Nightline: One of Four Female College Students Will Be Raped Before Graduating
Megan Wright committed suicide after an alleged gang rape.I really wish that more media outlets stressed the biggest risk factor behind many college rapes: Alcohol. Students away from home for the first time, pushing alcohol consumption far beyond safe limits (an ER nurse at the University of Penn's ER told me students are regularly dumped at the front door with acute alcohol poisoning) are impairing their own judgment -- and trusting in other people whose judgment is also impaired.
That's why college rapes are such a big problem:
As college students gear up once again to taste the sweet freedom of the college campus, there's one thing they're not likely not focusing on: the probability that one out of four female college students will be raped before receiving a diploma.
A recent study from the Department of Justice estimated that 25 percent of college women will be victims of rape or attempted rape before they graduate within a four-year college period, and that women between the ages of 16 to 24 will experience rape at a rate that's four times higher than the assault rate of all women.
Such was seemingly the case of Megan Wright, a 19-year-old from New Jersey. Wright was wrapping up her freshman year in May 2006 at Dominican College, a small Catholic school in Orangeburg, N.Y., about an hour away from New York City, when she was allegedly gang raped on its campus. She committed suicide before the year ended.
Her mother, Cindy McGrath, is suing Dominican, claiming that the college failed to conduct a proper investigation into her daughter's assault, and thereby violated Title IX of the Civil Rights Act, which guarantees equal access to education.
The lawsuit also alleges that Dominican violated the law by not accurately disclosing the number of sexual assaults reported on its campus.
Attorney Gloria Allred, who has represented parties in several high-profile discrimination cases, is representing McGrath.
"A victim who reports a sexual assault to a college, which is receiving federal funds, has a right to expect, under the law, that that college will conduct a fair, thorough investigation," Allred said. "We take very seriously a college's duty, and we want it enforced, and when they violate it there are real consequences."
A good start at preventing these crimes would be to crack down on the underage drinking.
Being female means you're "ASKING FOR IT!" Lock the chauvinist pigs up and fling the key!
Publicans always blaming the victim.
And regarding the underage drinking, shouldn't we instead focus on changing American mentality towards alcohol? I think that would go further than trying to prevent people from drinking.
on being, I think, the only person in this 89 comment-long discussion to mention Republicans.
Fuckin Christ, leave it at the door.
Aw. The poor, repressed and victimized republicans huh?
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
*
"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui
You wouldn't leave your car unlocked in a bad neighborhood, why would you send your daughter off to a potentially dangerous environment unprotected? Make them out of some comfortable but durable space age fabric and slap a lock on that sucker. It might not be 100% effective, but it may make some young women think about the potential dangers of Campus life.
Comfy, washalble space-age material--and hey, get sports teams to put their logos on them!--with locks. Nothing to object to about that. Cut it off at the source, so to speak.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUtdKm6lERQ
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Deleted by poster.
Didn't Sharron Angle say "young rape victims should just make the best of a bad situation"?
I guess this girl wasn't listening. :(
* There are two types of Republicans: millionaires and suckers.
"Mugsy's Rap Sheet": Recording history for those who seek to rewrite it.
Turn lemons into lemonade.
In the sense, I'm questioning its credibility. Not to discount the problem but the number just seems incredibly high. My first thought is to look into the definition of "attempted rape". This is coming form the DOJ and I'm not a lawyer. Is the term firmly defined?
So my choice is between spineless and evil?
follow the links. Go to the Nightline promo. Follow the link to the study. Read the study.
It is bullshit. It is also not recent. 1996. Their reprots of "victimization were 10 times that of a companion study. Both were federally funded. None was conducted by the DOJ.
“Why would anyone with a functioning brain believe this guy?”
Some guy with an eating disorder
...I'm not inclined to dispute those statistics, not when I consider the statistics for child sexual abuse. It's estimated that as many as one out of every four girls is sexually abused here in the United States before the age of eighteen (meaning before most of them go off to college). Many girls who were sexually abused as children suffer from very low self-worth (which shouldn't be any surprise). It's not impossible that low self-worth encourages them to drink to excess and/or binge drink in an attempt to "drown their sorrows" -- indeed, problems with drugs and/or alcohol is actually fairly common among survivors of sexual abuse.
Never trust anyone who insists that patriotism requires you to blindfold yourself with the flag.
Maybe this is heresy, but I think the problem isn't underage drinking. That's prohibition thinking. The fact is these unsupervised young adults are going to be experimenting. No one is going to stop them. "Cracking down on underage drinking" will more likely encourage the kind of irresponsible binge drinking that takes place on college campuses -- and has taken place for decades now.
How about instead of the usual "Just Say No (Alcohol)" approach, try something different: Teach these young adults how to drink responsibly. How to set rules for themselves. Learn the value of the buddy system while at parties. Have safe transportation available should they do drink.
Frankly, the whole age 21 for alcohol is and has been nuts, ever since the age of emancipation, voting, and eligibility to join the armed forces has been set to 18. For three years, these young men and women are legally considered adults -- except for one detail: alcohol. Does that seem right?
But seriously: When has Prohibition ever worked?
"A good start at preventing these crimes would be to crack down on the underage drinking."
