Jim Webb rips into Graham for putting political words in our Soldiers' mouths
By John Amato Saturday Jul 14, 2007 10:59am
Lindsay Graham sounded like he was on a pot of coffee, seven Red Bulls and a couple of packs of cigarettes---while being fluent at the Evelyn Wood talking points course. Jim Webb was not thrilled to be sitting next to him.
Download | play 
Download | play (MP4) 
Download | play (QT)
Webb: Lindsey's had a hard month...excuse me friend...
And he got angry when Graham, (McCain's BFF) tried to put words in the mouths of our soldiers
Webb: Don't put political words in their mouths...
No wonder Republicans are afraid of Webb. Here's some highlights:
Graham: "The surge has been in place for two weeks" Webb: "we didn't
do that in two weeks"
Webb: "It's been a hard month Lindsey, hasn't it?"
Webb: "Lindsey's had a hard month. These people who have gathered
around the President, you know, on the immigration bill and this bill,
I know it's been tough. We gotta bring people together ..." (more down below)
Webb: "We're now in a situation where the soldiers and the Marines are
having less than a one to one ratio [time at home versus time at war],
and somebody needs to speak up for them instead of simply defending
what this President ..."
Graham: "Well, they reenlist in the highest numbers anywhere than the..."
Webb: "This one thing I really take objection to is politicians ..."
Lindsey keeps interrupting
Webb: "May I speak? ... Is politicians who put their political views
in the mouths of soldiers. You can look at poll after poll and the
political views of the United States military are no different than
the country writ large. Go take a look at the New York Times today.
Less than half of the military believes that we should have been in
Iraq in the first place."
Graham: "Have you ever been to Iraq? Have you ever been?"
Webb: "Have you ever been to these ... I've covered two wars as a
correspondent."
cross-talk
Graham: "Have you been to Iraq and talked to the soldiers?"
Webb: "You know, you haven't been to Iraq Lindsey. (cross-talk).
You go see the dog and pony show. That's what Congressman do."
cross talk
Webb: "I've been a member of the military more than the Senators been
a Senator."
---------
Webb: "35% of the United States military agrees with the policy of
this President."
Graham: "Well, why do they keep reenlisting? Why do they go back?"
Webb: "Because they love their country. (cross-talk) They do not do
it for political reasons. Believe me, my family's been doing this
since the Revolutionary War."
Graham: "Yea? Well so has my family."
Webb: "They do it because they love their country. They do it because
they have a tradition, and it is the responsibility of our national
leaders so make sure that they are used properly."
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That was by far the best thing on tv today, hell, maybe ever
Really what was wrong with Graham? I've never seen him so crazed before. Was it desperation? He needs a timeout!
Jim Webb and Ron Paul for President with Secretary of State Wes Clark. When will this loser country begin to select winners?
There's a lot of David Vitter in Lindsay Graham.
Actually Ron Paul for VP on the Webb ticket.
Patricia,
The David Vitter revelation clearly dominated Lindsay Graham's face and general demeanor.
Webb kicks butt!
PLEASE, my fellow humans. Webb worked for Reagan as a cabinet member. He recently voted to continue the war. He recently created a bill that he knew would never get to the vote. He is a republican by all measurements
be careful where you place your hope. this one has all ready lied and voted with the president on the mass kill fun in bagdaddistan
how low a standard to some of you folks have? we will never be able to get them to stop if you keep making heroes out of killers
"There’s a lot of David Vitter in Lindsay Graham."
er... sort of... but it's not polite to mention that he's a big hypocrite who'd be run out of town on a rail if his brain-dead, hillbilly supporters knew the truth.
And BTW... LINDSAY GRAHAM SHUT THE FUCK UP! You are an asshole and will always be an asshole.
Thank You.
Go Webb!!!!Sic'em boy!
It used to be (1970s) common practice to offer enticements to a potential re-enlistee: schools, choice of duty station, etc... I wonder if this has anything to do with re-enlistments?
"Sir, I'll take that billet down at the South Pole, sir."
I contributed to Webb's campaign and this is why. Don't agree with all
of Senator Webb's views (when ever with anybody?) but he thinks and
speaks clearly.
Go Jim!
...
The subtext to all that is that Jim Webb's son is over there, which he didn't want to bring up.
Last week, Lindsay Graham lauded the Bush surge in Iraq. A veteran of both the armed forces and an April shoppng spree in Baghdad ("I bought five rugs for five bucks"), Graham concluded last Saturday:
For more background, see:
"Iraq Surge Wins Reviews."
MTP brought to you by "Red-Bull, Red-Bull gives you SPIN!111111" also brought to you by "De-Nile, hate the truth? hat reality? Take De-Nile and just wash them libereeraaaal! facts away". (side effects include sounding like a jabbering fool and having an inability to make eye contact)
curious vet @ 12:
Yep, they are being offered big bonuses and chances to complete their enlistment stateside. Otherwise they run the risk of being 'stop lossed' with no bonus and returned to Iraq. But to tell you the truth, they've been screwed with the 3 month extension and word has it they'll be extended another 3 months...they just don't no it yet. Looks like another Christmas alone this year.
At last, someone like Webb who very impolitely lets these bastards and
their idiotic talking points HAVE IT. Right in their face. Go, Webb.
I'm postive I heard there are big bonuses for staying in the military.
