Michigan Gov. Rick Snyder (R) is insisting that a so-called "right to work" law which restricts unions' ability to collect dues is not "anti-union" at all.

Speaking to MSNBC on Wednesday, Snyder said his move to sign the legislation into law and join the 23 other "right to work" states where workers make $1,500 less on average was actually "pro-worker."

But MSNBC's Richard Wolffe wondered how the governor could defend calling unions bad for business when the auto industry in Michigan had been very successful in recent years.

"I've never said unions are bad for business and I don't believe this is actually anti-union," Snyder asserted. "I believe this is pro-worker."

"Are you serious?" a stunned Wolffe replied. "Are you serious this is not anti-union? This, at its core, actually undermines the ability for unions to organize."

"This does not deal with organizing at all," Snyder declared. "This does not deal with collective bargaining at all. This is nothing to do with the relationship between an employer and a union. This is about the relationship between unions and workers. And this is about giving workers the freedom to choose, and unions have to be in a position to present a good value proposition."

"This should make unions more effective in terms of having to put a value proposition to workers," he added.

Scarborough explained that while he did not support requiring workers to pay union dues, he would "not go so far as to say what you’ve just said, which is that this helps unions."

"I mean, it undermines unions’ ability to stay vibrant, right?" the MSNBC host observed.

"It really leaves it up to the union to decide and innovate as to what their value proposition is," Snyder insisted.