More Beck Babble: Wind power needs nukes to work
Just to be a jerk, Glenn Beck yesterday used his show to demonstrate -- like a number of his fellow right-wingers -- his utter contempt for Earth Hour: running his klieg lights at full blast to show how much energy he could waste. Yeah, that's the kind of responsible rhetoric we need more of. Whatever.
But the really special moment in the broadcast came when he started talking about wind power as an alternative form of energy with Tom Borelli of the "Free Enterprise Action Fund" -- a right-wing anti-environmental outfit -- about the Obama energy plan, and this burst out:
Beck: You can't make wind energy work without nuclear energy as well. Wind stops --
Borelli: You know that, but Congress doesn't know that.
Beck: Use your common sense! Hey America! Use common sense here! Let just try this out!
Wind, when it blows, makes energy. When it stops, you can't store it, so what's making the energy? Wind energy doesn't work without something else making energy for when the wind stops, which it does -- especially if Al Gore controls the temperature, and all the winds and everything else, so we never have blowy days!
Agh!
The problem with Beck is that he packs so much ignorance and misinformation into a single rant that it's hard to figure out where to start. Suffice to say that one can easily find out that there are numerous strategies for dealing with the unreliability of wind power:
Electricity generated from wind power can be highly variable at several different timescales: from hour to hour, daily, and seasonally. Annual variation also exists, but is not as significant. Because instantaneous electrical generation and consumption must remain in balance to maintain grid stability, this variability can present substantial challenges to incorporating large amounts of wind power into a grid system. Intermittency and the non-dispatchable nature of wind energy production can raise costs for regulation, incremental operating reserve, and (at high penetration levels) could require an increase in the already existing energy demand management, load shedding, or storage solutions or system interconnection with HVDC cables. At low levels of wind penetration, fluctuations in load and allowance for failure of large generating units requires reserve capacity that can also regulate for variability of wind generation.
A series of detailed modelling studies which looked at the Europe wide adoption of renewable energy and interlinking power grids using HVDC cables, indicates that the entire power usage could come from renewables, with 70% total energy from wind at the same sort of costs or lower than at present. Intermittency would be dealt with, according to this model, by a combination of geographic dispersion to de-link weather system effects, and the ability of HVDC to shift power from windy areas to non-windy areas.[27][28]
Pumped-storage hydroelectricity or other forms of grid energy storage can store energy developed by high-wind periods and release it when needed.[29] Stored energy increases the economic value of wind energy since it can be shifted to displace higher cost generation during peak demand periods. The potential revenue from this arbitrage can offset the cost and losses of storage; the cost of storage may add 25% to the cost of any wind energy stored, but it is not envisaged that this would apply to a large proportion of wind energy generated. Thus the 2 GW Dinorwig pumped storage plant adds costs to nuclear energy in the UK for which it was built, but not to all the power produced from the 30 or so GW of nuclear plants in the UK.
In particular geographic regions, peak wind speeds may not coincide with peak demand for electrical power. In California and Texas, for example, hot days in summer may have low wind speed and high electrical demand due to air conditioning. Some utilities subsidize the purchase of geothermal heat pumps by their customers, to reduce electricity demand during the summer months by making air conditioning up to 70% more efficient;[30] widespread adoption of this technology would better match electricity demand to wind availability in areas with hot summers and low summer winds. Geothermal heat pumps also allow renewable electricity from wind to displace natural gas and heating oil for central heating during winter, when winds tend to be stronger in many areas. Another option is to interconnect widely dispersed geographic areas with a relatively cheap and efficient HVDC "Super grid". In the USA it is estimated that to upgrade the transmission system to take in planned or potential renewables would cost at least $60 billion[31]. Total annual US power consumption in 2006 was 4 thousand billion kilowatt hours. [32] Over an asset life of 40 years and low cost utility investment grade funding, the cost of $60 billion investment would be about 5% p.a. ie $3 billion p.a. Dividing by total power used gives an increased unit cost of around $3,000,000,000 x 100 / 4,000 x 1 exp9 = 0.075 cent / kWh.
In other words, it's entirely possible to build all kinds of storage capacity to overcome the problem. Wind power certainly works best as a complementary part of a larger energy grid in which there are multiple forms of power generation. The key is building a grid that carries the capacity to storage.
