The kids are alright
By Steve Benen Friday Jul 27, 2007 7:08amKevin notes the latest Democracy Corps poll that suggests Bush has helped drive a generation of young people into the Democratic Party’s open arms.
This is about what you’d expect, but Democracy Corps has released yet another survey demonstrating that the Republican Party is losing young people in droves. Among 18-29 year olds, 50% have a favorable view of the Democratic Party compared to only 35% for the Republican Party. There are plenty of reasons for this, but basically they hate George Bush, they hate the Iraq war, and they hate religious conservatives.
The good news, of course, is that people are brand loyal. Once they make up their minds in their twenties which party they like better, they generally stick with it for the rest of their lives. So the Republican Party’s deal with the devil to embrace the Christian Right might have helped them out for a while, but in the long term it’s a disaster.
In 1984, Reagan won 59% of the youth vote. Four years later, H.W. Bush won 52% of voters in this age group. It’s been downhill for the GOP ever since, and now only 25% of 17- to 29-year-old voters identify themselves as Republican.
I’ve seen several long-term forecasts that suggest Dems are in trouble over the next couple of decades. People are moving away from “blue” strongholds (particularly in the Northeast), and relocating to “red” states that will grow in electoral significance.
But there’s a flip-side -- the Bush era has driven the future in Dems’ direction.
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...hate George Bush, they hate the Iraq war, and they hate religious conservatives.
I don't think it is hate. I believe it is more, under Republican leadership they see their future dreams and their Constitutional given freedoms their parents had slipping away into an abyss.
Don't count your chickens just yet. How many of the current delusional Bush supporters were anti-war, long-haired, dope-smoking, left leaning kids in the 60's (Like Norm Coleman, David Horowitz, etc)?
In other words, they may be turning away from BushCo because it is currently the "cool" thing that the "cool kids" are doing, rather than the result of some epiphany that will make them lifelong progressives.
I hope that the trend continues. With his lack of experience and intelligence, he never should have been elected in the first place.
Kudos to the young people for seeing the junta for what it truly is
With News like that which was shown today (U.S. sending billions of dollars worth of very high-tech military equipment to the Saudi's who have shown they support the Insurgency in Iraq) they will see that the Republicans are more into the Military Industrial Complex and making money than they are into the American People, The Rule of Law, The Constitution and the youth of this once proud country.
You don't have to be a brainiac to see what this Administration has done to America in just Six years.
Problem is that everybody is short-sighted. The GOP has been catastrophically short-sighted in recent years, but give the dems a chance and they'll blow it too. It will always cycle back and forth. Those who say Bush has killed the GOP forever are wrong.
Well, that may be all well and good....BUT, Hillary goes around saying "I was 'tricked' into voting for the Iraq War.
Now? We have Chuck Schumer getting "tricked"...OOPS! Sorry! He was "duped":
"""Schumer: Roberts, Alito 'duped' us at their confirmation hearings """
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Schumer_Conservative_justices_duped_us_at_...
So, the Democrats are either EASILY TRICKED AND DUPED.......OR.......LYING...both are bad.
Hey Democrats! How about you STOP GETTING "TRICKED AND DUPED"? Whaddya think?
My opinion? That's a FLIMSY EXCUSE for letting the Republicans ruin the country. In fact? That's NO EXCUSE!
We here, in the blogosphere, Mr. Schumer, were TELLING YOU NOT TO CONFIRM ROBERTS AND ALITO!!!
How come WE weren't "tricked" or "duped", and it isn't even our job???????????
Sorry Chuck and Hillary, you simply DID A BAD JOB!!!!!!!!!!!
Question to Democrats: If you are voted in by us, to be the "opposing party", but you are easily "tricked" and/or "duped", then WHAT GOOD ARE YOU????????????????????
The registered Republicans that I know, pine for the Republican Party of their youth. (Yes, I'm old and I know old people.) The registered Democrats I know, are lukewarm about the Democratic party. They vehemently disagreed with the current-day Republicans but don't feel any of the minor parties have enough influence to frame any debate. They are concerned that support for a minor-party candidate benefits the Republicans and they become Democrats by default. I don't know enough about any of the minor parties, but it would seem to me that the time is ripe for them to swell their ranks.
There is no such thing as a political party in the New World Order.
Maybe the Democrats will get "tricked" or "duped" into the Iran War!
