St. Paul Cop Dragging Protester Jumped, Sprays Crowd
A St. Paul police officer who was dragging an alleged protester down the street was jumped from behind by what I'm assuming is another protester. The officer quickly sprays the surrounding onlookers who are not involved in the incident and is forced to retreat and loses both men in the process. The angle of the video doesn't show what the alleged protester had done to prompt the officer to drag him down the street.
Note: In posting this video I am not advocating attacks on police, or violence of any kind. But as I heard someone say yesterday, the Denver police prepared for protests, the St. Paul police prepared for the Apocalypse. Glenn Greenwald and Jane Hamsher have been documenting the searches and seizures on peace groups. And the Minnesota Independent documents a 17 year old peace protester and community organizer who was beaten and pepper sprayed by the St. Paul police.
I have no doubt whatsoever that many (or all) of the most agitant protesters are paid rightwing operatives.
They done it before and they are doing it now.
Do you like what you see, America.
The Mob Rules
I am not advocating attacks on police, or violence of any kind either, BUT... That was f*cking sweet.
F#ck bush/cheney and their AMERIKA
now the world's worst police state and
rival to china.
Wow, 1981???
The Mob Rules, Black Sabbath: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VgfR86c4fM
WTF would one expect from a police state? We are in fact a police state I hope most people know. Illegal search and seizure is the norm. The police have been militarizing themselves for years. We spy on our own citizens. You can get sent to an East German prison if someone even suspects you are or are consorting with terrorists. You car, your house, all of your assets can be seized for even a minor drug infraction. Just try to say something to a cop he/she doesn't want to hear, they can arrest you for SPEAKING.
This is America under Republican rule.
I can't really fault the police here. Blame these "Black Bloc" anarchists who don't believe in peaceful protest. Obviously the police haven't been that great, but when the anarchists start lobbing their own chemical irritants at delegates as they're getting off buses, everything breaks down. If they weren't there, it would be easy to contrast peaceful protest with harsh police crackdowns, instead you have anarchists destroying private property by breaking shop windows and car windows, etc, etc.
Virtually every talking head reporter I've seen on the protests refers to the protesters as "anarchists" . This isn't reporting , it's propaganda .
This is frickin horrifying. Unfortunately, I would imagine that many citizens would think well, those protesters were asking for trouble...tsk!
There is a small band of anarchist shitheads who are there only to make trouble. They have no political agenda. They are just mindless shitheads who find skateboarding too mentally challenging. They should be arrested.
I'm all for protesting. But what they are doing isn't protesting.
Fuck that. If i were that cop, I would have started shooting. Protesting is a fantastic thing. Stirring up shit when you have never even been to a ballot box is just fucking pathetic. It does nothing for the greater cause.
well, I hope Jane Hamsher is happy. Yes, I am criticizing her. I read one of her posts at Firedoglake that ended with "Denver made her ill". I am still offended that she would make a statement like that. Her whole article was that "something was happening in St. Paul".
Denver may have made her ill (she never really defined why) but Denver went all out to ensure EVERYONE had their rights protected. Nothing here in Denver could possibly come close to what is happening in ST. Paul. It wasn't buried, it just didn't happen. What little conflict that existed was over and done with in a matter of minutes. I am proud of Denver and proud of the people who came here and were treated with respect.
Perhaps the very people doing the blogging should get out in the street and really see for themselves (instead of using Google maps and text messaging) what is happening.
iraqconcilable @ 11:
Yeah, I caught that too. sheesh.
OTOH, it's kind of true. Who wants this government we now have? This isn't democracy, down with fascist tyranny.
They arrested Amy Goodman.
I called the St Paul PD and told the dispatcher whats up.
Emailed and called the mayor, police chief and Norm Coleman's office.
I visit my sis in St. Paul 2 or 3 times a year. I told the Mayor and Police Chief that we would never spend another penny
in St. Paul, ever.
And the world watches at what America has become.
yeah, no reason to jump the cop - stooping to their level only gives the media more talking points against civil protest. The cop was in the wrong to physically drag the guy. He should have called for help to carry the guy once he hit the ground.
It looks to me like the police officer in question wasn't particularly concerned with his initial suspect, as no effort was made after he was pounced upon to continue the arrest, he also didn't seem particularly affraid of his surroundings when he walked away from the scene. Not that it needs to be pointed out, but like at the DNC and the last RNC, arrests are being made to counter protests, not to stop actual law breaking.
I agree that we should never attack cops, except when they are abusing their power and violating our rights. They are supposed to enforce the laws and keep the peace--"to protect and to serve."
Self-defense is a viable reason for fighting a cop, and I think coming to the defense of someone under attack from a cop is also reasonable. We have to stop acting as if cops are a better level of citizen, a special brand of human. (While I think every cop's death is tragic, why is it usually treated as being something more important or harder to accept than a civilian's death?)
