Say What? Sebelius Touts Public Option on 'This Week', Throws It Under the Bus on CNN.
Oh, the Republicans have been having a field day with this mantra - that employers would shunt their employees into the public plan. But they're really upset for the same reason Sebelius mentioned as a positive: Job lock. Above all else, the Republican party stands for cheap, disposable labor with no rights or protections. God forbid you should have a public option - you could up and leave your job anytime you wanted!
In the meantime, a White House staffer sent this statement to health care activists late this afternoon:
Nothing has changed. POTUS has always said that what is essential is that health insurance reform must lower costs, ensure that there are affordable options for all Americans and increase choice and competition. He believes the public option is the best way to achieve those goals.
From This Week, with Jake Tapper:
TAPPER: OK, I'll -- I'll take that as a "yes" and then we'll move on. The president often -- and he did last night in Colorado -- says to the American people that, if they like their doctor, they can keep their doctor. If they like their insurance plan, they can keep their insurance plan. But according to the Congressional Budget Office, if a public plan, if a public option is introduced, at least 2 million Americans will be switched by their employer from a private plan to the public plan.
Now, that doesn't get into the whole issue of employers dropping health care coverage in general and all the people that will be added to the rolls, and I understand that. But how can the administration make the promise that if you like your insurance plan you can keep it, when CBO and other analysts estimate that some people will be switched from private to public?
SEBELIUS: Well, I think, Jake, if you -- if you think about a marketplace option and new plans being created in Toledo, Ohio, or in California or in Florida, the network of doctors is likely to be pretty identical. A lot of plans exist in the same marketplace, and doctors are part of a variety of networks. So the idea that you would keep your own doctor is highly likely.
The other thing about the -- the new marketplace is, I think, the president is eager to stabilize the employer marketplace. Small- business owners right now are dropping coverage because they can't any longer afford it. They can't stay in the market.
With the new tax incentives that are part of health reform, small-business owners would be encouraged to actually stabilize their insurance plans, to offer coverage to their employees. They'd have tax credits. They'd have some help for the low-income employees to be able to afford the coverage.
So I think, if anything, it wouldn't dismantle the present market. It would actually help to provide a more stable private marketplace, which right now serves 180 million Americans very well. People like those plans. They want to make sure that if they have employer-based coverage that they like, they can keep it. And this would actually encourage and help employers to stay in the market.
On the other hand, if you lose your job, right now you lose your coverage. And -- and the new reform plan would make sure that you had an affordable option even if you lost your job, if you wanted to go out on your own and start your new business, which lots of people want to do, you wouldn't lose your health coverage.
So it would have some choices for consumers to make so they wouldn't have the kind of job lock that we see now across America.
But she backs off on the public option on CNN's State of the Union today:
WASHINGTON (AP) - President Barack Obama's health secretary is suggesting the White House is ready to accept nonprofit insurance cooperatives instead of a government-run public option in a health overhaul plan. A Republican senator says that is worth looking at.
Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius says Obama still believes there should be choice and competition" in the health insurance market - but that a public option is "not the essential element."
Obama has been pressing for the government to run a health insurance organization to help cover the nation's nearly 50 million uninsured. But he had not seen a not-for-profit co-op as sufficient to offer consumers choice and competition that would bring down the costs of private insurance.
Sebelius spoke on CNN's "State of the Union."
Here is a clip of Rachel Maddow on Meet the Press slimmed down to under 5 minutes. She kicked butt.
http://progressnotcongress.org/?p=2555
Thanks for that clip!!
Democracy is too important to be entrusted to politicians.
Rise Up!
Protest!
Does any of this do , they still tell us to suck it up and forget about it.. The public option was never a serious thought anyway and we know from the start they kicked the people from the single tax payer out on the streets..
Do you still believe this is a democrat party whic give a s... about you or me...
Bush could do better then this...
No. 1: Increase the capital gains and dividends taxes for higher-income taxpayers (*)
Increase capital gains and dividends taxes from 15 to 20 percent for those making more than $250,000 (couples) or $200,000
No. 2: Eliminate all oil and gas tax loopholes (*)
"Eliminating special tax breaks for oil and gas companies: including repealing special expensing rules, foreign tax credit benefits, and manufacturing deductions for oil and gas firms."
No. 3: Eliminate capital gains taxes for small businesses and start-ups (***)(not as much as said)
"Barack Obama understands that small businesses are the engines of our economy, and he will eliminate all capital gains taxes on investments in small and start-up firms."
No. 4: Extend child tax credits and marriage-penalty fixes (*)
Will extend aspects of the Bush tax cuts such as child credit expansions and changes to marriage bonuses and penalties.
No. 5: Expand the earned income tax credit (***) (Did not include workers without children)
Expand the earned income tax credit for workers without children and taxpayers with more than three children. Equalize thresholds for married filers and head of household filers.
