Maddow wonders if we have been overlooking our home-grown terrorists
Rachel Maddow last night caught up with that strange domestic terrorism case out of Maine that we reported on awhile back as part of a larger trend we're seeing of ratcheted-up rhetoric and increasingly violent expressions coming from the American far right since Barack Obama's election.
Maddow: But should this guy have been found out -- I dunno, before he died? And, post-9/11, have we focused too much on stopping Bin Laden again at the expense of potentially stopping the next Timothy McVeigh?
Good question. And the answer is clearly yes. The Maine incident is only the latest in a long string of cases of serious domestic terrorism emerging from the extremist Right since 9/11. Some of the others include:
-- The far-right "Patriot" who constructed a sodium cyanide bomb capable of killing hundreds.
-- The Alabama militiamen who plotted to go on an anti-Latino killing rampage.
-- The ex-Army Ranger who planned an anti-abortion killing spree.
-- The young skinheads who wanted to kill 107 black people and cap it off with Barack Obama.
There has also been outright malfeasance on the part of the FBI when it came to investigating far-right extremists in the past eight years.
That appears to be changing -- the FBI has been public about its concerns regarding the resurgence in white-supremacist hate groups and their activities and recruitment since Obama's election. We'll have to see if that translates into tackling the problem seriously.
This is hardly surprising. After all there was no way that the Bush administration was going after "the base." While not all of the Republican base are violent, far right whackjobs, a very large percentage of them do in fact sympathize with the violent fringe (see Beck, Glenn) and would react negatively to a government crackdown on the extremists. As you and I have discussed before, these violent rightwing extremists are and always have been the greatest threat to American security. They largely have been quiet for the past 8 years, as they perceived Bush to be in sympathy with them, but they are bound to come screaming out of the bushes now that we have a black Democratic president and a Democratically controlled congress.
When accused murderers run away to countries which don't have state-sponsored-murder (a/k/a the "death penalty"), US Attorneys General fight tooth and nail to have the person extradited to face trial and execution.
When the christian terrorist and serial killer James Kopp was on the run, Ashcroft bent over backwards to pull state-sponsored-murder off the table as quickly as possible.
The George Putz administration overlooked domestic terrorists because almost without exception, they agree agreed with their twisted ideologies. They did nothing because they liked what was being done, (e.g. christian terrorist Eric Rudolph and his bombing of abortion clinics and gay bars).
Why else do you not hear a word from Beck and Limbaugh about the Floridiot spree murderer who killed Chileans who were in the US legally, while you hear endless reichwing drivel about illegal aliens who killed people?
Example, the as-yet non-deported Michelle Maudlin:
http://michellemalkin.com/2007/11/27/more-ill...
It mirror's the reichwing's obsession with gays as an alleged "threat" while they ignore straights who molest children (e.g. the 1 in 25 US catholic priests since 1950).
... that ArmaGlennon and Chuckles the Ninja are more laughable than dangerous (seriously - you're going to mount armed resistance against the government, so you go on the web, radio, and television and tell them exactly where to find you and all of your wackaloon friends?), but we had conservatives wetting themselves over anti-war protests, and how they were all being underwritten by commies and/or terrorists.
What liberals asked for during the Bush Administration was accountability, and the use of Congress' right to impeach the bastard.
What conservative wingnuts are advocating is the overthrow of the legitimate government, to replace it with their Christian Dominionist Revival bullshit.
Liberals objected to a war launched on false pretenses and the violations of international and domestic law. Meanwhile, the wingnuts wore their flag pins, slapped yellow ribbon magnets on their SUVs, and told themselves they were patriots for not questioning an idiot cowboy and his corrupt advisors.
Now, in the face of restored accountability and having all of the idiot cowboy's excesses reined in, the wingnuts want to go all Red Dawn on the country.
And, once again, the country ignores what they're doing, or jokes about it, and when the next attack inevitably hits, everyone will act so surprised.
We really have to get past thinking that these people wouldn't really try to hurt their country. They would. From Rush right on down to the looniest whack-job Dittohead, they are completely willing to send this country down the tubes to get their way. Hell, they've almost succeeded already and we're still in denial about their intentions, even though they are so in our faces about it.
