John Fund helps cover Lou Dobbs' extremist tracks after 'Reliable Sources' panel skewers 'they shot at my wife' tale
By David Neiwert Monday Nov 02, 2009 7:00am
[H/t Dave]
Well, at least Howard Kurtz -- unlike Bill O'Reilly -- didn't completely sucker for Lou Dobbs' wildly overblown tale of someone taking a shot at his home.
In fact, on yesterday's "Reliable Sources" show on CNN, Kurtz hosted a pretty frank discussion of the likelihood that Dobbs was trying to martyr himself and attack his critics by claiming they were shooting at him -- when there's extremely high likelihood that this was a stray bullet from a rifle shot by a hunter in the nearby woods.
Most of the frank talk can be credited to Margaret Carlson, who was in Feisty mode. Unfortunately, she was counterbalanced by Lyin' John Fund, who managed to completely obfuscate why Dobbs is in trouble for the way he discussed immigration:
KURTZ: Margaret, if some nut was actually taking a shot at Lou Dobbs and his wife, is it fair for him to then blame it on the media climate surrounding his fervent opposition to illegal immigration?
CARLSON: No, but he loves doing it. Speak of your own publicity machine, Lou Dobbs generates so much about his own self. And he takes extreme views in part for ratings.
KURTZ: But that suggests he doesn't believe what he's saying.
CARLSON: You know, I think like Glenn Beck and some of these others, you come to believe when you're saying because it is so satisfying to you in terms of ratings and income. Listen, the police who investigated this said that it's hunting season, and there was a bullet mark in the attic on the third floor of his house. That he and his wife were in the same place at the same time, there's no evidence of that.
I mean, it sounds to me from the evidence that he was blowing this up into -- to be a victim -- to be a victim of the media when there's absolutely no, just no evidence that somebody was shooting at him or his wife.
KURTZ: John Fund, we don't know exactly what happened, but it is true that New Jersey state police did kind of play down this incident.
Did Dobbs go too far in trying to tie this to his stance on immigration?
FUND: I think, look, my brother was in law enforcement, and it's always a close call, because if you talk about people threatening you or possibly taking a shot at you, that can encourage other people to go after you. So I probably would have stayed away from it simply for reasons of security. But this issue of what his views are...
KURTZ: Just briefly.
FUND: ... "The Wall Street Journal" is very pro-legal immigration. But Lou Dobbs' views are not that extreme. He basically says we should enforce the laws we have on the books involving illegal immigration. Characterizing it as extreme, I think mischaracterizes his position.
KURTZ: That is a debate for another day. We'll have you back.
Actually, Dobbs' "position" on immigration sounds reasonable when he starts talking about how he thinks we ought to increase immigration levels. But that was after he started getting called out for his incessant extremism. Before that, it's true he didn't explicitly call for mass deportations -- rather, he frequently argued for an aggressive policy of rounding up illegal immigrants and making their lives so miserable they left on their own. Basically an attrition-by-oppression plan. (And he has in fact expressed his avid support for deportation.)
But the reason Dobbs is viewed as an extremist on immigration has much less to do with his stated "position" on immigration, and everythign to do with his "reportage" on immigration and its outrageous and racially incendiary content -- the effects of which are felt in such real-world phenomena as an outbreak of anti-Latino hate crimes:
As for the claim that the Latino-bashing is something else -- the neutral and completely benign criticism of illegal immigration generally -- we've known this is nonsense for some time, especially Lou Dobbs' case. If Dobbs and cohorts like FAIR (an SPLC-designated hate group) really were only concerned about only illegal immigration, then Dobbs needs to explain:
* Why he makes up phony statistics connecting immigration generically with a supposed increase in diseases like leprosy.
* Why he broadcasts white-supremacist mythology about a Hispanic “Aztlan” conspiracy to return the Southwest to Mexico.
* Why he continually claims that Latino immigration is responsible for an increase in crime.
* Why he once said that this wave of immigration is turning America into “a third world cesspool” (a remark that has since been removed from the CNN website).
* Why he constantly promotes the notion of making English the official U.S. language.
* Why he regularly refers to this wave of immigration as an “invasion.”
* Why he regularly hosts anti-immigrant voices from white-supremacist groups and vigilante scam artists like the Minutemen and yet neglects to explain his guests' troubling backgrounds.