Hey, here's a thought .. maybe they re-enlist because since they've been deployed so long their businesses are gone, they really have no job to return to and the economy, especially for those who have no plans for college, is rather bad.
There have been several stories on the MA newspapers this past month about servicemen who come home to their ruined business that died in their absence, and no job prospects.
sad thing is little green footballers and freepers will say Graham won
I am just hearing Sen. Graham saying "the Iranians are killing the Americans." What? Is he nuts? We started the war for oil, power over the region, one world order, blah, blah. It is typical of the Christian fundies to be in denial.
Folks, if ever you have another election, boot him out.
We need people like Webb. Great job!
Lindsey Graham is such a blind loyalist traitor. It's obvious from his statements that he's nothing more than a shill..
- the surge has made "enormous progress" yet it just started "2 weeks ago".. both of those statements can't be true!
- "Our soldiers go to Iraq and they see the FACE OF THE ENEMY" - is the face of the enemy the Iraqi people that we went there to "liberate"? It's such a sick and tragic joke.
POP, a lot of these guys go back to be with their guys. I know. They've been to hell together. They're closer to each other than their own spouses. That kinda smarts.
Motorhead Vette '67 @ 3:
Yeah that is the ticket, have the republicans screw up the government by controlling the congress for over a decade and the white house for 2 terms... and now we need an asshole libertarian in GOP clothes who wants to dismantle the government because it is so mismanaged.
I have a concept, if libertatians and GOPers hate the government so much why don't they stop sucking off the public tit and get real jobs. Leave the government for those who still believe that humans are social animals and who are not willing to turn their backs on 10 millenia of human society.
Webb is so correct. I served in Desert Storm. One of my sisters served and was wounded in this war, her husband still is in Iraq. My son, a member of the Guard is in Iraq. My Dad retired from the Air Force about 2 years ago. My family has served this country for many generations, yet almost every one do not believe in this war started for lies. We should have never invaded Iraq.
Contrary to the Neocons and fact-blind supporters of the War, people can support the troops, yet not support the Policy.
Just how did it occur in this country, that unwaivering obedience to corporate interest is what constitutes being patriotic now days?
General Petreas had better get ready to get fucked. The administration and the Republicans in congress are setting him up for a fall when he gives his report in September. Then they will blame him and him alone for the failures in Iraq.
Be honest Lindsey: Except for that treasonous, secessionist period called the Civil War, in which, the Graham clan got its collective ass handed to it. Traitorous blood runs deep.
I see this, and all I can think of is President Webb.
eddi e at 9, like, uh, Miz Lindsey is a hypocrite?
I thought Graham won on points. In any case it was hardly worth getting excited about. Webb is one of the better Dems but I cannot understand how the Left gets so excited about a half-ass performance like that. I guess as Eddie Murphy says, if your starving in the desert and someone gives you a Ritz cracker.....
A reminder to Sen. Graham:
Your grandfather and those around him might have fought the Brits occupation in the Americas. You folks rebelled against the monarchy to create the republic.
Similarly, the Iraqis are fighting the occupation and rebelling the democracy against their theocracy.
Ponder on this!
You created the Al Qaeda.
We should have Sen. Webb as leader of the Senate, we definitely need someone
who can generate some form of passion and who is not afraid to point out the
Repbulican garbage. Sen. Reid is a good person, but is not the leader for this point in
time, we need a tough fighter and that maybe our problem why our voices are not
been heard more. Reid's lack luster attitude is not going to get us any where. We need to change course in the Senate just as the president need to change course in Iraq. Sticking with Reid is not going to cut it much longer.
this is what happens when someone represses their sexuality in the repuglican party....you become a vile sycophant for the chickenhawks.
come on Lindsay let yourself out of the closet....and practice your man love. BE FREE!
maybe then 100,000's of innocent people no longer have to die.
Graham's must have no concept of what management is, the role of Congress and the role of the Military. Congress isn't micromanaging the war, their job is to set end goals, to say go in or get out and to define over-arching missions and to dictate time lines. It's the Military's job to figure how to achieve those goals, how to go in, how to get out, how to enact those missions and how to reach those time lines. It's amazing Graham can't understand these simple facts. Of course, he can't seem to distinguish between Al Qaeda and Iraq's nor the difference between a "war" and the "troops". Sad.
Gaius Gracchus @ 28:
I can find no reference to his family serving either for or against the USA.
Methinks he is lying!
The real reason people keep re-enlisting is to get more money, I myself am attempting to re-enlist but mainly because I hate my current job in the signal corps. We're due to deploy around October or so, I want to try to get the new MOS before then (otherwise I get to go to Iraq for a year or more and then I can change when I get back).
Also we get sizable tax free bonuses when we go down-range (danger pay). Some people just really love the army life, others want a better job (me), still others just want to experience as much as they can in the army. I'm willing to bet the number wanting to go back to Iraq just to finish the job is very, very low, I've yet to hear anyone around me saying that.
Lindsay Graham, what a putz. Does he really disbelieve the polls, and instead believe what is told to him at the dog and pony shows they give to congressmen when they visit Iraq? What a goddamn maroon. He looks like the type who never saw even a schoolyard battle in his life, let alone the military and its operations.
And yet he has the guts to tell Webb how it is.
[...] Update: As promised, here’s the video. [...]
Gaius Gracchus @ 28:
Webb could've nailed him hard right there, most of Grahams family state and the South in general were on the side of the Brits during the Revolution.