Read the Declaration of Independence. Our Founders broke free from England for a lot of reasons, including the mistreatment of citizens by government officers. America was founded on the idea that the PEOPLE have a right to stand up to power.
If McCain steals this election like Bush did this is a sample of what we will see in this country. People are angry with the corrupt leadership and struggling while everything goes to the wealthy and big business in this country. They are sick and tired and fed up and are not going to take it sitting down anymore. Maybe that is what we need to bring about change because the last two elections show it can't be done using the proper channels since they lie cheat and steal anything they can get.
Sometimes you just have to fight to put thugs away and make things right.
theWalrus @ 2:
When agents provocateur commit violence or destroy property at peaceful protests, they are carrying out false flag terrorism.
If I had that many repugnacans in town I would also prepare for the Apocalypse, given the record of the repugnacan party.
When will Americans arm themselves with pepper spray to defend themselves against the Police State? Would that be considered fair? If not, why not?
I would also note that if that were done in some countries, that cop wouldn't have been able to walk away like he did... smiling. I would imagine that some of the Pakistani protesters shown on foreign TV (for you won't see it here) would have not stopped at a little push, unless they were pushing the long knives.
We, as Americans, have forgot what dissent truly is.
Good post, Logan.
Stupid Pig walks off with his curly tail between his legs.
Leadership @ 17:
((Leadership))
I'm curious what response you heard from the mayor and Norm Coleman...
theWalrus @ 2:
AKA...brownshirts.
Registered lifelong democrat who'll be voting for Obama here...
Ok, I don't know what prompted the cop to drag the protester, but once the cop was jumped he did the exact right thing...he sprayed to protect himself and got out of the situation. He did not use extreme measures.
I can't pretend to know what's going on up the in Minn/St.P but it seems that a few people (these idiots with the masks) are bent on causing trouble while the majority is there for peaceful protest. Unfortunately the peaceful protesters will get lumoed in, it happens all the time. Sad really.
We should remember that this country was founded by revolution - and many people died to secure it.
That said, I have no doubt the "anarchists" are plants (for the most part anyway).
...And where do you get those fire extinguisher sized pepper spray guns? :D
"But as I heard someone say yesterday, the Denver police prepared for protests, the St. Paul police prepared for the Apocalypse."
Exactly! The Democratic party prepares for this and the republicans run riot over people for merely disagreeing with them. What you see here is what you get! republicans are the most self-serving, greediest pigs at the trough ever seen. I realize not every Democrat is above reproach, but honestly this thuggery is truly republican in nature and philosophy.
What was with those kids with the black and red shields that starting walking across the street to confront the cops?
citizen_pain @ 8:
dosido @ 28:
The intern at Coleman's office said that was my choice, nothing from the mayor or police chief.
This is what happens when fascists are allowed to take over America and turn it into a constitution free zone police state. Concerned citizens get pissed and take matters into their own hands.
I know someone who was brutalized by police and because cameras weren't rolling they got by with it. It went to court and police said THEY were the ones assualted. The cops lied on the stand.
It's a numbers game. The answer is more protests and more protesters. The fascist state's goal is power and they get it by control. Their number one weapon is fear. When they see they're outnumbered, they can't control, they lose power, they back down.
Our goal is clear - change. No more war. No more corporate control of our nation.
Sorry for the throwback but it's simple: Power to the people. From Jefferson to Kennedy, that's been America.
Screw Ronald Reagan. Screw Henry Kissinger. Screw George Bush. Screw Dick Cheney Screw Tom Delay. Screw the Republican party.
I think two different groups are involved here. One group are peaceful protesters and they have no intention of doing anything but getting their message out there. The others seem to be opportunist who would use any excuse to destroy things and raise hell. Sadly the second group somehow gets associated with the first group as far as the media is concerned. C-span has been covering some of the peaceful protesters marches and such. This group is not out to cause trouble, that's just not their character or their nature.
BTW I give Amy Goodman high marks for actually being out there, for seeing IN PERSON, what is happening. No second hand stories for Amy. She showed us all what is going on and it is not pretty.
No one should attack a cop, ever! In this digital age it is more than easy to prove abuse.
What we are seeing is the culmination of the reThugliCant mantra of FEAR...FEAR...FEAR that has been preached 24/7, finally coming home to roost. They have caused more division and mistrust amongst our people, that we now have neighbor against neighbor, brother against brother conflicts. If they every manage to install McPOW/Palin, then the American democracy that has withstood over 230 years of turmoil will be forever doomed. What is being manifested is only a small preview of what will come.
Obama/Biden, or kiss this country goodbye.
I know it's in the clip itself, but that clip is from Twin Cities citizen journalist organization TheUpTake. I'm an occasional contributor, and their coverage has been great. The MN Independent coverage is equally comprehensive and constant.
Chicago, 1968 !!
We MUST get this footage spread all over the internet !
The state is instigating violence. Period. There comes a point at which it's simply self defense against an illegitimate authority. If the state treats the law with such disregard, then I can't say that people should respect the law in return.
