Richard Poplawski: Was Pittsburgh shooter driven by right-wing gun paranoia about Obama?
By David Neiwert Saturday Apr 04, 2009 10:00am
Some of the early reports out of Pittsburgh indicate the man who shot three cops today was fearful that the Obama administration was going to "take away his guns."
A man opened fire on officers during a domestic disturbance call Saturday morning, killing three of them, a police official said. Friends said he feared the Obama administration was poised to ban guns.
Three officers were killed, said a police official at the scene who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak to the media. Police spokeswoman Diane Richard would only say that at least five officers were wounded, but wouldn't give any other details.
... One friend, Edward Perkovic, said the gunman feared "the Obama gun ban that's on the way" and "didn't like our rights being infringed upon." Another longtime friend, Aaron Vire, said he feared that President Obama was going to take away his rights, though he said he "wasn't violently against Obama."
Perkovic, a 22-year-old who said he was the gunman's best friend, said he got a call at work from him in which he said, "Eddie, I am going to die today. ... Tell your family I love them and I love you."
He feared an Obama gun grab? Gee, I wonder where he could have heard that.
Indeed, a story replete with NRA-style fearmongering about the looming "grab" -- which has been fueling a run on guns at local shops -- ran just three days ago in the Pittsburgh Tribune.
We've been reporting for awhile on the surge in gun sales, and how the paranoia around guns is making the more unstable elements of the right particularly edgy. Inevitably, that edginess is going to break out into actual violence -- as it appears to have done today.
Ironically, this is exactly the kind of incident that law-enforcement intelligence-gathering is supposed to help prevent -- intelligence like the Missouri State Patrol report so hysterically attacked by these same paranoid right-wingers. I tried to explain at the time that these kinds of extremists are in fact a very real danger to people in law enforcement, but all anyone on the right wanted to talk about was Ron Paul bumper stickers. Well, there you go.
My new book is looking more timely all the time. We'll have an announcement about it Monday.
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This sounds anecdotal.
Or should that be anticdotal?
I'm willing to wait for more information, but since he's dead, that's problematical.
to her advice.
The story is a "FOX jumped the shark" story:
To: Eye of Unk
Fox is going into orgasms reporting on this, the same still images being shown over and over.
They're doing worse than that.
FNCs' Kelly Wright "reported" that the weapon used was an "AK-47", which, "of course", is a "high-powered", "automatic" weapon.
At that point, I changed the channel.
If I want hyperbole, propaganda, and misinformation, I can get my fill from MSNBC and CNN. I don't need it from FNC, as well.
oh, well...
It is plausible that most of the recent killing sprees are fueled by wingnut rhetoric. Guns. immigrants, liberal churches, lots of excuses for insane haters to "shrink the majority".
If the reports are true, how does going out and killing cops and getting yourself killed going to restore your rights? There has to be more than right wing madness behind this guys insane rational.
"but since he's dead,"
Well I guess it wasn't a total loss.
Perhaps it's time for the FCC to make people in the media responsible for their irresponsible, incendiary rhetoric.
I'm not saying limit free speech, but if Gooper media pimps like the Faux lineup, or the NRA whip up armed unbalanced types, survivors should be able to sue if it's proven the rhetorical false reality influenced the perp.
What kind of nation would we be if we limited a citizen's right to urge his neighbors to shoot the nearest New World Order enforcement officer?*
* For those who don't know me, that's a snarky comment.
Wasn't Snarky the name of the King of Dolphins who took over the town of Springfield?
I don't clearly remember that episode.
I'm sorry but a lot of the "whipping up" about gun bans has come from the left. As far as I'm concerned banning anything should be an absolute last resort, not an easy answer. What we really need is to re-establish mental health care in this country, right now it's nonexistent unless of course you have the cash.
We're in complete agreement that there are some weapons that the public simply has no business owning regardless of whether they passed a mental health test. If that makes us left, so be it.
I'm not a hunter so I'm in favor banning ALL guns, period. But given that there are a lot of citizens who enjoy hunting, getting automatic weapons and hand guns out of public hands would be an acceptable compromise.
The last time I checked, you don't need an AK47 to go deer hunting!
No you don't need an AK-47 to go hunting, you don't need one to commit an atrocity either. The Brady bill came about because Jim Brady was wounded not with an assault weapon but with a .22 caliber pistol, which wasn't covered under the ban.
The assault rifles you see people buying in droves aren't automatic weapons. In case you missed it a young man stabbed his sister to death and beheaded his other sister in front of a cop last week. He didn't use a gun to do it and the result was no less tragic. Are you in favor of banning steak knives?
Assinine argument. Use some common sense next time and you won't come off as so much like a prick.
to a very serious issue. The point is that if this guy and others like him didn't have such easy access to guns, it may cause them to rethink how they respond to their frustrations.
How many times do we need to see stories like this? A seemingly 'normal' guy; a quiet 'good' neighbor, who had no history of violence? He's angry about something or someone, and decides to carry out a violent act such as this, more often than not killing total strangers in the process? If this same person did not have ready access to guns, maybe, just maybe, he deals with his frustrations and anger in some other fashion with a far different outcome; possibly still some violent act, but far less extensive.
I just do not understand America's fixation on guns? Except for law enforcement and the military, guns simply have no place in a civil society.
You can't regulate stupidity
to an intractable problem. Yes, guns are bad things. But banning ALL of them is just a stupid idea. There are 100s of millions of guns in this country, do you have a proposal for tracking all of them down? Good luck with that. And though I decry their ubiquity, I have not seen a convincing argument that banning even all handguns--if it were possible--would prevent crime. Criminals will get guns, and when only criminals are armed, then what?
The debate over the meaning of the 2nd amendment will probably never be resolved, but given that ambiguity it's more in the spirit of the "American experiment" to fall on the side of restraint in banning them. It's also probably not a coincidence that the countries with the most restrictive gun policies have the least freedom. Look up Hermann Goering's quote about the citizens having no need for guns.
Last, although Midnight's comment is a bit flippant, the fact is knives are f'ing dangerous. Many cops have been killed by knife-wielding assailants before they could defend themselves with their pistols. Studies have shown that even at 35 feet a person with a knife has a good chance of slashing or stabbing trained LE personnel fatally before they can draw and fire. So, steak knives, no, but how about all the bowies, "tactical" knives, Rambo knives, etc, out there--ban them too? You can bet that banning guns would lead to attacks with knives, machetes, etc. Not that they'd be as bad, but the point is, a better solution might be to put equal or greater effort into mitigating the problems that lead to violent attacks in the first place.
And those media people and outlets that have been fanning the flames should be held responsible for their IRresponsible words and actions.