These people, many of whom are completely unstable, are amassing arsenals and planning for a civil guerilla war. For them, a black president is the final straw.
We need to wake up and take serious action.
Even a megalomaniacal head case like J. Edgar Hoover knew the dangers that these groups posed.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
It's just a matter of time before another Right Wing-NutO will do some racist, criminal act to hurt somebody.
With all this.
I believe the Federal Government, and the Neocon's (Cheney, Perle, Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld) have always had the wet dream of delivering The U.S. Patriot Act, FISA, The Military Commissions Act and the Constitution be damned.
Now we have Cheney's secret assassination team.
Here's a link to what's happening in Missouri and this story troubles me, because they are labeling Americans like Ron Paul and Bob Barr as "terrorists" because they are so fervent about protecting the Constitution:
http://thetruthorthefight.wordpress.com/2009/...
I personally do not consider those who have a Libertarian philosophy as "terrorists".
What say all of you?
And one more thing: Let's not forget the past and COINTELPRO.
Remember the guys who did all the sniper shooting around D.C. right after 9/11 and scared the Bejesus out of the Congress members? Many articles I read suggested the shooter was a CIA asset.
If Seymour Hersh's article has any merit as to the whole assassination team story, then I feel we have to understand that it would be completely plausible that some/many? of these incidents could be manufactured in order to get Lieberman's "Homegrown Terrorism Legislation" through (anybody remember HIM??).
Look what happened after The Oklahoma City Bombing of the Murtha Building by McVeigh.
Clinton's Crime Bill went sailing through Congress.
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
Abbywood!
Libertarians are a our side today.
Remembers jul 25 2008 most of those (Bob Bar, Bruce Feine etc) supported BUSH impeachment.
I heard than in OKLAHOMA occured secundary explosions. McVeight's truck could NOT do that much damage alone. He was another PATSY!
Since hardly any of them are brought to account, isn't there are whiff of being unpatriotic if we make too big a deal about them?
of course they are...they are elected to public office by their constituencies.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
To watch our home-grown seeds of terror, watch the unwatcable Geln Beck tonight.
Me? I'd rather blind myself than watch that creepy punk.
...had racist overtones. Many of the bigots couldn't contain their sick hatred and wait until the man entered the White House before slamming every move the guy made. We have racist sleeper cells throughout America waiting for a chance to kill Americans....Al Qaeda has got nothing on these hate criminals.
...but I know somebody personally who was killed by one of these white supremacists. The examples in David's piece are only the tip of the iceberg.
..I believe the anthrax killer is still walking the streets, a free man. Ivins was NEVER convicted and any investigation ended with his death. SCAPEGOAT Also, I've always found it interesting that the administration funneled $5 million bucks to the Iraqi security official who wrote a memo which added lies to the lies the Bush administration told America was justification for the war in Iraq. Hmmm, $5 million is the amount the original person of interest, Hatfield, also received from the government in a settlement.
Smells to high heaven, it does!
Mickey: "It was an epiphany. Do you know what an epipany is?"
Keoni: "NOT NOW MICKEY!"
http://www.ph.ucla.edu/EPI/bioter/anthraxmiss...
it was phillip zack
the anthrax killer(s) work for the US government.
the 9-11 attacks were NOT carried out by whom the US government says did it.
does saying that make me a right wing/left wing homegrown terrorist?
...hope this opens up some eyes.
The extremism being preached on the radios and televisions in America has to be the controlling knob here. All of this talk on wanting Obama to fail...or any president or politician for that matter...all it does is fuel the sick minds of those who think that violence is the answer.
Bernie Goldberg should see this. Glenn Beck should see this. Bill O'Reilly should see this. Sean Hannity should see this. Rush Limbaugh should see this. Ann Coulter should see this. Michelle Malkin should see this.
They don't, because they get paid not to see this. Hate speech drives people to do these things, and as long as shillers of the extreme-media punch are miles away from the threat, they're okay with it.
blaming free speech for the actions of the unstable.
yeh thats real good guys >_<
I am blaming the speech from people that have no idea about the consequences of their words. Are you telling me that Bernie Goldberg isn't to shoulder some of the blame for Jim David Adkisson's shootings in Tennessee?