That, and much more, constitute the reasons Dobbs is viewed as an extremist on immigration.
John Fund can sugarcoat it and hope everyone forgets about Dobbs' real record of race-baiting on immigration. It's a common right-wing tactic to whine that all they want to talk about is immigration and yet doing so brings reflexive accusations of racism, and that's so unfair. But the fact is, we'd all love to talk about immigration with dealing with racism -- but right-wingers like Lou Dobbs do their best to make sure we have to.
Login or Register to post comments.
as well that wingnuts who spout continuously about the "freedom to bear arms" ad infinitum and how taxes are oppression are the first to pick up a phone and call law enforcement in a panic when they hear shots fired.
You'd think they'd get their guns and go have a war or find the shooter and give them a AK-47 just to say "Thanks for using a fire-arm buddy. Here's something better to practice with."
Because you know, firearms are really benign and who needs police?
it was, it was one of them blogger types, ya know, the ones who keep putting me down on the innertubes! That's it it's the Lefty's . .
are also the people who tend to agree with him. I have 2 x 4s at my disposal, but I'd look rather silly beating on his garage door with a stick. Those disagreeing with him are more likely to engage him in discussion (HORRORS!), or go the toilet paper route.
then it is not a lie
-george castanza
i think if he were paranoid enough, megalomaniacal enough, he would probably truly believe that a "hit" was taken on his life.
sidenote: i see the border fence is working real well for quieting the minutemen, but not much else as illegals are using makeshift ladders that they just sling and hook over the top of the fence. in turn, border crossing at the ca checkpoints has increased, not to mention that the t.j. beach has, let's just say, increased it's size in recreational swimmers and creative boaters.
Bwaa ha ha ha
David Niewert said,
"when there's extremely high likelihood that this was a stray bullet from a rifle shot by a hunter in the nearby woods"
I say, !!!
N.J. does NOT allow rifle hunting! only shotgun hunting is allowed!
Rifle hunting is illegal in N.J. (because of it's dense population)
If Dobbs house was hit by a "projectile" it was probly shotgun pellets (not a rifle bullet)
How many shotgun pistols are there?
The term bullet is used to describe any sort of projectile, even a rock in a sling.
That's not the same as talking about the conical bullet of the modern rifle.
You're the one making the distinction as to what kind of ordnance is used.
shotgun pellets are common enough. (whats your point?)
For hunting?
(The term bullet is used to describe any sort of projectile, even a rock in a sling)
...that is the "loosest" definition of "bullet" that I have ever heard!
would be hard to find but a slug could do real damage. Cheney chooses pellets to shoot you in the face.
N.J. does NOT allow rifle hunting! only shotgun hunting is allowed!
Rifle hunting is illegal in N.J. (because of it's dense population)
If Dobbs house was hit by a "projectile" it was probly shotgun pellets (not a rifle bullet)
I say:
The United States does not allow unlimited immigration.
Only selected immigratns are allowed.
Undocumented entry is illegal in U.S. Only permitted entry is allowed.
If the United States was full of undocumented workers, they are probably illegal aliens.
someone could have been hunting illegally. (with a rifle)
...It just means that "an extremely high likelyhood" of a stray "bullet", should be re-worded (by David Niewert) to say intead...
the "remote possibility" that someone who was hunting illegally (with a rifle) ...near Dobbs house,
to clean out some rumoured homeless encampment on his back forty and forgot they were there...
http://books.google.com/books?id=HRwo6dBekUQC...
...and hard for that link!!!
(I expected no less of you sir)
I read archeology to relax, and am ex-Air Force.
It appears you don't know a cartridge from a bullet.
shotguns can shoot slugs, pellets and (even rocks)
muzzle loaders (dont have cartridges) ...but they shoot bullets. although there is such a thing as a muzzleloading shotgun.
some pistols can shoot shotgun cartridges.
rocks are not "bullets" (even if you put them in a shotgun)
am I right so far?
Who shoots slugs and rocks?
Crossman when I lived in Oregon.
Shooting rocks is for people with no family, friends, or imagination.
but boxes. Hammers belong in bags or sacks. Rocks come in boxes, just like other ammo.
Much easier (and cheaper) than buying in individual boxes...
"the crow" (Brandon Lee) son of Bruce...
