Kos on MTP: "Stop Attacking Democrats"
By Nicole Belle Saturday Aug 11, 2007 11:50am
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DailyKos founder Markos Moulitisas Zuniga did a great job making DLC Chairman Harold Ford look weak on this morning's Meet The Press. Towards the end of the segment, Ford, perhaps sensing that Markos had the better of him, reverts to Republican talking points (surprise!):
FORD: I want to do nothing more than ensure that progressive causes and interests are advanced. I want nothing more --and I know you do as well-want Democrats to win...We do nothing but help Mitt Romney, Fred Thompson, John McCain and Rudy Giuliani when we argue essentially over semantics...
MOULITSAS: Will you stop going on FOXNews and attacking Harry Reid for abandoning the troops, betraying the troops? Because you just did that a couple of days ago...
FORD: Markos, in all fairness, your site has posted awful things about Jewish Americans...
MOULITSAS: That's not true...
FORD: Your site has...now you have a site about...something about Cindy Sheehan, she uses it as a...she has a heavy presence there in talking about running against....
MOULITSAS: It's called "democracy." If you don't like regular people, hundreds of thousands of people...you're gonna have...
FORD: No, I love it...but you can't be critical of us...
MOULITSAS: Of course...you're not going to control hundreds of thousands of voices. Your organization has a dozen people, you CAN control that message. And you don't need to attack Democrats.
How many Lieberman Republican buzzwords to discredit Markos can you count? More with Markos to come...
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First and what the heck is wrong with Ford.
Looks like Harold was about to attack Cindy Sheehan. Just like Lieberman, Cheney and Bush. Harold shows which side his bread is buttered on. Sounds like the makings of a new Tennessee For Ford party? (TFF) Ford.
Fuck Harold Ford. Prick.
Kos nailed Ford.
I think the statement Ford made about DKos "posting awful things about Jewish Americans" probably is about Lieberman - an attack against Lieberman must be an attack on Jewish Americans, after all (/sarcasm).
Apparently, Ford has fallen for Faux News talking points.
Somebody slipped Ford a mickey in his Koolaid......and to think that we were all for him in the last election...If he would of won,i suppose he would of been a better option...but still....wtf is he thinking.
Ford is WAY too religious for me. Republican lite.
Ford wants no criticism, especially of Democrats who desert the party and run as independents because they can't get their own party's nomination. Ford is simply saying shut up and do it our way.
I hope Markos and his bloggers make Ford even more uncomfortable than before. People like Harold Ford are what's wrong with the Democratic Party. A party is not democratic if it is ruled top down. The very nature of democracy is a bottom up structure.
Ford does know that he lost, right? Why is he still in campaign mode?
Whose side is this guy on, anyway? Seems like ford is simply a lieberman "democrat" to me - what with the talk about anti-semitic comments on Kos' site.
With "friends" like ford, the democrats don't need more enemies.
...I think Markos also seemed conciliatory toward the end of the piece...One thing Ford said was absolutely accurate: Candidates run to the base in the primaries, and to the center in the general election--no difference in this election cycle--watch & see...
Kos rocks. Harold keeps sucking up to the people that sent money to fund the repubs "he wants your white women" ads
Ford LOST HIS OWN RACE. Shouldn't that be the answer to everything that fraud says?
Joe junior. Seeking to undermine the Democratic party from within.
(TFF)Ford
"MOULITSAS: Will you stop going on FOXNews and attacking Harry Reid for abandoning the troops, betraying the troops? Because you just did that a couple of days ago…
FORD: Markos, in all fairness, your site has posted awful things about Jewish Americans…"
Ford sounds like every republican. When asked a question he doesn't want to answer, he changes the subject. Moulitsas was talking about Reid, and Ford quickly began talking about Jews. I'm not sure that Ford is in the right party.
When Ford was in his last campaign he tried to stay too close to the middle of the road and we all see where that got him.
harold pulled a lufa boy tact...noting the comments, not the diaries or main posts
and if ford is a progressive, im a commie bastard
....why I'll bet Bush will be planting a big ole smooch on Harold any day now.
It's beginning to look like there is an actual democratic debate going on about access and who is defining messages. This is not something you will see from Republicans that walk in lock step with one another.
