Dobson on hate crimes: Whatever happened to the 9th Commandment?
By David Neiwert Friday May 15, 2009 6:00pm
Dear James Dobson:
After reading about your recent broadcast about hate crimes, I have a question:
Whatever happened to the Ninth Commandment?
You know, the one that goes: "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor."
Because here's what you told your audiences about the Local Law Enforcement Hate Crimes Prevention Act of 2009:
The dangerous bill, awaiting Senate consideration, would create a new class of crimes based on the victim's "actual or perceived sexual orientation or gender identity. Those who speak out against homosexuality, including pastors, could face prosecution for "inciting" violence against gay individuals.
No, they wouldn't. That's a flat-out lie. Here's what the bill says:
Nothing in this Act, or the amendments made by this Act, shall be construed to prohibit any expressive conduct protected from legal prohibition by, or any activities protected by, the Constitution.
The only "right" that this bill infringes upon is the "right" of violent yahoos to seek out victims based on their perceived status as a member of a minority group and commit criminal acts against them. That's the right Dobson is defending here.
You also said this about the bill:
Even more concerning, the legislation could create special protection for pedophiles. Democrats voted down an amendment to the bill that would have excluded pedophilia from the definition of "sexual orientation."
There's nothing in either the federal legislation, or in any state law, that could credibly be construed as offering protection to pedophiles. In fact, the entire construct -- that these laws create "protected classes" -- is false to begin with.
But [this] argument appears predicated on the wholly fabricated notion that pedophilia might somehow legally qualify as a "sexual orientation" -- which is to say, it rests on the assumption that homosexuality is somehow akin to pedophilia.
We understand it when right-wing politicians and pundits lie about this bill. We're accustomed to it. It's what they do.
But I thought evangelical religious leaders were supposed to, you know, adhere to the basic standards of their beliefs. It's time you and your brethren stopped lying about this bill.
Sincerely,
Dave N.
Amanda Terkel at ThinkProgress has more.
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okay !now were getting some raw meat here! hates a good subject , lets see who hates who the most! anybody!
You always have a pretty good hate on for Obama.
You're not going to get hypocritical here are you?
Tell us how you really feel?
no dear i dont hate your prescious obama ,just his republican side you know the side that says one thing and then another kind of like the two faces he projects , fisa no , fisa yes , habius corpus no ,well you get the picture !
That's the same side I don't care for either.
He's not my precious. The guy is human and I just don't ever vote Repub. What is it with the need to generalize? I'm not mesmerized or mystified by him. By the way, what all should he have accomplished at this point, just so I understand, from your point of view, how much he has underperformed.
lady whats your problem? you want me to name off every thing hes done to show how much of a republican he is? or how much hes not done for the american people? whats being human got to do with it? hes president of the united states for gods sakes!
Yes sir tyree! Chimpy got every radical fascist piece of legislation through that he wanted with 50 Senators, and a -500,000 popular vote "mandate."
When is Obama going to start whipping the Senate (a.l.a. LBJ) into voting the way democrats should?
There is absolutely NO excuse for what is going on in the U.S. Senate. He needs to sit these GOP-lite pricks like Ben Nelson down and tell them they will be primaried out of office if they don 't get with a pro people agenda.
But seeing how he's picked a bunch of GOP-lite Clinton flunkies as advisors, I don't think his heart is in it.
Is he the freaking leader of the people's party or not? Continuing the disastrous Clinton legacy of sucking up to Wall Street and republican psychopath's - is NOT going to work!
i think you pretty well covered it and answerd your own questions pretty well,
Jesus "fulfilled the Law", and so no Ninth Commandment.
community, those same people will quote Jesus saying he didn't come to put an end to the Law. *sigh*
that is what happens when 4-5 guys write different views of what happened
anyway...christianity is misnamed....it it the cult of paul
paul got tired of being a jew...its hard you know...keeping the sabbath and the kosher laws
jesus came to him in a dream...told him that a ham on rye is ummm ummm good....and christianity was born
of what the quotes from Jesus are and focus on Paul's epistles. Of course, those are the same people who believe God dictated to every writer of the New Testament, and that Paul couldn't possibly have inserted bias into it...
The Torah is also filled with the same crap.
Heck if you read the two testaments from beginning to end, it turns out that God has a massive case of psychosis...
Both the new and old testaments were written "by committee" the fact that we have used a fantasy book to rule our societies for millennia is an indication of how much evolving our species still has to do...
If I remember correctly there was the Elohist, the Yahwist, the Deuteronomist, the Greek and the Prophets all written as you said by committee to bolster up their people's faith, or lack thereof, by creating a phony history of their people.
It by itself could be declared a hate crime
I buried Paul...
I don't think he ever settled his differences with the Church in Jerusalem led by James. And each would put their own words into Jesus's mouth.