No. 6: Create an Advanced Manufacturing Fund to invest in peer-reviewed manufacturing processes
Will create an Advanced Manufacturing Fund to identify and invest in the most compelling advanced manufacturing strategies. The Fund will have a peer-review selection and award process based on the Michigan 21st Century Jobs Fund, a state-level initiative that has awarded over $125 million to Michigan businesses with the most innovative proposals to create new products and new jobs in the state."
No. 7: Double funding for the Manufacturing Extension Partnership, a program that encourages manufacturing efficiency
"The Manufacturing Extension Partnership (MEP) works with manufacturers across the country to improve efficiency, implement new technology and strengthen company growth. This highly-successful program has engaged in more than 350,000 projects across the country and in 2006 alone, helped create and protect over 50,000 jobs. But despite this success, funding for MEP has been slashed by the Bush administration. Barack Obama and Joe Biden will double funding for the MEP so its training centers can continue to bolster the competitiveness of U.S. manufacturers."
No. 8: Include environmental and labor standards in trade agreements
"He will use trade agreements to spread good labor and environmental standards around the world"
No. 9: Oppose agreements like CAFTA (the Central American Free Trade Agreement) unless it has environmental and labor protections
"He will use trade agreements to spread good labor and environmental standards around the world and stand firm against agreements like the Central American Free Trade Agreement (CAFTA) that fail to live up to those important benchmarks."
No. 10: Expand the child and dependent care credit
Expand and make refundable the child and dependent care credit
No. 11: Require publicly traded financial partnerships to pay the corporate income tax
Require publicly traded financial partnerships to pay the corporate income tax.
No. 12: Create an international tax haven watch list
Create an international tax haven watch list of countries that do not share information returns with the United States.
No. 14: Close loopholes in the corporate tax deductibility of CEO pay
Congress has set rules regarding the tax deductibility of the salaries of CEOs, but forms of non-salary compensation have become popular. Obama would look at revamping definitions of compensation
No. 15: Create a foreclosure prevention fund for homeowners ( ** Kept)
Create a $10 billion fund to help homeowners refinance or sell their homes. "The Fund will not help speculators, people who bought vacation homes or people who falsely represented their incomes."
No. 16: Increase minority access to capital
"Strengthen Small Business Administration programs that provide capital to minority-owned businesses, support outreach programs that help minority business owners apply for loans, and work to encourage the growth and capacity of minority firms."
No. 17: Require economic justification for tax cuts
Adopt the economic substance doctrine, a policy that states that tax cuts must have significant economic justification, as a federal law.
No. 18: Provide option for a pre-filled-out tax form
Will direct the Internal Revenue Service to "give taxpayers the option of a pre-filled tax form to verify, sign and return to the IRS or online. This will eliminate the need for Americans to hire expensive tax preparers and to gather information that the federal government already has on file."
No. 19: Create a mortgage interest tax credit for non-itemizers
Create a refundable tax credit equal to 10 percent of mortgage interest for nonitemizers, up to a maximum credit of $800.
No. 20: Make permanent the Research & Development tax credit (*)
The Research & Development tax credit and the renewable energy production tax credit are intended to spur innovation in the private sector, but the tax credits have expiration dates under current law. Obama would make them permanent
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promi...
None
I believe liberals and progressives have been sold out, as well. But...
Bush could do better then this...
Let's be clear: Bush couldn't find his ass with both hands.
Much of Obama's base has been sold out. A sellout is not much better than a McCain first term. Face it folks, Obama is a Blue Dog Republicrat
thanks....Rachel is awesome.
Yes, Rachel Maddow certainly kicked Dick Armey's Ass Today!!!!!
Go Rachel!
"War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength" .. George Orwell
to her...She gaffed on CNN..which has caused a media firestorm but call/ email the Whitehouse and Congress--tell them they were ELECTED TO GET THE VOTES FOR WHAT THE PEOPLE WANT not to weak knee the HC Corps position with a Co-OP--that only has worked for rural electric companies.
Conrad # 1.800.224.7776 Congress 1.800828.0498...
but it was cut off way too soon, guess that's what I get for not sitting down to watch the show. Sorry, I had stuff to do.
Today's Meet The Press Show (entire!) and the *bonus* after-show chat between Gregory and Maddow are on The Rachel Maddow Show homepage.
Democracy is too important to be entrusted to politicians.
Rise Up!
Protest!
thank you to Rachel Maddow.
THIS is what a true journalist does when confronted with liars, obfuscators, and know-nothings who contradict their own public statements in order to confuse the ignorant and half-asleep. THIS is why David Gregory has absolutely no fucking business being on television with people who make policy: he either can't keep up, or, worse, WON'T.
Maddow came prepared, and Dick Armey looked like a flat-footed liar.
Absolutely none of which will help us get HR 676 passed, but at least someone's swinging the bat--not on our side, but on the side of the god-damned FACTS.
Six Lobbyists Per Lawmaker Work on Health Overhaul
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206011...
Are you Really Surprised that the Corporate Democrats have pulled the plug on the Public Option?
If you are surprised that the DLC-Corporate, Republican-Reagan-Lite Democrats are giving the finger to the public option and single payer idea than you have been under a rock for the past 20 Years.