It's alcohol abuse that is the problem, not underage drinking. In fact I would suggest that having the drinking be 21, only intensifies the chances that people will abuse alcohol, because drinking is seen as this unattainable, yet hugely attractive goal. The drinking age in Canada is 18 or 19, depending on where you live, and there is no way that 25% of women in college will experience rape or attempted rape. Just being respectful of women is part of it. I've lived in countries with no real drinking age, and I've never heard a number like 25%.
Because it's people who equate having a good time with getting shit-faced are the ones at highest risk.
A former award-winning journalist and lifelong class warrior, keeping a jaundiced eye on the Washington elite.
I attended a military college in Victoria, B.C. in the early 90s. In those days our school would sail against American northwestern universities (PU, WWU).
It always amazed us Canadian military types how the system worked stateside. Everyone drank, of course, but unlike in Canada where we would be drinking at licensed bars in the U.S. the drinking would take place in unsupervised house-party type situations where absolutely no one was in a position of responsibility and absolutely no one was sober. Terrible terrible system.
It was doubly bizarre, as Becca states, when we'd run into young American military members. What a strange message they were being sent: "You're OK to pilot a multi million dollar death-dealing machine for your country but we don't think you're ready for the awesome responsibility of beer."
Lower the drinking age.
JDM
The military age thing is different than the drinking age limit. For the military, IMO, it really is about the draft. It is far easier to get 18 year olds to go to war than it is to get a 21 year old who may have a little bit more expereince and knowledge and self-awareness to allow themselves to get roped into iffy situations like Viet Nam.
Now, I do agree that if 18 year olds can get drafted than they should be able to vote (remember, during much of America's involvement in Viet Nam the voting age was 21).
Drinking on the other hand probably should be illegal until someone reaches the age of 25 - although that's still no assurance that they will drink responsibly and not hurt other people because of their stupidity. But at least the chances would be greater than it would be for 18 year olds. Frankly, I think people should have to present ID and pass an intelligence test to be able to buy alcohol. Alcohol is the number ! drug problem in the world by far and everyone treats it like it's nothing. If people were honest about it and number of people who have been adversely affected by alcohol would be found to be stunning. Colleges, and in the bigger picture society, are doing no one a favor by turning a blind eye to this problem.
" Drinking on the other hand probably should be illegal until someone reaches the age of 25 "
That's just silly.
I took my first legal drink at 18, the same year I was entitled to vote and 2 years after I gained the right to take a driver's test. My friends and I had already had our share of drunken debauches (or what passes for a debauch when you're 17). We'd sneak beer into the dorm from time to time, but we mostly drank at campus pubs, where a reasonable semblance of common-sense social order was observed.
JDM is absolutely right. Young people will drink regardless of what the law says. It is far, far better for them to do it legally than to go booze-crazy away from the watchful eyes of adults.
based on what I've seen and my own actions. When I was 13, nothing made me want to smoke pot more than all the newspaper articles on how bad it was. Alcohol, I grew up in a fairly lax environment and I could split a beer with dad or have a bit of wine with dinner, as a small child. Mom's dad and my dad were alcoholics, but I knew that danger, that if it was abused, you'd have to stop drinking forever. I decided when I was about 12 that I never wanted to have to say that I couldn't never drink again. I have been too drunk on a couple of occasions and way way way too drunk about 3 times, and lucky to have survived that.
But if I'd been cracked down on, I think it would have become that easily attainable forbidden thing I had to have.
me-oww!
Making some societal changes and teaching young men that women are persons, instead of bodies which they deserve to possess at any time they want, by any method, because they're male and thereby promoting a rape supporting culture.
And remembering, as this post does not, that women are raped by men (90% of sexual assaults are male-against-female). Women do not "get themselves" raped. These young women were raped because they had the great misfortune to be in the presence of a rapist. Alcohol makes it easier for male predators to attack, but that doesn't change that women get raped because men rape them, not because they "asked for it."
As for the stats, RAINN says 1 in 6 US women will be raped, based on current FBI crime data and the FBI says their numbers are low because of the massive under-reporting of rape. Globally the rate is estimated to be 1 in 4, so I have no problem believing these numbers.
And if you think being a victim of attempted rape is somehow not disturbing enough to "count" compared to experiencing a completed assault, boy are you an idiot.
It would go a long way to start teaching both men and women that people who are impaired can't consent to having sex. How could someone who is severely impaired have the judgement to determine whether or not they want to be sexually involved?
As a culture we joke about and condone getting someone drunk enough to have sex with (drunk bridesmaides, college girls, frat parties, girls gone wild, jokes about hooking up at bar close). The thought that it's all fun and games to take advantage of drunk girls is sick and pervasive in our culture. It has very little to do with how old you are when you have the drinks.
I'm by far no longer an underage college student but I was raped not long ago after a night of heavy drinking. I hadn't gone out drinking in quite some time and after one or two my judgement about how much I could or should have was impaired. My tolerance was way lower, but I couldn't tell. I blacked out, and I got raped.
I hope you are taking good care of yourself right now.
"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui
backwards in our lives to avoid rape and assault, and more driving home the point in men's *not to rape* and not to tolerate sexism. Women already do so much to avoid it in general, so it's time the focus to falls to men.