It sets the Dems up for criticism that they are disorganized.... and they may well be -- but the discussion is happening whilst all the Republican candidates are sepaking the same language and the voters will be choosing candidates because of their clothing and haircuts.
I really was offended by Mr. Ford. I really haven't followed him that much other than wanting him to win last year. However, I was also offended by the way MTP framed this as centrist versus liberal. It seemed like Markos really did not want to attack the DLC as being corporate whores. He seemed ok to let the DLC be labeled as "centrist."
markos should've taken him to task for that. Because it's not true, and he should've forced him to admit his lies.
His name is Ford, but he thinks like an Edsel.
-GSD
Nice to see Meet the Press having Democrats, of different varieties, on ONLY, and not just Republicans or whining 'former' Dems like Lieberman. I wonder if Russert would've moderated this sort of guest list? Or was it left for a guest host to handle while Russert was on vacation or whatever? Hmm.
Telling Fox Noise to stop attacking Democrats would be like telling the Weekly World News to stop publishing pictures of Bat Boy and Nostradamus predictions. Its just not going to happen.
Jeeze. I used to like Ford too.
But that pisses me off when he employed that Fox News strategy of digging up one crazy comment or diary and smearing the whole site with it.
Fords a moron. After coming up against the right wing hate machine himself in TN he should know better. Hate maill encouraged. Harold, call me!
Professor Farnsworth @ 19:
I just love all the concrete examples that Ford provided of "awful things about Jewish Americans…"
The media is complicit in this kind of hit-and-run "journalism" all the time.
Ford is a punk and he needs to be punked more often.
Who are these two 15-year-olds in the picture? Geez...people are getting young these days.
arroyo @ 25:
Yes he should have---and Markos should have insisted that Ford answer his question about Pox News rather than let him change the subject. A typical Repub tactic---don't like the question---change the subject. What a bunch of slimy goons.
I caught onto Harold Ford Jr. doing this too. Using O'Reilly's dishonest tactics to smear the Daily Kos just proved Markos's point about the DLC and its chairman. I mean, to equate what he himself said about Harry Reid against something that MAYBE someone posted in the comments section on his website at some point, as if to say Markos himself said them, is just sad and makes Ford Jr. look stupid.
Bill O'Reilly will now say even the head of the DLC says the Daily Kos is like the KKK. What a complete asshole Ford is. Remember, when the NJ Supreme Court said that NJ had to come up with something equivalent to marriage for gay couples, Ford took a break from his campaigning in Tennessee to go on the Imus in the morning program to condemn the court for taking such an action. How ironic. What a complete and total asshole - the definition of a Fox Democrat.
Don't forget Harold Ford is a guest on MTP today, he collects a paycheck from Newscorp (which is Fox ) because he has a CONTRACT with them--so naturally he his going to veer in Fox's direction.
I gave him money too. Sorry now.
Breaking...
Clandestine arms deal for Russian-made AK-47s, through Italian businessmen, a Dubai arms procurer...straight to who-knows-who in Iraq.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070812/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_operation_parabe...
Err, wait;
he loves democracy, but not when it includes critique of anyone on his side?
Did I get that one correct?
The Ford family money came from the funeral home business which prepared Harold for his senate run and the DLC.
I am glad FORD lost , why because he is a SOCK-PUPPET to LIE-berman. Enough said. NO I am not a person that do not like Jews or Blacks, for one I will take MANCINE WALTERS over H. CLINTON any day, then we have Russ Feingold I wish he would run for PRESIDENT, these are my type of DEMOCRATS.
Just remember to unplug your cable from your TV when you watch these Sunday shows, especially Fox and get the urge to say something embarrassing about Bush Co or Iraq.
[...] Markos and Harold Ford, Jr., of the DLC, went head-to-head on Meet the Press today. Tags: dailykos Democrats dlc dnc Elections 2008 howard [...]
1
Hail To The Chimp Says:
"First and what the heck is wrong with Ford."
Answer: Ford is a Clinton Democrat, the kind Jerry Brown warned us was a Wall street candidate.
See NAFTA.
The sad part is that the progressive bloggers had a love fest with Bill Clinton a while back.
I learned about it on this site. Clinton is the great triangulator. He and Hillary will talk your talk just enough to get more goodies for the Wall Street crowd.