Moreover, there's nothing that says nuclear power needs to be the source for this complementary power. Here in the Northwest, we have lots of hydroelectric power as our energy base; other regions use coal-fired plants. Solar energy is also becoming a bigger player in the puzzle, as are other forms of generation.
Glenn Beck might understand all this a little better if he were using someone other than an industry shill for his information source.
What a frgn' jackass.
Too bad his set didn't catch fire from all of the heat generated from his lights.
This guy is a total jerk.
Please deflate your tires and don't use a seatbelt to thumb your nose at LIBERAL GOVERNMENT REGULATION.
Almost any kind of cleaner car will burn some gas, at least in the ignition stage but windmills run on wind.
However, I don't know if electricity might be needed to change their direction when the wind does, or what the source of that power will be.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Hopefully it could be solar.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
It changes its direction automatically with the power of the wind itself. You need to read up on windmills. Ever see the little thingee (wrong technical term) on the tail of the windmill? That's what makes it rotate
Understanding stuff is for liberals.
...
A turbine placed in front of Glen Beck's mouth (or Hannity's or Limbaugh's) would assure an incessant flow of electricity. Granted, electricity too stupid to flow through copper wires, but non-stop for sure.
"The Good and Great Must Ever Shun, That Reckless and Abandoned One
Who Stoops to Perpetrate a Pun," Lewis Carroll, 'The Three Voices.'
if you turned anyone one of those 3 disinformation-spewing, rancid adolescents around.
"Secular humanism -- a fearless, realistic world view replete with doubt and scepticism that attempts to attain an unachievable state of equilibrium between and among the human qualities of reason, intuition, imagination, memory, ethics and common sense.
Stick those turbines in front of their rear ends as well...they all blow hot air out of both ends.
Glenn Beck.
Bill O'Reilly.
Norm Coleman.
Keepin' up to date with those who count.
also have electrical backups to turn them. However, even with that in mind, does anyone have any idea how many wind towers it would take to even power a portion of Washington? Boston? LA? There would be no land left, just miles and miles of windtowers. Unfortunately, they do not produce enough for the population without having the damn things everywhere. Seeing one or two is cool. Seeing hundreds or thousands, is an ungodly aweful sight. Trust me. We have them all over my province and they are damn ugly, and noisier than you would think.
Batteries backup many things.
I actually think turbines look kind of cool...I used to live in The Netherlands, and there were a couple of places with wind farms. They are noisy, though.
I hate that.
Orders of magnitude more birds are killed due to environmental snafus than because of windmills.
Windows kill birds too. I hated it so much I took all my windows out.
are actually nice looking. These new taxpayer money suckers, are not. They are ugly as hell. It's been proven that they have to be certain distances from people. So power needed for cities, has them decimating farmlands all over my area. They are ugly, they bring little power per turbine, and they are very noisy.
I believe windmill farms will eventually be seen as the lesser evil.
Until I'm willing to give up technology and live like an Amish person, I have to deal with imperfections.
Try living in west Texas, where there are endless miles of nothing but oil derricks. Talk about ugly. We also have a lot of wind turbines which look a hell of a lot better than the oil shit. We have one right in town. Does it look unattractive to me? NO. I think it's a thing of beauty considering how much cleaner the energy is. If I could have one in my backyard I absolutely would.
Fuck Glenn Beck's ignorant ass.
the argument isn't if Global Warming is real or not. It's the cause. Everyone but Limbaugh, Malkin, Beck and Hannity listeners know it's happening and what's causing it. Beck keeps saying he's not a conservative he's a Libertarian yet all he's been doing is spewing conservative lies. Who are the people giving him these ratings? I want names. He's a goofy looking fuck that people actually take serious. This scares me that he's so popular.
The new media, cry and lie and people will follow.
is intended to be a factual statement
A "rodeo clown" to keep your attention off the rape and robbery of the American public
Libertarians are conservatives. They are pretty much the "I wanna smoke pot and go out whoring" branch of the GOP for all intents and purposes...
The sad part is that the GOP at large is so off the reservation, that they started to make the loons of the Libertarian party look "reasonable" in comparison.
They sound pretty haggard to me.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
A libertarian is a Republican who wants to get high and get laid. When I was a very young man their philosophy sounded good until I learned more about the real world. Now I think Republicans are more sane than L's (even republicans don't want to talk about abolishing medicaid because of old people)
Hey my favorite type and Jay Leno's too. http://www.pacwind.net/#sea
"When it stops, you can't store it" Bwhahaha, hee Beck, STFU about things you don't know! You silly twat!
