Olympia Snowe reverses herself on co ops and admits public option not on the table in Senate Finance Committee
By John Amato Friday Aug 21, 2009 10:03amOlympia Snowe admitted to Andrea Mitchell that the Senate Finance Committee is not even considering a public option in their bill and never had it on the table. She said that the skyrocketing costs of health care are paramount to their bill which is why they are ogling co opts.
Mitchell: So bottom lines, Nancy Pelosi says that they will not produce anything that does not include a public option. Do you see any way that the gang of six will come out of the Finance Committee with a public option?
Snowe: No, I don't. We have not had the public option on the table. It's been co ops and addressing affordability and availability and plans through the exchange and those are the challenges we're wrestling with to insure that there are basic plans to offer Americans.
You can count on the gang of six of working on problems that don't include real solutions. This is a reversal on what she said to Andrea back in June when she said co ops were worthless.
Snowe: ...states today can create co-ops as a matter of fact, but we want to make sure that not just incorporating the status quo. In other words, if these co-ops were to be formed, Americans still could not have access to affordable, quality plans then you really do have to have a contingency plan, with a fall back plan of some kind to make sure that you do have the conditions to ensure that Americans do have access to an affordable plan.
Today for example in the state of Maine, you don't have the purchasing power necessary to leverage competitive prices so it really has kept so many people and so many small businesses out of the market, we want to make sure that's not what we repeat as we try to reform and provide universal access and coverage to all Americans.
Why is she now on board with co ops when she knows they suck? Is Chuck " Killin' Grandma" Grassley her daddy?
Nancy Pelosi reiterated today that there is no way a health care bill passes the HOUSE without a public option.
Foreshadowing a House-Senate showdown, Speaker Nancy Pelosi said Thursday there is "no way" the House can pass a health care bill without a government-run insurance option.
Speaking at a news conference in San Francisco, Pelosi told reporters that a public option will "keep insurance companies honest."
“There’s no way I can pass a bill in the House of Representatives without a public option,” the California Democrat said, according to wire reports. "Unless someone comes up with a better idea, that's how we're going forth in the House."
Pelosi reportedly added: "If someone can come up with a better idea, let them put it on the table, we haven't heard that yet. ... So we're fighting very hard for the public option."
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Fixed it!
That's about it.
Obama is censoring and protecting criminal information from Bush and his mob during the past 8 years,,, Obama lies and deceit are following the same path of Bush..
Obama is just as Hillary quoted during the campaign ,,, Obama is just a person with a speech.. But you can not believe a d... word he promises you..
Obama or Clinton say. They're both corporatist/rightwing prostitutes. Clinton was Korporate Amerikkka's first choice, Obama was their backup candidate. The Korporate world's propaganda arm, the MSM, made short work of any candidate who could have been counted on to stand up for the American People during the debates. If Democratic voters wanted single-payer or it's poor step child the so-called "public option", they would have elected Kucinich and/or Gravel. Maybe we will have learned our lesson come 2012?
good one....sad but true. Plus it made me chuckle
I had thought that you were an honorable person. Now, you're saying the Public Option isn't/wasn't on the table, and you're reversing your position on co-ops. So, I have serious doubts about you. How sad that someone purporting, and elected, to serve the American people would seem to be advancing the cause of anti-American, greedy corporatists, such as the motivated-only-by-profits insurance companies, or more cravenly, to be joining those that simply want our President to be seen as failing in his commitment to improve the lot of all Americans.
You should know in your heart that Single Payer is the best option for our country, but you're not even entertaining the watered down compromise of the Public Option. Your politics are overriding the health and welfare of our citizens. Where is the honor in that?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNRoeMvzMVo
When 77% of Americans in general, and their own constituents in particular, want single-payer or a "public option", I would think that it should be a piece of cake to get a federal jury to convict these greedy, slimy, unprincipled scumbags for quid pro quo bribery: They took the money, they then voted in ways that betrayed their office and the People; those are the facts. It would be so easy to prove, given how brazenly they have worked against the will of the overwhelming majority of the voters. Given that single-payer is the least expensive way of seeing to healthcare, and a public option that is open to whoever chooses it, is wholly government administered, is available without limits or restrictions is the second least expensive way of going about it, their laughable and empty arguments that they are concerned about costs only highlights these crooks' corruption. I would predict about a two minute jury deliberation.