The only good thing he did was stop Newt dead in his tracks with the government shutdown.
pissed off patricia @ 14:
Do I have to remind you what Jim Hightower said about the middle of the road? ;-) That the only thing in the middle is yellow lines and dead armadillos.
Bush Bites @ 23:
This is what I found disturbing, too. Ford's instinctive response to "why are you attacking Harry Reid" was "somebody found some anti-Semitic comment on your site." This puts him squarely in the camp of blog-hating journalists, and for the same reason. "Hey, I worked hard and grabbed the brass ring. I'm head of the DLC. But suddenly, that's worthless. And it's your fault, you evil blogger, you! Waaaahhhh!"
I suppose that Ford can back that up by finding a vitriolic comment about the Israeli lobby or something; even O'Reilly usually has that much. But even so, he's comparing apples to oranges and showing no indication that he comprehends the difference. How is "Markos hates Jews, nyahh nyahh" related to Ford's treachery to Reid and other Democrats?
Second, and possibly worse, is the idea that there's something wrong with providing Cindy Sheehan an e-soapbox. The word for anti-democratic politicians is not "centrist." It's "Republican."
omglawl @ 24:
Southern Democrats still feel they have to run right to stay in the "mainstream".
It's good for the Democratic Party to have different factions and sides. My biggest issue with the Republican Party is that they act like a cult. They put the Party over the country and the Party over themselves and it sickens me. I always liked the fact that the Democrats accepted varying viewpoints so even though I hate Lieberman, I think people like him are necessary for the party because it allows a entry for others who may not be Progressive in their ideals, but are totally dissatisfied with the Republicans.
blackjack @ 35:
Mine, too. BTW, it is Maxine Waters.
See inside-the-Beltwayers? Honesty isn't that hard. Try it!!!
He and Lieberman are Fox Democrats. Which is to say, Democrat bashers. They can go to hell.
Shorter Great Orange Satan: "Ford, no gives a rats ass about you or the DLC anymore."
Remember, when the NJ Supreme Court said that NJ had to come up with something equivalent to marriage for gay couples, Ford took a break from his campaigning in Tennessee to go on the Imus in the morning program to condemn the court for taking such an action."
I know, and he ran a blatantly anti-gay campaign in '06. And yet he can say with a straight face: "I want to do nothing more than ensure that progressive causes and interests are advanced." What an f'ing joke! What you advance is hate, you backstabbing monster.
Harold Ford-Lieberman (I)
Harold Ford is one of the least impressive minds and voices in the Democratic Party. And progressive he ain't.
Isn't Ford the guy that James Carville wanted to replace Howard Dean at the DNC? How lame.
Ford is clearly on the Roger Ailes/Karl Rove payroll. That Jewish quip was a "save me" talking point and a total Fox wingnut tactic. Ford is a spy, a traitor to his alleged party.
but Democrats need to be attacked. The fatal flaw of Daily Kos and Media Matters, et al. is that they put party above the professed "progressive" thought. They defend non-liberal, hypocritical dems like Hilary at the cost of their own credibility. to say that our beloved democrats are enablers of neo cons is being kind. PLEASE, MARKOS, STOP EQUATING the word Democrat with the word Liberal. It's unfortunately, pathetically untrue.
Many think Kos is moving the party left. But I think he's defining a new party. There is a clear divide between Hillary Clinton (the front runner) and what bloggers at the dailykos believe. Barack Obama is even distancing himself from dailykos. The only one out there who seems to share the same beliefs as dailykos is Cindy Sheehan. And she left the party.
Do the beliefs of the bloggers at the dailykos force them at some point to recognize that their belief system is different then the Democrat machine? Do Kos and the bloggers at dailykos recognize that they are a significant force to bring about the kind of change that Cindy Sheehan has recognized is needed?
Imagine if dailykos supported Sheehan and some of the other independents, greens, and third party candidates against the establishment! In a democracy there must be more than the Kings and Queens of the two major parties. When the parties quit responding to the people, the people have the power to vote them out. Dailykos can be a force because it commands a large audience. If Kos recognizes this, then it doesn't have to be Hillary or Rudy in 2008. It could be a third party.
Come on, Kos! Recognize that you can instigate the change!
