Christian Right Organization's Answer To Tilikum The Killer Whale? Stone Him. Seriously.
How very Old Testament of them:
The American Family Association, a religious right group, is urging that Tilikum (Tilly), the killer whale that killed a trainer at SeaWorld Orlando, be put down, preferably by stoning. Citing Tilly's history of violent altercations, the group is slamming SeaWorld for not listening to Scripture in how to deal with the animal:
Says the ancient civil code of Israel, "When an ox gores a man or woman to death, the ox shall be stoned, and its flesh shall not be eaten, but the owner shall not be liable." (Exodus 21:28)
I'm still wrapping my head around how exactly this stoning would go. Setting aside the strange analogy to an ox, do they trap Tilly in some small tank, so he can't swim out of the way? Just how heavy are these stones that could kill an orca? Should SeaWorld sell tickets to this? Will just one really prolific rock thrower do, or do we need an army (after all this is a whale we're talking about)? Would it be Tilly's trainers that are supposed to do the stoning or is the American Family Association offering to help?
The mind reels. In fact, AFA has chastised SeaWorld for ignoring their Biblical responsibility to have destroyed Tilly earlier, as ThinkProgress points out:
The American Family Association, the powerful right-wing Christian political organization, blogged that, “If the counsel of the Judeo-Christian tradition had been followed,” Beancheau would have never died. AFA blogger Bryan Fischer reasoned that according to Exodus, an animal like Tilikum should have been stoned back in 1991, and if biblical law were to be followed, the owners of Tilikum should be put to death:
Chalk another death up to animal rights insanity and to the ongoing failure of the West to take counsel on practical matters from the Scripture. [...] So, your animal kills somebody, your moral responsibility is to put that animal to death. You have no moral culpability in the death, because you didn’t know the animal was going to go postal on somebody. But, the Scripture soberly warns, if one of your animals kills a second time because you didn’t kill it after it claimed its first human victim, this time you die right along with your animal. To use the example from Exodus, if your ox kills a second time, “the ox shall be stoned, and its owner also shall be put to death.” (Exodus 21:29)
Oh dear. How on earth do you reason with someone who pulls out the Old Testament to say that you should be killed for not destroying an orca?
For an antidote, the folks at Orca Network have a more reason-based perspective.
If this is the best they've got after Wildmon was smitten, they'll be in Westboro territory within five years, most likely less.
Barack Obama: Change we can only imagine
That is simply stunning, I have a biblical verse to share with the AFA. Proverbs 17:28 "Even a fool is counted wise when they keep their mouth shut"
Goodnight, Frau Blücher
I hope nobody in the AFA has been divorced because Jesus says that divorce and remarriage is adultery and scripture says that the penalty for adultery is to be stoned to death. In fact, just thinking about another man or woman lustfully is adultery according to Jesus. . so. .
I don't know why we don't take counsel on practical matters from the scripture. . and let the AFA lead by example by stoning anyone in their ranks who's been divorced and remarried and/or anyone married who has been thinking about Pamela Anderson in naughty ways.
I think if we followed scripture here it would solve the whole problem of people in the AFA casting their stones around first. . . because somewhere in the bible they too deserve to be stoned to death. . . . problem solved.
I doubt that whale's even been baptized.
Why did you ask?
be required to listen to the Barney song 24/7 and let's see what happens.
"Let's talk dirty to the animals"
And eventually get tired of waiting and rapture themselves.
Barack Obama: Change we can only imagine
Do they want seaworld to sell the meat, I mean they don't want the corporation to lose money do they? They are all about corporate profits after all... Or is it to be burned in some weird old-Jewish new-Christian-Right way? How far do they want to take this? Jesus said the one without sin throw the first stone, so does that mean only non-sinners may throw the stones? Will there be a drawing for these non-sinners to apply? How many would you guess would be able to apply that haven't sinned ever and still follow these backwater freaks? After the death of the whale will the death be considered a sin?
LOL
makes me cry. I can't imagine the huge loneliness and longing that poor imprisoned creatures must feel.