It's very sad that our police and government have been reduced to nothing more than a squad of hired goons or henchmen of comic book villain types.
I'm sorry, but why bother protesting this convention at all? To cause damage to the RNC? Hello, turn on the news lately....they don't need anyone's help to throw this election.
You might as well be protesting the Green party convention, or Ron Paul's convention. What's the point?
I don't care if someone was bent on breaking all the windows in St. Paul. No one was overturning police cars and burning them. That cop was very casual in dragging that person like a side of beef. Is this proper police procedure? I don't think so. I think you cuff 'em and put them in a car and ship them off. You don't drag them.
The cop then sprays the people with cameras.
I respect law enforcement, not thuggery.
Civil disobedience goes up in times of economic uncertainty, wars and individual rights and freedoms trampled being on. This is where we're at as a nation after a decade of Rethuglican fascist rule.
"You fucking fascist!"
-The Big Lebowski
IdiotShrub @ 41:
Agree. I suspect some of this is staged by Little Roves so they have visuals for their "anarchy" campaign theme...this is the talking point. Interesting that so many talking heads are using the same exact word. Yeah, tinfoil is sparkling today.
pissed off patricia @ 39:
POP...two groups indeed...but the second group you mention may not be simply rabble rousers....think brownshirts. agit-prop.
eastriver @ 13:
What's protesting then? Sitting at home typing angry comments in a blog like we're doing right now? BS. As long as its not violent the aim of any protest is to inconvenience people. I haven't seen any images of anything that would remotely constitute violent behavior from protesters.
I like the French word for protest "une manifestation", because protesting doesn't always have to have big signs and a clear message. Its all about a sovereign people manifesting their power and their discontent.
The problem is that Americans have forgotten that WE are sovereign. Hell, I don't even think we are anymore.
First it's no smoking...
Then no drinking in public ...
Then no protesting outside of the "free speech zone"...
Then no screaming or expressing anger in public ...
What's next??
My guess: NO TALKING.
L.A. Confidential @ 34:
These kids.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiJ3ZJmhdLs
I'd have to give a pass on his spraying the crowd, given that he'd just been jumped.
That said, it's indicative of pretty bad police-work that he ended up in that situation to begin with. Why was this guy trying to take on a mob alone?
Mr. Jefferson, we need you:
We hold these truths to be self-evident…
…That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, - That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. …
How agent provocateurs work... Evidence... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=St1-WTc1kow
I've got to say that the police in PHX AZ are much better. We seem to see the same few cops at our peaceful demonstrations and know some of them by name and greet them when we meet. I actually feel SAFER with these guys protecting my First Amendment rights.
I've heard that there have been problems at some of the immigration rallies, but the source was not too reliable = corporate "news"paper.
Leadership @ 49:
Leadership...I am in agreement with you for the most part.
However...we can't let them run roughshod over us anymore.
At some point, peaceful means of protest may no longer work.
At some point, we may have no choice but to defend ourselves, violently if necessary.
I hope it doesn't come to that, ever.
Has Faux News tried and convicted any of the protesters yet? Funny, for the most part these protest have been peaceful. But listening to Faux News you think this was the apocalypse. I thought protests were legal?
It's sad to see what is happening in Minnesota (my birthplace), but this is a weak posting...you admit you do not know the circumstances, and though you say " I am not advocating attacks on police," your inference says otherwise (a rally cry readily taken up in the comments). Attacking the policeman is a recipe for disaster. Given the attitude law enforcement brought to the RNC, we are a step away from another Kent State. For law enforcement, this video will serve to reinforce police state like actions...they rely on such responses to serve as propoganda. I don't want the next video I watch to be of protestors lying in the street in a pool of blood.
dosido @ 28:
Leadership @ 17:
They arrested Amy Goodman.
I called the St Paul PD and told the dispatcher whats up.
Emailed and called the mayor, police chief and Norm Coleman’s office.
I visit my sis in St. Paul 2 or 3 times a year. I told the Mayor and Police Chief that we would never spend another penny
in St. Paul, ever.
((Leadership))
I’m curious what response you heard from the mayor and Norm Coleman…
The intern at Coleman’s office said that was my choice, nothing from the mayor or police chief.
Translation: fuck you, you made your statement, now get lost. Typical response from Coleman and his ilk.
Leadership @ 49:
You call posters assholes for calling cops pigs. There's a word, hypocritical. Learn it.
Canadian Police MASQUERADING as PROTESTERS INCITING VIOLENCE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wm2si152ncQ
L.A. Confidential @ 53:
Disguting video. Who are we to lecture China and Russia about human rights abuses and squelching rights and freedoms?
These protests are mild compared to what the founding fathers advocated we do when our government stops representing the people.
Ruthless People @ 65:
Or, maybe, "invading sovereign nations?"
the Denver police prepared for protests, the St. Paul police prepared for the Apocalypse
They didn't get an apocalypse...so maybe the plan is to start one?