HUGE "Red Herring" from Ford. It doesn't anymore textbook than that. Kos says "stop attacking Harry Reid" and Ford somehow justifies attacking Harry Reid by quickly pulling an unrelated issue into the discussion. Is this guy really a Democrat? Because right now I hate him like a republican for that. I have no use for anyone who goes on TV and pulls shit like that, running around pulling Logical Fallacies out of the air and using them to justify stupidity.
You Suck Harold Ford! Now I'm glad Corker kicked your ass. Traitor! Go Join the Republican Party-Traitor!
The DLC looks like a Republican operation to me. Their work looks to me to be the work of destroying democracy in America.They should disband themselves, because the only ones who take them seriously are themselves and the coprorations that own and operate the committee. Who the hell do they think they are fooling other than themselves?
Awwe don't be so hard on Ford. Just think...If we follow his strategy, it will deliver the same results as his senate bid!
Marcos is correct! Democracy many voices of ideas, through dialogs and discussion, through the process of democracy will come to find the list of concerns of the majorities. When there the people is allow to participate in the discussions, dialog and ultimately come to a solution or a mission that benefit everyone as a whole ...... that is democracy.
Some issues may be viewed as conservative, some maybe centrist, some maybe extreme left or right. But the mere fact that the speed and gauge is controlled by the people through shifting IS DEMOCRACY. WE the PEOPLE should the ones to determine their destiny and the driver (the POLITICAL SYSTEM) should take us there using the mechanics and creating the mechanics (laws and public policies) to get us there.
When the party, any party dictates, any ONE politic fail to get the message of and deliver to WE the PEOPLE, this is NO longer democracy............It is abuse of political authority leaning toward Dictatorship.
Our U.S. Constituion, Bill of Rights, Articles of Amendments, our nations LAWs are the compass and map that has been established and accepted by the WE THE PEOPLE, The three branch of government is the mechanics and vehicle that was suppose to take us there.
What we are seeing......lately.....is the parties (republicans and democrats and liberal) is high-jacking NATION into a direction where majority of the people does not accept.
This is NOT democracy. This ABUSE of authority! to go against of the vast majority. PEOPLE do not like it when they do not have a SAY on anything.
Out with the old, in with the new.
Who is covering the Dem leadership message? What is the Dem leadership message? hillery is just as bad and ford. You hypocrites look the other way when she takes rupert's money.
What does DLC stand for,
Democratic Losing Committee?
Don't Look Competent?
Don't Listen to Constituents?
We need to move away from these old guard hacks who will sell us down the river ASAP.
Ford is a semi black Lieberman.
He is just trying to make a name for himself and is bitter that he doesn't have the smarts of an Obama.
They keep talking about the horrible things that we say on these sites, yet they never bring up what the re-pubes are saying...or the fact that we are responding to a story about some fucked up right wing nuts who refuse to have a funeral for someone because they are gay. When people pull shit like that, they don't expect us to bark back because we haven't in the past.
In the past, we just shut up and try to take the higher road.....well the higher road doesn't work...it is broke.
We fight fire with fire now and we are better off.
jack jett
www.jackejett.com
doug @ 52:
Actually, that's not true. Markos himself authored a post excoriating Hillary Clinton for playing it safe and not showing leadership skills.
I think there's far too much labelling being thrown around.
This is the final straw. I will not vote for anyone who is a member of the DLC.
Kos: "Why are you attacking Harry Reid.?"
Ford: "Uhhh...What lovely weather we are having."
Harold Ford is a slightly beter version than Joementum. We can, and should, do without both.
Can somebody provide a good rebuttal to Ford's response to Moulitsas?
Moulitsas said that Ford was hurting Democrats by attacking Harry Reid, the Democratic leader in the Senate. Ford responded by saying that Sheehan was doing the exact same thing by attacking Pelosi (continuously).
It seems like they are both hurting the party (or helping -- depending on your point of view).
[...] From Crooks and Liars: DailyKos founder Markos Moulitisas Zuniga talks with DLC Chairman Harold Ford. Bascially, [...]
Good for Kos. Screw Ford and all the fake Democrats.
Don't you love the arrogance of Ford lecturing Markos on how to beat the Repugs? Yes, these DLCers know it all - they just haven't had time to show it with election and party success yet. /sarcasm
But that comment about Sheehan was way beyond the pale. Cindy wants to run against Pelosi. So what? It's her right. Pelosi should post on DKos and explain why people should continue with Pelosi as leader - talk to DKOS and explain what her strategy is. Instead Pelosi apparently thinks she is above us all, that her Democratic consultants are far more wise and knowledgeable than we the netroots, and that we would not understand the strategies they are using anyway.