And yes, I agree very much with your last statement, especially because while I am a survivor of childhood rape, I also went through an assault/attempted gang rape three months before I started college. It was terrifying precisely because I had no way of knowing if it would escalate further, and especially because others knew what what was happening, and no one would help.
"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui
It is totally disgusting the way that western, non-Islamic countries abuse their women.
We really should go to war against them and force them to do better. ;)
/
>25 percent of college women will be victims of rape or attempted rape<
Which is it? How does it break down? 'Rape' and 'attempted rape' are two very different things.
One is a clear cut felony. The other is very subject to interpretation.
Rape...and attempted rape too. And when people want to split hairs on something that is simply all around horrible.
"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui
I guess inaccuracy, and jumbled thinking, are good things when applied to rape? We all lose when we try to win a debate by smearing our argument with bullshit to make it smell stronger. Rape is a terrible problem in and of itself. It does not need exaggeration.
very much.
"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui
tidy little arguement. It's a real experience that many real women have had and in some cases take quite a while to recover from.
"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui
What the hell is attempted rape?
It needs definition. I'll take a shot, and would love to see engaged comment.
One definition of rape might be 'sexual penetration accomplished against the priorly expressed will of the penetrated party.' I would also include any other sexual act that is actually accomplished against the priorly expressed will of the victim including, but not limited to, oral and digital stimulation, and the use of a foreign object. In short, it is a sexual act which is committed against the priorly expressed will of the victim under circumstances where the victim is restrained or otherwise has their freedom to control access to their body or ability to leave limited.
'Attempted rape' is what?
Perhaps one definition of attempted rape might be 'an unsuccessful attempt to sexually penetrate a person against the priorly expressed will of the penetrated party.' It would also include any other sexual act that is unsuccessfully attempted over the priorly expressed objection of the victim including, but not limited to, oral and digital stimulation, and the use of a foreign object. In short, it is to attempt a sexual act against the priorly expressed will of the victim under circumstances where the victim has expressed objection and/or is restrained or otherwise has their freedom to control access to their body or ability to leave limited.
I wonder what actions it WOULD NOT include?
Actually they're two separate charges, each with their own elements to prove, and graduating upwards in penalties.
And when both parties were drunk at the time, that makes it hard for juries to determine lack of consent with regret after-the-fact, as well as intent on the part of the attacker.
So often rape is the easier charge of the two to define.
Attempted rape generally comes with a relatively lighter sentence. So could you imagine a woman's outrage if she was raped, but the most the prosecutor would charge was attempted rape only?
(I'm not sure, but I think the charges are sometimes stacked on a single incident, so if the prosecutor can't prove rape he can prove attempted rape and put the perp away, but I think that's still more likely the case with something like the attacker is sober, but his target has been dosed with gamma hydroxybutyric acid, ketamine or rohypnol).
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
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Wow. You are a shining example of the New Jersey definition of "scumbag".
Before enlightenment - chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment - chop wood, carry water.
Bishop, you should know that for some women, judiciary errors are not a problem when the person that ends up in jail is a male.
I did not see this coming. No pun intended.
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From the O.E.D.
misandry, n. (Formerly at miso- in Dict.)
(mɪˈsændrɪ)
[ad. Gr. µισανδρία, after misogyny n.: see -y3.]
Hatred of men as a sex.
1909 in Cent. Dict. Suppl. 1946 Scrutiny XIII. 249 In the absence of feminine precedents, she [sc. Beatrice] could do no better than what she very sensibly does do: follow masculine example, and answer to their affected misogyny with the affectation of misandry. 1960 B. Kaye Upper Nankin St. xii. 232 Such women are common in‥Kwangtung Province, where there is a tradition of misandry. 1991 New Art Examiner Apr. 35/3 Although Surrealism could survive the excision of its misogyny, if SisterSerpents shed their ‘misandry’, their ideological fangs would prove artless.
Hence miˈsandrist n., one who hates men, a man-hater (esp. in feminist usage).
1978 Observer 23 Apr. 8/3 The respectable feminist equivalent for the word misogynist is misandrist. 1993 Guardian 3 Dec. ii. 4/5 Strictly speaking, neither misogynist nor misandrist specifies the gender of the person who hates: you should be able to be both female and to hate women.
http://www.singularity2050.com/2010/01/the-mi...
why doncha?
You ask a question.
I answer it for you.
You respond with more bile. Is it an endless supply?
I will finance a few hours of professional counseling for you so long as it is a board certified psychologist, and not aroma therapy. You really need help, poor thing.
But I'm thinking that if you can't figure out where "trying to get lucky" stops and "attempted rape" begins that I don't ever want to be alone in a dark place with you.
I have a clear idea of what I think about the problem. I am asking women what THEY think defines the problem. Thus far, they, and yourself as well, fail to respond with anything sensible. I have been very lucky for a long time and don't play anymore.
Teenagers drink. It was true 50 years ago, and it will be true fifty years from now. All "cracking down" does is drive it underground where those involved will have less protection from the law and may be less likely to seek legal assistance.
Legislating morality has never worked (aside from giving its proponents their desired feelings of superiority). Prohibition hasn't worked with gambling, prostitution, drugs, or alcohol. It has, instead, caused the victims of each to be more isolated and more easily victimized. IMHO
Corruption favors the wealthy.