Last time I checked the 2nd Adm. didn't say a damn thing about hunting
I like this idea of making the wingnuts actually fiscally responsible. The Ailes lineup would be put on notice. I blame Glenn Beck the most.
get their daily, no, hourly fill of hate and mistrust from all the right wing paranoia. How is killing people going to restore your gun rights? This is terrible.
According to the reports I have heard, Richard Poplawski was fearful that the police were going to take away his firearms. He felt it was his right to bear arms. One person who knows him stated he was not at all suprised that this happenned. Chalk up another "victory" for the right wing hatemongers! He ambushed the policeman as they answered a domestic disturbance call at his residence in the Stanton Heights section of the city. What a sad day for the City of Pittsburgh and the families of the the three dead police officers and the others injured in this incident. I heard some of the shooting on TV. It sounded as if the neighborhood was a war zone.
that they are going to confiscate his guns, now.
there must be a way this can be pinned on Glen Beck's hate/fear/bullshit and therfore pinned on Glen Beck.
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/4-Shot-a...
What does that have to do with Obama, or rightwingnuts, or a gun phobia?
C'mon dude get with it. Different day, different murders....
This is the latest:
http://kdka.com/local/officers.shot.Stanton.2...
This time, the guy lost his job as well (shock). Going to hear more and more of these stories in upcoming years. Of course every single case will be blamed on rightwing hysterics instead of the real cause---desparation.
Perhaps we should ban jobs...
excellent logic....!
..funny...funny...
Regards,
O'Guillory
...yesterday. It's about the Pittsburgh killings this morning.
wow man really? we're talking about a totally diffent event
god almighty try at least reading
so afraid obama's gonna take away guns that he goes on a random mass murder with his guns. gee, i wonder why someone would want to take them away.
Use 'em before you lose 'em. Lovely.
I wonder if the police will weigh in on citizens owning AK-47s. I'm sure it makes their lives a lot more unpleasant!!!
kind of like,,,,,"smoke em if you got em"
Some posts were speculating that the assailant was killed. He was not. He is alive.
This way we can stop this stuff. Glenn Beck already had one tragic even pinned on him and now that it's three police officers, he can share the blame and the families of these officers need to go after him.
There's free speech and then there's inciting violence. It may be a fine line but there is a line.
"...paranoia around guns is making the more unstable elements of the right particularly edgy."
I've been fearing this for quite some time now and yes, I think Glenn Beck is part of the driving force behind this movement. I recall that after a similar attack in Alabama, that killed 10 people a few weeks ago, he had the audacity to proclaim it was "political correctness" that drove that man to do it! Sorry, Beck, it's YOU and those other supposed "journalists" - Hannity, Limbaugh, O'Reilly, etal, that are appealing to the basest of fears in people by LYING about what the President is trying to do.
Honestly, how is Glenn Beck different from AlQaeda when he goes out of his way to incite people with non-truth propaganda? When he repeats his rhetoric nightly under the guise of "loving his country and trying to save it", with crocodile tears flowing from his eyes, he's actually doing everything he can to run this nation into the ground!
Do we really want to live in a country run by gun-toting wingnuts, which is what he seems to be proposing? We should try to get the FCC to look into whether he and his ilk are actually trying to incite a riot against the government, while hiding behind Freedom of Speech, and trying to lead a "rebellion" to ruin America!
I'm with metroplexual. Hang these shootings around the necks of the fomenters. If we can see Ruandan radio folks get convicted on genocide charges, why not our very own cuddly Amurkin sleazeballs. OK, freedom of speech...but this is shouting 'Fire!' in the crowded theater. Even a civil suit could send the proper message: remember the civil rights victim who got awarded the KKK's headquarters etc, some years back?
Of course, as we know from an unfortunate Supreme Court ruling (Buckley v. ?), money is political speech and the NRA does shout pretty loudly, doesn't it? Me, I'd march on NRA HQ any day, but a pitchfork doesn't stop high velocity cop-killing bullets too effectively, does it?
Well said
the folks who commit these insane crimes are themselves insane - or at the very least suffering from severe emotional imbalances. Then they lose their job, or lose all their money or their house, or get cheated on by a spouse, AND then they watch TV and see myriad shows crammed with gun violence, revenge and gore, hear crap from wingnuts and see hours and hours of coverage about some other fool who shot up people in some other place (say, Binghamton and now Pittsburgh) and they snap.
They believe 'this is the answer to all of my problems' - 'I'll show them, I'll be respected' - whatever weird thoughts get triggered.
I'd be willing to bet there will be a rash of these kinds of episodes now, because so many people are destitute - lost jobs, homes and hope. They see only one way out - because they are unstable.
To me, what it really says is we need to fix the health care problem soonest - so these folks can get the mental health care they need.
...you are most correct...not only do we need to "fix" our mental health system....but we need to fix our "parenting system"....all over this planet we birth some of the most wonderful creatures in the universe..! We copulate to the tune of billions of babies a decade, and yet when they drop from the womb, in many (most) cases all across the planet we beat, scream and demean them into compliant drones who are so emotionally damaged that we can never help them totally recover, nor can we as a society reap the true potential of that poor soul because the parents were taught to berate and belittle so that we "break" the child....so they can then be "taught".
The day we look into the eyes of every child and measure it's true potential, and our ability (efforts) to exploit that potential in a healthy, loving manner.....well, those numbers of folks who are beserk will stay steady...but the nurtured beserkers will grow...
Regards,
O'Guillory
immediately after we fix the health care system we need to fix the education system.
I have railed for decades about the need to ensure we include health education, sex education, basic psychology and mental health information and parenting education in secondary schools (I was a health & phys ed. teacher in one of my former lives).
I have to hold my tongue when I see parents mistreating their children in public; though, there have been occasions in which I've spoken up and asked them to stop. (Guess I'm lucky none of them had guns!).
Our society has been degraded to this point because the folks who run it (the corps, the gov't, the elites - all of these) view citizens as merely parts of their money making machine - and therefore consider full funding for excellent education in all parts of the country as a waste of Their Resources. Now they've created this economic disaster, which will just make any of these improvements impossible for the near term - just the way they want it. Despicable.
have a right to own firearms. If society is mentally unbalanced then no one should be shocked when its lethally armed members murder innocent people on a regular basis.
Quiet, never said much, never bothered da neighbors. Took his garbage out. Never came out of the house much. A model neighbor.
According to what I've seen so far about this nutjob from Pittsburgh, his neighbors and associates aren't surprised one bit that he would have taken this course of action.
is a tinderbox overflowing with potentially explosive "personalities".
We need to slam on the breaks and SLOW DOWN.
Wouldn't everybody and everything go flying off into space?
Wouldn't everybody and everything go flying off into space?
Looks like it creates a parallel universe also.
I have long been trying to get the powers in my employment(car dealer network)to get away from this open all hours type chit. As a society,,, we should all slow down a little bit and reach out to one another. We all have friends and family that we need to keep in touch with. It shouldn't be go to church(if you are a believer) for an hour and back to the grind.