Seems like when the corporate media gives a little shine for any Democrat we forget that they are still the corporate media.
How many times must we watch a conservative Democrat(Ford) vs a slightly less conservative Democrat(Kos)? And since this is Amurka and you have to be on one side of the other, we rally behind Kos, a conservative Democrat who boasts on record such things as
"This is a very liberal institution. And in a lot of ways, it really does attract people who want to make a better, you know, want to make the world a better place"
and
"Of course, they’ve got their Dirty Ops and this and that, right but as an institution itself the CIA is really interested in stable world...And even if you’re protecting American interests, I mean that can get ugly at times, but generally speaking I think their hearts in the right place. As an organization their heart is in the right place. I’ve never had any problem with the CIA."
Of course Harold Ford is totalitarian-minded. He's trash. Is Kos, and the agenda he represents, different enough to merit our love and support? Resoundingly, no!!
Otay @ 69:
Why should Pelosi post on dailykos.com? She has her own blog.
http://speaker.gov/blog/
[...] C&L’s Nicole illustrated this point in the conversation - [...]
tayinnawin @ 27:
He he!! Yes! It thought the same damn thing! And I'm young!
NoSpam,
I'd like to sock Nancy Pelosi in the mouth and knock her false teeth out. No permanent damage, not much physical pain, just a gentle wake-up call.
That self-important douchebag has absolutely no qualifications to run a quilt table at a flea market, much less the House of Representatives.
Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin, FDR and JFK are surely rolling in their graves at what a spineless, pathetic travesty the Democratic Party's become.
[...] Apparently there was an interesting exchange, and it is probably the first time on Meet the Press that they have 2 minorities and don´t make them talked about race the whole time… instead they debate your average political nonsense about how the democrats are wusses: [...]
NoSpam @ 71:
So she can speak to people on their own turf. Unless she's too important to sully herself with the unwashed masses at DKos. But more importantly, counter what Sheehan says on DKos with her own statements on DKos.
you people are way off FORD WAS VERY RESPECTFUL and if you want all the votes from us democrats that are in the middle you should try to include everyone not only you people on the far left
TIKI AL @ 6:
Posed fetchingly holding towels in the RNC men's club. (give the boy a rub for luck)
Ford is a fool. Didn't it occur to him that with a click of a mouse he would be exposed as a liar across the board? More to the point, that bald faced Big Lie about Jewish Americans is something I'll never forget. If his name is ever bandied about as a potential nominee for appointive office, a great many people will remember it, too, and seek to torpedo his ambition in the name of simple decency. And should he again run for the U.S. Senate, good luck raising cash online, Harold- you schmuck.
Not only did Ford lose, but he lost an election for an open seat. For whatever their faults, Webb and McCaskill are economic populists. They ran against Republican incumbents and won, thereby proving that returning to old time, Democratic bread-and-butter issues can win in the south.
From the late, wonderful Molly Ivins:
Mah fellow progressives, now is the time for all good men and women to come to the aid of the party. I don’t know about you, but I have had it with the D.C. Democrats, had it with the DLC Democrats, had it with every calculating, equivocating, triangulating, straddling, hair-splitting son of a b**** up there, and that includes Hillary Rodham Clinton.
http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0310-20.htm
donna16 @ 77:
What is this 'middle' of which thou speakest? The 'middle' Ford represents adores republican money. That is not 'middle'.
Don't assume WE (people) want ALL the votes from 'us' democrats, doesn't mean we're willing to water effectiveness down with a leaky Ford.
Make it simple. Vote for a republican!
NoSpam @ 66:
attacking a Democratic leader (while positioning oneself as a Democratic leader!) by taking a Republican position and repeating a Republican talking point on television does far more damage. on dailykos, sheehan is one diary amongst many, and there is a comments section to take her to task as well as egg her on. and sheehan no longer claims to be a Democrat. Harold, what's your excuse? Call me.
Ford is a dino. He's one of those fake christian republican liars.
donna16 @ 77:
Far left? You're out of your mind. There are Libertarians here, and people like myself who love market competition.
