Political violence on the left and the right: fantasy and reality
If you were looking for an example of how right's wingnutosphere manages to spin the most innocuous wisps of nothing into massive earth-shaking scandals of cosmic import, look no further than the outbreak of right-wing hives that erupted last week over these words from the estimable political-philosophy professor Brian Leiter:
Meanwhile, the Republican criminals in Wisconsin forced through their attack on workers' rights, leading to an uproar in Madison. ... At some point these acts of brazen viciousness are going to lead to a renewed philosophical interest in the question of when acts of political violence are morally justified, an issue that has, oddly, not been widely addressed in political philosophy since Locke.
Within a week's time, these words had morphed into an example of left-wingers advocating violence in places like Wisconsin!, one of the favorite memes o' the week at Fox. Megyn Kelly devoted an entire segment to wondering about the meaning of Leiter's words:
KELLY: Well, some on the left now suggesting that crackdowns on unions like we saw in Wisconsin will lead to renewed interest in whether violence would be morally justified.
Of course, Kelly couldn't manage to find a Faux Democrat who could actually read what Leiter wrote in context and laugh the whole discussion off the screen, since such a creature does not exist. This left Kelly free to then compare Leiter's quip to a nutty rant from Louis Farrakhan. Fair 'n' balanced!
The person who pretty much kicked off the whole charade last week was the Ole Perfesser, Glenn Reynolds, who wanked:
This whole “new civility” business just isn’t working out as promised. On the other hand, it is working out pretty much as expected. . . .
It seemed that everyone on the right, rather than read what Leiter's words actually said, wanted to read what they thought his hidden meaning was -- namely, that violence might become philosophically justified, a la Eugene Volkh: "My sense from Prof. Leiter’s post, though, is that he is hinting at more than just a philosophical inquiry".
Ann Althouse, as is her wont, made the leap and went there:
How quickly the lefty mind turns toward violence! ... Here, I'll help you get your fancy-schmancy, high-tone philosophy seminar started: Acts of political violence are justified to get what you want.
...
Leiter is…inclined to approve of the impulse toward violence on the left and willing to mobilize the discipline of philosophy to generate rhetoric to support its political goals. It’s quite disgusting.
Indeed, there was great handwringing on the right that Leiter was actually inciting violence. James Taranto cites reader John Benjamin:
Frankly, Leiter borders on incitement. Not to see that comments such as his enhance the possibility of actual violence in the future is unacceptable. There is a profound degree of antipathy in political circles today and one would be denying reality if one expressed surprise at an act of political violence today. Shock and horror, yes, but surprise, no and it's due precisely to the allowing of intellectual lunatics such as Leiter the light of day on campus or anywhere inside civilization.
Even Taranto -- who nonetheless read Leiter's remarks as intimating an approval of violence -- wouldn't go quite that far. But nonetheless it became a fait accompli that Brian Leiter was urging the left to engage in violence.
Which is not just patent nonsense but patently dishonest nonsense: The clear meaning of Leiter's remarks is that this kind of political-miscreancy-without-accountability ultimately gets people to thinking about violence, and some of them concoct philosophical justifications for it -- which really is almost unquestionably true, regardless of which side of the political aisle you sit upon. He says absolutely nothing to indicate approval or disapproval; he merely remarks on this point.
For what it's worth, we're of the opinion that political violence of any kind regardless of source -- whether privately inflicted or state supported -- is only acceptable in the name of self-defense or humanitarian defense of others. And while we have been adamant in standing up to the rhetoric of eliminationist violence that has been endemic on the Right in recent years, we're similarly adamant that threatening rhetoric has no place on the Left. And to the extent that it has bubbled up in Wisconsin in recent weeks, we are willing to stand with those who condemn the threats.