...on the underage drinking.(!?!?!)
Typical american!!! You can caryy fire arms, but your kids are not allowed to drink til 21(!?)
In Austria, France, Italy, Germany and Switzerland the drinking age for ALL KIND OF LIQUER is 16. and we don´t have a rape problem in our Universities. Maybe because the legal sex-having age is 14...
We Americans are too puritanical to accept your solution. That's why I reiterate that chastity belts offer the greatest protection from assault.
But rape is forcible sex, regardless of the intent. If it's not consensual, freely so, then it's rape. The drinking law is fine. 14 years old for sexual consent? Not so much. I do not want to see gaggles of 15 year old mothers pushing their illegitimate babies on cheap strollers around the local mall at taxpayers expense. I want to see them in college, even if that is at tax payers expense. Everyone should at least have a chance. Having babies when you're a baby yourself takes that away from you.
Mark me down for being against the forcible rape of women. Of any age. And I have a 21 year-old daughter who attends college in Upstate New York. But Gloria Allred's involvement suggests a possible taint in the validity of the allegations being made. After all, we know just how fairly and graciously she has made her uber-feminist accusations in the past, all the while acting like a modern P.T. Barnum gunning for CNN face time.
When I was 18 years old, the drinking age was 18 in NY State. We drank mostly in bars and clubs, in full view of society. I know women were raped back then, but it feels like it was safer that way than the dorm parties held out of the purview of responsible adults. We should go back to that. The Canadian comments are right.
Republicans like Senator Brownback and Sharon Angle must be cheering at this news. Brownback openly supports gang rape, as do many Republicans.
I think we found the problem...
The same one?
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
unwanted kissing and attempts to feel the respondent up, going back to high school, constituted sexual victimization and inclusion in the 26% "rape" figure. Follow the links kiddies. Mother Supeior Madrak
warns you to be sober while doing so.
“Why would anyone with a functioning brain believe this guy?”
Some guy with an eating disorder
men and especially boys think that kind of behavior is akin to heaven for them, does not make it the same for women and girls. Don't you believe that young girls really do not want to be mauled by young male horn dogs? Men do not get to define what a woman or girl feels and thinks. Step back here, please.
since after 10 years of activism against sexual violence and hearing survivors of sexual victimization of various kinds clearly in pain, clearly suffering, yet thinking they don't have the "right" to name what happened to them as rape, attempted rape, sexual assault, or sexual abuse, because of ignorant, insensitive, and ultimately harmful attitudes such as Ricky's and JDBishop's, I feel the anger rising like a fucking volcano right now.
I also hope that no survivors who are reading are triggered by JDBishop's decision to try and split hairs by listing gory details, if you know what I mean.
"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui
Words have meaning. What does 'attempted rape' mean? You want to punish people for doing it. What should they not do?
you are so focused on the legal definitions aspect which not all such statistics do. Some of these statistics include the human element, which you completely ignore. Some forms of sexual assault are not acknowledged by laws, but they exist, and they are devastating. Some statistics include these, including this one I have reason to believe. Was not marital rape legal at one time?
The point of this post is to call attention to the fact that way too many college age women are raped and sexually assaulted. You on the other hand are hellbent on figuring out which of these women's experiences you can dismiss and belittle.
"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui
he wants to know exactly what he can get away with.What an Ass.
FB
99%
say it....
"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui
You want to prosecute people for a 'crime' you refuse to define. Men want to know what you are talking about. Surely you have SOME idea, yes? You suggest that, because I want to see it defined, I want to 'know what I can get away with.' That is an accusation that does not merit a response.It is also the result of a confused and illogical thought process that makes it difficult sensible people to accept you as an equal, and there is a large number of you among both men and women. And, we WANT to accept you as an equal. All you need do is stop jabbering and squealing, and answer the question. How do you define 'attempted rape?'
Your state's name, "criminal law statutes" and "attempted rape." It changes from state to state. Get it?
You may want to accept us as equals, but we will not lower our standards for the likes of you and your fellow traveler. Again with the fucking amateurs.
"All you need do is stop jabbering and squealing, and answer the question." Who do you think you are? I don't think there is a single woman on here that has even the slightest respect for you. I'll bet most of the men don't either. Perhaps all of them. I would tell you to GFY, but that's probably routine for you already.
I should go look it up? You can't report what you think? You do think, sometime, don't you? 'GFY' and '(not thinking) a single woman on here that has any respect for (me)' doesn't cut it among those who read and write. My daughters have graduated from St. Johns and Case Western, Oberlin and Eastman Conservatory, and Princeton. How are you and your daughters doing? Women SHOULD THINK as well as the person they are confronting if they want a place at the table. I ask a question that threatens your point of view (read 'political position') and you jabber and squeal. Then you resent being called out for what you are doing. Not up for the contest, are we?
into describing in detail a type of crime that I have personal experience with. I don't want to, and you have no right to try and force me or badger me into doing so.
I'm putting you on ignore. I may jabber and squeal but I know a jerk when I see one. Goodbye.
"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui
The humanity!
everybody on your ignore list
like that? If you don't want to look up the statute, then try "rape fantasies." Then knock yourself out, preferably with a baseball bat.