Keeping a sentient creature in captivity for purposes of exploitation and entertainment is no different than slavery. None.
Barack Obama: Change we can only imagine
and it breaks my heart to see these animals treated so cruelly.
There are three things that make me see red. Cruelty to animals, children and old people.
The first time I went to sea world I was in my 20s. When the dolphin show began, I started crying. I had no idea why. A few years back we went again and again I began to cry. The only thing I can figure out is that it was the deep pity I felt for those magnificent animals. They just don't belong there. They need to be able to live a natural life. I know that most of them are born in captivity but that shouldn't be happening either.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
I've never forgotten a trip to the zoo with my family when I was a kid.
There was a poor baboon looking out at us between the bars of his caged enclosure. He was spitting on everyone. The crowd thought it was hilariously funny, but I did not. I felt so sorry for him.
... Patricia and Calgary.
It IS heartbreaking. The only way to view a dolphin is in the wild -- which I used to do quite frequently in Hawaii. They'd swim up, smile and then disappear into the liquid blue yonder. Unforgettable.
SeaWorld is nothing more than a watery prison.
BID
I think that whenever I see some poor dog on his master's short leash for a couple of walks a day(probably about ten minutes) stuck in some cramped apartment all day.
I thought the same thing.
I’m not one to anthropomorphize either. I think it funny when an old lady in her apartment can tell me at any moment exactly what her dog is thinking, yet a couple living together for over 50 years can’t do the same with each other (and they’re the same species).
If only these animals could talk… Would the Orca complain about the captivity? Or just say “I like the mullet better than the squid!”
In any event, I’ve never been amused by peoples tendency to enjoy the display of dominance over very large creatures (lions, tigers, bears, elephants or orcas).
Claiming to be doing "research" while actually making millions by selling the flesh of sentient creatures for human consumption. And the "tradition" excuse doesn't work either. Now that we know they are thinking beings, consuming their flesh, holding them in captivity or exploiting them in any way should be totally out of bounds. Slavery of Africans had a long established tradition but that didn't make it any less abominable.
Barack Obama: Change we can only imagine
A greyhound is about one of the laziest dogs going when not hopped up on speed and coke. They really just need 2 20 minute walks a day and then they like to chill; they are perfect city dogs. Same with some of the smaller breeds. What I think is cruel is to leave them alone, because dogs are pack animals. I think it's cruel to see a border collie kept in a house because they need to be out working the land, same as German Shepherds need stuff to do.
I have never wanted to go to Sea World and dolphin and sea lion shows make me uneasy. Same as I have never wanted to swim with the dolphins. They aren't toys-- they are sentient, intelligent beings. I may be a little sick, but I always cheer when an animal that has no business being kept as a pet snaps all the ass off of somebody (that chimp lady excluded.)Same with idiots that climb into polar bear enclosures and get surprised when the polar bear acts like a polar bear and not like that cartoon singing one from the Chilly Willy cartoons.
My dog weighs eight pounds and has the run of our 2000 sq ft home. I'm guessing he gets more exercize than most larger dogs when you toss in the playing fetch and all his other playing. He does get to go on short walks but he just isn't crazy about being outside. In the house he knows he's safe but it's a big world outside.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
I have a small home and no yard to speak of. My "yard" is all sand spurs and ant hills (I rent and I'm not about to break my back and bank account trying to make a yard out of that sand pile).
Anyway, I love dogs but I don't own a dog specifically because of my living situation. Until I have a place where I can run around my own yard in my bare feet I won't have a dog.
If your dog has room to run in your home then I'm sure he's happy.
Without learning of the creatures there would be no science. Keep a few in captivity is a small price to pay for the endearment of whales to further their protection.
Think of it like this keeping a hand full in tiny tanks allow children to see them, cheer them, and dream of studying them one day. Who will grow up one day and protect them by knowing more about them.
What a messed up comment L and L. I hope you and nix have some baggage because that was out of line.