People are working far too many hours for too little pay. No time to spend with the offspring. The TV is the electronic babysitter,,, soon to be replaced by the internet.
been radical? How is that new?
the reichwingnuttia is the very reason
why guns SHOULD be banned in America.
the people who need more than one gun
or have dozens, are the very people who
should not have guns. short-tempered
miscreant and moronic. they can't debate,
so they end their arguments/disagreements
with shooting the other party/parties.
that that the most angriest, unstable, short-tempered, stupidest people have easy legal access to firearms? Rights are useless if innocent people keep getting killed.
Perhaps this person would have been detected if law enforcement had not spent all their time spying on peace groups and citizens using legal means to effect change. Perhaps this person would have been detected if cops had been doing real police work instead of sitting on their ass at a DUI check point, writing chicken-shit, low grade traffic infractions(Bill Richardson,NM.)Perhaps instead of tasering someone who is not responding to their orders fast enough to suit them, or shooting a family's pet because it did it's job and barked at the cowards invading their homes. Or perhaps instead of hunting down those criminal pot smokers and playing "under-cover narc", they could solve crimes that have real victims. Perhaps instead of calling out the swat team for every damn problem that comes along or driving more expensive vehicles than 80% of the citizens or busy buying votes at election time(D White,NM.)My parents told me to go find a policeman if you need help, that is the last thing I would tell them today. It's long past time for police officers to stand by the oath they took to protect citizens and the constitution or you are nothing but a thug, police don't fair so well when they don't out-number the citizens, 10 cops kill one guy, one pissed off citizen kills 3 or 4 at a time, not good odds, small wonder they are trigger happy and scared of every loud noise or scruffy person they see. To you "bully cops" who are attempting build your "rep" on petty drug cases and other victim-less crimes, get with it or find another line of work(D white,NM)Family murdered by a gang of criminals? don't worry, they all had proof of insurance cards with them and their seatbelts clicked
shut, what the fuck has happened to this country?CEO,citizens,eyes,open
wondering. do you have any real solutions
for this problem besides just bitching?
your anger and shortsightedness is not helpful.
just asking.
constantly harping on "rightwing nuts" and all things Republican Dadams? Is that not just bitching? All Republicans can't be painted with that evil brush, anymore than all things Dem can't be painted with the Nancy Pelosi brush. This man was obviously mentally unstable. Making it political is nothing more than acting like a Republican. There are many mentally unstable people. Find it very hard to believe that their political affiliation is what motivates them. Obviously, he was very upset at losing his job. And all these reports say what his acquaintances say. That is here-say and nothing more.
no the irrational gun confiscation by obama to job loss ratio is disproportionate and its clear why he did this
you lose concerned canuck
Thank whomever for your omniscience. I am so glad you made it clear to me the motive is clear.
Just saw the article on Yahoos and became infuriated at the kind of journalism being pushed:
"PITTSBURGH – A man opened fire on officers during a domestic disturbance call Saturday morning, killing three of them, a police official said. Friends said he had been upset recently about losing his job and that he feared the Obama administration was poised to ban guns.
"Three officers were killed, said a police official at the scene who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak to the media. Police spokeswoman Diane Richard would only say that at least five officers were wounded, but wouldn't give any other details."
(emphasis added)
Who is it that's giving out the Obama line -are they quoting the anonymous police official as saying "friends said". Or some other Fox plant??
It definately smells like just more of the same "anal poison" leaked from the sorry worn out asses of disgruntled Republicans
automatic guns have been in the news as of late regarding the fact that 90% of the weapons/guns in mexico are bought in the united states. these are the same weapons being used to kill mexican police.
these same weapons are being used to shoot at border guards. of course there's opposition to this. the pro gun people are suggesting the government wants to take their guns.
Since "automatic" weapons are fairly well controlled by the BATFE, I question thtat the same guns are being discussed. The Federales have the serial numbers, do they match. Bringing an easily attainable semi-uto weapon across to Mexico to support a cartel, is sort of like bringing a knife to a gun fight. We need facts, not enuendo (sp)
Well clearly these are the kind of nuts that need more guns.... sigh....
The MSM keeps telling me "..they're looking for a motive." Um, he had issues and he had a gun! There: MOTIVE!
Exactly what this guy was afraid of and how he dealt with it is the exact reason his prophecy will come true. I know, its not the guns, its the people and the bullets and the issues and the right-wing talking points and its in the Constitution...Show me where, in the Constitution, does it say "its OK to shoot cops"?
... in a remote part of the North American land mass, call their new home "Jesusland" and be done with them?
desire to sell books? That is the way the final paragraph, which adds nothing to the story, makes it appear.
by the news of the latest shootins. Just a guess.
drove some to rant about the need for guns on campus, or thwe possible involvement of Muslimj motivations before any facts came out. Here the poster plugs his past work and future publication.
Dave Neiwart, I do love and appreciate your work... but while the bodies of those police officers are still warm, and the real reason for why they were shot is still unknown - hawking your book is kinda lame at best.
He made one statement at the end of his post about his book coming out. WTF is wrong with you guys?
Some here are reacting just like a wingnut who salivates when he thinks a mass murderer may be from the middle east. A shooter involved in a domestic violence case is used by a poster as an opportunity to hawk his book and is criticized for that. And to you, the critics have something wrong with THEM?
Read the post again. The entire last three graphs are self promotion and back patting.
Excuse, but who the f--k are you people to question my motives here, exactly?
I've been laboring in obscurity for many years, trying to educate the public about these issues by reporting on them. This isn't promotion, you jerks -- this is information-sharing. I don't spend all this time writing this stuff to get rich (because I haven't yet and won't), I do it to make sure the public has the information available.
I believe I said I loved and appreciated your work. I didn't call you a jerk, in any way.
The only thing I'm saying is that there is a time and a place to hype your own product and while the bodies of the dead are still warm is not one of those times. And if it isn't promotion, why does your link for your book go to Amazon?
Keep up the good writing.
If it wasn't for YOU PEOPLE, you wouldn't have a job .
Nice language for a pro.
just make sure your info is correct.
And if you can't take the heat, well .. you know
he's talking to you. I don't think he needs condescending 'helpful hints' from the likes of you...
How some people like to spout off while being.....
Kinda Clueless.
and D. Neiwert's book In GOD's Country, I do not see it as self promotion to sell books. My interpretation is that it was a reminder to connect the dots between specific rhetoric from right wing sources and current gun crimes.
Some of these responses seem to be nothing more than antagonism for antagonism's sake. I suppose anyone can have a day when they're just spoiling for a fight.
+1
Lot of that here.