The scene in the pawn shop...where he loads the shotgun full of gold rings from the display case?
some farmers shoot rocksalt at varmints.
Which is why that sluggish Mr. Whittington was right to apologize to Dick Cheney.
Wrong, bullet is used to describe the missle.
In ancient muskets and arquebuses they had to pack their bore with wadding, powder and a missle of some sort (bullet), it could even be broken up pieces of ceramics like in the earliest 13th century cannons.
http://www.edupics.com/arquebus-t13314.jpg
I can find no link to an image of the earliest 13th century cannons, but they were made from church bell molds in the casting wax-removal system.
Anything that requires one to "pack their bore with wadding, powder and a missle of some sort" sounds off putting to me.
and covered by most policies possessed by those with a proper pair (even if the pair fires blanks.)
I admit with no embarrassment that I do not know a cartridge from a bullet. Just as I do not know one gun from another. Maybe if I could "grow a pair, I would know these things.
make sure the bullets are silver. The cartridges can be brass, just like balls.
I think I'll leave the "growing" task to the men folks and leave the bullets and guns and stuff to them too.
I prefer to just dither around with other things.
And bacon and eggs.
BetterBitter living through chemicals (and cooking)...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uc3SEBA-9nU
eggs and bacon, darlin?
Okay, now I'm hungry. Guess I better go hunting for something to eat. Something I don't have to shoot first since I don't have a gun or bullets or cartridges.
I should of mentioned this earlier, but cartridges used to come separately in paper that had been coated with pork fat.
Why is it when the Unitarian church got shot up
Or a doctor murdered by a crazed zealot
Or a nine year old girl murdered by xenophobes while pleading for her life
Or a part-time census taker hung from a tree
These same people will say the reichwing punditocracy had nothing to do with it, and we're silly for even bringing it up?
but it begs another question. If we (the left of center typolographicals) think the "reichwing" punditocracy is responsible for horrors, why are we so quick to dismiss Lou's claim of the same thing?
Because as a rule, most of us don't shoot houses?
was a moving tale of a time in America when illegal immigrants in California were Okies and the demand "Better English First"
was a sign of bigotry.
but the option to do so should always be available
It should be a right.
that it was the brother of that woman that Lou Dobbs raped and murdered in 1999. That's what some say. That's what I heard.
Dobbs needs to disprove that.
would mean investigating and prosecuting those who have been torturing too, eh Mr. Fund?
The thing that is so disingenuous is that Louuuuuuu and CNN (Wolfie commented on it on Friday) and even Howie didn't say that there is another possibility. That it could and probably was a hunter. The way that the "bullet" hit the side of the house on the third story and fell to the ground indicates it was not a shot aimed at Louuuuu or his wife.
Now wait. We have not determined how tall the Mrs Dobbs in question might be and how short the "shooter" might have been.
We have not determined if it was Mrs. Dobbs or Sra. Dobbs or if the "employee" who was with her when she heard the shot ring out was in this country legally.
I understand that the police are investigating a new line of inquiry.
How do I get out of here before this place becomes a third world country?
Too late.
Off topic but it is interesting:
Just like the other Republicans for Rape.
The "Aztlan conspiracy" myth is not, in fact, a myth.
There's a group called Mecha, that is in fact very real, and very much for returning the southwest (aztlan) to mexico. The group is widespread. My wife organized a students chapter at our local high school (in glen beck's hometown no less!)
Frankly I'm all for it - even though neither my wife or I are latino, we both support the group, albeit maybe not every one of it's goals.
Yeah, I'm all for it. Just like I'm all for Mr. Neiwert getting his facts straight. Please.
before further organizing. Otherwise Aztlan will not be sufficiently Aztec to be a meaningful return to anything. Or do you merely subscribe to the Aztec belief that when men of a strange color arrive at your home, it is a prophecy from the Gods?
Apparently I need to simplify my position, so that folks like you will understand.
I firmly believe that ethnicity based political activist groups like MECHa, and like the Black Panthers before them, are a *good* thing. They are ultimately good for the minorities they enfranchise, AND they are good for our society as a whole. They raise awareness. Your flip and facile response suggesting that I master human sacrifice is just plain dumb. Sadly, this is business as usual on many blogs. Admit this, at least to yourself: You baked up your response simply because I criticized the error in Mr. Neiwert's post. Furthermore, you missed the mark entirely. I stated that I believe in some of their goals, I never said I subscribe to the beliefs that you stated above.
