Crossing that bridge when we get to it
By Steve Benen Monday Aug 06, 2007 7:02pmMinnesota Gov. Tim Pawlenty (R) has been a favorite of the Grover Norquist crowd for quite a while, in part because of his fealty to the far-right agenda on taxes and spending. But once in a while, reality gets in the way of conservative talking points.
In the past two years, Gov. Tim Pawlenty of Minnesota twice vetoed legislation to raise the state’s gas tax to pay for transportation needs.
Now, with at least five people dead in the collapse of the Interstate 35W bridge here, Mr. Pawlenty, a Republican, appears to have had a change of heart.
“He’s open to that,” Brian McClung, a spokesman for the governor, said Monday of a higher gas tax. “He believes we need to do everything we can to address this situation and the extraordinary costs.”
Better late than never, I suppose.
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Step up, Senator Franken.
The guy's a bought-and-paid for fcuktard. Hope he can sleep at night knowing that people died because of his 'philosophy'.
................. and you can be sure that he and his wife make it known how 'christian' they are. Bollox!
The ex-senator (from Minnesota), Paul Wellstone, must be rolling over in his grave and flashing the finger to Rove and Cheney. Kind of like saying "where is all our money going?"
Think about it and re-watch how fast that bridge segment free falls.
Tpaw's modis operandi is say whatever gets him ahead at that moment, it's all a lust for power.
another contract for halli-cheney? -- watch them rebuild it out of cardboard. What will it cost to repair? $10 Billion??? You can be certain halli-cheney will charge $50 billlion.
When their opinions make them look like the jackasses they are they tend to rephrase their opinions.
What a surprising development. . .
Senator Paul Wellstone, from Minnesota, was murdered. I was just in Minnesota on business and 6 out of 10 people up there seem to agree. He was a true progressive and spoke out against the Bush fiasco from the get/go.
I'm sure he's rolling over in his grave with finger up to Rove & Chaney.
Better late then never??? Just ask the families of the dead.
There are 500 bridges around the country similar to the Minneapolis span, and "these are potential deathtraps," says Rep. Don Young, R-Alaska, former chairman of the House Transportation Committee.
"We have to, as a Congress, grasp this problem. And yes, I would even suggest, fund this problem with a tax," he says. WaPo
How about taking care of the bridges that are in place before building new ones that go no where?
The difference between Progressives and Conservatives can be put in simple terms. The Conservatives wait for things to FAIL before they will do anything about them. They have no understanding of physics or of nature. They just have this bizarre ability to frame things in simplistic terms.
Maybe Pawlenty is more concerned about getting the bridge built in time for the republican national convention being held in St.Paul next fall?
I wonder if he's open to being criminally prosecuted?
So it's a co-incidence conspiricy?
The question is not 'is the Gov open to it', it's 'are the people open to it'. Let's face it, the constant promises of even lower taxes have been so prevalent that persons promising to raise taxes are going to be met with considerable friction from the electorate.
Maybe not anymore in Minneapolis, but that's because they learned a simple lesson in economics by paying in lives and infrastructure unexpectedly. My sincere hope is that many, many others will learn the same lesson before other sacrifices are inadvertently made.
If anyone thinks the bridge collapsed because of a lack of funds, you really don't know the way our state works. If people knew it needed urgent attention it would have been fixed. I'm no fan of Tim Pawlenty, but anyone blaming the bridge collapse on lack of funds is just a reactionary troll. We're not a welfare state and if they thought we needed to redo that bridge it would've been done.
[Deleted. Conspiracy theory]
Most people don't know that ALL of our state and interstate road and bridge infrastructure in paid for by GAS TAXES,with the exception of toll roads, which is a great way to pay for it really.
This is classic Republican behavior. They're all sociopaths. Pawlenty is only responding because of the ongoing negative consequences of his behavior. Tomorrow when the spotlight is off of him he will again ignore the lives and welfare of Minnesotans.
The only solution is to make sure these mentally ill anti-social characters never assume a position that entrusts them with the public welfare. They are incapable of empathy and will fail us again and again.
Maybe instead of raising $x million for transportation through increasing taxes, Pawlenty pays $x million through a lawsuit.
bernie68 @ 13:
christopher @ 17:
You guys are the liberal equivalent of freepers.
I just stepped into the house from our National Night Out party, where a state legislator and neighbor is in attendance. When I mentioned this morning's Star Tribune headline, "Pawlenty claims he was reconsidering gas tax before bridge collapse," this MN state legislator's response was "What a pile of bullshit."
