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condi in forbes most eligible bachelorette Forbes says so, but Princess Sparklepony says it's clearly a typo.

About Bluegal aka Fran
Bluegal aka Fran's picture
Executive Producer of The Professional Left Podcast. On staff at Crooks and Liars since 2007. Master's degree from Harvard. Happy wife of Driftglass. Mother of three geniuses. Obsessive knitter. Blogs at http://bgalrstate.blogspot.com. .
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222 Comments
Harley's picture

Does not have time to testify to Congress about yellow cake.

Was subpeoned in late April. Put her in contempt also.

Dhalgren's picture

Impeach the bitch.

If that jewelery store story is true, then she's more evil than I thought.

She has a plush job waiting for her at Stamford in 2009.....

TIKI AL's picture

And she had a oil tanker named after her! That should impress the boys.

Canuknotusa's picture

I don't know what to think anymore of Crooks & Liars. At first, I thought this was a pretty good source for an unbiased, intelligent, informed look at current affairs. Lately, I'm not impressed.

Big Dan's picture

Harry Belafonte would call her an "Aunt Jemima"...

StirFry's picture

you forgot to add , "And no fatties."

Big Dan's picture

Harry called Colin Powell an "Uncle Tom"...AND HE WAS RIGHT!!!

"Forbes lists DC's population as 3,208,937?"

People read Forbes to figure shit out?

There may be that many people there during the day but only about 600,000 live there (which is why traffic sucks!)

L.A. Confidential's picture

She's owned already.

Thing Fish's picture

Miss Haversham II.

Canuknotusa @ 4:

I don't know what to think anymore of Crooks & Liars. At first, I thought this was a pretty good source for an unbiased, intelligent, informed look at current affairs. Lately, I'm not impressed.

When? How?

You thought this site was unbiased?

Hell! If i thought this site was unbiased i never would have stuck around!

(_(_)'s picture

Time to play piano? Time for watching football games? People are dieing everyday in Iraq. Impeach all of these SOBs and bring our people home.

Andre Lombard's picture
Eww

Eww

RPM-45's picture

L.A. Confidential @ 9:

She's owned already.

I agree. She's definately spoken for.

Harley's picture

(_(_) @ 12:

Time to play piano? Time for watching football games? People are dieing everyday in Iraq. Impeach all of these SOBs and bring our people home.

Rice Subpoenaed to Testify on Pre-War Intel

gene214's picture

Hey, remember when the wingnuts were touting her to run against Hillary in '08?? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Snowball's picture

She's the gay equivalent of Leona Helmsley or Imelda Marcos. Which, I'm not sure.

nsr's picture

Helicopter crash in Iraq kills 14 U.S. soldiers

This makes the per day death rate for the surge almost as high as the initial invasion of Iraq...which went on for only 6 weeks, not six months and counting. I don't think TV ads and babbling about Vietnam's going to cut it.

Tequila's picture

The troops still
aren't getting enough armored vehicles. The morning-after pill proves to be popular, but another far right organization wants to second-guess science. Our xenophobia is making us dumber. The bridge was so weak, it can't even hold up against bird droppings. Whatever happened to the lunch break?
Abe Foxman doesn't care about Armenian people.

Tequila's picture
gene214's picture

Dhalgren @ 2:

Impeach the bitch.

If that jewelery store story is true, then she's more evil than I thought.

She has a plush job waiting for her at Stamford in 2009.....

Isn't that Stanford? Stamford a shithole town in Connecticuit. Oh, maybe you were right after all.

Canuknotusa's picture

xoites defends Constitution @ 11:

Canuknotusa @ 4:

I don't know what to think anymore of Crooks & Liars. At first, I thought this was a pretty good source for an unbiased, intelligent, informed look at current affairs. Lately, I'm not impressed.

When? How?

You thought this site was unbiased?

Hell! If i thought this site was unbiased i never would have stuck around!

So, let me understand where you're coming from.
You tend to prefer to "stick around" websites that are "biased" and lend support for your "biased" view of the world. Doesn't that make you no better than a republican?

jwf's picture

Eligible for an orange jumpsuit.

Canuknotusa @ 21:

xoites defends Constitution @ 11:

Canuknotusa @ 4:

I don't know what to think anymore of Crooks & Liars. At first, I thought this was a pretty good source for an unbiased, intelligent, informed look at current affairs. Lately, I'm not impressed.

When? How?

You thought this site was unbiased?

Hell! If i thought this site was unbiased i never would have stuck around!

So, let me understand where you're coming from.
You tend to prefer to "stick around" websites that are "biased" and lend support for your "biased" view of the world. Doesn't that make you no better than a republican?

No, i prefer to stick around sites where i do not have to explain myself every freakin' day like i am obviously about to have to to YOU!

gene214's picture

Canuknotusa @ 21:

xoites defends Constitution @ 11:

Canuknotusa @ 4:

I don't know what to think anymore of Crooks & Liars. At first, I thought this was a pretty good source for an unbiased, intelligent, informed look at current affairs. Lately, I'm not impressed.

When? How?

You thought this site was unbiased?

Hell! If i thought this site was unbiased i never would have stuck around!

So, let me understand where you're coming from.
You tend to prefer to "stick around" websites that are "biased" and lend support for your "biased" view of the world. Doesn't that make you no better than a republican?

Hmm. The people who stick around this site tend to believe in progressive ideals such as peace, economic equality, universal healthcare. Yeah, I can see how that would make us EXACTLY like RepubliCONS

Chip's picture

What a waste. She has no respect from the other countries when it comes to foreign affairs. She's just a mouthpiece for the administration.

She did tell off a shoe salesgirl one time when she was dissapointed in the service. Pretty much letting the girl know she wouldn't go as far in life as Condo has.

Typical arrogant Republican with high heels.

Canuknotusa's picture

xoites defends Constitution @ 23:

Canuknotusa @ 21:

xoites defends Constitution @ 11:

Canuknotusa @ 4:

When? How?

You thought this site was unbiased?

Hell! If i thought this site was unbiased i never would have stuck around!

So, let me understand where you're coming from.
You tend to prefer to "stick around" websites that are "biased" and lend support for your "biased" view of the world. Doesn't that make you no better than a republican?

No, i prefer to stick around sites where i do not have to explain myself every freakin' day like i am obviously about to have to to YOU!

Explaining yourself is, well, kinda like, dialogue?
Is that what you're against?