I can sum your post up in two words:
EPIC FAIL
Have a nice day.
I'm white
that explains it.
explains what?, exactly? That you're a rube? I don't get you.
You, sir, are completely full of shit.
I have my facts straight. You haven't a clue what you're talking about.
TYT has a good video on YouTube about this: Lou Dobbs House Shooting Story Contradicted By Police
You still owe us one though...
Was Lou trying a balloon boy tactic with this? He had three weeks to figure out how to use this "story" And kind of like the Henne family, he overlooked a couple of details that could and did spoil the whole plan.
when the Hispanic fella he hired at the nearby day labor center refused to get in the balloon with a loaded gun without being paid first in cash!
Good thing dobbs didn't move near a golf course.
on his own porch like Governor Rick Perry's cousin (who Rick insists he did not know well enough to pick out of a line-up.)
The actual etymology of the word bullet:
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=bu...
http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/machine-g...
I will give you a handful of fine #00 birdshot.
Or some pebbles perhaps?
(messy in the mouth)
That was just an expression anyway
Like down the hatch
But is a throat and the esophagal tract like a hatch?
More often than not it was a strip of leather or cloth they would bite into.
Lou has been on the ropes with his nonsense. i can't be sure and i really don't care but i don't buy his story. this is more bad theatre. personally, i am against illegal/undocumented workers. i feel they are taken advantage of regarding their wages/work conditions. i feel there's been a net negative from illegal/undocumented workers("cheap labor") for the citizen work force/TAX payers.
Too many workers often hurts the citizen work force/tax payers, so I say anyone without work should be rounded up and put on the other side of a fence to improve wages for the remainder.
are you gunning for a guest spot on MTP?
"Baking with the Stars" on the Food Channel. It is hosted by Dave Neiwert.
That definitely explains your response to my original post. Thanks for that.
once you fessed up you were white.
Since Tom Delay appeared on Dancing with the stars, I think they should rename the show Hoofin' with the Has-beens.
.
You'd be incredibly wrong. That is however, your right.
The vast majority of undocumented workers are employed under a W-2 status. I'll explain what that means. It means that taxes are withheld by the federal government. The refunds from such are never claimed, because of a little thing called an SSN mismatch. That's a notice the govt sends you when/if you file your taxes and your SSN doesn't match your name. Bottom line - no tax refund. So where do all these unclaimed refunds go? A federal slush fund. Said slush fund is actually propping up social security.
I like milk. I like berries. I like cucumbers. I couldn't afford these things if my local farms weren't employing migrant workers.
If you and your friends, your family, were to all come here and pick strawberries for 16 cents a pound (the going rate in my community), and get really good at it, I'll work to deport the folks that are currently doing that job. Okay?
My community depends on migrant workers. When ICE came and rounded up a large number of folks and shipped them back to Oaxaca, the fruit rotted in our farmers fields. See, documented citizens are not exactly lining up for these jobs.
If you bothered to do any research at all, instead of just swallowing a bunch of BS from talking heads, you'd be all for a guest worker program. But you're not. And I doubt you ever will be, because for you to hold that position, you'd have to research it, and that'd be hard work, wouldn't it?
In surveying 4,387 workers in various low-wage industries, including apparel manufacturing, child care and discount retailing, the researchers found that the typical worker had lost $51 the previous week through wage violations, out of average weekly earnings of $339. That translates into a 15 percent loss in pay.
The researchers said one of the most surprising findings was how successful low-wage employers were in pressuring workers not to file for workers’ compensation. Only 8 percent of those who suffered serious injuries on the job filed for compensation to pay for medical care and missed days at work stemming from those injuries.
“The conventional wisdom has been that to the extent there were violations, it was confined to a few rogue employers or to especially disadvantaged workers, like undocumented immigrants,” said Nik Theodore, an author of the study and a professor of urban planning and policy at the University of Illinois, Chicago. “What our study shows is that this is a widespread phenomenon across the low-wage labor market in the United States.”
According to the study, 39 percent of those surveyed were illegal immigrants, 31 percent legal immigrants and 30 percent native-born Americans.