One person freed from the Republican gulag. Inside the convention Republicans pat themselves on their backs telling themselves they are brave patriots while the real patriots are on the streets facing down tyranny and working to reclaim America for the people.
Mick Piobr @ 67:
Exactly. Just other examples of how people around the world laugh in our faces when we preach morality. BushCo and the GOP have made it so we can't say shit to nobody anymore.
What are you people thinking and talking about?
That Cop puts himself in "harms way" everytime he goes on duty and because of that he deserves our respect and admiration.
He was doing a job that he was trained for - and - he was alone. I think he did the right thing - protect and serve - protecting himself and others in close proximity. Serve - to leave an area that is potentially dangerous. They will get the "tough guy" that attacked the cop. The boys in blue DO NOT BACK DOWN. That's part of their training.
You know who joins the police forces in this country? Our veterans. So, they are heroic when serving our country in war, but not when they put on the blue uniform. Get a life!
Wow, 1981???
The Mob Rules, Black Sabbath: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VgfR86c4fM
the highest i've even been at a concert, maybe ever, i don't know. i was STONED maaaaan.
sorry, i can't think about how crappy america became all the time.
Ruthless People @ 65:
Disguting video. Who are we to lecture China and Russia about human rights abuses and squelching rights and freedoms?
Republicans just seem have a knack for creating trouble, mayhem, conflict, and making enemies out of everyone.
Something they really ought to think hard about. But won't obviously. It's to profitable for their clique.
Warning to everyone.. if and when shit really goes down we need the local police on our side. Be reasonable in your protests!
Thomas Stone @ 63:
No I am calling the people posting on this blog assholes for calling the cops pigs. The FOUNDATION of the progressive
movement is NONVIOLENCE. There is a way to defeat those brutal cops, committing violence agianst them is no the way.
This blog is TOO valuable to be tainted by this vicious discourse!!!
Alice X - (Chomsky Nader) - status quObama - change you can pretend in - @ 55:
I have said it before. If they alive today -
Jefferson would start writing pieces for every news and internet organization.
Adams would drag them into court and spellbind any jury into putting their butts in jail.
Franklin would charm and trick and speak until they saw that the end was coming.
And Washington -
Washington would gather brave men and women together, kiss Martha good bye and lead a revolution. And once he had won and got our freedoms back, he would go home.
Leadership @ 21:
Is it inaccurate in some way? It follows the theme of the story and it's pretty funny. The humor is caused by the initial incongruity of the second line w.r.t. the first -- you think he's going one way and BAM! The punchline. We call this type of humor a "joke".
It is ironic that you would pick this image. This will only build sympathy and support for the police. There are many more appropriate images that would get your point across without tarring all protester and activists. A more in depth analysis is needed.
Discussion of Police tactics can be undertaken and illustrated much better, and there is plenty of footage of police telling people to disperse with either no where to go, directed through gauntlets of pepper spraying riot cops, then swept and prodded with concussion grenades, tear gas and the like in elaborate pincer formations, corraled for mass arrest. These sweeps were indiscriminate trapping observers, residents, bystanders and innocents.
Add to the visible over reaction by "authorities", the conditions and lack of care given to those arrested once they enter "the system" behind the walls in detention. The stories coming from inside have been horrific. Refusal to allow "detainees" (I never thought I would be using this word to describe American citizens) medical treatment for chemical burns, denied access to prescription medications which they had on their person when arrested; I on't be surprised when it is announced that people have died while in custody.
And of course, up to this point, barely a peep here on C&L and other media.
Where is the outrage? Where is the respect for human rights, those same rights we say are suppressed in China, Myanmar, Tibet, world wide? The unalienable rights that belong to the least of us and those we don't even like, where is the outrage???
Does anyone have video footage of this 'destruction and rioting by anarchists'? I've seen some pretty wild things on Uptake but haven't seen more than a single broken window and none of these 'burning trashbins'.
Genuinely curious.
Tim @ 74:
True Point.
rain @ 71:
Some cops yes...others that join the police force are bullies from waaaaay back...and continue to bully in an official capacity.
I don't think however, a direct confrontation with the cops is a good idea...they will win.
We need to remind them that they work for us, the people. Not political parties.
Orangutan. @ 80:
Indeed!
"You can get anything you want at Alice's restaurant"
And can you, can you imagine fifty people a day,I said
fifty people a day walking in singin a bar of Alice's Restaurant and
walking out. And friends they may thinks it's a movement.
~Arlo Gutherie
What the police are doing In St.Paul is despicable. However, violence only begets violence and when you're up against a big guy/gal with a stick, a gun and an entire "force" behind them, protecting their thuggery you'll lose every time.
Keep it peaceful, keep it classy, take lots of pictures and make sure to vote in November.
Cops don't work for the public anymore, just the gov't and corporations. I can't believe our tax dollars go to paying for this. These arrests are politically motivated.
Oscar @ 10:
Contrary to msm reporting, it's not illegal to be an anarchists.