I have been planning on moving to Maine, but now I have the added incentive of going there just so I can vote against Snowe. I hate a crook.
Email daily ...1800.828.0498 or 1.866.220.0044
This is a mess and the crazies are winning ---I have attended 3 townhalls and they do not seem too out of control..People are just scared because the airways are filled with lies and MSM is pushing the bad --over the support! And ambigious in the explanation!
Add the local stations to the call for sponsors to be boycotted...I received a very fast email back from local NBC channel when they saw it had been bcc or cc to some major local companies and national advertisers!!!
was supposed to be our best chance. Why is the Obama Adm. and the democrats still talking by-partisianshit. We will remember all of them when the next election comes around. Let's see if the drug companies and the insurance companies can still buy our votes.
'nuff said!
House Minority Leader John Boehner(R-OH) said on "Meet the Press" that Republicans would never agree to a plan that doesn't allow citizens the choice to be denied medical care in the private sector. Americans don't need massive insurance companies to become even more rich and powerful by withholding from average citizens the care they so desperately require. We're talking about people's health and the obscene profits associated with that, after all.
What's next?
They gonna admit they've never really had anyones best interest in mind but their own?
failed because they did not consult Congress? Maybe the Clintons failed because there IS Congress. Bush may have done the wrong thing,
but he didn't let Congress stop him from doing it.
to twist any arms in congress to get his bullshit passed either.
for an answer.
Now ya bringin up old shit huh?
in DC. What kind of people do you think we are?
Aaaahahahahahaaaaaa!
Oooh man...I kid...I kid!
had y'all goin there for a minute though right?
Is the table nancy is always talking about the same one Barnie Frank doesn't want to argue with? Be careful Ms. Pelosi, it seems a lot of things get taken off your table. Keep it steady.
but it is provencial.
I was thinking of those old card tables that would fold if too much weight was placed on them. They also served as dining tables at Thanksgiving for the kiddie table.
And who got the blame when the food spilled?
the youngest kid.
Why do they keep voting this flip-flopper in office, especially when she usually sides with the Reslugs and against helping Americans?
Republican!
Ms Snowe might as well just come out and say it. Just say the insurance companies told me to tell you that I have changed my mind.
Strike the "maybe." Add her to the list of those bought and paid for.
The new Obama team has truly had it's ass handed to them in this debate. Negotiations and discovery that the Republicans, across the board want nothing to do with any of the Obama agenda should not be surprising but it being dragged out so long is disheartening .. The republicans would be of the same value to us as a country if they just stayed home. But, Obama letting it go so long is abysmal...blame him and the staff.
SO now, as we speak, the options are:
1) Down in flames - not acceptable to most of the country
2) Pass a 'bill' that gets out of 'committee' between the house and senate that can be passed easily in the house and will use re-conciliation in the Senate - can be done but the strange rules about what can and can't be pass using re-conciliation are leaning toward another option for the se of re-conciliation.
3) Split the bill in two - can be passed in both the house and senate from a 'policy' point of view but can be passed using re-conciliation in the senate from a financial view.
If you'll note there is Z E R O republican participation here....as it should be.
Our cowardly p-p-pr-president would never go for a plan of action that required real, honest leadership. That's the problem, here...NOT Snowe!
you should be so proud. Maybe you should schedule some townhouse events to go to. You'll be in good company.
notice the clothes fit funny on Tylor.
schedule some townhouse events to go to
and don't forget to take your gun :<(
Not sure what kind of townhouse I'd like, but something with hardwood floors, maybe? Sorry, I guess, you aren't ready to make Obama take responsibility for being a Republican appeaser and a rubbery-spined noodle. Give it time...you'll figure it out. He's givin' Chuck Grassely and Snow whatever they want..what you gettin' for all your support?