The study found that 26 percent of the workers had been paid less than the minimum wage the week before being surveyed and that one in seven had worked off the clock the previous week. In addition, 76 percent of those who had worked overtime the week before were not paid their proper overtime, the researchers found.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/02/us/02wage.h...
You forgot to mention that agricultural work is not subject to the federal minimum wage.
i didn't forget anything. this is an article. i don't agree with your "research"(ed) stance regarding this issue. i have an understanding for the agriculture economy i live out west. you're focused on one angle regarding this issue(foodstuff prices). a guest worker program/immigration limitations are something i believe should be looked at. i'll say it again these people are taken advantage of. they are also exposed to high concentrations/residue of pesticides/fertilizers. "cheap labor" comes at a cost to all. these people are allowed in to work for low wages. they can't afford health care insurance and/or auto insurance. if hurt on the job they are asked to pay for their medical care. they can't afford the care they receive at emergency dept./clinic. so that cost is SHIFTED to the paying pool/TAX payers. in addition to that angle, immigrant children work in various settings and are also taken advantage of. this model has to change. maybe we don't need as many calories. i just don't agree with modern slavery used to control prices and economical dependency. the argument is always people/citizens won't do the work.......corporations don't want to pay.
I do agree with your sentiments regarding cheap labor, and victimization of our workforce.
What I don't understand, is your conclusion that we should deport migrant workers, as though this will solve any problems at all. You're case is weak. In fact, I'd say it's non-existent.
And living "out west" doesn't grant you any sort of special knowledge. Plus you were kind of vague, so I'll lay MY cards on the table.
I live in an agrarian community in washington state. More specifically, I live in Skagit County, in the city of Mount Vernon.
My wife is a christian missionary, whose calling specifically centers around migrant workers. She speaks English natively, but also Spanish and Mixtec - Fluently. she also speaks Triqui. The two languages that I mentioned that you are unfamiliar with are languages spoken by some of the native mexican population (akin to our native american tribes)
She works with these farm workers every day. She helps them navigate our system, to get medical care, and effective education for their children. She teaches them to read and write in their own language. She raises community awareness and helps with deportation issues, where she can. When she has the time, she even teaches them about Jesus. She does this EVERY SINGLE DAY. She's spent a great deal of time in Mexico, in THEIR villages as well. She's witnessed first hand, the starvation, the racism by colonial mexicans, the lack of medical care (many people have undocumented births there because there is no clinic- they don't know their own birthdays!) and the cartel violence. The mexican government has no interest in these people. I help my wife wherever I can. With that said, I don't take your claim of being "out west" to mean anything. In fact I think the fact that you asserted it was just plain silly.
So there's a bit of *my* background. This issue is close to my heart
i was thinking the same about your view/argument. we see it differently. i think you think you know but you don't. i respect emotions/passion/being humanitarian but that's not my view/ argument. you don't get my argument because you don't want to. let's just leave it at that. your totally misunderstanding me. this is a better argument between me and someone that can concern/look at other angles besides the emotional side. you may be surprised what i know about your area.
but I doubt it. The reason I doubt it so strongly, is that you've given me no reason to believe you. You failed to support your final sentence with anything. Also, I am wary of your motives in making that statement.
Look, I first attempted to appeal to your inner-jerk by making the admittedly facetious argument about food prices. That may not have been fair on my part. I admit it. However, the appeal to emotions, was a minor point in my post - the major point was that I am immersed in this issue.
That said, there are many many reasons why simply deporting everyone won't work. Has it worked so far? I mean, you certainly couldn't fault ICE for not TRYING.
The war on illegal immigration is about as effective as the war on drugs. You simply cannot enforce something like that in the face of such a compelling supply and demand dynamic. As long as the US consumer demands drugs people will supply them, regardless. In the same vein, as long as US agriculture, and in the bigger scheme, the US consumer demands cheap labor/cheap food, you cannot effectively enforce immigration policy. There's simply too much incentive to break the law. Enforcement becomes untenable. Truth be told, from a civic standpoint, that is the core of my position.
From a humanitarian standpoint, I will appeal to emotion, although that tends to fall on deaf ears. People are content not to know about the problems of crushing poverty that face our migrant workers.