What's gotten into you lately?
I apologize to you Nix...although I completely disagree with your animal research justification, my reply was over the top.
I'm sorry.
I can understand the bad mood lately thing. I've been there too.
I worked at Marineland in Rancho Palos Verdes, CA, for two years. Although it wasn't directly with the animals, I got to know several of them pretty well, including our killer whales. I can't tell you how much this job taught me about marine biology, how many classes went through there to learn, how many biologists collected samples and learned about their habitat and ways to protect them. We also had the Marine animal rescue center which rescued and released thousands of birds and sea mammals.
I hope the shows and exploitation will go away one day, but we shouldn't demonize the people working at the parks or the discoveries they are making. Many of these people are truly committed to wildlife and help preserve many more animals in their natural habitat.
It is worth noting that the shows, while exploitative, help people to develop positive feelings towards these wonderful animals. It is also good to know that the handlers really do love these animals and want nothing but the best for them. Is this the best method of learning about them? I don't know, but it has definitely increased our knowledge far more than observation in the wild alone ever could have.
Democracy is the road to socialism. ~ Karl Marx
I wonder what the whales said when they were asked?
Barack Obama: Change we can only imagine
I agee with you to some extent, but the animals don't need to perform to be educational. My husband is a marine biologist. He followed his dream and it didn't begin at sea world. It began when he was a kid and saw Jacques Cousteau on tv.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
Will we learn about an orca's natural behaviors by studying it in a salt-water swimming pool? There are simply some things you cannot learn by removing an object from its native environment (including the food chain and natural predators).
My love of science was not engendered by having a chemistry set as a child; it is because my parents and teachers encouraged my natural intellectual curiousity and helped me to develop skills to further it.
it came from the handcuffs that came with the Jr. Detective Kit I got as a child and the natural thrill I developed by being strapped to the luggage rack of the station wagon for family vacations in our lovely and scenic national park system.
“Why would anyone with a functioning brain believe this guy?”
Some guy with an eating disorder
there is definitely some truth to the claim that zoos/aquariums help foster concern for, and action on behalf of, animals and ecosystems. and, one could further argue, that the initial intro of "shamu" to the public went a long way to inspire conservation of orcas.
fast fwd several decades and the question arises: does it still serve any purpose, other than revenue generation, to keep orcas (and dolphins, great apes, etc.) in captivity? the stunted life of these amazing creatures, the loss of culture, language, etc. all come in to play. i think that the use of orcas, as circus acts, in conservation has run its course and it is time to fold-up sea world as an attraction.
And what have we learned from whales and dolphins that has made one shitting bit of difference?
I know we've learned that they're miserable in captivity.
We've learned that they can't stay really healthy in captivity.
We've learned that it's really cruel to keep them in captivity.
And yet with all that knowledge we've apparently learned nothing.
Your argument isn't even strong enough to be called weak.
We have been studying them in their wild habitat for years and do not need to keep them in captivity to study them. Children will be captivated by seeing them in the wild; they will pity the whales stuck in tanks. The article is about yet another righteous human being thinking it is their god given right to decide this animals fate.
is not good for any living thing.
to me this echoes the argument about life in prison vs. capital punishment, either one sucks.
keeping these animals locked up like this is just so cruel, then they have to do tricks to get fed.
the afa hardly bears comment, they just assume that humans have a right to treat animals like this, then they go from there.
the christian right is deep into our politics, you really have to study the situation to understand their code words and objectives.
every press release they put out is another attempt to gain or consolidate credibility in the marketplace of ideas.
Leviticus says women who are menstruating should not leave the house and anything they come in contact with should be burned.
I wonder who at the AFA abides by these Judeo-Christian tenets?
And well they should!
Barack Obama: Change we can only imagine
One thing is for sure, the whale is a hell of a lot wiser than this group of strange believers.
So this is on the top of their to do list? One might think people with all this bibical talk might have bigger fish to fry. And yes, I know an orca is not a fish.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
I'm pretty sure the whales wouldn't reciprocate this line of thought. Maybe a pissed off orca who is in captivity but otherwise no.