Obama and Emanuel are really republicans as Baccus and the Blue dogs are...
They share the same policies and protect themselves against the fearful progressives which are trying to save this country.
Obama is the only democrat which I have voted for in my life that I regret...
Of course I never voted for other republicans as Emanuel , Baccus or any of the blue dogs...
To think all the campaigning , support and votes we have work our a... off for the democrats and it ALL has turn to s... by way of Obama , Emanuel and the blue dogs..
Doose?
Two bucks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VU3JrXt_cPk
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?ter...
Saw the second definition and I immediately understood, "My God, it's full of stars"-style.
our hopes up. We could have been that further along in adjusting ourselves to the permanent Republican/Conservative rule.
the finance committee got its claws into this? Seems to me that Reid should have given a different committee control over this issue.
Public option in House measure goes for reconcilliation with a Senate bill with co-ops. Co-ops comes out, Everybody sighs and says "It was the best that we could do, undert he circumstances."
obama signs any piece of shit that gets to his desl, and proclaims it the greatest victory since the Civil Rights or the Voting Act. Nobody calls bullshit, because this outcome was the one fore-ordained by the Owners before the elaborate, meaningless kabuki unfolded in the first place...
I'm just an average shmoe with no connections, but it seems to me that we are handling this public option/health care issue all wrong. Rather than raise money for a whole bunch of progressive-leaning candidates, why not simply start an Act Blue "Anybody But Baucus" fund and see if we can't raise a couple million dollars for anyone (with an honest hope of winning), Republican or Democrat, willing to take him on. We have time to raise some serious cash. If nothing else, make Baucus fight for his political life and make him spend all that insurance money that he is getting. I think this is the way to go...maximize our dollars and send the loudest, clearest message: screw with us and pay a price!
Seriously, raising a quarter million dollars for 60 or 100 candidates in a day or two is a big deal, but the media won't report it...it is, to them, ho-hum. But, raise that money for one guy and against the guy standing in the way of health care reform and see what happens. Raise five times that much in a few weeks or months and just watch the media and so-called moderate Democrats take notice. We need to, finally, make these people pay a real price for their corporate-loving, people-screwing ways. This plan would do just that! If you agree, spread the word...get it those at FIREDOG and ACT BLUE that can take the ball and run with it.
we have five whole years to raise all that money, too.
...then make it Hoyer or Snowe (Republican in a blue(ish) state) or any of the other Democrats playing Baucus' game. Pick one, anyone and make them PAY!!! That is the point...make the obstructionists pay...just once, make the SOBs pay!!!
And then they'll go on the air complaining that there's no more room for moderates any more, and the radicalization of politics.
All it gives me is nervous tics.
Maybe I should see a doctor about that.
Simultaneously, there needs to be a massive petition drive to compel the Justice department to appoint a special prosecutor to investigate and bring charges against the bribers and the bribees for quid quo pro bribery. Prosecute and impeach those members who have sold us all out in order to line their own pockets or fatten their campaign war chests.
Baucus will probably not be staying in the Senate anyway. He probably has a nice lobbying job waiting for him in the health insurance industry.
Can't these obstructing assholes on the finance committee be easily replaced?
Why are they in charge of the entire matter?
Bought and paid for Olympia Snowe admits to lying and tries to shove junk out as new.
Single payer or impeachment whichever amuses congress and the rich more.
If you don't own insurance company stock or bonds, there is no way that ANY bill that is not single payer is going to help you personally.
In case you haven't noticed.
http://d.yimg.com/a/p/ap/20090820/capt.8b52be...
everything is pretty much lost according to you.
And it is a pretty sorry state to be in too!
With non-republicans like Evet, who needs republicans!
when are you going to face the facts.
And he really can't walk on water either. We have been so had!
