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That heavyweight intellectual, Jonah Goldberg, loves to tell his audiences that no one on the left took his masterpiece, Liberal Fascism, seriously -- they just made fun of it!

So this is how Goldberg responds to an actually serious critique.

Evidently, Goldberg thinks that ignoring a sound argument lets you declare victory over it.

Now, just to be clear: Goldberg has never responded to the core of my critique. He's tossed off side issues, but what I have said about Liberal Fascism from the get-go is that its central thesis -- that "properly understood, fascism is not a phenomenon of the right at all. Instead, it is, and always has been, a phenomenon of the left" -- simply does not have any grounding in, and is indeed refuted by, the actual historical facts about the "political space" which fascism historically occupied.

I laid it all out again not too long ago:

This is, in fact, the argument that Goldberg attempts to make in his book as well: That the fascists occupied the "political space" on the Left, and thus were simply out to compete against their fellow leftists. But this is where Goldberg most deeply portrays a lack of respect for the historical material available to him, because any careful study of the actual details of how the fascists came to power in both Italy and Germany makes abundantly clear that they were occupying the available political space on the right -- and had charged hard in that direction from early on in their drive to power.

I discussed this in some detail, citing particularly Robert O. Paxton's work in The Anatomy of Fascism. Paxton, for instance, debunks the fascists' ostensible "anticapitalism":

It turned out in practice that fascists' anticapitalism was highly selective. Even at their most radical, the socialism that the fascists wanted was a "national socialism": one that denied only foreign or enemy property rights (including that of internal enemies). They cherished national producers. Above all, it was by offering an effective remedy against socialist revolution that fascism turned out in practice to find a space. If Mussolini retained some lingering hopes in 1919 of founding an alternative socialism rather than an antisocialism, he was soon disabused of those notions by observing what worked and what didn't work in Italian politics. His dismal electoral results with a Left-nationalist program in Milan in November 1919 surely hammered that lesson home.

The pragmatic choices of Mussolini and Hitler were driven by their urge for success and power. Not all fascist leaders had such ambitions. Some of them preferred to keep their movements "pure," even at the cost of remaining marginal.

Paxton makes abundantly clear that the political space the fascists, in obtaining power, chose to occupy was clearly on the right. Goldberg, in contrast, insists that "fascism, properly understood, is not a phenomenon of the right at all" because, he explains, fascism and communism "are closely related, historical competitors for the same constituents, seeking to dominate and control the same social space." He claims throughout the book and elsewhere that fascists didn't seek out their political space on the right -- rather, they were doing so on the left.

He actually addresses Paxton's characterization with what can most kindly be characterized as a lame rebuttal (p. 47):

In November the newly named explicitly left-wing Fascists ran a slate of candidates in the national elections. They got trounced at the hands of the Socialists. Most historians claim this is what taught Mussolini to move to the "right." Robert O. Paxton writes that Mussolini realized "there was no space in Italian politics for a party that was both nationalist and Left."

This, I think, distorts the picture. Mussolini did not move fascism from left to right; he moved it from socialist to populist.

Yet if Goldberg had actually bothered to read Paxton's account of how the move occurred -- or for that matter, any other historical account of these events -- he would know that the ideological shift by Mussolini had not even the remotest thing to do with populism. Rather, it all occurred in the defense of wealthy landowners and the established economic and cultural powers, and it entailed a wave of murderous violence against socialists, leftists, and any form of progressive.

From Paxton, pp. 60-64:

Above all Mussolini bested D'Annunzio by serving economic and social interests as well as nationalist sentiment. He made his Blackshirts available for action against socialists as well as against the South Slavs of Fiume and Trieste. War veterans had hated the socialists since 1915 for their "antinational" stance during the war. Big planters in the Po Valley, Tuscany, Apulia, and other regions of large estates hated and feared the socialists for their success at the end of the war in organizing the bracianti, or landless laborers, to press for higher wages and better working conditions. Squadrismo was the conjunction of these two hatreds.