Mr. Anon @ 16:
See, there's this little problem with your theory: people DID KNOW IT NEEDED URGENT ATTENTION!! Previous bridge inspections stated that it was unstable, but those were ignored. Earlier this year they were planning on slapping steel plates to prevent the spread of cracking, but that project was canceled.
Anon, care to retract your statement?
"Structural deficiencies in the Interstate 35W bridge that collapsed Wednesday were so serious that the Minnesota Department of Transportation last winter considered bolting steel plates to its supports to prevent cracking in fatigued metal, according to documents and interviews with agency officials.
The department went so far as to ask contractors for advice on the best way to approach such a task, which could have been opened for bids later this year. "
http://www.startribune.com/462/story/1339411.html
-From the same article
"Dorgan said there was enough money in the agency's budget to pay for construction work on the underside of the bridge. But he and Gov. Tim Pawlenty acknowledged that transportation officials will face tough questions about the state's upkeep of the bridge, which has had known deficiencies since 1990."
To Mr anon (16) The fact is that roads money can be gone after more agressively and things can be fixed SOONER rather than later
by raising the gas tax! Actually when Ridge was governor of PA he raised the gas tax because it became an issue. We were 49th out of 50 for road condition!
Doesn't "He's open to that" really mean, "Forget about it!"
bones @ 24:
Yea, I live here and I've been keeping up. I was listening to NPR last Friday and they had someone on who was on the transportation commission. They said that there was some disagreement, but that at the end of the discussion everyone was in agreement as to what happened.
It wasn't a money issue. Because they asked people how much it would cost, or researched all the possible alternatives doesn't mean that we didn't add those steel plates because of budgetary concerns. From everything I've heard, the bridge had 10 years left on it, and while it was rated structurally deficient, it was still rated safe enough for driving.
Pawlenty doesn't decide which bridges get repaired and which ones don't. That is a MNDOT decision (or whatever agency that is). Mabye you didn't read everything you quoted me, so I'll bold it for you.
Dorgan said there was enough money in the agency’s budget to pay for construction work on the underside of the bridge.
The bridge work wasn't passed over because of a lack of funds.
treebark @ 25:
I'm perfectly happy with raising the gas tax. I thought it was a great idea a while ago and nothing has changed my mind.
re": The Gov.of Minniesota ? I did not know he was a Repuke ?but now that i am aware it makes more sense ;he should have made this a toll booth ,10cents for cars and 10$dollars or more for all the trucks from Mexico and Canada ;he knew this was bushes Super Hyway thru the 3 countries ,nes't pas ?Monsieur le gouverneur ? i do not know the spanish for this inconvenience on the part of GWB and his Poppy
Hindsight's 20/20...now that his job is in jeapordy he's all for it.....asshole.TO LATE...people died!
Mr Anon,
Now I'm out to the barn because horse shit out there is more rational than most of what I just read in your posts.
WHEN THE FUCK DID HALLIBURTON START BUILDING BRIDGES?
Anon, you just proved my point, [Deleted. Personal attack]
Mr ANON......still rated safe to drive?Did you happen to see the footage of the way that bridge came down?...............wow.
Anon, unlike my last post, people at MINDOT have to have a level of professionalism, and put aside partisan politics. This has not been the case in Minnesota, you cannot toe the party line year after year and after a disaster, change your mind, even though you knew it was the right thing all along. Republicans have a sick partisan mindset in current day politics. Nobody in the party is allowed to speak out. It's wrong, a bad joke to put it mildly.
I love all these people who don't live here blaming the governor because he is republican. I'm no fan of republicans, but this is Tim's fault the way Bush is responsible for WWII.
It wasn't a money issue, MnDot decided to go with more frequent inspections because the bridge still wasn't supposed to just collapse. Clearly, something else was wrong that wasn't getting caught in the inspections. But raising the gas tax 3 months ago wouldn't have fixed it.
The one thing that might have prevent this would be back in 1990. We've had years of both republicans and democrats cutting the budget for things like this. MNDot has been underfunded for decades. And you just cannot blame one party or one person for that. But even then, it more money might not have made a difference. No way to know.