"Anarchism is a political philosophy encompassing theories and attitudes which support the elimination of all compulsory government" - Wikipedia
These kinds of protests do a lot to energize the conservatives. Republicans love their police. Protestors are always seen as being traitors — or democrats.
These high minded ideals about how law enforcement is only here to serve and protect you is naive at best and very dangerous at the worst. These cops are violating civil rights bestowed on us be our Creator. When you elect in your life to get up in the morning, put on a uniform, badge and a gun, then proceed to spend your day arresting Americans on false "conspiracy to riot" charges, then you are a traitor or too ill equipped mentally to administer rights on other people. The city of Milwaukee sent police officers to the RNC. Many, if not most of the cops in Milwaukee are corrupt. They have a code of silence among them and some have been charged and convicted of various crimes, many of them extremely violent in nature. This isn't Andy Griffith here. These cops are trained killers heavily armed with sophisticated weaponry and most of them hate liberals. I guaran- fucking- tee most of the cops in St. Paul are only itching to bash some faggot liberals brains in with a baton. These are your police officers bought and paid for by you.
And they fucking hate you.
BTW I completely agree with some here that about agent provocateurs having infiltrated the protest groups.
rain @ 71:
Sometimes it is more patriotic to refuse to serve in an illegal war - like Lt. Watada.
Being a veteran doesn't make anybody uniquely qualified to do anything on the fact alone. It means that you have served in your country's armed forces. In the last eight years it might mean that you obeyed your country's orders to help wage an illegal war.
When I put on my firefighter gear, it did not give me license to act like a moron. That came naturally.
Leadership @ 75:
What Hallmark version of History did you get that shit from? There has never been a progressive movement without a degree of violence.
rain @ 71:
I have a "friend" since childhood (60s) He's a sheriff at a jail. He calls African-Americans n****rs. I've asked him several times as we got older not to use that term around me. I believe in free speech but I also believe in respect for others. He has a right to say whatever he wants but I have a right to associate with people that treat me respectfully. Besides his condescending, arrogant, ignorance of his language, not only does he show no respect for African-Americans but no respect for me. I broke that friendship off.
Now not all law-enforcement officers are like my "friend" but there are many, believe me. Is he a law enforcement officer or a pig? I think he's a pig.
So don't go holding up every cop as something to put on a pedestal. It's a job. They're well paid. There's good cops and there's bad cops.
Ruthless People @ 65:
I saw the video....
this still does not answer the question:
"What the hell were they doing?????"
Marching on armed police who are in position, and ready to defend and fire towards the crowd.
WHat the hell were they doing???
Our Country is now against any type of peaceful Demonstration. Sometimes I get the feeling with the lose of so many Constitutional Rights that we are approaching a period much like Nazi Germany faced in the early 1930's.
Oscar @ 10:
One report of diluted bleach, and now everyone there is a terrorist and gets the boot?
That was day one, day two has had the activists policing themselves and directing the black block away from their protests, which the black block has respected. Agent provocateurs have been identified as instigating police reactions yesterday.
It is a well known fact that the Joint Terrorism Task Force has been caught in MN infiltrating protest groups, not just to collect information on citizens in advance of the convention, but to instigate, organize and execute violent activities to provoke a violent reaction from police; Agent provocateurs
In the words of the old Negro spiritual: "free at last, free at last, thank God Almighty, we are Free at last."
rain @ 71:
Actually, cops are the bullies who played football in high school and beat up the weaker kids. They went on to study "Criminal Justice" at the JuCo or the University because it's the easiest program there.
Sure, some are our veterans who went to war to bully a weaker nation. But no matter what the path they took, they're still the same bullies. The job selects for it.
Fucking cops.
I've often wondered... why can't you legally use force to defend yourself or others from illegal attacks, if the attacker is a cop?
If the cops bust down your door because they had the wrong address on their "no-knock" warrant, and you shoot the armed intruder, why isn't it self defense?
If a cop attacks you and you beat him off, why is it not self defense?
If you're wrongly convicted of a murder you didn't commit and sentenced to death and all your appeals have failed, and you can escape but have to hurt or kill a guard in the process, is that not self defense?
jaimito @ 79:
I haven't...but I rarely watch the MSM anymore.
rain @ 71:
Bullshit! The cop deserves our admiration when he earns it by doing his job right, not just because he straps a gun to his belt and wears a tin piece of costume jewelry. When cops act like thugs, they should get treated like thugs. Nothing more.
Or has it escaped your notice that the area only became dangerous because of the cop?
pissed off patricia @ 39:
From those who were actually arrested and did nothing (at Democracy Now!):
Minn. Police Infiltrated RNC Protest Group
Meanwhile, the Ramsey County sheriff’s office has admitted it infiltrated and spied on a prominent protest group in the Twin Cities known as the RNC Welcoming Committee for the past year. Two informants and an undercover investigator posed as members of the group, which the sheriff’s office deemed to be an “organized criminal enterprise.” The RNC Welcoming Committee describes itself as an anarchist/anti-authoritarian organizing body.