It's my understanding that there were a number of New Testaments floating around of about 200, started by new churches, that were then honed by committee to the ones we have today.
Then it was honed again in the Seven Great Councils but particularly the Nicene Council and the Constantinople Council (Nicene Creed).
http://www.pbcc.org/dc/creeds/councils.html
Me go sleep now; I'm drooping already.
Whats so hard about thin sliced corn beef, stacked high on a reuben? Beats the hell out of any ham sandwhich.
You forgot circumcision.
Today it's snip-snip and it's over
But back then it could kill you, presumably because of infections.
The Pagan converts to Christianity might never have happened since they were rightly concerned by the practice.
In fact, that was the so-called first of the 13 Great Heresies, the Circumcisors, who were teaching you had to be circumcised and become Jewish first before becoming Christian.
Republican politics find lying acceptable. Especially if they think it will help them achieve their objective.
(Perhaps I should limit that comment to evangelical leaders... )
is a silly man and any one that thinks that god talks to him is equally silly. He speaks for no one, but his hate-filled self.
Here’s what the bill says?? Do you really think Herr Dodson is going to lower himself to actually reading the bill? I think not. The god of Ben Franklin tells him how and what to think.
just ask him why he is a false prophet and quit tip toeing around the issue with them?
Christians who take the teachings about not letting false prophets go unchallenged seriously. I think it will take Christians from liberal backgrounds to do that, because I don't see a lot of questioning from conservative Christians.
Come on now, Dave. Everybody knows it is OK to lie as long as you do it in Jeebus' name.
I believe Dobson is an amoral opportunist who saw his chance years ago. He realized pretty quick that if he starting spewing his nonsense it would make him a rich man (somehow). Just fade away already James, just fade away.
-Civil Liberties Groups worldwide are not so happy with our president over his decision on military tribunals:
http://yellingatthemoon.com/2009/05/15/civil-...
It's the 8th commandment, not the 9th, that states "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor." The 9th commandment states "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife."
I thought the 9th commandment was: "thou shalt not vote republican, for they are evil, and will destroy all that is good in the world."
I did a double take too.
But it appears Catholics don't do the numerology like everyone else: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Commandments
Actually the Jews, Roman Catholics and Protestants all number the commandments differently, so a roy moore who tries to install commandment monuments in federal buildings in the middle of the night not only doesn't understand his religious history, but is also a dillweed.
Thou shalt not covet they neighbor's wife, nor thy neighbor's ass, but it doesn't say anything about coveting your neighbor's wife's ass.
It doesn't say anything about coveting your neighbor's husband either, lol...
he or she sure managed to leave pretty of loopholes open...
It could be said that most of the effort by orthodox Jews and Christians revolves not around implementing the teachings in the bible, but about finding loopholes in said teachings.
I bet Dobson spends more time looking for loopholes than walking in love and putting faith into compassionate action.
If he did that, he wouldn't have the club of religion to beat others over the head with.
That omniscient god sounds kind of like Johannes Scotus Erigenus's doctrine of Divine Ignorance. This states that God knows so much that even God doesn't know what God knows until it has already happened.
Sort of like Jeanne Dixon's prophecies
Or political pundits.
wouldn't that imply that there are limit's to god's powers. Which should be impossible because he or she or it is supposed to be "omnipotent."
Using the Epicurean test, you can pretty much disprove the God worshiped by three monotheistic religions like Christianity, Islam, and Judaism.
Divine Ignorance was a later attempt to refute the Free Will doctrine of St. Augustine, since Free Will seemed logically inconsistent, if God was truly omniscient, since that would imply a limit to His knowledge. Conversely, it would mean that He would know in advance whether we would fail or not, making Free Will a sham, thus damning ourselves, while He toys with us. But like you pointed out Erigenus's doctrine had logical inconsistencies of its own. This led to the Calvinist and then Jansinists heresies of Predestination to futher try to unsnarl the debate, but that would seem to deny grace.
But I really need to get some sleep now.
What about her rack?
Oops, I blew it in my previous post. Not bearing false witness is the 9th commandment. Sorry.
You keep holding your breath for the first time Dobson practices what he preaches. He's in the majority of preachers who do a lot more speck inspecting than plank removal. These christianists don't know the first thing about being christians.
We should not be so nieve to think that these right-wing bible people mean that any of it should apply to themselves, the crap the sling is only supposed to apply to everyone else. And I find that true with most of the people who claim to have religious morals - their morals only apply to the people who do things they don't like.
And then of course they pick and choose which parts of the bible to follow to the letter and which parts are simply 'suggestions'.
That is why I am proudly free of all religious bullshit and I really wish these church people would not ever hassle me, or worry about me or certainly don't pray for me.