But what's most amazing about this episode is how finely tuned right-wing ears have become to even the vaguest intimation of advocacy of violence from the left, in part because of the anger bubbling up in Wisconsin. Amazing, because they have been utterly deaf when it comes to the endless deluge of vicious and hateful bile that's come from the American right in recent years. John Benjamin's fears that Brian Leiter is inciting violence are downright laughable when stacked up against, say, your run-of-the-mill Glenn "Progressives Are Cancer on Society" Beck rant, or Sean Hannity's latest eliminationist joke.
Their fears are especially ironic in the face of what they have produced. In contrast to the handful of relatively low-level threatening remarks we've seen out of Wisconsin, there has been a real flood of threats from the American Right directed at liberals and government officials, including some that have produced federal prosecutions for making threats. These threats have come from sovereign citizens, among others; they have involved numerous instances of political-campaign violence, as well as threats to judges, and 'Patriot' threats of violence against sitting governors. There have been explicit threats from Tea Partiers and death threats from anonymous racists.
But those are just the threats, which really have been so numerous and have become so common that it's really impossible to track them.
This is not the case when it comes to incidents involving real or imminent violence producing arrests. Here's what a map tracking them for the past two and half years looks like:
Here's the complete list. As you can see, since July 2008, we are up to 24 incidents and counting.
Here's my challenge to all those right-wing bloggers who are up in arms about the left's supposed countenancing of the advocacy of violence: Come up with a comparable map.
Really. I'd like to challenge the entire wingnutosphere to map out for us the incidents of actual left-wing violence targeting conservatives over the same time period. Threats don't count: You have to demonstrate that someone inspired by left-wing ideology either engaged in a violent act or was arrested while preparing to engage in one.
Because then you could demonstrate that you have solid grounds for fearing the potential advocacy of violence in left-wing rhetoric. Over here on the Left, we don't have that problem. We have those grounds.
My guess is, the best you'll be able to come up with is Kenneth Gladney. Which is about as lame and hapless an example of "political violence" on recent record.
Of course, we understand why you're trying to make someone like Brian Leiter out to be an advocate for violence: It's a way of diverting our attention from the very real concerns that exist about the results of right-wing violent rhetoric. Of course, in order to succeed, you have to completely whitewash away the very real and troubling history of right-wing extremist violence in America over the past 20 years. But that's something you've all become very skilled at.






Yeah, it's all of us old long-haired hippie professor types that are violent and carry guns everywhere we go; not those nice NRA types who listen to Rush, Beck, and hate anyone who is outside their clan (immediate mating family).
Rush Limbaugh is what a smart person thinks a stupid bigot sounds like.
to even the vaguest intimation of advocacy of violence from the left"
because they are looking for an excuse to unleash the stormtroopers. in the meantime, it serves to keep these misguided individuals fired up.
now, if you want to look farther afield for left-wing violence, we do have the examples of stalin and mao, but even then, those two had rationales for their actions , as misguided as they were.
Forgive me for whipping out the 'No True Scotsman' thing, but if Stalin was a leftist than I am Mary, Queen of Scots. He did not have political beliefs or loyalty to an ideology, he had himself, and that was all he cared about. He was an authoritarian demagogue who cloaked himself in false leftist rhetoric in a half-assed attempt to keep the mass rabble satisfied.
if today's china reflects at all his commitment to 'leftist' ideals.
such as the fact that independent trade unions are not allowed. i have often wondered what big bill haywood would think about that.
to the world he was left, about as left as mao. point taken, but i thought i would bring it up as that is the public perception.
"as misguided as they were"
once applied to me, how can you assure anyone that you, Coyote Bongwater, are not Mary, Queen of Scots? And that you have a rationale, misguided as Stalin and Mao's, for making us think you are not?
TFR
C'mon Faux...just go to biggovernment.com or your own fricking website if you want to read about violence. Don't stay too long though or it will make your eyes fall out.
These guys distract us with left vs. right trivialities and culture war topics while they rob us blind through the banks and the politicians screw us through legislation. They also use racism and nationalism to divide us and conquer us. Sick and historical.
"Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people." ~ Eleanor Roosevelt
to a point. racism is real and should be opposed, the problem comes when class identity takes a back seat to racial identity. class warfare and distinctions affect everyone, whereas racism affects a smaller percentage, and thrives on class resentment. i have a hard time expressing this, not a trained writer.
battle the class divide, you take a leg out from under racism. we need to treat all citizens equally, and apply mlk's famous maxim, and judge according to character.
idea? Racism affects everyone and exists in every socio-economic class. Economists have shown that people are more than willing to sacrifice what's in their financial interests in order to continue practicing racism. Those who are on the oppressor side of the racist divide can be inclined to believe that we should all be more concerned with class. That's no surprise. Dealing with racism first would mean they'd have to make the same kinds of sacrifices (of privilege) that they understand will be necessary to overcome the effects of classism. On the other hand, if you are on the marginalized side of the racist hierarchy, you may be much more negatively affected than those who are not. If, like many people around the world, you are marginalized on the basis of race AND class, there's absolutely no reason why you should prefer to address one and put the other on the back-burner.
What you're claiming is just as ridiculous as if a millionaire came on here and started saying that most people aren't affected by classism, so we should work on addressing racism and then every other kind of hierarchical oppression will work itself out as a result. MLK NEVER advocated what you're propagating. There's a reason why the Civil Rights movement mostly consisted of African-Americans (of ALL economic classes) challenging a system that was being maintained mostly by whites of every economic class.
We have not been scuffling in this waste-howling wildness for the right to be stupid.
Toni Cade Bambara
. . . is often a tool used to divide people that would otherwise have far more in common.
Maybe it's a matter of perspective. To say to a poor black man "Hey, ditch your worries about racism and focus on class issues" is a bit different thing than to say to a poor white "redneck": "Hey, it's not the blacks keeping you down, take a look around; it's rich against poor."
Has Oprah Winfrey been a victim of racism? Most assuredly, she has. Yet Oprah still has far less in common with a family facing foreclosure and eviction than she does with Donald Trump or Celine Dion regardless of the soon-to-be-homeless family's race.
On the flipside, the "redneck" living in a Mississippi shack has probably not been a victim of racism (though he may believe otherwise), yet it's still difficult to call him "privileged" in comparison to Michael Jordan or Michael Steele.
We have more in common (well, 99% of us do) than we do in difference. It's not that racism doesn't exist; it's that the focus on racism to the exclusion of class creates divisions where there should be, where there needs to be, unification.
That said, a black man in America who replies "You don't know what the hell your talking about." to a white guy who talks about how we need to focus more on class than race has a damn good point.
Still, we have more in common than we do in difference.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
Look who is deciding who has the most in common. Winfrey may beg to differ with you about which group she has more in common with. People don't automatically identify with the class that you think they should see themselves as members of. This is why you see people who are willing to go against what you might see as being in their best interests. There is absolutely no objective reason why someone should identify with their economic class more than their racial class. If you think there is, then feel free to point it out. However, it takes more than just FEELING like they should see themselves in a particular way in order for it to be true.
Furthermore, your understanding of privilege is, well, poor. Privilege refers to classes of people, not individuals. A person can belong to a privileged class, and thus have privilege to some degree, even if they don't experience every single advantage that this privilege confers on others within the class. The existence of poor whites and/or rich blacks doesn't challenge the concept of unearned privilege.
Of course racism exists. However, it's does a lot more than just exist. It affects people's lives just as dramatically as you think class can. Focusing on race to the exclusion of class is a valid strategy for working towards social justice, just as focusing on both class and race is valid. Having attempted to work with whites for many years in settings where all kinds of oppression were supposedly recognized and understood to be equally harmful, I have seen how determined most whites were to hold on to their race privilege even when they were willing to abandon every other kind of hierarchy.