Props to the one that made the stills! That's Beck at his "best" :D
Bite my shiny metal ass.
http://www.startalkradio.net/
i hope whoever took the cork outta this gasbag's ignorant arse, causing him to blow around the room like an outta control balloon, is enjoying the show
doesn't allow Beck to consider a multi-faceted solution to the energy issue. That is, a mix of alternative energy sources (wind, solar, geo-thermal, tidal), the fine-tuning of existing energy sources and a long-term reduction in the use of those sources -- i.e., carbon dioxide spewing -- that contribute to global warming. A 50 or 100 year plan would be feasible and implementable and would also allow for the teeming unwashed -- fuck the failed elites in all G-20 countries -- to come up with a new economic model that includes factors like health, the environment and even a metric for compassion/community. Needless to say, the reich-wing free marketers at the U. of Chicago (the infantile Friedman) and their acolytes in Congress and on Wall Street will resist all such moves. I say "Let them eat cake!".
"Secular humanism -- a fearless, realistic world view replete with doubt and scepticism that attempts to attain an unachievable state of equilibrium between and among the human qualities of reason, intuition, imagination, memory, ethics and common sense.
Are we turning into the Glen Beck website? Just wondering.
I have to put on my capri pants and get myself off to work. See ya later.
far left loon >.<
This is about crooks and liars, no?
Geothermal. It's clean, constant, and pretty much limitless. It also happens to be virtually untapped.
Geothermal is an overlooked solution. You don't need to drill miles down into the earth for it to work. Some people have geothermal heat pumps in their backyard, 30-50? feet under ground. This could and should be part of a new energy strategy. 70% reduction in the use of Air Conditioning? That would be GREAT in Texas!
green industry anyway Glen. Better get your script writers with it.
getting a nuclear plant built is a long/large project. WallStreet investors are NOT very interested in nuclear energy plants, said the US-based Institute of Energy an Enviromental Research. WallStreet likes the potential SUBsidizes but even that's NOT enough. to WallStreet there is asymmetry of RISK. they will want the government to take more/possibly almost all RISK. they also don't like the capital costs, construction delays and the nuclear waste uncertainties. at this point it would be difficult at best to TRUST wallstreet
and/or the government with nulear power plants.
professional "traders".
Traders don't give a squat about long term anything.
Don Quichot hates windmills. It's true!
Bite my shiny metal ass.
http://www.startalkradio.net/
...
The thing is that wind energy is pretty much another form of solar energy: The sun warms the earth, differential in temperature generates differential in pressure, and that makes the molecules in our atmosphere "tingle" and thus move around. Put enough of those molecules moving, and voila you gots yourself a wind current.
Solar energy at its core is nuclear energy. Now, it is not the same nuclear reaction as the one we produce on earth. The sun fuses atoms: Fusion, where as on earth we can only manage the splitting of atoms: fission.
The thing is, that this moron... faced with a dossier full of this info, was barely able to parse a few lines, and I assume all he was able to read was: wind.... blah, blah.... nuclear, blah, blah...
And bingo. Now you have a complete moron thinking he is some kind of expert in nuclear physics.
Seriously, how could have this country... after putting a person on the moon, devolve down to this idiot Beck's level?
Marketing and brainwashing
Lawrence Livermore Labs in California are about to shine 192 lasers on a pellet of frozen Hydrogen to try and instigate a fusion reaction. They were hoping to do this within 2 years, and commercialize it in 10 years.
I know that scientists have been saying Fusion is always 50 years away, but this sounds real promising.
Not even AA can help in that case.
A double-A is just what this moron needs to be shown, as he's obviously never heard of a f&#*ing battery.
See, we humans use those to store energy.
Many conservative Republicans fight against any effort to conserve energy because they think it's the work of the Devil...
Personally, I am glad Beck is doing what he is doing, because the further to the right these wingnuts go, the longer they will be out of power. Even moderate Republicans see this guy as a total moron...
But right wingers love stupid people- why else would they parade around Joe the Plummer as if he were an elightened seer?