Here's an op-ed from The Boston Globe two days ago that should explain a lot of what is going down here. This op-ed explains that basically Obama has co-opted the rotten failure of a Massachusetts Plan that was hatched by former Governor Mitt Romney and Sen. Kennedy. Here's the link to give everyone BG info:
http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_o...
One only need go to this website to understand the sham that the Mass Plan is:
www.masshealthlawtruth.org
Just to give you an example of what may be coming down the pike for all of us:
This will be federally MANDATED. If you don't buy into SOME plan, you will be penalized through the IRS.
My hairdresser today told me that when she applied she found that according to her before taxes pay she fell into the category of being 200% above the poverty level. They TOLD her what her options were so she "shopped around" and the BEST PLAN SHE COULD FIND costs her $100/week and it has a $5000 deductible!!! A hairdresser!
She said to me, "People hate this plan...believe me. Where is the average person going to find $5000 to pay a deductible if he/she really needs catastrophic care?"
And here's a good one. If you do NOT apply for anything they "AUTOENROLL" you into Medicaid. And guess what? If you have Medicaid and you get sick and you happen to be living in your grandma's house that was left for you, when you die the state/federal government will get your house! So basically, they are LOANING you money for your medical insurance!
H.R. 3200 has many of the same elements as the Mass Plan. If Obama and the Democrats try to force this down our throats, Public Option or NO Public Option, there are going to be millions and millions of VERY unhappy Americans.
And the bill, as written now in the House, kicks in 180 days after the bill passes. The ball will get rolling quicker than we understand.
I've been working with someone who's website I have linked above on the Mass Plan.
We are being railroaded by the corporately controlled Congress. That's why they're running their "pro-reform" Harry and Louise commercials on the teevee.
I say, H.R. 676 or NOTHING. We need more time to fight this mess they're about to shove down our collective throats.
My feelings exactly. If we don't get it, we kick whoever didn't support HR-676 out of office when their turn comes up, including Obama.
What these jokers don't seem to grasp is that this is about more than just healthcare, it's about taking our government back from the corporations who are waging a coup of ten thousand incremental steps and purging our government of the corrupt. The effort isn't going to stop with healthcare.
when are you going to face the fact. Oh right, facts don't mean anything to y'all.
I'm not saying quit follow your convictions if you wish I'm just totally disgusted period over D.C. and the shaft job were getting and everything about it in general.
I was kinda beginning to see that you weren't eating a happy meal today.
This is bullsh*t.
McDonald's serves bullsh*t on a bun?
I think I had something like that in the Air Force.
better food than the grunts.
On the flagship, U.S.S. Truxton, DLGN-35, we got lobster and steaks every Friday while the Admiral and his staff were aboard.
I didn't mean to call all that down. I just didn't think you ever need a link.
We are getting that impression as you ever so gently express your attitude.
With Democrats like Baucus and Hoyer and, yes, Barry O. the Waffle King, who needs Republicans or Democrats? Oh, sorry, we're still pretending that one is better than the other, because from where I sit both parties seem bought-n-paid for by corporate America and that leaves you and me, the people, without ANY real representation, doesn't it?
dropped of the radar screen a ways back.
The one party that looks like it has any chance or motivation for getting real progress done are the Democrats, and that's mostly because of their numbers. Like it or not, we're going to have to pressure them to get back on track because this apathetic, cynical worldview of yours doesn't solve anything.
It's obvious that these soon-to-be-ex-Democrats don't want to get things done. The carrot didn't work, so Obama better start using the stick.
Corporate checks that fund their campaigns, and all the other frills and benefits that come from the checkbooks of lobbyists.
apathetic, cynical worldview of yours doesn't solve anything.
LOL...and you think Barry O. is what he pretended to be? You think the Democrats, who are folding like a house of cards right now; you think these people are the solution to the problem? Come on! I'm not cynical, I'm being realistic. You are still stuck on "hope" when Mister Hope has proven to be an empty promise. This isn't rocket science. One doesn't TRY to do something. One either does or does not and both Obama and the Democrats are not doing---it is that simple. How much larger do you suppose their super majority should be before they can do something?