....you know....not all those people buying up arms & ammo are fringe folks....it doesn't take a crazy person to see what can happen when society breaks down.....detroit, los angeles,...oakland....rodney king.....katrina....so when the moderate folk see the fringe folk buying everything up...it may not be completely related to Obama paranoia......I'm not a crazy...but I'm prepared....
There is a huge cultural shift getting ready to move into warp speed....we just want to be prepared until we see it's direction...
And, sadly...some of the emotionally disturbed amongst us are not going to tolerate that cultural shift very well....so you best be armed and ready to defend yourself.
Regards,
O'Guillory
3 police officers dead because of propaganda fueled by the reich wing on cable news and hate radio that Obama's going to take some gun nut's gun away (precisely the person who should have their gun taken away - btw)
As a result 3 law enforcement officers who's duty it would be to protect Americans are dead thanks to conservative unfounded rage. Brought to you by the "law and order" and "security" party. Feel safer yet?
people of one race for a crime committed by a person of the same race.
There was no evidence other than the slant taken by the AP writer on which this post is based that politics had anything to do with the incidsent.
you must have spent a lot of time over at Redstate to get that out of my post.
I'll bet you think reich wing hate had nothing to with Eric Rudolph and Tim McVeigh eiter.
before you reveal your ignorance. And please don't start gambling unless you have a lot of money to lose and don't mind doing so. You'd lose the first one you made with me.
This guy called his friend and said he was going to die today. He wanted to be a martyr.
He wanted martyrdom yet surrendered? Can you wait until facts are in before jumping to conclusions. The post may turn out to be accurate. It may not. Until the facts are in it looks like a book promotion to me.
Old friend of mine decided to kill himself the way the monks in Vietnam did it. When his wife left for work, he doused himself in something flammable and lit a match.
Apparently, though, he had second thoughts about it. When his wife got home she found him dead in the tub with the water running.
THe trial should be a real Who's Who of wingnuts testifying as character witnesses on his behalf. Rush, Sean, Ann, Billo, and the whole asylum will be in the Allegheny County Court of Common Pleas.
I forgot to mention Pittsburgh's own Rush Wannabe, Jim Quinn. He'll probably be the lead character witness and testify to the reality of the gun confiscation threat.
Your right about jumping to conclusions. But the guy murdered three cops. Do you think the police would have been in the right frame of mind to accept a surrender from this piece of crap? More than likely he was wounded, slipped into unconciousness and then was apprehended.
The cops say he was wearing a bulletproof vest. Seems to me, if these reports are true, that the guy didn't simply get into a domestic squabble.
Just as yesterday there were posters blaming Lou Dobbs for Binghampton before they learned the shooter was an immigrant.
From what I have read the guy is both smart and a drop out, a patriotic Marine and a dishonorable discharge, his momma called the cops but he was lying in ambush.
He was for McCain and an internet radio pundit....on and on. When you hear the news and comment on it based on and filtered by your preconceived ideology you are often wrong.
perceive, think and speak based upon their 'preconceived' biases (ideology)????
Most folks are barely aware that they are conscious, let alone able to determine whether they're applying some deep-seated, albeit questionable, philosophy to their thinking and actions. Except you, of course.
You aren't getting it. There is a right wing media hate frenzy going on--from Fox pundits, wingnut blogs, and certain elected officials, such as Bachmann mentioning "revolution, etc."
Check out Charles M. Blow's op-ed on the NYT- "Pitchforks and Pistols"
"The right's distortions of the facts are not all harmless talk. For some, their disaffection has hardened into something dark and dangerous..."
The Unitarian church murders in Tennessee were committed by someone who listened to as well as read wingnut hate propaganda. The gunman publicly professed his hatred of liberals. Are you going to suggest that there was no connection?
He murdered innocent people while wearing a bullet proof vest. And, according to the Allspinzone.com, the gunman was also a former unsuccessful right wing internet talk show host, before he was laid off from his job at a glass factory.
The current climate of epic job losses, financial instability, combined with mental illness, racism, wingnut paranoia and lies spread by hate radio/teevee all add up to a very dangerous cocktail. Many domestic terrorists are created exactly in this manner, and that's why we can't ignore it as being an anomaly.
And lay off the "book promotion," crap. Neiwert is an excellent writer who does his homework.
Suicide-by-cop is hardly martyrdom. Cowardice is more like it.
I hope they let him watch as they melt them.
Richard Poplawski is alive and being treated for multiple gunshot wounds to the leg at UPMC Presbyterian. He was wearing a bullet resistent vest. HE shot the first two officers responding to the domestic violence call in the head as they stood in the doorway of his house.
I thought that was about muscles, not guns. Sounds like we need serious gun control in this wacky society.
Hey, I know! Let's pass a law making it illegal for members of the NRA from owning guns. That would get guns out of the cold, dead hands of our country's craziest assholes!
RE:"Hey, I know! Let's pass a law making it illegal for members of the NRA from owning guns. That would get guns out of the cold, dead hands of our country's craziest assholes!"
Have you seen the killings and destruction that cars can do? Maybe we should ban these too!
Here's an interview with the friend of the shooter:
http://www.wpxi.com/video/19094713/index.html
I'm sure the Pittsburgh Police would like to thank Fox "news", Glen Beck, Gordon Liddy, Michael Savage, Michele Malkin and the rest of the miscreants for their contribution to this paranoid state of mind among the gullible.
I think it would be smart for someone to watch the shooter's friend who was in that interview. "Zionist control of the government?"
One of his friend's has a myspace page and part of it reads: I only am interested in the people i know that are geniuses in their own right. I'm sure their advice holds more merit. The Matt Spahr's, Jason Orr's and Richard Poplawski's of this world. Take it or leave it.
Scary shit!
The fellow in the interview seemed to share similar opinions to Poplawski himself, down to apparently endorsing the notion (though perhaps unintentionally, as he may have meant to convey that Poplawski himself thought) that the policemen that showed up to Poplawski's house were only there to take his guns away, as opposed to merely responding to a domestic disturbance. (And if he hadn't responded by ambushing the policemen, Poplawski would probably not have lost his guns or his freedom as a result of the police showing up, unless probable cause was established in the phone call for the police to search the home for illegal weapons.) It's unnerving to say the least, and the comment about Zionism is especially telling. These guys are very afraid, fearful specifically of law enforcement, among other agents and agencies of the state. The more desperate, angry, and confused they become, the more likely it will be that they'll express their fears and frustrations through violence.
People are welcome to be angry with the way things are going but paranoia simply isn't rational (or healthy), and as long as this decidedly unhinged segment of our population chooses to live in a hate-filled echo chamber they're not going to be especially prone to acting like sensible, civilized people. This is especially true when someone or something begins to stoke their fears. They panic and do something stupid, like going on killing sprees that they don't likely intend to live through. (And it's pretty obvious that Poplawski panicked when he heard the cops were coming.) At least Poplawski's friend acknowledges that he did something very, unjustifiably wrong, but how many others out there genuinely believe that the ends justify the means, or worse yet, that the police themselves deserved what happened to them?