But one thing many of us agree on is we are tired of the DLC and it's blue dogs selling our country down the river by going along with the Repub talking points and refusing to stand up to the Repubs in Congress. Particularly when up to 75% of Americans want the Dems to take a hard stand against the Repubs and yet the DLC and blue dogs ignore them and kow-tow to the extreme right wing.
And Ford was not respectful. He took comments about Lieberman and used those comments to smear the DKos as anti-semitic, despite a large majority of DKos posters being Jewish but against Lieberman. This is extremely dishonest (beyond rude) and supporting The far right in their anti-left-blog attacks.
HOUND THE BLUEDOG 13!
Contend for their seats! Put their mugshots up where we can see them!
crazylove @ 85:
Amen to that, brother (or sister?)!
What me thinks is the we have a bit of sophisticated intelligence operation working here to misdirect " liberals ", because I don't buy every dog & pony show the main stream media drops on us. Oh look, two dems arguing at each other, oh one is the NEW and IMPROVED "leader" of the internet "Progressive" movement. Kos. Oh, Ford using right wing talking points for what, to prove how "liberal" Kos is ? There is something STRANGE happening here, and most people are missing it.
I looked up Allegations of Kos's CIA connections and guess what, it's TRUE, just go to My Left Wing and click on the Commonwealth Club interview with Kos, he admits to going through the CIA interview process, and EVEN told were his " first assignment" was going to be ....WASHINGTON D.C. . his excuse , I don't want to live in D.C. He also called the CIA "very liberal" "interested in World stability ". ya right.
My guess is, this to give Kos, more street cred, being in argument with a Dem who sounds as if he's a conservative. Also to elevate his position in the liberal community and be the trojan horse.
Think about it, since the beginning the corporate controlled media, has shut out every FAR left or true progressive, such as Zinn, Chomsky, Parenti, now all of a sudden we are told, here kids, heres your new internet ("progressive") leader and he has connections to the CIA, according to his OWN voice during the Commonwealth Club interview, and "every person I met was a liberal at the CIA", What the hell is going on here. This smells like a set up, O'Reilly attacks Kos, out of the blue, for several weeks, for no real reason and now he ends up on MTP, give me a break. We are being played for suckers !
As I argued MM clearly won the debate. But there is still the question of Hillary's mimicking of the Bill Clinton campaign strategy of 1992. The KOS convention and recent debates exposed her as a fraud (remember Chuck Todd's comment). She is the epitome of the DLC-Harold Ford mentality. There is some serious soul searching ahead for Democrats.
donna16 @ 77:
This is what I'm talking about. Kos doesn't represent or appeal to anyone on the Far Left.
The country is so far to the right that the Right Wing Democrats who call themselves Centrists think the Centrists like Kos are the Far Left.
Kahoneez got it right. We ARE being played for suckers. There were no Leftists on Meet the Press today. Ford represents the Right Wing and Kos some weird amalgamation of what goes for the 'Center'. The Left had no representative at all.
Forget the talking points! Look at what they claim to stand for. This was a psychological operation designed to do what DailyKos has been doing since it opened up shop--turn Democrats into Republicans in every way but name by slowing shifting the conversatoin to the ideological right by staging fake battles between the Center and the Right Wing and pretending its a battle with 'The Left'.
Thank the Sky Fairy that the days when sheepish democrats dutifully made their way to the DLC camp, to kiss the proverbial ring of the pompous Grand Poobah - those days are over! Markos did an excellent job of nailing "Mr. Centrist" and rethug-lite, Harold Ford.
Listening to these DLC-ers, you'd be right to think that their next preposterous suggestion may be to have us all sing Koombyah with the GOP 'round the campfire. Jeez.
To most people watching, Ford will have won the argument because his voice was deeper and louder. They won't even have heard what Kos was saying. That's as far as it goes with most people's thinking.
donna16 @ 77:
Heh, I'll bet ten to one you've never voted Democratic in your life.
Some very interesting troll tactics going on here today:
1. Claim to be "moderates" who won't vote Dem if we reject the DLC
2. Attack Markos as "far left" (a favorite Bill O'Reilly talking point)
3. Pretend to be a leftist and attack Markos as being a CIA stooge
Heh, we know Markos must be highly effective judging by the troll tactics being employed against him.