Following their victory in the first postwar election (November 1919) the Italian socialists had used their new power in local government to establish de facto control over the agricultural wage-labor market. In the Po Valley in 1920, every farmer who needed workmen for planting or harvesting had to visit the socialist Labor Exchange. The Labor Exchanges made the most of their new leverage. They forced the farmers to hire workers year-round rather than only seasonally, and with better wages and working conditions. The farmers were financially squeezed. They had invested considerable sums in transforming Po Valley marshlands in cultivable farms; their cash crops earned little money in the difficult conditions of the Italian postwar economy. The socialist unions also undermined the farmers' personal status as masters of their domains.

Frightened and humiliated, the Po Valley landowners looked frantically for help. They did not find it in the Italian state. Local officials were either socialists themselves, or little inclined to do battle with them. Prime Minister Giolitti, a true practitioner of laissez-faire liberalism, declined to use national forces to break strikes. The big farmers felt abandoned by the Italian liberal state.

In the absence of help from the public authorities, the large landowners of the Po Valley turned to the Blackshirts for protection. Glad for an excuse to attack their old pacifist enemies, fascist squadristi invaded the city hall in Bologna, where socialist officials had hung up a red banner, on November 21, 1920. Six were killed. From there, the movement quickly spread through the rich agricultural country in the lower Po River delta. Black-shirted squadristi mounted nightly expeditions to sack and burn Labor Exchanges and local socialist offices, and beat and intimidate socialist organizers. Their favorite forms of humiliation were administering uncontainable doses of castor oil and shaving off half of a proud Latin moustache. In the first six months of 1921, the squads destroyed 17 newspapers and printing works, 59 Peoples' Houses (socialist headquarters), 119 Chambers of Labor (socialist employment offices), 107 cooperatives, 83 Peasants' Leagues, 151 socialist clubs, and 151 cultural organizations. Between January 1 and April 7, 1921, 102 people were killed: 25 fascists, 41 socialists, 20 police, and 16 others.

... Long after his regime had settled into routine, Mussolini still liked to refer to the "Fascist revolution." But he meant a revolution against socialism and flabby liberalism, a new way of uniting and motivating Italians, and a new kind of governmental authority capable of subordinating private liberties to the needs of the national community and of organizing mass assent while leaving property intact. The major point is that the Fascist movement was reshaped in the process of growing into the available space. The antisocialism already present in the initial movement became central, and many antibourgeois idealists left or were pushed out. The radical anticapitalist idealism of early Fascism was watered down, and we must not let its conspicuous presence in early texts confuse us about what Fascism later became in action.

Paxton, p. 83:

The Italian Fascist Party, having discovered that in its first identity as a Left-nationalist movement the space it coveted was already occupied by the Left, underwent the necessary transformations to become a local power in the Po Valley. The Nazi Party broadened its appeal after 1928 to court farmers desperate over going broke and losing their farms. Both Mussolini and Hitler could perceive the space available, and were willing to trim their movements to fit.

The space was partly symbolic. The Nazi Party early shaped its identity by staking a claim to the street and fought with communist gangs for control of working-class neighborhoods of Berlin. At issue was not merely a few meters of urban "turf." The Nazis sought to portray themselves as the most vigorous and effective force against the communists -- and, at the same time, to portray the liberal state as incapable of preserving public security. The communists, at the same time, were showing that the Social Democrats were unequipped to deal with an incipient revolutionary situation that needed a fighting vanguard. Polarization was in the interest of both.

Fascist violence was neither random nor indiscriminate. It carried a well-calculated set of coded messages: that communist violence was rising, that the democratic state was responding to it ineptly, and that only the fascists were tough enough to save the nation from antinational terrorists. An essential step in the fascist march to acceptance and power was to persuade law-and-order conservatives and members of the middle class to tolerate fascist violence as a harsh necessity in the face of Left provocation. It helped, of course, that many ordinary citizens never feared fascist violence against themselves, because they were reassured that it was reserved for national enemies and "terrorists" who deserved it.