W... windmills make me.... *sniff* they make me cry...
a-BLUH-HUH-HUH-HUH, A-BLU-HU-HU-HU...
glenn beck is making a farting sound, with his hand cupped over his armpit!
neiwert, the guy TOLD YOU he's a friggin' rodeo clown.
why do you KEEP TAKING THE BAIT?
don't we have important $#!+ to cover, neiwert? why don't you try SHOOTING AT MOVING TARGETS.
all week, every week, it's neiwert and his unhealthy obsession with glenn beck.
Actually you do not have to read c&l. No one gives a shit if you do! Piss off!
Bite my shiny metal ass.
http://www.startalkradio.net/
i am glad C&L watches so i don't have to. it's informative to see where/ what some demographics are getting their info. i mean enTertainment.
So am i, if had to watch faux i would steal a tank and rampage a small city!
;)
Bite my shiny metal ass.
http://www.startalkradio.net/
Me too, I tune in to C&L because I do not have cable TV (actually I refuse to so far) and want to see what wingnuts are talking about. If I want hard news, there's BBC, NPR, and Slashdot for technology.
sorry, mrs. neiwert, i'll try to be a gentleman.
http://www.geocities.com/televisioncity/8889/...
you are having trouble understanding?
Glenn Beck is both, so why are you so "surprised" he is being discussed here?
i'm just givin' neiwert a little $#!+ for his infatuation with glenn beck, and for his refusal to grow a pair and do some serious investigative journalism.
Grow a pair? That's easy for you to say you no one! Who are you?
Bite my shiny metal ass.
http://www.startalkradio.net/
you answered your own question, you nitwit. i'm a NO ONE.
i'm just some random, pissed off american patriot dude who thinks neiwert is wasting way too much time on minnows, when sharks patrol these waters.
"who thinks neiwert is wasting way too much time on minnows"
Go be pissed off some more bucko! I'm gonna waist your time some more! Unlike Neiwert i do not give a crap.
A two finger salute buddy!
Bite my shiny metal ass.
http://www.startalkradio.net/
cool. two fingers. peace.
two fingers thrust up, back of the hand facing the target, is a total insult, like the middle finger here.
Also, Bullfrog, it is very important to keep showing these assholes for what they are. If they're ignored, they just get stronger.
me-oww!
Yeah, that's me. I just waste my time.
Twit.
is Faux's new rising star. He's probably getting a stipend from Limblob to insure that El Drugbo isn't the dumbest right wing bobblehead. Ignoring this shithead would be a mistake like the one the progressives made when fatboy first emerged nationally. He needs to have his juvenile, ignorant bullshit called out immediately. David Neiwert deserves a medal for having to sit through this idiot's nonsense.
I agree. The guy has a lot of viewers. I have been seeing people wearing 9-12 t-shirts here lately, he's definitely not insignificant and he needs to be exposed daily.
I thought that we already addressed this issue like 9 or 10 times already. Yawn.
I want Glenn Beck to come over here and read what David Neiwert wrote (or copy and pasted). I want to watch Beck's head explode. Not that would be enough energy to... ah, to.... well to do nothing. There is no energy in Beck's head. It would still be fun to watch. Do you think that Joe Sixpack and Betty Winebox would like to watch?
beck probably doesn't even know or care who david neiwert is.
beck also probably makes about ten to fifteen times as much money as david neiwert.
just for being a rodeo clown, who specializes in distracting otherwise talented liberal writers.
There are smaller wind turbines that are able to change their direction with the wind. They basically just use a tail. Some of them even have specially formed blades that allows the wind mill to turn.
but even the big f*ck off windmills orient themselves towards the wind :-)
Attention!! Batteries! Power cells!
Please...don't spread the ignorance. That's why Glen Beck has a job!!
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
I think that is, pumping water up into a giant water tank, to give the water potential energy, and then converting that potential energy into kinetic energy via gravity. The water drains out, runs a motor, goes into another lower reservoir, ready to be pumped back up again later when there's more wind energy. Is this characterization accurate?
more deception crap from beck to connect/correlate to liberal linguistic bashing. this has a connection to the "tree hugger" enviromentalists haters. it's also a connection to include a certain demographic against global warming,pollution and off-shore drilling. beck has to keep those people happy with some idiotic hate/negative material.
I know Beck's star seems to be rising, and that he should be called out on his ignorant rants, but I can't help get the feeling that discussing him here in C&L so often is much like feeding the common internet troll.
Pfft, you don't know shit about the intertubes obviously!