People of color have learned that, in order to have our issues addressed, we must do as women learned to do by focusing on our own group needs, instead of waiting for whites to get around to addressing race in the laundry list of oppressions that exist. When whites take the lead in dealing with racism, then and only then will there be any room for them to effectively claim that we should see ourselves as having something in common with them on the basis of class.
We have not been scuffling in this waste-howling wildness for the right to be stupid.
Toni Cade Bambara
You want to see a rightie's head explode? Cite the innumerable examples of right wing violence, and they just go nuts. Mind you, while they accuse you of unfairness, they never give an example of left-wing violence (I wonder why). So, when they get an example of words that might imply violence by the left, they get so excited that they wet themselves. This is simply a defense mechanism for the ugliness they can't defend from their fanatics' actions.
has irrefutable proof on her website of left wing violence. We should be afraid..very afraid of ourselves.
I scare myself all of time. Am afraid to walk the streets because some violet lefty nut might be lurking around the corner.
Oh god..it's me!
From what I've seen of Michelle Malkin's work, she mostly gives her venom away through her blog, which is free to view.
And we all know what they call a woman who gives it away, don't we?
And we all know what they call a woman who gives it away, don't we?
An insecure tramp. (I'm being charitable)
...I CRAP bigger than you.
Brian Leiter would like to thank all the reich-wing jack-offs for the newly directed traffic to his somewhat uninteresting blog.
Humpty Dumpty was pushed.
Political views outside the mainstream can themselves be easily cast as a "threat." The solution being, of course, using law enforcement to investigate and suppress political views outside the mainstream, which is, of course whatever the Establishment dictates are "unacceptable" views.
Its happened before. Red Squads had the communist menace as well as groups which engaged in actual violence as the excuse for their existence. But the investigations were hardly limited to violent groups. Dr. King was investigated and surveilled based solely on his political beliefs which were not in any way connected to violence. As were such completely pacifist groups as the Quakers.
The "left" or "right" wing nature of the groups is really irrelevant. Authoritarians on either side will cast aspersions on the other, and false equivalence is a game that our media is quite good at. All that matters is that acts of political violence themselves be hyped, and conspiracies hinted at. This can be as simple as using "scare quotes" around the words "isolated incident." No proof of any actual connections need be demonstrated - indeed they seldom, if ever, are. Simply hint at a conspiracy, and some people will readily buy into it.
So political violence gets stoked as the hot button issue. What's the "fair and balanced" response? It can't be that law enforcement be empowered to "get" the bad guys on the right; that would not be acceptable. The only response is that law enforcement be empowered and encouraged to investigate people based on any beliefs outside the mainstream "acceptable" range to the left or right. 'Cause that's really the only "fair" way to do it, right?
Problem is: law enforcement itself is generally, if not overwhelmingly, right wing itself. The targets they will pick and choose will likely be those on the left (with a handful of stings on the right for "balance" and to keep people scared). Sure, scary right wing loonies might be the excuse, but the "solution" is likely to result in another round of Red Squads targeting the left.
And all they need is to hype some scary "isolated incidents" and throw in an academic piece on the left (or any other lefty anecdote) for false equivalence's sake, and they have their hook.
Political suppression is the trophy.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
Come on now, Dave. You will never get anywhere with your fancy schmancy facts and reality, what with their well known liberal bias. What you need is some deranged, feverish rightwing fantasies to see the real truth.
The American right wing has always been thus.
Old-style southern, white, racists were/are often violent themselves, but will screech endlessly about how African Americans are dangerous. And if a white person wanders around a school with an uzi, a nearby racist, white cop will pull over the nearby African American driver for the serious crime of failing to signal 100 feet before turning into a driveway to pick up his daughter from the school.
It's always been this way in one form or another. The privileged side gets to do whatever it wants, while the marginalized side is vilified for the slightest of indiscretions, the threats of which are exaggerated beyond recognition.
Everyone is equally entitled to the pursuit of happiness. Wasn't that once self evident?