I don't understand this reasoning... if people move away from blue states, they become more conservative when they move to red states? or are you/they saying that this weakens blue states by bringing down their proportion of Democratic voters, and strengthens the right in red states by adding more 'blue' voters whose votes are 'drowned out' by the red majority?
I'll tell you what's happened in my state, Arizona... growing up, I remember that Arizona was a VERY right-wing place. Today, it is rather purple. Arizona was the first state to reject a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage. Arizona has passed citizen initiatives legalizing medical marijuana. Arizona elected TWICE (the last time in a landslide against a very conservative, 'family values' GOP candidate) a female Democrat for governor, who is widely presumed to be a closeted lesbian. Gov. Napolitano in fact will probably run for McCain's Senate seat in 2010, after she is term-limited out of running again for governor. I've gone out for the anti-war protests on numerous occasions, and often these are held at 24th Street and Camelback which is a rather posh (read, "GOP") part of town. Judging solely by the reactions we get from random drivers, there is a LOT of anti-war sentiment here in allegedly uber-conservative Phoenix.
I think it's a GOOD thing when blue voters move to red states, it makes those places more moderate as it's done here in Arizona!!!
Molnardian @ 3:
well, actually... he wasn't.
It's not either/or. 58% of the country want a viable third party.
r€nato @ 12:
The fact that you have Janet Napolitano, and Bill Richardson aren't hurting either Renato, I moved from Tucson to Myrtle Beach S.C., and it is total culture shock, but I see changes as the yanks are taking over the state. This year may flip it over.
The specter of people "relocating to 'red' states that will grow in electoral significance" presumes that blue people moving to red states does nothing to chip away at their new home's redness.
The tax policies of the Clinton "era", destroyed forever the false republican propaganda that "lower taxes means better business". The Bush "era"....is more than a Bush failure. It is a total neocon political ideology breakdown. An expose` of unscientific sociology. Basically, the death of a sales pitch, because it has never been anything more than just a sales tactic.
You cannot "destroy" business. The Communists have proved that already. Business merely re-aligns itself to the current environment. It America, that re-alignment generally comes with much cry-baby bitching and moaning from the soft arsed business community. However, we morally have an obligation to Control business. That has not been done adequately in my opinion.
Our young people are simply beyond the bullshit.
Demographics are your destiny in addition to this administrations charms on young people. Robert Lang of VA Tech has analyzed areas where they were reddish purple and has found that as the population ages they go blue. Why? they need services that repugs hate to add to budgets.
Don't know abut "young People" but the GOP certainly convinced me to join the Democratic Party. I spent my adult life as an Independent and only joined last year.
While I don;t trust Political parties, the GOP is so blatantly corrupt that I felt I had little choice.
Sounds good, but if the Democratic Party is going to continue on its downhill slide into corporatism and spinelesness, it's going to be a zero sum happening. Nothing will change. It' also going to take more than a generation to clean up the corrupted federal judicial system. Unless future voters get a whole lot smarter about whom they vote for, I don't see much changing.
Paul @ 20:
Not if the population pushes lobby reform. Only Lobby reform can save America from the self serving capitalist pig.
I know young people are angry that their choices have been so foreclosed by the neocon vision of America.
Their parents were able to go to college and have health care. Their parents could afford a home.
What is happening now is that the fortunate are able to help their children get ahead, based entirely on the fact they WERE able to get ahead under past policies.
Can my generation help their kids that way? I see parents of teens despairing over their inability to help the way their parents helped them. The current generation of parents see their pensions dissolving and college loans increasing, with the hope that when they need help, their kids can... only the kids can't, as they compete for jobs with declining or disappearing benefits packages available.
The generation retiring now got their educations via the GI bill, got their mortages in a decent housing market, were able to see the American dream... turn to dust.
I hope the younger generation stays angry.
That's assuming there IS a future. Big business has been conducting itself with little regard for the future for at least 20 years now. The Repugs conduct their business not just like they do not expect a future - they seem determined to obliterate it.
So long as Democrats bend over and take whatever outrage the Repugs decide to dish out (like stolen elections), it won't matter how many are registered on their side - unless 2-3 major media moguls join the party, and/or they grow spines.
There has been some evidence of back stiffness among the non-DLC Democratic leadership, and some skills are showing up as well. The real test will be when they are faced with the choice of a messy fight vs. a neatly folded withdraw.
Steve, great post. Can you link a couple of those long term forecasts please?