The Democrats are NOT Liberal or Progressive unless they are bull-crapping you at election time to get your vote.....
Wake Up People....And I also say SHAME on all of you for drinking the Obama, pro-Capitalist Kool-Aid......
Obama represents Capitalism and Capitalism first and foremost. Or have you also misssed this reality as well? Kathleen Sebelius like Summers, Geithner, Emanuel, Axelrod, Jarett, and Biden are all backstoppers in ensuring the neoliberal global economic order remains firmly in place as the democratic process continues to diminish for the benefit of corporate tyranny, of which the major media networks are also a major part of, as well.
AMEN!!!
they want to get right on prosecuting the Bush Crime Family for its war crimes. Once upon a time there lived a bear in an enchanted forest that needed a potty...
so they stop contradicting themselves
...he uses big words like 'particularly' and 'delicatessen.' -- Jack
> They need to start using note cards
> so they stop contradicting themselves
I give the Republicans huge credit for one thing. While the Democrats are talking out of all seven or eight sides of their mouth, the Republicans are united on message. Only one message comes from them. In the form of a "Theme With Variations" perhaps, but it is still ONE. SINGLE. MESSAGE.
I am getting so dizzy from following the Democrats and their medley that I am going to close my ears to anything they have to say. Maybe if they can get on topic with one single message, in time they MAY earn the right to my ear, but NOT AS LONG as they are handling the debate the way they are.
The Thinker From Iowa
thats not a good thing for the republicans. are you telling me that all the people of the republican party think with one mind...wait, that's exactly what your saying, because they do.
here's a link for you to read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy
All Republicans? No. 60%? A majority? Yes. They are VERY focused on the WRONG message.
I've been looking all over the HHS websites and can't find an actual e-mail address for her. I'd like to comment on her remark that a public option isn't essential. I know it's not essential for her; she's being paid a lot of money and undoubtedly has excellent government-controlled health insurance.
This is so discouraging...
I dont think the message was hers. Probably directly from Rahm's mouth with Obama's consent.
In a single payer plan ALL employees would be switched from their private plan (if they have one) to the public plan. And once everyone saw how much cheaper it was, and how their weren't "network" restrictions, and how you couldn't be dropped for pre-existing conditions, etc., etc., EVERYONE would join.
EVERYONE would join
now that's scary.
lobbyists could lose their jobs.
Single payer and the public option are not at all the same.
The public option as recently described would not allow you to change.
Only a very limited number would be permitted on the flim flam public option.
statusquObama, change you can only pretend in
HR 676 ("Medicare For All") is THE Single Payer Plan that WILL be brought to the floor of the House this Fall.
Contact your CongressPerson and tell them to CoSponsor HR 676.
Read this Summary of HR 676:
Is your CongressPerson on this List of CoSponsors?
Democracy is too important to be entrusted to politicians.
Rise Up!
Protest!
HR-676. I hear that there are now 181 cosponsors?
What's the point of insurance reform if the reform is a huge corporate welfare check to the private insurance companies? The public option is the only way people can get affordable health care without a large amount of the cost going to CEOs, shareholders and Republican campaign coffers.
No public option will make Bush's corporate welfare check to Big Pharma look like chump change.
Flim Flam and more flim flam.
To hell with the 'Public Option'.
It was flim flam from day one.
Nader at Commondreams on Single Payer
"Now Make Me Do It"
here
statusquObama, change you can only pretend in
Big Finance and Big Corporations we might progress . . .
We're stuck in a rut constantly jabbing at politicians and media personalities, demographic groups, while these guys pull off unimaginable economic and social crimes.
Big Finance and Big Corporations we might progress . . ."
but unfortunately, most of those Murkins who still have jobs work for those concerns.
And as Upton Sinclair so preciently reminded us almost a century ago: "It is difficult to get someone to notice what keeping their job requires that they ignore..."
corperate america wins again?
don't let the corporation hold this power over the people. The people have firemen, schools, libraries, and now they shall have medical insurance! don't let the corporation hold your health over your head. The corporations can suck it up. corporations aren't even people!
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
Couldn't agree more.
Thom Hartmann describes the history of the Fourteenth Amendment--created at the end of the Civil War to grant basic rights to freed slaves--and how it has been used by lawyers representing corporate interests to extend additional rights to businesses far more frequently than to freed slaves. Prior to 1886, corporations were referred to in U.S. law as "artificial persons." but in 1886, after a series of cases brought by lawyers representing the expanding railroad interests, the Supreme Court ruled that corporations were "persons" and entitled to the same rights granted to people under the Bill of Rights. Since this ruling, America has lost the legal structures that allowed for people to control corporate behavior.
As a result, the largest transnational corporations fill a role today that has historically been filled by kings. They control most of the world's wealth and exert power over the lives of most of the world's citizens. Their CEOs are unapproachable and live lives of nearly unimaginable wealth and luxury. They've become the rudder that steers the ship of much human experience, and they're steering it by their prime value--growth and profit and any expense--a value that has become destructive for life on Earth. This new feudalism was not what our Founders--Federalists and Democratic Republicans alike--envisioned for America.