Graham was quite nervous and uncomfortable. Graham represents a classic whimp who cowered further when Webb put his hand on his shoulder.
By the way, this is what EVERY Dem in congress should be doing - appearing on the media, well prepared, to attack the wingnuts. Not offer respect to them, like Pelosi the few times she deigns to appear, but attack.
Webb did an excellent job.
As a soldier on his second tour in Iraq, very very few people reenlist because they like comming over to Iraq. Many do it for the very large tax free bonuses they can get (for junior soldiers this can be almost as large or larger than their annual salary). The ones with 12-14 year in are reenlisting because "Hey I only got [so many] years left till retirement. How many times can they send me here?"
The most telling is junior officers (Captains and below). A very good portion is leaving the first chance they get. These are the people that can't be swayed by big bonuses, or fall for feel good line like "Odds are good you'll go to another unit that won't deploy for another 2 years". Unfortunately these are the people that will be the Armys battalion commanders and brigade commanders in 10 years, but they're leaving.
Watchdog, will this be your first deployment?
I was a little surprised that Webb used the phrase "red neck justice" during this show... don't hear that very often on national television heh.
[So vince-how do you like moderation? It comes with with 'this new comment stuff' you mocked on Jun 25, @ 12:52 PM under your 'vince' name. ENJOY! Sitemonitor]
Watchdog will this be your first deployment?
They are going back because they are waved a ton of cash in front of their face. They go back because they are getting non-deployable assignments.
Oops.
Wow. I love Jim Webb. Even if he had just been one of the gagle of Republicans MTP has on week after week, it's wonderful to see SOMEBODY actively standing up for the true opinions of our soldiers. Nothing bothers me more than the horrible way our military has been taken advantage of in the last four years.
Timmy: "To be continued. . ."
That is what's wrong with the mainstream media. "To be continued. . ." as though these debates are purely academic ones which can go on indefinitely with the media on the sidelines, kibbitzing.
Well as someone who spent 22 years in the military, I can tell you that the carefully selected slice of data that Graham is pointing to, i.e., re-enlistment rates are maintaining, has nothing to do with the political views of soldiers. Soldiers and sailors re-enlist for a broad variety of reasons, but I'd say the top one is the perception of what is waiting for them if they get out. In other words, economics, not politics, drives re-enlistment rates. Graham is desperate and pathetic, but I have to say I still don't get what it really is that motivates the Grahams, Liebermans, and McCains about Iraq. Whatever it is, my sense is it isn't what they say publicly.
BTW, Webb needs to get out to Iraq, if for no other reason than to that away as a way of attacking him.
Graham: "...have you been to Iraq and talked to the soldiers...". What an idiot. I believe Webb could get a feel for the soldiers view when he talks to his own SON, who is deployed.
How many times did Graham use the buzz words: God, country, love for..., etc.
Man, I really sick and tired of the jingoistic, hypocritical sycophants.
I respect Senator Webb, and I'm glad he's on the Democratic side, but I think he could have presented himself in a more mature way.
They both behaved poorly, which means Tim Russert either moderated poorly, or, depending on the motivations, moderated a TV talking head show perfectly.
His ratings will go up next week.
I'd much prefer a more controlled dialogue where people aren't forced to speak over each other.
I won't waste time commenting on Graham's nonsensical Bush lock-step babbling, but more carefully examining his demeanor/expression, are we sure he's not another "secret" Republican homosexual?
Not a homophobe by any means, but I do chortle in glee when these family first/anti-gay marriage hypocrites finally get caught with pages/giving blow jobs in parks....
Wow, That's the most panicked I've seen the typically smooth talking Huckleberry...his body language and his highpitched whiny speedtalking revealed that more than anything he might have said. These hypocrits realize the masses and the troops are onto their false bluster and are panicking.... I think I even saw some sweat on Lindsay's brow. It's about time someone made them sweat about their failed policies, lies, and fake sentiments like their support the troops mantra * not valid if they need Amored Humvees, more time off in between deployments, or veteran's benefits healthcare.* Bravo Senator Webb. Only wish he had pointed out to Huckleberry who said he'd listen to General Petraeus (their knew goto guy for all things they support) about how Bush has fired all Generals that disagreed with his policies remember....remember they just let go of Abizaid and others because they were against the surge. Bush changes Generals when they tell him things he doesn't want to hear or do. Plus Acting General's Kagan and Kristol keep telling him he's right so and he's making progress that's all he needs.
Any chance Graham is a supplicant sycophant for BushCo because Rove has pictures of a nude Graham wallowing in a pool of baby oil with a Utah boy scout wearing nothing but a scarf?
Jesus...I'm watching the list of the war dead right now, I'm shocked to see how many colonels, captains and senoir NCOs there are. Don't mistake what I'm saying, it's not that they're better than the little E-1s and E-2s but...this doesn't look good.
Senator Webb has a personal interest in this,having a son serving in Iraq. It must be hard listening to a hack like Graham sit there
and act like he knows what he's talking about.
Watch Faux Noise...am pretty sure that it will using editing techniques to show
that Webb is not supportative of our troops(tho he has a son deployed there at
present) and will give laudatory comments about Graham(who spent most of his
time in Iraq shopping for carpets when surrounded and protected by our military
personnel.) Graham is a low-life weasel and people of S. Carolina should find him
disgusting.