And
AMY GOODMAN: Most of the arrests took place within hours of a 10,000-strong peace march organized by the Coalition to March on the RNC and Stop the War. After the rally ended, several splinter groups broke off for spontaneous actions in the streets of St. Paul.
While most protesters demonstrated peacefully, some engaged in property damage, slashing car tires, throwing bottles, tipping trash bins and breaking windows of cars and buildings. One of the broken windows came in the building that houses Saint Paul Neighborhood Network—that’s SPNN —where Democracy Now! is broadcasting from this week.
L.A. Confidential @ 53:
THis video does not answer the question:
"What the hell were they doing marching on armed and ready cops????"
Pete Rooke @ 91:
Hey, at least the cops here aren't attacking protesters on the basis of skin color. Its equal opportunity stupidity now.
Welcome back to the '60's!
Zenrage @ 88:
Tell that to Gahndi!!! and MLK
Thomas Stone @ 38:
I'm with you!
craig @ 94:
Personally, I ain't beating ANYBODY off.
Leadership @ 36:
Basically they said "Go ahead, see if we care" buncha assholes.
Leadership,
You and rain should form your own blog.
You can sing "Kumbaya" while rain writes praises to cops.
aquarius2 @ 15:
This appears to be a willful misreading of Jane's comments.
First of all, many of "the very people doing the blogging" -- including Glenn Greenwald from Salon.com, Jane Hamsher of Firedoglake, Amy Goodman of Democracy Now -- have been on the streets, covering the protests and the questionable police tactics. Google Maps and Twitter aren't just tools for armchair warriors.... they're being used to disseminate information in realtime rapidly, enabling journalists to show up on the scene while police actions are in progress.
Secondly, by the "something happening" in St. Paul, she's referring to a genuine, grass-roots, democratic, activist sensibility among the protesters. She's very clear about how that contrasts to what happened in Denver -- where the compromises that the Democratic Party has made were all too obvious, with the Convention's corporate sponsorship and the prominence of the so-called "Blue Dog" coalition. For example, see Glenn Greenwald's post from Denver over here...
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/08/25/blue_dogs/index.html
What Jane is talking about has nothing to do with the behavior of the cops and everything to do with the passion of the protesters on the scene and the innovative ways they're using technology to reveal the truth about what's going on, a story that's being ignored or distorted by the mainstream media. Jane's post is an inspiring description of a new kind of activism and journalism that's taking birth.
Please re-read Jane's post, over here:
http://cliffschecter.firedoglake.com/2008/09/02/the-revolution-will-be-t...
capnmike @ 101:
Nahhh..in the sixties there would've been 200,000 protesters.
Leadership @ 102:
I think he's go ya there Zenrage...They both espoused nonviolent protest.
And violence does beget violence...
aquarius2 @ 40:
Agreed, but she was actually there because her producers were arrested and she was merely inquiring about them and subsequently arrested. So wrong. She had the highest press pass you can get, passing the security tests obviously, and a secret service agent ripped it off of her after she was arrested.
BuelahMan @ 26:
The reason police started using pepper spray, tasers, and rubber bullets is because the people complained, and rightly so, about them using deadly force to control crowds during riots. If citizens start using these weapons against police, I believe we'll probably see a return to the use of deadly force by police.
I agree that Americans have forgot what dissent truly is, but it is not rioting. Ghandi showed that peaceful dissent works. In the '60s,much more was accomplished by peaceful dissent than by rioting.
liberalNmoderation @ 109:
That being said...a people can only be pushed so far before they begin to push back.
Zenrage @ 100:
Well...that's progress I guess...
It's going to get worse. The product of opression is rage, and the Repiglicans have been oppressing anybody wherever it's profitable all over the world. The vultures will be coming home to roost.
liberalNmoderation @ 113:
You push back through the courts and by electing good democrats...so turn your anger into action and support actblue and blue america
Leadership @ 102:
Go tell two people who were martyred for their respective causes that there is no violence in social progression... Riiiiight!
teknikAL @ 90:
Thanks for the post, do you have any links that you could post regarding this?
Sam are I @ 112:
Quite honestly, there has been very little rioting from what I can find, most looks like fearful retreat when met with excessive force.
If you see any clips of real rioting, please post them.....
This video is most likely staged.
The cop was alone without backup, the "attack" on him was nothing more than a shove, and yet it somehow justifies the officer wildly spraying pepper spray at the entirely INNOCENT crowd around him, and ofcourse there just happened to be someone with a camera in the perfect spot to record it all...and yet he never got sprayed.
Did the police ask the camerman for his footgae to help identify the "attacker"?
Yeah, I thought not.
Staged.
To me, much hinges on the cops reason for physically removing the protester. Was that person a threat to others or just an annoyance to the cop? It's all about "why" force was used in the first place.
