scientists have been frustrated by the restrictions imposed by President George W. Bush in 2001. → → → That seems different?
By Claudia Kalb | Newsweek Web Exclusive
Mar 9, 2009
[ http://www.newsweek.com/id/188454 ]
Mission accomplished. Where's the flight suit?
"Religion flies planes into buildings...
...Science flies humans to the moon" ♥
that was a good move, to change the policy by fiat, but if that's all you have, given the urgent issues he's failing to resolve and furthermore his upholding the Bush agenda, I'm nothing if not underwhelmed by Obama's actions.
I remember back in the day arguing heatedly with Americans on the Virtual Irish pub's politics board over this kind of thing - discussing the Brits' behaviour in N. Ireland. It seems so quaint now how they'd say the US would never torture people like the Brits did - all that hooding and loud music, tsk, tsk and don't get them started over internment, man, the sacred US constitution forbids it. I often wonder how those people have fared watching "Long Kesh on the Potomac" dash all their beliefs one by one.
You don't blame the wolf. You don't blame the chickens. You blame the farmer for leaving the door to the coop open. I continue to blame Pelosi for stonewalling on impeachment. We have the elected dictatorship the craven fool ran defense to create.
One that shows me the way from Pelosi-Leaves-Impeachment-On-The-Table to Perfect World. Please be specific: Don't forget to show the roadblocks and how to bypass them.
A former president cannot be impeached. He needs to be arrested for war crimes.
And I think that there are probably some Federal criminal charges that could probably be brought against Bush and Cheney, too.
But I'm not the one who raised the moot point. Had smchris decided to entertain a discussion about this, I would have eventually come to this point: It just ain't that simple. Had Buscho been impeached and removed from office, it would have had little to no effect on the very gray legal issue over whether the detainees should be viewed as P.O.W.s or criminal defendants; impeachment or war crimes trial wouldn't have addressed whether we owe the people of Iraq any sort of security by committing even the most highly disciplined US troops; impeachment or war crimes trials would not have directly forced Congress to take back it's power by legislating away the ability of any US President to rule by executive order alone.
The idea that a trial or two will address the difficulties we face as a nation is magical thinking. It's lazy to think that we can address these difficulties without many, many struggles. It's irresponsible to think we can lay the responsibilities of everything that is wrong on the shoulders of 536 or fewer people.
You want things to change, you can't just screech about it. You've got to do something about it. It's becoming painfully obvious that our votes alone ain't cutting it. So stop screeching about it and organize boycotts. Organize general strikes. SHUT IT DOWN. But remember, no matter how peaceful your methods are, there will be pain and sacrifice involved.
Have you organized any boycotts or strikes yet? Tell me about them? Or tell me about those you are planning. "Screeching" on the internet is a very useful method of spreading information. Do you think that any corporate media will allow this information, these facts to be disseminated through them? You talk a lot, let's have a look at what you've done. Or, propose something specific. There's a phrase, "Put up or..."something.
I'm more than sure they covered that. And repeating it here, for about the 41,000th time, ain't really breaking news. And, imo, it was rather myopic to criticize her when there was no way the Senate was going to convict. So, in this case, screeching isn't useful at all.
And , yeah, I'm ready to put up right now. Not a lot of issues that get me really impassioned right now but for the DOMA thing. My kid's mom and her wife deserve the rights, including marriage, as everyone else. I keep hearing from LGBT rights activists talking about not voting for Obama because he won't issue an executive order(which could be overturned by the next administration), but I don't hear them pressuring Congress to actually change the law. So I came up with this idea to put pressure on everyone involved with denying rights to my friends: Sit-in at the Mormon Tabernacle in SLC. Sit-in at every church in the country by everyone who supports the LGBT movement. Interrupt their services, then fill up their jails and courtrooms. I'll be there.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090627/wl_afp/u...
Fri Jun 26, 10:42 pm ET
WASHINGTON (AFP) – The White House dismissed reports that it has drafted an executive order allowing indefinite detention in the United States of some of the top terror suspects at Guantanamo Bay.
An administration official told AFP that no such draft order existed, though internal deliberations were taking place on how to deal with those inmates who could not be released or tried in civilian courts.
The source said that a task force established by the president was not due to present its recommendations until July, and that the administration would then work with Congress to find a solution to the conundrum.
The official was reacting to a report by The Washington Post that said the Obama administration "has drafted an executive order that would reassert presidential authority to incarcerate terrorism suspects indefinitely."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090627/wl_afp/u...
http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/06/27/white-...
This story is bogus like MANY of the other right wing initiated stories Susie keeps getting all exciting about without bothering to check to see if there's another source. And no, another story referencing the exact same source is not another source - it's the f*cking echo chamber that Chicken Little Susie has become part of!
and it says the same thing that this post by Susie says. So WTF is your point other then attacking Susie?
it does NOT say the same thing as Susie's posted story. That is just not true.
The Obama administration is NOT "drafting an executive order that would reassert presidential authority to incarcerate terrorism suspects indefinitely,"
And the BS story is based based on anonymous sourced called "officials with knowledge of White House deliberations" . Last time we got one of these bs stories from Susie's with the anonymous in the know "government officials" they turned out to be from the Bush administration!
The story I linked and the one mentioned above at Yahoo both show that the story posted is complete made up bs. So WTF is YOUR point except trying to throw up a smoke screen?
are refuted by anon sources at Raw Story.
Good job, tyke! Very thuggy of you to hold Susie to a higher standard than yourself.
[/snark].
To see what kind of reaction they'll get if they go ahead with a specific plan. If there's enough of an uproar, they get to say the original leak wasn't accurate.
I thought this was understood by everyone. This is why it's important to raise a stink over the leaked stories.
Do you see the irony there?
The failure of Obama to confront the moral issues of our time! First torture, then hebeas corpus, foreign occupation/adventures, then either the Geneva accords or our own Constitution. This what happens when a team of attorneys get drunk on power and kow tow to the biggies (same deal as Bush but with a slightly different flavor). ------------------------------------------------------------------
Congrats Barry, you got the stem cells going, and the economies collapse delayed a year. Is that all you've got?
of you Red State people have dropped in. Welcome.
writes up some fake laws, and accidentally leaves them laying around, and a secretary submits them the next day. Then Congress passes them.
Some D.C. bus schedule accidentally got included in the pile and is soon to become law. That'll make 'em run on time.
"How can you be so sure someone is too dangerous to release, and yet not have enough evidence to prosecute them?"
You can't and that is why it is illegal in this country no matter what any President says whether his name is Bush or Obama.
Obama is not saying this regardless of what a bogus story from anonymous non white house "officials" say.
your story is dismissed by anonymous officials. Same standard. If Susie's is bs, so is your dismissal of her story
... the executive order has not been made yet official by the White House, has it?
Here's an article, through HuffPo. Washington (AFP)
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/...
Much ado about nothing.
Who knows. You gotta watch these guys. Better it's on the table than reading about it once it's signed.
Could it be? Some things are too dangerous to touch. What kind of testimony could come out publically? We'd rather wreck the great Am. constitution first / sell out our soul.
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