Watchdog @ 37:
I was in the Navy for 12 years. I've worked for Dyncorp. People are greedy and willing to take risks if they can make A LOT of money and believe they will come home in one piece.
It may be politically incorrect to say so, but I would suggest that our troops are considerably more greedy than they are "patriotic". They want a FAT bank account MORE than they want to "serve or country and stare down the enemy"...
You give them $25,000 a year to do what they are doing and they would be walking or stop lossed.
My Man Webb!
Webb should of knocked the sh_t out of Lindsay....that would have been "righteous"
Mr Webb had way more patience with Graham than I would have. Doesn't he have a son in Iraq? Why didn't he mention that when Graham asked him if he'd been to Iraq. I would have also asked Graham if he left the so-called "Green Zone" and if things are going great over there why is the "Green Zone" now getting attacked such as the Iraqi parliament not too long ago? And I would have also brought up the fact that al Malki recently said the US troops can leave whenever they want.
Strawberry @ 46:
Yes, I went to basic back in Jan 04, AIT by April and I have been at my current duty station, Ft. Huachuca since October of that year. My original company deployed half of us in Oct 05, me and everyone else stayed behind as rear D. This year the entire Battalion is due to go, although my current company is being deployed to Egypt first for the Brightstar mission in Oct while the rest of the Bat goes downrange, we will apparently follow later.
vance @ 45:
yeah vince, how do you like the mocking comments of the sitemonitor? Down with the overseers!
I love seeing people who say they're progressives promoting Ron Paul who wants to take away Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and all other government programs.
Sapper @ 43:
That's what I thought.
And with almost 13 years in the Navy, sick of the BS, I had a "straw that broke the camel's back" experience, was sick of the majority of the mindless people in the Navy - AND I WALKED AWAY FROM IT.
I believe Graham is on his political deathbed. Also I think Larry Flynt has something in store for Graham. Not quite like Vitter but I believe he will out Graham.
What Timothy D said: One big reason for re-upping is that you get the bonus; if you don't re-up, you'll be stop-lossed and called out of the reserve anyway, so you might as well do it 'voluntarily'. It's a bogus number. The recruitment rate is more telling.
I also wanted to say I think for the most part Mr Webb is right on why people return to battle but it's mostly to save their buddies and not about really "serving" their country especially when they know the truth of the whole situation. And I agree that it's probably also financial reason's for taking care of themselves and/or their families.
Sen Webb slapped Lucy Graham around pretty good, and you know Sen Webb, that ain't no way to treat a lady.
Vance #45 there will be no social security in a few years. Hell we are lucky if the dollar doesn't collapse. Someone said the dollar is worth a half of what it is worth since Bush.
Larry Flynt has something on Graham? Oh that would be juicy I'm sure!!
Watchdog @ 63:
Well, if you need any thing when you get there let me know, C&L can get you any contact info you need. Hubby is at Camp Stryker...he was supposed to be home in Oct. but...I'm getting the feeling that there will be another extention.
webb still votes to fund the war.
graham is a bad person of course. butt webb is a disappointment. so is the democrat leadership.
The military men have been treated like pawns here at home and abroad without proper care or respect.
Desperate situations lead them to re-enlist for survival.
How sad!
Only two men in this country have openly stated publicly they'd punch George Bush in the face... Wayne Coyne, guru of the Flaming Lips and Jim Webb.
Coyne is a smallish dude and may struggle a little agianst that pussy GWB as he whips his ass but Webb would mop the floor up with the Dickweed-in-Chief. Our government debate should be more like Japan or South Korea. Webb should've tagged Graham.
Watchdog @ 63:
Good luck Watchdog. I was stationed in the Signal Corp at Ft. Huachuca during the
Korean "conflict", so know the region quite well, tho I must admittedly say, I have no
great desire or urgency to return to that particular local, BUT much better than going
to the Mid-east..
nobody one. They (mostly graham) kept interrupting each other. can't russert moderate? i have that.
I just sent an email to Senator Graham, but I'm from California, not South Carolina so I don't know if they'll ever read it. It was a disgusting performance on his part. If you can't properly discuss a subject without shouting over the other person, then you only look like a fool. I asked him to try and think of the good of America, not just the Republican party. I wish I lived in South Carolina so I could vote against him.
Del Capslock @ 51:
You are EXACTLY right. Like I said before, I spent almost 13 years in the Navy and walked away from it. Part of the reason that I almost did not get out was because I was an E5 over 12 making pretty decent money, had many bills, and was terrified that I might not find a job with a comparable salary fast enough. I went into the military right out of high school and it was all I knew.
But I realized that I had family who would temporarily support me to get back on my feet and I was SSOO fed up with it I said "fuck it, I don't care if I fall flat on my face - I'll get back up until I stop falling".
oops. typos..
nobody won. They (mostly graham) kept interrupting each other. can’t russert moderate? i hate that.
EZ @ 22:
Every word out of the White House and its minions is about Iran. The naval war machine is almost in place and Bush is seeking a free hand from Congress.
If your country doesn't impeach Bush and Cheney immediately, you are going to find yourself responsible for an unforgiveable tragedy in Iran.