Bite my shiny metal ass.
http://www.startalkradio.net/
I surprisingly have a couple of good friends who are Repugs. They sometimes have quoted nonsense that comes out of the likes of Rush Limpball's ass and Insannity's ass.
Fortunately, they have yet to spew nonsense coming from Beck's ass, but when they do, it's good to know what that crap is so you can stamp the smell out quickly.
was babbling about this on the radio the other as well. Talking about turning on all of his lights and appliances during Earth Hour. Actually, he quoted some guy saying that Earth Hour actually increased energy usage because of the "Surge" of turning all the lights back on. It was really childish.
I think there IS a surge when you turn a light on, but it depends on whether that light is incandescent or CFL.
However, it is on the order of micro or milliseconds, and it certainly is not enough to make up for an hour of having the lights turned off.
Anti-intellectualists.
Guess I'll go read a little Natalie Angier.
This is about Beck turning on the Kleig lights to show how he could waste electricity. I told you about this guy Spencer Hughes on Fox Talk Radio (Sirius). One day he is going on about how the hotel he stayed at had a note in the bathroom to not use the towels unless you needed them so that the hotel did not have to waste water and fuel and whatever else they waste when they have to wash and dry and disinfect and deodorize and fold and deliver towels for no reason. So good ole Spencer went on and on for a long time about how he took every towel and hand towel and wash cloth and threw them on the floor and walked on them and made them as dirty as he could. Nobody was going to tell him what to to. How do these people think the way that they do? It is truly fucked up. and now here is Glenn Beck doing essentially the same thing. Is there any doubt that these people are different than you and me?
and there's not doubt at all that these people are different from us. As I commented above, Limbaugh was going on about wasting as much energy as he could during Earth Hour the other day too. They think that this stuff is funny, and it isn't. Most of the changes that need to be made will have a positive impact on this planet regardless of whether they think Global Warming is real, or whether they think we caused it. What do they have against reducing energy consumption? It's a win win situation.
Somebody commented on here a while back that Glenn Beck's ass smells like the hand of corporate America, or something to that effect. Funny and true.
The bottom line is that people like Hughes don't give a damn about anything that doesn't affect them personally. Think health care...if they personally have no problem with their coverage or have no serious illnesses affecting them or their family, then there's no reason to change the system. "I'm fine, and screw everyone else" is their message.
Plus...if the dumbass wants to pay what will surely be higher hotel prices in the long run due to his actions, that's fine with me.
Talk about Anti-Social Behavior. What the **** is wrong with these people? I know a lot of conservatives believe in procreation and stuff. Don't they care the least about their children?
But global warming is going to start affecting us AND them in our lifetime.
Is this what we are devolving to? God help us.
Please Gordon...men have enuf issues without being shackled with this gasbag.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
the reason why funds for the care and protection of the handicapped is important.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
Lobotomy!
Bite my shiny metal ass.
http://www.startalkradio.net/
who is mischievous and does and says things that he knows will get him into trouble, while at the same time getting attention from the other kids, and then laughs at the adults when they try to discipline him.
I was thinking that too. He's kinda like dubya in that regard.
We need to have solar panels on every single roof in the country.
We need to develop a few new methods of storage... and more innovative uses of current ones..
Such as..
During wind periods excess current should go into making Hydrogen and so forth... That water idea is good.. as I am sure many different ways to do this..
Bleck ...what a maroon
You have all the right answers. I've been saying this fo 20 years. Every single house and building should have solar panels on it, we would be off the Saudi and other undesirables tits in less than a year.
$10k - $20k per house.
Good luck with that.
$10k - $20k per house.
Which eventually pays for itself.
...but there are real issues with wind's peak-only production. http://theenergycollective.com
Exactly.
This post says that Beck is wrong, but admits:
1. Wind power is intermittent and unreliable
2. It will have to be supplemented with base power
3. The source of base power will have to be something like hydroelectric or coal (or nuclear)
WTF? he did graduate high school right?
This guy makes Marshall Applewhite (a.k.a. Doh) look like Mr. Rogers.
This guy has a brain the size of a friggin pea .
Insanity , it is what it is , there is no understanding it .
... how did this utter lunatic get HIS OWN f*&^#%$@! cable television show? He's absolutely bonkers. The daily histrionics, the leering grin, the bug eyes, the crocodile tears, the moronic pronouncements devoid of any intellectual or empirical content (we're Nazis today! No, we're fascists! No, we're socialists! No, we're commies!).