These folks need help. (To any reactionaries reading this, that does not spell 'brainwashing'.) I don't care if these people do believe themselves to be part of a well regulated militia, standing at the ready to defend the nation. Paranoid, temperamental, one-man crusaders and bomb throwers do not a well regulated militia make. People like this don't need firearms, they need friends to bring them back to reality so they don't wind up doing something terrible.
The greatest irony of this incident is that the more often that people like Poplawski 'defend their right to bear arms' like this, the more likely it will be that legislation will be passed limiting or banning firearms, thus making the prophecies of the lunatic fringe quite self-fulfilling.
You mean there has been one in Pittsburgh? In the same week as the ones in North Carolina and Binghamton?
Why can't we just call this ethnic white violence instead of "right-wing" violence. Cuz I sure as hell didn't see black folks up at arms about Regan, Bush Sr. or Bush Jr. but there sure are a heck of a lotta white folks who are willing to, quite literally, take up arms against Obama.
School shooters don't have a profile to white folks but they sure as hell do to everyone else. Now suddenly what amounts to domestic terrorism - shooters on a rampage - they don't have a profile either. As far as I can see with the exception of the beltway shooter we have WHITE and MALE or ASIAN and MALE, but mostly WHITE and MALE.
Anyone see a pattern here? Just saying that if it was black guys shooting up the country the way you supposedly see us do every night on the evening news (doesn't matter where you are, fear-mongering against black news is an American local news staple) then why the hell are WHITE MEN shooting up America and no one goes hey - maybe we need to have a law that targets white men and guns - the way we sure as hell have laws that target black men and guns.
and white males are never profiled as white males. they are 'males'.
i find it funny how they never get called out on this. If this guy had been "driven" to do this because he listened to marilyn manson it would be all over the news.
But just like that other guy who shot up that mall who had o'really's books and hannity's books in house we don't hear about it.....
crime, I knew David would have a post on it. Good work, Mr. Neiwert, I always look forward to reading your posts on these issues. I learn a lot!
And, as I said last night with the Binghamton situation, my thoughts and prayers are also with the Pittsburg victims and their families.
...excellent logic....!
..funny...funny...
Regards,
O'Guillory
Shall die by the gun.
Did you ever notice whenever someone freaks out about "Teh Commies are gonna take my guns away", THAT'S when you start thinking "You know, maybe we should".
You want that Patrick Swayze will kick our ass?
.
What this shows is that we need MORE guns so that innocent law-abiding citizens can defend themselves. If those police responding to the domestic violence had been carrying. . . er, never mind.
Here are some posts from various Gun Forums regarding the shooting. It appears the main topics of discussion appear to be how the foreigners seeking citizenship should've armed themselves against the whacko foreigner that shot them, or its the fault of liberals for not allowing other citizens to be armed to shoot the badguy before he shoots everyone else, and the really inportant part is that the liberals are going to go off the deep end and just use this as a means to take their guns away.
http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?...
http://www.gunco.net/forums/f113/alright-gun-...
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?t=...
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=4...
I have this to say about those innocent victims who the gun nuts say should have armed themselves: 3 heavily armed, highly trained police officers in
California & 3 or 4 more in Pittsburg were killed by a fellow gun nut. Being an armed Law Enforcement officer didn't protect them.
After the last Sarah Palin rally this guy Poplawski didn't have much to live for.
I really thought this heading was completely biased and taking irresponsibility too far to go and blame this incident on Obama. You dont wake up to live your life that way and there were other factors that made this incident happen. I would really wait unitl more details came out from this story before I start blaming anyone but the one whom took lives of innocent cops. This does not justify this incident and makes it okay since it was so-called because of an gun issue. It will interested to see when they do the actual research of this guy's history, social life, family life, love life, etc. Then maybe you can change that title after one day to get fewer hits to your post. Of course linking Obama in a negative vision will make people read the story..I dont think that is fair to blame or even question this with a gun issue.
I've owned or handled everything from a .22 to 'assault rifles.'
Thoughtfull debate can be made both for the positive social relevance of firearms and for their negative impact.
Sadly, both sides 'preach to the choir' or muddy the waters with political agenda.
There are anti gun people who are grossly ignorant and feed solely on sentiment.And most definitely, there are the 'gunshow warriors'who find validation of place and importance through the barrel of a rifle.
Both are an embaressment. The only difference is the gun nuts have the means to go beyond mere stupidity.
And something Rahm Emmanuel said recently was chilling: that they plan to make it impossible for anyone on the "terrorist watch list" to own a gun. That'd be fine if that list weren't so political, i.e. full of names of anti-establishment types, probably mostly from the left.
In other words, there's merit to the argument that the State wants people unempowered and thus easier to control, and that gun ownership presents a counterweight to tyranny. One could even go so far as to argue that these tragic events are an unfortunate price to pay for that counterweight's existence. I don't agree with it, but it's a more subtle argument than "ban them all."
Rather than going for a complete ban, why not focus on keeping guns like assault rifles out of the hands of people based--as much as possible--on non-political criteria. It'd take more work but be more effective.
Here a second ago. While I believe he's within his right to voice his opinion. He's saying things that just aren't true. If it was left up to him and his ilk, we'd be a communist society.
C'mon admit it SA. You want to rule the world. It's either your way or the highway.
So, I suggest you go find another country so you can be your own dicktater.
Now, now, don't take it hard. Not everyone can be a communist.
I suggest you move to Somalia. That way you're right at home with like minded people.
If we all think about this the NRA has been fighting leftwing nuts for years now about keeping their guns so this is nothing new. If you look at the friends myspace account you can tell right away what kind of person this guy is and what his friends are. Its a bunch of hate filled, anti-semitic bullcrap...Dont blame fox news or Glenn Beck for this guy acting like he did, i believe its been a build up for many years. Lets face it the father wasnt around, grew up in the city, most likely from his friends myspace hung out with the wrong crowd of kids that are also haters, got kicked out of Catholic school, got kicked out of boot camp, he just had problems. Most problems like that start from childhood and usually start inside the home. I know we all want to blame republicans for this or democrats for that but sometimes bad kids grow up to be bad adults and maybe just maybe this guy was just a frickin time bomb waiting to explode. The media of course will make this an Obama and gun deal, thats their job but for you people who live for that kind of news is just crazy.
..he had issues and a gun. There:Motive.
Don't over-think this. The guy did what he did because he could and because he was paranoid that people didn't want him to do what he did because he could otherwise they would've taken his gun away from him. When he got the gun, he was probably as normal as you or me or at least as normal as one should be.