What seems to have gone unmentioned is that Graham's mantra, that the troops keep on reenlisting, is disingenuous. What Webb failed to point out is that the Army failed to meet its quota of signing up recruits for both May and June. In particular, in June, the Army fell short of its recruitment goal by 1000 soldiers. Webb failed to point this out, that many Americans are not falling for the sales pitch given to them by the military and are apparently are refusing to be used for cannon fodder for the lies that they are told by this administration. People like Webb have to better prepared if they wish to turn aside the falsehoods that are continually told by warmongers like Graham.
I'm pretty sure that the networks encourage the talking over of each other by participants, but it debases political discourse. Why the hell can't they speak in an orderly manner. I could scarcely stomach that let alone follow who was saying what.
Yet another blow-hard closet case who unlawfully sat in judgment of others in a military court while an elected representative. Are ALL RepugnantCons criminals? Full of bluster and presuming to speak for others, shouting over and down any possibility for honest discourse, the closest Graham ever got to combat was as a judge advocate stateside.
"Calm Down, Lindsay." Priceless.
Mike #65
Graham is only NOT out to himself! Major Log Cabin person!
This discussion is a perfect example why America is in ruins, morally and economically, and why it happened.
"Were you in Iraq? No, but I was in Afghanistan. (By the way, my son is in Iraq [you bloody bastard], but I am a Democrat and I am "civil" so I will sacrifice my own son's heroism and won't mention it publicly to make you, Mr. Graham, look good, please, I will even let you bulldoze me in front of the public so go ahead, I am a civil Democrat after all, so no, I was not in Iraq."
And when the nation of the enablers, who let the weak become powerful for no reason, finally woke up, there was no nation to be found, the society was in ruins...
Graham must want eternal war. Webb did not back down. If Graham's opinions of the how the troops feel is based on his visits to Baghdad, I think that his opinion is worthless. I have never really seen Meet the Press get as out of control as this one. Graham would be better served asking his own constituents or maybe he could visit some towns in Iowa. Let's let Lindsay go to Baghdad and do some patrols in 130 degree heat while the Iraqi parliament is not in session. Lindsay is a hypocrite like all of the Repugs.
Go Jim Webb. That was such a great exchange. Lindsay Graham looked like he was losing it, while Webb kept his cool. I think Lindsay Graham comes unhinged pretty easily. He's a little scary to me. I watched him during one of those hearings, and it looked like he excused himself in order to regain his composure. I had visions of him going to the bathroom splashing cold water in his face just to calm down. He came back with is hair a little disheveled. It was kind of weird.
Cantor de Mambo @ 84:
If you want to hear a hot argument made in cool, persuasive and intelligent fashion - and an interviewer who challenges and illuminates without ever being disrespectful - try watching Bill Moyers' recent piece on Impreachment with Bruce Fein and John Nichols.
It's a masterpiece of logic, argumentation, civility and sanity...and on a topic that would be nothing other than a shoutfest on FOX.
I think Webb did better than Graham, but only marginally. Of course he's far more right than Graham, but before we get all angry at Graham and lionize Webb based on this TV appearance, let's at least concede three things:
1. Webb interrupted Graham as often as Graham interrupted him.
2. Webb put political "words" in soldiers' mouths as much as Graham did. Graham said their opinion could be discovered by looking at rates of re-enlistment. Webb said their opinion could be discovered by looking at a poll in the New York Times. Webb's measure is probably more reliable, but both men were trying to "enlist" the troops on their side of the debate.
3. Graham made a rather petty ... but noticable ... point when he asked if Webb had evern been to see the troops in Iraq. I don't know, maybe Webb has, but either way, he definitely stumbled trying to get past that question. However trivial it was to the actual debate, it has the unfortunate appearance of being a big rhetorical "score".
Erroll @ 83:
Absolutely correct......Webb should have been better prepared to
refute the Graham statements by using Pentagon/Military official records released just
recently indicating that new recruitments are way, way down over desired goals...this
would have, maybe, shut Gramham's mouth since re-enlistments are not nearly as
important as are "new signees/recruits".
Finally a person that will stand up to these assholes who keep using the military as a political crutch! Thank you Senator Webb.
Lindsey Graham: was a National Guard lawyer who never left South Carolina during the Gulf War.
Jim Webb: rifle platoon and company commander with the Fifth Marine Regiment in the An Hoa Basin west of Danang; was awarded the Navy Cross, the Silver Star Medal, two Bronze Star Medals, and two Purple Hearts.
Source: http://www.awolbush.com/whoserved.html
Shut the F*** up, Graham.
Freaked-Out #80
As if the U.S. isn't already responsible for the travesty of invading, occupying, stealing from and slaughtering the citizens of Iraq? I'm embarrassed to carry a U.S. Passport. Ours was rather a rogue nation when I was born a zillion years ago, but now it is just a damnable criminal corporate enterprise, disgusting to the informed citizenry, despised internationally.
CalGal: I lived 13 years in Los Angeles and the last 7 in Charlotte, NC. The South is a completely different animal. SC is possibly the most conservative state in the Union. Actually I have had enough of the South. Interviewing for a job in Las Vegas. I have friends in SC and they are all chickenhawks.
No. 80, the recent Maliki politico rhetoric is a facade. The troops might be diverted to iran to bend their pride against Bush's abnormal democratic form of govt.
However, your wishful thinking to a bygone era has surely ended with Bush/Cheney's worldwide communistic manifesto implementation.
We have seen nothing as yet. A doom and gloom of a great country America is inevitable.