I think it can be said that the Republican Party itself (GOP) IS currently the best "recruiting tool" the Democratic Party could possibly have. They're imploding from within and those left standing are being overwhelmed by ongoing scandals, criminal investigations, etc.
I believe this group of young people will determine soon that the current two-party system is obsolete and they will morph into yet a third party.....After all, it's time. Just because our electoral system worked for a while but no longer works now is absolutely NO reason to keep using it.
The young people know the definition of "insanity".....It is: Repeating the same mistakes expecting a different outcome. The young people know this and will bring about unprecedented change in this government.
Ooo! A Townshend song title. This is truly a website after my own heart!
WereBear @ 22:
Yes and during the same time period, (and even before), we have seen the Europeans rise from the ashes of war destroyed cities, completely rearrange their government structures, become more open minded, better educated and prosper beyond Americans with a higher standard of living. All while being far more "socialist" than we are.
What do the republicans offer? dime-store patriotism, indentured servitude, and, less and less opportunity. With more and more wars guaranteed.
Among 18-29 year olds, 50% have a favorable view of the Democratic Party compared to only 35% for the Republican Party.
Hmmm.......Quite possibly the D word is more prevelant in the minds of this age group. If I were that age, I certainly wouldn't want to vote for a party that propagates war when military recruiting was ebbing. The Draft certainly got more young people interested in politics in the '60s. The unfortunate part is that the ages (18-20) most impacted by the draft couldn't vote in the 1960s.
50% Dem - 35% Rep
What is the other 15% - in jail?
On one of the most popular internet boards, The Vestibule. Mostly teens and early 20s.
In polls on the board about 40% of the people say non religious.
the kidz know that, now that they are born, they get to choose between becoming chattel or cannon fodder in a repug world. They cling to the slim hope that Dems will make this dream possible.
1970cs @ 29:
playing video games
Third parties aren't the answer, that will just divide progressives and keep repugs in a strong position. We just need to challenge the corrupted (by corporate contributions) dems in primaries so there become fewer "spineless" dems. Then we need to work on publicly funded elections. Trying to build a viable alternative party like the greens will be taking 5 steps back for 1 step forward.
Florida population has totally stalled due to collapse of homebuilding jobs, rents thru the roof, and insurance costs out of this world. California population is also nearly stagnant. All net growth in the sunbelt is Hispanic, whom the GOP have alienated for a generation. And even the old south ain't gonna like voting for a minority party that can no longer bring home the bacon in military bases, highways to nowhere, and Trent Lott centers for possum meat research. Harold Ford may be the face of the new south!
The deal with the devil is not just the recent aggressive courting of religious conservatives but dates back to the development of the "Southern stategy" in the 1960's. It has delivered electoral majorities for the Republicans for the better part of 40 years and converted the old south to a reliably Repubican stronghold.
The cost????????? A party that increasingly caters to a base of xenophobic, homophobic racists. They have lost the the once huge pro-business, fiscally conservative and socially liberal wing that once played such a large role in the party. Any attempt to expand beyond their base (Bush's disastrous attempts to appeal to the hispanic vote through comprehensive immigration reform) only serves to alienate the base.
They have painted themselves into a political corner and as the American people continue to become increasingly tolerant and accepting of the growing diversity that is our true strength, the Republicans will likely be relegated to a regional party. There only hope on the national stage is to continue to spread the divisive message of hate and fear that so energizes their base.
Having moved from Chicago to Nashville 2 years ago, I got to tell you that the Republican party has become the party of Dixie.
Although people here are extremely gracious, there is some kind of underlying rage. Many people down here are resentful of outsiders even Texans. And some are still fighting the "war between the states." Rove has taken that rage and exploited it with Southern Baptists to benefit the party of Dixie.
Thank you Karl Rove for being so short sighted.
Hey Kids!
You'd be better off by joining the Communist Party of America than either the Republican or Democratic Party.
The latter two are fully integrated criminal enterprises that are so intertwined within each other as to be nearly indistinguishable.
Well put, but we still use Cold War labeling for progressives policies. When we look at the betterment of our society as a 'progressive' rather than 'socialist', we'll make another leap forward. We need to hijack the lingo, just like the repugs did.
1. Use 'neocon!' instead of conservative as a descriptor. use venomous tone and inflection when uttering the word.
2. use 'liberal' AND 'progressive' interchangeably. do not allow the connotation of either word to be used pejoratively.