We have no reason to believe it was any other reason than that it was his own paranoia of Obama taking away his gun stoked by the right-wing media and the NRA.
And he's not going to be the last.
For the record, I don't remember ever hearing Obama say he wanted to ban guns or limit people's rights to carry them. But so long as that's the kind of fantasy people like Beck are peddling, along with his "they don't surround us, WE surround them, there will be those with loose screws who will believe it and take it to heart.
He has said that he wants to raise costs of ammunition 500% which is rediculous.
Link, please?
..but bullets as well.
Don't sell bullets and guns in the same store. You must buy bullets, a limited number (unless your are a member of a well-regulated militia, which to own a gun is something you have to be, at least that's what the NRA says, or the Constitution says which means that's what the NRA says, right?) of bullets from a well-regulated store and in order to buy more, you have to return the casings with pictures of game shot or the targets shot at the range. Problem solved. Everyone owns a gun (well, if they are a member of a well-regulated militia that is) and fewer people killed as a result of accidents or bad hair days or whatever psychotic break causes one because there's less bullets out there. Oh yeah, find someone with more than his "ration" of bullets? Ten years in jail, period! No deals, no nothing, just to jail! bye-bye!
Oh swell..... so instead of going to a gun store I talk to a friend, who talks to a friend and I buy my bullets the same way that some people buy marijuana.
Doesn't anyone out there in Gun Control Land understand how poorly Prohibition performs? Weren't you all paying attention in the 1970s, 1980s (zero tolerance) and the 1990s?
The US government has sprayed paraquat, set up dictatorships, sent in the CIA, DEA and others, shot down dope smuggling planes, and today the Mexicans are killing one another in border towns.
Eight year old kids can still buy marijuana as easily as they can get an aspirin from the School Nurse.
Do you REALLY think that you're gonna stop a middle aged adult from buying as many bullets as they desire?
Ten years in prison for buying "too many bullets"?
OK, I'm gonna have to really educate some of you folks....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_Court
"The Gun Court system has been put forth by gun ownership advocates as an example of a failed regime of gun control. In an essay in the National Review in 2001, Dave Kopel argued that "[t]he Gun Court took guns only out of the hands of Jamaica's law-abiding, leaving them at the mercy of the criminals and the state."[23] John R. Lott has argued that "gun-control laws have failed to deliver as promised," noting that the murder rate in Jamaica was lower before the introduction of stricter gun control: it rose from 11.5 to 19.5 per 100,000 between 1973 and 1977, and reached 41.7 per 100,000 in 1980.[24] By 2007 the rate had risen to 1,574 murders in the calendar year, or 59 per 100,000 inhabitants.[25]"
A life sentence for possession of a single bullet, and their murder rate has gone up how many times? This is in a poor nation that was never heavily into firearms, not an industrialized nation with at least sixty million gun owners, immense ability to make illegal guns and ammunition and long history of civil disobedience.
Do yourself a favor, just forget it. It'll be easier on you if you set your mind up to create a nation where there was enough Justice that nobody needed a gun.
..being stopped by a police officer. The driver of our car got out and the cop drew on him. He explained that more officers were killed in the Northeast in situations like this than any other. Something like that. Watch how the police deal with domestic violence now..there will be SWAT teams every time Bickerson's go battlin'.
I dont know why these left wing nut jobs want to ban guns. Its our right to bare arms and own weapons. If you want to get rid of guns go to england and live. I am proud to have the right to own guns whether they are automatic or not. I am a avid hunter and i carry both my 30-06 and a .44 cal pistol. I own a few shotguns as well. If obama tries to take away our gun rights it wont stop people from owning them. I am a southerner and i know alot of people are going to think im some dumb redneck but in reality i am a gunnersmate in the USN. I work with guns all the time. I just think that the guy who shot those cops didnt do it because he was a right winged crazy man. i think he was just a lunatic mad man who didnt care for his life or those of the police officers he killed.
and no one dies.
gunner86 and ps309 who posted comments above, implying that pro-gun organizations are in no way responsible for this kind of erratic behavior:
I was born in Pittsburgh and raised about twenty miles from the Point. Years ago, my brother (16 months age difference) and I liked hunting, and we were on the high school rifle team. After college, I was tied up with career and eventually family, and "dropped out" of the gun crowd. But my brother continued going to gun clubs, and developing his shooting skills. And I began to notice a change in behavior.
After years of listening to the gun crowd information, and the increasingly extreme positions from the people he associated with at these gun clubs, he began to exhibit rather bizarre behavior. He became very antisocial, forced his wife to divorce him (even though she is still in love with him). Within the past five years, he has resorted to threatening people, particularly with regard to "his property". If someone displeases him, he tells them to get off his property, and he sometimes grabs a firearm and threatens them, in order to comply. He has threatened one of his sons, and other people in his family. Once, when I was there to help him work on a property he owns with me, he tried this nonsense on me. When I said, I wasn't leaving, that I was a guest of his wife, as well as his own guest, he headed to the gun room (where he has over 30 guns stashed, with thousands of rounds of ammunition) in the basement to get a gun. I saw what he was doing, and challenged him on his behavior, and embarrassed him enough, to get him to stop. This was two years ago.
This behavior is particularly odd, since he taught gun and hunter safety courses for gun clubs and the NRA for years.
I live out of state now, and have been getting alarming reports of strange behavior from his ex-wife, and my sister. He has cut off all communications with my family, his girlfriend he saw after his divorce, left him, and all our mutual friends haven't heard from him lately.
Worst, he now seems to believe that he has some kind of "right" to threaten anyone, or shoot them if they come onto his property. He has somehow picked this up, after years of being preached to by the gun crowd. My mild-mannered little brother, has somehow morphed into the kind of person who sees his identity tied up with his guns. This has left me totally shell-shocked.
After trying for a month, he finally picked up the phone today when I called him (he didn't respond to my emails). During the conversation, it was all one word answers, like "no" and "yes" spit back at me. Then he proceeded to bring up the episode from two years ago, and said "I assaulted him on his own property!" I have seen and worked with him numerous times since then, with no mention of this incident. He ended the call, by asking me to never call him again, but only send emails.
His behavior has gotten really bizarre since the election. I suspect he getting a lot of information from someone, encouraging this kind of behavior.
Since you seem to run with the gun crowd, do you have any suggestions on what I might do? I am really worried about him, and his ex-wife and my sister (she lives nearby) are worried.
I went through this "Phase" for a time. Thought that the communists were going to take it all over. Then I met some real communists, realized that they were not such terrible people and things changed for me.
I learned that a gun is no more or less effective than the person using it. I also learned that violence is a poor first choice.
What really changed me was actually being in real threat situations and having to avoid violence because I did not want to hurt anyone without just cause. Tresspass is not just cause. Assault is just cause - I nearly zapped a guy one evening who approached me for money. Instead I gave him a buck and walked away wiser.