Have you killed a teenager for yelling at their parents lately? Leviticus 20:9: "For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him."
Leviticus 19 is pretty straight-forward, Ten-Commandments-like stuff, but there are a few exceptions: not planting your field with two different seeds won’t come up a lot for the average city-dweller, but have you worn a cotton-poly shirt? Forbidden. (Lev 19:19) Haircuts and shaving are right out (Lev 19:27), as are tattoos (Lev 19:28), astrology (Lev 19:26) or fortune tellers (Lev 19:31).
Leviticus 12:1-8 declares that a woman is unclean for 33 days after giving birth to a boy and for 66 days after giving birth to a girl. It goes on to demand that certain animals must be offered as a burnt offering. Read Leviticus 23 to see the detailed regulations concerning “complete rest” on the Sabbath day, and the demands of animal sacrifice. Leviticus 18:19 forbids a husband from having sex with his wife during her menstrual period. Leviticus 19:19 forbids mixed breeding of various kinds of cattle, sowing various kinds of seeds in your field or wearing “a garment made from two kinds of material mixed together.”
For that matter, Leviticus 25:44 says that you may own slaves, as long as they’re from neighboring nations (which would be, for Americans, Mexico and Canada). On the other hand, Leviticus 21:20 says that you can’t approach the altar of God if you have a defect in your sight. I’m pretty sure that would include glasses.
Exodus tells us some interesting facts. For example, 21:7 tells you how to sell your daughter into slavery, while 35:2 tells you to kill someone who works on the Sabbath.
But they're involved in this very selective decision on which Bible verses to pay attention to.
"But in vain do they worship me, Teaching as their doctrines the precepts of men." (Matthew 15:9)
He also said that consuming the flesh of a pig upon the sabbath should get one the death penalty, (I'm paraphrasing of course), yet how many xians expound on the sins of homosexuality over the Sunday breakfast table with bits bacon and sausage stuck in their teeth? The Bible is like the Constitution to these people: A cudgel with which to bash their enemies. To be used when it supports them and ignored when it does not. I used to shut up the hard core xian at my work daily by pointing out that she was breaking several tenets even while decrying those around her breaking others.
Barack Obama: Change we can only imagine
that eating shellfish is an abomination. I wonder how many AFA death cultists spend their Saturday evenings - A.K.A. the Sabbath(tm) - chowing down at Red Lobster or Long John Silvers?
I think I'm turning Japanese, I think I'm turning Japanese, I really think so.....
but my guess is that if they sell anything emotely related to crustaceans at Long John's it is only ground up shells and can be found in the batter in which the catfish byproducts are deep fried.
“Why would anyone with a functioning brain believe this guy?”
Some guy with an eating disorder
what's really in those shrimp baskets at Long John's. Tofu maybe?
I think I'm turning Japanese, I think I'm turning Japanese, I really think so.....
When the AFA types get called on their forbidden pork and shrimp consumption, they point to the New Testament, where Paul says that all things are allowed to them.
If you don't wear glasses, you can always opt out of Christianity by quoting the Pauline verse about the church being without wrinkle or blemish. This gets you the reality comedy of listening to them trying to talk their way out of that verse and into your pocket.
Christianity, ultimately, is just another Middle-Eastern social pathology disguised as spirituality, a cult designed to rob non-Christians of property and jobs.
The orca should be let go to sea. It cannot reliably tolerate humans, who are ignorant and exasperating to it. I work for a living, with idiots, and can totally comprehend its position.
as sick as this is ... it still pales in comparison to the Christian groups advocating the beating of children.
I'm sure ysb will be here soon with the old video of a whale that had washed up on a beach dead and was blown up without a lot of thought as to what might ensue.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
Conference day
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Vmnq5dBF7Y
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
The Old Testament policy makes some sense as applied to breeding domestic animals. Docility is a desirable characteristic and in fact many domestic animals have been bred for this, including cattle. If an animal shows aggression it is not allowed to breed, and owners should not be encouraged to keep such animals.