26 Canuknotusa

"Explaining yourself is, well, kinda like, dialogue?
Is that what you’re against?"

I am all for dialouge. Explaining why i think as i do day after day after day gets old. I may be tired but in your case i may make an exception...for a while. Ok?

nsr's picture

Canuknotusa @ 21:

xoites defends Constitution @ 11:

Canuknotusa @ 4:

I don't know what to think anymore of Crooks & Liars. At first, I thought this was a pretty good source for an unbiased, intelligent, informed look at current affairs. Lately, I'm not impressed.

When? How?

You thought this site was unbiased?

Hell! If i thought this site was unbiased i never would have stuck around!

So, let me understand where you're coming from.
You tend to prefer to "stick around" websites that are "biased" and lend support for your "biased" view of the world. Doesn't that make you no better than a republican?

I don't think a republican would look up a word in the dictionary.

bias... 3 a : BENT, TENDENCY b : an inclination of temperament or outlook; especially : a personal and sometimes unreasoned judgment : PREJUDICE c : an instance of such prejudice

I'd say definition 3 applies to C&L sometimes, but if you're looking to pontificate about definition 4, you should try one of the right-wing boards.

Canuknotusa's picture

xoites defends Constitution @ 27:

26 Canuknotusa

"Explaining yourself is, well, kinda like, dialogue?
Is that what you’re against?"

I am all for dialouge. Explaining why i think as i do day after day after day gets old. I may be tired but in your case i may make an exception...for a while. Ok?

OK.
What did you object about Condoleezza Rice playing piano or watching football?

Having a point of view is not bias per se, it is establishing and maintaining an argument that you believe in.

Anonymouse's picture

Keeripes! Isn't Gwen Ifill gonna' be furious?

29 Canuknotusa

"OK.

"What did you object about Condoleezza Rice playing piano or watching football?"

Not a damned thing. I wish she would do a lot more of that than be a "minority" front for a racist regime.

Canuknotusa's picture

xoites defends Constitution @ 32:

29 Canuknotusa

"OK.

"What did you object about Condoleezza Rice playing piano or watching football?"

Not a damned thing. I wish she would do a lot more of that than be a "minority" front for a racist regime.

Unproductive and disrespectful.
Look - I'm as liberal as a Canadian can be, but I find the political dialogue in your floundering democracy depressing and discouraging.
Lead by example.
Stop lowering yourselves to the level of your opponents and start being proud of taking the high road.

SadButTrue's picture

HUGE thanks and a hug to Blue Gal for linking Les Enragés.org in the afternoon open thread. Just FYI Unconventional Conventionist has just posted part 3 of his Pink Floyd University series. The latest is about pigs and sheep. And I put up a post earlier this afternoon about the agents provocateurs at the SPP summit in Montebello Quebec. </blogpimping>

mudshark's picture

With the way things are right now.I would think that she has some overtime to put in.Sure she should have some leisure time...after she does her job.Name one thing that she has accomplished?......."Let them eat cake"........

"...floundering democracy..."

There you hit the nail on the head except i think you may be too optomistic. I think that train already left the station.

mister mix's picture

i'd do her :)

Canuknotusa's picture

xoites defends Constitution @ 36:

"...floundering democracy..."

There you hit the nail on the head except i think you may be too optomistic. I think that train already left the station.

Exerpt.
No real thought.
If the train left, you weren't on 'er.

xoites defends Constitution's picture

mister mix @ 37:

i'd do her :)

She...

Won't do you.

38 Canuknotusa

You seem to have confused me with a form of government.

Canuknotusa's picture

xoites defends Constitution @ 40:

38 Canuknotusa

You seem to have confused me with a form of government.

No.
I've confused you with a liberal.

mister mix's picture

Canuknotusa @ 4:

I don't know what to think anymore of Crooks & Liars. At first, I thought this was a pretty good source for an unbiased, intelligent, informed look at current affairs. Lately, I'm not impressed.

this is a blog, not the New York Times.

Canuknotusa @ 41:

xoites defends Constitution @ 40:

38 Canuknotusa

You seem to have confused me with a form of government.

No.
I've confused you with a liberal.

Please don't. I think my proper title would be "Left wing radical pacifist," that is if the very few people who are that far to the left actually accepted "Titles."

Canuknotusa's picture

mister mix @ 42:

Canuknotusa @ 4:

I don't know what to think anymore of Crooks & Liars. At first, I thought this was a pretty good source for an unbiased, intelligent, informed look at current affairs. Lately, I'm not impressed.

this is a blog, not the New York Times.

So... what does that mean, really?
Seems to me that your sights are set pretty damn low!

mister mix's picture

xoites defends Constitution @ 43:

Please don't. I think my proper title would be "Left wing radical pacifist," that is if the very few people who are that far to the left actually accepted "Titles."

radical pacifist conflict in definition. maybe you are just a left wing pacifist who would like to be radical some day?

Hail To The Chimp's picture

Was Dubya convicted of a felony or misdemeanor? Some Faux Noise lover was first arguing that Dubya never drove drunk and now he is claiming that it was a misdemeanor.

mister mix's picture

Canuknotusa @ 44:

mister mix @ 42:

Canuknotusa @ 4:

I don't know what to think anymore of Crooks & Liars. At first, I thought this was a pretty good source for an unbiased, intelligent, informed look at current affairs. Lately, I'm not impressed.

this is a blog, not the New York Times.

So... what does that mean, really?
Seems to me that your sights are set pretty damn low!

it means you don't go patron a restaurant to learn how to cook. i know where to go for what i need.
i will spell it out for you. this is a blog so "unbias" doesn't fit. the definition of a blog is simply a web log. this is john amato's (originally) web log of what he believes are crooks and liars. not all the other stuff you mentioned. if you get an intelligent, informed look at current affairs, that is extra and solely based on the views of the poster.

nsr's picture

Smooking Gun says misdemeanor.

mister mix @ 42:

Canuknotusa @ 4:

I don't know what to think anymore of Crooks & Liars. At first, I thought this was a pretty good source for an unbiased, intelligent, informed look at current affairs. Lately, I'm not impressed.

this is a blog, not the New York Times.

This may be a blog and it may not be the New York Times but what i get here is more entertaining, more informative and much more interactive. This site has its faults but i think most of those faults come from trying to protect itself. If you think this site is biased; it is. So what? We all are biased. Perhaps scientists can achieve "objectivity," but in reality they have struggled with the concept as well.