3. do not allow yourself to be shouted down by a neocon. use appropriate words to describe their nonsense. 'Lies' is a good start. 'Hate' is a good descriptor of their emotional state as well as their feelings for most americans. Openly question them on why they hate so many people for so many reasons that they would lie and believe liars for the sole purpose of bringing harm to some perceived enemy.
I have quieted all the neocons in my environments and made a few converts. They are most easy to convert when some corporate or government program is cut or reduced from which they or their family benefited - be it medicaid or road construction - or a tax increase, such as real estate tax hike, is enacted while taxes for the rich are cut.
In another 20 years or so you can throw the PAN and the PRI into the political party mix. Perhaps we'll have a shadow government in Mexico City. I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing. Certainly better than the current shadow government in Tel Aviv.
What I just don't understand is how many people want to be a Republican. I'm talking about the same kids who are stoned out of their minds, drunk like frat boys, live for porno, strippers, & womanizing, new school racists & homophobes, & still think that they are some sort of Christian patriot,... UGH!
"I’ve seen several long-term forecasts that suggest Dems are in trouble over the next couple of decades. People are moving away from “blue” strongholds (particularly in the Northeast), and relocating to “red” states that will grow in electoral significance"
But as the right wing conservative dinosaurs of the south die of replaced by migrating blue staters from the Northeast, this could tip some of these states into the blue catagory particularly the larger "purple states" like Viginia, North Carolina and Florida whose combined electoral votes = 55, the same number of electoral votes as California.
cell @ 33:
your adherence to the two party system is why you suffer. did you ever think about how easy it was for the DLC to manipulate the democrat party away from democratic voters. look at the clinton record and you'll see that he was a smiling repug; he confirmed as much with his fairly recent 'I lick boosh' tour. now moredoch funds his wife, moredoch's friends are funding Obama and all the media acts like there are no other dem candidates.
look at reid, leahy and pelosi and telly me they are NOT adjuncts of the repug party. Reid should have kicked LIEberman out simply for integrity purposes. LIEberman has helpd the repugs block 40 pieces of progressive legislation. Reid should also be screaming for multiple Impeachment hearings so he can conduct trials. Pelosi still says impeachment is off the table. If they are a second party, then the 2-party system has failed miserably. with over a third of the voters(36%) 'independent' and approval ratings for congress/senate in the 20%s, A third party is more viable than ever.
the grassroots 50-state plan for the DNC actually IS a third party and they are trying to wrest the control from the DLC/DSCC/DCCC. if you're willing to oust the current incumbent multi-term dems, than maybe you won't need a third party. but you already have proof that you can't rely on either of the two incumbent parties.
Ruthless People @ 41:
That is a slim hope at best, unfortunately. That 'mobility' needs a demographic examination. People choose where they relocate to, so I'd like to know: who is moving and where and why?
cell @ 33 & BaScOmBe @ 42. cell, right now there are no viable third parties. I agree, and I didn't mean to suggest that a party like the Greens can solve anything. I'd like to see more candidates unaffiliated with either party right now. And I think BaScOmBe is on to something about grass roots 50 state Democrats disassociating themselves from the existing structure of the Democratic party. It seemed to work in the 2006 elections, but lately Howard Dean and the 50 Staters seem to have been silenced.
your adherence to the two party system is why you suffer. did you ever think about how easy it was for the DLC to manipulate the democrat party away from democratic voters. look at the clinton record and you’ll see that he was a smiling repug; he confirmed as much with his fairly recent ‘I lick boosh’ tour. now moredoch funds his wife, moredoch’s friends are funding Obama and all the media acts like there are no other dem candidates.
look at reid, leahy and pelosi and telly me they are NOT adjuncts of the repug party. Reid should have kicked LIEberman out simply for integrity purposes. LIEberman has helpd the repugs block 40 pieces of progressive legislation. Reid should also be screaming for multiple Impeachment hearings so he can conduct trials. Pelosi still says impeachment is off the table. If they are a second party, then the 2-party system has failed miserably. with over a third of the voters(36%) ‘independent’ and approval ratings for congress/senate in the 20%s, A third party is more viable than ever.
the grassroots 50-state plan for the DNC actually IS a third party and they are trying to wrest the control from the DLC/DSCC/DCCC. if you’re willing to oust the current incumbent multi-term dems, than maybe you won’t need a third party. but you already have proof that you can’t rely on either of the two incumbent parties.