Oh, the sneaky little technique where the Bimbo innocently frames her talking point with the seemingly innocuous phrase, "...some on the Left are saying...". Or "...it's been reported..." or some other equally disingenuous bullshit.
The sad thing, most viewers are too stupid to pick up on it and if they do, they don't care.
Megan, go make some soft-core porn and work on your website.
...I CRAP bigger than you.
Ok, distract the masses with threats and fears of penny ante violence from the loony fringes but IGNORE or side-step all the state violence perpetuated by so called liberal democratic Western governments and corporations that murders millions every year. Enjoy your oil war David. If Obama does it its fine but if it was Bush, all hell would break loose here. The hypocrisy of C+L's false left/right partisanship is naked for all to see. YOUR PRESIDENT could do something to restore the rule of law in America but he doesn't, and C+L does not go after him all hammer and tongs because you would rather have him because you think of him as on your enlightened side. You keep going along to get along and change NOTHING.
Where are getting the idea that everyone here is all gung ho for anotheer oil war? From what I read, most are against it, regardless of who starts it.
Compare the muted reaction here (and I mean Editorially here) on Libya to Iraq and Afghanistan over Bush's tenure. David is on quite a worthy battle to demonize the right in a tit for tat media spat that demonizes the so called "left" Restoration of the rule of law in America and promotion of accountability would do more good for the long term political health of democratic institutions but because Obama won't go along it just gets worse. C+L pushes on the string of the loony right but seems to let slide the promise of "change" which in theory it could really do something about. I am more disappointed in C+L free pass to Dems than I am in Obama's free pass to BUSHCO.
is no comparison to what Bush did lying us into war where Obama is doing a humanitarian intervention.
Or are you part of the problem? Lots of whack jobs on the right consider Iraq/AF humanitarian intervention.
stating a fact.
And do you expect to see similar "interventions" in civil wars elsewhere around the globe especially those countries without oil? What about in countries on "our side" ?
has been kicked around for days and isn't relevent to the situation. Khadafi openly threatened to kill all that protested, extermination of the cockroaches. That situation hasn't always been so open.
How about in African countries south of the Sahara where all the big genocides are lately? If the situation arises again do you think Obama will intervene? Do you want to kill the killers before they can kill? Does that make peace? Can I be eligible for a prize? Doesn't Bush want to kill for peace too?
Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3
Corruption favors the wealthy.
I warned a Republican back around 2003 to watch out for the whole unitary executive/patriot act/excision of due process from the Bill of Rights, because you just might be giving Hillary Clinton the power to warrentlessly wiretap whomever the hell she wants and that despite best intentions, few leaders just hand back powers that were so cavalierly give to his or her predecessor.
. . . on the Libya War earlier today, Big John? Check it out..
Granted, it's not from an exceptionally aggressive viewpoint, but it's certainly not from an apologetic one either. While I agree in general terms that C&L hasn't been nearly as hard on the Obama Administration (or Democrats generally) as they should have been, I have noticed some movement over time.
It may be glacial movement thus far, but glaciers do move.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
but I can't live on hope in a geomorphological time frame. MLK wouldn't buy that and I don't think anyone should. I think democratic institutions are in real danger and time is getting short.
. . . is that their movement may be slow, but it's difficult to stop. And even after they recede, the landscape is significantly changed.
The comments here at C&L are way ahead of the posters, but that's not all that unusual. And John Amato has given us a pretty open forum to express our views - a tool we didn't have even a short time ago.
I can't live on hope either, but I don't believe time is short (or at least I really "hope" it isn't). We're in this for the long haul or at least until a significant tipping point, and I doubt it's 2012. We've already lost that one, whoever wins, unless there's a major reawakening before then.
But that might happen, and C&L might be a reason that it does.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
for your insight.
He did say he will hunt down dissenters and kill them - he'll go door to door and find them in their closets - and in his case we can believe it's not just an empty threat. Something to think about...