If by chance you turn out to be wrong, how do you like your crow prepared. Roasted or fried?
Grilled isn't an option?
Like I said, the Democratic Party needs to be pressured to get anything done. We need to keep up the pressure instead of just giving up on the whole thing like you're advocating. This kind of attitude you're suggesting will not solve anything.
Obviously some members in the Party are bought out by corporate interests (saying all of them are is a stretch). These are the ones who need the most pressure and have to understand that their political life is on the line if they go against overwhelming public support. Corporate dollars won't save them from the President's arm (metaphorically speaking) around the shoulders of their competition in the primaries.
Look, I've been here before with the Democrats. You, maybe, have not. This is how they play the game. Republicans pitch a fit, Democrats cave. Only this time it is more sinister. The Democrats are, including Obama, caving to corporate pressure and hiding behind Republicans while they do it. I mean, honestly, if 60 Senators isn't enough for the Democrats to get the job done, they just don't want to get the job done. Time to accept that reality. This, of course, says NOTHING of their HUGE majority in the House. See what I am saying, now? This isn't getting done, because the Democrats don't really want a public option. It is that simple.
... because you're assuming all 60 of those Senators are not going to vote for it. Bipartisanship is making the President and the rest of his party look weak, because they're trying to argue with people who are wholly bought out by corporate interests and see "bipartisanship" as a way to attack the President directly.
This is opening the door for the "centrist" Democrats (see "corporate-owned Democrats") to join the Republican blockade against it. They also had no intention of voting for it either. That's why they're talking about reconciliation now and bypassing the Blue Dogs and Republicans entirely. And even then, they need to know that we will not let them not pass a bill without a public option, or they're going to feel the full wrath of the American public come 2010.
But I forgot that you're a troll, so you'll just ignore this anyway and talk about kool-aid and fighting the establishment and The Man.
...that is where REAL leadership would come into play, right? That is where a president with any leadership at all would lean on these so-called moderates and make it clear that he, the guy with control of ALL the party levers, would happily fund a challenger to these punks in the next election cycle. Instead, we have Obama...still trying to make Grassley love him.
ya wet friggin blanket.
It ain't over until it's over...and it ain't over!
You sound like a fuckin quitter.
anything," neither does a disregard for facts. If you cannot accurately and honestly define a problem, you cannot even begin to solve it.
intervention of the Insurance Fairy.
that Obama is a master of 26 dimensional chess. Plus, he's counted to infinity...at least twice, so far. ; )
The only thing to do is keep the pressure up and punish the irredeemable at the voting booths.
It is no longer "health care" reform, it is "health insurance" reform. That doesn't require a public option or anything else. Man, commander rubbery spine sold us out in zero to eight months! Wimpy almost makes me miss Chimpy...that's how bad Obama has gotten to be!
Yes, if only we had gramps McCain and sarah, moose killin', Palin in office. Things would be so much better. That's a public option I don't think anyone is pining for right now.
Bad as they would have been at least we knew what we would have been getting(disaster and failure) but with Obama, its taken 8 months for his true, Republican-wannabe colors to show. My point: at least McCloony didn't pretend to be something he wasn't. Oh, and least McCloony isn't afraid to stand up for something (insane as his stances are) which we certainly cannot say about Obama!
Absolutely! Who wants a shred of hope when they can be guraranteed four years of "disaster and failure"?
I've had the hope, I don't want McCloony, but I know the hope was a false promise made by a false progressive prophet! Sorry, but if I take one more swig of the old Obama Hope Kool-Aid I am going to puke!
But the only other option was mcpalin.
that false dichotomies will soon follow if you follow troll logic.
I am no troll! I knocked on doors for Obama and made phone calls for Obama and sent money to Obama and marched in a parade for Obama. I bought the BS hook-line-and-sinker. But, I've seen enough to know now, that, when push comes to shove, there is not much difference between Obama and Baucus and Obama and McCloony. That is the point I am making. Obama promised to be a new kind of politician...the anti-McCain, if you will. Well, guess what---we got a younger, slightly more intelligent, less lunacidal version of McCain. In other words, if McCain was heads, Obama was the tails to the same coin.