Just keep it to yourself, that's all I ask.
I'm sure alot of Sadducees and Pharisees chose to look the other way since Jesus was just a Nazarene.
Otherwise everything they say, think or do will get them in big trouble!
Moses would have had an easier time insisting to the pharaoh to let his people go if he was packin' an Uzi.
this is why jews pack uzis. also why there is a second amendment
No, that was to avoid standing armies, particularly of the "professional" sort. And to clearly establish that in times of war and insurrection the federal government could claim the state's militias, without needing approval of state governors or legislatures as they had to do during the Revolution.
...but is it any surprise a Right-wing religious extremist would be both a liar and a hypocrite?
...Dobson's motivation would be clearly evident.
That was the image of the Egyptian God Horus.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horus
Yep, although he was mostly represented as a falcoln, because his mother Isis (as well as his aunt Hathor/sometimes his mother)were represented on occassion as cows, he was their calf.
Horus was a composite of a couple of other gods as well, one was Herakhte and I cannot recall the other one and would have to look it up in my copy of The Egyptian Book of the Dead. Generally, these were probably syncretic mergings of similar gods with perhaps similar names and/or attributes.
In fact, with all the Egyptian solar figures, they'd be represented often one way in the morning, another in the afternoon, and yet another at sunset, as well as when they were in their hottest season, coldest season, wettest season, and dryest season.
http://www.bibleorigins.net/EgyptianOriginsGo...
The significance of the pharoah being represented as a golden calf, was that the pharoah was also identified as the son of Isis (sometimes Hathor), as the infant Horus sometimes seen in the lap of Isis forming an early version of the Madonna and child iconography.
But even Egyptians could not agree on their religion and had rival schools of priesthoods framing the religion to push their school to the forefront. There were also earlier gods pushed out for later ones, or sometimes simply conjoined in name like Re-Herakhte.
The other names of the various Horuses was Heru, Heru-ur, Heru-merti, Heru-nub, Heru-khent-khat, Heru-khent-an-maa, Heru-khuti, Heru-sam-taui, Heru-hekenu, Heru-behutet.
Some were various descriptions at certain times of day or sovreignty, but could also be considered as individual gods.
The earliest was Horus as the sun god, and the latter the son of Osiris and Isis and as the avenger of his father against his uncle Set could be likened to a god of battle.
This seems to be Dobson's logic. If you are taught and believe the above, then if you perform an act of hate upon a homosexual, the homosexuality is only incidental to the "true" reason of preventing attacks upon children by the perverted. A pedophile exclusion would be a defense against the hate crime enhancement.
And it was Peter in Acts that had the dream that allowed him to eat in a non kosher house.
in Spanish, and you can buy it from Focus on the Family's website for 25 bucks. I just listened to today's broadcast, and these hypos rant on about the hate crimes legislation potentially protecting pedophiles. One of their own, Focus on the Family producer Juan Alberto Ovalle, was arrested in April for soliciting sex with a minor. The audio Santa Biblia he narrated for Focus on the Family is still available on their website, so if in fact Ovalle is guilty, they are peddling a version of the Bible read by a pedophile.
http://family.christianbook.com/Christian/Boo...
James Dobson is to Christianity what Cheney is to civil liberties.
Dobson is and always has been a fraud , a very wealthy fraud thanks to a whole lot of pea brains ... followers and supporters of this jerk .
In England, one of their favorite side-dishes was called mushy peas.
Or anyone else who knows about the law.I am against hate crimes against any group but I would just like to know for sure,I haven't read the law
Does this law only cover hate against minorities?What about crimes of hate comitted against majorities BY minorities is this covered in the hate crimes law? I think this is a very important question because if it is covered then I see why they will fight this law tooth and nail
It would be a big loss of power to one certain group
Thanks in advance
To the rabid godbots, the only people who have to obey their religion are the non-believers.
So it's strange to hear them (b)lather about non-believers "disobeying the buybull", considering non-rabid christians and non-theists are the ones obeying the buybull (re: "love thy neighbor").
As always, what morons like Dobson want isn't for people to obey the buybull. They want people to obey them, personally.
*shakes head* I'd have thought you'd learned by now. "Christians" of Dobson's ilk don't give a crap about obeying the Commandments, listening to Jesus or anything else that gets in their way. They're fine with blaring at full volume about OTHER people's sins. But they themselves never commit any sins, didn't you know? Or if they do, then they figure out a rationale for why they HAD to do that, which their god will of course accept, because they're "true Christians."
There's no winning with these people. And waving the Bible at them completely misses the point. Just accept that they will always, ALWAYS throw their god and their messiah under the bus if it means they get to keep peddling hate, ignorance and violence.