The path to power for both Italian Fascists and German Nazis was essentially the same: They presented themselves as "revolutionary socialists" in their initial appeals but, finding the political space for such a movement already well occupied on the left by socialists and communists, shifted their appeals and their alliances to the right and center, particularly with business capitalists who financed them, sponsored their activities, and essentially contracted with them to engage in systematic violence against the Left. For the Nazis, Fritz Thyssen, head of the nation's largest steel producer, was only the most prominent example of business capitalists who funneled money to the Nazis both as they rose to power and once they gained it.

Now, going simply from Goldberg's own inadequate definition above -- which stipulates that the Right is "respectful of religion and tradition" (in fact, a more accurate definition would stipulate that the Right "ardently defends traditional values, mores, and institutions") -- the fascists in their rise to power clearly fit the definition of being "a phenomenon of the Right" -- and not the Left.

Of course, we can also rest assured that Goldberg will never even noddingly acknowledge that the chief leg of his argument has in fact been thoroughly knocked down. Because who knows how that might affect book sales.

Now, if you look at Goldberg's actual responses to my critiques -- you can see them here, here, here and here -- you will find that he has not even attempted to address these issues. Instead, he's chosen to indulge side issues (was the Klan proto-fascist? Actually, it was.), including a feeble attack on my own work on fascism that did not address a single point that I had raised in my critique. My final smackdown of this nonsense can be read here. Jonah has never responded to it nor acknowledged it.

So Goldberg thinks he can sneer his way around historical fact with clever putdowns. Well, we'll see about that. There's more coming down the pike from serious historians who are finally ready to take seriously the toxic effects of Goldberg's fraud. We'll have more info on that soon, I hope.



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90 comments

Self-haters are always so sad.

Jonah, your book isn't even fit to wipe my ass.

Maybe your audience will grab up some of your trash in the remainders bin with all the Coulter crap.

)O(

So it's fit to wipe ann's ass?

: The New Face of Power In America" by Bertram Gross.....1980:

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Fascism/Fri...

I bought this book when I was but 34 years old and it was a major eye-opener to me.

Just think Ronnie Reagan winking and smiling as he cupped his hand around his ear "I can't hear you!!!" to the reporters questions about Iran-Contra.....

And more....

Excellent book.

I highly recommend that you peruse the website linked.

Regardless of what you call yourself (Nationalsozialismus), your actions are more indicative of your leanings than your label.

“Socialist Party” had a big draw in Europe in the 20’s and 30’s. It was attractive. Did those parties act as Socialists? No. The draw was based on fear, and the fear was used as a tool like it is being used today.

But I think there is a simpler explanation for Jonah’s work: “Fascism bad. Libruls bad too. Libruls must be Fascists. Let’s discuss…”

Jonah does not learn from history. Jonah is condemning us to repeat it.

even pretended to adhere to the socialist theories of Marx et al. The "socialist" moniker for those parties was a completelly different one from the socialist parties of the time. I don't think there was that much confusion at all.

I agree. I think the confusion is contemporary. In an attempt to conflate Fascism with current trends of the Left (whatever you think that means), the Socialist moniker is being played.

I honestly don’t know what German speaking people thought of the name “Nationalsozialismus“, but I would be willing to bet it was named according to the same rules as the "The Patriot Act“

There was not confusion between the 2 "socialist" parties.

Just like there was none between Churchill's liberals (conservatives) and Labour (left) in England.

)O(

Well one key thing is the term National instead of Personesozialismus.

To my mind is like the distinction between Liberalism and Neo-Liberalism.

Personalsozialismus? I don't get it.
how can a movement be social (group) and personal (individual) - seems like an oxymoron to me.

Nationalsozialismus is a form of Faschismus, that was based not only only the idea of national pride; that one's own country is the greatest and must be taken back from the left (as in Italian Fascism), but it also included the idea that the Aryan race is the best in the world and all threats to its purity must be eliminated.

In my opinion, an analogy can be made with Communism being a form of Socialism.

Jonah's next book: Poopy - Bad ; Libbrills - Bad

etc.

Try teaching a pig to sing: You'll waste your time and annoy the pig.