I suspect that your brother went through a lot of changes. When that happens relationships sometimes suffer. Sometimes friendships do too.
Today some of my friends from the bad old days (when I figured that the State was the Enemy instead of just being "out there" doing its own thing) sometimes will start ranting at me about Obama or whoever. Usually I've heard their rants on Hannity or some other hack before hand and know what to say.
I usually apply some reason to the debate and they simmer down. My idea of "reason" is not to deploy typical left wing arguments but to point out that the Neo-Cons aren't really thinking too straight. They aren't.
I'm more Libertarian, but leavened by experience. So I can reason with Conservatives.
Go to Lewrockwell.com and do some reading. You might find some common ground with your brother, enough that you'll be able to make him wise up before he gets into serious trouble.
"I am a southerner"
Says it all, doesn't it?
Shawan Handtitty of FOX NOISE ought to be out celebrating right now.
BTW: The Pittsburg cop killer told friends he loved FOX and feared Obama was going to take his guns away.
You know, I've heard Hannity say that several times, personally.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/222247... [freerepublic, heh,
heh.]
The dead Pittsburgh cop's families should go after Hannity & FOX for
irresponsible broadcasting and ask for jail, not money for Handtitty, Ailes, Murdoch and Handtitty's staff.
New show on FOX sponsored by, Handtitty's Shit-For-Brains Cola, "Who will be the next big Cop Killer?"
(cue music):
(cue announcer):"From downtown Birmingham, Alabama, in the Bunker, it's Sean Handtitty's,
"Who Wants to be the Next Big Tim McVeigh. Here's your host, long time
conservaloon, midget Paaaat Saaaajak".
you have to taught to hate that way.
you have to be carefully taught.
THE PRECIOUS second AMENDMENT WAS TO PROTECT THOSE WHO OWNED SLAVES FROM A GOVERNMENT THAT MIGHT FORCIBLY END SLAVERY!
It was a 'compromise', based on the premise that the concept of 'freedom' might someday be applied to those in shackles and that slaveowners had the 'right' to protect themselves from those opposed to slavery, even their government, as well as for protection from the slaves themselves.
It had nothing to do with 'collecting' or 'hunting' and also had very little to do with the british, since the british had already been defeated.
The debates regarding the 2nd concerned a Standing Army under the control of the Federal Government, versus an old style "Posse" system composed of armed free persons. The State Reps were concerned about a Standing Army forcing them to do things... a fear which was born out after the Civil War, when the Union Army not only imposed "reconstruction" but also re-established Export taxes on cotton, in order to prevent the South from trading with Europe.
There was no mention in any of the debates about the desire of slave owning States demanding arms to protect their slaves from Abolitionists. Who was going to come and take the slaves? There was no abolitionist movement in the US at that time. The British still kept slaves at home and in their colonies. The trade in slaves wasn't abolished until 1808, years after the Bill of Rights were ratified.
John Brown, a white man, raided a Federal Arsenal in Harpers Ferry to arm the slave, helping him to be free. Brown was executed by the State.
It's ironic - the first gun control laws in the US were aimed at Slaves. It was a crime to arm a slave. There were also laws that forbid selling firearms to certain native American tribes. So, gun control began as a racist institution in the US.
After the Civil War the KKK had difficulty dealing with "uppity" freed slaves who had the temerity to shoot back. So the Nightriders had their buddies in the Alabama legislature pass a law that banned "cheap" firearms. New York City's famous "Sullivan Act" was named after an Irish legislator who was asked by the City's predominantly Irish political machine to sponsor a law which would disarm Italian immigrants who were rebelling against the rules and regs of City Government. Italians were likened back then the same as Mexicans today "Swarthy", "secretive" and "greasy" - many of the same stereotypes. Latinos who would not yield to their Irish overlords, until they were disarmed so that they could be bullied and broken.
During the Civil Rights movements of the 1960s quite a few people took comfort from a firearm at their side to prevent night riders from attacking them and their families. Gun control would have exposed the Freedom Riders to KKK terrorism, except that the Freedom Riders simply bought guns.
http://www.lizmichael.com/racistgc.htm
Gun control racism continues even to this day but the sins of gun control are not spoken aloud. People of color who live in public housing can be rousted for "illegal firearms". Urban areas, which are often populated by people of color in far greater numbers than white people, have strong gun control laws.
Meanwhile, out in the suburbs and rural areas, white folks enjoy relatively permissive gun laws, including the right to purchase automatic firearms and other military arms. No, I did not miswrite that statement, real automatic firearms are legal if you obtain the proper paperwork. Many rural sheriffs and police sign the Form IVs required to obtain the tax stamp. Very few urban police chiefs will sign them. Institutionalized Racism? Maybe...
Makes a body wonder about gun control, doesn't it? Who is really the racist here and why aren't people of color angry because their right to be defend themselves and their families has been taken away from them by urban elitists?
It is sad how much ignorance is shown in these forums/blogs. The truth is there is a ratio of dumb a$s to normal people in anything. If you people think banning guns is what will stop violence you are mistaken, the only thing banning guns will do is take guns out of honest citizens hands, you think the criminals will give them up? So now what happens when someone that has a gun (Criminal) gets the urge to rob someones house that they know for a fact does not own a gun? they wont think twice..
If you want to make a difference in the killing of innocent victims ban CARS, Ive been a firefighter for the past 5 years, There are 20x more "innocent" people killed from drunk drivers than anything else, let alone guns. where is the outcry to ban the mechanism of their killing,"cars"? the same amount or more officers have been killed in my city(which is a very large one) from drunk drivers and auto fatalities.
If you want to see what happens to a society when gun bans come into play, do your research look into the gun ban in australia,and how since it has come into effect how crime has had a staggering rise.
Can you point me to a link that doesn't go to one of your batshit crazy right wing sites that factually states that Obama/Democrats are trying to ban guns?
Just one.
They also support making the expired federal Assault Weapons Ban permanent, as such weapons belong on foreign battlefields and not on our streets.
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/urban_policy/
come to my place in an emergency.
I'll point out the difference between 'cars' and 'guns.'
'Cars' are primarily used for transport. Like your shiny red or chartreuse fire engine. They are manufactured to travel at sub sonic speeds, in all cases, except for specialised Bonneville Salt Flats bullshit. Someone who operates a car under the influence of alcohol should be punished severely. Drunk driving laws are too lax IMHO.
'Guns' and their attendant accessories, 'bullets' are mean to shoot. And kill. And many guns are designed to fire their projectiles at supersonic speeds. And are designed to fire their projectiles rapidly. And if the rapid fire thing is illegal, kits can be supplied to get around that.
Ever had to fight a fire at a crazy ass ammo hoarder's home, genius? They generally don't announce their hobby when you roll up on the scene.