And, no, Mr. Mix, this is not directed at you. :)

Journalism is about pointing out how screwed up our governments are. If you do not get how important that concept is you are doomed.

Stanley Rosenthal's picture

NSR -
> I don’t think a republican would look up a word in the dictionary.

I disagree. They have to know what words means for it they don't, they can't know how to distort the meaning of words.

mister mix @ 45:

xoites defends Constitution @ 43:

Please don't. I think my proper title would be "Left wing radical pacifist," that is if the very few people who are that far to the left actually accepted "Titles."

radical pacifist conflict in definition. maybe you are just a left wing pacifist who would like to be radical some day?

I am fifty years old. Between 1973 (when i was 18) and 1993 i was arrested over thirty times for civil disobiedience (6 times at the White House under Ford, Carter, Reagan and Bush Sr.) I was part of a group that put homelessness on the front pages in the 1970's and 1980's and ran a 1400 bed shelter 5 blocks from thr Capital Building in DC (and is still in operation.) No, i am not looking forward to being a radical pacifist. But thanks.

nsr's picture

Heh. Indoozle.

Paul in LA's picture

She'll have to get a divorce from Gwen Ifill if she's going back on the meat market.

*Why share her bathtub of blood with anyone outside the White House Iraq Group?

America's top diplomat is a mass-murderer, a torturer, a Class A warcriminal, and an enemy of the Constitution. Too bad she missed on on crypt-time with her role model Saddam.

xoites defends Constitution's picture

Stan:)

You got that right!

mister mix's picture

xoites defends Constitution @49
journalism isn't about what you said. that's just what you would like for it to accomplish. i would like for it to accomplish that as well. but this isn't a journalistic site. it's simply a blog. this particular blog is geared towards mostly commenting on what journalists report. it's specific towards a certain view point and very bias. it can be cause it's not a newspaper nor does it attempt to be. those are different standards and serve different functions.

Stanley Rosenthal's picture

A conservo-nazi -
> I’ve confused you (xoites) with a liberal.

Dud, I'm a Liberal. I don't know how you could confuse me with (the respected) xoites.

Lewis_Stoole's picture

what???
no shoe shopping?
but it's hurricane season, the perfect time of year!

mister mix's picture

xoites defends Constitution @ 51:

mister mix @ 45:

xoites defends Constitution @ 43:

Please don't. I think my proper title would be "Left wing radical pacifist," that is if the very few people who are that far to the left actually accepted "Titles."

radical pacifist conflict in definition. maybe you are just a left wing pacifist who would like to be radical some day?

I am fifty years old. Between 1973 (when i was 18) and 1993 i was arrested over thirty times for civil disobiedience (6 times at the White House under Ford, Carter, Reagan and Bush Sr.) I was part of a group that put homelessness on the front pages in the 1970's and 1980's and ran a 1400 bed shelter 5 blocks from thr Capital Building in DC (and is still in operation.) No, i am not looking forward to being a radical pacifist. But thanks.

well, then i stand corrected. you are a radical and not a pacifist. or maybe at the moment you are a pacifist and no longer a radical. but radical pacifist is definitely an oxymoron.

ps. you ever heard of Food Not Bombs? cause you sound like one of those guys.

jeaton's picture

C'mon, the woman is a lipstick lesbian! Not that there's anything wrong with that but let's cut the crap. She's dead meat in the Bush administration. Next up, commissioner of the NFL? Well maybe a Medal of Freedom first...

mister mix @ 55:

xoites defends Constitution @49
journalism isn't about what you said. that's just what you would like for it to accomplish. i would like for it to accomplish that as well. but this isn't a journalistic site. it's simply a blog. this particular blog is geared towards mostly commenting on what journalists report. it's specific towards a certain view point and very bias. it can be cause it's not a newspaper nor does it attempt to be. those are different standards and serve different functions.

The concept of Journalism being "unbiased" is fairly new and very American. The fact is it is nothing more than a big LIE. Let's get that straight first and foremost.

It is a BIG FUCKING LIE!

Every reporter and every editorial board has a point of view.

Worse than that they have advertisers.

When was the last time you saw a news source take an advertiser to task?

Ever wonder why all the drug companies have commercials on the evening news and have had commercials on the evening news since i was a child?

mister mix's picture

jeaton @ 59:

C'mon, the woman is a lipstick lesbian! Not that there's anything wrong with that but let's cut the crap. She's dead meat in the Bush administration. Next up, commissioner of the NFL? Well maybe a Medal of Freedom first...

that's my future woman you are talking about!

"well, then i stand corrected. you are a radical and not a pacifist. or maybe at the moment you are a pacifist and no longer a radical. but radical pacifist is definitely an oxymoron."

What?

Please explain your "reasoning."

Canuknotusa's picture

xoites defends Constitution @ 49:

mister mix @ 42:

Canuknotusa @ 4:

I don't know what to think anymore of Crooks & Liars. At first, I thought this was a pretty good source for an unbiased, intelligent, informed look at current affairs. Lately, I'm not impressed.

this is a blog, not the New York Times.

This may be a blog and it may not be the New York Times but what i get here is more entertaining, more informative and much more interactive. This site has its faults but i think most of those faults come from trying to protect itself. If you think this site is biased; it is. So what? We all are biased. Perhaps scientists can achieve "objectivity," but in reality they have struggled with the concept as well.

And, no, Mr. Mix, this is not directed at you. :)

Journalism is about pointing out how screwed up our governments are. If you do not get how important that concept is you are doomed.

Umm, no.
Journalism is something slightly more complex than that.
Yes, journalism needs to challenge governments, but to suggest that it's only raison d'etre is to show that government is screwed up is simplistic, biased and insecure.
Would you suggest that journalists aren't doing their job if they agreed with sound government policy?

63 Canuknotusa

"Would you suggest that journalists aren’t doing their job if they agreed with sound government policy?"

No, not at all. Can you point to any?

nsr's picture

Canuknotusa @ 44:
So... what does that mean, really?
Seems to me that your sights are set pretty damn low!

Yeah, young fella! You better straighten up and fly right, or no more maple syrup for you!

Canuknotusa's picture

nsr @ 65:

Canuknotusa @ 44:
So... what does that mean, really?
Seems to me that your sights are set pretty damn low!

Yeah, young fella! You better straighten up and fly right, or no more maple syrup for you!