Jonah is a True Believer and nothing that you say will move him.

Your arguments will serve to move reasonable people who are trying to make up their minds.

Look at the death, damage and misery that Milton Friedman's Chicago School economics has caused in the world.

Cause = Effect, yet the crony capitalists will swear up and down that "something else" caused the end result.

True Believers are impervious to reason.

I already was able to recognize fascism when I saw it; additional historical perspective is always helpful.

Goldberg doesn't need to debate. His book sold like hotcakes, and his thesis, that Liberals are fascists, was eagerly taken up and repeated by Limbaugh, Hannity, O'Reilly, Beck, Palin and the Teabaggers. Now it's received wisdom, just like God, Apple Pie and Creationism.

The Truth is not relevant. It isn't worth worrying about or paying attention to.

History is clear. The very first thing Hitler did after he took power in Germany was to fill his new concentration camps with Communists, Socialists and Social Democrats. Dachau was built to hold the Left/Liberal opposition, not the Jews. The Jews could wait - Liberals and Commies first.

Exactly. It's the name that's relevant. And "fascism" is scary.

In fact, Frank Luntz (author of "Words That Work: It's Not What You Say, It's What People Hear") probably conducted a poll to find out what the scariest political names were, which is how that ended up being in the title.

They are a well-oiled machine. And by "well-oiled," I mean filthy stinking rich. That's what happens when you sell your soul to the highest bidder.

These guys ought to consider, if they haven't, selling their children on the blackmarket, because with their lack of any moral compass, there's a lot of money to be had.

You're getting somewhere.
Keep it up.

marched with his people into the gas chambers over half a century ago, and which one sent them both there. Before he goes around using the term "fascism" in such a happily equivocated manner.

The left is suffering from battered wife syndrome.

Stop trying to reason with your beater.

)O(

Do you prefer onion dip or chocolate?

Amen! How long is it going to take them to realize that? In the meantime we have to sit here and listen to them argue with O'Reilly, Limbaugh, Goldberg and all the other moronic right wing blowhards. They always end up looking foolish because they don't understand that facts and intellectual argument do not work with morons.

There’s an old saying…

“Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.”

My mom always told me “Never argue with an idiot. After a while, onlookers won’t be able to tell the difference.”

There is anyone else in the world who can make that statement more ironic than Jonah.

And I would also have to add that Twitter is the perfect forum for any laughable, weak-kneed attempt at a rebutal from him. It's a perfect forum for conservatives in general. As far as I can see, they have no worthwhile ideas to speak of, cannot argue their way out of a wet paper bag, and as such, I waste all the extra typed characters?

The Eliminationists is a great, solid work, and it was a real education to read it, personally.

Most conservative thought is based on soundbites and one liners which don't stand up to scrutiny. Twitter is almost the perfect vehicle for it.

I missed that Hannity thread. I found it interesting when the young U.S. Marine veteran said...

..."National Socialism is very much what we see today in this administration. It's a policy on what's line for line -- it's the same economic policy, it's the same political policy. And so if they want to talk about Nazis, then they better be careful about that conversation, because they might find that the swastika is on their own arm.

Goldberg is a putz, and legend in his own mind. Right-wingers make their own truths, often out of obvious lies. I listened to Randi Rhodes today, and she pointed out that the other day, O'Reilly said he'd never called the late Dr. Tiller a "baby killer." She proceed to play 13 soundbites in which he did exactly that.
How many times 'til the end did Cheney mentioned that Mohammed Atta was in Iraq, prior to 9/11. Believe, I could go on and on about those useless bastards, but why bother, you gracefully do it for us. Thank you C & L.

Have you ever argued with a Ron Paul supporter?

You can show them his voting record and the fact that he favors weakening gun control, deregulation, anti-gay legislation, taking control of a woman's body from her and so on and on...

...and it's all a plot to discredit their perfect master.

The evidence is THERE - but it makes no difference to a true believer.

)O(

Tue, 10/06/2009 - 18:50 — shag12@sbcglobal.net
______________________________________________

They make their own Bibles too.