Hey Lindsey Graham. Shaddup already!
Lindsey Who? Oh you mean the Impeacher of Presidents over sex, the maker of excuses for
an utterly botched occupation of a country that was ZERO threat to the World? The same
Lindsey that is little more than a glorified water boy for the Executive? The very same Lindsey
that makes up reality as needed by his totally corrupt and discredited so called political
party? The same Lindsey that just knows killing another 10 thousand Iraqis is just an acceptable
annoyance, as long as his Oil buddies get those 30 and 40 year contracts controlling Iraqi oil?
A true product of the Good'ol Boy network, from head to toe. Gods save the Republic from such
a paragon of virtue. One of the best Senators money can buy.
Chris Rock once said, "I ain't worried about Al Kida, I'm worried about Al Cracker!"
Al Cracker and his merry band of good shepherds are the problem, not the arabs.
...butsed him right in the snot box.
Doggiebobo @ 77:
So people back then hated this place too :D I know the town of Sierra Vista was founded around the 50's, considering how small it currently is, I can only imagine how tiny it was back then.
BTW: We're supposed to listen to Graham because he's been to Iraq and bought a rug at a market under armed guard with military air cover??
I don't care who's talking, but if they're talking over each other like a couple of idiots, I can't stand to fucking listen to it. American political discourse = dumb and dumber.
p.s. Graham needs a good kick to his closetly gay little mouth. That'll shut up his mindless prattering.
Lobotomy Graham was beating the bomb Iran drum to death on Meet the Press today and appears to be more rabid and delusional than bush.
He kept talking over Webb like a redneck schoolyard bully and would not adress Webb's points that the troops need more time off and that over half of the foreign fighters are Saudis.
Should we bomb Saudia Arabia and Iran?
[...] Video at Crooks & Liars Webb: “It’s been a hard month Lindsey, hasn’t it?” [...]
Wow... I just watched the program again, only this time with the sound off. Amazing. I have seen hammy actors before but Graham missed his calling; he'd have done great in the old silent movies: hand on heart, rolling eyes, thumping on table, forcefully stabbing finger at opponent...you just gotta watch it with the sound off. Talk about trying to appeal to the emotions... oh, my.
Mike @ 97:
I don't know the particular facts of your "stay" in the South, but if you did not go to
Church on a regular, constant basis and did not make an effort to visit the Creation
Museum in Kentucky, YOU just did not "fit in" to their conservative, religious, right-wing
way of life and I congratulate you for getting the hell out of there.
AJ Fan @ 101:
In this case, how about Graham Cracker?
I love the new "the surge has only been on for two weeks" talking point. What bullshit! Notice he started the drum beating for Iran in there too.
Watchdog @ 103:
Yes, Sierra Vista was just a "spot in the road";....we military people generally went to
Nogales, Mexico for the scenery...hahahehe...
"Have you ever been to Iraq?" Senator Lindsey Graham.
No Senator Graham, but apparently you must have also been up a Bull's Arse, since you are so skilled at slinging pure bullshit.
...
I saw that "foodfight" live on MTP. Thought Webb was doing well. but seemed rushed as the segment was ending. Pumpkinhead had to cut it off to go to commercial and come back to pimp right-winger Bob Novak's new book.
WHEN, oh when, will MTP or any MSM show feature a panel of PROGRESSIVES and do an hour on the anti-war movement? The people are being ignored in favor of the same old ELITIST Washington insiders. Noticed today's MTP panel was all middle aged white men (or older). The REAL people are not being covered, or invited on, MTP.
Floridiot @ 40:
Good point and while I won't argue the numbers - there was a higher percentage of Tory/Loyalists in the Deep South than the rest of the country ( and certainly some of the most brutal fighting was between Patriots and Loyalists there,) those numbers changed and eventually tilted more toward the Patriots. Certainly in the Carolinas there was much partisan fighting between Patriots and Loyalists. Eventually the Patriots prevailed soI wouldguess those numbers had to change.
If I recall, the numbers usually cited by historians are 1/3 Patriot, 1/3 Tory/Loyalist and 1/3 undecided Certainly those numbers are approximations. And yes, you are correct that the Tory/Loyalist numbers were higher in the Deep South. Then again Francis Marion aka the Swamp Fox and his followers were all southerners. (Andy Jackson - most certainly a southerner - who was a youth at the time was a prisoner of war when a Bristish officer slashed him with a saber for refusing to clean his boots.)
I believe Lt Col. Banastre "Bloody Ban" Tarleton's atrocities (although atrocities were committed by both sides, his were markedly more brutal. (Such as exhuming a dead American general and making his widow fix him dinner afterwards.) drove more of the undecided and Tories to the Patriots. He was the only British officer not invited to the surrender dinner ( It was Tarleton who gave Marion the name "Swamp Fox") by the Continentals at Yorktown.
Webb kicks butt.
It burns me up that so-called moderators like Russert don't even attempt to control the balance of debate. Just a simple "Let him speak Senator," is all that's needed.
Anybody who watched Bill Moyers in last Friday's "Journal" saw what it looks and sounds like when it's done correctly and with intelligence.
As for Graham, he's fallen far down in my estimation ever since he caved to Bush on Torture. He started off saying all the right things, but then he and McCain just sewed together a few legislative fig leaves that allowed Bush to do whatever he wanted anyway.