Of course technically an "ox" is not a breeding animal - I wonder if this is a mistranslation. And orcas are not domestic animals.
...anyone who's spent much time on or around a farm knows that many domestic farm animals are actually not quite as docile as they might seem to be despite thousands of years of breeding. (If you don't believe it, read the books by James Herriot -- such as "All Creatures Great And Small" -- since he was a country vet and served many animals which were being kept for food as well as those kept as pets.) Most people who make a living from animal husbandry will tell you that bulls in particular should be taken seriously since they're capable of being aggressive and can potentially cause serious injury to a human being. This would have been even more true in Biblical times since the science of medicine was so limited as to be almost nonexistent -- a serious injury could easily be life-threatening.
In any event, in Biblical times, a person was not held liable the first time an animal in his possession killed someone because it could very easily have been an accident -- but even today, if the animal kills another person later on, the owner would probably be charged with criminal negligence for neglecting to take sufficient precautions to prevent the animal from harming anyone else.
Never trust anyone who insists that patriotism requires you to blindfold yourself with the flag.
Not a mistranslation, but somewhat anachronistic. The world 'ox' and 'oxen' in the bible refer to cattle in general. A 'cow' and a 'bull' are both oxen in that sense. The term ox also has a more modern meaning of castrated bull used for hauling etc, but 'ox' can refer to any animal in the genus Bos.
In fact it's pretty stupid that we lost the previous use of the term ox. After all, a 'bull' isn't a 'cow', any more than a 'stallion' is a 'mare'. And you can't have one 'cattle'. And a 'bovine' sounds just ridiculous.
Says the ancient cosmic code. "When an an animal does something to a man or woman, the animal simply did what comes natural to it, and it will continue to do whats natural, and the man or woman should know they were simply in the wrong place at the wrong time, and there's nothing that can be done to change what happened."
Says the ancient cosmic code. "when an elephant goes on a rampage, and stomps on his trainer after the trainer abused the elephant for 15 years, the elephant simply did what comes natural, which is protecting itself from abuse by humans."
Sounds about right to me.
he gets that stuff from the Animal Channel.
“Why would anyone with a functioning brain believe this guy?”
Some guy with an eating disorder
Is he able to channel Animal Channel aka, Animal Planet?
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
which is why he is tuned to the ancient Cosmic Code to pick up Animal Channel. It has not gone digital.
“Why would anyone with a functioning brain believe this guy?”
Some guy with an eating disorder
I know very well about his being teevee challenged so that's why I thought he might be mentally channeling that show.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
"When Tiny Dogs Attack."
http://www.petnutritionproducts.com/productim...
“Why would anyone with a functioning brain believe this guy?”
Some guy with an eating disorder
That's kind of close but Martini's Ricky is cuter. That looks like a hillbilly carrot. Martini's Ricky is gentle looking and has a sweet expression.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
I vote we stone The American Family Association ALL of them
If that doesn't sort them out, then we get the rocks out...
Barack Obama: Change we can only imagine
Reading their suggestion,
I think the members of The American Family Association are already stoned.
make a man speak in tongue
scream out his lungs
roll in the dung
and when the song is song
he moves up another rung
and the deaf and the dumb are the ones who stung.
MoViE
Clearly He is advocating tort reform by protecting the negligent owner of the ox from liability.
“Why would anyone with a functioning brain believe this guy?”
Some guy with an eating disorder
What's the point in denouncing a figment of people's imaginations?
... why the orca wasn't put down.
Does the orca understand the difference between water-breathing and air-breathing creatures? To its knowledge, a human is - at best - like it is: able to take in air and remain submerged for a period of time. Dolphins are approximately the same size as a human and seem to have no problem. Therefore, trainer-human must also be able to exist underwater.
This is not the same as an animal goring someone or a dog biting someone; we understand those to be the animal's primary weapon/threat response. An orca does not take its prey for a swim; it eats it.