Jonah Golderg's mother is Lucy Ann Goldberg, collegue and fellow conspirator of the sleazy Linda Tripp....the apple doesn't fall far from the tree..enough said.

Jonah, the literal SOB.

)O(

Which one, John, Paul, George or Ringo?

I have it on good authority she was also LBJ's "Monica"

with no life experience and a very poor understanding of history and no ability to understand what he has live through in the past eight years. Goldberg is a useless wingnut. I dropped the LA Times the day they announced he would be in the paper along with Max Boot.

is about as smart as a goldfish.

unfortunately Jonah has swallowed a lot of even dumber fish with his half-baked ideas and logical fallacies, the worshippers of the doughy pantload.

)O(

I know Moussealine said fascism is corporatism, so doughy pantload is full of it, but couldn't one also argue that what Moussealini thinks doesn't count, since all he was doing is rationalizing the usurpation of absolute power?

Was the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics a republican form of government?

Jonah Golberg has a profoundly corrosive impact on our public discourse. He is the anti-intellectual in that reading his work actually makes you dumber and more ignorant.

Ignoring him won't make him go away, but neither will demolishing his arguments with logic. Treat the ahistorical, ill-informed fool with mockery and derision.

)O(

Better yet set him up in a honeytrap with jeff gannon.

My final smackdown of this nonsense can be read here. Jonah has never responded to it nor acknowledged it.

Actually, the twitter thinger WAS his response. It was the best he could do.

.

A trifecta of losers.

...David's thread noting Harvey Milk a short time ago, had me looking into Jim Jones

This Jim Jones, was allegedly in search of a socialist utopia... was he just another religious NUT-JOB(Like Glenn Beck)? It seems he was very accepting of others? Was he practicing Fascism while at the same time practicing socialism?

I just think he was another NUT-JOB using religion to make a (caution graphic) KILLING...PUN INTENDED!

Could somebody offer their opinion on Jim Jones and how they would label that kook? Thanks

.

This post is a fabulous example of the difference between somebody on the left who is able to debate a subject that somebody (in this case Jonah Goldberg) just pulled out of his ass. Jonahberg made something up and for some reason thought that it would be just all right. Well it is all right for the "all right" because they 1) Don't know how to assess a topic critically, 2)Act like lemmings follow each other over the proverbial cliff every time (Sarah Palin), 3)and do whatever their right wing bosses tell them to (the whole crew at Fox News) and most of them are the Joe the Plumber types who don't know how to read anyway.
We have David Neiwert who has more brains in his little finger than anybody over at Fox and is able and willing to critically defuse an idiotic claim made by an idiot in about 10 seconds. Like shooting fish in a barrel.

What I find most repulsive about Goldberg's ridiculous book is the sad fact that he is such an ideological fanatic that he is willing to actually lie about,and thus absolve the very same forces that ferociously sought his own people's ultimate annihilation.
How low can one possibly go?

“In 1919 an anti-semitic right-wing political party called the German Workers' Party was founded in Munich; this party adopted the combined "national-social" ideology. In 1920 the party added "National Socialist" to its name and thus became the National Socialist German Workers' Party” or Nazi Party.

In my own personal opinion, they chose the name National-Socialist because it sounds pretty in German. Hey Jonah, if I told you that a rose was a lemon, what would that rose smell like??

I seriously find it hard to understand why anyone in their right mind would stoop to arguing with Jonah Goldberg. You just give him more credibility in the eyes of his moronic followers. You can't sway idiots with intellectual argument. Ignore them and quit giving them power! Why is that so difficult to understand?!!

Sorry, but folks like yourselves are perpetually wondering why their liberal ideals aren't adopted by popular acclaim and enacted as policy, while people like Goldberg whip up teabaggers and send them screeching into your town halls shouting gibberish, and then somehow they're proclaimed the winners of the debate because they made the most noise. And you all wonder how in the hell this happens. It happens because no one takes it seriously enough to diligently knock it down. Silence for the right is always assent.

and always a legitimization of their often bellowed world views.