When you have to tend one of your buddies, or a cop or a kid that's been shot to bits by an object whose only purpose is to kill, come back here and tell us how if that fireman or kid had had a gun, they'd still be alive.
Look at all the dead cops who HAD guns. Having a gun didn't help them.
One only has to look at Australia or the UK to see what happens when we ban guns.
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!"
Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
You know how many gun deaths there were in the UK last year? 42
In Australia, it's 247.
In both countries, the incidences of gun deaths have been declining.
But...
In 1999 (the most recent year I could find), there were 28,874 gun related deaths in the US.
So you were saying?
Australians and Brits are all in gulags!
I'm sure that people who have been beaten by Yobs in Britain, had their Mum, Sis or sweetie raped or have enjoyed a "hot burglary" will take great comfort knowing that Brits and Aussies enjoyed an increasing lower rate of gun deaths.
Meanwhile, here in Western PA, where we're still reeling from this tragedy, our homicide rate outside of the big cities approaches that of Europe, about 5.0/100,000. My little hometown last saw a murder two years ago. We are poorer than most locales, I think about $5,000 a year on average less than the norm, but for some damn odd reason we're not awash in murder, mayhem and other maladies that our cousins in Britain and elsewhere suffer.
We also are an NRA stronghold and our CCW rate exceeds that of many locales in the US. If guns cause gun deaths why on Earth aren't the people outside of the cities - who often have more guns per capita - not dropping like flies?
By and large the debate around gun ownership is a rural/urban divide. Cities are pressure cookers. In your small town life, you see the same people, day in day out, most days you won't see someone you don't know. City life is completely different. The vast majority of people I see during the day are complete strangers. There is a lot more opportunity for tension, for things to go wrong and for people to become lost and alienated.
Apparently you never tried to use one of those "kits" my man. The ATF will not permit a firearm to be sold that is "easy to convert", and they have labs which evaluate all perspective guns. I heard that some AK clones had to be "redone" up to three times before the Agency was happy. If they're not happy, no sale.
Sure you can buy "conversion kits". You can buy dope too. Sometimes the dope is oregano and sometimes it's the real deal. Why bother playing with something unsafe and illegal?
A shotgun is safer, legal and accepted by most Juries. A machinegun? Why not just say, "Put me so far in a cell that I'll have to be fed with a slingshot", if the damn thing doesn't fire out of battery, jam or get a cartridge case rupture and injure you?
Sorry you've had to roll up to homes with ammunition cooking off. Bet it was as bad as rolling up to a home with fireworks, propane tanks, stored gasoline, cleaning solvents and so on.
People all for banning guns usually have no concept about them. Sure, you can convert an AR15 to full auto with a few parts, but you'll go to jail for it if caught. And a semi-auto AR15 is plenty of rifle already.
Yes, cars are for transportation, guns are made to kill, that's a big difference.
On the other hand, if some thug has broken into your house, high on meth and holding a knife or gun, you can't defend yourself very well with your Ford Taurus in the driveway.
As to the 2nd Amendment, having lived in countries with no gun ownership rights, there are subtle and not-so-subtle differences in how the government treats its citizens---random id checks, the right to search houses without a warrant, and so on. Gun ban proponents should consider it's at least POSSIBLE that the rights we have remain because they may be backed up by the threat of the armed defense of them by the citzenry.
The post about the racial aspect of gun control was very interesting.
This whole mess is stupid. Not once have I heard Obama say he was going to take anyone's guns away. Even though I believe he should think about it. I voted for him and am damn proud of it. I'm also a Nam vet and do NOT own a gun of no kind. And also up till two weeks ago had not even shot a gun in more than 20 years. These right wingers need to settle down and get it out of their dumb heads that Obama is not out to take anyone's gun from them. This county of Luddites that I live in now have run all of the gun shops out of guns over their stupidity. Really makes me feel safe huh? NOT! I'm thinking about putting bullet proof glass in my pickup just to be able to stay alive around here. Heck even some of my own friends are going over the deep end over this shit. So I only have one thing to say. Put your damn guns down. No one is going to come for them. I promise. And please quit killing all of these cops. Before long we won't have any cops left because of all the right wing wing nuts either shooting them or them quitting because they are out numbered.
Go see Obama's campaign site - he's still saying he's gonna ban "assault weapons". The fact that his AG was told to cool it and Pelosi and Reid are saying "not now" is ill comfort to a body who has watched the Democratic Party Leadership and "progressives" wage a dirty war against the Gun Culture since the 1970s.
Especially in Washington DC, New York City and Chicago. All cities with gun freezes and past episodes of gun confiscation.
Some of us remember Tom Foley holding the gavel on a tie vote for the House version of Feinstein ban until he could get two more votes. I remember it quite clearly, because the Democrats cried about it in the late 1990s when the GOP did the same thing. Guess breaking the rules for a good cause is jake but not some "reactionary" thing?
Some of us remember after the Feinstein ban passed that we were told, "This is just the first step to control handguns. We're setting a precedent that guns are not a right but a privilege."
We remember FIST (Firearms Identification and Statistical Tracking), which was a gadget that used Brady gun purchase checks to create a map of "gun owners". The Brady Law specifically forbids the use of trace data for any purpose except to verify the integrity of the system. I'm quoting the law almost verbatim.
In other words, the Congress says, "You can't use Brady Traces for anything except checking the integrity of the system" but Janet Reno sends the Pgh Gun Task force money so that they can break a Federal Law.
These people don't play by their own rules but we're supposed to trust them?
President Obama says that, yes, he's gonna ban semi automatic firearms that "are used on battle fields all over the world" on his campaign site, but no, he's really not going to take anyone's guns. Not today. Not now.
People who own guns may not be political correct or "progressive". However to assume that they're stupid is probably a mistake. Didn't anyone on the left learn anything from 1994, or about how Smith and Wesson was crushed after it "caved in" to the Clinton DOJ deal?
Do you folks need to learn the same bitter lessons that the right wing learned in 1934 about Prohibition?
To the gun nut, these are symbols of freedom and power. To those who are not so enlightened these are symbols of violence and death and are associated with war, intimidation, and terror. As for Gun Culture, cult is more like it, with the second amendment as its gospel. And, like it or not, Richard Poplawski is a member of its congregation.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/agenda/urban_policy/
Look under Crime and Law Enforcement(The last sentence).
Should read:"They also support making the expired federal Assault Weapons Ban permanent."
but if you just read the sentence above
So let me get this straight...you're perfectly fine with the suspension of posse comitas and illegally wiretapping Americans without a warrant, but damnit! don't take away your right to own an AK-47?
Really? That's your argument?
Lame.
Keep your handguns, keep your hunting rifles, but why oh why do you think that Assault Weapons (something previously banned) are necessary?
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