No worries. I have the usual stash that all Canuks have!
We have basements here.

58 mister mix

Define "Radical" if you would. Then define "Pacifist" and explain to me why these two ideas are mutually exclusive, if you would.

mudshark's picture

Warren Christopher and Madeline Albright were both far better Secretaries Of State..I remember watching WC spend well over a month traveling around the world doing his job...I don't think the guy saw his home for almost 3 months......

mister mix's picture

xoites defends Constitution @ 60:

The concept of Journalism being "unbiased" is fairly new and very American. The fact is it is nothing more than a big LIE. Let's get that straight first and foremost.

actually, i would argue that the concept that Journalism has to be "bias" is fairy new, thanks to Rupert Murdock.
sure we can go down the line and argue about bias news sources all day long. but the good ones know who they are and they thrive on at least trying to be unbias. My argument was to make the distinguish between blogs and news sources cause Canuknotusa didn't seem to get it. blogs neither do not try to be unbias. and usually they don't try to be journalistic. blogs like this one in particular have a specific goal to start leftist political dialogue that exposes those who are deemed as crooks and liars. it's not a news source.
just cause they have cars in the lot doesn't make them car dealerships.

Marco's picture

How does one NOT detect a political bias at C&L anyway?

If it smells like BS...

Jackie's picture

You forgot she is sleeping with the President and her bonus was the job of Secretary of State. George looked like a dog in heat when Connie came off the plane even the aides had to tell him to stop. But Connie might have to move over as a new woman is after the President. All this as Laura sits back and waits so her divorce can go through and she can finally marry her handsome rich Texas who's been waiting in the wings.

Canuknotusa's picture

mister mix @ 69:

xoites defends Constitution @ 60:

The concept of Journalism being "unbiased" is fairly new and very American. The fact is it is nothing more than a big LIE. Let's get that straight first and foremost.

actually, i would argue that the concept that Journalism has to be "bias" is fairy new, thanks to Rupert Murdock.
sure we can go down the line and argue about bias news sources all day long. but the good ones know who they are and they thrive on at least trying to be unbias. My argument was to make the distinguish between blogs and news sources cause Canuknotusa didn't seem to get it. blogs neither do not try to be unbias. and usually they don't try to be journalistic. blogs like this one in particular have a specific goal to start leftist political dialogue that exposes those who are deemed as crooks and liars. it's not a news source.
just cause they have cars in the lot doesn't make them car dealerships.

Oh, don't worry, I get it. Bloggers seem to want both sides of the cake, and the icing on the top. They like to challenge mainstream media, but don't dare hold themselves to the same journalistic standards.
Their contribution may not be helping as much as it is hurting.

I think the job of a journalist is to report the news. That doesn't mean that the journalist can't be personally biased, of course.

I mean, I haven't heard any Liberal talk show host be kind to the Dems for capitulationg to Bush. But then I don't listen to Lionel or Ed Shultz, so I could be missing something. :-)

mister mix's picture

xoites defends Constitution @ 67:

58 mister mix

Define "Radical" if you would. Then define "Pacifist" and explain to me why these two ideas are mutually exclusive, if you would.

a pacifist is someone who is passive. being passive doesn't usually bring about great social change which is radical.

mister mix @ 69:

xoites defends Constitution @ 60:

The concept of Journalism being "unbiased" is fairly new and very American. The fact is it is nothing more than a big LIE. Let's get that straight first and foremost.

actually, i would argue that the concept that Journalism has to be "bias" is fairy new, thanks to Rupert Murdock.
sure we can go down the line and argue about bias news sources all day long. but the good ones know who they are and they thrive on at least trying to be unbias. My argument was to make the distinguish between blogs and news sources cause Canuknotusa didn't seem to get it. blogs neither do not try to be unbias. and usually they don't try to be journalistic. blogs like this one in particular have a specific goal to start leftist political dialogue that exposes those who are deemed as crooks and liars. it's not a news source.
just cause they have cars in the lot doesn't make them car dealerships.

This is the only definition of Journalism i truly respect:

"Going to where the silence is. That is the responsibility of a journalist: giving a voice to those who have been forgotten, forsaken and beaten down by the powerful."

Amy Goodman

mister mix @ 74:

xoites defends Constitution @ 67:

58 mister mix

Define "Radical" if you would. Then define "Pacifist" and explain to me why these two ideas are mutually exclusive, if you would.

a pacifist is someone who is passive. being passive doesn't usually bring about great social change which is radical.

NOPE!

Spelled differently.

Being "passive" means being a grease spot on the road.

Being a "Pacifist" means ACTIVELY resisting violence. That includes violence to one's self.

Stanley Rosenthal's picture

> a pacifist is someone who is passive.

Garbage. A pacifist is someone who promotes peace.

Canuknotusa @ 72:

mister mix @ 69:

xoites defends Constitution @ 60:

The concept of Journalism being "unbiased" is fairly new and very American. The fact is it is nothing more than a big LIE. Let's get that straight first and foremost.

actually, i would argue that the concept that Journalism has to be "bias" is fairy new, thanks to Rupert Murdock.
sure we can go down the line and argue about bias news sources all day long. but the good ones know who they are and they thrive on at least trying to be unbias. My argument was to make the distinguish between blogs and news sources cause Canuknotusa didn't seem to get it. blogs neither do not try to be unbias. and usually they don't try to be journalistic. blogs like this one in particular have a specific goal to start leftist political dialogue that exposes those who are deemed as crooks and liars. it's not a news source.
just cause they have cars in the lot doesn't make them car dealerships.

Oh, don't worry, I get it. Bloggers seem to want both sides of the cake, and the icing on the top. They like to challenge mainstream media, but don't dare hold themselves to the same journalistic standards.
Their contribution may not be helping as much as it is hurting.

Hurting who?

You?

Canuknotusa's picture

Stanley Rosenthal @ 76:

> a pacifist is someone who is passive.

Garbage. A pacifist is someone who promotes peace.

No.
I think your response is un-pasifistic.(sorry - I'm inventing words)
A pacifist is someone who is against violence - physical or verbal.

nsr's picture

Canuknotusa @ 66:

nsr @ 65:

Canuknotusa @ 44:
So... what does that mean, really?
Seems to me that your sights are set pretty damn low!

Yeah, young fella! You better straighten up and fly right, or no more maple syrup for you!