Of particular concern to me is the fact that more than 40% of our adult population is functionally illiterate. For these people (so many of whom are members of the Angry Group), emotions (and fears, resentments, etc.) tend to manifest in extremely conservative opinions--deeply etched in stone.

These poor, under-educated, misguided fools deserve our pity. We truly accomplish nothing by wallowing in the muddy bog of their abject ignorance--either by name-calling or whinging...or both...

Merely by virtue of the fact that we advocate for progressive change, we are advocating for them as well! As a fix-it kinda gal, I strongly encourage all of my fellow progressives to bear in mind that as long as We The People REACT to these pathetic pontificators, we are on their turf, we are playing their game, and we lose.

We would do well to remember the words of George Bernard Shaw:

"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."

They wouldn't have any credibility had not the "weeny" liberals gone on their programs and "debated" with them armed with all their facts and intellectual superiority, only to be made to look like fools because the right doesn't care about facts. The people who take Jonah Goldberg seriously cannot be swayed because they're not rational. I've lived for years in a red state and have worked and lived among these people. Einstein's definition of insanity: "Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Good luck.

how he dodges the MASSIVE GAPING HOLE that fascists are about racial purity, while one of the main tenants of progressives and liberals is the acceptance of all races and cultures.

When I think "racial purity party," the Democrats aren't the first to come to mind.

(Don't worry, I won't read it.)

The Doughy Pantload (Mr. Goldberg) has always responded to my e-mails. His replies are always snide, catty and juvenile, of course, but at least he takes the time to read my missives. I guess being a well-recompensed asshole allows that luxury.

It's amazing, really. He and other reich-wingers have the emotional and intellectual depth of a spoiled third-grader.

Drop him a line. He'll wet his pants and then fire off an insulting and ultimately empty riposte.

BID

Thanks but no thanks. I get enough porn spam in my inbox.

developed a reliable and replicable study showing that better than 70% of adults in the US are emotionally and morally on the same level as a 13 year old. Same black and white, concrete thinking; same trust/relationship issues; same preoccupation with sex, drugs, and Rock 'n' Roll.

Conflate that with the high percentage of adults who are functionally illiterate, and we get Glenn Beck ...and Rush Limbaugh ... and Bill O'Reilly ... and Michelle Malkin ... Hannity ... Coulter ... Savage ...et. al

Why can't cognitive dissonance be the new nationwide epidemic?!?

... even parrots can be taught to regurgitate polysyllabic words.

!

Goldberg is a propaganda spearpoint for the conservative quasi-intellectual and pundit, just as Ann Coulter and her ilk perform a similar function for the rabble they wish to lead on behalf of their paymasters.

Of course he can't justify his 'theories' to Mr. Neiwert, or anyone else knowledgeable of history and its true paths for he cannot, being busy patching together his rat's nest of alternate false histories and tending to his cottage industry of tendentious lectures and on-camera dissembling sessions with similarly well-fed rent-an-insurrectionists.

Your clown shoes are waiting, Jonah - put them on and dance some more a while for us.

;>)

doughy pantload, if you haven't already.

...But he has crossed my path a time or two.

;>)

Thanks ever so. :)

is another example of our failed system. That his existence was squirted out of a man of means, his scribblings somehow have merit, shows how close to a monarchy we truly are.

[Comment Deleted By Administration For Violation Of Terms Of Service]

Wouldn't it be "tweet in his face"

:p

I tend to distrust anyone who begins with what they are trying to prove and then twist themselves into all kinds of knots working backwards in order to prove it.

I have no problem with people starting with a theory but when that theory doesn't pan out as sometimes/often happens, then one has an obligation to state the obvious, not continue down the road whistling that happy tune as if nothing can penetrate some imaginary bubble of truth.

In other words, you can't just make stuff up and not be expected to defend it.

Except on corporate TV...

"catapulting the propaganda."

It looks like the MSM is catipulting Republican propaganda then.

'They are history's actors, and us, all of us, will be left to just study what they do' - judiciously, of course.