I don't know if I've ever read/heard an explanation. What is their bing hang up with the legislation? I guess the easy answer is to follow the money - who is fighting these laws tooth and nail every time it comes up, and why?
We have a 77 year old friend who has been in the Republcan party for 58 years. He has supported the party with LOTS and LOTS of his money, his name, and his powerful influence. Anyhow, he shared this eye-opening story with us:
"The day after the November election our 12 1/2 year old grandson came to me and said, 'Papa a black man from a poor family can become elected President of the United States as a Democrat, but James Dobson will not allow a Catholic, Mormon or Jew to EVEN run for President as a Republican. I though we were a nation with FREEDOM OF RELIGION. Since we're Catholics, and Republicans, and I want to be in politics, I think I need to be a Democrat, Papa'. FROM THE MOUTHS OF BABES."
No wonder the GOP is loosing so many young people and so many disgusted Republicans. Here a 12 1/2 year old has enough sense to see that James Dobson and the southern Baptist own and control the Republican Party.
When Dobson speaks its right from the mouth of God. Therefore, if his followers were to ACTUALLY read the new Hate Crimes Law they would not believe its accurate, because it contradicts what Dobson, and the baptist, are saying it represents. Dobson is the final authority and to question him would be blasphamy against the Trinity!
Our friend will never support or vote Republican again. That entire family has re-registered as Democrats. He is telling his story to EVERYONE who will listen. His innocent, honest, 12 year old grandson saw the prejudices and hypcorisy of the GOP, the baptist and Dobson. He opened his grandfathers blinded political eyes.
If Mullah Dobson wants to live in a theocracy he should move to Iran.
They threw away the 11th and 12th commandments.
Thou shall not covet thy neighbors weed,
And
Thou shall not run out of beer.
For a while now I've been wondering how religious zealots square their hate-spewing and truth-defying statements and accusations against anyone who may just disagree with the fundamental beliefs and laws of their faith. Now I have the answer. Let's constantly remind them of the 10 Commandments.
Wikipedia says:
"The Ten Commandments, or Decalogue, are a list of religious and moral imperatives that, according to Judeo-Christian tradition, were authored by God and given to Moses on the mountain referred to as "Mount Sinai" (Exodus 19:23) or "Horeb" (Deuteronomy 5:2) in the form of two stone tablets. They feature prominently in Judaism and Christianity."
Here are the 10 Commandments from Exodus 20:2-20:17
"2 I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery;
3 Do not have any other gods before me.
4 You shall not make for yourself an idol*, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me,
6 but showing steadfast love to the thousandth generation of those who love me and keep my commandments.
7 You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not acquit anyone who misuses his name.
8 Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy.
9 For six days you shall labour and do all your work.
10 But the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God; you shall not do any work—you, your son or your daughter, your male or female slave, your livestock, or the alien resident in your towns.
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but rested the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and consecrated it.
12 Honor your father and your mother, so that your days may be long in the land that the Lord your God is giving you.
13 You shall not kill**
14 You shall not commit adultery***
15 You shall not steal****
16 You shall not bear false witness against your neighbour*****
17 You shall not covet your neighbour’s house; you shall not covet your neighbour’s wife, or male or female slave, or ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbour."
So, those of you who practice religious zealotry, how about holdong yourselves to the 10 Commandments?
* Read: Ronald Reagan
** THIS MEANS THAT THE DEATH PENALTY IS NOT SANCTIONED BY THE 10 COMMANDMENTS
*** Doesn't John Edwards profess to be a highly religious man?
**** Wall Street crooks and thieves
***** Target of this article
As to #13
http://atheism.about.com/od/tencommandments/a...
And in the Book of Joshua the Lost Tribes were repeatedly told by God to attack various towns along the way, and kill every man, woman and child. And of course executions were allowed by scripture even to executing your own children, or a wife or daughter who was raped.
'hate crimes' are a bad idea because you know the religious right will take it to ridiculous levels. "whaaa whaa whaaa that person said something bad about jeezus, HATE CRIME!!!" And screw the idea of giving prosecuters MORE power.
Oh good
Someone else is here
I was begining to think I was playing with myself
Fortunately there's no 11th commandment against it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TAtRCJIqnk
(A hate crime is not a thought crime, an actual criminal act would have to follow.)
But then again could designating something a hate-crime be used to forestall needful legislation?
"You will pry this stone tablet from my cold dead hands!"
His headstone?
Not all hypocrites are evangelical christian leaders.
Yes, some are non-evangelical.
Dobson is slimeball and practices religion that will meets his needs. He main need is continuting to grow his wealth. He's no better than the Bernie Madoffs of the world, they were screw anyone to get their need met.
Hey, Dobson, being "anti-gay" isn't a sexual orientation.
...so why would anyone be surprised that Christians are liars?
http://www.jesusneverexisted.com
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