No worries. I have the usual stash that all Canuks have!
We have basements here.

Under the hoose?

Canuknotusa's picture

xoites defends Constitution @ 77:

Canuknotusa @ 72:

mister mix @ 69:

xoites defends Constitution @ 60:
actually, i would argue that the concept that Journalism has to be "bias" is fairy new, thanks to Rupert Murdock.
sure we can go down the line and argue about bias news sources all day long. but the good ones know who they are and they thrive on at least trying to be unbias. My argument was to make the distinguish between blogs and news sources cause Canuknotusa didn't seem to get it. blogs neither do not try to be unbias. and usually they don't try to be journalistic. blogs like this one in particular have a specific goal to start leftist political dialogue that exposes those who are deemed as crooks and liars. it's not a news source.
just cause they have cars in the lot doesn't make them car dealerships.

Oh, don't worry, I get it. Bloggers seem to want both sides of the cake, and the icing on the top. They like to challenge mainstream media, but don't dare hold themselves to the same journalistic standards.
Their contribution may not be helping as much as it is hurting.

Hurting who?

You?

Hurting the public dialogue.

Marco's picture

Canuknotusa @ 72:

mister mix @ 69:

xoites defends Constitution @ 60:

The concept of Journalism being "unbiased" is fairly new and very American. The fact is it is nothing more than a big LIE. Let's get that straight first and foremost.

actually, i would argue that the concept that Journalism has to be "bias" is fairy new, thanks to Rupert Murdock.
sure we can go down the line and argue about bias news sources all day long. but the good ones know who they are and they thrive on at least trying to be unbias. My argument was to make the distinguish between blogs and news sources cause Canuknotusa didn't seem to get it. blogs neither do not try to be unbias. and usually they don't try to be journalistic. blogs like this one in particular have a specific goal to start leftist political dialogue that exposes those who are deemed as crooks and liars. it's not a news source.
just cause they have cars in the lot doesn't make them car dealerships.

Oh, don't worry, I get it. Bloggers seem to want both sides of the cake, and the icing on the top. They like to challenge mainstream media, but don't dare hold themselves to the same journalistic standards.
Their contribution may not be helping as much as it is hurting.

The same journalistic standards the mainstream media hold? Who are you kidding? Ever visit media matters?

mister mix's picture

Canuknotusa @ 72:

Oh, don't worry, I get it. Bloggers seem to want both sides of the cake, and the icing on the top. They like to challenge mainstream media, but don't dare hold themselves to the same journalistic standards.
Their contribution may not be helping as much as it is hurting.

that's cause THEY ARE NOT JOURNALISTS. they don't even claim to be. I challenge mainstream media myself and i'm not a journalist nor a blogger. i also like to challenge politicians, police, teachers, ect. i'm neither of those either (not a teacher anymore anyway). you don't have to be or even act like a certain occupation, group, or entity to challenge them to do what you would like them to do. and what you said only has to do with certain bloggers anyway. i think it would help if you look at blogs in their basic sense. then realize that this is only 1 type of blog with a specific purpose. then you wouldn't get confused about why they do what they do and have no bones about it.

ie if this were the http://flavoroflove.blogspot.com/ i wouldn't expect them to talk about a cooking show. this is a blog that deals with exposing certain political entities. so i don't expect unbiased journalistic reporting on all the posts.

Journalism 101:

I've learned in my years as a journalist that when a politician says 'That's ridiculous' you're probably on the right track.
Amy Goodman

Independent media can go to where the silence is and break the sound barrier, doing what the corporate networks refuse to do.
Amy Goodman

Journalism is the only profession explicitly protected by the U.S. Constitution, because journalists are supposed to be the check and balance on government. We're supposed to be holding those in power accountable. We're not supposed to be their megaphone. That's what the corporate media have become.
Amy Goodman

The media is absolutely essential to the functioning of a democracy. It's not our job to cozy up to power. We're supposed to be the check and balance on government.
Amy Goodman

War coverage should be more than a parade of retired generals and retired government flacks posing as reporters.
Amy Goodman

We have to protect all journalists, and journalists have to be allowed to do their jobs.
Amy Goodman

Canuknotusa's picture

nsr @ 79:

Canuknotusa @ 66:

nsr @ 65:

Canuknotusa @ 44:
So... what does that mean, really?
Seems to me that your sights are set pretty damn low!

Yeah, young fella! You better straighten up and fly right, or no more maple syrup for you!

No worries. I have the usual stash that all Canuks have!
We have basements here.

Under the hoose?

Yes, and aboot 10 foot below grade.

Canuknotusa @ 78:

Stanley Rosenthal @ 76:

> a pacifist is someone who is passive.

Garbage. A pacifist is someone who promotes peace.

No.
I think your response is un-pasifistic.(sorry - I'm inventing words)
A pacifist is someone who is against violence - physical or verbal.

You are indeed inventing words and discussing concepts you are totally ignorant of.

mick e's picture

um. Isn't she married already? Her "husband" is that embarrassing dumb guy, right?

mister mix's picture

Canuknotusa @ 80:

Hurting the public dialogue.

just for the fact that you and i are talking about this stuff is a good argument that it HELPS public dialogue.

mister mix @ 87:

Canuknotusa @ 80:

Hurting the public dialogue.

just for the fact that you and i are talking about this stuff is a good argument that it HELPS public dialogue.

Agreed.

You can't possibly hurt public dialouge by discussing, only by obfuscating.

Canuknotusa's picture

xoites defends Constitution @ 85:

Canuknotusa @ 78:

Stanley Rosenthal @ 76:

> a pacifist is someone who is passive.

Garbage. A pacifist is someone who promotes peace.

No.
I think your response is un-pasifistic.(sorry - I'm inventing words)
A pacifist is someone who is against violence - physical or verbal.

You are indeed inventing words and discussing concepts you are totally ignorant of.

I think you meant to say, "You are... discussing concepts about which you are totally ignorant." Kind of like your own demonstration of grammatical incompetence.

baby jesus's picture

baby jesus would do it for sport, and kind of rough

89 Canuknotusa
"Kind of like your own demonstration of grammatical incompetence."

That got me. You win!

Don Pardo! What did Canuknotusa win?

"Canuknotusa has won a three week vacation to Rush limbaugh World! He will be flown first class in a cigar smoking only CORPORATE JET! While on board this jet he will be encouraged to pinch the stewardi whose buxom boobs will overflow and give him the hard on he will need to keep when he gets to RUSH LIMBAUGH LAND! There young boys in skimpy outfits will cater to his every need. What happens next we are not allowed to say on National Television."