Wikipedia: Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad, 118 U.S. 394 (1886) was a United States Supreme Court case dealing with taxation of railroad properties. The case is most notable for the obiter dictum statement that juristic persons are entitled to protection under the Fourteenth Amendment. ...
See also the article at the Rat Haus.
Democracy is too important to be entrusted to politicians.
Rise Up!
Protest!
Thanks for the link
put. Most succinct and well written summary I've read yet.
Only a Consitutional amendment or a finding by a future Supreme court that the 1886 supreme Court was in error can reverse this. You can pretty much trace the beginning of the fall of government of, by and for the People in the US to this decision.
DO NOT abandon the idea of giving Americans the option of government-run insurance. Health care does not fit a free market model. There is no marginal rate of substitution for a heart attack. I'm only 52 but I can't wait until I',m 65.
and had to go 4 years without insurance because my employer couldn't afford premiums anymore. I turned 65 and signed up for Medicare advantage and found out the doctors wouldn't contract with the plan. A total of 5 years without healthcare insurance and I was lucky, no serious health issues.
that the whole health-care imbroglio is a stratagem to divert public attention from the continued, wholesale looting of the financial system by Goldman-Sachs sachems and factotems, and the increasingly murky ways that Treasury and the Fed are discussing to re-regulate it (yeah, right)...both inside the govt and on Wall Street...
It has worked beautifully so far.
The Corporate Feudal Overlords have $23.7 trillion in pledges, ten times the health care sector total.
They are in fat city.
The same (though fewer and thus even more concentrated) Banksters have their same phony balance sheets primed to blow up again.
The plan is to get all of the money.
statusquObama, change you can only pretend in
The Recession is Over!
Mike Whitney here
Related links in comment here
statusquObama, change you can only pretend in
I completely agree and said the financial crash was "no accident" on the Mike Malloy Radio program last fall.
Build it up and knock it down and rebuild. No matter which side of the equation the money masters are on they always profit. Always
of shock doctrine economic warfare conducted against the nation. The advance of neofeudalism continues.
They will not get mine.
political strategists are the permanent power that runs America today.
Dick Durbin reminds us, “They own the place.”
So how does that change?
I'll work hard for single payer. I'll support a strong public option. I won't even extend my dialing finger for anything less. I might extend another finger though...
Barack Obama: Change we can only imagine
.
Gibbs: White House still supports a public option
http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/08/16/gibbs-...
Option" here:
http://www.rr.com/news/politics/article/9009/...
We have elected a President who is NOT willing to fight for the welfare of the American taxpayers.
He has allowed big corporate banker boyz to rob our treasury and now he has allowed the major corporations to screw us on health care reform.
And he's off on vacation now!!!!! How sweet!!!!
WE HAVE BEEN HAD.
I'd like to hear what John Amato has to say about all this.
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
The treasury has been robbed ever since the monetary policy was turned over to the Federal Reserve Bank. I hope the populist fires can build enough force to blow the roof off(figuratively speaking) the Federal Reserve and destroy this evil institution.
The fed needs to be abolished and those functions that it performs returned to the government. Along with that, the fractional reserve monetary system must not only be abolished, but made illegal, either by statute or by Constitutional amendment.
In the meantime, it would behoove all state to establish their own banking systems that exist independent of the reserve.
...here she is giving immunity to vaccine makers who are making swine flu vaccines...
In 1976, during the last swine flu scare, thousands of people who took the vaccination filed claims because they suffered side effects from the vaccine. Eventually, some 25 people died from the vaccine itself, while the flu only killed one person.
Since the 1980s, the government has protected vaccine makers from potential lawsuits, especially over childhood vaccines. There has been a movement recently where many parents and doctors claim the vaccinations that contain thimerasol (mercury) are causing autism.
Cathleen Sebelius...protecting corporate America...
http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/276192
audit-prosecute-incarcerate
I would love to be able to get a single message from the dems, these people either don't communicate enough or they are all making it up as they go, because one part of the administration says the public option is not essential then the administration says the public option is the best way to achieve reform - my message to the White House at this point: Will you please make up your mind, it's killing me here!!!
to hear then do what you want to do.
I missed the two other topics on this and they are too long now.
regardless of how many articles address that fact.
THIS CANNOT STAND!!! I cannot put into words how angry I am about this. I hope you all are just as angry. Do what you can to let them know you will not accept it. Please. This would be like Abraham Lincoln acquiescing to the fuckers who said we cannot fight the jokers who did not want to give up slavery. Can you even imagine what he went through to do what he did and the Democrats now are going to walk away with their tails between their legs about this???? Oh God Dman It!!
ALL Americans to risk it and shut this country down for as long as it took to purge this country of the criminal elements ruining this country from their ivory towers I'd let everyone know.
I would do it too.