BTW, you really should see someone about your anger issues.
Look up the term "violent fantasies".
you start criticizing, cowboy.
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"but we will not lower our standards for the likes of you and your fellow traveler."
yeah the lower standard of actually thinking right?
prosecution, hmm?
Gee, for all my jabbering and squealing, I sure didn't say anything about that. Sounds like a strawman to me.
"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui
one-handed typing to me.
yourself. This study clearly states how they asked questions and defined the answers into category and why their study found "rape" figures 10 times higher than other studies. I find their methodology to be basic bullshit.
Over half of the women in this study would not define incidents which happened to them as rape or attempted rape when they clearly were. The authors of the study went well beyond that in their definition of what consitutes sexual victimization. I am not saying the unwanted attention they define as sexual victimization is not, in fact, sexual victimization. I am saying inflation of their terminology into a flat statment that a quarter of college women are raped before they graduate is bullshit.
“Why would anyone with a functioning brain believe this guy?”
Some guy with an eating disorder
I was after the attitude of some men, and you are not one of them. I know you like to break balls, but I don't think you have any evil intent. I believe that most women see these things based on their own experiences, which only they can define. Rape is more common than reported, as the attitudes by authorities leaves one embarrassed and humiliated. There is much stigma attached to being raped, and so women have learned to just keep it to themselves or other rape victims. JDBishop5, PierreF, and timsmit do have evil intent. Two of the three had enough sense or whatever, to back off having gotten their insults about women into the mix. The other one didn't. He's the dangerous one. I hope he doesn't actually have any daughters.
sometimes, but at the end of the day you're a good person.
"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui
follow the links. It takes a couple of links followed by perusal of one study's footnotes to get to the real report. It was funded by the Clinton DOJ, completed in 2000 and based on surveys conducted in 1996.
http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/182369.pdf
“Why would anyone with a functioning brain believe this guy?”
Some guy with an eating disorder
carefully. And you're right, the study is old and there needs to be more research. I just don't necesarily think any new statistics will be better than these. When you do activism you tend to know of a lot of survivors in and out of activism (of course that's just antedotal).
"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui
it was authorized by the head of DOJ around the time her boss
was folling with cigars but before his deposition. It might have been about the time she was forcibly removing children from grandparents Miami homes but clearly after she authorized the murder of children born of consenting partners in a Waco area compound. It had to have been well after she fathered Chelsea Clinton.
“Why would anyone with a functioning brain believe this guy?”
Some guy with an eating disorder
And they will take the head off nearly anyone, including me - perhaps particularly me, in a straight up intellectual confrontation. You would have yours handed to you, and would deserve it, for twisting my asking for a definition of your terms, and criticizing you for being unwilling (unable?) to respond, except with argumentum ad hominem. (look it up)
Obesa Cantavit
I thought you had gone. It took you that long to find a non sequitur?
you're still babbling.
in your dream of portraying most men as evil but I DO NOT have evil intents. I have a daughter and she is fine thank you. I hope you do not have a son, he will surely suffer from being the eternal guilty and dangerous one.
Yes there is stigma attached to being rape. That doesn't valid the excuse of equating attempted rape to rape.
A philosopher once said:
When discussing with feminists, a man has 3 choices:
-Agreeing
-Remaining silent
-To be portrayed as a fool (I would add "danger" also)
This discussion is a nice example
sexually assaulted before graduating" would have been a less problematic title since the 26% includes different types of sexual victimization. I can understand that.
"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui
.
so that makes how you are degrading them OK.
is forbidden by major religions. Look on the upside of things why doncha?
“Why would anyone with a functioning brain believe this guy?”
Some guy with an eating disorder
directing your comment to. Wait. I figured it out. It;s me. See my return volleys.
the margins (scientific mind at work), using the S. Angle contextual analysis method (how do I keep making myself sound so stupid?), I would say whoever accused him of dolphin flogging or left handed cheeto consumption is the target.
I like to guess. It is irresponsible not to speculate. What goes around...oops. Piggy territory that last one.
“Why would anyone with a functioning brain believe this guy?”
Some guy with an eating disorder
Especially when someone jumps into the middle of a long debate and thinks they know what is going on, but actually does not know, so they just make an ass out of themselves instead of looking pithy like they thought they were going to look.
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Huh?
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For some people, vicarious thrills is all they ever get. Probably with good reason. He can go read the legal definition of "attempted rape" in his state. That's what the google is for.
to their prospective mate and request sexual attention. That would solve all this.
“Why would anyone with a functioning brain believe this guy?”
Some guy with an eating disorder
These are queation from the survey.
a. Prior to school starting in fall 1996, did anyone ever make you have vaginal, oral, or anal intercourse—
including penetrating you with a penis, a finger, or a foreign object—by using force or threatening to
harm you?
I think any person subjected to this treatment is a victim of a crime.
b. Prior to school starting in fall 1996, did anyone ever attempt but not succeed in making you have
vaginal, oral, or anal intercourse—including penetrating you with a penis, a finger, or a foreign object—
by using force or threatening to harm you?