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
Even I don't believe Obama is going to go that far - yet :P
Corruption favors the wealthy.
for Post of the Year, fiver
Heheheh...8(0)
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
it could happen here too if America descends into fascism. What is Obama doing to reverse the trend?
Seeing Megyn Kelly's face in the video preview is my cue to instantly ignore it. Her incessant concern trolling and poutrage is inching her ever closer to Glenn Beck on the "reasons why Fox is not a legitimate news organization" scale.
They want so badly to find examples of left-wing violence that they grab onto and overhype any instance no matter how subtle or non existent it may be.
Union organizing is not a basic right? Really?
What about the Freedom of Assembly to promote,pursue and defend COMMON interests.
'Talk to the hand'
to tell these people factual information. For your time and trouble, they'll just call you an elitist and ignore any attempt to educate them.
We have not been scuffling in this waste-howling wildness for the right to be stupid.
Toni Cade Bambara
Yeah-right.
I'd add Vincent McCrudden, investor and Randian "producer" who threatened to kill federal regulators.
Website || Twitter
Everyone in the political class plays. That includes large swaths of the media.
Megan Kelly indeed.
Political violence is a natural outcome of this kind of juvenile political posturing. And naturally, most of the violence and violent rhetoric is on the side that's most attuned to its inner pre-adolescent.
This is how Post-Modern Politics is played. The Rules of the Game. And it's a big reason why so many people just disconnect from and turn off politics as a foolish and childish game that has nothing whatsoever to do with the actual public interest or public will.
It's all about the naughty children and their vicious games. That's all.
In these cases it is directly due to low IQ and low information...Then again it is fox channel...What has come out of the mouths of the readers thst is true in years! Nothing..their bimbettes keep spewing and the viewership keeps dropping!
about what Beck says on his show is profound. That's been demonstrated already.
It is Glenn Beck who engages in stochastic terrorism, but this ditz doesn't seem to have a clue about what Beck is saying on his show. Three would-be assassins know well what Beck is saying. Luckily, they were incompetent, but who knows about the next one that takes his cue from Beck and sets out to assassinate someone that Beck is targeting.
I wonder who is going to have to die before Beck is shut down for inciting violence. You certainly won't hear Kelly or anyone else on Fox wonder that.
"The antidote to bad speech is more speech." ~~J.S. Mill
The Right Wing does not see the political spectrum as a straight line, but as a circle, wherein 'what goes around, comes around.' Extreme Right Wingers get ever more extreme and go around the bend, and disappear from Right Wing sight. ('No, we don't see any extremists on the right!') They continue to get more and more extreme and finally re-appear on the EXTREME LEFT. That way the extremists can, in their view, be the worst of the worst left wing extremists. In the fullness of time, the extremists continue their extremes and find themselves moving into the middle and drag everybody to the right, and the Right Wing is now ten times more extreme than when the cycle started. And so it goes...
While this is pure hogwash, it just about works as an explanation.
...somewhat informed by experience and observation. I believe that many of those on the right know full well that most all of the violence in the last 20 years or so has had right wing connections or motivations. This results in a somewhat desperate search for examples of the left pushing for or justifying viloence. Have to push that false equivalency, you know, because the true equilvalency of a proclivity towards violence by the left in this case does not exist, and that makes the right feel politically vulnerable, and, though they would never admit it, uncomfortably morally inferior.
It's not that there is no violence from the left, and I'll admit to having fantasies about wanting to bitch slap some of these glib right wing commentators, or Republic (sic) politicians while they are in the process of justifying the class warfare that continues to widen the income gap between the many of us and the few of them, but generally writers on the left can discuss potential violence without advocating it because it's not right there simmering in the sub-conscious. Take a close look at Megyn Kelly; she is Sarah Palin mean if you look at or in her eyes, so she is probably projecting.
I look out the window - what do I see
I see a golden calf pointing - back at me ~J.R. Robertson
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