There are many good reasons why a sane guest worker program trumps our current laws (enforcable or - as is generally the case - not)
You may be suprised to find that I lament the fact that people come up here illegally and start families. I don't think it's fair to US citizens. There. I said it. I don't like that these folks come up here and have children. Do you know why they do this? It's expensive to cross the border ($3k a head, generally). It's dangerous. People come up here to work. They realize they have to stay. They can't return every six months. So they bring there families. They have children, KNOWING that it will make it easier for the next family member if they have family who are citizens here.
Take away the incentive for the coyotees, Take away the incentive for people to remain here and raise families here. Take away the incentive for people to be off the books, and off our collective radar (eg: undocumented)
How? Easy.
A guest worker program would allow for them to come here and work our farms, and go HOME to their families when growing season is over, to return when we need them next year. This eliminates those incentives, and thus removes the supply and demand problem. I have *never* heard a reasoned argument against this idea.
I'd like to. Really. I would. If you disagree, I encourage you to be the first one, to make that argument to me.
Please, I await your response.
i already suggested a guest worker program should be looked at. we 're in disconnect you don't believe me and i don't agree with you. although, i do somewhat understand several of the angles regarding this issue but i'm most interested in the anthropology/economic angle. where you are at on this issue and how you have decided to frame my comments has again put me in a "let's agree to disagree" mind set. let's even make it easier YOU are absolutely correct in everything you stated you couldn't possible be mistaken. the "cheap labor"/undocumented workers....modern day slavery is good for everyone......how's that. peace.
was your final statement in your previous post. I'd thought I had made that clear, as well as my reasons.
I implored you to respond with a reasoned argument against my suggestion of reinstating a Guest Worker Program. I explained my rationale. You have not done so. Your insulting response (eg: you can't possibly be mistaken) was not what I was looking for. This is now the second time you've taken a specific comment I made in my post and extrapolated it as though it was my entire post. If you are going to respond to my posts, I'd thank you to read them in their entirety, and to avoid taking my statements out of context. If you were to read my post again you'd see that the first part SPECIFICALLY addressed your final sentence in the post that preceded it.
it's of no consequence. i give...... i recognize high end intellect. wow my
"insulting response". let's... let it be i respect your passion/intellect as i said. we have disconnect i'm out of my league. i already stated i believe a guest worker program should be looked at. forget it dude.
The "let's deport everyone" rhetoric gets to me, and I am sorry that in retrospect I allowed it to get the best of me when reading your posts beyond the first one. I hear this stuff all the time, and it grates on me. In my community, that sentiment seems to be a code for racism. And it's so often further justified by claims of bearing knowledge of the problem. So I've grown a pretty knee-jerk response to such sentiments. Guilty.
I would implore you, if this issue is important to you, to explore a Guest Worker program in some depth. If you come away from that and don't believe it is a solution, than I'd happily respect your position as a good faith disagreement, and I really would like to understand it.
I don't think I'm out of league of anyone who approaches an issue with good-faith and research, and consequently, I really don't think that I'm out of your league. I'm pretty passionate on this, and so I can be a right bastard when it comes to this. For that I'm sorry.
Ultimately, I'd like the guest worker program to be discussed any time immigration is brought up in this country. I want national awareness. And I think that racists like Lou Dobbs are doing a great disservice to their fellow citizens by making the debate about the evils of "illegal aliens".
We need solutions.
is what i believe i stated. this is a corporate phenomenon in my opinion. for me "believe" it or not it's about space not race. this was skillfully done by corporate social engineering. are there fools that are racists? of course.. i'm not one of those fools. the sometimes false accusation of being racists is used to trump/blur the bigger questions. sometimes the race card to me not always but at times race/religion are used to protect a wrongful strategy. this is a complex issue/scenario and involves both governments/industrial food industry/corporatists. the strategy move people from the rural areas of mexico into the u.s. and mexico city to become low wage employees. low wage modern slaves. there will always be people that will deny this......corporations/shareholders love that denial. cheap(er) corn into mexico among other issues changed everything.consequences are many, but the TAX payers/paying pool have taken their share of the cost. this phenomenon is part of the stagnant wage issue.those strawberries and tomatoes are more expensive then you may realize. take it easy.
If migrant workers had any rights in this country they'd be less subject to such pressure.
They'd have some rights if we had a guest worker program again.
a major demand of your wife's MECHa chapter.
n/t
Yep. Which is why we need to reform our immigration laws, so that immigrants can get on a path to citizenship instead and come inside the system, rather than being used as a wedge from without. As long as we have a system that forces people to operate outside of the law, we're setting ourselves up to give employers a huge lever against workers.