I think any person subjected to this treatment is a victim of a crime.
c. Prior to school starting in fall 1996, have you ever experienced any unwanted or uninvited touching
of a sexual nature, or threats or attempts of such touching, including forced kissing, touching of private
parts, grabbing, fondling, and rubbing up against you in a sexual way?
It is not clear to me that any person subjected to this treatment is a victim of rape or attempted rape.
d. Prior to school starting in fall 1996, has anyone ever tried to make you have sexual intercourse or sexual
contact when you did not want to by making either threats of nonphysical punishment or promises
of reward if you complied sexually?
It is clear to me that any person subjected 'threats of nonphysical punishment' is a victim of attempted rape. What is not clear is what the legal system's response should be to such a circumstance. What criteria should be applied? Age of the offender? Situation? Is the offer of money solicitation, or attempted rape?
Dude, if you can look at a question that describes "unwanted and uninvited touching of a sexual nature" and have any question as to whether this is a problem, you have a serious issue. It goes by different names in different states, but whether you want to call it lewd & lascivious behavior, sexual battery, or attempted rape, it's a crime and damn well should be.
"A good start at preventing these crimes would be to crack down on the underage drinking."
Yeah, because anytime you have a problem, you can usually find a completely ineffective but unpopular scapegoat to attack.
Been attacked by Wahabi terrorists holed up in Afghanistan supported by Saudis and Egyptians? Invade Iraq! Can't find a job because all the corporations have shipped jobs overseas? Attack unions!
Muslims! Illegal aliens! MARIJUANA!!!
Yeah, I don't know how colleges could "crack down" any more than they are. They are pretty much NAZI's about alcohol already. And the problem is not that 1 in 4 college students drinks too much (although they probably do). The problem is that men think that they can rape women. Let's start there.
My impression is that alot of assaults take place at fraternity houses. (I realize that this is just an impression, and good policy should be based on numbers.) Perhaps we should look at the role fraternities have in providing the environment AND THE MINDSET that promote violence toward women.
Treat rape like a crime and prosecute all offenders is another good step. Teach women to unambiguously signal their limits and to turn in men who violate them.
Just an opinion, but I think the fraternity houses are getting a bum rap. The rapes are happening in dorms, in on- and off-campus apartments, in cars and SUVs, you name it.
But I do believe you have a point about colleges already "cracking down" on alcohol pretty massively, which just causes it to go further underground -- and further away from possible supervision. Close down the fraternity houses and co-ed dorms? The parties will and have ended up just moving off-campus -- at which point the college administration can't do jack because they've given up any legal means of exerting a moderating control over what the students are doing.
But then this leads me back to my original point: Legally, these are adults. Sure, if under 21, they're violating the law -- but by time I was 20 (way, way back in '83), I was already living with three other students (mixed male and female, no less), and it was none of the college's damned business if there was liquor in the apartment. (For the record, there was. And there were no rapes in our mostly happy little home.)
Anyway, again, I think this gets back to extending nearly all of the legal rights and responsibilities to these young adults, but for one thing they're going to want to do -- and due to the whole prohibition attitude towards young people drinking, they've never learned or been taught how to moderate their alcohol consumption. Or how important it is to behave with honor, decency and respect, even when inebriated.
The mystique of drinking until you pass out really started to die out for me once I could legally purchase alcohol any time I wanted. Just lower the drinking age to 18 already.
technically it was illegal, but my parents used to allow me to drink a sip of liquor when i was young...learned quickly that i hated the taste
i like bourbon now, but i never binge drank....ever
mostly because i wasnt denied
the only time my parents got upset with me is when i came home stoned....cuz i was 14
that got me grounded for 6 months
i knew that
my parents pounded it into my head
*
"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui
and their big thing was personal space...that everyone had a right not to be touched
only time they broke that rule was when i had to kiss relatives
i remember making out with my first gf, and i guess my hands strayed to far and she said no...i and immediately heard my mom's voice and stopped
*
"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui
"I really wish that more media outlets stressed the biggest risk factor behind many college rapes: Alcohol. "
Susie, Susie, Susie...the media is too busy talking about how Teabaggers want their country back. About how Obama is trampling on the Constitution. They don't have time to talk about reality. It's not good for ratings, A bunch of people dressed in Colonial costumes with racist signs brings viewers in. A single(as in singular) teenage girl who was gang raped and killed herself because of the humiliation doesn't bring in advertisers. Doesn't matter if it's a common, It just doesn't sell.
We are living in a politically hate filled country that nothing matters but blue red and purple. And Black. The tiny life of a middle class college female means nothing to the media as long as we have a population of morons who care only about what their handlers tell them what's good for their wallet.
This country sucks. I'm an hour away from the Canadian border. I'm out of here. There is no hope for this country. We actually believe that conservatives have an answer. .
is intended to be a factual statement
even though you are long gone by now:
"A single(as in singular) teenage girl who was gang raped and killed herself because of the humiliation doesn't bring in advertisers. Doesn't matter if it's a common, It just doesn't sell."
It sells as long as her body goes missing for a while. Especially if she interned for a Democratic
Congressman.
“Why would anyone with a functioning brain believe this guy?”
Some guy with an eating disorder
*
"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui
People need to learn to handle their alcohol before they leave home. It's the parents job.