I'm said to say he's my senator, and the only reason I think he's morphing into Lieberman is to position himself for the next election. But what can you expect from a state where nearly half the people believe the Civil War was not about slavery?
I loved it when he said, "excuse me, friend" and then put his hand on his shoulder. It was such a humiliting burn on Graham. It was like he was calming him down like you would a child who's getting out of control. It also said, "if you don't let me talk, I'ma beat your ass!"
Kudos!!
(Sad that it's a former Republican that finally grows some balls in our party.)
Why does Bush have to wait until Sept. to hear from the good General Petraeus? Doesn't he have e-mail? Or a secure phone line?
AJ @ 118:
Because, as we all know, the "surge" just started last week and we must give it
time to work.
Doggiebobo @ 112:
Haven't been there yet, we were banned from going to any boarder towns a few months back, don't know exactly why although I thought it might have been because of some soldiers who went to Mexico without getting the o.k from the Battalion commander first (and getting arrested down there as well).
a guy @ 110:
How did I miss that one . . . . ??? :>)
#111-Ken
Well said. I raised this very point on one of yesterday's posts ["Nothing but..."-#5]. Corporate media, even on shows that ask the alleged "Hardball" questions, rarely qestion authority by presenting antiwar voices on their programs. More of a reason to be thankful for programs like Free Speech TV and Link TV and especially Democracy Now! with Amy Goodman.
I hate listening to Lindsey Graham, J. Lieberman, and Alberto Gonzo. I just hate it. Webb told that sucker good. How does fat old pumpkinhead just sit there week after week?
Watchdog @ 120:
You can alway go there, staying on "this side of the border" and see a Bull Fight in the
large arena...something to do if you get the chance. Are you or others in that region
anywhere close to where the 700 mile border fences is to be built?
I haven't kept up with it, but how many reenlistments were due to some of the troops getting American citizenship?
Also, a lot of troops are going to reenlist because of their buddies, not for Bush or anyone else.
Brawlin_Dem @ 117:
Yes indeed. The reality is that Webb did exactly the right thing in taking on this rude ass Republidroid and their pre programmed bullshit. The only thing bullies respect is force and we need to let them know that like them, we will assert our point of view, period. If that means telling them to their dishonest face to STFU, so be it.
A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government.
Graham is such a slimy little worm. How is it these 'people', and I use the word in the loosest of contexts, are allowed to outright lie to the People the way they do? Graham knew he was lying, he was squirming in his seat like he was going to be struck by lightning any second.
This performance today by Webb almost assures him a number 2 spot on the Democrat ticket. And poor Lindsey Graham was lost when he ran out of the same old Republican talking points. I almost felt sorry for him.
"SUPPORT THE TROOPS,SUPPORT THE TROOPS". I'm tired of hearing that shit: WE ALL DO, DUMB FUCK! I would love to have a little one on one with Lindsey, at little "Gitmo" time. Sorry, I getting to the breaking point with all these dumb ass corporate fed politicians.
God help us take our country back from the corporate monsters who now run it.
seems to me that the gay guy was very lucky not to be eating the proverbial sandwich de-knuckes
Hooray for Senator Webb!
"Stop putting words into their mouths!"
Cantor de Mambo @ 84:
My sentiments exactly. When someone is making a point, I don't care how ridiculous it sounds, just STFU and let them make their dreadful point. Then, you can debunk them with all your fury if you like. Bill Moyers Interview with Nichols and Fein on Friday night talked exactly about this. Today, the game in politics is political one-ups-man-ship. No one is allowed to score a political point against the other. Egads. Maybe if congresspeople would stop thinking of their stupid egos and thought a little about the future of this country, we would be out of Iraq, and Bush and Cheney would be shitting themselves during impeachment proceedings.
WEELY DEMONSTRATION TO END THE WAR!
JOIN US!
A group of us meet every Thursday 4:30 to 6PM
on the corner of Middleneck Road and Northern B'lvd
in Great Neck Long Island NY. It is a very heavy traffic’d
rush hour home commute automobile four way intersection.
We demonstrate against this war,
Bring American Flags and/or signs.
"BRING HOME THE TROOPS NOW"
“HONK TO END THE WAR”
:”PEACE NOW”
“GRANDMA”S FOR PEACE”
Or What ever suits your fancy
Doggiebobo @ 124:
We can now, but we were completely banned from both Nogales and Douglas a while back, I was warned by one of my NCO's not to go to Nogales by myself and I'm usually a loner. aside from field exercises the closest I've been to the boarder was Bisbee (plan to go back there tomorrow). I haven't heard anything about a border fence but I have not been paying the immigration debates any attention.
Let me give you a perspective from the right.
First of all, we are all nationalist, conservative evangelical nationalist to be exact. And in this war on terror, the middle of the road conservative view of American no longer has any bearance, in short they are outdated.
Nationalism is in. Nationalist point of view can bring about a global change in the world for the better.
In light of this, Graham point of view is correct, whereas Webb is dead-on wrong. To win this war on terror, we must be in lockstep with our commander-in-chief, Pres Bush, all the way, for his view, is the only way we can get out of this mess.
Angry One @ 15:
Yay! @ 53:
Excuse me sir? It was Graham who was interrupting, and Webb who was properly admonishing him for interrupting. Webb did exactly what he should have done. He did not allow Graham to talk over him with points Graham already tried to make. If you want to complain, you should complain that the interviewer did not interrupt Graham when he was rolling on with a hundered different talking points and Webb wanted to insert a response to each one.