So if it wanted to KILL the trainer, it would have bitten her.
If you watch BBC nature documentaries such the "The Blue Planet" or "The Life Of Mammals", you'll learn that drowning is in fact one of the ways in which they kill prey -- either by dragging a land-based mammal such as a seal pup into the water, or by using their weight to prevent a water-based mammal such as a whale calf of another species from surfacing so that it can breathe. There have also been recorded incidents in which two or more orcas have been observed "playing" with their food such as passing a seal pup back and forth through the air just like humans might throw a football -- possibly while the prey animal is still alive.
The fact remains that it's extremely unwise to regard an animal which was captured in the wild (as Tilikum apparently was) as a safe animal -- even if that animal has been relatively docile in captivity. In my honest opinion, Sea World is partially liable for Ms. Brancheau's death because when they purchased Tilikum from his previous owners, it was with the knowledge that he had killed one of his trainers and they were told not to put him in a show. By choosing to ignore this caveat -- even though Ms. Brancheau was considered one of their most skilled trainers -- it seems to me that they could legally be held responsible for her death.
Never trust anyone who insists that patriotism requires you to blindfold yourself with the flag.
People just don't get it do they? Just because humans beat these poor animals into submission, doesn't mean they're tame. Lions, tigers, "Killer" whales - they have millions of years of evolution which conditions them to do what they do. All these creatures should be released to their natural environments where they can still be research subjects while continuing to live a normal existence. I've been to Sea World, and I've always felt disgust at these magnificent creatures being forced to do all sorts of goofy, unnatural tricks for the meathead tourists in the audience. As for the AFA and stoning - well- those people don't even live in the same century we do, so whatever batshit crazy idea comes out of their mouths is no surprise to me. Personally, I think these bible thumper types are the ones who should be confined to cages.
If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're gonna get selfish, ignorant leaders.
George Carlin
These Christopaths will take or make up any reason to kill. They must love to kill. How many times have you heard some whacked out murderer say that God told him/her to? And they never ask the SOB why.
Generally speaking I don't trust anyone making over 150K a year.
There was that one mother years back who drowned her children one by one in the bathtub saying that god told her to do it.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
to the Christian fight angainst TEH gay AGENDA. There is a reason Exodus spoke about killing goring Oxen. Obviously this whale is gay.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nrbpAm2BiE&fe...
“Why would anyone with a functioning brain believe this guy?”
Some guy with an eating disorder
feel the same way about those without healthcare insurance but they won't come right out and say they should be stoned to death.
Oh yeah, like the clowns in Exodus were not a bunch of backwards sons of bitches. And these jokers at American Family Association want to carry on something that happened thousands of years ago before there was the internet? For real? The mind truly boggles.
Let my people blog?
Oh Lord have mercy on these stupid Christians. "KILLER" whale implys there is something the diver should have been paying attention to. Maybe something the christian should be paying attention to also. Now we KILL the whale for our sins? Have mercy on us Lord. Christians should read the New Testament if they are for Christ.
Such as the ones which prohibit eating pork and shellfish? Or the one about not wearing clothes of blended fibers? Or killing any woman who's not a virgin on her wedding night? For some reason, I very much doubt it...but even if they were, it still would not necessarily give them the right to impose their beliefs on people who may not share them. In any case, people who belong to groups like the American Family Association are eager to criticize other people for their supposed moral relativism and cherry-picking -- but they can't see that they're guilty of exactly the same thing themselves! If you're going to cite Old Testament law as the basis for your belief, then any inability or refusal on your part to obey the same laws undercuts your own argument and proves that you're nothing but a hypocrite.
Never trust anyone who insists that patriotism requires you to blindfold yourself with the flag.
They have no problem with ignoring the inconvenient biblical proscriptions like the eating of pork and shellfish or the blended fabrics thing. But I know from personal experience that the death cultists have no problem philosophically with the concept of punishing women for their sexual indiscretions. That's really what the anti abortion movement is all about. But even then they're perfectly happy to make exceptions when the poor misguided girl is one of their own. There is no sense of irony in their tiny minds that Sarah Palin's daughter can be held up as a paragon of teen-aged heroism while the pregnant kid down the block is labeled a knocked up slut.