Whenever a troll tries to tell you what is in the best interest of the Democratic party, it's good advice to do just the opposite.
craig @ 91:
But not most people here. At venues like C&L, people's thinking tends to go a little further. But not much. We really should have a discussion about the very real fact that Kos is not The Left, but at best, the Center. The facts bear this out.
He supports the CIA, a terrorist organization.
He is a former Republican who writes that the Republican Party of George H.W. Bush, someone he looked up to as a youngster, was different and somehow worthy of his allegiance.
Kos says that the community he runs is full of people who follow their own ideology and whatever, but this is nonsense. He can and has banned those that don't toe the ideological line their.
Kos and the community he controls, isn't representative of the Left and shouldn't be confused as such.
Snowball @ 92:
You shouldn't feel the need to label opinions as people 'troll', Snowball.
Something tells me you won't be back to answer up to any of the things you stated but his admitted involvement aside, Kos does express support for the Central Intelligence Agency and their tactics, saying that defending America is sometimes 'ugly' business. Is it trolling to bring that up about someone promoted on national television as being the Left?
Of course it isn't. Your comment is designed only to deflect attention from a real issue. That being that Kos doesn't reflect the Left, but the Center. The labeling of him and his community as the Left succeeds in shifting, ideologically, those that enter into politics without a solid foundation. This is a dangerous dynamic for those of us on the Left that are interested in moving the country away from the Right and towards Left politics. If you think I am troll for saying these things, you should defend the positions Kos has taken.
Fair?
Markos, what the hell are you doing there? Somebody needs to talk to you.
I can't stand Ford and I can't stand Steny and the rest of those guys but I can't stand Markos either.
You're right, Kos has never claimed he is a leftist, just a Liberal. Liberalism is a politically centrist ideology. Liberals don't seek to abolish corporations or the accumulation of wealth, only regulate it and insure that inherited wealth doesn't create an American oligarchy.
The daily Kos has one purpose, that is to counteract the influence of groups like the corporatist DLC and faux "centrists" on the Democratic party so it can win elections and serve the interests of working/middle class people instead of corporations.
Besides, the real issue of this thread is about the DLC and how bad it has been for the Democratic party. Who's the one derailing the thread? ;)
tayinnawin @ 27:
Who are these two 15-year-olds in the picture? Geez…people are getting young these days.
15 year olds? Moulitsis served in the first Gulf War in 1989. I'm not sure of Ford's age
Hail To The Chimp @ 1:
DLC...that's what's wrong with Ford.
Democrats
Loyal to
Conservatives
Flash @ 61:
BRAVO!!! I wish I'd said that.
Ford is just another Republican plant in the Democratic Party, just as Lieberman was (and still is).
After Watergate, instead of cleaning up their criminal, un-American, anti-democracy tendencies, the Republican Party decided that the only thing that had gone wrong during Watergate was that they had been caught.
Thus, the Republicans set out to control the news media ("those damn reporters at the Washington Post and New York Times), in an attempt to control the "message" heard by U.S. citizen-voters. They also went after the Democratic Party, using any means possible, legal or illegal, to try to neutralize their main competition.
Thus, the Democratic Leadership Council was born, primarily composed of Republican "moles" in Democratic clothing.
The mad-dog Blue Dog Democrats are the result, supposed Democrats who consistently side with the "culture of corruption and greed" Republican Party.
True Democrats have their number now. True Democrats know that these pseudo-Democrats, these minority DLC Blue Dog Democrats have betrayed us all, selling us out to the fascists who have taken over the Republican Party.
So, heckuva job, Mr. Ford.
add marcos to the discussion and you actually get some issues and strategy, instead of pontificating and horse race poll.
fantastic! hope it's not too late, there is so much broken
MEET THE REPUBLICANS!
Ford is living proof of Marcos' argument. The reason he lost in TN is because he is Republican light.
NoSpam @ 66:
It's a red herring again...DailyKos made it clear to Cindy Sheehan that if she were to try a run against Pelosi in the general as an independent then that site was not a forum for her. Many urged her to make a primary run against Pelosi as a Democrat but that's as far as it went. Anyone who spends any time on the site knows that it is a partisan Dem site, for better or worse. Ford himself received a lot of support (money asking and campaign volunteering) on the site during his ill-fated run. The point of DailyKos is to get Democrats elected--what's the DLC's point?
