Those 'National Security' Republicans Are Disclosing Intelligence Secrets. Gee, Wonder Why?
By Susie Madrak Saturday Jun 06, 2009 4:30am
You have to hand it to those hypocritical Republicans. They are once again controlling this debate because they and their little media enablers keep changing the subject from torture to whether torture is efficient.
Is that really the debate we want to be having in the United States of America? I'm sure there are still are some immoral techniques we haven't used yet. Is it okay to start, on the off chance that they work?
Republicans ignited a firestorm of controversy on Thursday by revealing some of what they had been told at a closed-door Intelligence Committee hearing on the interrogation of terrorism suspects.
The Republicans who gave on-the-record interviews were Rep. Pete Hoekstra and Rep. John Kline.
Democrats immediately blasted the GOP lawmakers for publicly discussing classified information, while Republicans said Democrats are trying to hide the truth that enhanced interrogation of detainees is effective.
GOP members on the Intelligence Committee on Thursday told The Hill in on-the-record interviews that they were informed that the controversial methods have led to information that prevented terrorist attacks.
[...] “I am absolutely shocked that members of the Intelligence committee who attended a closed-door hearing … then walked out that hearing — early, by the way — and characterized anything that happened in that hearing,” said Intelligence Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations Chairwoman Jan Schakowsky (D-Ill.). “My understanding is that’s a violation of the rules. It may be more than that.”
House Intelligence Committee Chairman Silvestre Reyes (D-Texas) said, “Members on both sides need to watch what they say.”
Both Schakowsky and Reyes accused GOP members of playing politics with national security.
“I think they are playing a very dangerous game when it comes to the discussion of matters that were sensitive enough to be part of a closed hearing,” Schakowsky said.
This isn't the first time Hoekstra has done this, either. From ABC News in 2007:
For the second time in as many weeks, a senior House Republican may have divulged classified information in the media.
In an opinion article published in the New York Post Thursday, Rep. Pete Hoekstra, R-Mich., reported the top-secret budget for human spying had decreased -- the type of detail normally kept under wraps for national security reasons.
"The 2008 Intelligence Authorization bill cut human-intelligence programs," Hoekstra wrote in the piece, in which he also criticized "leaks to the news media."
Formerly the chairman of the intelligence committee, Hoekstra is now its highest ranking Republican. In its recent budget authorizations, that committee kept from public view all figures and most discussion of spending on such classified items as human spying. Hoekstra's apparent slip was first noted on the liberal Web site, Raw Story.
"If Mr. Hoekstra wants to break ranks and disclose that information, that's fine with me," said Steven Aftergood, a government secrecy expert who has long pushed to declassify overall spending on intelligence. "But it is the sort of thing he has harshly criticized in the past."
Indeed, Hoekstra's penchant for openness appears to be selective. He has aggressively attacked unnamed opponents guilty of such leaking, accusing them of "recklessly and illegally" disclosing secrets "for political or other motives" in reports published by his committee.
He's even exacted punishment for suspected transgressions. Last October, Hoekstra stripped the credentials of a Democratic committee aide he believed may have leaked a then-classified document to The New York Times. A month later, he quietly reinstated the aide's access.
What do we say, boys and girls? "It's okay if you're a Republican!"
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when they drop the pretense and frankly embrace the "ends-justify-means" rationality.
We're pretty far gone, friends...
Who's "we", Senor Woody?
While you've been grubbing for pesos, my friends and I have been tap-dancing on the sunny side of the street, and laughing all the way to the bank.
Survival of the fittest. Deal with it, amigo.
...but your "I've got mine. Screw you!" attitude is exactly why you right wingers came very close to destroying this country. I guess that attitude must be why you all keep insisting on more of the policies that got us here too. "Very close" isn't good enough for you and there's more to steal out there.
Hi "mystery guy". Long time no see.
"GOP members on the Intelligence Committee on Thursday told The Hill in on-the-record interviews that they were informed that the controversial methods have led to information that prevented terrorist attacks."
Ya, well we were all "informed" lots of things by the bush admin that turned out not to be the case.
1. Iraq has wmd's
2. Al-Queda and Iraq were allies
3. Iraq was building nuclear weapons
4. Iraqis would greet us a liberators
5. The Iraq war would take 6 months tops
6. Iraq had something to do with 9/11
7. We don't torture
8. There was no way we could have known Bin Laden was going to attack America
9. The govt isn't spying on its citizens
10. Pat Tillman was a hero who died fighting the enemy.
11. Abu Graihb was just a 'few bad apples'
12. Jessica Lynch was rescued by a team of heroes in a made for TV movie-esque raid
13. Iraq was buying uranium from Niger
14. No one in the admin had anything to do with outing Valerie Plame as a covery CIA agent
15. Tax cuts for the wealthy were good for the economy
16. Deregulation was good for the economy
I mean it just goes on and on.
Beat me to it. That is exactly how I viewed their statement.
Maybe it's about time that they were "informed" again. Informed of such things as "you have the right to remain silent, you have the right to have an attorney present...", etc.