I think I'm turning Japanese, I think I'm turning Japanese, I really think so.....
We don't need to build more prisons , we need more insane asylums .
Insanity , it is what it is , there is no understanding it .
To those who want to follow the rule of scripture and think our laws should be based according to the old testament there already are such places. Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran, Someinsaneoldreligeonstan.
I’m sure you will all fit right in, there are flights daily, please don't write.
...that whale doesn't look anything like an ox! Case closed.
... the answer is to shut down SeaWorld and other aquatic prisons; celebrate, cherish and protect wildlife around the world; and isolate and marginalize your deluded ilk, who'd just as soon see the world go up in flames. Guess you haven't heard that the Bible is nothing more than a collection of parables, myth and fairy tales.
The (figurative) hell with all of you.
BID
I wish people would take a little more open of a view on "aquatic prisons"
Do we close all zoos too?
Are you willing to raise and slaughter your own meat so we can close the factory farm prisons as well?
Parks for wildlife are not all bad. I brought up the example of Marineland in my comment above. Also the San Diego Wild Animal Park is a very natural, open setting. I visited a zoo in Salzburg that was a long sheer cliff.
Don't think of everything as a cage with bars on it. Each animal there soley for the entertainment of people.
Also, did you know many of these animals were rescued from the wild and could not be released again?
Where I draw the line is if the environment is pretty close to the natural environment and does the animal have room to move.
To me room to move means getting up to speed and maintaining it for a reasonable amount of time without running into anything.
Whales can dive really deep. They can move pretty fast. But not in even a giant aquarium. They would need many miles in all directions to even come close to something like their natural environment.
Zoos are the same for most animals.
Sanctuaries and parks are much better although I'm sure some are just as bad.
If an animal can't do what it would do in its natural habitat then it should be removed from these man made prisons.
Funny thing is that I know of a person where I live that found a new born moose, still with what I assume was the placenta, stranded on a nature trail. He took it to his home, fenced in acres of his property, and paid an expert to come from Quebec to show him how to feed and care for it.
This young moose sat at his feet on his patio like a dog would do. Our ministry of natural resources came and legally took the moose away from him. Why is this same treatment not provided to animals which do not necessarily choose to be confined?
Do you eat meat or dairy? Did the animal choose to give it to you?
I agree about the larger animals. It was my thought everyday when I saw Corky and Orky in their three story aquarium. But not all animals in captivity fit that circumstance, not all marine or land parks are for the purpose of entertainment either.
I feel pretty guilty/hypocritical about that.
The "counsel" of my religious tradition (Foodoo, that is) demands that those righteous enough to judge the beast be allowed to fist-fight it. One at a time, please; line up here on the right.
Maybe if we didn't keep animals in captivity purely for human entertainment things like this wouldn't happen. And as Jesus reputedly said 'Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.'
time for some bible burnings.
...should be stoned for killing my buzz.
"He wrote this book here and the book says ; He made us all to be just like him So, if we're dumb, then god is dumb and maybe even a little ugly on the side".
Frank Zappa
that you avoid these strange people if you are, for example, a sexually active single female. Or wear armor.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
Or a young boy.
Any woman who goes to work on her period should be stoned to death.
Marijuana has never killed anyone.
Much Much More at Link !
When will government of the people, by the politicians, for the corporations perish from this Earth?
Not soon enough!
I had to send that one to Facebook.
Bookmarked for future smiting of religious loons.
As much as I like to pile on these pre-Enlightenment buffoons, I clicked on the link and I don't see anything advocating actually stoning the orca. This guy *quotes* the Bible and *that* passage mentions stoning, but he is advocating putting the orca down. (Probably with a shotgun that he is now legally allowed to carry to amusement parks.)