Dimes Worth of Difference Philosophy as stridently as you was George Corley Wallace.
...you keep drinking the Kool-Aid and see what kind of health care bill you get out of a 60 seat Democratic Senate, a huge majority in the House, and a cowardly Democratic president. Rag on me all you want, but those are the facts: The Dems have ALL the power...and they are pretending they can't it get it done, because the mean Republicans just won't let 'em. That's the point. What is their excuse? They have none!
... and I realized this person was a troll.
But I am beginning to suspect there is more.
Maybe lNm got me thinking with those picture's of deformed feet a thread or two back. You gotta cover em with something.
Fri, 08/21/2009 - 11:44 — Taylor Doose
I've had the hope, I don't want McCloony, but I know the hope was a false promise made by a false progressive prophet! Sorry, but if I take one more swig of the old Obama Hope Kool-Aid I am going to puke!
▲
The bitterness is so apparent "Helen Keller" seen it coming, be kind to the child...
for your nap??
"I campaigned for Obama..." So now he's a bastard. You know what? I don't think you campaigned for anyone. For you to build up this much negativity and capability for name-calling, I just think what you have to say is merely full of the same BS that is spewing from the Republicans.
saying my best friend is Black when you are called out for being racist. Real easy to see through.
for my black friends and didn't even drink the Kool Aid when I realized it was grape!
That's a cheap shot! Calling people racist just because I don't happen to agree with you is a VERY Republican thing for you to do and it proves that you have nothing to base your beliefs on---just hope.
similarities are noted. For example, nobody has called anyone a racist or a troll. People have noted similarities to things trolls do, or how people react when called racist. But I haven't seen anyone say "So and So" is a troll or a racist.
Divide and conquer, yet again.
Well, you can ask my wife...we were both out there with the clipboards and we both sent our money and we both marched in the parade. I just don't like being played by punks and Obama turned out to be a punk. That is why I am upset---he pretended to be one thing and turned out to be another. Maybe you like being lied to, but it pi$$es me off!
... is an unbiased source, and/or real.
This is like arguing with Bush supporters. Think whatever you will...LOL...I'll never convince you of anything and, honestly, don't need to.
Our attempts at meaningful discussion failed when you didn't bother listening in the first place and kept going on the offensive.
Rather than waste more effort to talk to you, it's better just to call you a troll and leave it at that.
Wow! You surrender faster than Barry O.
inquiring minds need to know: what is a Doose?
Or a strong, large mammal. Like a beast of .....
You kids aren't too smart...
"Taylor Doose is the town Selectman of Stars Hollow. He also has many roles in the government and organization of the town, and owns Doose's Market and Taylors Old Fashioned Soda Shoppe. He is in charge of organizing the town's major events and functions, and holds frequent town meetings so that he can discuss what he thinks is going wrong in the town."
He is a character from Gilmore Girls...I needed a name and my fave, Ralph Kramden was already taken.
Here, have some fun with it:
http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0016788/bio
Then, go watch the television program via DVD and enjoy the last real liberal television program, sadly, to ever be on corporate-owned television.
And I thought you were making fun of Tyler Durden...
What's the story behind Tyler Durden? Is that a real person too?
Fight Club, I would tell you more but I can't... them rules and stuff.
... only hurts your throat.
Also, "doose": http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=doose
is (and has always been) a false dichotomy. And that sort of severely affects the validity of the criticism some of you bring forth. In the same fashion, the Obama apologist trying to equate the defeat of McCain in the election as a sort shield to deflect criticism on the current failure regarding the health care reform by this administration, are equally wrong. Both approaches are based on intellectual dishonesty.
Frankly I think we're all on the same side. This bickering is divisible and does not benefit anyone other than the GOP. Obama is not Bush by any stretch of the imagination, but the fact that McCain wasn't elected does not make the elimination of real and meaningful (read disruptive) health care reform (among a litany of things that need to be changed/reformed) any more palatable.