I'm all for free speech. But I am also for freedom from slander.
the FBI declared that the number 1 domestic terrorism threat was the "eco-terrorism, animal rights movement".
Think about that a second. Environmentalists and animal rights activists have never killed anyone, yet they are the number 1 threat.
They are listed on the DHS terrorist list while white supremacists and anti-abortionists are not.
We're not overlooking home-grown terrorists, just redefining who they are.
Source:
http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/green-sc...
osama bin ladens not even on their list.
THINK ABOUT THAT SHIT
BTW, Cheney should top that list.
the fbi's lists arent exactly sources of good info on whos a threat and who isnt
was sentenced to 19+ years under the new terrorism laws.
Go read this story about the FBI informant who engineered the whole caper:
http://www.indybay.org/uploads/2008/05/22/200...
Can't decide what's a bigger threat- Guantanamo Prisoners or these domestic terrorists. Here is an update on the closing of Gitmo; http://www.governmentalityblog.com/my_weblog/...
If they investigated/arrested right-wing terrorists. To conservatives an psycho who wants to kill liberals is a hero.
what about the other 100+ "black sites" we use to hold prisoners w/out due process? obamas already decided to follow the bush template of no rights for detainees captured in afghanistan, not to mention preemptive strike (the bush doctrine).
For bringing up what is more of a threat than Middle Eastern terrorists. The home-grown terrorists are already here, percolating their half-baked ideas under the radar. What are the Middle Eastern terrorists going to do, swim here? I think most Americans are appalled by home-grown terrorists, though the wacko-right base continues to try to fuel that madness. Yet, do we really want another Oklahoma City, which killed men, women and children? I think not.
anthrax killer = Dr. Phillip Zack
"There has also been outright malfeasance on the part of the FBI when it came to investigating far-right extremists in the past eight years."
gee i wonder why...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_provocateur
It's no surprise to me that most of these Christo-fascist, militant, anti-government groups have more in common with the GOP's right-wing (including right-wing talking heads like Falafel Boy and Sean Hannity) than anyone else. These groups are Palin's base, like the Alaska Independence Party, KKK, and a number of other racist groups throughout the West and Northwest.
this has been going on way long before you were born.
it's like
Seems like people worship pain
All your oprahs and donahues
They just can't explain
anyone aware of eric holder's involvement in the OK City bombing coverup?
What coverup? Or are you saying there was something more than McVeigh/Nichols going on?
http://kmtreward.com/information.html
good site to start if you're really interested
Really. Don't fucking come here, say, "Hey, are you aware of Holder's involvement in the OK Bombing coverup?" and when someone asks for details, sneer at them and say, "Do your homework."
If I knew what you were talking about, I wouldn't have asked. You couldn't even sum up your proposition in a simple paragraph.
not trying to get banned homie.
but holders been implicated in covering up the murder of a prisoner who was murdered to cover up OK City.
basically they thought this dude was richard lee guthrie jr...john doe #2
so they killed him in his cell and said it was a suicide when it clearly wasnt. the family won a lawsuit against the govt recently. that site i spammed the url for was the family's site.
im not trolling ur just lazy and lack the curiosity to google for 3minutes and find out.
hee to the fuckin haw man
do you know that a fuel/fertilizer bomb couldn't have done the damage to the buildings farthest support columns as the government says it did?
do you know that multiple explosive devices were removed FROM INSIDE the building that were more powerful than the Ryder truck bomb?
do u know about the video that shows mcveigh about a mile away from the building when the shit blew up?
etc etc etc
... heard the first theory, but not the second.
It almost seems that if the perpetrator is domestic, the default position is 'one lone nut.' If the perpetrator is foreign, then it's 'vast foreign conspiracy.'
Still, there are echoes of 9/11 here - that there were other charges planted in the building that contributed to its collapse.
Makes you wonder.
just youtube/googel search for the news reports from OKC of the multiple devices, and the streets being locked down, and crowds retreating after the devices were discovered.
then the media clamped down on those reports and they were memory holed.