I was about to Facebook link this, but after reading the article, I won't. I don't agree with this guy, but I don't want to misrepresent either. There's plenty of real-life lunacy to deal with anyway.
...that you are also to MURDER your disobedient child. How many of these religious nutbag fucktards have done THAT,I wonder.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eNxgVKSnow
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIaORknS1Dk
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Religion is a plague that destroys everything it touches. Christianity and Islam are two of the worst offenders, but there are plenty of others. This kind of nutty idiocy is only possible because of the disease that is superstitious nonsense.
Now, in all fairness, not everyone is as deeply disturbed as others. Some people are barely sick at all, while people (and I use the term loosely) like this are very, very sick. None the less, the poison is still there, and it does influence people.
Yeah, I know, I'm an asshole for saying this, but someone needs to.
Democracy is the road to socialism. ~ Karl Marx
Religious nut cases.
words to substitute for their own hearts' and heads' messages.
Cultists is all they are.
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
They also quote some part of the bible that says god gave them dominion over the earth and the animals and they are allowed to treat them anyway they want and that's why god also created ted nugent.
it also say in the bible that woman who arent virgins when they get married shall be stoned as well?
gotta love the picking and choosing these people do
If my dog killed someone, or even bit someone severely, I'm sure my neighbors would be clamoring for me to have the dog destroyed.
This whale has killed twice now. OK, the people talking about biblical stoning - that's ridiculous. I'm assuming the whale can't be released because of it's dependence on humans - but as it's now killed humans twice, I think it should be killed. It's irresponsible to do anything else.
who in their right mind would try to make show ponies out of them, or blame them when they live up to their names and kill someone?
I feel for the trainer and her family, but if you make your living from exploiting a vicious wild creature, you don't have any room to complain when that beast turns on you and takes your life.
Instead of putting the whale down, at least turn it loose and give it a chance to fight for it's own life.
Never exposed to the Bible and at the age of 20 taken to Barnes & Noble and handed this book they would piss themselves with laughter.
The Bible is the most unbelievable bunch of bullshit ever written. Who could ever imagine a book replete with giants, dinosaurs, sex with space aliens, men swallowed by whales surviving to tell about it which, obviously didn't occur in the case of the the Sea World Trainer, people living beyond 1000 years, an Ark populated by two or seven of every species on Earth with no mention as to how they were collected, segregated predator from prey, fed or where they shit or how this small group of castaways incestuously repopulated a whole planet and laws against dwarfs or those with damaged testicles. I could go on for hours like this...
Ask any Christian, that if Adam and Eve are the first humans where did all the other people come from when they were expelled from the Garden of Eden?
The Bible is a written record of oral fairy tales told by cave dwellers and sheep herders. Anyone that believes this book is a jackass and should be stoned for being so damn stupid.
Frank Zappa - Make A Jazz Noise Here
The "stoning" to death is an indicator of RJ Rushdoony's call for Biblical punishments by stoning. Christian Reconstructionists believe that all law, including the US Constitution, should based on Biblical Law, including the Ten Commandments. The fact that AFA would call for stoning of the Orca based on the bible indicates how deeply embedded Christian Reconstructionism is in the organization how willing they are now to reveal that fact.
They were not making a joke. They are trying to get the public used to the idea of Biblical punishments. They call for death by stoning for: cursing one's parents, adultery, homosexuality, a woman for having an abortion, a doctor for performing an abortion, etc.
The AFA statement has a greater significance than you gave it.
"Let he who is without fin cast the first stone!", I say.
okay seriously? i think nowadays people take religion too seriously. this animal was taken from the wild in vancouver and not by sea world. he is by nature a wild animal and even the captive breds are going to display natural insticts. this animal has yes displayed violent tendancies but stoning this animal? one of GOD's creatures? ya'll are just nutbags who have no lives. i love going to sea world to see these animals because i will never be able to afford to see them in the wild. ya'll religious nuts need to tone it down a notch and have fun dealing with PETA...they're just as crazy as you.
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