I agree mostly. I just think it starting from the ground up is shooting yourself in the foot. we have dennis Kucinich and mike Gravel already we just got to have some spine ourselves and not let people tell us they have no chance. As you said look what the DLC did to the dems in a decade or so, there is no reason a movement can't happen to shift the dem party back to the left. Corporate money is the problem. There is no evidence that your third party once it gains power will be incorruptable.
Youngsters have always been more prone to liberal ideas (usually without forethought) because its easier to care about other people when you, yourself, have less personal responsibility.
Then they grow up (and this is why when a liberal meets a conservative, they always ask how old the liberal is) and find out they have all these economic and social responsibilities now and maintaining responsibilities takes a lot of work. So these fair-weather liberals want things to be easier again, as it was when they were children (remember this when any Repuke talks about family values and when times were easier, they're trying to get people to believe they can once again act like irresponsible little children again), and these irrational fair-weather liberals become selfish, thoughtless, social and economic, conservative parasites. And the older these parasites become, the more bitter they become towards younger people and their liberal ideals and it becomes harder to reason with them.
These conservatives are no longer Americans. They don't serve any society. They are self-serving parasites. They are leeches, mosquitoes, ticks, fleas, bedbugs. They are worthless to any society that dares to care about the people within it.
naschkatze @ 44 independents are a mixed bag you get Bernnie Sanders and joe lieberman. I think the main problem is the big campaign money. If we can get the big money out of the system all the pols will start working for the people again. There will still be political differences but the debate will more honest and the goals will be for the country not the multinationals.
Actually, Bush didn't win in 2004, Kerry did.
Just read Armed Madhouse by Greg Palast. He investigated the numbers after the election. If you are black, brown, or live in an undesirable part of town they just toss your vote, because most minorities vote Democratic. The Democrats know this but they seem to sit by very passive. They need to fight.
cell, independents have to be evaluated on an individual basis. Lieberman claiming to be one is a fucking aberration: he's a Republican in independent wool. I agree with you about the money, though. It's why I look more favorably upon Obama than Hillary.
we're all on the same side, so let's look at facts.
1. in 2006 DNC grassroots beat DLC in 8 of nine, including 1 senate seat. So what's the chance in this worsening morass we call the USA that people will likely favor repugs or corporatists?
2. the media push is precisely the way we are told which candidates are 'under control' and therefore 'frontrunners'. they are either corporatist or war-supporters or both.
3. the DNC grassroots push is purposely kept off the radar for a reason: it worked!
[...] House Contact the Webmaster Link to Article iraq The kids are alright » Posted at Crooks and Liars on Saturday, July 28, 2007 [...]
r€nato @ 12:
You are correct but it also cuts the other way. In my area (Western North Carolina), we were solidly blue through the 60's, but we were suddenly discovered by the landed gentry of the flatlands and were consequently (and continuing) swarmed with wealthy country clubbers, moving the area from blue to purple. The next wave occurred with the great Cuban influx into South Florida, which drove a lot of conservatives who were fleeing the Cubans into the area. So, we end going red, though we did go purple this last time with a conservative Democrat. I expect most places like ours will be purple for the foreseeable future. The good thing about that is you can actually convince a purple voter to support reasonable ideas and candidates, something you cannot do with a pure red voter.
RMHK @ 48:
DLC Gore and DLC Kerry rolled over because they won't strongly oppose the corporatist agenda, even when it is aligned with christofascists. either way, the corporatists won. the victims are stepped over and life goes on. These cowards have the same handlers as the repygs as well (carville, matalin, etc) so where are the dems supposed to find some nads?
These young people may lean to the Democratic party,
the question is will they vote when the time comes?
The history of voter turn out by young people
is not all that comforting.
Hope I'm wrong.
Saw The Mammals last night - great live band, not the greatest studio albums. Not sure if they're working to move people to the Dems, but they're doing their part to move people away from the Bush admin...
Pretty song:
http://www.themammals.net/ci/48/aloneonthehomestead_93_48_1.mp3
This seems to be quite true. Recently, the GOP had a recruiting "party" for people under 30. They ever-so-cleverly deemed it GOPalooza. Sound that out slowly for total irony. It was held on a national level and then members of the GOP also held them locally. They did everything possible to attract people to come to this event and advertised it endlessly. Free food, free games, prizes, one big morning to night party and yet no one showed up in most places.