A preposition is not something you can end a sentence with.

An argument seems to be something you can not maintain.

DaveM's picture

there is nothing wrong with having a bias. believing in gravity is a bias. So is big foot.

The preident has a baised towrds unchecked executive power. The founding fathers didn't.

To think we go through life without biases and to have them is some how flawed is fallacious reasoning.

Canuknotusa's picture

xoites defends Constitution @ 91:

89 Canuknotusa
"Kind of like your own demonstration of grammatical incompetence."

That got me. You win!

Don Pardo! What did Canuknotusa win?

"Canuknotusa has won a three week vacation to Rush limbaugh World! He will be flown first class in a cigar smoking only CORPORATE JET! While on board this jet he will be encouraged to pinch the stewardi whose buxom boobs will overflow and give him the hard on he will need to keep when he gets to RUSH LIMBAUGH LAND! There young boys in skimpy outfits will cater to his every need. What happens next we are not allowed to say on National Television."

A preposition is not something you can end a sentence with.

An argument seems to be something you can not maintain.

I'd certainly with that agree, ah, with. Well anyway, the argument kinda ended, didn't it.

I will say it one more time.

This site has an argument.

It maintains it.

It builds on it.

To me that is not only journalism but a public service.

xoite, you're hot tonight (as usual). :-)

Canukno -
> A pacifist is someone who is against violence - physical or verbal.

Red-herring. You're trying to equate being against violence with being passave. To be most effective at preventing violence takes active pacifism.

Canuknotusa's picture

DaveM @ 92:

there is nothing wrong with having a bias. believing in gravity is a bias. So is big foot.

The preident has a baised towrds unchecked executive power. The founding fathers didn't.

To think we go through life without biases and to have them is some how flawed is fallacious reasoning.

C'mon! Believing in gravity is a bias?
Having a biased view simply means a refusal to listen to other viewpoints. Being biased is not the same as having a tendency to reject stupidity.

Thank you Stan, i always appreciate your support. :)

Stanley Rosenthal's picture

Canukno -
> Having a biased view simply means a refusal to listen to other viewpoints.

I think I see your problem Canukno. I think you're confusing the definitions of "biased" and "bigoted".

nonny mouse's picture

As if Forbes is 'unbiased'.

Reading these two 'love ads', what strikes me is how Feingold's 'messy second divorce is breathlessly mentioned well before before his campaign finance reform, Harvard degree or being a Rhodes scholar:

Russ Feingold, 54
U.S. Senator
The Wisconsin Democrat is the subject of an admiring new biography, but a messy second divorce probably puts the kibosh on any presidential ambitions he may harbor. The champion of campaign finance reform is a former Rhodes Scholar and Harvard Law School graduate.

...while Condi apparently has no embarrassing skeletons rattling around in her - um - closet whatsoever:

Condoleezza Rice, 52
Secretary of State
You might think America's top diplomat has her hands full these days, but the former political science professor also finds time to relax by playing classical piano and watching football.

You want unbiased? From ANYWHERE these days?
To quote many assundry other C&L'ers before me... Bwahahaha. Ha.
Good luck with that.

Stanley Rosenthal @ 98:

Canukno -
> Having a biased view simply means a refusal to listen to other viewpoints.

I think I see your problem Canukno. I think you're confusing the definitions of "biased" and "bigoted".

I would have to agree with you, Stan.

I listen to people. If i think they are full of it i say so. If they have a serious and real argument i listen. Most of the "critics" who show up here have a head full of CRAP. You can't argue with people who have a head full of unfounded ideas based on misinformation. All you can do is send them in a direction that may lead them to rethink their assumptions.

xoites defends Constitution's picture

Hi Nonny :)

nsr's picture

Stan- I tried reading the dictionary to him but what's the use.

nonny mouse's picture

Hi Xoites.
:)

xoites defends Constitution's picture

nonny mouse @ 104:

Hi Xoites.
:)

Speaking of scholars....

Canuknotusa's picture

Stanley Rosenthal @ 95:

xoite, you're hot tonight (as usual). :-)

Canukno -
> A pacifist is someone who is against violence - physical or verbal.

Red-herring. You're trying to equate being against violence with being passave. To be most effective at preventing violence takes active pacifism.

Sorry, but I don't agree.
If the only way to prevent violence was be being passive (with an i), why would one consider the size and physical prowess of a bar bouncer, for instance, rather than his passiveness, in ones decision to try, or not to try, to violently crash a party?
The same reason why Luxembourg wouldn't likely try to attack and occupy the US...

Rich's picture

Canuknotusa @ 4:

I don't know what to think anymore of Crooks & Liars. At first, I thought this was a pretty good source for an unbiased, intelligent, informed look at current affairs. Lately, I'm not impressed.

Seriously, when was C&L ever unbiased? C&L recognizes the bush administration and the current iteration of the Republican party for the fools' parade they are, and that's always glaringly obvious from the headlines it prints and the videos it posts and the text excerpts that appear on its first page. It isn't straight news, it's OPINION, and opinion, by definition, cannot be unbiased. I've been reading C&L for quite some time now, and never once did I consider it unbiased.

Canuknotusa @ 106:

Stanley Rosenthal @ 95:

xoite, you're hot tonight (as usual). :-)

Canukno -
> A pacifist is someone who is against violence - physical or verbal.

Red-herring. You're trying to equate being against violence with being passave. To be most effective at preventing violence takes active pacifism.

Sorry, but I don't agree.
If the only way to prevent violence was be being passive (with an i), why would one consider the size and physical prowess of a bar bouncer, for instance, rather than his passiveness, in ones decision to try, or not to try, to violently crash a party?
The same reason why Luxembourg wouldn't likely try to attack and occupy the US...

Bar bouncers?

Is that all you have been able to come up with?

nonny mouse's picture

Xoites - yes, speaking of scholars. I am proud to announce that I have turned in my master's thesis, been assured by my supervisor that I fulfilled all the necessary qualifications and I shall shortly have confirmation that I, indeed, have earned myself a bright shiny new Master's Degree. If only I could sell it on eBay, like a Purple Heart...

Tequila's picture

Apparently, refusing to reveal your source for an outed CIA agent shows "principle".