Great list -- thanks, Harry! I've copied it so I can keep it to refute some of my right-wing cousins.
(:>)
There's just SOOOOOO much, and we know about it, but it's hard to remember it all at once. Maybe we need to keep lists in our pockets so we are prepared.
republicans disclose alot of things
There one right now in a trench coat on the corner right now.
Yeah, this is just great.
Nancy Pelosi does her duty and keeps the secrets intelligence briefings she recieves to herself and these slugs beat her over the head with it.
Then, these neo-con big-mouths like Hoekstra blabber it out and they are not arrested or even investigated for treason and disclosing secret information.
Raw political ploys.
They don't give a shit, they just like to swing their dicks around.
WTF is he still doing on the intelligence committee and receiving classified information? Surely the congress can remove him...
et al 1.800.828.0498...Tell them and the leaders to stop this BS...Change is NOT DIVERTING ATTENTION AWAY FROM THEIR STUPIDITY! The media should be put on notice to PROTECT our security and not report on the repub slight of hand!
the media. Always. It is not us.
who heads the HIC.
Notice the one quote from Reyes in the article:
House Intelligence Committee Chairman Silvestre Reyes (D-Texas) said, “Members on both sides need to watch what they say.”
"Both sides"?!?!?!?!
Rep. Reyes, all the leaks are coming from your vile GOP colleagues, yet you have the nerve to blame "both sides"?
Reyes is one of those repulsive Bush Dog Dems, who first told me, via radio talk show, that the Dems weren't going to reward the telecoms for warrantlessly spying on their customers, but then, not even two weeks later, voted to extend retroactive legal immunity to the telecoms for just this very thing.
But, even though it didn't do much, I did get to rip into him about it on another radio talk show.
Reyes is a prick, and to see where his sympathies really lie, just consider that while he has NO problems with his own constituents being spied on without a warrant, he's thrown a hissy fit, and promised HIC hearings, because one of his own colleagues, fellow 4th Amendment hater & Bush Jr warrantless spying lackey Jane Harman, was recorded-via a legally issued warrant-trying to get help from AIPAC, so she could head the HIC, in return for which she'd try to help get two of their members off the hook for spying on the US.
That Reyes went along with W, when Reyes is in a heavily blue district, is just nauseating beyond belief.
So when Republicans disclose classified information to the media...it's for the good of the country.
If anyone else but them does it...they're traitors.
so why shouldn't we trust everything he says about everything...?
http://blahgblog.wordpress.com/2009/06/05/169/
I grew up in Holland Michigan, the heart and soul of the kind of duplicitous religion and politics of which Hoekstra is a perfect representative: duplicity and hypocrisy are part and parcel of the religious/political culture of this part of Michigan.
Holland - the town that burned down because it was god's will and because god wills everything that happens, the good the bad and the ugly god willed the fire so burn baby burn.
I haven't lived there for 30 years and am so happy to be free.
...Or are these people completely oblivious to their own hypocrisy, extremist rhetoric, racist, sexist, homophobia even moreso now than there were before Bill Clinton ever ran for President?
I mean, sure it's been noticeably worse in just the past few months, but I don't remember Republicans being this clueles back when Carter was President.
I really wish the media would stop calling it "enhanced interrogation". It's torture. Also, it's not "controversial". It's illegal.
Both are excellent points.
stole two presidential elections and all the other things they accomplished. That is how the psychopathic personality works. Cross lines that decent people will not cross. Decent people will not even believe that ANYONE would do something that dishonest, etc. and the psychopath counts on that, too. They are desperate now, so they are losing personal control. I love this part. How low will they go? We are about to get the answer to that question.
is because they didn't want it.
Too many, too big clusterfucks.
So they got a black dude with charisma to stand in, and become the scapegoat, by (inevitably) failing to rectify the shit the Busheviks left behind.
By the time of the next cycle, Murkins will have forgotten it was the Chimperor and the Pukes who are responsible, and no amount of historical reminders will fix that lapse. It will ALL be "Obama's fault," "Obama" being short-hand for liberal/progressive politics, and the interests of minority empowerment.
A new regime will ride in from the Right in 2012 to 'save' the country...
So what if they're all wearing brown shirts?
Yes, some of them are completely oblivious, but more are becoming doubtful and beginning to question. That's why Republican Party numbers are dropping.
I believe that, rather than calling them names, we progressives and liberals should support these questioners, the ones who are becoming uncomfortable with the neo-cons and fascists.
If those doubters, who would like to be moderate Republicans, get respect and understanding from us, then they'll feel more comfortable being rational and criticizing the far right wing.
It's like getting info from a terrorist suspect -- if you respect him or her and are friendly, you're much more likely to get the results you want.
I am sure Papa Pill Popper told them it was ok.
All these Reslug morons think they are still above the law, like the last administration.
When will the American people wake up from their stupor and realize the fallacy of the Republican Party being stronger on national security issues. The Republicans are not better on national security issues, they just frame the debate better. Like when they attacked decorated hero, Max Cleland, for not being tough on national security.