Zenrage @ 96:
That's my opinion as well. Decent cops shouldn't play a pig's game and expect to be treated with respect.
Sam are I @ 112:
peaceful dissent worked when the mainstream media were more than just propagandists for corporate/neocon interests
noparty @ 66:
Actually they're mild compared to the '68 Democratic convention,although these "preemptive" attacks on peoples homes where organizing is taking place strikes me as something new although I could well be mistaken.I point a finger directly at the St.Paul Police force which obviously has little experience dealing with this kind of thing.Its complete over kill.
http://www.democracynow.org/2008/9/2/amy_goodman_two_democracy_now_produ...
30 seconds to 50 seconds in:
NICOLE SALAZAR: Watch out! Watch out! Press!
POLICE OFFICER: Get out of here! Move!
NICOLE SALAZAR: Where are we supposed to go? Where are we supposed to go?
POLICE OFFICER: Get out of here!
NICOLE SALAZAR: Dude, I can’t see! Ow! Press! Press! Press!
POLICE OFFICER: Get down! Get down on your face! On your face!
NICOLE SALAZAR: I’m on my face!
POLICE OFFICER: Get down on your face!
NICOLE SALAZAR: Ow! Press! Press!
I have seen several videos from these protests and what one takes from them is that it is the police that is downright begging for a violent reaction to their threatening presence. And I would not be surprised if that was a part of their mission...
Leadership @ 117:
Well...I agree that's the obvious way to go...but if that fails...then what? Just go home?
Diluted bleach? Good thing they didn't havedryer sheets!
Leadership @ 75:
Your vicious discourse included...
An attack on a Peace Officer is an attack on the very foundations of this country. Do not do it.
If they act wrongly. Document it, and sue the hell out of them personally, and the governmental agency they work for. But NEVER attack them.
This is being done on OUR dime. Congress gave money to pay these thugs overtime.
Orangutan. @ 80:
What? Dream on. If "shit really goes down" and there is no food, electricity, gasoline or order: the cops will not be there for you. Nobody would be paying them to do their job. Imagine the way these police are handling the RNC, but 100 times worse. If anything, they will be shooting you when you try to "loot" food to feed your starving children. If "shit really goes down" it's survival of the fittest. Your best option would be to use your own wits, be armed and get the hell away from metropolitan areas.
The cop wasn't "attacked"; someone interfered with the arrest.
liberalNmoderation @ 128:
We all know we live in a non functioning Democracy. The next steps is a BIG march on the capitol.
IndridCold @ 123:
I say there's a bit more goin on here than any of us know.
ConstitutionalCommando @ 131:
"Peace" officer? He's a thug who got put in a uniform which gives him permission to assault people.
Amy Goodman Grills St. Paul Police Chief About Her Arrest and Two Democracy Now! Producers
http://www.democracynow.org/2008/9/3/amy_goodman_grills_st_paul_police
I’m Amy Goodman from Democracy Now!, a daily public radio and television program. I was arrested yesterday by the police, along with my two producers. And I want to know what the policy is for reporters. We are fully credentialed, all of us, both from the convention and our own press credentials.
First, it was our two producers. It was over at 7th and Jackson. One of them, Nicole Salazar, had a camera. She was videotaping. The police moved in very quickly. She was stepping back behind the car. She was videotaping this whole thing. The police moved in at her. We have the videotape, played it on the show today. As she shouted “Press! Press!,” they said put your face in the ground. They pushed her to the ground. They put their boot in her back. Another one pulled on her leg, and they were telling her to keep her face down to pull along the gravel. Sharif Abdel Kouddous is our other producer. He was there. They threw him up against the wall. They bloodied his arm. They bloodied her face.
And I was called. I was on the convention floor interviewing the delegation from Minnesota and Alaska. I got a call, the producers are being arrested. I raced down here by foot. I went up to the riot police line. I said, “I would like to talk to a commanding officer.” This is all videotaped. And they took me, handcuffed me immediately, said, “You’re under arrest.” They pushed me to the ground. I said, “You can clearly see I have all the proper credentials.” I have my security clearance for the floor, for example, of the convention. So Secret Service came over, and they pulled it off. “Now you don’t,” they said.
So, my question is, they have—they face PC riot, probable cause riot. I’ve already been charged with a misdemeanor. What is your policy with the press? How is the press to operate in this kind of environment? And a last question is, our producers were here, but the police only allow in two people from each press, but this is empty, and all the police are here. They far outnumber us in the press. Why our reporters can’t be here?
Leadership @ 136:
Been sayin that for months now.
March on DC before the idiot bush attacks Iran.
"What? Dream on. If “shit really goes down” and there is no food, electricity, gasoline or order: the cops will not be there for you. Nobody would be paying them to do their job. Imagine the way these police are handling the RNC, but 100 times worse. If anything, they will be shooting you when you try to “loot” food to feed your starving children. If “shit really goes down” it’s survival of the fittest. Your best option would be to use your own wits, be armed and get the hell away from metropolitan areas."