When you through a party and no one comes, it generally indicates a problem.
What is the point of this piece? It just goes to show that having no spine at all, taking no initiative, being non-confrontational, sitting quietly in the back seat while the drunk driver takes the car off the road for the last 14 years can pay HUGE dividends. So 10 to 15 years from now there will be this surge in the number of Dem voters and won't that be terrific? Ya know well have a good time then. To those of you that find yourself getting excited by this item in C&L - best not to make plans for those future Democratic party dividend checks.
There's nothing wrong with hate. If you don't hate where there's more than good reason to hate, there's something seriously wrong with you.
churl @ 51 hey I'm also from western nc (asheville). We need to push shuller to the left. He's an improvement over taylor but if he won't support bills like hr676 then he needs a primary challenge. If dems want to be republican light then I think we should push them left by force not look to 3rd parties that will dilute our vote.
Why should they/would they be republican?
Ask these kids how their economy and job market is! They are not the ones making the big bucks! If they even get a job at all.
And who tried to screw them on college loans? Not Democrats?
And they know THEY will be paying for this war, either with their lives or with their incomes, for the rest of their working lives.
They would have to have a damn good reason to become Republican right now.
Give Me Convenience @ 56 Nice name. DK's fan? I don't really understand peoples love of clinton. He sold us down the river. I guess he slightly sucked less than hw. Since about 1980 the usa has been drifting further and further right until now we staring overt fascism in the face.
With Democrates like we have had over the past 30 years - You report this like it is significant or somthing.
Who cares about corperate polititions besides corperations and dupes?
There are suckers born every day!
We need real politics not that heads/tails BS that has brought us here.
Besides kids make natoriously poor choices, that's why we call them kids.
The democratic party - The same party that couldn't move away fast enough from the tag 'liberal'...
Oh my! Our future is safe now because the Dems duped more than the repugs...
We might as well be talking about soft drinks...
Remember Gore's response to the thefdt in 2000???
Otis from Mayberry, NC @ 37:
Your better off joining the basket weavers society than either of the corperate parties of Amerika...
Huh?
BaScOmBe @ 38:
I disagree.
I say Socialism is NOT communism. That much is begining to be accepted among those with more than a 9th grade education.
Socialism includes capitalism, but with moral distinction. "Social Capitalist" is prime example of valid description.
The republicans are falling because they hide their intent. They have initial popularity gains then fall flat on their ass when their "INTENTIONS" become known.
Hiding your "intent" is not necessary, and, it will backfire on you.
Educating people truthfully into exactly what Socialism is, and, the varying degrees that it can be applied as government, with reference to existing national examples, is all that is needed.
Truthfully state what you stand for and why. If it is accepted as genuine as you believe it to be, it will be widely accepted.
Lies are not required in a proper government.
Bush shouldn't get all the credit, while I'm sure he helped in a big way, I would have to say it was the Republican culture of corruption and their culture of death that has been the primary force that got us into Iraq in the first place, their propping up a dead woman to show how much they value life while sending our soldiers into combat without the proper equipment, and their attacks on every American value we have, not to mention the attacks on our civil rights. The GOP has a whole drove young thinkers into the Democrats open arms but it can just as easly be the Dems who send the people back to the Repugs, the people came to the Dems wanting Impeachment and justice and have so far not seen it, even when they are doing something they don't send anyone to explain it to the laymen around the country. there's no one on the news who is on our side and even the ones who are arn't being given the info they need in terms everyone can understand. So the next time the Repugs obstruct the Dems they need to get out there and tell everyone, if we don't see something is being done then it will look like nothing is being done.
1970cs @ 29:
Too busy watching American Idol, to answer the poll!
Salmineo @ 65:
As I've always said...the future is bright...
http://www.musicforamerica.org/youthturnout
And that was almost 4 years ago...
This is the con-servatives worst nightmare, other than a woman or minority president.....
You can only keep change at bay for so long with fear, religious dogma, and magic bean solutions for the world...
Kids today are growing up in more integrated schools, sexual orientations, races, etc... The reason the con-servatives were in power for so long was the propagation of stereotypes that are being knocked down every day...because people are interacting with one another....
To answer the people that were asking about what happened to the kids in the 60s, etc... Simple...society was still separated (yeah, people partied together but then they returned home to their separate worlds)...its not so much anymore
You still see 'white flight' in the South & Southeast...but its a dying phenomena...thankfully.