... I was handling the feed from OKC that night, and I don't remember any discovery of additional devices.
maybe this will jog your memory.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWwrEEP8EBk
1st minute or so is an analysis of the explosion by Brig Gen Benton Parton, then it gets into the news broadcast(s) of the the event that refer to multiple devices
of domestic terrorism.
n/t
... that Timothy McVeigh wanted to base his defense on his actions being necessary to prevent an imminent threat by the government.
Which is no different than ArmaGlennon and Chuckles the Ninja.
[Deleted. Off Topic. Kathleen, I'm really close to banning you. You're chattering the same thing all over the site. And, quite frankly, what you're chattering is rubbing shoulders with anti-semitism. Site Monitor]
:X
[What do you not get about the words "off topic"? It means "not on topic" take it to an OPEN THREAD, Kathleen. Site Monitor]
["Off topic" does not mean "offensive topic". It means "not on topic". We have at least one OPEN THREAD a day, Kathleen, where you can post on any topic you like. Site Monitor]
i want to witness you apply your off topic standards consistently but you do not
[You and I both know that you're not trying to talk about Maddow. You are trying to talk about the same topic that you brought up at the Stewart/Cramer thread. Site Monitor]
You couldn't have said, "Holder is involved with the coverup of the death of so-and-so, who was suspected of being John Doe #2"?
That's all I asked for, a simple declarative statement. You instead chose to shit a link and respond like anyone who didn't know what you were talking about was/is stupid and/or lazy.
call the waaaaahmbulence
:user ignored:
im not dealing with ur fight or flight responses in the face of research
[I'm sorry you don't get it, Kathleen. I've been trying and trying to steer you to an OPEN THREAD, but you won't heed the direction. You are welcome to talk about anything there. Now it's going to be at least a few weeks before you can do that. You should have written to us directly rather than drone on about it here. Site Monitor]
Contacting Rachel via her website?
The guy who went on a rampage in the Knoxville Unitarian Church? How come he's not on this list?
That's terrorism spurred on directly by Savage, Hannity, Limpballs and company. If I were a memeber of that church, I'd sue the crap out of them.
You have to admit, Christianity is the world's worse terrorist death cult, even worse than Islam. The only reason Christianity managed to survive was by being the worst mass tyranny of its time, ideals which continue to make Christianity the death cult that it is today.
What's the difference between fundy muslims today and the crusaders of a millennium ago?
Technology.
The crusaders were willing to attack and be killed for "the glory of 'god'" and "a place in heaven", exactly like the suicide bombers of today. And in the time of the crusaders, it was the christians who acted like savages - cannibalism, mistreating their prisoners and rationalizing the breaking of promises. If the European christians had had airplanes, they would have hijacked them and flown them into Saladin's citadel.
The only difference between Pat Robertson and Osama bin Laden is what they could get away with. The intent is exactly the same.
Homegrown USA company and repeat offender Baxter unleashed potential for destruction and terror from avian flu far more worse than wingnut dirty bombs and anthrax.
Any non-criminal excuses for this circumstance possible, or plausible?
Remember the BAYER/BAXTER HIV fiasco of getting caught infecting hemophiliacs with HIV?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkbXQmkBmvk
Maybe it's terror-prevention, when our rogue FDA can cover up weaponized medicines, and spare us from knowing to be concerned/terror-struck.
I have a prediction. Keep your eye out for people like Bob Barr, the man who went from Clinton inquisitor to (ahem) passionate defender of liberty. I wondered, why would the Patriot Act offend this man who normally would be cheering on the authoritarians. Maybe he foresaw Bush's anti-terrorism regs bring turned on homegrown terrorists: the bomb makers, lynch mobs, murderers of gays, abortion clinic bombers, the whole hyper-violent torture-loving guns and jeebus crowd. You know, Republicans.
The anthrax killer - yes
The others you list no: who constructed, plotted to go, who planned, who wanted. That could only be a thought crime.
Maybe I act out planning a murder, preparing for a book - does that make me a murderer? Please.
The only way of "potentially stopping the next Timothy McVeigh" would be 100% surveillance and tracking. Then we would all be safe.
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