God Damn It!!!
down the road, and so certain that nothing can reverse their progress in turning this nation into a corporatist, tyranical, neofeudal fiefdom that the only thing that is going to create change is taking it to the streets, in the millions. That is not going to happen unless countless millions are touched by hardships that are so severe that they cannot be rationalized away. The problem, is that these guys have mastered the art of piece meal spoon-feeding of the collective screwing they are doling out, so that our collective fall is happening through a process of slow habituation. I really think that that is why we were manipulated into having only two coices for the Dem candidates: an uber rightwing and hardline corporatist in the name of HRC or the fallback candidate in the name of BHO; same policies as before, just a change in rhetoric, because we natives were getting restless. Neocons/neoliberals..they're all the same. They both want to establish a global system of feudalism, where the whole of the world's population are their serfs and indentured servants.
In the long run, they are going to fail...after coming close to achieving it. Their goals and the premises upon which their goal are based are self-defeating.
Might I suggest that you send this outstanding comment verbatim to the white house? They need to hear a whole lot more from people who feel this way. When you contact them, you will be put on their email list, as if you were a supporter - which, gives you plenty of opportunities to give them a serious ass-chewing by return email every time they send you something touting what a great job they're doing. I do this routinely, and never tire of reminding them that they are setting themselves up on a one-way path to being a single termer.
It is up to US to pressure our CongressPersons to support HR 676.
Obama's been negotiating with Max Fuckus in the Senate Finance Committee. For one, HealthCare Reform is NOT the business of the Finance Committee. For two, the HOUSE initiates legislation which the Senate then considers.
So .. what are WE to do in the midst of this confusion?
SEIZE THE MOMENT !!!
INSIST that your CongressPerson support HR 676 "Medicare For All."
Democracy is too important to be entrusted to politicians.
Rise Up!
Protest!
this country wouldn't be in the jam it's in now.
Yup, they stood around for eight years and let George Bush and Dick Cheney rape and pillage our country and they still cannot see. I wish I had one of those asshole in front of me right now.
when the Cons strong armed their way into the presidency by 'whatever means necessary" that was pretty much all she wrote.
The Cons got it all they didn't even care if they won this last time they own the machinery now.
I never thought about it quite that way before. Just, wow.
Yeah - and if all the NAYSAYERS would get off their butts and do something instead of just whining IT COULD CHANGE TOO.
Democracy is too important to be entrusted to politicians.
Rise Up!
Protest!
Yup.
"For one, HealthCare Reform is NOT the business of the Finance Committee."
I say, when you are as broke as America is...You can be damn sure that it is!!!
audit-prosecute-incarcerate
SinglePayer HealthCare for All WOULD have a dramatic impact on the financial mess.
BUT it is not the business of the Finance Committee. The Finance Committee should be holding hearings, indicting the Bankers and the Health Insurers for FRAUD.
THAT would be constructive.
Democracy is too important to be entrusted to politicians.
Rise Up!
Protest!
Max Fucksus. I hope that goes viral.
BTW, I did just that. My Rep (a Republican) read my letter and gave a very thoughtful reply, which absolutely stunned me, and signaled that he is studying HR-676 and thinking very hard about it. The points I brought up is that:
1. The current system, while consuming cash equivalent to 1/6th of the economy does not constitute a legitimate sector. It is an artiface that only consumes and parsitizes wealth that was created by others, and thus cannot be legitimately called a "segment of the economy", as Obama has done. It is a one way street into a black whole, that does nothing but harm the nation.
2. HR-676 is the least expensive and only sustainable way to go about it.
3. The current system and all other proposed "solutions" still place a burden on american businesses, even with their tax credits.etc. - because they must still compete in a global marketplace where all of their competitors (now including China) provide government administered health care for their respective nations. Our competitors do not shoulder the burdens of providing employer health insurance. this puts them at a competitive disadvantage and directly impacts our national balance of trade.
4. All other "solutions" are unsustainable, in the short and long term.
5. The entire health insurance industry represents about 447,000 workers. Many (most) could be put to work as government employees to administer the wholly government run single-payer system. HR-676 also provides funds for retraining effected health insurance industry employees.
6. All other "solutions" are a massive transfer of the People's asset into the hands of a criminally corrupt sector. All it will do is privatize obscene profits and socialize their losses. As a tax payer I am absolutely unwilling to fund such a thing and will take revenge in the voting booth on anyone who allows such a travesty to take place. As this is what Obama's plan would do, I asked him to not tosupport it, or any other plan that did not put the American People first, ahead of corporate profits or privatization of the American People's money that they pay in taxes.
&. Sais I'm a big believer in profits, but there are some instances where profit isis unacceptable: the military (no mercenary armies), police, fire, national highway system, pulic education, courts, law enforcement, and so on. Healthcare delivery must be added to that list, because we have decades of incontrovertible proof that running it as for a profit system, with layers oif parsitical middle men hs only harmed the nation.