Don't you find it troubling that an article claims a DOJ study shows 25% of women get raped without linking to the actual study? This 25% figure is a common feminist lie, repeated over and over in every place feminists get power. Here is what the study claimed to show:
"How extensive is rape among college women?
Exhibit 3 reports the extent of rape found in the NCWSV study. As shown, 2.8 percent of the sample had experienced either a completed rape (1.7 per- cent) or an attempted rape incident (1.1 percent). The victimization rate was 27.7 rapes per 1,000 female students."
This is a study conducted by feminists for feminist purposes, with all the twisting and padding they can muster. And this is CLAIMS of rape or attempted rape.
Of course, we all know women never lie.
This is the first place I look for political news, so it is especially troubling to see this propaganda here.
http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/182369.pdf
fellas. Your mens rea is showing, dude.
I'm thinking this was meant as a joke, but all crimes do require a mens rea, and actus reus and concurrence.
It's the first and the last that get thrown all to hell and back when both parties are inebriated.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Accusing a man to be a rape apologist just because he does not agree with that statistic. I don't either. That doesn't make me a sexist pig or a rapist. Some feminist groups have been known to inflate or create statistics just to promote their causes and this over inflation won't help the women. When will you accuse him of being a Nazi?
"This is a study conducted by feminists for feminist purposes, with all the twisting and padding they can muster. And this is CLAIMS of rape or attempted rape...Of course, we all know women never lie."
Wear it proudly, dude. I expect your little chest is all puffed up right now, huh?
That's where I got the mens rea vibe.
.
By repeating the 1 in 4 raped myth.
This is not the same.
Further this study is hard to believe. When the rape rate in 2008 is 29.3/100,000 (which was the lowest it was in 32 two years prior) it seems incredible that 25,000/100,000 women ages 16-24 will be raped. Even given the attempted rapes were 100 times more often than reported actual rapes, that would still be less than the claim from above. We are talking suggesting that attempted rapes and unreported rapes occur approximately 1000 times per every reported rape. That is very hard to believe. The more incredible the claim, the more evidence is needed.
More than one unreferenced study needs to prove this!
This type of propaganda only takes the legitimacy aware from from the actual victims of rape and undermines their attempts by offering questionable politically motivated material that taints their legitimate claims and needs.
I have worked hard to raise funds and awareness for our local rape and domestic violence crisis center and hope C & L remembers to a) be more critical before posting titles misleading the public and b) be a bit more critical of these hot political sources.
Yes binge drinking and rape is a problem - but dubious reports with outlandish claims only tarnish our image as politic hacks instead of concerned citizens with a serious cause.
Studies over the past half century continue to come up with figures of any where from 60% to 80%+ of women are victims of rape.
Most victims are young women or children.
One study in Columbia Univeristy back in the 80's, if I remember right, showed over 90% of the male students had comitted a sexual act that fell within the legal definition of rape.
Think about that the next time you are in a meeting, or whatever, with 10 women you know, and realize that over half of them are victims of a violent crime. Probably one or two of incest.
Then think about that the next time your are in a meeting, or whatever, with 10 men you know, and realize that 9 of them have probably committed rape at least once in their life.
Now go back to the 10 women, do the math. Most of the rape victims have been victims of more than one rapist.
And that doesn't even count boys who are raped.
Yet this country continues to not take this crime seriously.
This is simply nonsense. 9 out of 10 men are rapists! Completely ridiculous! The definition of attempted rape includes attempted kissing! In that case many young men could claim being rape victims too. It doesn't serve the cause to put an real rape and an attempted kiss on the same level.
With the rise of female gangs, rape of females by other females has risen, although it's usually of the nature of an assault with sexual overtones or undertones.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
I've heard some people speculate that one of the recent acid attacks was part of an gang initiation....
"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui
I wanted to address that, but I'm not thinking straight due to being rather in my cups.
But usually these are initiations, and although acid is an extreme weapon, it's certainly a way to destroy another's appearance, which could either be taken as an extreme act of aggression, and possibly even jealousy of some kind, appearance, popularity, flirting with the wrong person etc.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
woman who threw acid, but sometimes the object of the jealousy doesn't even have to know the other person to have them stewing in jealousy.
"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui
It's a culture which has no respect for women as individuals.
If 1 out of 4 woman in college are raped, who is doing the raping, 3 out of 4 men, 2 out of 4, 1 out of 4....I do not dismiss the problem but that seems to be a very large number. I believe if my daughter were raped in college, I would let it be known if the college helped or hindered in its investigation of that crime.
it's harder to study. It's one thing to admit to having been raped, and another to admit you've raped someone, you know? My fuzzy memory seems to remember one study saying something like 1 in 12 or 1 in 13, but I can't remember enough to say if I think it might be close to accurate...
"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui
Here is a gem from link #1 in this post which defines "the biggest risk factor behind many college rapes: Alcohol."
"Overall, one in 20 (4.7 percent) women reported being raped in college since the beginning of the school year – a period of approximately 7 months – and nearly three-quarters of those rapes (72 percent) happened when the victims were so intoxicated they were unable to consent or refuse."