Agent Orange's picture

Agent Provocateurs

So check out these two videos(okay, well one is a photo), quite obviously these guys are undercover cops there only to cause trouble.

http://www.thestar.com/News/article/248608#
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=St1-WTc1kow
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKyeemaGnv4#

The comments and news article can provide more details/evidence to this than I am willing to right now (sorry Im tired, and disturbed). What gets me though is why has Youtube suspended comments and voting on both of these? They also happen to be the only videos on the site I could find; though, every other video I tried on Youtube works. Also there is a huge difference in the views number between the actual page and the link when you search for it. Are they trying to protect the officers, er, I mean 'protesters'? I mean, I hate buying in to conspiracy theories but when its all that they give you...

Fuckin' hell, if this is happening in the supposedly liberal haven that is Canada what do we have to look forward to? I must say though, that once again the internet provides true power for the people. Im sure this is nothing new, however, now the truth can not be kept hidden; masked, if you will.

Canuknotusa,

Dear Friend,

You seem so removed from the concept of nonviolent resistance to injustice that a mere trading of words in the comment section of a liberal blog site seems beyond what you need to grasp.

My real question is quickly becoming: "Why am I still awake?"

That question is becoming all consuming...

mister mix's picture

i think this is the point in the dialogue where everyone should realize that they completely drifted off topic and is no longer in engaged in useful conversation. you are now just arguing for the sake of it.

Canuknotusa's picture

xoites defends Constitution @ 108:

Canuknotusa @ 106:

Stanley Rosenthal @ 95:

xoite, you're hot tonight (as usual). :-)

Canukno -

Bar bouncers?

Is that all you have been able to come up with?

No.
I also came up with Luxembourg and the USA. Did you miss that?

nonny mouse @ 109:

Xoites - yes, speaking of scholars. I am proud to announce that I have turned in my master's thesis, been assured by my supervisor that I fulfilled all the necessary qualifications and I shall shortly have confirmation that I, indeed, have earned myself a bright shiny new Master's Degree. If only I could sell it on eBay, like a Purple Heart...

You can sell it if you like, But! (I am going to intentionally butcher grammer and a few other rules here) You can never lose what you have learned (short of whatever the hell they do to people's brains in the White House these days)

CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!

:)

Canuknotusa's picture

xoites defends Constitution @ 112:

Canuknotusa,

Dear Friend,

You seem so removed from the concept of nonviolent resistance to injustice that a mere trading of words in the comment section of a liberal blog site seems beyond what you need to grasp.

My real question is quickly becoming: "Why am I still awake?"

That question is becoming all consuming...

The only thing that remains to be said is then, Nighty Night!
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz,,,zedzedzedzed...

It's not "passive with an 'i'." It is "pacifist" with a "c."

nsr's picture

Rich @ 107:

Canuknotusa @ 4:

I don't know what to think anymore of Crooks & Liars. At first, I thought this was a pretty good source for an unbiased, intelligent, informed look at current affairs. Lately, I'm not impressed.

Seriously, when was C&L ever unbiased? C&L recognizes the bush administration and the current iteration of the Republican party for the fools' parade they are, and that's always glaringly obvious from the headlines it prints and the videos it posts and the text excerpts that appear on its first page. It isn't straight news, it's OPINION, and opinion, by definition, cannot be unbiased. I've been reading C&L for quite some time now, and never once did I consider it unbiased.

Obviously not. This "unbiased" argument's just a straw man for canukno to bat around and get brownie points for being an independent thinker.

Good night all. :)

It may not seem like it, but i had fun. :)

Canuknotusa's picture

[Deleted. Your concern trolling has gone far enough. What's your point? Other than concern trolling, that is....]

nonny mouse's picture

Thanks, X, sleep well.

As for the rest of yuss... can we get past this idiotic 'bias' meme now? I'm bored...

EZ's picture

She is a joke! What did she learn as a Political Science Professor? To follow the mob and lie to the citizens.

nsr's picture

See what I mean? The injured voice of truculent righteousness.

Tequila's picture

Looks like that mining boss has a lot in common with Chinese officials.

Stanley Rosenthal's picture

xoites -
> Bar bouncers? Is that all you have been able to come up with?

Actually, it was pretty good in emphasising what I was saying. :-)

It you really want to know what police officers are supposed to be, it's that they're supposed to be *PEACE* officers. Unfortunately, *PEACE*/Police officers sometimes must become proactive to maintain the peace. I trust you love that argument I came up with. :-)

"Y do you sit there so strange
Is it because you are beautiful
You must think you are deranged
Y do police guys, beat on peace guys" - Arlo ('The Pause Of Mr. Claus')

Canuknotusa's picture

Canuknotusa @ 122:

[Deleted. Your concern trolling has gone far enough. What's your point? Other than concern trolling, that is....]

If you delete my posts, I can hardly be expected to effectively address your question, can I!
Good night.

[Goodbye, eh -- Sitemonitor]

nsr's picture

Thx, SM. Just so there's no confusion, my #125 was in regard to the deleted 122. (Concern-trolling! That's the term I was trying to think of.)

Col Kilgore's picture

I think i found Condoms personal ad.

SBF,52 - Looking for little dicktater, I enjoy facism, war profiteering, piano playing, shoe shopping , photo ops and gap toothed grins. Looking for fatherland figure,Currently in love /hate relationship with sawed off monkey brained shithead from Texass but am thinking of spending more time with friends and family. Might have to penpal for a few years if Dems ever get to bottom of my criminality. Perhaps you live close to Leavonworth ,Kansas ? Might facilitate future Condijugal visits. Send me a message and ill wiretap your phones to feel you out.

bamboozled's picture

Who wants to be with someone who's focused entirely on themselves?

Condi may have a great career ahead of her, but she's washed up as a human being.

She's already missed out on the greatest experience you can have in life: having a child. Although, it's probably a good thing she didn't, as they'd end up being self-centered pricks like her. And God knows, we don't need anymore self-centered pricks in the world.

nsr's picture

Hey, wasn't she supposed to be working on anti-terrorism operations, the restoration of the economy, political activities and the mass media in Iraq? How'd that work out, anyway?