;>)

it is difficult living the reality-based world where the laws of nature do apply. :)

We don't have to fumble through public lives trying to keep our stories straight in order to 'maintain the fiction', for the most part. Feckless historical revisionism is hard work.

;>)

I know that practically it matters a great deal to people's perceptions, but in intellectual terms it's moot to ask whether Hitler and Mussolini were on the Left or the Right. The real question is: what did they do that was reprehensible, and is anyone emulating that today? No doubt Fascists and Communists came up with good ideas every now and then (a stopped clock and all that); do we reject the same good ideas just because they were first implemented in a fascist or communist regime? No; we reject them only if they are evil or ineffective. Not that we should let this "Liberal Fascism" business go unanswered; it's just that people need to point out the nature of the argument lest it devolve into "Is not!" "Is too!"

The problem is this paranoid notion that Obama and other Democrats secretly subscribe to an entire agenda that they are not telling us about, and so we have to look for clues. (Actually, given the bad job the media did in covering the Bush White House, it's not so hard to imagine that a White House's agenda might be obscured from the general public. Hmm.)

Past is prologue. Cause > Effect.

.

.

David,

R E M E M B E R:

Jonah Goldberg does not know the difference between Socialism, Fascism and Communism. That is what you're dealing with. Good luck!

.

what will bring fascism to america is high unemployement and the elimination of the middle class

corp fascism is already here

while americans sleep and shop fascism will come to america

look how obama has towed the line since moving into the white house

makes one wonder who is in control of the zoo

the industrial military complex???????????

the day will come in america when people will be taken from their homes who resist this fascism.

even the media is becoming fascist.

we aint seen nothing yet.

americans are dumb enough to believe that two tall buildings fell a few minutes apart.

if fascists can make them believe that they can make them believe anything.

Jonah Goldberg: Garbage in, garbage out.

when john stewart interviewed him about his book, "liberal fascism"; i never have enjoyed jonah more than in that moment. thanks john stewart for making another excellent command performance from behind the only desk that matters on the cable networks, even though it is a comedy show rather than a news show that is unintentionally comedic when trying to be serious (eh fox?).

David, Goldberg doesn't have the guts, integrity or intellect to respond with substance - but these debunks are valuable, so please keep 'em coming.

I like this intellectual confrontation. This is the type of confrontation that liberals have shied away from for some time. For the last 15 or 20 years, liberals have opted for more polite conversation. It is time that we follow the example of Al Franken and directly refute the lies of the right. Jonah Goldberg has been trying to rewrite history for years. I appreciate your time and effort in doing the research and specifically arguing against Jonah Goldberg's book -- point by point. This the kind of work that needs to be done in order to push back against the noise machine. All progressives should salute you.

about people who mock others' arguments instead of engaging with them?

The fact that conservatives see Jonah Goldberg as an intellectual, tells you exactly how bankrupt the conservative movement really is.

than he deserves.

It's just J-Dough, the doughy pantload, 'little Lord Loadinpants,' ignorant reeking spawn of the feculent, odious Lucianne.

He can be ignored, unless he comes to your house looking for food...

(but how do i get him out of my refrigerator)

The Reslug baby is obviously still hiding under his ignorant Mothers skirt.

I followed the link to doughy's twitter feed. That's two minutes of my life that I squandered and can never get back.

Jonah writes as if its him v Neiwert. But really its him versus the entire community of historians and political scientists.

Just be carefull, you're kinda close to getting into a pissing contest with this particular dim-witted skunk. Dont let up however, nothing pisses me off more than these useless losers creating their own version of history (I hate those FIG books, politically incorrect, more like factually incorrect), club them with the truth until they stop moving.

He was obviously uncomfortable doing it, and my original bookmark url stopped working so I thought it had been wiped. But it still exists. Ledeen basically said, gently, that Goldberg was totally wrong on the essentials.

The url is http://pajamasmedia.com/michaelledeen/2008/01...

Ledeen knows a lot about fascism, and makes it pretty clear Goldberg does not.

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