A stinkin' Nazi, are ya'? We know how to deal with your type. Keep talkin', bitch.
Otay @ 138:
And yes, it was partly Russert's fault, partly Graham's, but hardly Webb's.
From #90--3. Graham made a rather petty … but noticeable … point when he asked if Webb had ever been to see the troops in Iraq. I don’t know, maybe Webb has, but either way, he definitely stumbled trying to get past that question. However trivial it was to the actual debate, it has the unfortunate appearance of being a big rhetorical “score”.
I would think Sen. Webb gets plenty of information from soldier Webb, his son serving in Iraq. I also believe Sen. Webb has made it a rule to not bring his son's job or what he says into the political arena. And, yes, he probably could have thwacked Graham with that info, but just will not go there.
Senator Jim Webb was highly critical of Independent Democrat Senator Joe Lieberman and his incompetant warmongering and/or fearmongering. Hopefully Senator Lindsey Graham wasn't going to say his Webb's son in that statement. Cause Webb is no joke. He may soon become one of the most prominent Democratic Leaders in the Senate.
Grahm is asking Webb if he's been to Iraq? Grahm is telling Webb what the troops think of this?
Isn't Webb's SON IN IRAQ? Who the Fuck is Lindsay Grahm and what personal stake does he have in this policy?
Lindsey Graham took an oath to the president.
Left Behind Advocate @ 136:
Small wonder you people on the "right" are in such trouble. How arrogant of you to say you represent the entire conservative movement. And your simplistic black and white/ right/wrong point of view is frankly, absurd.
Webb was right to call Graham on his rude commentary. But I guess you folks have never heard or believe in thoughtful discourse since that requires a bit of intelligence and courtesy.
Feel free to march on off the cliff with the rest of your droid lemmings. Good riddance.
you know, i kinda like Lindsey graham, when his parent die 15 months a part when he was 22, he adopted his 12 year old sister, and look after the family business until his sister went to a university, and than he was station in Europe for a couple years, and came back to be a military lawyer during the first gulf war, and he even serve for a week or so after he and McCain had that infamous trip to Iraq,
and i think that he is probably very sincere in his belief because about a month or so ago, some group of southern soldiers gave graham, demint, and boehner paper saying that it does hurt their morale about American attitude toward foreign policy i.e. Iraq, but than again it depends on what soldiers you talk to and the region they are from.
graham is even open up to climate change and said that he will vote in favor of stopping it, he believe in the geneva convention and the rule of law, and he is against torture.
Also all the neo-conservatives, Joe Lieberman and the pundits were spitting Al-qaeda throughout the entire Sunday talking heads progams. I am sick and tired of these fearmongers who keep promoting Al-qaeda. They release a tape, and holy hell is let loose. I am ashamed that Americans are tired of the Republicans and Democrats bickering over these pork barrels and Iraqi debates. If these Representatives and Senators who support this war want it to continue, then pack your shit and get your ass on the plane and go fight. Kill more, plunder more, occupy more, that what the people are getting tired of!
to call that a 'butt-kicking' doesn't do it justice. Graham had no butt to kick and Webb was all polished leather boot.
by the time Graham got to "have you been to Iraq?", he was toast and he knew it. This has been a good week or so. M.Moore and CNN's "fact checking" and now the always sturdy and reliable Webb. this is how weak positions are countered on t.v. - by engagement. yeah, it's pretty simple. why is it so exhilerating when somebody actually does it?
let's see some more of that!
Notice how Timmeh just lets Graham blather on and on with his propaganda never stopping him from interrupting Webb. A sly smile probably crept over Cheney's evil face...
Saudi Suspects Overwhelm Iraqi Legal System
Iraqi Official: 160 Saudi Suspects Tried, Hundreds More in Prison Awaiting Trial
Posted 4 hr. 4 min. ago
Riyadh, Jul 15, (VOI) – Over 160 Saudis were tried in Iraq and hundreds are still awaiting trial, Iraqi National Security Advisor Muwafaq al-Rubaie said in an interview with the Jeddah-based Okaz newspaper.
On the official number of Saudis in Iraq, al-Rubaie revealed that hundreds of Saudis have entered Iraq after the U.S-led invasion in 2003.
"Many of them were killed in suicide operations and others are still being held in Iraqi prisons and detention camps, in addition to those killed during the past four years," he added.
"The issue was open for discussion with Saudi officials and we set up a hotline with them to follow up on developments," al-Rubaie said in reference to Saudi prisoners in Iraq.
Commenting on terrorism-inciting fatwas (religious edicts), al-Rubaie said that both sides agreed on the necessity of condemning fatwas justifying or promoting terrorism.
During the interview, al-Rubaie indicated that Iraq's stability is part and parcel of the region's stability, adding, "What threatens Iraq's security will directly threaten Saudi Arabia's."
He said that most of the recruits for armed groups in Iraq are Saudis who came from neighboring countries.
"These groups receive training in Iraq and return to Saudi Arabia to threaten Saudi civilians," he said.
Describing the visit of an Iraqi security delegation that he led to Saudi Arabia last week as a success, al-Rubaie said the delegation met with high-ranking security and political officials and discussed ways to bolster security cooperation between the two countries.
** Those must be the Iranian Saudies Graham is talking about?**
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