Yes, people died. Tim didn't kill them. An old bridge did, one that was taking traffic it wasn't rated for, and you have to spread the blame around over the course of 20 years. And I know, as someone who did not vote for Tim, that if someone said, "hey, this bridge is gonna come tumbling down" he would have fixed it. Because that's just how we roll in Minnesota. Not even our republicans are all that republican, for the most part. Which is why, as a state, we tend to get things done. Tim is not evil. He is not George Bush. He is a Minnesotan, and while I could disagree with him all day on a host of issues, this is not his fault.
With all the things in this country that can be called a party issue, infrastructure is not one them. This is a government issue, and it is government that is dropping the ball, regardless of who has the reigns at the time. The histrionics helps us not at all.
TPaw had the gall to argue that the 35W bridge was not scheduled to be repaired with the other roadways that would have been covered by the gas tax. He really does not get the point. He has refused, ever since he got into office, to support our state's systems with taxes. So now we have a crumbling infrastructure and sixty-dollar parking tickets. We call him Gov. Tim "It's-a-Fee-Not-a-Tax" Pawlenty.
For some crazy reason, probably because the douche-bag infested suburbs have been growing over the last several years, Minnesota, a liberal state, keeps voting for Republican governors who have neglected our infrastructure. It would not be as expensive to repair now if they had employed one ounce of foresight and decided that maybe, just maybe, taxes serve a higher purpose than just going back to their senders' mailboxes.
But a higher gas tax? I'm all for conserving and cutting back but a higher gas tax isn't going to work. Like it or not it's necessity. Tax the Camel, the Bud, the JD before you put a higher burden on people. This man is being pulled from all sides. Tobacco, alcohol and energy. Whoever promises him the most gets taxed less. That's why we have lobbyist.
Po-lenty is a real piece of work. Another Republican with vicious politics covered up by a mild and affable demeanor. Another product of the vampire training these guys get from the real corporate handlers.
Maybe we need to realize the head of MnDot is appointed by the Governor??? I agree with most of what you said but it is time to take the gloves off if you want change. I'm tired of pussy democrats. You know the republicans will rip our balls off, so why let the corporate media win? Your full of Fox News if you think this is not a party issue, grow a sack!
ok, yes, let's go ahead and just make it a democrat versus republican thing, because that gets bridges fixed. Let's fall into the same pitfalls, let's do the exact thing we get mad at Foxnews for doing to us. Just be angry, don't think.
It's not just republicans that underfunded MNdot. No one wants to pay for it. I'd much rather spend my time fixing that particular problem.
bones @ 40:
Grow a sac? I'm italian, I have sac for both of us. But I don't think with it.
Anybody else check out the MSNBC Interactive map that was in the recent Mike's Blog Round up listing deficient or obsolete bridges by State? I've been scrapping some of the tables into a spread sheet format to see the worse bridges (I was wondering if I use any).
Didn't find any lower than 60 I use now. But speaking of PA. It looks pretty bad shape, bridge-wise. There are a number rated in the single digits (100 good, low bad). And I'm fairly certain I was driven over #8 (York Rd in Hatboro where it goes over Pennypack creek - here) when I was little. So I know it's a pretty old bridge.
Any other states of interest?
No, it gets people elected who care about other people. Not just the "party".
Italian, well, then, I digress.
That was a joke by the way!!
Pawlenty is about as transparent as a piece of glass and just as solid and dependable.
One way to reduce traffic is mass transit, which the Republicans fight tooth and nail. Except when it passes. Then Pawlenty is at the head of the line breaking ground, cutting ribbons and telling people how much he was pushing for it all along.
Cheney's hand picked governor. Remember that he was running for the Senate before the RNC told him to run for Governor so Coleman could run for the Senate.
Notice his spokesman said "He's OPEN to that." That doesn't mean he'll support it, it just means he'll pay it lip service.
Welcome to the land of Pawlenty.
Yeah, I said it before and I'll say it again....Recall that governor! He has put his state and the people in danger and he will continue to do so until he is replaced!
So, for all you states who are mad as hell at your governors and state reps. you can do something...Recall all of them! Make them accountable for their actions which have put US/YOU in danger!
California did it...we now have an actor who is not working with nor the people! They lie to get elected, and resend on any promises they may have told. Get rid of them...We don't need an election to do this, Recall them all!
A Day Late and a Dollar Short.
It's the "Norquist" Republican Way.
So this is a governor thats admired by Grover Norquist, a man who compared taxation to the holocaust. The man who wanted to shrink government to the point that the government can be drowned in the bathtub. The man is certifiable, totally ignorant about the purpose or functions of government, but is somehow very influential.