I got a two page letter in return, that I think he - and not a staffer - actually wrote, saying that he was considering HR-676 and had already given much thought to the points I brought up. Totally blew me away, as I was expecting a the typical GOP form letter so favored by his predecessor, one that politely told me to go screw myself and would then go on to list the entire litany of Republican talking points and manipulativre but totally transparent lies.
Maybe there's hope.
It would sure be nice to show them how upset we are. Take to the streets!!!!
it's way more then that.
Evet that is why I am soooooooo pissed off. Because it is sooooo much, so so much more that health care.
...you will be confused for a teabagger and labeled a racist...(trust me) I know....
audit-prosecute-incarcerate
Many teabaggers have a legitimate beef about the bailouts, but their anger is misguided in singling out Democrats. Both parties have effectively been infiltrated with enough greedy corporatists to slowly unravel every last protection of consumers forcing us all into corporate feudalism. I don't condone any behaviour shutting down Town Halls and fools who are all to willing to go out and cause distractions while failing to see they are being played by the very people they should be directing their anger towards.
knowingly, willfully and stubbornly unresponsive to the will of the People, from whose soveriegn will and consent they derive their sole authority to exist and function, and when the integrity of the electoral system can be throoughly manipulated at will, it really narrows the options that are available for straightening out messes like the gigantic clusterfuck we've now got. By narrowing our choices, they are more-or-less pushing us towards either accepting the effective death of this nation as a free and liberal representative democracy or eventually taking things to the streets. It scares the crap out of me that I can see another civil war/second revolution erupting because of this. Either that, or we go out with a whimper, last person here just shut the lights off.
I am sooooo depressed! I just don't know what to do.
one of them. As difficult as it is.
I've actually been sitting her bawling....
Big baby.
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
That you are really weeping for our children's future---after all, they and the currently uninsured are the ones that ultimately pay for the inaction and cowardice of today.
"We will find fulfillment not in the goods that we have, but in the good we can do for each other."
Robert F. Kennedy
isn't it. That wasn't a question.
Captain Kangaroo,
Please do not be depressed. I used to get that way over politics until I realized a few facts...and one of those realities is that the Democrats lack political will and have no guts to stand up for true liberal ideals and the programs which go along with that certain vision.
Bill Clinton ended "welfare as we know it" and he also wanted to reform Medicare but never go to it. The Democrats did flirt with privatizing Social Security in the 1990s as well but they never got to that it either.....
I urge you to read literature on the Democratic Leadership Council and understand that the Democrats so-called "progressive and liberal" rhetoric is just that.....
The media misleads America when it claims the Democrats are "liberal or progressive." The Democrats are centrists and conservative for the most part and have few true liberals or progressives in that party. As a result, liberal/progressive ideals do not move the needle too far.
There are other corporate-like think tanks associated with the Democratic Party as well.....
Take care.
Yeah. It is just so shitty to see the country go down in flames. I'm going to leave the country.
Yeah, I'd like to move to England
But too many foreigners.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
...come join the teabaggers!
...just bring an antiwar sign or something.
...you'll fit in just fine!
audit-prosecute-incarcerate
Say what?
I'm talking about leaving because our government lost it's balls to pass meaningful medical reform
And you advocate joining the dullards who would attempt to derail it?
Oh yeah...that'll work...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
...dullards take back the country.
first things first...right?
just put aside the dem repub thing...take back the country...and then start fixing it up.
The bus driver is headed for a cliff!
...moving is only a temporary solution. (cuz unless we take this country back....) the rest of the world will fall victim to the corporations and banks soon after.
audit-prosecute-incarcerate
Start all over with Medicare for All. It's a winning proposition for the American people and one that people will get. The current nonsense is a complicated mess that won't really benefit the people. But then, maybe that's the goal.
Health care reform has been deformed by a bunch of corprorate-sponsored Democrats and Republicans, while many "progressives" keep believing that Obama is really a secret FDR.
This is so F*CKED UP I'm lost for words. Either we DEMAND a P.O. now or this country is down the tubes. We let them get away with this, then we really ARE a stupid, ignorant country!
If I had my health...and money, I'd be there in a heartbeat. Something needs TO BE DONE!
I'll go!
that you should post your suggestion just as I was going to comment. Prior to July 4th I suggested the exact same thing and got no rebuttles or comments to my suggestion. I guess there are too many of you had to go camping, fishing or just go to the fireworks to celebrate our lost freedoms. Instead you let the teabaggers dominate that weekend.
if and when the public option does pass in
congress, we will see the private insurance
companies drop en masse ALL those who now have
insurance that they want to cull out for any
number of lame reasons.
it will be blinding at the millions who will
suddenly find themselves without insurance that
they have had for years.......i'm holding my
breath not to say, "told you so" too early.
Why haven't proponents of single payer not gotten a single business group or sample of owners to go on record favoring a gov't run health insurance program? This would be a boom for them and all business owners.
we all got screwed...
When the Congressional Budget Office finishes scoring Conyers H.R. 676 and the House has a debate and votes on it.
I believe the CBO will prove that a Single Payer Health System will cover everyone and will be the most cost efficient system.