Here's a recent report on how immigration enforcement has screwed over American workers generally:
overall you make good points. the immigration issue has not escaped the culture of deregulation/cheating. again people are taken advantage of at a cost to all americans. personally, i would like to see the immigration numbers/entries dialed back/reduced. i recently spoke to a guy who has a medium size landscaping business here in the tahoe region. he says his competitors have low wage labor. he says some of the immigrants will work for a couple meals per day. consequently the competitors can low bid jobs.
I heard it was Santa with all his deer landing on Lou's roof. Of course, he was 2 months too early and some hunter took a pot shot at the deer.
Pundits are the rich orphans of the media business. Some are former reporters, some are former political operatives, and some are just propagandists in the Limbaugh mold. Among them, transmitters are common, many of them picking up far-right memes because of their outrageousness quotient: the best way to make your reputation, as a pundit is to say something that makes headlines. No publicity is bad publicity, as they say. And the demand for pushing that "cutting edge" farther rightward becomes insatiable.
Pundit-transmitters range from one-time liberals, like Christopher Hitchens, to barely concealed extremists, like David Horowitz and Michael Savage. In between, it was commonplace to hear the late Barbara Olson repeat a Patriot legend, or for Peggy Noonan to indulge in plainly irresponsible speculations about Muslims, often straight out of the nativist handbook. The most notorious of them, probably, is Ann Coulter.
The effect of all these voices is rarely direct or acute but rather cumulative. The effect on audiences of hearing this ever-more outrageous hatefulness repeated endlessly and in the guise of mainstream speech can be lasting and profound. But who, exactly, are the audience, who are the receivers of these transmissions? --David Neiwert (chap. 3 p. 81)
The Eliminationists: How Hate Talk Radicalized the American Right
It's not just the rhetoric from the Right that worries me .
When the left refuses to recognize that legal citizens are being low balled in the labor market ,and competing for jobs with people who are here illegally.Azatlan may not be a doctrine of conquest but it is a reality.
I grew up with Immigrant families .Hell on weekends our family
picketed groceries on behalf of the UFW.I work with Mexican American
co-workers and I am married to a women whose ancestry is predominately Mexican and Creole. I have no Racial animus
Having been raised in a family that was very P.C. ,I have been a long time in coming to the conclusion that No One is willing to honestly address the reality of the chaotic mess we face with regard
to illegal immigration.
When the layoffs come(mind you I'm union)the illegals are not allowed to collect the unemployment benefits they pay for.All of the companies are aware of this .They know that by keeping illegals working,the worker is loyal to Patron and not to his Union or his co-workers to whom the issue of safety conditions and work rules
were paramount.What happens is the legal worker sits and suffers with reduced income ,and resentment simmers.
Most of my friends who are of Hispanic heritage feel pretty
much as I do and the only thing that gives them pause is the vitriolic nature of the Right wing.When my wife comes home crying
because she was screamed at in public and nearly run off the road
by two men screaming Spic,I take the position that we have a serious
problem with hate formatted as debate stirring up violent passions.
I wish I knew what the answer to this dilemma was.I do know that both sides are incorrect in their assertions.
Guest Worker Program
Why we got rid of it in the first place is beyond me.
http://www.lasculturas.com/lib/libBracero.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVBdMT7I4-M
I was specifically speaking of the Carter program. Not this bracero crap that you dredged up. I think you know that. It must take some effort to be as disingenuos as you have painted yourself to be. Congratulations.
(Edit) - Furthermore - that site pointed at by your first link has some pretty crazy stuff in it. If you read that kind of garbage regularly, it goes a long way to explaining your views. I'd hoped for better. You disappoint me.
Agent provocateur style √
They're very familiar with the premise and armed accordingly.
Hal Turner White appears at Central Judicial Processing Court in Jersey City via video link from Hudson County jail in Kearny
today....at Woodstock fairgrounds
Turned out to have come from a local cop's gun and nearby firing-range.
Putnam Police Training Could Be At Fault For Woodstock Fair Shooting
KURTZ: That is a debate for another day. We'll have you back.
i.e., We're gonna leave it there... ;)
Login or Register to post comments.