Obama and the Dems are in charge now, they need to do the right thing. And if they seem to be unwilling to do so, we need to show our teeth and make them do their damned jobs. IMHO Obama is (and should be) open for reasonable criticism when it is due. However, some posters are negative no matter what as their MO, which is an easy cop out... it is very easy to be a critic no matter what. While other posters seem to be of the impression that ignoring some of the the failures by this administration makes it all better.
was for the obvious reasons. Now I have to live it.
..well, my enthusiasm for the new President seems to be on the wane. He trying to be too centrist, have his cake and eat it too. He's trying to appease the other side and he has no real reason to. He is either going to change his way of doing things or I see the gop just skewering him in 2012 as a failed President. Not that they're not going to do that any way but I'm thinking of how Carter was so severely bashed in 1980.
Its time for Change we can see not just believe in!
Reality is Perception; Perception is Reality.
Who the hells in charge anyway?
but there is much more involved than meets the eye. I have, on prior occasions said there would be a time to hold the Prez' feet to the fire.
The 100 or so Democratic reps that have said no public option, no vote in favor of the bill need to told they have progressive support.
More involved than 60 Dem Senators and a huge majority in the House and a Dem President? Okay, if they can't get the job done with that paradigm, what more would it take?
you reflect badly on yourself. Kind on make some of us think yor are projecting. By the way, what are you doing now to put pressure. Have you written to you rep or senator? Or are you just into crying!
Did you, if you can, donate something to Act Blue. Do you support Move On.Org. or the ACLU?
Gesundheit...
I did register my disgust with all the above, minus Act Blue (why give more money to Dems who will sell me out). I unsubscribed to Obama's site, from the DNC, wrote my Rep and told him he can bang on his own doors, wrote my Senator and told her she can make her own phone calls: No public option, no money, no help, no vote.
They need to be told they have NO progressive support if they are voting against the public option, if your argument prevails.
The thing is, Democrats ALWAYS treat their base this way, because they know we have no place to go...it is either Obama and them or Repubs. The problem is that, and Dems never figure this out, we have another option: stay home and they lose.
the corporate money goes to the GOP. But then, why would we care.
I put this on another thread about becky, but it may be more appropriate here:
I've discovered something odd.
In recent polls Obama polls approval ranks anywhere from 11-17% over disapproval in favor of his job performance, and still in the 60's for likeability.
According to a recent NBC poll there's a difference of 47 percent disapprove of his handling of the health care reform, 41 percent approve. However, at the same time the biggest numbers are 37 percent want major reform to medical health (compared to 21% who want minor change or less), and 33 percent want a complete overhaul.
So where are these stories about a massive drop in his popularity coming from? And what percentage of the disapproval ratings come from people who want major change to complete overhaul (perhaps single-payer)?
You have one side that can be swayed by arguments, and you have another that cannot. Blame it on their authoritarian nature, their lack of education or knowledge of the issues, their strict upbringing of supporting their political party, or their own inherent biases against race or whatever. The bottom line is that these people cannot be reasoned with and they will always go in the same direction.
How can you include both sides to the table when one side doesn't even want to admit the table exists? This is a great opportunity to alienate these people politically, and it's being wasted with bipartisanship.
Although we can hope this is part of Obama's chess game with the political landscape, it wouldn't hurt for us to start arm-twisting.
Republicans? If they are so stupid, why are they winning? Chess game, my ass. It a shell game.
... but you'd never see it at these protests. Some of these people still think Obama's a Muslim, still think he's not a natural-born citizen, and are now thinking he might even be the Anti-Christ. No sane, rational person would come to that conclusion. If there are intelligent Republicans out there who haven't jumped ship then they better start taking their party back.
Like I implied, they're "winning" because they're taking advantage of weakness from the Democrats.