What are his credentials? Where did he pay his dues? Does he have a degree? I understand he has an alcoholic past, which can definitely continue to inform the present ...
I guess being a wild-eyed, reality-challenged, factually bereft reich-wing zealot will get you a CNN show.
He's nuts. He needs to be in a straitjacket and given some intensive therapy -- drug, electroshock, whatever. And he needs to come off the air.
Jesus ...
He stays on the air with the corporate lobby dollars. You know, the trickle down effect of corporate taxpayer bailouts.
The best and brightest can't dazzle us with intellect, so the next best ploy is to baffle us with bull!
The Rapebublican party has already had its head severed from it's ass, so they start looking for their elbows to bully! Mr. Jesus of Beck will gladly carry the cross as long as he gets paid by the corporates! Did his healthcare pay for the lobotomy? Or are they still trying to remove his head from his elbow?
Hey, we're dealing with Rapebulicans, they don't know their asses from their elbows! Alzhiemers or lobotomies?
Next, the colon check of the Democratic party...
I love how right-wingers are proud of the fact that they waste energy and seem to take joy in raping the environment.
Even if global warming wasn't happening (which it is), how could anyone take pride in being a wasteful asshat?
We could power the world for centuries....
Lets see, what exactly is his background and credentials for energy?
Oh yeah, he doesn't have any. He only knows what he reads in the NY Post.
Glenn 'magic underwear' Beck has about as much business talking about energy, as Bernie Madoff & AIG derivative experts have talking about business ethics...
Funny thing is, the idiots that watch him, don't realize that him & Limbo have the money to be idiots...turning on all their lights in all of their houses, while the uneducated poor white trash & soul-less con-servative elite wannabes that watch that propaganda network can't afford to...
It shouldn't be seen as a 'protest' against earth hour like the right wingnuttery is pimping it as....it should be seen as I'm a con-servative a-hole who is ultra wealthy (because viewers like you buy my BS and the scaife's of the world are my pimp) and I'm proving how rich I am...because I can waste, because I can afford to...
If it helps, think of it this way...
Preface - Limbo & Beck = wealthy a-holes who profit off of right wingnut stupidity (its big business created by big business)
These are types of jackasses that continue to run the waterfall entrances to their homes while there is a water shortage in the area they inhabit...
We don't inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children - Native American proverb
If being cold means there's no such thing as global warming, does being full mean there's no such thing as world hunger?
not only that! .... When the big ball of light in the sky goes away at night ... it may NEVER COME BACK!!!!
I'm Boycotting NewsCorp! Heres what not to buy: http://www.cjr.org/resources/index.php?c=news...
"How come dem smartass "Liebruls" always fix things"?
So conservaturds can't breed.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
If anybody knows about wind, it's this windbag!
Just to point out that wind power does obviously need a back up, as it is intermittent and variable. However that can't be nuclear power (and probably not coal either) as their response times and ramp rates are far too slow to react to changes in wind output. Coal plants typically take >4 hours to switch on (often they run overnight even when demand is low, and it is unprofitable to do so, as they can't switch off and switch back on in time for the next day's peak demand). Nuclear takes even longer to respond (and it's detrimental to the plant to fluctuate output frequently), and also, given it's massive capital investment, and low fuel costs, they pretty much always run flat out.
Backup generation either has to be supplied by storage (Pumped storage, possily batteries/compressed air in the future), although they're are limited geographically suitable sites for pumped storage or compressed air storage, but more usually and probably by gas, either CCGTs or possibly OCGTs.
CCGT= Combined Cycle Gas Turbine (efficient natural gas plant)
OCGT= ???
OCGT - Open Cycle Gas Turbine
Basically a CCGT is an OCGT with an additional stage where it generates power from the waste heat, by means of a steam turbine. CCGTs are slower to respond than an OCGT (which are close to instant), but much more efficient (57% or so, compared to an OCGT's ~35-40%). So it's a trade off between response time for operating cost.
What is a 'wind turban'? As a Brit, I say tur-BYE-n. Borelli's pronunciation of the word brought to mind 100ft tall Middle Eastern men, generating electricity by way of wind-driven rotating headscarves. Gave me a chuckle.
Not many people on this side of the Atlantic would criticize him for that.
Now if he said "nucular"....