Instead of being immediately removed from the committee and having their security clearances revoked, they get even more press coverage around the fallacy that "Democrats are hiding the truth".
I call BULLSHIT!
that doesn't believe that the media is not directly involved in trying to deceive us?
They are here to help. Katie Couric loves America just as much as you or I.
Your baseless insults are not helpful; in fact, media moguls have feelings, too.
"...media moguls have feelings, too."
Laughing so hard I'm coughing!
... information released W/O approval it's illegal those people should be arrested and brought to trail... a capitol punishment during wartime.
OOPS... I forgot the wimpy Democrats are in power and NOTHING will happen... sorry my mistake.
"media enablers keep changing the subject from torture to whether torture is efficient...."
TORTURE IS ILLEGAL! As well as, I might add, IMMORAL! Those who annually decry the torture of their lord and savior JC, would do well to remember his suffering at torture and then to heed his words.
My dear lass, I'm afraid what you call "torture" has been a part of the fabric of our society for quite some time now.
You may want to brush up on your history. 16th century London might be a good place for you to start.
Just be thankful we discontinued the despicable practice of drawing and quartering!
And, so what if torture violates 21st century international law?
If America, England or Israel do it, it isn't illegal.
you are wrong it violate international law
that this torture produced "effective" results, it's still torture plain and simple. Besides, aren't we revealing important information to Joe terrorist out there about our methods as well as our EVALUATION of their effectiveness? Nice going guys. Keep poking your eyes with your own fingers.
just like bay buchanan defending, with just oodles of empathy, one of her employees who karate chopped a black woman and called her a n-.
she even had the audacity to say the guy was *lynched*.
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/06/ba...
I picture a loon howling at the moon. Works for me.
are pretty much openly racist. i really don't understand why msnbc continues to have him on. he is even known, supposedly affectionately, as 'uncle pat,' even, again supposedly, by maddow.
he must have some time left on his contract. but i'm sure that's just wishful thinking -- whenever it expires i'm sure msnbc will renew it.
Code for that "funny uncle" isn't it?
why don't people in the corporate media mention hoekstra's claims about finding wmd every time they feature him?
What good's a secret
Unless everyone knows you have one?
The Repubs never said the "enhanced techniques" or "torture" or "controversial methods" had produced anything of value. They said, after "choosing their words very carefully" that "interrogations" had produced valuable information. That means any type of interrogation including the ones used by the FBI that did not include torture, but common law enforcement tactics.
Also, one of the on the record quotes was from Pete Hoekstra, who was not in the briefing, but passing along heresay information.
The article really is nothing but unAmerican pro-torture propaganda to protect the criminals who ordered illegal actions and to further undermine the international standing of the United States. I really am rather sick and tired of these neo-con cons.
I think the Rethuglicans are really on to something here. After all, it's not really torture and there are so many more methods that, given the proper definition and safeguards, could be included in the program. Take "Drawing and Quartering" for instance. By administering the proper painkillers beforehand and having a Doctor in attendance to immediately stem the flow of blood, many of the features of torture could be eliminated. Then all that would be needed would be some psychological counseling before the enhanced interrogation to assure the subject that it really won't hurt and that a quadroplegic can learn, with proper training, to live an almost functional life. Hell, they'll think they're going on the coaster at Disney World!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkbUHMA-yF0
“The hearing did address the enhanced interrogation techniques that have been much in the news lately,” Kline said, noting that he was intentionally choosing his words carefully in observance of the committee rules and the nature of the information presented.
“Based on what I heard and the documents I have seen, I came away with a very clear impression that we did gather information that did disrupt terrorist plots,” Kline said.
1. Torture was talked about at this meeting.
2. He got the impression that we did gather information.
3. That impression also led him to believe it disrupted terrorists.
Notice what he doesn't say.
1. Any information he saw being factual.
2. The "enhanced techniques" yielded the information that "disrupted" anything.
3. The legal standing of anything discussed.
The Hill also calls this a "closed meeting". Wrong! It was a classified briefing. Big diff.
mouth. Unredacted transcripts should be released immediately. And he should be arrested.
Last month the Senate was briefed on the "effeiciency" of the "rape of women, girls and babies" as a weapon of war.
http://wire.antiwar.com/2009/05/13/rape-is-ef...
Oh yeah this BIMBO wanted the Congress investigated remember that, you know what I think the FBI should be investigating all RNC and GOP personnel and their staff members. Funny how these COWARDS and TRAITORS keep talking about the Left and it is their OWN party its members aand Affliates that are petraying this Coun try and it all goes back to REGAN and his Staff remember on e of those staff memebers is the present American Traitor cheney, does anyone see a thread.
Republicans are leaking because Democrats are lying to the American people... only telling us the half the story they want us to hear...
If Democrats were transparent in the way they promised in the campaign... Republicans wouldn't HAVE to come out and reveal this info
So, let me see if I understand your sense of outrage then... It's terrible that Republicans are doing what Democrats promised they would do... utterly TERRIBLE.
you wrong rep are law breaker
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