But then it will be too late to even bother with it...
And we'll all just have the distant memory of doctors and nurses being arrested in Baucus' committee for demanding that Single Payer be "on the table" and then him saying weeks later, "Well, looking back now it should have been included in the discussions....but NOW IT'S TOO LATE."
I think I'm gonna barf....
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
Sounds like you need to see a doctor.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
as director, don't expect it to be an honest scoring, he's owned
Because the significant majority of businesses who provide health insurance benefits for employees have chosen control ahead of their own profitability and competitiveness, ahead of their own long-term self-interests. By supporting a system wherein employers pay benefits, when they know full well that almost the totality of Americans without such employer sponsored benefit must do without, what they are really doing is supporting a system that turns access to healthcare and healthcare itself into a rationed commodity. If you don't have it, you are well and truly screwed. With 50(+) million people uninsured and all the remaining who do have insurance being under-insured (if only they all knew it), it creates an environment and culture that gives employers unbelievable control over the lives of their workers. It helps to keep workers afraid for their jobs and very, very compliant.
If healthcare were universal, if it existed independent of the job you did or didn't have, how many people do you think would be willing to remain in the employ of employers they despise doing jobs they hated? I suspect that a lot more (millions) would be willing to take a lot more risks with employment, basing their choices on quality of life issues instead of fear of a financial catastrophe at the hands of our predatory healthcare system. And that would demolish a principal tool of control that companies have over their workers. The thought is anethema to them.
That's why businesses have consistantly fought against any single-payer or social medicine system.
It's not over yet. It may be close but it's not over. We will see if Obama has something up his sleeve. If not it will be a one term presidency.
If you have lost Captain Kangaroo you have lost the country.
until the end Captain!! Anything can and will happen in this screwed up world!
and I fervently hope Obama is playing this like a chess game, and has a beneficial-to-the-people move or two "up his sleeve".
The Pukes gotta get even for GHWB, for one thing.
For another, they threw the election to ensure that there'd be a Democrat on whom to hang the failures to mend the Bushevik clusterfucks. That he's a "half-" minority (or could have been a woman) is lagniappe, all-but-guaranteeing that there won't be anymore "novelty" candidates at least until the white "majority" is finally breached.
Is that 2 million number assuming that all employees that are offered insurance by their employer actually buying into it? I've worked for a corporation in the past and did not take their offered health insurance. I couldn't afford it at minimum wage.
How did Rome fall again? How did that go?
Conservatives argue by becoming multicultural and essentially an over-bloated social spending deficit state.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
they tossed this little ball around for how long now, and this is the crap they think is reform?
Um..Sebelius? Obama? Having some sort of insurance "co-op" will not insure the people that currently are not. If the insurance industry wanted to insure them, they would be now.
If I was an American citizen right now, I'd be so angry I'd be at a loss as to what to do next. Corporate America has won, yet again. Damn.
It is so much more that the people who are not insured now. It is the HUGE amount of people who are underinsured and they don't even know it. It is people who are insured but paying a HUGE percentage of their income for that insurance that doesn't even cover them the way they think it does. The people who think they are happy but are paying 30% of their income and more, mush more, are the stupidest people in the world and they will never get it that they are being punked and manipulated and used. Even when they go bankrupt they will not get it. God I wish we could divide the country in half somehow.
"God I wish we could divide the country in half somehow."
I say, ...nice.
audit-prosecute-incarcerate
...White House still supports public option.
Published: August 16, 2009
Updated 1 hour ago
Snip - Speaking to CBS News’ Face the Nation on Sunday, White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs emphasized that President Barack Obama still supports having a “public option” for health care, which the White House believes will introduce additional competition and lower prices in the insurance market.
The statement runs contrary to claims by other officials and reports circulating other media on Sunday.
[ http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/08/16/gibbs-... ]
Gibbs On Health Care Debate
[ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UudxXmUa8s ]
Study the symptoms not the virus...
Is this the same president who made a behind the scenes deal with Big Pharma to prevent the government from bargaining on their prices? Somehow, I am not very reassured. A line in the sand is what he needs to do: "The Democrats must come together and support reform, and that must include a public option," not some weak kneed "The best solution might seem to be...if it all worked out well...and I want the Rethugs to cooperate...and if the stars are in alignment, wouldn't that be nice?"
Candideinnc
all they are doing is supporting a scam that punls the taxpayer, tranfers more our our national wealth into the hands of parsites and codifies into law a rip-off of the nation. The "public option" is shit, and I'm not buying the administration's bullshit.
Hurry up 2012! Dean/Sanders/Kucinich/Et.al. - in any combination of two who are willing!
Dick army acted like some kind of Simpsons character after Maddow set him straight. His incompetence was showing for all to see.
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
See you all in a few days. Keep up the good work. Let them know how you feel as loud as you can. I'll be off line. Not that anybody should care.
and collect your thoughts. Everyone needs a break from this clusterf*ck or it'll drive you insane. Take care, relax, and hurry back!