Read that again. Three fourths of the 5% who reported being raped said they were too drunk at the time it happened to either says yes or say no. But apparently not too drunk to clearly remember what happened well enough to define it as rape.
http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/college/a/blca...
My guess is that if they asked those reporting rapes if the perpetrator was a date who was as drunk as they were, a substantial number would report it was.
“Why would anyone with a functioning brain believe this guy?”
Some guy with an eating disorder
Here's one of the questions:
Are you fucking kidding me? So if I'm with my girlfriend in my dorm room, and we've fucked many times in the past, both willingly and consensually, and we're in the the midst of foreplay, and I move my finger(s) from her vagina to the vicinity of her anus- just, ya know, to see- and she says, 'Uh, I don't think so, not tonight,' and I say, 'That's kewl,' and we still do it like rabbits for hours before we go and get brunch and see a film....This fucking study is saying that I committed sexual assault!!!!
Yeah, I'm sorry, but this is beyond ridiculous. The definitions that it uses for sexual assault are just way too broad to be taken seriously.
Susie, I usually steer clear of piling on ricky's criticism of your posts, but you really should have done your homework before you got so hyperbolic.
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
to last a lifetime. And in Susie's defense, she did not come up with the 1 in 4 number. She copied it from and attributed it to Nightline, which did not pull it out of thin air.
Unlike the first report linked by Susie, the second one seemed not to focus on alcohol, and did not present data on how often each each factor contributed to the risk of rape or attempted rape. But the last point to me raises a big question mark.
"Although exceptions exist, most sexual victimizations occur when college
women are alone with a man they know, at night, and in the privacy of a
residence. Most women attempt to take protective actions against their
assailants but are then reluctant to report their victimization to the police.
.... Several factors appeared to increase various types of
victimization: living on campus, being unmarried, getting drunk frequently,
and experiencing prior sexual victimization."
Less than 5% of rapes and attempted rapes were reported to police. Less than half were considered by the women themselves to be rapes. Most occurred in the victim's room involving perpetrators they knew. Many while they were drunk. Many by women who state they were victimized previously.
Put the two studies together. What conclusions do you draw? Women who report being raped by guys they know in their room are often way too drunk to say yes or no but report it has happened before. They resist the guy but don't call the cops.
Follow up studies might report a high incidence of opposite sex marriage to, and divorce from, one of more of the perpetrators. And, of course, if the studies included the perpetrators they would find 99% reported they were 9 inches tall and the ladies were totally satisfied each and every time.
My bitch in all this is that nonsensical inflation of data to make a political point detracts from the tragedy involving the one young woman who is the focal point of the story. And is dead.
“Why would anyone with a functioning brain believe this guy?”
Some guy with an eating disorder
I forgot the preposition. It should have read:
Look, my chief criticism is that the definitions of sexual assault in the NCJRS study really throw the numbers off in a big way. It's basically a push poll.
I don't want to seem as if I'm blaming victims here- I'm very well acquainted with two rape victims- but even using more realistic definitions of rape and sexual assault, there will be times when the accused ends up being the victim. I don't think it happens often, but it happens. And because the physical evidence of a rape is often simply the evidence of sexual activity, short of witnesses a rape trial can become nothing but something akin to the competition for an best-acting Oscar.
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
the incidence of rape by as much as 11 times over a comparison study which did not use the same screening questions.
Gloria Allred sold the story to Nightline using the inflated numbers. You can bet she was more interested in getting her name mentioned than that of her client's dead child.
Interestingly enough, poor Ms. Wright does not seem to fit the pattern depicted in the post or the studies.
“Why would anyone with a functioning brain believe this guy?”
Some guy with an eating disorder
I wonder if they reported the Rape to the police or just to the College...
>
Gloria Allred has yet to meet a camera or a microphone she doesn't like. Regardless of the validity of the numbers or the facts, her representation in this case could end up to be harmful to her client. Her reputation in the legal community in California where she started her tabloid style, practice is not good. Unless she makes a local New York attorney the lead counsel, and tones down any silly rhetoric, the message and her clients fight against a wealthy defendant like the Catholic Church could go down in flames.
Yes, it's about power, sadism, gangsterism. If it wasn't, rape would be a rarity now that women consent readily and many are sex workers. The Middle-Eastern Religions bloc--Christianity, Judaism, Islam--still blame women and excuse men.
That said, don't ask me to feel sorry for the scion of a family which runs political corruption scams, has an organized wiretap racket in the Southeast to feed the family cartoonists, and uses organized employment blacklists (though they call it sequestrage, quarantining, and "family friending) to keep their bully targets silent. Someone got revenge on the Wrights, but they picked low-hanging fruit, something I can't forgive. They should have gone after the white privileged males and given them a taste of similar medicines.
lower the drinking age....build up a tolerance before college.
in the not too distant future.
“Why would anyone with a functioning brain believe this guy?”
Some guy with an eating disorder
I have one granddaughter already in college, another will be starting in the fall, and another one starting next year. Frankly I'm concerned about their safety.
We already had one young woman commit suicide months ago in high school because of how other students treated her and apparently the school system doesn't want to get involved with protecting our children and grandchildren.
....The Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work and then get elected and prove it.--P.J. O'ROURKE, Holidays in Hell
If youth is wasted on the young, then money is definitely wasted on the rich.
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