I don't give a damn what rabble rousers are saying or doing. I care about the health insurance reform debate. Single payer is what we should be demanding. How can you justify being totally against the public option a few short weeks ago and demanding single payer then, and now you're upset because the public option may be "off the table?" You don't even know what the public option is, because except for one lousy talking point, no one has ever said what it is. Look over there! I think it's a shiny new troll!
That kind of sums it up, doesn't it? I would, however, say that neither Obama nor any of the others who call themselves "centrists" are in fact centrists. I take it as a given that The Constitution, The Declaration of Independence and the People are the true center of this nation. Its very soul. If a politician isn't acutely focused upon standing up for and defending these three elements of our national soul, they are anything but centrists. By my estimation and according to that standard, Obama is a Republican, as are almost the totality of his appointments. Also, by the same reckoning, Kucinich and Gravel were the only centrists who ran in 2008. That almost none of us get this distinction serves, to me, as a primary example of just how thoroughly and successfully our cultural paradigms have been manipulated by 40 years of relentless, pervasive propaganda.
The real problem is corporate control over the politicians. We get nothing ever if we cannot fix that.
The majority of Americans have just been given the finger - These people (our "elected" representatives) are collectively kreeps. May they all get boils and hemhoroids
boils and hemhoroids
don't believe those things are covered by insurance either
the social medical coverage that she enjoys as a member of congress covers everything. Insurance is for the unwashed masses, after all.
When will somebody ask Obama… if he believes that the public option is the best solution for the American public… why would he consider bargaining away the best option in order to make nice with people who don’t have the public’s best interest in mind?
Its time to start playing hard-ball!!!
There's been enough tip-toeing going on. No-one's investigating or bringing up criminal charges for the previous administration for things that are obviously crimes, they took single-payer off the table almost immediately, and now they're letting themselves get trampled because The Moose vomited words out on her Facebook account one day.
Isn't it time people went in Congress or the Senate and just start (politically) punching people in the face? They're getting walked on enough, and playing nice obviously isn't working.
Barry O. will never take on the Pubs. The guy just doesn't have the cojones to do the job. We HOPED he did, but as my Daddy used to say: "Hope in one hand and sh!@ in the other and see which one fills up faster." Well, now we know, right? Now, 'scuse me, I've got to go wash my hands;-)
lNm joke and the reluctance to type the word shit in its entirety.
Sound like anyone? LOL.
That's what I'm a thinkin...
Co-ops will not work and are unacceptable.
Co-Ops are NOT health Care reform.
*
I don't know a lot about co-ops but from what I've read they're much like I expected, like credit-unions.
The best guess is it would take about thirty years to set up a network of medical co-ops.
Medical co-ops take a lot of capital to start, primarily from the bigger boys in their expertise, which means doctors, HMO's and insurance companies will not be their competitors, but rather their investors.
Co-ops because of their relative smallness will not be able to really negotiate lower prices for anyone. They will just accept the lower end of a price range that's offered.
Co-ops do not have a good history, California has one that's essentially failing.
Last Sunday on "FOX" the AMA was for the public option and now they aren't? WTF?
I don't trust any lobbyist group that wants vitamins to be available by prescription only.
so I will answer it myself. Mrs. Greenspan said it.
It won't happen again I promise, lol!
.
The AMA is not your friend. C&L posted earlier this week about the kind of games AMA has played in past fights for health care reform. You can reference the title "Who Did You Say Your Doctor Was? Updated"
We Become Silent - The Last Days of Health Freedom
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=45109...
I thought about answering your question but I didn't know which one you wanted answered, the one where you ask if you are losing your mind or the one where you ask WTF?
PoP!
Rons in NO MOOD for quibbling! ;)
BTW...what's your sister up to tonight?
Ron just lost his sense of humor there for a minute. He's cool and he'll be fine.
As for your last question. My sister is up to ten dollars tonight. You should have called her last night, it was three dollar thursday.
10 quatloos?
Just because it's friday?
Harumph!
And I was gonna bring the Pledge tonight too...but she can just forget it!
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