Its strange to me that the same people who repeatedly elected Paul Wellstone also elect someone like this as their governor, a "Grover Norquist Republican".
Has Placenta, I mean Pawlenty stood on a pile of rubble and corpses yet? It is the only thing his mentor Bush knows how to do.
-GSD
bamboozled @ 48:
Actually, Pawlenty himself said he would not veto a gas tax if it came to his desk. He said he doesn't like the gas tax, but it needs to be done.
llg @ 49:
Yes, here in Big Smoggy we started the tax cut craze and have had GOP guv'ners for all but 2 years since 1982 and our motto is:
"If it ain't broke yet, don't fix it!"
Well, the bridge is broke now, so go fix it.
Might have to raise the tax a bit higher than the last proposal, what with losing at least 5 taxpayers since then.
=my2c
Lincoln buried the Civil War dead on grounds of Robert E. Lee's home. Maybe it's time to buried the victims of Republican fiscal neglect on the grounds of Grover's, Rove's, Bush's and Cheney's homes.
Greg @ 38:
The gas tax pays for your roads and bridges. Since "drivers" use this service , they pay for it. Don't drive and you won't need repaving etc. and you won't have to pay for it. You drive, you wear out roads, you pay for the maintenance. Get it?
I believe Palwenty's political career in Minnesota is over when his current term expires. I cannot see voters electing him for governor or senator. He has national aspirations but no one will pick him for a VEEP slot in 2008, especially with the National Convention in town and near the collapsed bridge. I suspect the National Repubs will find a position for him down the road.
"Change of heart?"
Sounds more like he had his handlers put some spin on that dead organ in the middle of his chest.
Jack Canuck @ 51:
I think everyone injured in this event, and the families of those who died, should sue Grover Norquist. Yeah, yeah, I know, there's probably no legal basis for it, but he is the intellectual author of this disaster, and of many more yet to come.
We need the equivalent of the French Revolution here. Class warfare, hell yeah! This is already class warfare anyway, except it's always the rich winning it. Average people need to start hating the rich again. They hopefully we can gang up on them and soak them dry. It's going to take a lot of money to repair this country, and the decadent rich have more money than they can possibly use. No second yacht to ski behind, boo hoo. At least you'll have a better chance of fitting through the eye of the needle come judgment day.
So how many people have to die to bring about a republican epiphany? These bastard republicans have known all along that their stance on taxes has been a canard. It is not whether the citizenry should be taxed that we should be arguing over. It is what our nation does with the taxes it collects that should be fiercely debated. But these republican bastards like to twist this issue into a compaign wedge issue. Why oh why are the republicans so apt at creating wedge issues? Could it be that they dont have a leg to stand on otherwise?
Raising taxes to rebuild the bridge?
Don't be ridiculous!
Do it the republican way! A tax cut for the rich?
He ought to be open to apologizing and then resigning, too.
No, in something cyclic like this late is the equivalent of never. These assholes never do it on time!
Minnesota has a neocon Republican governor with eyes on the big seats in D.C. He used to give a crap back in the day before his aspirations went national. Now he's the typical GOPer who finds it more important to fill promises to a very few rather than ask everyone, including those who can most afford it, to invest in in Minnesota. Is the money not spent on the bridge going to cover the cost of replacing it, along with the lawsuits that certainly will follow? On the Republican scale, how does it stack up against the priceless value of the lives that have been lost? Oh yeah, GOPers know the price of everything, but the value of nothing
There are still bodies in the water... I think Timmy should be there when they pull them up.
I sent a nickel to Gov. Palwenty with a note asking how he could sleep at night.
lpmiller @ 36:
Thank you. That was exactly what I was trying to say, but you said it one helluva lot better.
No, it's not Pawlenty's fault that this happened, but ....
Exactly how does Tim think major infrastructure improvements should be paid for, with tax cuts?
This is where Republicans reflexively go into brainlock.
This is what happens when all the country's resources get tied up in the Military/Industrial Complex (1$ trillion when all related items are included Veterans, Energy, Homeland Insecurity etc.) and massive deficits incurring massive transfers of taxes to the owners of the debt to pay the resulting interest payments ($400 billion/yr) which results in no benefit to the taxpayers. A small town with a yearly budget of $500,000 needs a bridge replaced at a cost of $600,000. The residents of the town have probably paid through the years far more than the replacement cost of the bridge in income taxes, yet they will never see any of their tax money from the
federal government. Back in the '70's most likely they would have gotten the money but not now.
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