That's what will keep this generation (and most of Gen X) on the path of tolerance, progress, and a future that isn't on a one way ticket to Armageddon (unless the rapture expressers of the baby boom generation are allowed to doom us all)
Is 35% support for Republicans really such good news? Yes, this number confirms a downward trend, but it means that the corrupt, war-losing, constitution-wrecking, incompetent party of Bush, Cheney, Delay and Fox still have 1/3 of young people.
This just isn't a rout for the GOP, however you slice it. As stated above, Reagan captured a big majority of the youth vote - the decline of support for Republicans after Watergate lasted only a few years. It was not a long-term event. This pattern could well be repeated.
Those who cheer today's statistics should think hard about what happens after Bush/Cheney. Once they are gone, it's a new ball game. And don't forget, Republicans retain their greatest advantages over Democrats: party discipline and organizational skill.
There's a further flip-side of people moving from "blue" strongholds to the "red" states. As the moving populations increase the electoral significance of those states, they will also take their "blue" values with them and dilute the redness. Watch for the red states to start switching sides.
My thoughts:
Who could vote incumbent with this degree of corruption? Only those so deeply entrenched in (whatever you'd call) the Republican party nowadays and their abstraction. One party has an advantage this time around because the other sucks so much. This is not monumental news as the two parties are almost indistinguishable currently, too busy playing the political game to get in touch with the people they represent.
What I think we really need now is diversion from the monopoly of the two party system. The lamentable: this will never happen with things as they are now.
I find it hilarious the way the older generation talks about young people in such a condescending way as the majority of the comments in this thread. Perhaps instead of questioning the validity of the motives of the new generation, they should look at the motives of their own generations who happen to be very conservative. The problem with the people in charge of this country right now is how far they've actually fallen - their cultural views are right smack next to the Victorians, prohibitionists, and those wild crazy businessmen who brought us the Great Depression. When today's 20-somethings take over, they're going to have to take the reins of a country that's basically no better off than it was in the 1930's. You want to know why 1/3 of the youth supports Republicans? Because they've had just about the worst examples of doing the right thing that anyone could have grown up with. So please don't talk about the irrationality of youth.
"Once they make up their minds in their twenties which party they like better, they generally stick with it for the rest of their lives."
These are LAZY folks. Aravosis (at AmericaBlog), Kos (at DailyKos), ME ... many used to be GOPers. (Actually, I am old (54) and I was only a GOPer until I was 27.)
Bottom Line: If you THINK, you aren't a GOPer. So, the goal is: make Americans THINK. No goofy American Idols, shopping 'til they drop, etc. In other words, act like an ADULT.
Big Dan @ 8:
So, if the President came to you and had a basket full of evidence that Saddam Hussein was ass on cock with Bin Ladin and nobody had yet tried to counteract that information and been discredited ( as Ambassador Wilson had been ), and all evidence to the contrary was being covered up and deemed classified - you'd vote NOT to proceed with the Iraq war.
Right. You conservative Republican assholes can continue your delusions all you want. The majority of Congress voted for the war based on the evidence that Bush's people presented to them. It wasn't until AFTER we'd already invaded that the evidence was proven to be wholly and completely false. Don't worry, you'll still have the crazy 25 percenters who will support you people no matter how much you fuck them over and destroy their lives.
The only people truly at fault were on the Intelligence Committee who were given different evidence that contradicted what was presented to everyone else - and yet STILL voted to invade. Like John Edwards (D-NC) and James Inhofe (R-OK) for example. No matter how much you have Hillary Clinton Derangement Syndrome, she wasn't on the Select Intelligence Committee. So her vote is the fault of the false information that the Bush administration fed her and the fault of the SIC that refused to due their duty to the American people and tell us in the first place that the Administration was lying to us.
and I don't want to hear about BS about how they were sworn to Secrecy. All of those mother fucker swore an Oath to protect the US Constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic. They did NOT swear an Oath to the Bush administration.
What sickens me about you righties is that no matter what Bush does to destroy this nation and everything it stands for you still cheerlead for him. Do you honestly think you're going to benefit from his dismantling of habeas corpus? Or his recent Executive Order that effectively makes the 1st, 4th and 8th amendments irrelevant? Every day a little bit more of what made this nation great dies because of that man the people in the Republican party who supported and continue to support him. Hundreds of thousands of people have died for the rights you enjoy over the last two hundred and thirty one years and now, for a little perceived and illusory political advantage you're willing to toss it all in the trashcan and anoint him and his traitorous party god.