Harold Ford doesn't even realize why he lost his senate bid in Tenn. IDIOT
More times than not it seems that "awful things about Jewish people" means having a problem with AIPAC's agenda. Nothing like throwing in a few code words to the Z-Team.
Ford's Senate loss was a two-fer. A DLC Dem went down and his House seat was picked up by a real liberal-Steve Cohen.
Harold Ford is just upset because he held a conference and no one came. I wonder why no one showed. When you hold a conference on how to speak Republicanese while pretending to be a Democrat, Harold no one with any loyalty or love of this country will come. Harold, please move on. Fox News needs a new commentator.
Did the repugs see ford and think "And we don't even need to get him to put on the black face!" Because he sure turned out to be one fine house ------ for them.
Otay @ 84:
Ford WAS very respectful,... while destroying an ideaology that includes fighting torture & ending wars.
He 'respectfully' betrays us all,... what a maroon you are!
This is what Kos is talking about,... people are more concrened with HOW things are said than WHAT is said, no matter how deplorable. What a stupid time to be alive,...
Snowball @ 98:
Please don't attempt to push aside the serious aspect of the discussion with childish netiquette about staying on topic.
The DLC is a problem. Everyone with a clue realizes this.
Kos is a fake solution. A fake solution that apparently resonates with a lot of people, just as the fake solution of the DLC seems to resonate with some. You don't like the DLC.
I don't like the DLC or Kos. I've stated my reasons and not you or anyone else has a response. Kos, a liberal who is identified nationally, as "the Left" is not representative of the Left but the Center. But as Kahoneez pointed out when he/she wrote that the whole thing is a psychological ploy, you won't find MTP or Kos explicitly stating that his movement is a Centrist response to the Right Wing elements of the Democratic Party.
But that's the truth of it.
The issue is that some of us actually want a Left wing response to the Right wing. In that Kos pretends to be that response, our efforts are hindered. This isn't off topic. You just don't want to hear it.
Ford is nothing more than a corporate shill, and a typical DLC democrat like Hillary that has been part of helping the Bushco agenda to destroy democracy, and line their own pockets.
Funny that the corporate media can not give the founder of Dailykos a interview, but have to put someone like Ford on at the same time, its a wonder they did not dredge up Ann Coulter too boot!
its called a democracy. If you don't like it get the fuck out. It boggles my mind that Ford actually tries to make an arguement that free speech is wrong.
Fireinthebelly @ 114:
You wanna see Ann Coulter in boots?
Why you kinky boy you.
Ford is a tool. He literally argues, "Don't criticize us," and smears Daily Kos with highly prejudicial inaccuracies, while he simultaneously asserts his right to attack more liberal Dems on Fox News! Which side is this guy working for?
ford goes on fox news and defends the war...need i say more? him and bush are probably fuckin each other in the oval office right now.
The Democratic rank and file has been way ahead of the DLC for some time now. America wants change. The DLC stands for a continuation of the status quo. Ford does make a point in warning that if the Democrats get too far to the Left they'll alienate the electorate. That said, I don't think that constucting the Democrats as "Republican Light" is the way to win in 2008. We have to position ourselves as the "Party of Change" and if that means jettisoning some of the pandering, inside-the-Beltway obstructionists then by all means let's do it. Let's start with ousting our cowardly Congressional leaders Pelosi and Reid, and continue by defeating our Presumptive Candidate, who also stands for nothing but More of the Same.
BDM @ 50:
Carville's a caricature and a jackass, coated in the tainted slime of his heinous, evil wife.
WHY IS "TRAITOR" harold ford AT THE HELM OF A DEMOCRATIC ORGANIZATION. THE "TRAITOR" WHO IS NOW WORKING FOR FOX NEWS IS BEING USED BY RIGHTWING WATER CARRIERS LIKE SEAN HANNITY AND OREILLY TO TRASH AND UNDERMINE THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY. HE'S ALSO GIVING AWAY STRATEGIC DEMOCRATIC PLANS FOR 08 TO SEAN HANNITY AND FOX. WE NEED TO PURGE THIS PARTY OF THIS PERFIDIOUS UNCLE TOM GOP WATER CARRIER.
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