Yep.
And I've watched that video about 30 times. Makes me wish I were still there....
liberalNmoderation @ 138:
There were police from several jurisdictions, in full riot gear, plus FBI, Homeland Security and Secret Service. Yes, there was a bit more going on.
innocent bystander @ 124:
I agree that peaceful dissent works better when reported on by true journalists. But as you can see from many of the comments here, some people believe the whole incident shown in this post was staged. Let's say that it was staged. Then why was it staged? Because not enough protesters are getting out of control, and these guys need excuses to use force, and to show the world that they are justified in using force. If that's the case, using violence against the police gives them the justification they need both to use force, and to preempt further violence by shutting down all protest. I'm not saying people shouldn't protest-- just that they shouldn't use violence to do it. The First Amendment guarantees "the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances." Attacking the police is not protected.
Fuck the cops.
A stupid thing to do. The cop could've pulled out his gun and blown the "protestor" away and would've been perfectly justified (well, at least from an administrative standpoint) in doing so. All the cop had to say was that he was physically attacked and that his life was threatened.
Mick Piobr @ 108:
You said it!!
CMINCA @ 143:
Crazy shit goin on...
Thomas Jefferson said it all.
I am against attacking police who are acting lawfully according to the constitution. If a male cop was raping a woman, however, I am not ashamed to say I would attack him because he is no longer serving the law. Illegal arrest is a term that has a place in the justice system. Using the power of police authority and detention to rough people up and remove them from a politically inconvenient area is not a legal use of police powers. It is a breach of the trust we gave them. It is a subversion of the legal rights of citizens for political purposes. That is a crime by many definitions and if there is a situation where police are the ones committing the crime, who is then responsible for enforcing the law? And by enforcing the law I don't mean taking them to court and getting paid off with the same tax dollars they used to break the law.
I know it's naughty of me but I couldn't help cheering along with the protesters.
People are fighting back it would seem. We need real leaders in this nation, not extremist freaks, as this is spiraling out of control. We are in a civil war and it's only going to get worse without real change.
Violence against the police is never a good idea. Don't do it.
But it is worthwhile to point out, after a week of witnessing heavy handed authoritarian actions by the various law enforcement entities, it makes sense that some of those on the streets are going to start fighting back against what they see as repeated, frequently unprovoked violence against protesters, photographers, media, and legal observers.
It's a great recipe for shit to get way out of hand. It is not rocket science, if the police treat protesters like humans, they will usually receive the same behavior in return. In fact, it is not unusual for the main body of protesters to subdue the minority engaging in bad behavior. Unless the police gives them a common enemy like they seem to have been trying to do in Minnesota.
I was in Saint Paul last night. I interacted (peacefully) with both yelling protesters and officers in riot gear and gas masks. I saw the tear gas and heard the concussion grenades.
I was going to write a post here about the benefits of non-violent protest, the ideals of MLK, and the Communication Era's magnification of these principles, but I'm too pissed off at the petty, short sighted, and hateful actions advocated on this board that amount to strategic suicide for any effort for change that embraces them. I'm embarrassed.
Seriously, the cops and authorities in this country have stepped so far over the line for so long, its time for pushback. However, that pushback should be non-violent, or else they'll just start using real bullets and make the fascist state official. Plus, then they could suspend elections and we'd have bush forever.
right on! @ 147:
There was a world wide student protest movement in the 60s.
French students almost literally over threw the government.
zugzug @ 154
Quoted for Truth. (QFT)
"...peaceful dissent works"
Sometimes it does not. How many people around the world protested that one time and still to this day, protest against GWB? It stopped nothing.
WHO built the 600+ FEMA concentration camps?
WHO created their own, fully equiped, fully armed, PRIVATE ARMY?
WHO incorporated the "pre-planned" PATRIOT ACT upon us?
WHO is busting into private homes without any warants?
WHO is tapping into ALL our private communications unimpeded?
WHO is stopping investigations into the corruption and scandals?
WHO rigged voting machines?
WHO stole elections?
WHO started the ILLEGAL occupations of other countries?
WHO is using signing statements to circumvent laws like a drunkin sailor?
WHO is simply ignoring subpeanas from Congress?
WHO stacked the LEGAL DECK?
The lawbreaking has reached new, all time, record limits. By WHOM? Peacfull protests, up to now, what little HAVE BEEN ALLOWED, have stopped none of it.
Just wearing a T-shirt with what they consider, the wrong statement WILL get you tazerd and ARRESTED in the blink of an eye.
They have already, and still. continue to get away with blatent, serious, lawbreaking. How can the law be EQUALLY enforced when THEY, the law makers, the law enforcers, are doing ALL the law breaking?
Who is going to enforce ANY LAWS, against them, when they have been REMOVED or nearly all circumvented?
johnnyabnormal @ 9:
Got pepper spray? Spray a pig(oink oink)
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