I don't trust the Democrats as far as I could lob the entire party but right now, they're a hell of a site better than the Republicans. When they take office in 08, I'm going to make a point of watching them very carefully for corruption just as I have with the Republicans and I'm not going to be silent about it when I discover it. The only cheering I will be doing is when they are busted and put in prison for their wrong doings, just as I would have been doing if Scooter's freedom hadn't been granted by your Lord and Master. The thing you righties don't seem to grasp, despite how many of you who have actually fought for freedom in WWI and WWII is this: This isn't about who's team is better. It is about keeping America, and the ideals it represents alive.
naschkatze @ 14:
Kindly cite your source.
BaScOmBe @ 42:
This is a two party system. Your only choices are to support the Democrats or give aid to the Republicans. No matter how much you complain that the Democrats don't represent your views, I've never noticed you proposing a realistic alternative. Which third party is it you think will be able to form the next government? Which third party candidate do you think is going to be elected? Hell, we already have a couple of independent Senators. How well did Lieberman work out for you?
If you are going to attack the Democrats, I suggest you have a realistic alternative to propose. Otherwise, you're just undermining the only opposition to the GOP, which means you're doing the neocons' work for them.
The republicans simply want America to be a Corporate Republic, controllable by corporate interests. They DO NOT want America to ever be about "We the People".
They are selective, not inclusive.....ie "my kids go to college, your kids go to war"...."my school district benefits from our local wealth, your schools are poor, but we will not share....we would rather waste the money than share"....."like driving a car, healthcare is a privelege not a right"....."we don't want educated intelligent immigrants that might compete with us, we want uneducated desperate immigrants that we can exploit for furthering our selfish life styles".....ect....ect...
Shell5960w @ 74:
Wow, I truly hope that was sarcasm. 27 whole years of "laziness"? It's this kind of talk, this high-horse condescension only proves to more fully polarize our system. Of all the red states, 1/4 of the youth siding with the GOP is not a lot at all. A lot of the time I think it's just who/where you grow up.
E in Md : I am a liberal and a progressive, and I say the Democrats are not liberal...that's what their problem is. YOU think the Democrats are "liberal"? That's a laugh! That's as funny as people thinking the Republicans are "conservatives"!
Dennis Kucinich is the ONLY liberal Democrat, OPEN YOUR DAMN EYES!
Half this country didn't want to go to Iraq, but the "liberal" Dems went for it hook, line, and sinker! Because they were "duped"? Funny, half the country wasn't "duped", but 99% of the Democrats were!
Dennis Kucinich, Mike Gravel, and Ralph Nader are "liberals". Look up the definition of "liberal" and "conservative", and you'll see 99% of the Democrats are not "liberal", and 99% of the Republicans are not "conservative". I call them "corporatives", as in "they sold out our government to Corporate America"...BOTH PARTIES 99% OF THEM!
You think things are really going to change that much with a Democratic President? How about all the Democrats that voted for the credit card bankruptcy bill, like Biden? How about the Democrats confirming Roberts & Alito? Too many FACTS for you?
How about Hillary and Edwards unknowingly on a microphone, discussing getting Kucinich & Gravel (the only American Patriot hero that's a candidate/Pentagon papers/stopped the draft) out of the DNC debates? Know why? Because they're liberals and they make the rest of the field look bad by discussing issues we really care about.
Why do you think Cindy Sheehan is speaking out against the Democrats? I'm probably TOO liberal for you!
I consider my self more the "Cindy Sheehan/Kucinich/Gravel/Nader" type liberal, than any "self-proclaimed" liberals, who are beholden to corporate America.
Noam Chomsky, Howard Zinn, Amy Goodman are my heros...not Pfizer, Kraft, Chiquita, and Monsanto!
Why would Democrats be in trouble because people are moving from blue to red states? Does anybody think they will become brainwashed when they cross the border? It's not something in the water that makes people vote for Republicans, it's because they want to. What will happen is that the red qualities of the growing population will become diluted.
Hey, it's a matter of real concern to me that only 50% of young people align with the Dems. By now it should be like 95%.
And for those folks who think there isn't a difference between the two parties, consider the Supreme Court. It matters who gets to be the decider when it comes to appointing Supreme Court justices.
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