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
Just ignore Beck because his IQ level is lower than Bush and many other Republicans combined. He cannot challenge a high school student from Ailabama to a debate competition!.
I have no knowledge of the IQ level of either of these gentlemen however, I doubt if eithe of themwould have made the mistake of refering to the Austrian language as our new Teleprompter in chief did.
As far as debate is concerned, you all seem too interested in making personal attacks than is actually discusson the issues. You all sound like a bunch of grade school kids. BTW, you have now insulted the intelligance of the entire sate of Alabama and you dare call Beck and Bush morons!!!
While quite a few of the people beck has on his show are serious but Beck is a moron.
I am a little confused.
I have heard and read a lot about windpower from Pickens and other sources. I have been studying because I firmly believe that we need to be good stewards of our environment but I am not a beleiver in AGW/Climate Change disasters.
I need some questions answered before I can make up my mind.
1. What is the environmental impact of all of the pumped storage facilites we will need to build, considering that the prime spots for wind farms are in the arid west?
2. What is the impact of making all of the steel, concrete etc... that you need to build the towers and turbines? (and the roads, power lines, construction debris, copper wire etc...)
3. What is the impact of all the construction in sensitive arid areas?
4. How many do you need to build? It is my understanding that you can only capture 59% of the available power per trubine. What about spares for when the towers break or need maintenance. How much land wil this disturb
5. I also understand that the turbine blades becoume fouled with dead insects, birds, bats etc... and need to be cleaned periodically. I saw a video on the science channel that showed an automatic washer. So, were does the water come from to wash the blades?
6. Why create another centralized power generation system? Why not put a wind turbine on every building in the country a generate the power where you use it, maybe in conjunction with PV?
7. Why even make the wind farms? Wind generated energy is only economical when it is massively subsidised. Conservation, Higher efficiencies, Natural Gas and Nuclear have more bang for the buck.
8.The big question is, Where is the Environmental Impact Study??? We can't disturb a desert tortoise or a meadow mouse in our hungry search for power!!!
A lot of what Glenn Beck says is designed to be inflammatory, he is partly an entertainer, just like Maher,Olbermann and Maddow.
Why do the "liberals" always resort to personal attacks when they disagree with someone. I am sure that if a windpower advocate would volunteer to address Glenn's questions you would get a fair hearing on his show.
Can anyone answer my questions? Will anyone bother or are you all worshipping at the altar with Al Gore????
Well, I did not think that any of you clowns would bother to answer my questions - you are too busy trying to besmearch Glenn Beck,
Anyway, I found some answers:
1.You will need 1300+ wind turbines consuming 540 square miles to replace one (1) 700 MW power Plant. Multiply that by the amount of power you expect to generate. I suspect that an area the size of Wyoming will be needed. You guys are so smart, you do the math.
2.No independent scientific study has ever shown that wind power saves a meaningful amount of CO2. In fact, the most independent scientific study done (by the National Academy of Sciences) says the opposite. Their 2007 report concludes that (assuming the most optimistic conditions) the U.S. CO2 savings by 2020 will amount to only 1.8%. Good plan guys, give up Wyoming for 1.8% max!! Plus, CO2 is not dangerous. There is no connection between CO2 and Climate Change!!
3. Capacity factor = actual amount of power produced over time / power that would have been produced if turbine operated at maximum output 100% of the time.
A wind plant is "fueled" by the wind, which blows steadily at times and not at all at other times. Although modern utility-scale wind turbines typically operate 65% to 90% of the time, they often run at less than full capacity. According the AWEA, a capacity factor of 25% to 40% is common, although they may achieve higher capacity factors during windy weeks or months. A conventional power plant does not suffer from this problem.
Therefore, Beck was partially correct. You will need to maintain conventional power plants, nuclear and other, to make up for the times that the wind does not blow or is not blowing at sufficient speed.
So, all you pencil necked geeks (I am trying to act like a liberal as I am on your site however, I have not been properly schooled in derisive language, perhaps one of you would enlighten me as to the proper way of heaping scorn on those that do not agree with you??) better come up with another plan. This one has more holes than a ton of Swiss Cheese.
educate yourself. Windpower is nonsense, The wind blows at the wrong time of the year and is too erratic. Power companies have to back up the wind with a hot coal fire because in 30 minutes the wind can die down and then you would have a blackout.
tons of research and wind power facts right here. all the science in on place. see for yourself.
www.the-green-wind.com
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