UnEasyOne's picture

Canuknotusa @ 122:

[Deleted. Your concern trolling has gone far enough. What's your point? Other than concern trolling, that is....]

gene214 @ 16:

Hey, remember when the wingnuts were touting her to run against Hillary in '08?? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Andre Lombard @ 13:

Eww

My sentiments exactly, and TYVM.

mudshark's picture

well....that was an exercise in futility....no offense you guys....but what did all that accomplish....but I'd have to give that round to X.ding

Canukno -
> If you delete my posts, I can hardly be expected to effectively address your question, can I!

Sure you can. There are folk around here reading in real time, and read every word you had to say. Just because the Site Monitor team *HEAR* @ C&L might delete your comment *AFTER-THE-FACT*, doesn't mean that you didn't have your say.

nsr's picture

Sorry, I should have said Condi was in charge of saving Iraq for a brief golden age at the end of 2003. But try to find anything about it now. I had to link to a Russian article that had phrases like "flicking a fly off Donald Rumsfeld's nose." It was probably written by a hooligan. G'night.

Karen's picture

Wow. This sparked all that discussion?

Canuknotusa @ 4:

I don't know what to think anymore of Crooks & Liars. At first, I thought this was a pretty good source for an unbiased, intelligent, informed look at current affairs. Lately, I'm not impressed.

Yes, concern troll extraordinaire, Canuknotusa, would like an editorial blog to become the objective, first-hand reporting it once was in his head. I've been away from the blogosphere for a while, and gee whiz, C&L, how dare you post a humorous look at a magazine's choice for "most eligible bachelorette" to prompt an open thread? Just when I think we've sunk to the depths!

nonny mouse @ 109:

I am proud to announce that I have turned in my master's thesis, been assured by my supervisor that I fulfilled all the necessary qualifications and I shall shortly have confirmation that I, indeed, have earned myself a bright shiny new Master's Degree. If only I could sell it on eBay, like a Purple Heart...

Congrats, nonny mouse!! And don't go thinking you can't sell the degree; people purchase degrees on the internet all the time, largely to lend fake credence to their "theories" about creationism or some such matter. :)

No, seriously, congratulations!

paranoia's picture

Donald Trump brought up this one issue with Condi, is that she never has made one deal with foreign relations.

UnEasyOne's picture

OK sitemonitor, I know I am off-topic here, so I'm not gonna be mad if I get deleted, but am I the only one who suspects that a whole lot of these trolls are professionals? Does anyone have any real info on that? CIA? FBI? RNC? FOX?

This is a serious question and I have been wondering if it has been seriously addressed by non tin hat types. If so, i would appreciate being directed to the discussion; if not, I wonder if you could set one up.

I remember extensive use of agents provocateur to disrupt the peace, civil rights and other popular causes in the 60s and 70s and every progressive site I go to seems to be well populated with these slick, thread disrupting trolls. Since you have my email address, if you would rather delete this and email a response, that is fine with me.

I would comment further on C, Rice, but she makes me gag.

Stanley Rosenthal's picture

Hi Karen! :-)

Stanley Rosenthal's picture

UnEasyOne -
> ... but am I the only one who suspects that a whole lot of these trolls are professionals?

No.

Karen's picture

Stanley Rosenthal @ 140:

Hi Karen! :-)

Hi back, Stan. I've been asleep for a little while. Is Bush still the president? I was hoping it was all a bad dream. Alas.

I saw No End in Sight tonight. No new information for my wonkish little head, but oh, to see all the government officials reciting it first-hand was overwhelming nonetheless.

medlakeguy's picture

UnEasyOne @ 139:

OK sitemonitor, I know I am off-topic here, so I'm not gonna be mad if I get deleted, but am I the only one who suspects that a whole lot of these trolls are professionals? Does anyone have any real info on that? CIA? FBI? RNC? FOX?

buddy, its an open thread

LibertyLover's picture

Wow. I take the night off and look what insues... dang.

Hey Nonny! How're you enjoying NZ?

paranoia's picture

There was a group in Salem that were hired to disrupt a peaceful protest.

Here is my nagging thought on this. Ever feel like those the escape from the Hitler regime have infiltrated to the Republican party? It seems that the further I look back to the party and the CIA involvement looks more and more like the group we fought against in WWII. The direct connection of Bush grandfather to the Nazi, and now Bush comparison of Vietnam to Iraq, still selling us fears.

Every Republican I talk to are sold into this regime on fear. I don't anyone caught Doonesbury's this weekend? had a soldier returning home and he brought back an Al-Quida looking for a place to rent.

I'm back too Karen, but after tonight, I'm not gonna be able to do these latenighters during the week, so look for me on weekends an/or get your head out of your legal books earlier during the week so you can see me. please? ;-)

Stanley Rosenthal's picture

> The direct connection of Bush grandfather to the Nazi ...

http://john-loftus.com/bushharriman.asp

UnEasyOne's picture

medlakeguy @ 143:

UnEasyOne @ 139:

OK sitemonitor, I know I am off-topic here, so I'm not gonna be mad if I get deleted, but am I the only one who suspects that a whole lot of these trolls are professionals? Does anyone have any real info on that? CIA? FBI? RNC? FOX?

buddy, its an open thread

Duh! Realized that after I posted. Thanks!

I used to think that deleting anybody's comment was an abridgment of free speech - anathema to me. That was before I encountered all these ##%@ trolls. Now I am gleeful when one gets banned, kicked, deleted or otherwise shown the door. I have no problem at all with honest arguments made by people with whom I heartily disagree. Never happens with a troll.

It is like there is a school somewhere for sidestepping, obfuscating, grammar quibbling, needling and general thread-derailing. The tactics don't vary and these trolls are all articulate and excellent grammarians - they get really excited about any tiny grammatical error, as if that invalidates an entire argument. Matter of fact that is the easiest way to spot one - make a spelling or grammar error. When they pounce, grab the net - you've got your troll!

paranoia's picture

Sometime if your lucky, you will find a grammatical error in the response from a troll on the other grammatical error. they gets so excited and make mistake. But to err is human!

UnEasyOne's picture

paranoia @ 149:

Sometime if your lucky, you will find a grammatical error in the response from a troll on the other grammatical error. they gets so excited and make mistake. But to err is human!

Don't fall for it! It's a trick!

Col Kilgore's picture

Its a troll world. there are trolls all over trying to defend the useless fucks in WH and their lost followers. Even trolls on 911 sites trying to debunk the debunkers. Goo dthing you cant debunk carved in stone science. But they try anyways. Poor dumb lemmings. I hope they follow the Chimp Asshole right over the cliff too.

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