Rethugs scream lies about a good provision (end-of-life counseling) so the Democan'ts obligingly take it out. Rethugs scream lies about public option, Obama's mouthpieces say it really isn't a dealbreaker, they can do without it. By the time this bill passes, we'll be paying 70% of our take home pay for insurance policies that cover a box of bandaids and a bottle of asperin. With a $100 co-pay.
Want to guess how every other bill the Democan'ts try to pass for the next 3 years is going to go? Now that the Rethugs have figured out that the Dems have no cojones, we can get used to the third Bush administration.
You know if Obama shot for single-payer
He would've been talked down to public option.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Single-payer, and done it LBJ-style, we'd have single payer.
So, watch Dr. George Lakoff to see how:
http://www.brianfalldin.com/2009/08/how-to-fr...
Since the Public Option is for the American people, it should have been called the American Plan.
- Tom
Heare is another take:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/8/16/767804/-STFU!-Obama-SUPPORTS-the-public-option!-Todays-news
IF this is true and the Obama crowd is ready to give up the public option as part of health care reform, then he and his band of gutless bastards better get ready to pack up part of their act as well.
With overwhelming majorities in both houses pof congress AND the white house, it makes no public sense WHY he allowed himself to be led around by the nose as part of this exercise AND it speaks VOLUMES about his staff having only half a spine...NOT what we elected...the next four years are gonna be ugly....
The administration thinks it saw anger at the little talk fests with Rethugs the last few weeks? Get ready for RAGE if they dump the public option.
Candideinnc
Or maybe they read our letters to the President!
Either way, Crooks and Liars isn't the ONLY place where people freaked over the earlier statement.
We acquiesced from our stand wanting SINGLE PAYER nationalized medicine and accepted "public choice" as a bipartisan agreement. It means that "IT IS AGREED THAT THERE WILL BE PUBLIC CHOICE". And that is that. What in hell do they think the word "agree" or "acquiesced" means? That we can THEN sit here and be beaten to a pulp?
We tried all the tricks and traps when we got beat down under Clinton, and thrown under the bus. We sit here and take it when they stick us with trillions in debt to bail out the big shots on Wall Street, but when it comes to the People being healthy enough to work and live? OH HELL NO. We are NOT WORTH THE INVESTMENT! ! !
Investment? WE OWN THE NATION. It's high time we acted like it.
The problem is that the Dems just do not know how to play hardball , it's just no where in their repertoire , they screw themselves and us over every time . I wish they were all Lawrence O'donnell's and had some guts , principles , backbone and ( wal) nuts
Congress sucks overall and hasn't represented the people's interests in a long time. However, something like 98% are re-elected over and over again. If they don't run again, they do favors for special interests, leave office, then go make huge sums of money as a gift for their Congressional whore work.
The bluedog republicans and Obama are responsible for this mess.
When Bush the moron was president, he always got 99% repuke support, and then waited about 5 minutes for the corporate bribes to pick off a few bluedogs, and wallah - we had a brand new corporate favoring people screwing horrible piece of legislation that was catastrophic for 95% of the country.
America - a profile in greed.
Sorry Obama, but you ain't no FDR. Hell, you ain't even an LBJ. In fact, you aain't even a Bush.
Rush Limbaugh is what a smart person thinks a stupid bigot sounds like.
Speaking of things that are non essential, why don't you go back under the corporate rock you crawled out from under you old hag.
Rush Limbaugh is what a smart person thinks a stupid bigot sounds like.
The only thing they have to offer for their pissy little low-paying unsafe jobs is substandard healthcare insurance, without that they would have to pay a living wage to bring workers in, they even might have to treat you right.
That is why the single payer/public option is not on the table
I was at one point thinking she might make a good presidential candidate. Another sellout. Everything she's talking about would go away with a single payer system. Why does this administration hate the American People?
It sure didn't take long for the insurance/Pharma/ for-profit hospitals, HMO's and nursing homes to go to closing on their purchase of this administration.
they simply don't give a fuck about them, and serve their corpoRat benefactors...
as in the much asked question, "Why do they hate America?"....a joke that apparently fell flat on its face.
This may seem counter intuitive and against the conventional, anciently accepted widsom, but I believe it is true: The opposite of love is indifference, not hate. What they have demonstrated is supreme indifference, and it is an indifference that is flavored throughout with cynical contempt.
While i'm at it, the opposite of hate is detactchment, not love.
what should we have expected?
Some stuff you can't make up!
When are people going to wake up and start asking where they go when their boss DROPS everybody to "save profit" when there is NO option?
Are people really so oblivious that they don't KNOW or do they think the Genie will magically replace their coverage?
The total lack of knowledge, or rational thought is amazing!
This is late, but:-
It's called capitalizing gains and socializing losses. Employers can and will shove their employees onto the public option. They did it with TennCare in Tennessee, even mounting posters on break-room walls instructing employees on how to file. GOP employers did it, as well as Dems. These bastards know their own.
All the more reason why public option should be funded by a payroll tax on employers, if the option is implemented.
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